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1142:, and there is a mikhrab but never a cenotaph. The fact that this construction is called a wely or maqam isn't true. A wely/kubbeh/maqam is a funeral place of a saint de facto, or a supposed funeral place. If there is no cenotaph, it means the structure is not a wely/kubbeh/maqam. And one more time: there is no deference in size between them. Here are two examples when one object is called a wely as well as a maqam:
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All of part A is devoted to these questions, which is why it is hard to summarise. Note that lots of material in that book is good for articles and available nowhere else, but it can be hard to find due to the unusual transliteration (such as šêḫ for "sheik"; in case the last letter doesn't show it
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Huldra: Objects that Victor Guérin and others call “oualy” or "koubbeh", are called "wely" (shrine), "kubbeh' or "makam" in
English resources, and "Mukam" in the SWP. This is a common knowledge. Will you find examples on your own or should I show you? Palestinian Arabs still call maqams "waly" and
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Orest2000, the question isn't about “oualy”="wely" (shrine), or "koubbeh"= "kubbeh', the question is when is “oualy”/"wely" used, and when is "koubbeh"/"kubbeh', and when is maqam used. I haven't seen any formal definition, have you? My impression was that larger structures, like the one in
1510:
That society wants to control their map collection by asking for an email address and sending a password. Given that they have gone to the trouble of scanning the maps and making them available for free, I'm not sure it is a great idea to antagonise them by uploading the maps to
Commons without
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So it seems at least as if there has been a development in what a Makam/maqam is, from just a shrine, to a small building containing the tomb of a saint. While Wely/wali always meant a building containing the tomb of a saint. I think these definition back up my impression, that a weli was
1385:. None of the explorers ever connected them with these villages. You are the first who did it. However, if we follow your approach of localization and refer one or another maqam to the nearest Palestinian village (though I am not sure it is a right way), then anyway
1184:
The book of Canaan (Mohammedan Saints and
Sanctuaries in Palestine) tries to classify the different types and how they are called, but the story is complex and the names don't seem consistent. I have that book in electronic form if either of you would like it.
1615:, you added to the preamble a quotation from Conder, but it is already in the text, in the "Construction and purpose" section. That`s a repetition. We should do something with it: either to take away this quotation from one of the sections or to combine it.--
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Orest2000: Now that was a fascinating find, I hadn't noticed it. It is clear that the sources
Petersen gives (Pringle, etc), refer to the Kafr Sum structure. (Petersen is quite unreliable about the sources he gives, though. See e.g.
1546:. I have just checked, and can confirm that the article has all the sources I gathered; leaving me feeling disappointed that I wasted my time but even moreso pleased that the work has been done here in such a high quality manner.
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910:
No, wait, you say Ahmad al-Hubani not
Ibrahim al-Hubani. I misread. It is at 1577-1259, which is Kh. el Hubein. The location is 2km west of Allar on the village lands of Allar (map Deir Esh Sheik, 1:20,000, 1942).
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This turns out to be a much more complicated issue than I thought. Perhaps we should start the article with the various definitions...given by Conder and
Kitchener, 1881, Canaan, 1927, and Petersen, 2001.
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Orest2000: It does not a matter which village is the closest, what matters is on whose juristriction the Maqam is located. According to Zero0000, Ahmad al-Hubani was on
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was closer to the Maqam of sheikh ‘Awad (2 km away), but not Al-Majdal (2.5 km away). If this maqam is connected with Al-Majdal in the Hebrew Wiki, it is not right. --
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Having said that, it slightly depends on the scope of this article. Do you consider this article to be primarily about "Palestinian maqams" or about maqams worldwide?
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This is a superb new article - well done. Coincidentally I had been gathering sources on the exact same topic in recent weeks, after having stumbled across
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is "h" with a curl below it). I usually can't find localities in that book without scanning the index. Back to the topic, I note that Canaan considers
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this article appears, at its heart, to be about Maqams in the historical region of
Palestine, rather than a review of Maqams across the world (per
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a section on mawsim festivals, as documented in Canaan's book, would be a great addition - assuming the
Palestinian scope is agreed per above.
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957:, would you? If so, I wouldn't mind one coming my way.....(note that I have a new email address, same as my old, except it is now @mail.com)
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Someone needs to work on including them. There are many. And if the article is further developed you can also include the Maqams in Iraq.
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Hmm, I have to go through that book, and insert all the relevant info, too. Another project waiting.... And I see it is on archive, too,
1078:, which each village had, often was the village mosque...or wely. I cannot see that he would use the word Maqam as a substitute here?
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Another thing, I'm unsure if we can equate maqam with Weli, or wali? Do you have a source? My impression was that weli was often a bit
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near Allar, but there is one just east of Ras Abu Ammar at 1599-1269. It doesn't say "al-Hubani" though. I'll look more later.
101:, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic
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1637:". I consider that quote to be one of the article's most important contents, so I think it should be duplicated in the lead.
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862:, but I don't have the maps. I think it is Kh. ash Sh. Ibrahim on 09Ramle.jpg, while it was Khurbet Hubin on SWP map 17.
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into the mainspace? I would need to put the raw/hidden text onto the talk page. The topic is referenced in this article.
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Huldra: As for me, it doesn't feel like “oualy/wely", "koubbeh/kubbeh" и "mukam/maqam" differ in size. The structure in
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Ok, excellent, (I don't have the
Hourani-source, so I wouldn't know how much "usable stuff" there is in it) cheers,
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Zero0000: The Canaan book (Mohammedan Saints and
Sanctuaries in Palestine) is available on the net, and linked at
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Orest2000: I tried to find some definitions, here is what I found from Conder and Kitchener, 1881, p.
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Frantzman, S. J. and Bar, D. (2013) Mapping Muslim Sacred Tombs in Palestine During the Mandate Period
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land. I don't know on whose land ‘Awad is, I only note what Hebrew Knowledge (XXG) writes.
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Ok, Ill start working on it, again. Sorry it slipped may mind....There is still a bit to to,
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Another -quite unrelated- issue, is, does anyone have any chanse of getting hold of the maps
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was called maqam. Also that maqams were often reported to be gravesites, like the ones in
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Huldra: Strictly speaking, the Maqam of sheikh ‘Awad belongs neither to Al-Majdal, nor to
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and that article says (if my google translate is correct), that the shrine belonged to
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generally more important than a Makam/maqam. Obviously, there has been some overlap,
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maqam: Small building containing the tomb of a saint (see also wali and mashhad).
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Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran
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Hey Huldra, I think Onceinawhile already added any useful material from there.
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I am in some doubt as to under which village Sheikh Ahmad al-Hubani belonged,
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Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Palestine/Article drafts/Mausoleum of Abu Huraira
1031:. A. Petersen has a little confusion over this maqam (Petersen 2001, 195). -
1339:: On the map SWP 16, Sheikh ‘Awad looks as if it is in equal distance from
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wali: Building containing the tomb of a saint (see also maqam and mashhad)
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is not a wely/maqam, not a tomb of a sheikh and not a shrine; it is a small
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I agree, on SWP map 16 it sits basically almost equally distance from
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https://archive.org/details/MohammedanSaintsAndSanctuariesInPalestine
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Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People
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commons, it would be very helpful in finding/verifying the places
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1377:. As well as the Maqam of sheikh ‘Usheish does not relate to
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mashhad: Sacred place. Can mean the burial place of a saint.
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Makam (sometimes spelt Makam): Sacred station, or shrine.
1692:
in honor of this new article, are you happy for me to put
1594:("religious festival") should write a separate article. --
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I've seen it described as a mosque built around a maqam.
1633:: "The lead serves as an introduction to the article and
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of Canaan gives a good list of the most important mawsim.
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Articles needing translation from Hebrew Knowledge (XXG)
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However, there is an article in he.wp about this place
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asking. I requested the maps to start with, though.
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697:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005
222:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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Template:Islamic holy sites in Israel and Palestine
1218:Wely: Moslem saint (used for a saint's tomb).
1557:) so we might consider clarifying in the title.
1381:, and the Maqam of sheikh Ahmad al-Hubani – to
575:Knowledge (XXG) requested photographs in Israel
1469:Village land of Hamama according to 1942 map.
1731:Is Sidna Ali mosque a maqam, and if not, why?
1481:Thanks! Well, that means that he.wp is wrong.
935:on 09Ramle.jpg, I missed that. So it is on
8:
1631:Knowledge (XXG):Manual of Style/Lead section
560:Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries
1352:https://he.wikipedia.org/קבר_השייח%27_עוואד
1286:it means that the building is devoted to a
1865:High-importance Palestine-related articles
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659:
490:Israel articles missing geocoordinate data
374:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration
335:Unknown-importance Israel-related articles
315:Here are some tasks awaiting attention:
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1421:Is on whose juristriction, this could be
1635:a summary of its most important contents
1222:...while Petersen, 2001, p. 325, gives:
939:land: that is the most important issue,
545:Knowledge (XXG) requested maps in Israel
113:on Knowledge (XXG). Join us by visiting
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170:
49:
19:
1880:Low-importance Israel-related articles
1767:should be incorporated here? Say, the
1057:Talk:Tayibe#Petersen.2C_2001.2C_mix-up
953:Btw, you wouldn't happen to have that
800:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Cemeteries
131:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Palestine
117:, where you can add your name to the
7:
1488:? They really should be uploaded to
1247:. What pages is the discussion on?
780:This article is within the scope of
691:This article is within the scope of
216:This article is within the scope of
95:This article is within the scope of
1455:: do you know on whose land it is?
1274:to be a type of person, along with
404:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel
38:It is of interest to the following
1905:Low-importance Cemeteries articles
1860:B-Class Palestine-related articles
1290:(whether or not there is a tomb).
1074:, who writes that the guesthouse,
329:Unassessed Israel-related articles
236:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Israel
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507:Israel articles needing infoboxes
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1215:Mesh-hed: Monument or shrine.
820:This article has been rated as
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731:This article has been rated as
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151:This article has been rated as
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1754:03:21, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
1744:19:43, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
1549:My only two observations are:
1068:Charles Simon Clermont-Ganneau
927:, yeah, I misread, there is a
487:Add geographic coordinates to
401:Participate in discussions at
134:Template:WikiProject Palestine
1:
1895:Low-importance Death articles
1723:20:50, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
1706:15:27, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
1669:14:57, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
1534:Great work, with two comments
1282:. When a building is called
1144:Maqam Sheikh Bureik (‘Abreik)
794:and see a list of open tasks.
705:and see a list of open tasks.
230:and see a list of open tasks.
1846:01:38, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
1033:Maqam Sheikh Ahmad al-Hubani
572:Add pictures to articles in
1900:B-Class Cemeteries articles
1885:WikiProject Israel articles
1652:15:46, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
1625:15:11, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
1604:14:45, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
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1001:20:41, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
985:15:40, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
980:Hopefully in your mailbox.
967:23:24, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
949:20:03, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
916:10:33, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
897:05:29, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
876:21:00, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
459:Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu
239:Template:WikiProject Israel
1921:
1810:13:18, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
1781:23:39, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
991:Zero0000: Thanks! Got it!
826:project's importance scale
737:project's importance scale
714:Template:WikiProject Death
542:. Add maps to articles in
423:Diamond industry in Israel
262:project's importance scale
157:project's importance scale
137:Palestine-related articles
1586:. 1) I'm related to this
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1066:than a Maqam, see e.g.
482:Geographical coordinates
1824:21:14, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
1540:this excellent resource
1209:Kubbet (Kubbeb): dome
451:Public Defence (Israel)
352:is available. See also
242:Israel-related articles
1890:B-Class Death articles
843:Sheikh Ahmad al-Hubani
783:WikiProject Cemeteries
28:This article is rated
273:Project Israel To Do:
98:WikiProject Palestine
32:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
358:the tool's wiki page
354:the list by category
1490:Gottlieb Schumacher
933:Kh. ash Sh. Ibrahim
866:, what do you say?
806:Cemeteries articles
622:Translate to Hebrew
1445:Al-Majdal, Askalan
1356:Al-Majdal, Askalan
1345:Al-Majdal, Askalan
1330:Al-Majdal, Askalan
538:See discussion at
219:WikiProject Israel
111:State of Palestine
107:Palestinian people
34:content assessment
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1681:Abu Hureira
1590:. 2) About
1582:Thank you,
1136:Bayt Mahsir
1110:Bayt Mahsir
858:I suspect
366:Collaborate
123:discussions
1854:Categories
1114:Ayn Ghazal
1017:PEF 17, Ku
797:Cemeteries
788:Cemeteries
760:Cemeteries
635:Guy Oseary
427:Edna Arbel
1661:Orest2000
1617:Orest2000
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1427:Orest2000
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1172:Orest2000
1118:Bir Ma'in
1095:Orest2000
1037:Orest2000
1025:Palestine
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470:See also
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103:Palestine
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1771:source?
1759:Some of
1736:Arminden
1588:resource
1562:Page 215
1076:medhafeh
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516:Maintain
383:Copyedit
109:and the
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824:on the
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499:Infobox
344:Cleanup
287:history
260:on the
155:on the
30:B-class
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1773:Huldra
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633:, and
601:Update
413:Expand
321:Assess
233:Israel
224:Israel
180:Israel
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1328:, or
1276:sheik
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1156:Mukam
851:, or
708:Death
699:Death
671:Death
613:Other
584:Stubs
567:Photo
297:purge
292:watch
1842:talk
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1461:talk
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