622:"I'm deeply concerned that you totally re-wrote, utterly pruned and vandalized an article that has taken me 5 years to write and do research on. I invested tremendous energy, and especially research in writing 99% of the article I created (Golden Team). All of the source material are listed on the bottom of the article. One day I went to do some minor edits and the entire article was gutted, you completely erased about 70-80% of my writing. This article was an excersize not only in sports journalism and history but a modern investigative exposition into 1950s socialist sport. I'm not sure what the admins will say about this. Expect me to incorporate some ideas from your edits, but also expect the entire article reverted to its original form. Please limit yourself to doing responsible editing and correction not broadsweeping vandalism. Thanks a bundle.Ā :)" It seems that we have the same user with multiple userids treating this article as a "modern investigative exposition into 1950s socialist sport"... and here's me thinking it was a KnowledgeĀ :)
38:
127:" It is credited with directly leading to a kind of a future tense football that opened a new chapter for tactical calculus and positional roles in the game that would render understood contemporary concepts a game of other times; sculpting a precusor to the "Total Football" genre that later the Netherlands football scene cottoned to, and its adoption and definite perfection by succeeding Brazilian teams."
365:
507:
N. Ireland and
Ireland - Hungary were their first non-British or Irish defeat. I hope the edits help a little with the clarity. It would be great to get the article on this wonderful team to C or B class at least. There is a lot of good stuff in this article and it would be a lot more readable with a little more cosmetic work.
563:
Although your contributions are appreciated, your efforts to make my article adhere to a more concise language has nearly ruined my article that has taken my years to write. You have removed approximately 40% of facts and data after your edits and have altered the nature and style of my work. I am
506:
as much as possible, deleting clauses and sentences that repeat material already stated and generally trying to tighten up, 'wikify' and clarify things. I also deleted the reference to the 'maiden defeat' of
England, since the English had already been beaten on numerous occasions by Wales, Scotland,
431:
Please don't take it as a personal cricticism, Dljn. I fully understand that your intentions are positive. All that we are suggesting is that the original contained plenty of useful data which can be salvaged and used to create a better article. (Btw, we all have experiences of "our" articles being
661:
This article is still in the process of being fully written, and am in the midst of writing the World Cup Final of 1954. I still have to acquire the neccessary data and literature on the game before I resume its writing and am waiting on the arrival of a book. I have been the principal author to
595:
too long, and it would generally benefit from some drastic pruning all round. This is in no way to minimise the obvious sterling efforts that have already been made. I'd love to read this article in its entirety, but as things stand its overwhelming, and I think others coming to it with 'new eyes'
296:
Sorry to say this but if I have to choose one of the two versions, I'll certainly go for the old one. The current one says very little about the team except some statistics. An article of this sort should certainly say something about the work of Gustav Sebes or the concept of (Hidegkuti as) the
576:
I hadn't intended to 'ruin' it and wikipedia is a collaborative process. Numerous editors had suggested a complete rewrite of the article was necessary and the article itself has been tagged to this effect. I was careful to delete only information that I considered repetitive and avoid deleting
209:
I think that this article would be better named "Magical
Magyars" rather than "Golden Team" because "Golden Team" is a term that could be used about legendary teams from other countries, generations and sports, whilst Magical Magyars is a term specific to the 1950-55 Hungarian National Football
748:
I hope no-one minds if I have done some judicious pruning of the article, which I thought was verbose and definitely not neutral in tone. I have received one comment in private saying that my edits are vandalism (!) and that someone intends to revert at least 60-70% of my edits back in... Any
320:
I'd agree with Tintin. I do realize the old version needed work, but there was valid, important information that should have been kept and improved. If we can recover the information, I will appoint myself to help bringing it to
Knowledge standards. I just happen to think that badly written
463:
The process for changing the name of this article is a "request for move process" but the name is not something random you think of that minute it should have some reasoning behind it. The two previous names of the article were the current "Golden Team" and the
Hungarian translation for it
163:
since all the 30+ pictures have been removed by wikipedia, the entire article may be deleted. Not one picture I had posted when writing this article remains of this team and its competitive matches. As the original writer, it's fine then to remove the article as well, thank you.
179:) that I found the most important in the whole article and being that it was written poorly by me, Knowledge can and should delete the whole article. I wished to show the players and its games on the article, without those images the article is not the same. Please delete
300:
On the other hand, the old one could have done with a serious copyedit. The language often is too flowery, messy or complex (see the description of Puscas famous goal in 1953 or the first goal v Brazil in 1954) or overelaborate (was there a need to allocate
416:
If the original was better why was the above added. Even the above editors, while supporting the original, point out serious faults in it. Of course this article can still be improved further, but this is a massive improvement on the previous version.
641:
The article as it stands (9/7/2010) ends rather abruptly with the 1954 loss to W. Germany. Can anyone supply a section on the team's performances after the World Cup final and the circumstances in which the side broke up after the uprising? Thanks.
763:
Update 12Feb2011: a large number of the edits I made were rolled back and replaced with the verbage and peacock phrasing that the original aritcle suffered from. Can someone intervene? I do not want this turning into 'edit-rollback-edit' war...
95:
I have no idea where this text comes from and frankly do not care about the article but
Knowledge should stick with some standards and not sounds as propaganda to excite fans and attract more advertisement. Thanks for understanding.
220:
This is true. The article being name the "Golden Team" is completely illogical since many nations use the term to refer to their "Golden Teams." "Magnificent
Magyars," "Magical Magyars," or "Aranycsapat" would be a better
733:
While this article may still be a work in progress, it is not too early to start cleaning up the prose and nailing down some of the references. I will take a stab at doing that in a few days when I have more time.
105:
Pavel
Vozenilek, this article is kept to the highest standards according to football pundits and experts who have due diligence in research and "who actually" have homework on national teams from the past.
110:
Well, I'd consider the team (being one of the more famous national teams) deserves the page. I just wonder about the length of the article (maybe a tad long for what should fit into an encyclopedia).
139:"The gorgeous arch of Bozsik's ball was true and Kocsis outleap both of his markers and with his head diagonally netted a one out of a hundred goal from 10-yards out, and Brazil was flummoxed 0-2."
564:
the main author of this article and am asking you to please stop editing this article immediately. I'll incorporate some of your style into the eventual rollback. Thank you for your attention.
577:
factual material, though I realise this may seem like a subjective judgement. In any case, I'm sorry to have upset you in any way and I realise you obviously put a lot of work into this. Thanks.
136:
not just a 'remarkable record', but 'inconceivably so' and a 'ledger' no less. I've noticed this on
Football related articles: they read like a breathless fanzine. Please just the facts.
281:
With the greatest of respect, you abandoned the article (see comments above). It was very badly written and very long and needed major work. I have improved article considerably.
502:
In view of the concerns already raised about the readability of this article, I've copy edited the introductory paragraph, eliminating unnecessary adjectives, implementing
305:
paragraphs for the elo ratingsĀ ?). A copyedit to simplify the language and trimming would have been the better option than deletion of whole sections.
483:
There is no way that this article in its present form can be classified as "B" - it is so riddled with hyperbole as to be virtually unreadable.
247:
321:
information is better than no information. Just bring it here to the talk page so we can all work on it. It should be a good article this one. --
795:
792:
786:
259:
689:? I hadn't realised. Great to hear that some further sections are on the way, and I look forward to seeing the final version. Good luck!
798:
810:
801:
539:
I had some time on my hands today so I also copy-edited the first three main sections of the article in a similar way to the intro.
401:
383:
375:
558:
Response to OliverTwist88 cross-posted from ANB's personal page (comments are of more practial use in developing discussion here)
789:
488:
191:
Although the article needs improving, I think it should be kept. This team was legendary and they deserve an article.
591:
This article is far from 'ruined' by recent edits; in fact it still suffers greatly from being overdone. The lead is
45:
524:
http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Golden_Team&action=historysubmit&diff=372582378&oldid=372335601
601:
255:
130:
Long sentences in a very inelegant and wordy style. It's almost impossible to read or understand much of it:
667:
569:
814:
484:
796:
http://www.footballfairplay.com/2010/10/germany%C2%B4s-1954-world-cup-winners-%C2%B4were-doped%C2%B4.html
793:
http://www.footballfairplay.com/2010/10/germany%C2%B4s-1954-world-cup-winners-%C2%B4were-doped%C2%B4.html
787:
http://www.footballfairplay.com/2010/10/germany%C2%B4s-1954-world-cup-winners-%C2%B4were-doped%C2%B4.html
111:
335:
806:
799:
http://www.newstime.co.za/Sport/Study_claims_Germany%E2%80%99%E2%80%99s_1954_cup_winners_doped/13704/
673:
469:
437:
348:
310:
225:
97:
802:
http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/worldcup/story/Study-1954-World-Cup-champions-Germany-were-doped
706:
686:
597:
251:
165:
663:
565:
146:
710:
615:
211:
23:
790:
http://www.cbssports.com/soccer/story/14192143/study-german-1954-world-cup-winners-were-doped
818:
769:
754:
718:
627:
150:
54:
17:
465:
433:
339:
306:
222:
453:
322:
244:
article Djln, and I understand that you took a few a days to completely wreck it Djln.
739:
694:
647:
582:
544:
530:
512:
124:
I agree with Pavel. Maybe the writers are knowledgeable but it is horribly written:
82:
773:
765:
758:
750:
743:
722:
714:
713:
judging by the consistency of comments relating to anyone editing "their" work.
698:
677:
651:
631:
623:
605:
586:
548:
534:
516:
492:
473:
441:
425:
352:
325:
314:
289:
263:
241:
229:
214:
199:
153:
114:
100:
85:
53:
If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
175:
since
Knowledge had deleted all the player and game images from the article (
422:
418:
286:
282:
196:
192:
735:
690:
662:
his article since Dec. 2005 who hopes to conclude this article shortly.
643:
578:
540:
526:
508:
145:
Maybe it was written by a non-native English speaker or translated from
81:
In fact, "Aranycsapat" should not be written in separate words. --
503:
358:
32:
180:
176:
142:
Gorgeous?? Arch?? One-out-of-hundred?? (POV) Flummoxed??
523:
133:"...with a ledger that is inconceivably remarkable..."
452:
phrase "a 7-1 hammering in" seems to be pov. pl check.
614:I have received the following comment in chat from
91:
Greates finest ever among all, starting new era ...
779:Study: Germany 1954 World Cup winners 'were doped'
432:edited out of recognition by other editorsĀ !).
8:
276:Response to message posted at personal page
402:Learn how and when to remove this message
183:from the Knowledge archives. Thank you.
749:thoughts on whether I have done wrong?
171:Feel Free to delete Aranycsapat article
783:According to German olympic committee
51:Do not edit the contents of this page.
7:
657:Post-1954 (World Cup Final of 1954)
181:http://en.wikipedia.org/Golden_Team
177:http://en.wikipedia.org/Golden_Team
374:tone or style may not reflect the
31:
705:OliverTwist88 also appears to be
384:guide to writing better articles
363:
36:
24:Talk:Magical Magyars/Archive 1
1:
774:10:49, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
759:17:25, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
723:17:32, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
632:17:29, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
474:10:23, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
297:"withdrawn centre-forward".
101:06:09, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
86:09:04, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
819:16:29, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
442:14:56, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
426:13:29, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
353:05:07, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
326:00:26, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
315:15:35, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
290:14:16, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
264:05:36, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
230:18:34, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
215:21:24, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
744:11:57, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
685:Are you the same person as
200:10:40, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
835:
154:20:13, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
115:21:45, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
778:
699:12:48, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
493:04:44, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
678:23:36, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
652:18:27, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
606:22:20, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
587:21:41, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
549:18:11, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
535:14:03, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
522:Revisions viewable here
517:14:02, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
464:"Aranycsapat". Discuss.
596:would feel similarly.
240:I put months into the
159:article can be removed
250:comment was added by
49:of past discussions.
271:To Galloping Major
809:comment added by
570:OliverTwist88talk
485:Daemonic Kangaroo
412:
411:
404:
378:used on Knowledge
376:encyclopedic tone
267:
74:
73:
61:
60:
55:current talk page
22:(Redirected from
826:
821:
681:
670:) 9 July 2010.
618:re.recent edits:
407:
400:
396:
393:
387:
386:for suggestions.
382:See Knowledge's
367:
366:
359:
336:Golden Team/temp
245:
120:Horribly Written
70:
63:
62:
40:
39:
33:
27:
18:Talk:Golden Team
834:
833:
829:
828:
827:
825:
824:
823:
804:
781:
731:
671:
659:
639:
572:) July 09 2010
500:
481:
461:
450:
408:
397:
391:
388:
381:
372:This article's
368:
364:
246:āThe preceding
238:
207:
189:
173:
161:
122:
98:Pavel Vozenilek
93:
79:
66:
37:
29:
28:
21:
20:
12:
11:
5:
832:
830:
780:
777:
730:
727:
726:
725:
707:Gallopingmajor
702:
701:
687:Gallopingmajor
676:comment added
658:
655:
638:
635:
620:
619:
611:
610:
609:
608:
598:RashersTierney
561:
560:
554:
553:
552:
551:
499:
496:
480:
477:
460:
457:
449:
446:
445:
444:
414:
413:
410:
409:
371:
369:
362:
345:
344:
343:
342:
329:
328:
295:
293:
292:
273:
272:
252:Gallopingmajor
237:
234:
233:
232:
206:
203:
188:
185:
172:
169:
166:Gallopingmajor
160:
157:
121:
118:
109:
92:
89:
78:
75:
72:
71:
59:
58:
41:
30:
15:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
831:
822:
820:
816:
812:
808:
803:
800:
797:
794:
791:
788:
784:
776:
775:
771:
767:
761:
760:
756:
752:
746:
745:
741:
737:
728:
724:
720:
716:
712:
708:
704:
703:
700:
696:
692:
688:
684:
683:
682:
679:
675:
669:
665:
664:OliverTwist88
656:
654:
653:
649:
645:
636:
634:
633:
629:
625:
617:
613:
612:
607:
603:
599:
594:
590:
589:
588:
584:
580:
575:
574:
573:
571:
567:
566:OliverTwist88
559:
556:
555:
550:
546:
542:
538:
537:
536:
532:
528:
525:
521:
520:
519:
518:
514:
510:
505:
497:
495:
494:
490:
486:
478:
476:
475:
471:
467:
458:
456:
455:
447:
443:
439:
435:
430:
429:
428:
427:
424:
420:
406:
403:
395:
392:December 2007
385:
379:
377:
370:
361:
360:
357:
356:
355:
354:
350:
341:
337:
334:Copied it to
333:
332:
331:
330:
327:
324:
319:
318:
317:
316:
312:
308:
304:
298:
291:
288:
284:
280:
279:
278:
277:
270:
269:
268:
265:
261:
257:
253:
249:
243:
235:
231:
227:
223:
219:
218:
217:
216:
213:
204:
202:
201:
198:
194:
186:
184:
182:
178:
170:
168:
167:
158:
156:
155:
152:
148:
143:
140:
137:
134:
131:
128:
125:
119:
117:
116:
113:
107:
103:
102:
99:
90:
88:
87:
84:
76:
69:
65:
64:
56:
52:
48:
47:
42:
35:
34:
25:
19:
811:84.0.114.153
785:
782:
762:
747:
732:
711:GrandMariner
660:
640:
621:
616:GrandMariner
592:
562:
557:
501:
482:
462:
451:
415:
398:
389:
373:
346:
302:
299:
294:
275:
274:
239:
212:Teabag Yokel
208:
190:
187:Keep Article
174:
162:
144:
141:
138:
135:
132:
129:
126:
123:
112:Gian Giorgis
108:
104:
94:
80:
67:
50:
44:
805:āPreceding
672:āPreceding
242:Golden Team
151:Ben davison
77:Aranycsapat
43:This is an
736:Tim Pierce
466:Hobartimus
729:Rewriting
637:Post-1954
498:New Edits
479:"B" class
454:Yousaf465
323:ChaChaFut
147:Hungarian
68:ArchiveĀ 1
807:unsigned
448:Npov tag
260:contribs
248:unsigned
236:Copyedit
221:title.--
83:Biziclop
674:undated
46:archive
766:Coopuk
751:Coopuk
715:Coopuk
624:Coopuk
434:Tintin
340:Tintin
307:Tintin
205:Naming
210:Team.
16:<
815:talk
770:talk
755:talk
740:talk
719:talk
709:and
695:talk
668:talk
648:talk
628:talk
602:talk
583:talk
545:talk
531:talk
513:talk
504:NPOV
489:talk
470:talk
438:talk
423:Djln
419:Djln
349:talk
311:talk
287:Djln
283:Djln
256:talk
226:talk
197:Djln
193:Djln
691:ANB
644:ANB
593:way
579:ANB
541:ANB
527:ANB
509:ANB
459:RFM
303:two
817:)
772:)
757:)
742:)
721:)
697:)
650:)
630:)
604:)
585:)
547:)
533:)
515:)
491:)
472:)
440:)
421:--
351:)
338:.
313:)
285:--
262:)
258:ā¢
228:)
195:--
149:.
813:(
768:(
753:(
738:(
717:(
693:(
680:.
666:(
646:(
626:(
600:(
581:(
568:(
543:(
529:(
511:(
487:(
468:(
436:(
405:)
399:(
394:)
390:(
380:.
347:(
309:(
266:.
254:(
224:(
57:.
26:)
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.