1356:, thank you for reviewing the article again. I will look at those GA articles you mentioned (up until now, I have been generally referring to FA university articles like Dartmouth and FAU as references), and will make corrections based on the suggestions you made (FARMM section, sketching school section etc.). As for neutrality and being broad and focused, what do you think about it now, after my edits the last few days? I am willing to go through each sentence and correct all copyvio using the Earwig copyvio detector, which I would expect could be completed by Wednesday or Thursday. Would you still be willing to review it again by the end of the week? I have quite a bit of free time at the moment and would prefer not to have to re-nominate the article again if I do not have to, as my university deadlines are coming up at the end of the month/beginning of May.
1259:. I believe I have sufficiently rewritten all of the problematic parts of the article, properly sourced all sections and removed non-neutral language. During the process of looking over all of the sources, I found more information I would consider notable and added it into certain sections. Rather than listing names in a few areas, I created NoteTags for these lists, such as the schools founded by faculty in the Lead, graduates of the School who died in War, and those who were awarded medals of distinction. I also added summaries of the important sections of the article, i.e. History, Student life and Academics to better comply with Lead guidelines. I think it's ready for a re-review!
1172:
based important to understanding the history of the school? Why single out that one thesis in the history section, which could set a precedent for other editors to add mention of other theses? Likewise, is the history of the
Macdonald-Harrington building important to the history of the school? Is it necessary to name the first three graduates of the school, who aren't mentioned elsewhere in the article? A lot of this information could be trimmed, and would make for a more concise summary of the subject. Another option is to move more information down into footnotes.
1139:
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1195:. I will spend the next few hours working on the article, beginning with the Referencing & verifiability section. At the time that I created the article and added most of that information, I was much newer to Knowledge (XXG) and unfamiliar with citation guidelines. The sources in those sections are there, but are most likely only referenced once and at the end of paragraphs. Will update here with progress.
506:
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1095:). These are only recommendations and only at the FA level, but I fix them wherever I see them. There is some inconsistency in the style of academic years with 1949/1950 used early in the article and 2010–2011 used later. Although either is allowable, it's best to use one style consistently throughout the article. 1949–50 is the more common style on Knowledge (XXG) and avoids
464:
318:
42:
1453:. Thank you again for your response, and for assuring me that there is no deadline. I will have quite a bit of work for the rest of this month and will likely only have time to make sparse edits to the article, so I will have to take up your offer for another review next month. Will you keep the nomination on hold until then, or close the review? Thank you.
661:– try to find another way to state "accredited by the Canadian Architectural Certification Board (CACB) and is recognized by the National Council of Architectural Registration Boards (NCARB) in the United States." You can't do much about the proper names, but you should be able to change the structure.
1171:
Before working too much on citations, though, consider whether some information is important enough to the subject to be included in the article, or to be included in certain places. Habitat 67 is a prominent project and I feel it has good mention in
Notable alumni, but was the thesis on which it is
1163:
to use primary sources, but doing so requires extra attention. We have to be very mindful of the tone, so that it reads like an encyclopedia article and not an admissions brochure. We also have to watch for what is most notable and keep the summary concise. It's difficult to be neutral when drawing
1337:
I could go through the rest of the article and give you a laundry list of problems, but I feel I'd be repeating myself. I'd rather you went through it and applied the notes I've given to the rest of the article. Check every sentence and citation against the GA criteria. Then, once you're confident
1416:
There might be some layout tweaks to be made. The layout is about (1) logical grouping, with similar things put together (e.g.: perhaps moving the table of directors into the administration section), and (2) establishing context so that the material which follows is understandable (e.g.: it might
1175:
With the above in mind, I feel that the article could use a bit of a rewrite. I haven't listed every specific thing needed to pass GA because there'd just be too much, but I hope that this provides enough feedback to get you going in the right direction. Please feel free to ask me if you have any
166:
This needs substantial work. I think it's possible to get it done in a week so I'll put it on hold and give you a chance to address the issues. You may want to skip down to the
General discussion part where I'll try to note the overall issues. If it takes longer than a week, I'll probably close
911:
The source doesn't say she's the first female director; one might infer that from the names of previous directors, but that's a bit of OR since we shouldn't assume how people gender identify. I don't think we should assume any special notability of being a "first female" unless reliable secondary
1168:
author-year or author-keyword are often used (naming by publication or author only can be problematic if multiple works by the same publication/author are used). It might be a good idea to name all the McGill website references starting with "McGill" so it is clear that they are primary sources.
1374:
and now understand what the issue is. Before, I was simply removing word-for-word copyvio by comparing with Earwig's (and just finished doing so from about 20 sources, though it was not much, apart from proper names). Now I will look at each source individually and compare to my own writing to
1167:
As for citing material: According to the GA criteria, not everything has to have an inline citation. On the other hand, everything has to be verifiable with no original research – and the easiest way to show that is through the use of inline citations. Name references in an orderly fashion;
1319:. Paraphrasing is one of those skills that's essential to content-editing on Knowledge (XXG). Whenever you save an edit, you're releasing it under a creative commons licence. But you can't release the work of another person; that's why you have to write article content in your own words.
1424:(part of the GA criteria) recommends three paragraphs for an article of this size (although I'm willing to consider an exception). However, the lead is really the last thing to work on; it's not productive to sweat the details there until the rest of the article is sorted.
813:, considered phasing out architectural education at the university due to low enrollment; however he faced a great deal of backlash from Turner and several famous architects from Montreal, and eventually abandoned the idea. Among these architects was
1331:
1408:
I really appreciate the three-sentences at the top of the
History section; that's good summary style. It gives the reader the essential context to understand what follows, whether they want to read further details on history or skip to the next L2
791:
The source says that Lismer was a founding member of the Group of Seven and began teaching at the school in 1943, becoming an asst prof in 1945, but nothing about the sketching school in 1921, its locations, or Lismer teaching it from 1941.
802:
two courses, not that it is a credited course in itself. Reading that this course lasts "a little over one week" and is not a full summer semester course, I wonder how important it is for inclusion (when no other courses are specifically
1412:
I suspect the prose could be tightened up, though when expanding an article it's almost always best to go wide and then pare it down. The GA criteria for prose is mainly about clarity and avoiding repetitiveness, so it shouldn't be too
968:
with no details, and each person had their own article, you wouldn't need citations. But as soon as you give any sort of detail (like the degree they hold and the year they graduated), you need a citation for that, particularly for
554:
I feel that it's unnecessary to mention some of the directors in the prose of the history section if all that's said about them is the years they began and ended their tenures as director; that is already accomplished with the
952:
program. In 1990, Derek
Drummond returned for another six years as the School's director, replaced by Professor David Covo in 1996. In 1997, the PhD program was officially approved by the Minister of Education as the first in
1311:
I can see you've made a lot of improvements. As I went through the referencing notes I'd left, there was still some close paraphrasing and copyvio in those sections. I feel that there's likely more of that elsewhere in the
1102:
Consider removing the
Student Life line from the infobox. The acronyms are puzzling but would take up a lot of space if expanded, the links all go to subsections of the article page. Consider targeting the AISA link to
598:
The sections
Workshop, Media Centre and FARMM logically belong within the section Macdonald-Harrington Building, within which those facilities are located. They might be so short that they don't need their own sections.
1164:
mostly from one source; the more varied the sources, the more balanced an article will tend to be. Secondary sources also help demonstrate what's notable about the subject and what should be included in an article.
629:
1158:
I feel that a lot of the problems stem from using so many primary sources. Primary sources can be used so long as they're reliable, but it's generally better to use reliable secondary sources. It's not
1326:
looks fairly good to me, as a target for what this article could look like (it passed GA 12 years ago and could use some touch up). Others, which don't quite appear to be of the same quality, are
986:
Reliance on primary sources makes it difficult to tell if the coverage is sufficiently broad. An encyclopedic summary of a subject should be more than a summary of that subject's official website.
47:
688:
674:
in the section John Bland
Canadian Architecture Collection. I think the best way to handle this would be to summarize the source rather than restating it and to neutralize the promotional tone.
1432:(don't worry about the seven-day thing). I'm feeling optimistic about this. I think I've got one more review in me, whether you're ready for that at the end of the week or next month. –
595:
Be careful about repeating things in different sections, like the lecture series. Summarize it in its own section and just briefly mention it elsewhere as needed and without elaboration.
1417:
make more sense for
Academics to precede Student life, as it discusses the programs and undergraduate/graduate degrees). I'll make any specific recommendations on that in my next review.
1119:"still remain" is redundant, and "today" is problematic as it might become outdated. Although wordier, it'd be more accurate to say something like "which remained in place as of 2020".
642:
1013:
According to whom? (The paragraph is unsourced.) This is a bit promotional for
Knowledge (XXG)'s voice. Just state the facts and leave it to the reader to determine if it's important.
126:
579:
What is a "university planning program"? I assume this is the "post-graduate architecture and planning program" a.k.a. School of Urban Planning, but I think this could be clearer.
122:
198:
835:
The citation is for the OAA being founded in 1889 – there's nothing about Wisnicki in either citation for that paragraph, and to me that's the more contestable statement.
720:, FARMM connects students and researchers with colleagues internationally, and provides modern infrastructure for simulation, imaging, and fabrication. (Keep it concise.)
242:
80:
107:
892:
which was confusingly named Highlights. The source named Highlights provides verification, but it's all very closely copied from that source and has to be paraphrased.
52:
1241:
Edited further today. Summarized each section in the Lead, I think successfully, and added more information with sources to the History section. Other minor edits.
1467:
What I'll do is close this review. When you're ready next month, nominate it again and ping me, or leave a message on my talk page, and I'll start a new review at
70:
99:
1227:. I have spent the last 4 hours editing and I believe I corrected all of the issues you brought up + made a few of my own edits to similar issues. Standing by.
456:
1104:
259:
A little too verbose, some promotional language; some information is repeated in different sections and the section hierarchy could use a slight refinement
246:
238:
608:
Similarly, I think that there could be an overarching section Libraries and collections for a lot of the other subsections in Buildings and resources.
296:
230:
923:
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1471:. That'd probably be easier for me, as it's a bit like hitting a moving target when re-reviewing an article that's undergoing a lot of changes. –
859:
unsourced, and I'm not certain that the invitation of these job offers is important to an understanding of the the McGill School of Architecture.
1059:
1058:
which specifically notes a licensing fee for commercial use, which suggests to me that it is not public domain. I've opened a discussion at
474:
188:
1327:
809:
In 1939, Turner succeeded Traquair, who had completed a 26-year tenure as director of the School. At this time, the principal of McGill,
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282:
234:
547:
I removed the underlined part as this is stated a couple paragraphs down. At that point, I had it refer to him simply as "Turner" per
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17:
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links researchers and students from within the School of Architecture to other academic and professional researchers around the world
394:
194:
75:
830:
920:
The source says that renovations for this move began in 1987, not that the move occurred that year. The source also doesn't verify
310:
989:
There may be excessive detail about the workshop; the exact models of 3D printers seems like something that could become outdated.
1280:
Okay, I'm going to go over the article again. I'm not sure how long it'll take, but please hold off any major edits. Thanks. –
1051:
1039:
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Since the subject is the McGill School of Architecture, this can be assumed in many cases where the context is clear. e.g.:
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Was not able to verify this or any of the other information cited to the acsa reference, in the text of that webpage.
533:
272:
1008:
536:
and should stick to the facts as determined by reliable sources, stating them concisely and in a logical manner.
167:
this review – but will try to be available to provide a second review if you can get it into shape by mid-May. –
524:
This is not an exhaustive list of problems, but gives some examples of problems present throughout the article.
372:
358:
1047:
786:
750:
and needs to be paraphrased. The phrasing is also sloppily redundant: co-education education → co-education.
977:
I haven't gone through the whole thing, but I think this gives you an idea of what to look for in the rest.
869:
846:
1429:
328:
324:
810:
759:
Also, the citation should be moved up to the end of that phrase, as the source does not mention Wisnicki.
1071:
Although not part of the GA criteria, here are some other areas you might want to improve at some point:
1055:
992:
I think one would assume that the student store of an architecture school would sell drafting supplies.
1011:' Special Collections, and is a very important resource for architecture and urban planning students.
781:, a tradition that has been carried on annually to various destinations since as a credited course.
697:
links researchers and students from the School of Architecture to other researchers around the world
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In 1987, the School moved from the Engineering building to the Macdonald-Harrington Building.
341:
Some copyvio and close paraphrasing of sources; not enough citations to verify there is no OR
850:
729:
726:
658:
970:
747:
1022:
is informal. Be careful to avoid a memorial tone to that paragraph. Just state the facts.
854:
671:
819:
The citation only covers the very last part, that Cormier taught at the School 1919–20.
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1196:
906:
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In broad strokes (this should all wait until referencing and paraphrasing is done):
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U1, U2, etc., are not going to be universally understood to mean undergraduate years.
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Each entry on the list of alumni and faculty needs a citation. If it was a simple
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University of the Philippines Los Baños College of Forestry and Natural Resources
771:
with the smallest entering class of any accredited architecture school in Canada.
778:
548:
1026:
Students are always welcome to visit the Canadian Centre for Architecture (CCA)
896:
The School of Architecture is one of eight units reporting to the Dean of the
713:
technologies.") plus there is some promotional tone ("state-of-the-art", etc).
1147:
Following the retirement of Turner as director of the School of Architecture
1096:
889:
654:
1421:
1338:
that it's at or close to a GA, nominate it again. How does that sound? –
1076:
532:
The prose could be tightened up considerably. Articles are encyclopedic
1080:
413:
A bit promotional; be cautious when relying heavily on primary sources.
789:, taught this course at the School for over a decade starting in 1941.
641:
Close paraphrasing of source Highlights in the lead and 1970–present (
1129:
a tradition that has been carried on annually to various destinations
709:. FARMM includes an administrative and technical staff alongside of
936:
Some passing references to the fourth floor from ref UrbanPlanning.
624:
Section History uses the same wording as source CanadianArchitect (
1075:
FYI, some minor MOS fixes that I made: Ph.D. → PhD, B.Sc. → BSc (
1428:
I hope this isn't taking time away from your studies. Remember
1334:. (I was looking for departments or faculties of a university.)
1060:
Knowledge (XXG):Media copyright questions#Toronto Star Archives
909:
became the first female director of the School of Architecture.
1322:
I also thought it might help to look at some comparable GAs.
881:, I'm unable to verify anything to the reference Highlights.
487:
One image tagged as PD may be for educational purposes only.
955:
not seeing any of this in the reference CanadianArchitect.
829:
Wisnicki would also become the fourth female member of the
796:
https://www.mcgill.ca/architecture/programs/sketchingschool
730:
https://www.mcgill.ca/architecture/school/history/fifties
727:
https://www.mcgill.ca/architecture/school/history/forties
659:
https://www.mcgill.ca/architecture/programs/accreditation
777:
In 1921, the School had its first "sketching school" in
748:
https://www.mcgill.ca/architecture/school/history/turner
672:
https://www.mcgill.ca/architecture/resources/collection
134:
103:
948:
In 1989, the PhD in Architecture was introduced as an
705:
Needs more paraphrasing (Original: "organization that
886:
https://www.mcgill.ca/architecture/school/highlights
711:
state-of-the-art networking, simulation, and imaging
701:
state-of-the-art networking, simulation and imaging
733:https://www.mcgill.ca/architecture/resources/model
685:https://www.mcgill.ca/architecture/resources/farmm
450:and other media, where possible and appropriate.
872:consistently? Not Catherine Chard Wisnicki, etc.
716:Suggest: Founded in 2008 with funding from the
511:Failed without prejudice for substantial work.
1209:Great! Take your time, and happy editing! –
817:, who taught at the School from 1919 to 1920.
455:(images are tagged and non-free content have
8:
1105:American Institute of Architecture Students
1040:File:McGill School of Architecture logo.jpg
1017:whose life was cut short during World War I
845:and invited McGill Architecture graduates
725:A small amount of close paraphrasing from
30:
1297:- Alright, thank you! Holding off edits.
1191:Thank you for your comprehensive review,
890:https://www.mcgill.ca/architecture/school
1079:), Arts & Crafts → Arts and Crafts (
1044:Seven other images verified as PD or CC.
543:and would eventually become the director
1091:), from 1919-1920 → from 1919 to 1920 (
744:the door to co-ed education was opened
655:https://mcgill.ca/architecture/programs
61:
33:
1469:Talk:McGill School of Architecture/GA2
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585:changed to graduate planning program.
7:
1328:Willamette University College of Law
971:biographies of living persons policy
901:source says it's one of seven units.
541:Philip J. Turner joined the faculty
1372:Knowledge (XXG):Close paraphrasing
1317:Knowledge (XXG):Close paraphrasing
463:
317:
24:
18:Talk:McGill School of Architecture
831:Ontario Association of Architects
703:, and fabrication infrastructure.
632:). This needs to be paraphrased.
1375:correct any close paraphrasing.
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1005:Canadian Architecture Collection
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718:Canada Foundation for Innovation
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403:Fair representation without bias
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1420:The lead may be a little long.
1149:→ Following Turner's retirement
619:Referencing & verifiability
365:
303:
197:for what the criteria are, and
215:(prose, spelling, and grammar)
1:
1107:since it has its own article.
1054:with the license information
683:Section FARMM has copyvio of
1324:Thayer School of Engineering
833:, which was founded in 1889.
505:
481:
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857:to teach at his new school.
785:, a founding member of the
670:Some close paraphrasing of
568:as well as three crit rooms
1501:
1481:16:22, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
1463:15:41, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
1442:13:29, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
1385:04:50, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
1366:02:34, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
1348:22:53, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
1307:18:21, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
1290:18:17, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
1269:16:10, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
1251:06:19, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
1237:20:36, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
1219:15:00, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
1205:14:52, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
1186:14:33, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
1134:Wisnicki would also become
926:occupies the fourth floor.
385:Excessive detail in places
177:14:33, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
1370:Okay, I have looked over
1176:questions or comments. –
1048:File:Raymond Moriyama.jpg
884:I think I was looking at
161:16:05, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
1117:which still remain today
924:School of Urban Planning
1315:You might want to read
1038:Fair use rationale for
877:The paragraph starting
870:Catherine Mary Wisnicki
868:Can we please refer to
847:Catherine Mary Wisnicki
208:reasonably well written
1067:Other areas to improve
898:Faculty of Engineering
811:Lewis Williams Douglas
746:This is directly from
201:for what they are not)
912:sources confirm such.
570:What is a crit room?
444:It is illustrated by
395:neutral point of view
350:broad in its coverage
1007:(CAC) is one of the
1430:there's no deadline
1083:), H.E. Shorey → H.
981:Broad & focused
905:In 2011, Professor
865:moved to footnote.
457:fair use rationales
1154:General discussion
428:No edit wars, etc.
268:factually accurate
1136:→ Wisnicki became
1028:promotional tone.
475:suitable captions
283:reference section
89:
88:
1492:
1279:
1141:
1140:
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1123:
1112:
1111:
1086:
1050:– the source is
1009:McGill Libraries
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851:Peter Oberlander
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297:reliable sources
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111:
43:Copyvio detector
31:
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855:Arthur Erickson
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699:, and contains
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581:
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520:Review comments
471:appropriate use
392:It follows the
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966:set-index list
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914:
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907:Annmarie Adams
902:
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815:Ernest Cormier
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787:Group of Seven
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117:Article talk
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81:Instructions
1087:E. Shorey (
803:mentioned).
779:Quebec City
549:MOS:SURNAME
239:word choice
104:visual edit
1413:difficult.
1085:
997:Neutrality
329:plagiarism
273:verifiable
48:Authorship
34:GA toolbox
1455:Jonahrapp
1377:Jonahrapp
1358:Jonahrapp
1299:Jonahrapp
1276:Jonahrapp
1261:Jonahrapp
1255:Alright,
1243:Jonahrapp
1229:Jonahrapp
1197:Jonahrapp
1097:MOS:SLASH
1020:cut short
576:explained
534:summaries
501:Pass/Fail
182:Criterion
144:Reviewer:
71:Templates
62:Reviewing
27:GA Review
1473:Reidgreg
1451:Reidgreg
1434:Reidgreg
1422:MOS:LEAD
1409:section.
1354:Reidgreg
1340:Reidgreg
1312:article.
1295:Reidgreg
1282:Reidgreg
1257:Reidgreg
1211:Reidgreg
1178:Reidgreg
1077:MOS:ABBR
800:supports
169:Reidgreg
157:contribs
147:Reidgreg
76:Criteria
1099:issues.
1081:MOS:AMP
961:sourced
879:In 1970
626:copyvio
495:Overall
373:focused
325:copyvio
243:fiction
127:history
108:history
94:Article
953:Canada
950:ad hoc
756:fixed
689:Earwig
667:waived
643:Earwig
628:, see
590:Layout
555:table.
447:images
422:stable
420:It is
397:policy
348:It is
266:It is
245:, and
235:layout
206:It is
191:review
1223:Hey,
1161:wrong
1033:Media
933:done
564:fixed
528:Prose
473:with
247:lists
193:(see
136:Watch
16:<
1477:talk
1459:talk
1449:Hi,
1438:talk
1381:talk
1362:talk
1344:talk
1330:and
1303:talk
1286:talk
1265:talk
1247:talk
1233:talk
1215:talk
1201:talk
1182:talk
1142:done
1125:done
1113:done
1056:here
1052:here
1003:The
942:done
922:The
853:and
841:done
825:done
765:done
740:done
680:done
657:and
651:done
638:done
630:here
614:done
605:done
327:and
270:and
231:lead
229:for
199:here
195:here
173:talk
151:talk
123:edit
100:edit
1352:Hi
645:).
227:MoS
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333::
321:d
315::
311:OR
307:c
301::
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287::
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251::
241:,
237:,
233:,
223:b
217::
213:a
210:.
189:GA
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