1018:", one of which is -ka, turning the whole precedent sentence into a question, so since MS Windows gives me trouble with filenames with question marks in them, I just use "ka" as if it were a question mark, tagging it onto something, like "Who's he ka", making a very excellent filename. But other suffixes have names for their types, which somebody or other really ought to look into, perhaps gaining a Japanese pen-pal in the bargain. What kind of suffix is -ka, as it's used here, and the wording is no good, something like "used in referring to" or "implying" such and such. Just give its meaning! They're all very simple concepts, once you "get" them. Such as types of people. -za means something, -ya means a few things (making "a shop which sells it", I think, and other things), -ka means things, -teki turns nouns into adjectives, or vice versa, etc. There are -maki, -yaki, -udon, for food preparation techniques, others for counting things, and so on. Find out what kind of suffix this -ka is, and you'll go a long way towards understanding and explaining it. -san, -sha, -kun, -sensei, -shi, maybe -bun and -ko, and so on ad infinitum, are all kinds of people! There's a name for that sort of suffix. I think the "
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indicated that the use of jargon is discouraged on
Knowledge and I agree that using -still uncommon- phrases or words from other languages creates the necessity for additional clarification in the text of articles. It looks like someone is now unilaterally changing all entries for mangaka in existing articles. In text and particularly in links and redirects to this article. Replacing all entries for Mangaka with manga artist. It seems to be done to influence redirect statistics in favour of change. Was consensus reached on the preferable terminology? If so, what is it?
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1574:. The following in an excerpt from the guidance given there regarding writing about People in the section of the same name: "For articles on directors, mangaka, seiyū (voice actors), etc., follow Knowledge:WikiProject Biography." This indicates to me that there is no guidance in the current Manual of Style that prohibits the use of the word Mangaka. A search in the Talk Page archives for the Manual of Style leads to the following previous discussions:
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couldn't possibly tackle, much use in everyday life, but I'm glad I know "panache", for instance, and a smattering of good words in many languages. Lots of them are Greek, Latin, or French, and you know them too, like "arena", "stadium", "theatre", "lucid", "vacuum", "station", "hotel", "zenith", etc. A foreign word or two won't bite you!
1566:. In this section of the Manual of Style it says, in part, "Foreign terms" "Foreign words should be used sparingly." underneath it says: "No common usage in English" with the explanation stating: "Use italics for phrases in other languages and for isolated foreign words that are not current in English." A search for the word
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1312:. However, I know that some individuals are going to argue that manga artists and manga authors are not the same. That's why I suggested a name which will cover both without leaving room for dispute. After all, this article is about all of those who create manga, not just those who draw it or those who write it. —
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and since the topic concerns editors from
Knowledge as a whole and not just the Anime and Manga project, and since the issues seem entwined to me, I've once again come to the conclusion that it is better to address the topics of usage and the potential name change of the Mangaka article together and
1541:
I've looked at the talk pages of the articles suggested above and while this naming issue has been raised in different places before, no consensus appears to have been reached elsewhere either. Not in MOS not in Use
English and not on this Mangaka article talk page. I'm sympathetic to those who have
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Don't tell me I stand alone against all of you! I'm all for learning a new word, and if it's a bit stylish, that's great. It's not that I don't get what you're aiming at, such as trying to learn a bit about India or yoga without being introduced into all sorts of Hindi and
Sanskrit words and names I
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The "anime" and "manga" comparison was for those who wished for translations. If you want explanations there is a problem there too; these are words not terms: they don't need explanations, they need definitions. To put definitions wherever they are mentioned would be unsuitable. Don't be lazy. Just
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Normally a version of a page that specifies the
Japanese side of things goes like this: "Voice acting" to "Voice acting in Japan", "Education" to "Education in Japan", et cetera. So logically..."Cartoonist" to "Cartoonists in Japan". It's not a separate thing, but rather, a page to talk about what
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An editor has suggested separating this discussion on the usage of the word
Mangaka from this talk page and to discuss it in stead on the Manga and Anime project talk page - but since input on the title of this article and a potential move was previously suggested there to be held here, per this
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I'll change every "mangaka" and "seiyuu" to "manga writer and illustrator" and "japanese voice actor" after you justify changing "manga" to "japanese styled comics" and "anime" to "japanese styled cartoons". I wouldn't argue that they're different because they're not. the words are mangaka and
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is the overriding principle here. Why use a foreign language term that isn't in common use in the
English language when we have a subtable English language term that is more easily understood by English language readers? But regardless of which equivalent English term is used, this article
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To call something affixed to the end of a
Japanese word a "suffix" is to demonstrate silly ignorance. There are both proper English and Japanese words for all of them. The commonest (a word I coin myself, and spellcheck doesn't complain, though spellcheck drives it up the wall!) are the
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Is mangaka in any
English dictionaries? What's up with most of the Japan related articles here using a foreign word when referring to someone who draws comics? Most normal people have no idea what it means, and having to click on it just to read the definition is a major inconvenience.
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Hello, I am considering adding a new section to the page titled "Becoming a
Mangaka". I know it is already addressed a little in the lead, but I feel that it should have its own section as interest in being a mangaka has risen. Here is the link to the sandbox containing the
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throughout Knowledge articles and regarding the change or retention of the title for this particular article. Given the example guidelines cited this seems to me the proper place to discuss this matter and reach a consensus prior to making any further changes.
699:" in articles here, yet these aren't acceptable words in the English lexicon. Samurai is a well-accepted loan word, "Mangaka" isn't even close to being one. Using this term all over wikipedia as if it were perfectly normal to do so is just bad practice.
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it's like to be a cartoonist in Japan. I know all the weaboos I've met loathe when "manga" are called "comics", but that's what they are. "Manga artist" works, but it's intentionally ignoring the word we already have for comic artists: "cartoonist".
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Not to mention that "mangaka" has NOT entered into the English language like other Japanese words have, like "manga", "anime", "sushi", "samurai" and "tsunami", which is why THOSE articles are known by their Japanese name. Furthermore, there is the
1495:. I know google searches are not the be all and end all but the term certainly appears to have penetrated into the English language. Manga creator does throw up more hits but all the top ones are for a specific game with the same name. --
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Inclined to oppose. The question raised here about whether an English term would use "artist" or "author" seems to point to the superiority of using the unambiguous terms "mangaka" and "manga creator"--but "manga creator" is a neologism.
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Mangaka is clearly an occupation, and {{WikiProject Occupations|class=Start|importance=mid}} is now added, but should this article have {{WikiProject Visual arts|class=Start}}, or individual Mangka articles have that WikiProject line?
924:) 00:05, 26 December 2009 (UTC) What if nobody ever borrowed "nude" from the French? Why, it's my favorite thing about French ladies, at least those who demonstrate, especially for me, in private! Why, I whip out my "peints de huile" (
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At first impression, I would agree with that. However, we must remember that there are mangaka who do not draw any art, but simply write the stories. So calling them "manga artist" would not be very fitting. This is why I'm favoring
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because it's a new loanword, don't act like you're being cheated into taking an extra couple of seconds from your wiki-time to learn a new word. It's good that you learned something new and exotic, don't you think?
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Naturalness: The last line explicitly states "Such a title usually conveys what the subject is actually called in English". Manga artist is the English term where Mangaka is the romanized version of the Japanese
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has not penetrated into the English language to be considered in common use. As such using the English term would make it far easier for a general reader to find and understand the title of the article.
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article; specifically that many other Japanese topics that do NOT cover Japanese Pop Culture have titles like "Baseball in Japan", "Religion in Japan", etc, and are NOT titled by their Japanese name. --
782:, on the other hand, have not found their way into common English usage, are not understood by most English readers, and the terms should be explained or defined whenever they are used in an article per
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have to show that it has become a common word in English. But A. di M.'s link shows that mangaka is not in common use and that at least manga artist is in much greater use by English language sources. —
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It is probably better if I add some links for the comment I left on December 4, 2014. As of today, January 25, 2014, no change has been made to the name of this article. It is still called Mangaka.
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What on earth are you talking about? Articles should be written to be understood, not to force the learning and adoption of foreign words into the English lexicon. On what authority do you say
959:", I request that this article be moved to something more appropriate, such as "Manga artists" or "Cartoonists in Japan". The reasoning for this request can be found in the Talk page in the
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seiyuu. Dictionaries will have it, eventually; but, for now, (especially since were on wikipedia) you should try the only up to date dictionary (wiktionary) for those words. I found them.
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the suffix, a connotation lost in French translation, which is a terrible disappointment, even if I revert to English to say so, because innuendo, an Italian word, is rarely lost on my
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are “new loanwords”? There is a distinction between manga and Western comics, and between anime and Western cartoons; not so between their respective artists and voice actors. —
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to an article called: Knowledge:Naming conventions (use English). which appears to be an article offering guidance regarding the name or title to choose for articles.
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1870:. Also, while anime and manga refer to a specific kind of animation and comic art, respectively, "mangaka" is a term that can easily be translated to English. -
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in the English language (by a lack of Google hits, for example). On Google I see 7.3 million hits for "mangaka" and about 10% that number for "manga creator."
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have found their way into common English usage and are understood by most English readers. So these terms do not need to be explained when used in an article.
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Sometimes in manga, usually in the foreword section, the artist will refer to his artwork as his "Mangaka". I think we should make the following edition:
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1341:- Agree with the concerns by Farix. Mangaka has not penetrated to be considered common use and an English term would be more appropriate in this case.
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Recognizability: I think the name "manga artist" is far easier to understand to someone who knows nothing about this than the specific term "Mangaka"
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has not penetrated into the English language", and our naming conventions prefer that we do not make up a term that is not already in wide use.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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applies to LtPowers here--you are the one who wants to change the status quo. And while you can't prove a negative, you can show
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
618:"Mangaka is sometimes (not usually) used to refer to the authors work, when the author is speaking about his/her manga."
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
109:, and related topics on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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to do so here. I've invited the editor who made the suggestion over here to express his point of view on this matter.
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Can you come up with a citation? If not don't add it until you can. And a reliable source, like a magazine, etc.--
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Japanese letter order is only suitable for Japanese reading people, which are not the only ones to read Manga.
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but the final entry in the Terminology discussion is reflected in the text of the Manual of Style itself.
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A section for that sounds good to me. Your draft is alright. The only things I would say is italicize
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Could someone who speaks Japanese please add Japanese names to the (still very stubby) new articles
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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This page really needs to be redone... This is kind of sad. I wish there was a Mangaka project. --
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The problem with that term is that it excludes manga authors who do not illustrate their works. —
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French ladies. I can't wait to meet one, and practice my French "techniques", to borrow a word!)
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between
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Besides, the Japanese name is not always available when the first lines of a stub are written.
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as a broader article name that would include both artists and writers. Then you can have
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in any other language wikipedia,mangaka and list of mangaka are divided.I would divide.--
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Well... if so, that should be explained in the lead. Otherwise a casual reader reader
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Should we order this and if so how, by Japanese letter order or English? --
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and most places where "Mangaka" is linked pipe it to show "Manga artist".
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal.
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a rename proposal is very likely. But what should it be renamed to,
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.
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and make sure to keep the date format consistent when adding it.
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inside the manual of Style currently gives the following result:
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feel free to give it a read and share your thoughts on the idea.
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Due to the above, the article should be moved to Manga artist.
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Yeah, but the phrase “manga creator” is even rarer. How about “
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Consistency: The category for manga artists/mangaka is titled
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I once again request feedback regarding the usage of the word
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I agree. It's already happened with the widespread use of "
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Should the surnames be alphabetized, in the Latin order? --
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On 5 September 2012, it was proposed that this article be
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If you would like to participate, you can help with the
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There is a difference between these two sets of terms.
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would be fine so long as other editors don't exclude
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For the same reason the "Seiyu" article was renamed "
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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
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It has previously been proposed that this article be
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Naming order in relation to works of Western origin
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1026:" is the most common in Japanese, or maybe it's "
1491:on Mangaka throws up 7.4 million hits including
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1948:Start-Class Comics articles of Mid-importance
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38:It is of interest to the following
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1022:" (meaning "syllable", roughly) "
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1885:The discussion above is closed.
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1943:Mid-importance Comics articles
1794:closed by non-admin page mover
1634:Move request made by the Farix
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572:Yes, and they already are. --
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362:This article is supported by
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1761:Requested move 1 August 2021
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611:Mangaka as the manga itself.
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1868:glossary of anime and manga
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1743:Thanks for the feedback!
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1894:Title Still a Bit Off
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589:Forestfarmer
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535:Barefoot Gen
527:
499:
474:
450:
437:
430:Manga artist
402:no consensus
401:
363:
341:
304:notice board
302:, visit the
294:Get involved
292:
282:
197:
140:
96:
40:WikiProjects
1821:WP:CRITERIA
1780:move review
1655:Visual arts
1576:Terminology
1497:regentspark
1284:, going to
932:the prefix
733:86.45.91.71
669:Southsailor
462:21 May 2021
205:Occupations
168:Occupations
30:Start-class
1917:Categories
1799:Jack Frost
1439:should not
1375:You can't
1295:— A. di M.
1250:— A. di M.
1096:KudouUsagi
993:66.92.0.62
966:66.92.0.62
539:(Done, by
1819:– As per
1662:Dthomsen8
1493:this book
1413:WP:BURDEN
1207:. Unlike
1016:particles
784:WP:JARGON
1850:Link20XX
1727:Link20XX
1684:Dimadick
1472:Dekimasu
1421:Dekimasu
938:favorite
625:unsigned
583:division
482:PrimeBOT
244:Creators
199:inactive
173:inactive
1872:Xexerss
1864:Support
1813:Mangaka
1745:Wacheli
1708:Wacheli
1610:Mangaka
1596:Mangaka
1568:Mangaka
1502:comment
1364:mangaka
1339:Support
1290:mangaka
1217:mangaka
1191:Mangaka
1115:Mangaka
873:mangaka
776:Mangaka
701:AMHR285
541:User:Sh
470:Wacheli
426:Mangaka
344:on the
143:on the
1789:moved.
1485:Oppose
1368:Powers
1360:Oppose
1121:, and
1032:Unfree
985:gaijin
942:Unfree
918:Unfree
903:Unfree
877:seiyuu
850:Unfree
808:Unfree
749:Unfree
715:Unfree
697:Seiyuu
682:Unfree
317:Comics
289:comics
239:Comics
36:scale.
1831:name.
1704:draft
1676:manga
1444:Farix
1386:Farix
1315:Farix
1263:Farix
1223:Farix
1213:manga
1209:anime
1199:– as
1128:Farix
1072:Farix
926:maybe
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780:seiyū
772:manga
768:Anime
574:nihon
438:moved
424:from
422:moved
394:moved
107:manga
103:anime
1905:talk
1876:talk
1854:talk
1803:talk
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1731:talk
1712:talk
1688:talk
1666:talk
1643:talk
1619:talk
1603:here
1572:link
1564:here
1548:talk
1347:talk
1211:and
1177:talk
1171:. --
1100:talk
1036:talk
1020:mora
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970:talk
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930:both
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885:talk
875:and
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794:Talk
786:. --
778:and
770:and
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633:talk
552:Talk
533:and
486:talk
460:and
436:was
308:edit
1381:You
1173:BDD
1069:? —
1065:or
1057:or
1028:shi
934:and
548:Hob
517:Lvr
480:by
428:to
396:to
336:Mid
135:Top
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296:!
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171:(
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42::
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
