1218:(1443-1525) was an Albanian scholar, soldier and Catholic priest. His foremost work is considerered to be Comentario de le cose de' Turchi, et del S. Georgio Scanderbeg, principe d' Epyro, a biography of the national hero of Albania Skanderbeg. The details on this battle (and others also) are on Frengu and the contemporary sources. The generic facts on these battles you can find in later Scanderbeg biographers (eg Noli 1947 p.65) but the later biographers of XXth century were not interested in describing single battles, only in Scanderbeg activity in general, so if you want a description of battle in this case you should go for primary sources, those who were written immediately after the events such as Frengu, Barleti, Becikemi, Venetian reports etc.
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this, he ordered for his prisoners to be put under guard and to be treated properly. The men were freed in the end, but Hamza and his staff were ransomed for 13,000 ducats. Skanderbeg's magnanimity became known throughout
Albania and the Ottoman Empire to the point where many of his men gained much more respect for him as a warrior. Skanderbeg's intention in doing so was to show that he would not take advantage of the unfortunate and that he had enough confidence in his ability to let his enemies fight him again another day.
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victory that day. He ordered the retreat to be sounded, and for the next two days held a council of his generals to decide what should be done next. One immediate precaution was to guard the camp against a further surprise attack. A force was placed at the point where the original attack had taken place that afternoon, in the hope that
Scanderbeg would repeat his exploit and so be captured. Prince Mehmed stayed with them the whole of one night, but his âwild beastâ was equal to so :unsubtle a ruse.
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other metals from which the great guns were to be cast on the spot. And with these again a mass of crowbars, mattocks and pickaxes for undermining the walls. Each fighting man, and there may have been as many as 160,000 of them, brought with him provisions for several days so that he could feed himself on the march through the forests and mountains between
Macedonia and the Adriatic plains. The march began on 5th April 1450. So it's actually about the first siege of Krujë. Nothing about 1452.
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Hamza and his staff were captured in the battle. Fearing punitive measures, Hamza begged for mercy, arguing that he had only fought against
Skanderbeg since he had been ordered to. Skanderbeg responded in such a way that the Ottoman officers began to cry and he offered to have dinner with them. After
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The quote on p. 106: When spring arrived, the Sultan Murad II and his vast army moved westwards to destroy the âinexpugnable wallsâ of Kruja. With it went the new weapons, the marks of
Turkish technical superiority, the small artillery on the backs of the lunging camels and the supplies of brass and
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Hodgkinson's source and the following is written on pp. 109â110: During the second phase the Turks, as enthusiastic as when the first charge began, even tried to break through the gate with their lances. But the walls still held. Murad saw that he was losing men pointlessly, for there was no hope of
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is a link to the version of the article before your recent changes. The whole sections about the Battle of
Modrica and Battle of Meçad is written solely on the basis of primary sources (Franco or certain Francione (polyhedral figure who uses primary sources as reference, Aigest says "probably Frengu
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The image captions should relate the significance of the image itself directly to the article. The portrait for example should just identify who the person is, and the image of the fighting should identify if it was a painting of the battle. We rely on the text to explain directly what the situation
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I am concerned because
Francioni/Franco are used as source in many articles about Skanderbeg to support many details not usually known in case of medieval events. Is it possible to provide sources about the topic of this article which are works of historians?
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As far as I can tell, there is no section based entirely on a primary source. This article is not based entirely on primary sources so that point fails here. I could not find many secondary sources that dealt with the battles in much detail, except for
1766:, can you provide a quote from the Hodgkinson (p. 109) source? Also, would you happen to know the MOS concerning the military infobox template? Would Mehmed II be listed, even if he were not there in person, since he presumably planned the campaign?
1137:(a writer also worked as an actor and director, theater, essayist and painter who is from the artistic point of view influenced by Hacker Art, art, Gothic Revival and the so-called cyber-culture) the only sources for the above mentioned text?--
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I really hope that you will find some reliable secondary sources about this very important campaign which included about 40,000 soldiers and ended with almost 10,000 casualties. Maybe you support Aigest's entertaining explanation that
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with proper interpretation of primary sources by professional historians (not by polyhedral figures like
Francione). Until then the sections about the battles ( Battle of Modrica and Battle of Meçad should be marked with appropriate
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A primary source may only be used on
Knowledge (XXG) to make straightforward, descriptive statements that any educated person, with access to the source but without specialist knowledge, will be able to verify are supported by the
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908:"The European powers were locked in internal conflicts: e.g. Venice at war with Milan, Naples at war with Genoa and Florence." - you should also link to these conflicts so the reader can go to them for more info on the conflicts.
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by works of Franco and
Francione who were/are not historians. This was obviously important battle with more than 40.000 soldiers involved and should be supported with reliable sources written by historians. Above mentioned
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In this case there is a reason for additional concern about basing all information about the battles in this article solely on primary sources: many of the primary sources about Skanderbeg were proven to be forged (by
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Incorrect. Barleti was forger and Biemi forged primary source. Even if they were not forgers but saints, we should follow wikipedia polices instead of evaluating material found in medieval primary sources.--
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The discussants drew attention to the title of the article: in publications this era of fighting is called an uprising, and the actions of the sultan are called retaliation. We assess that the article
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902:"Alfonso created similar alliances with John Musachi, George Stres Balsha, Muzaka Thopia, Peter Himariot, and Simon Zenevishi." - what is the significance of these people. Specify it in the article.
1236:(a writer also worked as an actor and director, theater, essayist and painter who is from the artistic point of view influenced by Hacker Art, art, Gothic Revival and the so-called cyber-culture).
896:"Republic of Venice played the usual diplomatic game of turning Skanderbeg's allies against him in order to weaken Alfonso's influence." - editorializing. Please word this in a more neutral way.
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Pitcher states Mehmed II lost both campaigns during the years 1466 and 1467. Pitcher makes no mention of a previous Albanian campaign, stating that Mehmed II's first campaign was in 1466.
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What is the problem with following the above mentioned request of WP:OR and supporting the material about the battles of this campaign with reliable secondary sources? Are there any? --
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899:"Skanderbeg realized that if Mehmed struck now, he would be in great difficulty since he lacked the resources and the support." - the resources and support to do what? Please specify.
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in doing so was to show that he would not take advantage of the unfortunate and that he had enough confidence in his ability to let his enemies fight him again another day.
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and his work was published in a respectable journal on southeastern European studies. Meanwhile, I am in the process of searching to find more sources for that section.--
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Francione is a XX-XXI century polyhedral figure who has written a study on Scanderbeg. You should see which sources he uses as reference, probably Frengu or Barletius.
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Ending August (1542) Mehmed II was having the Rumeli hisar built. Granted he was not needed there the entire time, nor does it imply he was there the entire time.
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Skanderbeg's magnanimity became known throughout Albania and the Ottoman Empire to the point where many of his men gained much more respect for him as a warrior.
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The article is factually inaccurate regarding one of two combatants. League of Lezhë fell apart in 1450, two years before events described in this article.--
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We do not understand why the author, who declares knowledge of Albanian, did not publish the article in the Albanian language version of Knowledge (XXG)?
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Barleti was not a forger, Biemi (18th century) is not a primary source and anyway they are not used here. If you find a synth on Frengu work just say it.
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Don't forget that he was also a Slavist who studied philology and who specialized in "language, folklore and cultural history of the South Slavs".
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analyze, synthesize, interpret, or evaluate material found in a primary source yourself; instead, refer to reliable secondary sources that do so.
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or Barletius"). Was Alois Schmaus historian? Are you able to present any secondary source written by historian about those important battles? --
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Did you know ... that a series of diplomatic struggles between the major Mediterranean powers of the 15th century culminated in newly-crowned
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article, editors from the Polish version of Wiki noticed a number of irregularities and doubts about the actual use of declared sources.
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I think that this article is factually inaccurate regarding location. Infobox says it is eastern Albania. That is wrong because
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so as to become familiar with the guidelines. If you would like to participate, please join the project and help with our
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Thanks for taking the time to review this article! I tried to make all of the proper revisions. How do they look?--
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the
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1356:: According to the one of the core wikipedia policies we should not base all information about the battles of the
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I am sometimes tempted to believe that those Ottoman officers really cried because the way they were responded.
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I made a few tweaks to make sure the article is as neutral as possible. Take a look to see if they are correct.
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is incorrect. Many reliable works of the XXth and XXIst century historians are used as sources for battles of
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In the lead, several links are linked to more than once. A link should only be linked to on first reference.
594:. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
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From what I can see, the article needs an overhaul and then a GA reassessment. It needs to comply with the
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So the Hodkinson source is, as far as we can tell, not about 1452 and that particular Albanian campaign. --
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I pointed to the major portion of the two key sections about the Battles of Mecad and Battle of Modric are
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Any interpretation of primary source material requires a reliable secondary source for that interpretation.
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just sort out a few details above and this article should be good. Overall it's already very well written.
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We're saying that Hamza was ransomed for 10,000 once and then for 13,000. What's the correct amount? --
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2004:(the publication from 1539 has an ISBN number? How could the author use the publication from 1539?)
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August 28- 3 September, 1452 :Mehmed II marched his army to Constantinople and inspected its walls.
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In my above comments I clearly emphasized: The problem is when material added to the article is
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Probably? Do you want me to find sources for statements of other users? Let me remind you that
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1993:, vol. 8, Trofenik) is cited as the author of the periodical, but the title of his article in
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1315:...so if you want a description of battle in this case you should go for primary sources...?
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Hamza argued that "he had only fought against Skanderbeg since he had been ordered to." (?!)
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Hamza argued that "he had only fought against Skanderbeg since he had been ordered to." (?!)
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cannot be recognized on pl:wiki as GA, and we have grounds to believe that the article
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so as to become familiar with the guidelines. If you would like to participate, please
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1717:(one of the major battlefields described in this article) is actually in Macedonia.--
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Let me reply by reminding you what is also emphasized in the above mentioned policy:
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XXth and XXIst century historians...were not interested in describing single battles
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In this situation, we request that the distinction of GA on en:wiki be revised.
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Commentary on the cose of Turchi, et del S. Georgio Scanderbeg, principe d' Epyr
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Please improve this Section about Battle of Modrica/Battle of Meçad by adding
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Before I reply to your comment, I kindly remind you that my comment included
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The Siege and the Fall of Constantinople in 1453: Historiography, Topography
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The Siege and the Fall of Constantinople in 1453: Historiography, Topography
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The Siege and the Fall of Constantinople in 1453: Historiography, Topography
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During the discussion on awarding the Good Article distinction on pl:wiki (
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1535:(unindent) Antid, this is not the first time you brought this up and still
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The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material.
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I am wondering if the reviewer of this article's GA nomination knew about
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Skanderbeg responded in such a way that the Ottoman officers began to cry
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Skanderbeg responded in such a way that the Ottoman officers began to cry
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1986:) â does not provide sources for the information provided in the entry.
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Propozycje do Dobrych ArtykuĆĂłw/Pierwsza kampania Mehmeda II w Albanii
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The above mentioned paragraph inform the readers of this article how:
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All the details about the battles of Modrica and Mecad are supported
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its actually 10,000 for him and 3,000 for his staff. ill fix this.--
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Dates need to be consistent with either "day month" or "month day."
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is, so you don't need to add the extra info in the image captions.
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In an attempt to locate Mehmed II's actual location in 1452:
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Knowledge (XXG) Did you know articles that are good articles
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Please put the book references into {{cite book}} templates.
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I agree too. I find that the prose is all over the place.
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One paragraph from the (existing version of the) article:
388:, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
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BeitrĂ€ge zur Kenntnis SĂŒdosteuropas und des Nahen Orients
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Early October 1452: Mehmed II raided the despot of Morea.
1539:. And for the third time, WP:OR on primary sources says
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A fact from this article appeared on Knowledge (XXG)'s
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392:. If you are new to editing Knowledge (XXG) visit the
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This Section about Battle of Modrica/Battle of Meçad
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Ed(the reviewer) has written 85 GAs, so he does know
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Philippides, Marios; Hanak, Walter K., eds. (2016).
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Philippides, Marios; Hanak, Walter K., eds. (2016).
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Philippides, Marios; Hanak, Walter K., eds. (2016).
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the topic is treated in an obviously non-neutral way
1659:Alois Schmaus was a Balkanolog and a member of the
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378:, an attempt to co-ordinate articles relating to
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1360:solely on primary sources and instead we should
1792:1467: Mehmed II lost this campaign into Albania
1789:1466: Mehmed II lost this campaign into Albania
1190:The article completely lacks reliable sources.
1122:which says something about the situation when
88:If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
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2165:An Historical Geography of the Ottoman Empire
2150:An Historical Geography of the Ottoman Empire
2135:An Historical Geography of the Ottoman Empire
2120:An Historical Geography of the Ottoman Empire
2037:After seeing this page, I can personally say:
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1239:Is Gennaro Francione contemporary source?
1982:Nolli's book (Noli, Fan Stilian (1947),
588:This article is within the scope of the
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1984:George Castroiti Scanderbeg (1405â1468)
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1094:"offered to have dinner with them."
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218:It is of interest to the following
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1853:Agreed. This article is a mess. --
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410:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Kosovo
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1566:instead to focus on the provided
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522:This article is supported by
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67:Mehmed II's Albanian campaign
40:. Please add comments to the
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935:It is broad in its coverage:
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1803:, thanks to StephenMacky1:
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1605:on primary source (Franco).
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1293:I find Aigest's claim that
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2019:probably is a hoax.
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2107:. Routledge. p. 67.
2092:. Routledge. p. 67.
2077:. Routledge. p. 67.
1665:Gaius Claudius Nero
1629:Gaius Claudius Nero
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1016:Gaius Claudius Nero
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169:November 17, 2010
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43:reassessment page
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774:Copyvio detector
762:
655:(c. 500âpresent)
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605:Military history
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553:Military history
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495:Former countries
490:join the project
479:
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459:Former countries
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418:
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398:join the project
364:
357:
356:
351:
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336:
306:
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304:Albania articles
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2122:. Brill. p. 88.
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1890:GA Reassessment
1759:
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1732:League of Lezhë
1711:
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1400:primary sources
1388:
1216:Dhimitër Frëngu
1158:
1131:Franco Demetrio
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949:It follows the
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1751:Find Mehmed II
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784:External links
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1625:Alois Schmaus
1621:
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967:It is stable:
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162:Did you know?
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1928:Article talk
1927:
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1885:
1801:my talk page
1798:
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1754:
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1570:grounded in
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812:Instructions
726:
589:
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431:
394:welcome page
386:project page
379:
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286:welcome page
278:project page
271:
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220:WikiProjects
183:
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129:
89:
87:
83:please do so
71:
70:
66:
48:
41:
27:
1997:is missing.
1915:visual edit
1855:Kansas Bear
1821:Kansas Bear
1092:Skanderbeg
826:transcluded
372:is part of
2180:Categories
2061:References
1427:newspapers
1396:references
1354:Conclusion
1299:Skanderbeg
1059:Unresolved
919:verifiable
779:Authorship
765:GA toolbox
402:open tasks
390:discussion
290:open tasks
282:discussion
166:column on
77:under the
1568:arguments
1286:WP:BURDEN
838:Reviewer:
802:Templates
793:Reviewing
758:GA Review
181:ordering
179:Mehmed II
156:Main Page
2024:Jacek555
1709:Location
1599:entirely
1579:entirely
883:Comments
807:Criteria
729:Sulmuesi
570:Medieval
562:European
210:GA-class
91:reassess
2044:Setergh
1938:history
1919:history
1905:Article
1762:Truth t
1542:source.
1439:scholar
1344:Barleti
1008:On Hold
1001:Overall
991:Comment
953:policy:
566:Ottoman
434:on the
322:on the
295:Albania
273:Albania
239:Albania
158:in the
114:Process
1715:ModriÄ
1601:based
1587:Do not
1494:Aigest
1348:Biemmi
1327:Do not
1322:Do not
1272:Aigest
1220:Aigest
983:images
861:review
558:Balkan
407:Kosovo
381:Kosovo
347:Kosovo
216:scale.
136:Listed
117:Result
1947:Watch
1799:From
1685:"? --
1445:JSTOR
1433:books
1350:...).
863:(see
828:from
2048:talk
2028:talk
1934:edit
1911:edit
1873:talk
1859:talk
1845:talk
1825:talk
1742:talk
1723:talk
1691:talk
1669:talk
1651:talk
1642:Here
1633:talk
1614:talk
1603:only
1589:base
1550:talk
1512:talk
1498:talk
1484:talk
1421:news
1365:tag:
1329:base
1304:The
1276:talk
1262:talk
1224:talk
1199:talk
1175:only
1154:much
1143:talk
1129:Are
1020:talk
973:Pass
959:Pass
941:Pass
927:Pass
869:here
865:here
748:talk
733:talk
111:Date
28:The
1398:to
1032:Ed!
844:Ed!
426:Mid
314:Mid
2182::
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1957:âą
1951:âą
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1564:me
1552:)
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96:.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
