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itself. I'm fairly sure that he organized the 1976 Canada Cup as well, and as some WHA players (e.g., Bobby Hull) played in that series for Canada, it definitely was not an "NHL" tournament. Although I'm pretty sure that all
Canadian players in subsequent tournaments were NHL players (except Eric Lindros in 1992), that does not mean that the tournaments were organized by the NHL and, in fact, I'm fairly sure that the NHLPA, not the NHL, organized them (for evidence of the distinction between the NHL and the NHLPA, you need look no further than the 2004-05 NHL lockout). Perhaps I'm splitting hairs, but it is evident that these tournaments were not "NHL" by virtue of the inclusion of non-NHL players from time to time. It is certainly not true that all players from all competing teams at any of these tournaments were NHL players and, in fact, it is safe to say that many players from non-North American teams have not been NHL players.
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showed who won in professional competitions, as they were unable to use their best players in most World
Championships tournaments. (I see the fact that the individual WC years and its winners aren't listed in its section, despite some NHL players have played in most of those tournaments since 1976 as sort of an example of this. The current inclusion criteria don't say 'all NHL players needs to be able to attend', but 'NHL players attended', which in theory could apply to any exhibition game with a single NHL player participating.) In that regard, the Best of Best page would satisfy the need, and also be easier to manage, with better defined inclusion and exclusion criterias.
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professional championships is debatable, I suppose, but it is the reality that those tournaments were widely considered to effectively determine the true "world champion" (professional or other) in the same way that the World Cup of
Football (Soccer, for us North Americans) determines the same for that sport.
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This whole article is quite biased. I tried to create some neutrality to it, but might make more sense to remove it completely and possibly replace with another article about international ice hockey tournaments with professional players. Now the name refers mainly to the World
Championships arranged
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I suggest we rename it to something like "International ice hockey tournaments featuring NHL players" and clean it up (it does need a good cleaning), or simply delete it. I can take it upon myself to rework the article (I have some good ideas of how), but I want to be sure that we're all on the same
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I like the idea of merging with Best of Best. I don't mind a NHL-player games listing as such, though that means we'd have to add all those exhibition games discussed below under Very
Incomplete. That said, I've always perceived this page as a listing of tournaments that North American people felt
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It is true that the Summit Series, Canada Cups and World Cups are not technically "Professional ice hockey world championships". At the same time, the IIHF World
Championships should not be construed as such either, as those tournaments were established in Europe by Europeans to coincide with the
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I would, however, definitely NOT consider any series which pitted only Canada against the Soviet Union (e.g., the Summit Series in 1972) to determine the "world champion", if only because of the limited entrants. The 1974 "Summit Series" pitted the touring Soviet squad against the best which the
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Incidentally, it is not true that the NHL arranged the tournaments identified in the lists in the article. I have already above discredited the 1974 "Summit Series" from being an "NHL" series. The 1972 "Summit Series" was arranged by then-NHLPA boss Alan
Eagleson, but not by or for the league
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This page was seriously debated as far back as 3 years ago (see above). It has been improved slightly, but I don't feel the gathered listings motivate a page of its own. It's a mix of international tournaments between countries allowing NHL players and NHL players/teams playing against other
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explaining that the inclusion of the most eilte NHL and other professional players in international play is a recent and still not universal. I would have done it already by the title "best-on-best" I've only heard in a few places, and I can't find a good enough source for it. The concept
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article? I suppose, that the article should be renamed to something like "International tournaments with professional players" and the first sentence about "NHL arrangement" should be adjusted to reflect your view (I agree with most of your points). How these issues are dealt in Wiki? As I
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Until the Nagano
Olympics in 1998, the only tournaments which consistently pitted the top professional players (and, therefore, the top players in the world) against one another on an international level were the Canada Cups and the World Cup. Whether that makes those tournaments de facto
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Personally I find this list fine, fair isn't an issue. All a list requires in order to be a valid list on wikipedia is be a defined criteria and to be notable. The criteria is clearly that NHL players had to be participants and that it had to be international. The fact that all of these
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Since NHL players are usually unable to play in international tournaments because the NHL season is very long, and the NHL doesn't go in for breaks for outside competitions, NHL players don't usually appear in international competitions. That in itself brings reason to why this list
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This is a list article, so ofcourse you would find the details of the competitions in other articles. I hardly see that as a point for deletion, otherwise you'd think lists were not allowed on
Knowledge or something. This is a list afterall, not a specific competition article.
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IT might have been better if you just had renamed this article, and rewrote it, since it's a partial rewrite anyways, and an extensive edit history helps to avoid deletion, and this article has been renamed many times already. (It wasn't originally called a "list", IIRC)
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For the tournaments to be considered professional the players have to be either compensated or they have to play hockey as a profession. In either case NHL players aren't the only professional hockey players. These tournaments cannot be considered
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inferior WHA league had to offer, so it definitely can be considered neither an "NHL" tournament nor a "professional ice hockey world championship" by any measure. I absolutely disagree with its inclusion in this list under any circumstances.
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It just duplicates the main pages for each tournament. Also it needs a better explanation of what the concept of "best-on-best" is. As well it does a poor job differniating "club" play (Super Series) from national team play (the rest).
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championships either because most of them are invitational, and are not organised and goverened by a multi-national federation (such as the IIHF). Most of the mentioned events weren't arranged by the NHL either, so that too is erronious.
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understand, when all people here (on the talk page) agree the article changed enough to become neutral, NPOV tag can be removed (so far at least I don't think it's neutral in particular due to its controversary-in-my-opinion name).
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I agree. I also think, that your point of view basically reflects ones of anon users who posted under "Indeed" and "Addendum" sections. Admin is not needed here. As I know Wiki policy, if we want to rename the article, we should
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countries and/or other teams. The focus on NHL-players (as opposed to generally professional players, for instance not considering WHL-players a reason of inclusion) strikes me as unfair, despite it being a prominent league.
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Does the fact that the "neutrality" of this article is in dispute (although I think it's more the accuracy than the neutrality which is in dispute) not make the statistics presented in other pages which refer here (e.g.,
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If anyone cannot, then it's POV of the creator of this article. My POV is that if all professionals were welcome to play since 1977 in WC and
Olympics, then these events should be considered professional since then: if
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Well, how about the earlier championships and games? Especially before World War II? Olympics 1920 through 1936 and World Championships 1930 through 1939? It could be noteworthy because NHL was founded already 1917.
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on WikiPedia. It should be no different for the NHL or NHLPA. A list of competitions sanctioned or whatever by them is no less encyclopedic than others. The IIHF list was turned into a template and a category.
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by the International Ice Hockey Federation (IIHF) since the 70's, but the article itself is about tournaments arranged by the NHL (which is only a single professional league, even if dominant as such).
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shows a lot more games. I personally think the listing would get crowded with all that information here, but if we don't want it added we need to figure out some inclusion/exclusion criterias.
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Now that I think of it, "International ice hockey competitions featuring NHL players" is probably a more suited name, as not all are tournaments. I'll start working on it after breakfast. --
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Club championships is the top professional teams playing for an international cup. Like the Euro Cup in soccer I believe. Or the Spengler cup in hockey which isn't truely international. -
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The Super Series summary chart needs to have each NHL team's name included, not simply the generic "NHL". I'll start looking these up, but if anyone already knows, please go ahead.
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games/tournaments can easily be sourced passes the notability criteria. It could probably have some better prose added into the article but thats not a reason to repurpose the list. -
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was created, how the NHL defeated the WHA in the 1970s and gutted the Eastern Euopean leagues in the 1990s, and why the KHL was created. A geopolical history of hockey, perhaps.--
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But the NHL players were professional already then, and both the IOC and IIHF were vehemently opposed to accepting (nominally) professional players in their competitions.
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If that's the case then we could copy the the content I wrote to this page, and then delete my new page, and rename this page to the new title. Does that make sense?--
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Do you think,that "inaccuracy" prevails over "non-neutrality" here? If you do, then may be it'd be better to replace NPOV tag with one of the tags mentioned in
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If you think, that it's not suitable here, then remove it, update Knowledge on your will. Anyway, this info is present on the page about the Soviet team.
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This jumble can be resolved by refocusing the article on international competitions done under the auspices or organized by the NHL and/or NHLPA.
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Yup like that. Or the top team from all the major hockey playing leagues facing off against each other sort of like the memorial cup. -
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end of the European hockey season. In reality, there never have been any tournaments which are definitive professional championships.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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Is the fact that the NHL/NHLPA hosted it as notable as the fact that it is described as "best-on-best"? I tend to think not. --
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There's still a need for an article on competitions done by the NHL/NHLPA, that this list also serves as the article for...
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
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In 1998, 2002, 2006 and 2010 the NHL has had a break in the season to allow its players to participate in the Olympics.
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unfortunately. It would be hard to find enough info that could be sourced for an article like that which wouldn't be a
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There, I've done most of the reworking and renaming, but I have to head out now. I'll brush it up later tonight. --
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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Since 1976, there has been no limit to how many NHL players countries can send to the IIHF World Championships
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Can anyone cite sources (official, if possible), where these and only these championships can be considered
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I thought there was an Ice Hockey World championship. The World Championships held anually in April/May.
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That could work. I'm posting notices on a few WikiProjects to get more input, than just the three of us.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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I think we need an article explaining why ice hockey lacks a real world club championship, and why the
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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There have been a lot more international games played by the NHL, most of them exhibition games.
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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All information available (and more detail) can be found on the respective tournament pages.
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undoubedly exists, we just need to determine the proper name and agree on the decription.--
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https://web.archive.org/web/20050305133718/http://www.hhof.com/html/GamesSummarySS.shtml
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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What should really happen is we should delete this list and instead an article called
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the page to the name proposed by you. The page with this name will remain (it will be
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Indeed there are more games, and like Alaney2k write in the discussion you link to,
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I do believe the 1974 Summit Series was played with WHA players, not NHL players --
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Sorry for my long-windedness. Hockey is my passion. Let the lockout end!
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once I found intances of the NHL, NHLPA, and IIHF using the phrase. --
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List of international ice hockey competitions featuring NHL players
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http://en.wikipedia.org/Canadian_national_men%27s_hockey_team
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Do ya'll mean something like, the Stanley Cup champs (NHL)
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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to participate (due to schedule etc.) it's up to them.
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I went ahead and added an "international" section to
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List-Class United States articles of Low-importance
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1290:Categories
1277:Report bug
530:redirected
109:Ice Hockey
100:ice hockey
59:Ice Hockey
30:List-class
1260:this tool
1253:this tool
1164:Elsquared
1266:Cheers.—
1028:contribs
930:issue. -
928:WP:SYNTH
912:contribs
825:contribs
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713:contribs
653:Kevlar67
605:Kevlar67
446:Addendum
400:Sources?
1190:my edit
992:Djsasso
978:GoodDay
960:Djsasso
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932:Djsasso
880:Djsasso
678:exists.
637:creator
437:Agree.
414:certain
381:on the
229:on the
1080:Lejman
1063:Jmj713
1044:Jmj713
1019:Kevlar
974:facing
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655:) and
623:Lejman
428:Indeed
347:Alerts
202:Canada
193:Canada
143:Canada
36:scale.
924:WP:OR
645:Sarke
641:Cmapm
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556:Sarke
547:Sarke
538:Cmapm
513:Sarke
501:world
485:Cmapm
439:Cmapm
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148:Sport
1168:talk
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1204:to
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221:Low
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