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value of primogeniture. His views have also been abused by modern revisionists; for instance, even though
Montesquieu was ahead of his time as an ardent opponent of slavery, he has been quoted out of context in attempts to show he supported it. However, in The Spirit of the Laws he writes "The state of Slavery in its own nature is bad" In the same work, however, he said "If I had to defend the right we had of making Negroes slaves, here is what I would say...Those concerned are black from head to toe, and they have such flat noses that it is almost impossible to feel sorry for them (Part 3, Chapter 5, "The Spirit of the Laws")."
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980:. However, like many of his generation, Montesquieu also held a number of views that might today be judged controversial. While he endorsed the idea that a woman could head a government, he held that she could not be effective as the head of a family. He also firmly accepted the role of a hereditary aristocracy and the value of
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If any
Wikipedian objects to the brief summary statement I've left in the article, go to my talk page, and we'll work on an article tied to this one. Something like 'Montesquie controversies'. As far as I can find, this particular abuse of quotations started with Eduardo Galeano, a political writer
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Like many of his generation, Montesquieu held a number of views that might today be judged controversial. While he endorsed the idea that a woman could head a government, he held that she could not be effective as the head of a family. He firmly accepted the role of a hereditary aristocracy and the
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Harvester, C de M had a number of interesting, and a few peculiar views. I won't object to re-inserting climate since it is accurate, but it would be nicer if we had summaries of some topics to which he applied more time and effort. Religion, civil compared to criminal law, the role of aristocracy,
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In the section on the Trias
Politica a grand mistake is being made. When it speaks of the 3 classes in French society the quote names this as 'Trias Politica', but the latter is a completely different concept than the 3 different 'Estats' or Estates. I am not as advanced in this subject to want to
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Fair cop. Thankfully this now seems to have been put to bed. I'm still mildly troubled by the focus given to it both here and especially on
Wikiquote over the considerably more significant elements of Montesquieu's political theory (like the principles upon which the entire modern western model of
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This article for some reason has been the target of unusual vandalism, essentially, different IP based users inserting difficult to detect false information. As such, any new information that is suspect will be reverted unless it is backed up with sources. Indeed, the most recent vandalism has him
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Unfortunately, this statement belies the true nature of the contention. While
Montesquieu certainly abdicated slavery reform in some quotes, he also allowed for circumstances under which slavery was acceptable (see Spirit of the Laws, Book XV, Ch 7). Montesquieu has surely been the subject of
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been ridiculed, and you removed my entries on that particular thing, making formulations that seem to say that "he really didn't mean that, he was just being patriotic". I'm putting parts of it back in, though I do agree on your view that his stance on slavery has been incorrectly portrayed.
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This should remove confusion, easily allow users to read more on the subject should they wish, and have the bonus effect of reducing the proportion of the page devoted to the subject, which currently distracts from his main political ideas discussed in the two paragraphs preceding.
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Two things: The use of Trias
Politica is problematic, since the article suggests that it is principally the society which is separated, and not the powers. M. never actually wrote down the word "separation of powers", he spoke of equilibrium of powers, etcetera.
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Yeah, someone just got it--funny, I was randomly reading about vandalism on
Knowledge while taking a break from studying the philosophers. I don't dare change it myself, but if someone could be so kind and remove the idiots handy-work I'd be so grateful. CF
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I'm not sure if this is notable enough for the story, or if it is true, but I just stumbled across a site that said
Montesquieu was the first to indentify the Cabernet Sauvignon grape, so I thought I'd put that out there on this talk page. The link is
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I'm not going to edit the article to remove misleading material. The section present now deals with slavery is a flat misstatement, although through clever manipulation the quotes partly hold up. Yes, he wrote those words about Negro slavery.
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Hence as a proposed solution: since
Wikiquote now includes a full excerpt of the relevant section (De l'Esprit des Lois XV Ch. 5), how about simply including a link to that instead, so users can read what he wrote and decide for themselves?
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This winery ad surely isn't a reliable source (I think it was once in the article but was removed), but it states that M is 'credited by many' with the discovery so you may be able to discover a better source. Enjoy your research!
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https://web.archive.org/web/20130928071427/http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=MonLaws.xml&images=images%2Fmodeng&data=%2Ftexts%2Fenglish%2Fmodeng%2Fparsed&tag=public&part=137&division=div2
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Montesquieu was a huge
Enlightenment thinker, and remains one of the most influential thinkers in all of history. I would think that there could be more said about him in this article: namely, it needs more on his
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Slavery, properly so called, is the establishment of a right which gives to one man such a power over another as renders him absolute master of his life and fortune. The state of slavery is in its own nature
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This looks like the work of two different people, and as it currently stands is confusing (and has too many howevers). At any rate, I just read it for the first time, and it confused (and surprised) me.
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Looking through the article history, it appears this has been a source of ongoing dispute, and any edits made by one "camp" are likely to be swiftly reverted or redone by the opposing camp.
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misquotation, but to state that he advocated 100% abolition of slavery would require some form of reference and completely ignoring at least one full passage in the Spirit of the Laws.
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http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=MonLaws.xml&images=images%2Fmodeng&data=%2Ftexts%2Fenglish%2Fmodeng%2Fparsed&tag=public&part=137&division=div2
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Google Books also. Seems a no-brainer for change unless someone can evidence a fundamental historic error (in which case both spellings might be included, but not otherwise, IMO).
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commerce, money, etc. that he devoted more time and reason to. You might consider creating a paragraph on agriculture and its relation to the law. Thanks for fixing my typos :-),
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traveling throughout all of Europe in a single year .. which seems unlikely in a time when the horse was the fastest mode of transportation and winter travel was not common. --
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The text in this topic was added w/o a cite by Madman91 in April 9, 2006. Looks like it needs a reliable source (and most of those are the latter ;-)
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Under the heading "Political views" (I think I would capitalize the "V" in "views" for stylistic reasons), in the second paragraph is written--
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Which Enlightenment? He certainly doesn't seem to be from the French Enlightenment. Is he a member of the Anglo-Irish Enlightenment?
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according to Stbalbach's reasoning, although mention should be made in the article's introduction that he is commonly referred to as
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and caused a very long-lasting debate among intellectuals at the time, so it really needs elaboration, too...
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In later arguments he gives his reasoning against the legitimacy of black slavery. He first list some stated
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I agree we need more detailed info on Montesquieu's political views. However the climate theory was
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government rests) but the way to address that I think would be to expand the paragraphs preceding.
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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is the primary usage, and the usual English form. Minimising use of redirects is a good thing.
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Were I to vindicate our right to make slaves of the negroes, these should be my arguments:
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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Montesquieu was somewhat ahead of his time in advocating the abolition of slavery in
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Hey, let's reword "true, source-able" statement, to fit the way we want it to read.
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Montesquieu now redirects here. It used to, but someone made a mistake. Fixed. --
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Something has gone wrong with the first paragraph! i have no idea how to fix it
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The trip throughout Europe took three years according to the German version
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To put them in context, that part of his book starts with a statement that
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Who wrote classes ? The powers should be separated. Why among classes ?
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that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved.
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Watching as History is being written in the eye of those writing it.
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Currently, the final paragraph of the Political Views section reads:
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It needs a reliable source. google seems to think it's the latter.
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RE: Including specific pointer to slavery section of quotations
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LouI, it would be nice if you could elaborate on Montesquieu's
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In the spirit of compromise I suggest the following revision:
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How about, just citing the source as Montesquieu said it?
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Including specific pointer to slavery section of quotations
649:. By convention bibliography articles use the full name. --
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Um, so write it! That's how things get done around here.
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because people type in Montesquieu to find this page. --
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http://www.livres-et-ebooks.fr/auteur/Montesquieu-2214/
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486:. Which I think deserves its own article. This theory
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926:98.203.36.3
838:—Preceding
777:Stefán Ingi
687:Montesquieu
663:Montesquieu
602:common name
540:—Preceding
329:Montesquieu
209:Montesquieu
79:Montesquieu
36:This is an
978:contextomy
757:Discussion
720:Gryffindor
420:Report bug
310:Report bug
190:Report bug
1037:Abclemons
771:requested
746:Stbalbach
715:de Gaulle
707:Churchill
651:Stbalbach
583:Akradecki
531:Stbalbach
517:Harvester
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403:this tool
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293:this tool
286:this tool
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61:Archive 1
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1089:contribs
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897:Tedickey
864:Tedickey
840:unsigned
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733:DemonHog
554:contribs
542:unsigned
469:Thanks,
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299:Cheers.—
179:Cheers.—
1126:Wikiain
810:Classes
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729:Support
631:Support
618:Support
450:reasons
430:Slavery
333:my edit
213:my edit
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1054:paxman
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816:Ericd
709:, or
616:Add *
598:WP:RM
501:Lou I
471:Lou I
16:<
1130:talk
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