Knowledge (XXG)

Talk:Maqam (shrine)

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775: 754: 686: 665: 74: 308: 53: 1142:, and there is a mikhrab but never a cenotaph. The fact that this construction is called a wely or maqam isn't true. A wely/kubbeh/maqam is a funeral place of a saint de facto, or a supposed funeral place. If there is no cenotaph, it means the structure is not a wely/kubbeh/maqam. And one more time: there is no deference in size between them. Here are two examples when one object is called a wely as well as a maqam: 84: 195: 174: 205: 22: 1269:
All of part A is devoted to these questions, which is why it is hard to summarise. Note that lots of material in that book is good for articles and available nowhere else, but it can be hard to find due to the unusual transliteration (such as šêḫ for "sheik"; in case the last letter doesn't show it
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Huldra: Objects that Victor Guérin and others call “oualy” or "koubbeh", are called "wely" (shrine), "kubbeh' or "makam" in English resources, and "Mukam" in the SWP. This is a common knowledge. Will you find examples on your own or should I show you? Palestinian Arabs still call maqams "waly" and
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Orest2000, the question isn't about “oualy”="wely" (shrine), or "koubbeh"= "kubbeh', the question is when is “oualy”/"wely" used, and when is "koubbeh"/"kubbeh', and when is maqam used. I haven't seen any formal definition, have you? My impression was that larger structures, like the one in
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That society wants to control their map collection by asking for an email address and sending a password. Given that they have gone to the trouble of scanning the maps and making them available for free, I'm not sure it is a great idea to antagonise them by uploading the maps to Commons without
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So it seems at least as if there has been a development in what a Makam/maqam is, from just a shrine, to a small building containing the tomb of a saint. While Wely/wali always meant a building containing the tomb of a saint. I think these definition back up my impression, that a weli was
1385:. None of the explorers ever connected them with these villages. You are the first who did it. However, if we follow your approach of localization and refer one or another maqam to the nearest Palestinian village (though I am not sure it is a right way), then anyway 1184:
The book of Canaan (Mohammedan Saints and Sanctuaries in Palestine) tries to classify the different types and how they are called, but the story is complex and the names don't seem consistent. I have that book in electronic form if either of you would like it.
1615:, you added to the preamble a quotation from Conder, but it is already in the text, in the "Construction and purpose" section. That`s a repetition. We should do something with it: either to take away this quotation from one of the sections or to combine it.-- 462: 1050:
Orest2000: Now that was a fascinating find, I hadn't noticed it. It is clear that the sources Petersen gives (Pringle, etc), refer to the Kafr Sum structure. (Petersen is quite unreliable about the sources he gives, though. See e.g.
1546:. I have just checked, and can confirm that the article has all the sources I gathered; leaving me feeling disappointed that I wasted my time but even moreso pleased that the work has been done here in such a high quality manner. 1693: 910:
No, wait, you say Ahmad al-Hubani not Ibrahim al-Hubani. I misread. It is at 1577-1259, which is Kh. el Hubein. The location is 2km west of Allar on the village lands of Allar (map Deir Esh Sheik, 1:20,000, 1942).
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This turns out to be a much more complicated issue than I thought. Perhaps we should start the article with the various definitions...given by Conder and Kitchener, 1881, Canaan, 1927, and Petersen, 2001.
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Orest2000: It does not a matter which village is the closest, what matters is on whose juristriction the Maqam is located. According to Zero0000, Ahmad al-Hubani was on
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was closer to the Maqam of sheikh ‘Awad (2 km away), but not Al-Majdal (2.5 km away). If this maqam is connected with Al-Majdal in the Hebrew Wiki, it is not right. --
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Having said that, it slightly depends on the scope of this article. Do you consider this article to be primarily about "Palestinian maqams" or about maqams worldwide?
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This is a superb new article - well done. Coincidentally I had been gathering sources on the exact same topic in recent weeks, after having stumbled across
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is "h" with a curl below it). I usually can't find localities in that book without scanning the index. Back to the topic, I note that Canaan considers
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this article appears, at its heart, to be about Maqams in the historical region of Palestine, rather than a review of Maqams across the world (per
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a section on mawsim festivals, as documented in Canaan's book, would be a great addition - assuming the Palestinian scope is agreed per above.
726: 498: 957:, would you? If so, I wouldn't mind one coming my way.....(note that I have a new email address, same as my old, except it is now @mail.com) 1899: 1884: 1836:
Someone needs to work on including them. There are many. And if the article is further developed you can also include the Maqams in Iraq.
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Hmm, I have to go through that book, and insert all the relevant info, too. Another project waiting.... And I see it is on archive, too,
1078:, which each village had, often was the village mosque...or wely. I cannot see that he would use the word Maqam as a substitute here? 1062:
Another thing, I'm unsure if we can equate maqam with Weli, or wali? Do you have a source? My impression was that weli was often a bit
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near Allar, but there is one just east of Ras Abu Ammar at 1599-1269. It doesn't say "al-Hubani" though. I'll look more later.
101:, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic 1889: 539: 566: 320: 218: 179: 33: 1067: 1637:". I consider that quote to be one of the article's most important contents, so I think it should be duplicated in the lead. 693: 670: 382: 862:, but I don't have the maps. I think it is Kh. ash Sh. Ibrahim on 09Ramle.jpg, while it was Khurbet Hubin on SWP map 17. 1696:
into the mainspace? I would need to put the raw/hidden text onto the talk page. The topic is referenced in this article.
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Huldra: As for me, it doesn't feel like “oualy/wely", "koubbeh/kubbeh" и "mukam/maqam" differ in size. The structure in
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Ok, excellent, (I don't have the Hourani-source, so I wouldn't know how much "usable stuff" there is in it) cheers,
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Zero0000: The Canaan book (Mohammedan Saints and Sanctuaries in Palestine) is available on the net, and linked at
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Orest2000: I tried to find some definitions, here is what I found from Conder and Kitchener, 1881, p.
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Frantzman, S. J. and Bar, D. (2013) Mapping Muslim Sacred Tombs in Palestine During the Mandate Period
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land. I don't know on whose land ‘Awad is, I only note what Hebrew Knowledge (XXG) writes.
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Ok, Ill start working on it, again. Sorry it slipped may mind....There is still a bit to to,
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Another -quite unrelated- issue, is, does anyone have any chanse of getting hold of the maps
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was called maqam. Also that maqams were often reported to be gravesites, like the ones in
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Huldra: Strictly speaking, the Maqam of sheikh ‘Awad belongs neither to Al-Majdal, nor to
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and that article says (if my google translate is correct), that the shrine belonged to
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generally more important than a Makam/maqam. Obviously, there has been some overlap,
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maqam: Small building containing the tomb of a saint (see also wali and mashhad).
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Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran
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Hey Huldra, I think Onceinawhile already added any useful material from there.
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I am in some doubt as to under which village Sheikh Ahmad al-Hubani belonged,
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Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Palestine/Article drafts/Mausoleum of Abu Huraira
1031:. A. Petersen has a little confusion over this maqam (Petersen 2001, 195). - 1339:: On the map SWP 16, Sheikh ‘Awad looks as if it is in equal distance from 1235:
wali: Building containing the tomb of a saint (see also maqam and mashhad)
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is not a wely/maqam, not a tomb of a sheikh and not a shrine; it is a small
630: 194: 173: 1120:, while “oualy”/"wely" were more like mosques, that is, places of worship. 1016: 353: 349: 1112:, was called “oualy”/"wely", while smaller structures, like the one in 1845: 1823: 1809: 1780: 1753: 1743: 1722: 1705: 1668: 1651: 1624: 1603: 1576: 1515: 1505: 1473: 1464: 1440: 1434: 1422: 1416: 1398: 1367: 1315: 1294: 1256: 1189: 1179: 1129: 1102: 1087: 1044: 1000: 984: 966: 948: 915: 896: 875: 1439:
I agree, on SWP map 16 it sits basically almost equally distance from
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https://archive.org/details/MohammedanSaintsAndSanctuariesInPalestine
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Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People
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commons, it would be very helpful in finding/verifying the places
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mashhad: Sacred place. Can mean the burial place of a saint.
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Makam (sometimes spelt Makam): Sacred station, or shrine.
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in honor of this new article, are you happy for me to put
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I've seen it described as a mosque built around a maqam.
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of Canaan gives a good list of the most important mawsim.
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Articles needing translation from Hebrew Knowledge (XXG)
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However, there is an article in he.wp about this place
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asking. I requested the maps to start with, though.
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Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005
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Template:Islamic holy sites in Israel and Palestine
1218:Wely: Moslem saint (used for a saint's tomb). 1557:) so we might consider clarifying in the title. 1381:, and the Maqam of sheikh Ahmad al-Hubani – to 575:Knowledge (XXG) requested photographs in Israel 1469:Village land of Hamama according to 1942 map. 1731:Is Sidna Ali mosque a maqam, and if not, why? 1481:Thanks! Well, that means that he.wp is wrong. 935:on 09Ramle.jpg, I missed that. So it is on 8: 1631:Knowledge (XXG):Manual of Style/Lead section 560:Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries 1352:https://he.wikipedia.org/קבר_השייח%27_עוואד 1286:it means that the building is devoted to a 1865:High-importance Palestine-related articles 748: 659: 490:Israel articles missing geocoordinate data 374:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration 335:Unknown-importance Israel-related articles 315:Here are some tasks awaiting attention: 269: 168: 47: 1421:Is on whose juristriction, this could be 1635:a summary of its most important contents 1222:...while Petersen, 2001, p. 325, gives: 939:land: that is the most important issue, 545:Knowledge (XXG) requested maps in Israel 113:on Knowledge (XXG). Join us by visiting 750: 661: 170: 49: 19: 1880:Low-importance Israel-related articles 1767:should be incorporated here? Say, the 1057:Talk:Tayibe#Petersen.2C_2001.2C_mix-up 953:Btw, you wouldn't happen to have that 800:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Cemeteries 131:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Palestine 117:, where you can add your name to the 7: 1488:? They really should be uploaded to 1247:. What pages is the discussion on? 780:This article is within the scope of 691:This article is within the scope of 216:This article is within the scope of 95:This article is within the scope of 1455:: do you know on whose land it is? 1274:to be a type of person, along with 404:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel 38:It is of interest to the following 1905:Low-importance Cemeteries articles 1860:B-Class Palestine-related articles 1290:(whether or not there is a tomb). 1074:, who writes that the guesthouse, 329:Unassessed Israel-related articles 236:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Israel 14: 711:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Death 524:Israel articles needing attention 507:Israel articles needing infoboxes 773: 752: 684: 663: 350:Cleanup listing for this project 306: 203: 193: 172: 121:where you can contribute to the 82: 72: 51: 20: 1875:B-Class Israel-related articles 1215:Mesh-hed: Monument or shrine. 820:This article has been rated as 803:Template:WikiProject Cemeteries 731:This article has been rated as 540:Module:Location map/data/Israel 256:This article has been rated as 151:This article has been rated as 1870:WikiProject Palestine articles 1754:03:21, 18 September 2020 (UTC) 1744:19:43, 17 September 2020 (UTC) 1549:My only two observations are: 1068:Charles Simon Clermont-Ganneau 927:, yeah, I misread, there is a 487:Add geographic coordinates to 401:Participate in discussions at 134:Template:WikiProject Palestine 1: 1895:Low-importance Death articles 1723:20:50, 1 September 2017 (UTC) 1706:15:27, 1 September 2017 (UTC) 1669:14:57, 1 September 2017 (UTC) 1534:Great work, with two comments 1282:. When a building is called 1144:Maqam Sheikh Bureik (‘Abreik) 794:and see a list of open tasks. 705:and see a list of open tasks. 230:and see a list of open tasks. 1846:01:38, 24 January 2024 (UTC) 1033:Maqam Sheikh Ahmad al-Hubani 572:Add pictures to articles in 1900:B-Class Cemeteries articles 1885:WikiProject Israel articles 1652:15:46, 30 August 2017 (UTC) 1625:15:11, 30 August 2017 (UTC) 1604:14:45, 29 August 2017 (UTC) 1577:10:36, 28 August 2017 (UTC) 1516:03:26, 25 August 2017 (UTC) 1506:20:08, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 1474:04:07, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 1465:20:26, 23 August 2017 (UTC) 1435:15:45, 23 August 2017 (UTC) 1417:21:38, 22 August 2017 (UTC) 1399:15:20, 22 August 2017 (UTC) 1368:20:14, 21 August 2017 (UTC) 1316:20:13, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 1295:09:17, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 1257:20:20, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 1190:20:06, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 1180:13:08, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 1130:20:23, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1103:14:49, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1088:20:41, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 1045:14:07, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 1001:20:41, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 985:15:40, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 980:Hopefully in your mailbox. 967:23:24, 16 August 2017 (UTC) 949:20:03, 16 August 2017 (UTC) 916:10:33, 16 August 2017 (UTC) 897:05:29, 16 August 2017 (UTC) 876:21:00, 15 August 2017 (UTC) 459:Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu 239:Template:WikiProject Israel 1921: 1810:13:18, 29 April 2021 (UTC) 1781:23:39, 27 April 2021 (UTC) 991:Zero0000: Thanks! Got it! 826:project's importance scale 737:project's importance scale 714:Template:WikiProject Death 542:. Add maps to articles in 423:Diamond industry in Israel 262:project's importance scale 157:project's importance scale 137:Palestine-related articles 1586:. 1) I'm related to this 819: 768: 730: 679: 268: 255: 188: 150: 67: 46: 1066:than a Maqam, see e.g. 482:Geographical coordinates 1824:21:14, 1 May 2021 (UTC) 1540:this excellent resource 1209:Kubbet (Kubbeb): dome 451:Public Defence (Israel) 352:is available. See also 242:Israel-related articles 1890:B-Class Death articles 843:Sheikh Ahmad al-Hubani 783:WikiProject Cemeteries 28:This article is rated 273:Project Israel To Do: 98:WikiProject Palestine 32:on Knowledge (XXG)'s 358:the tool's wiki page 354:the list by category 1490:Gottlieb Schumacher 933:Kh. ash Sh. Ibrahim 866:, what do you say? 806:Cemeteries articles 622:Translate to Hebrew 1445:Al-Majdal, Askalan 1356:Al-Majdal, Askalan 1345:Al-Majdal, Askalan 1330:Al-Majdal, Askalan 538:See discussion at 219:WikiProject Israel 111:State of Palestine 107:Palestinian people 34:content assessment 1765:User:Tiamut/Maqam 1555:Mazar (mausoleum) 1324:Sheikh ‘Awad, in 1053:Talk:Tira, Israel 840: 839: 836: 835: 832: 831: 747: 746: 743: 742: 694:WikiProject Death 658: 657: 654: 653: 650: 649: 646: 645: 504:Add infoboxes to 467:Pre-Modern Aliyah 439:Sephardic Haredim 167: 166: 163: 162: 1912: 1806: 1803: 1800: 1797: 1794: 1791: 1691: 1405:Allar, Jerusalem 1383:Allar, Jerusalem 1268: 1027:15–12, 157/126: 1021:Khirbet el-Hubin 979: 937:Allar, Jerusalem 931:, just south of 926: 909: 887: 860:Allar, Jerusalem 849:Allar, Jerusalem 808: 807: 804: 801: 798: 777: 770: 769: 764: 756: 749: 719: 718: 715: 712: 709: 688: 681: 680: 675: 667: 660: 455:Prisoner of Zion 396:Deletion sorting 310: 303: 302: 270: 244: 243: 240: 237: 234: 213: 208: 207: 206: 197: 190: 189: 184: 176: 169: 139: 138: 135: 132: 129: 115:the project page 92: 90:Palestine portal 87: 86: 85: 76: 69: 68: 63: 55: 48: 31: 25: 24: 16: 1920: 1919: 1915: 1914: 1913: 1911: 1910: 1909: 1850: 1849: 1838:Lebanesebebe123 1834: 1832:Lebanese Maqams 1804: 1801: 1798: 1795: 1792: 1789: 1733: 1685: 1683: 1542:while building 1536: 1334: 1262: 973: 920: 903: 890:Esh Sh. Ibrahim 881: 845: 805: 802: 799: 796: 795: 762: 716: 713: 710: 707: 706: 673: 642: 627:David Bar-Hayim 435:Rami Kleinstein 419:Ayala Procaccia 371:Participate in 301: 241: 238: 235: 232: 231: 209: 204: 202: 182: 153:High-importance 136: 133: 130: 127: 126: 119:list of members 88: 83: 81: 62:High‑importance 61: 29: 12: 11: 5: 1918: 1916: 1908: 1907: 1902: 1897: 1892: 1887: 1882: 1877: 1872: 1867: 1862: 1852: 1851: 1833: 1830: 1829: 1828: 1827: 1826: 1769:Albert Hourani 1757: 1756: 1732: 1729: 1728: 1727: 1726: 1725: 1682: 1679: 1678: 1677: 1676: 1675: 1674: 1673: 1672: 1671: 1641: 1638: 1629:Hi Orest, per 1607: 1606: 1566: 1565: 1558: 1535: 1532: 1531: 1530: 1529: 1528: 1527: 1526: 1525: 1524: 1523: 1522: 1521: 1520: 1519: 1518: 1482: 1337:User:Orest2000 1333: 1322: 1321: 1320: 1319: 1318: 1303: 1237: 1236: 1233: 1230: 1227: 1220: 1219: 1216: 1213: 1210: 1199: 1198: 1197: 1196: 1195: 1194: 1193: 1192: 1182: 1152:Tomb of Shaykh 1140:village mosque 1060: 1014: 1013: 1012: 1011: 1010: 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1245:Tawfiq Canaan 1241: 1234: 1231: 1228: 1226:qubba: dome 1225: 1224: 1223: 1217: 1214: 1211: 1208: 1207: 1206: 1204: 1191: 1188: 1183: 1181: 1177: 1173: 1169: 1165: 1161: 1157: 1153: 1149: 1145: 1141: 1137: 1133: 1132: 1131: 1127: 1123: 1119: 1115: 1111: 1106: 1105: 1104: 1100: 1096: 1093:vice versa.-- 1091: 1090: 1089: 1085: 1081: 1077: 1073: 1069: 1065: 1061: 1058: 1054: 1049: 1048: 1047: 1046: 1042: 1038: 1034: 1030: 1029:Kh. el-Hubein 1026: 1022: 1018: 1002: 998: 994: 990: 989: 988: 987: 986: 983: 977: 972: 971: 970: 969: 968: 964: 960: 956: 952: 950: 946: 942: 938: 934: 930: 924: 919: 918: 917: 914: 907: 902: 901: 898: 895: 891: 885: 880: 879: 878: 877: 873: 869: 865: 864:User:Zero0000 861: 856: 854: 850: 842: 827: 823: 817: 814: 813: 810: 793: 789: 785: 784: 779: 776: 772: 771: 767: 761: 758: 755: 751: 738: 734: 728: 725: 724: 721: 704: 700: 696: 695: 690: 687: 683: 682: 678: 672: 669: 666: 662: 636: 632: 628: 625: 623: 619: 618: 616: 614: 610: 608: 605: 603: 602: 597: 594: 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Index


content assessment
WikiProjects
WikiProject icon
Palestine
WikiProject icon
Palestine portal
WikiProject Palestine
Palestine
Palestinian people
State of Palestine
the project page
list of members
discussions
High
project's importance scale
WikiProject icon
Israel
WikiProject icon
Israel portal
WikiProject Israel
Israel
the discussion
Low
project's importance scale
edit
history
watch
purge

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