Talk:Melungeon/Archive 2

2047:

If my reference is NOT allowed then all the other references that was taken from my good friend JACK GOINS has to be removed. This Collins and Gibson that is mentioned on the Melungeon wiki page is my direct blood line. Please respect that or do not edit it anymore. The first recorded record of the mentioned Collins line was that they was native americans....John Collins was a indian being sold for stealing pigs in Virgina (Saponi indian to be exact), that is word for word what the virgina court records state. My father looks 100 percent native american and that is exactly how all the other ancestors look following the William and John Collins line all the way back to louisa county VA. I have photos of both of these direct lines from today all the way back to the 1800's....all native american.....court records from the early 1700's all the way to current time list these 2 lines as native american...John and William collins was the brother to Thomas Collins......there has never been a single document or record which shows african heritage to John nor William's line....court records state they was native american and census records list them as mulatto or white....there was no single listing for native americans on census records so native americans was listed as mulatto or free person of color on census records.....anyone NOT white was listed on census records as free person of color. In fact the grandson of William Collins went to a native american school and became one of the most famous preachers in NC and SC..his name was Drury Dobbins. There is 11 guion miller applications from 1898 which all state drury Dobbins was native american.....the applications was filled by the Dobbins and hollifield families. Respect my family and stop attempting to steal my ancestor's native american heritage......other wise it is going to appear to be racism and I will be forced to have my lawyer contact the owner of Knowledge and inform the Owner himself of this matter, I am pretty sure since you currently have a listing on your page about "african american" then that will help prove the fact that this is starting to look like racism. I know Jack Goins personally and he even says the references to his stuff has been misused on the Melungeon page to a point to only reflect African american and to not use any of his Native american research...this is proved by how you removed my reference source to Jack Goins' official records on my Collins and gibson family....you removed it stateing it is not sourced but yet you keep Jack Goins other sources on the page. Does not look good on your part and I'm sure my Lawyer (who is also from this Collins and Gibson line) would defiently be able to use it in court.

2157:

your saying that virginia courts and other officials just decided to name people they had no blood realtion to as Indian so these families could evade...come on now...whats in the court records clearly shows "Indian" is what the court themselfs labeled them. "indians being sold for stealing hogs".......maybe your also not aware that indians was the first slaves in america...and during the 1700's it was common to find indians working on plantations and inside the houses of plantations as slaves. Thats another interesting point you forget to add huh. Knowledge clearly states theories are not to be used when editing pages.....so why post a "theory" that has no documentation to back it up...and then remove Evidence which DOES have documentation to back it up. So until you come up with a government document that states John, Thomas, or William Collins of Louisa county and Orange county VA was African....then sorry your pushing theories and that is frowned upon by Knowledge and is grounds for removal. And stateing John collins' descendants' dna did not show Indian...too bad you forgot to add that the John collins line that was tested was from the Josiah collins line which is from the Collins plantation of NC which has been proven by historical societies working with the Collins plantation to have NOT been the same John Collins which was in Orange county and Louisa county VA. Now since after looking at your talk page...I see mostly topics on AFRICAN AMERICAN stuff......so now you would look pretty silly if you was trying to sell a book on your theory which has no legally usable documentation to back it up...then up walks the family you wrote your book on...and that family looks 100 percent native american.

983:

practice, they concentrate their own genes in this small pool. Whatever strains they inherited become very obvious. Many people think that Mediaeval European interbreeding was limited, but it was not. Depending on the types of connections one had, they may have intermarried internationally. This all trickles down from the top. I know that through certain ancestors of mine in England, they descended from Spaniards, Italians and even Greeks. This is because nationalism and isolationism was a product of the Protestant Reformation, which cut the largely Nordic countries off from Southern Europe. Western Europe as a whole was already cut off from Eastern Europe, because of the Turks. The other important thing is though, the degree of intermarriage between "White Christians" and "Non-White Pagans". This happened in Spain for sure and was a contributing factor in the Spanish Inquisition. These all seem to be mental blocks about race, textured by religious distinctions way back when. Surely, the Turks are not "pure White", but the Moorish and otherwise native Mediterranean genetic composition from African and Arab shores is already within all Europeans by the time of Charlemagne. After all, we hearken to the Greeks, Romans and our religion is based upon Judaism. It would be a serious problem to contest the racial flow between the Nile and Aegean, as well as that between West Africa and the Pillars of Hercules. Besides, just because Whites have this blood in them, doesn't make them non-White. This article is extremely

2097:

proven by hisorical societies of NC to not be related to the Thomas, John, or William collins which came into Orange county, NC from Louisa and Orange counties VA. The plantations collins are from the Josiah line which this family had Collins family that was brought from Africa to their plantation which has been proven thru official records. It has also been proven thru VA court records which can be found at the National archives that the Thomas, William, and John collins of Louisa and Orange county was Indians. the Virginia court records for VA further states that John Collins was a "indian being bought at the court house for stealing hogs". It is also proven that Thomas Collins' line went into Newman's ridge Tenn, however John and william Collins left North Carolina. It has also been proven thru government records of the USA that William Collins of Louisa and Orange county Va's grandson Drury Dobbins received his schooling from the Indian schools. And thru old South Carolina news paper articles on Reverned Drury Dobbins during the 1800's that he was Native Amercan and was the grandson of William collins of Louisa and Orange county VA.

426:

no longer living. What's happened, though (as you know), is that the same families of people who may have tried to hide their identities (as best they could in light of their physical appearance) have reclaimed and celebrated their heritage, one could say retroactively. I hope you won't argue that we shouldn't include a photo of living Melungeons or a photo of deceased Melungeons, for the same reason that it's something to be ashamed of. Because for many people today that isn't the case any more; in fact, that photo would not have been shared if Arch's descendant hadn't been interested in telling her family's story. You and I and some of the other editors may have traveled down to the mountains and seen what Melungeons look like, but most of our readers have not, and the photo is very helpful. If you can find a superior photo, that would be good, but for now this one should work to give people an idea of their appearance (as described in the article).

2314:

Chowan (pronounced Show-an)along with neighboring tribes brought a lawsuit against the U.S. The ending resulted of the first reservation called Bennett reservation. North Carolina, as a state, didn't want the natives in their state along with others if they can legal do this. So the Chowan's by legal definition based on population ceased to be a tribe. North Carolina passed legislation to legal define the Chowans as FREE PEOPLE OF COLOR. This way they no longer have to legally have to honor the U.S. treaty and the Chowans would no longer be taxed as Indians but Colored. This would make them non-citizens with NO legal rights of their own to sue North Carolina. Now some of the Jones family members did married free slaves before this legal action. So the Jones/Bennetts/Johnsons/Goins and others were a large family with cousins marrying into a mix race marriages including free slaves.

2882:"Granville Goins was realy James Granville Goins. His father was Shadrack Goins from Granger Co, Tennessee. There are so many Shadracks in the Goins family that i am not sure that the Shadrack is the old Shadrack Goins ,from Patrick Co, Va. He died in Granger Co, and his will was probated in Patrick Co, Va. He was the father of 21 children,probly from more than one wife. Granville and Mary (Polly) had around 13 children. Mahalie Jane,James L.,Rachael,Betsy Jane, Mary, William,Martha,Noah,Dotson,John,Roland,Nancy,Frances. James L married a Melvina Goins( probly a cousin) Rachael married a Josh Jones,and Dotson married a Erelda Goins(probly another cousin) Lots of the early Goins married cousins,cause they wonted to keep the blood pure. That was their reasonning then. I have the dates of deaths of Granville and Mary Goins children. Some died in Indian Terriotry in Okahoma." 627:

which never reared its ugly head until the 1960s Hippies. Most of it seems to be the brainchild of one Brent Kennedy, Scotch-Irish to the bone by the way. So he thinks he is some "wise man" or "brave" in romance novels, instead of white trash like his hillbilly neighbors. Let him and his cult followers dream about becoming Mexicans and let Kenny Chesney sing about popping open a cold one in Mexico. Stop the speculations now. How influential was this subject until the internet was invented? Puhleeze. We're all Cherokee--bah. Let me become my forefathers' victims by stealing the identity of those fallen; truly wiping them out for good. I'm sure my ancestors' heroes like Andrew Jackson (another Scotch-Irishman BTW) would be proud. This is one big cycle of Southern ignorance, coverups and self-delusions. See

2892:

unrelated to any families in hancock and hawkins county. There is no record showing them going back to hancock or hawkins county. The picture in question appears to have different views on who it really is. Defiently not from hancock or hawkins county though. There is a question to who the picture actually came from. a unnamed person passed it to Barbara goins and she apprently passed it onto the internet. No one seems to have called anyone in graysville Tenn area melungeons till just recently. So I figure a better suggestion for the Melungeon picture to be the one from the newspaper of Calloway Collins (the school teacher who was put in the newspaper in 1890 and confirmed to be melungeon and living on newman's ridge, and whose desendants was in nearly every Genetic study since 1969).

2875:"In Graysville, the Melungeons are fully accepted and participate fully in all phases of community life. When schools were segregated, their children attended white schools without question. A less tolerant attitude was reported by an earlier observer by Edward T. Price who wrote: 'The Melungeons here are characterized by a single surname, Goins, though several others have been acquired, apparently by intermarriage with the Goinses. The group consists mostly of miners and farm laborers and forms 30 or 40 percent of the population of the town. The Graysville Melungeons apparently feel no special kinship with other Melungeon groups in the state. When asked directly if they had relatives in the Hancock-Hawkins County area, most responded that they did not. " 1933:

documentation. The source goes on to say that the Collins "were living as Indians" in VA. That was just Heinegg's point, that these free families of color moved to the frontier and "identified as Indian" to evade some of the racial strictures of the day. The later documentation cited in the angelfire source shows that Collins people were in areas where Heinegg has also shown them. The reference to an 1890 interview is also relying on a family's oral tradition, but it is also consistent with their "choosing to identify as Indians", rather than being descended from them. It's not appropriate to have family oral history mixed in with the scholarly research of Heinegg and Marce. The Collins family could participate in Jack Goins'

202:

Mediterranean: from Minoan Greeks to the Basques, the Moriscos (Arabic-Spanish Muslims) sent by the Spanish in the mid 1500's "to die" in the Americas to being illegitimate children of Malaysian or Filipino mistresses, and the Galicians could been the ancestral founders of the Cherokee, and even with the Croatians of the Balkans to explain the unusual similar namesake: Croatan with the word "Croatian" and the lost colony of Roanoke Island legend. Nobody really knows for sure or are uncertain about the ethnoracial origins of the Melungeons, except the well-accepted theory of them being a local cultural "tri-racial" population of mixed white, black and Native Americans whose presence goes back four centuries. +

2840:"From the Guion Miller Roll application of Albert Goins #10977: Albert Goins b. 1878 in James Co., TN parents: James Goins d. 1887 and Melvina Goins d. 1880. fathers parents: Granville b. in N.C. and Polly Goins. mothers parents: Martin and Susan Goins. brothers & sisters: Mollie Ervin b. don't know, Elijah Goins b. 1873, Arch Goins b. 1874, Charles Goins b. 1875 aunts & uncles from fathers side: Noah Goins -died many years ago, Dotson Goins - died many years ago, Roland Goins -died many years ago, Mahala Goins - died many years ago, Nancy Goins - died many years ago. My great grandfather was named Shade Goins said to be full blood Cherokee Indian. dated October 9, 1907" 2885:"I found Granville in 1880 census in James Co, Tn.Age 72.Married at that time to Louiza(age 46). Also living with him was his grandson Benjamin age 18.Benjamin was the son of his daughter, Rachel.I also found his grave at Mt Vernon Cemetary,Hamilton Co, Tn.He died June 20,1889.I thought at first, that my grandfather Charles A. was the son of James L. but he was the son of Martha,daughter of Granville, and Mary(Polly).James L. was his uncle.I have sent for his application on the Guion Miller Roll, so hopefully I will be able to find his father.The 1880 census lists Granville born in SC. and his father in Va." 748:

Southern liberal Whites felt ostracized for not agreeing with the dominant racial customs of their region. They watched in horror as the KKK tore apart those non-whites and felt disturbed to be expected to conform to the hatred. So, they create their own community that looks good to Northern liberal politicians. This doesn't look legit at all. You still have not responded to the charges about how it is possible for interracial children to constitute an ethnicity of their own, anymore than a micronation or online community to be seriously taken as a realistic political entity.

1237:

discovered that most of the families of free people of color in colonial VA were in fact descended from unions/marriages between white women (indentured servant or free) and African men (indentured servant, free or slave), not white plantation owners and slave women. This reflected the fluid nature of relationships among the working classes before slavery's lines had hardened. He also was able to demonstrate how descendants of these families migrated to frontier regions in VA, NC and SC, as the article points out. People have to read this article.--

2540:

County Court, when he was one of a party charged in the mid-18th century. They believe John Collins was one of Thomas' sons or brothers. They note also that Native American-European people were classified as mulatto in some early records, as were European-African mixed-race people. Because of that they believe some accounts of their origins are flawed. They believe there likely was not any intermarriage of Collins family members with African Americans until after Collins' descendants migrated from Virginia to North Carolina.

1655:

not mysterious. The historical records say who they are; our people have stated who we are in the past and the present,and the evidence is very clear. If you want a real entry on this page that tells the truth, go get the court records, tax lists, military records, land records, historical accounts, census records and transcribe them word for word on this page for everyone to see for themselves. All of this exotic mumbo jumbo is an attempt to cover Native American Indian heritage. It has been that way since the early 1800's.

2752:

Here, the Melungeons interact in all phases of community life,and exogamy with local Whites is common practice.- Goins- and the term "Melungeon" is not used by the people or by their neighbors. Recent field observations of the Graysville Melungeons differ in no way from that of any other small southern Appalachian community. In Tennessee, public attention has usually focused on the Melungeon communities of the upper East Tennessee. In particular, Hancock and Hawkins Counties are usually regarded as the Melungeon homeland."

2010:

the Collins descendant refers to Dromgoole's 1890 book. It was too confusing just to revert it (because of other edits), but now the section on Heinegg and DeMarce deals with their research alone. Also, everyone should note that the DNA Melungeon Project that Jack Goins is coordinating (last paragraph in this article) has done some testing of one or more people with Collins surname, and the evidence shows only European and sub-Saharan African descent. This is consistent with the research by Heinegg and DeMarce.--

2864:"Charles (Charley's) father was James L. Goins. His mother Melvina Goins. (MAIDEN) James L.Goins' father was Granville Goins and his mother was Mary (Polly) Goins. According to the Guion Miller Roll applications of Albert ( Charleys brother) AND Archie Goins (also Charleys brother) His father, (Granville) Was Shade (Shadrack Goins Jr.) from Patrick Co. Virginia. I also have the will of HIS father Shadrack Gowen from Virginia. Sorry its taken so long to respond, but just saw your post. Take care cuz, Terri" 1438:

the verb "is" and its complement ("a group that has "). Replacement of this construction by a simple pair of parenthesis, and the removal of "that is", eliminate the run-on sentence and the questionable comma, while shortening the sentence, maintaining the meaning, and increasing clarity (especially for readers unfamiliar with the ", that is, " construction, who may view the "that" as a relative pronoun starting a relative clause, rather than a demonstrative pronoun introducing an independent clause).

2468:, external links should not be within the body of the article except when used within "ref" tags - while the source for the material could easily be inserted within ref tags once a version with clear copyright can be found - the links to images should not be reinserted within the body of the text. If the copyright holder permits it, the images could be uploaded to the Mediawiki commons; or if the source has a page showing all of the photos, they could be linked from the External Links section. --- 1226:(Carroll & Graf, 2007) argues that the original Melungeons were not the offspring of white southern plantation owners and black slaves, but were instead the offspring of slaves whose master's ship was attacked by two pirate vessels that eventually transported 60 or so Africans to Virginia. He claims that these Africans arrived in Jamestown in 1619. Is this theory worth presenting in the article? I'm just curious why it isn't mentioned here. Is Hashaw not considered a good source? 31: 2464:. Specifically, the AngelFire source that is being inserted has three issues: first, it's self-published personal webpage. Second, claims to be written by Jack Goins, while he is a reliable source - his material is at jgoins.com. The AngelFire page is likely a copyright violation if copied from that source as there is no evidence that it was copied legally - the original should be found a jgoins.com and that used as the ref. Third, per 1104: 1063: 1022: 888: 795: 728: 672: 2704:

busy with his class and unconcious that he was “being tuk fur a pictur.”" "There are but three names among them - real Malungeon names - Collins, Mullins, Gorvens. Lately the name of Gibbins has found a way among them, but the first three are their real names. They distinguish each other in a most novel manner. For instance, Calloway Collins’ wife is Ann Calloway, his daughter is Dorous Calloway, and his son is Jim Calloway."

858:

not a subject that just emerged in the last few years or due to the Internet, as you implied earlier. I don't believe the Manson Family would constitute an ethnic group or identity in the same way; bad example there. Yes, cities have lots of racial intermixing but in Appalachia, once the indigenous people had been cleared out, the strongly Middle Eastern-looking Melungeons were an anomaly, and caused a lot of speculation.

2601:

list Asa's name as "ach" "achi" and "arch". This picture mysterious started floating around the internet back around the 2002's yet to this day the picture remains a mystery on the Melungeon message boards and websites. If his family moved to hamiliton county in 1843 from Georgia then there is no way this man is any part of the Melungeons. There is no mention of this man in any historical records as a Melungeon either.

2150:

122:

were abandoned by Spain. It is more credible to say that this people started from an socially isolated individuals abandoned by Spain rather than trying to propose any other ancestry to this people. They were abandoned like isleños were abandoned in Louisiana and Texas. Probably they were isleños as me. The nickname melungeon pointed out their portuguese related origin.--

2759:"A GROUP of the Goins family at Graysville near the Rhea County line had a Melungeon background. Asa “Acy” Goins married Sara Bolden and they had a large family in the Brown Rock section. Acy was one of the sons of Jackson and Jennie Goins, who moved to Hamilton County from Georgia about 1843." Early Hamilton Settlers by John Wilson 2597:"A GROUP of the Goins family at Graysville near the Rhea County line had a Melungeon background. Asa “Acy” Goins married Sara Bolden and they had a large family in the Brown Rock section. Acy was one of the sons of Jackson and Jennie Goins, who moved to Hamilton County from Georgia about 1843." Early Hamilton Settlers by John Wilson 2918: 2891:

It appears people list Arch Goins' grandfather as being born in nc, sc, and virginia. 1880 census record shows South Carolina. These people are only Goins with no marriages to any of the Melungeon families, None of these people are in any of the Melungeon Genetic studies. They have stated they are

2766:

This newspaper article goes on to single out each Goins family, only one group of the Goins was given the Melungeon name in the article, Asa/Ach/Arch Goins. The newspaper article says His parents moved to Hamilton from Georgia in 1843, completely different than the other Goins people. This not only

2751:

from Tennessee Anthropologist, Vol IV, No. 1, 1979 " Census records and other archival sources indicate that prior to coming to Hamilton County they had lived in Virginia and North Carolina. The racist discrimination common in Hancock County and in other Melungeon communities is absent in Graysville.

2401:

A type of defamation. Slander is an untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person's reputation or standing in the community. Because slander is a tort (a civil wrong), the injured person can bring a lawsuit against the person who made the false statement. If the statement is

2322:

The remaining Chowans were forced to decide to legally join with neighboring tribes. Meherrin, Pee-Dee, Tuscora, and Eastern Cherokee tribal chiefs voted to allow the merger and sent the votes to the U.S. to legalize the merger by votes in congress. This is one way how the Cherokee tribe grew to such

2305:

from England, usually as indentured servants), and varied others including mixed races. The common denominator was skin darker than Northern Europeans. The term "colored" generated from this catagorization, to mainly indicated those of African ancestry, but to include any person of darker complexion.

2304:

The term "Free Persons of Colour" first appeared during colonial times (1600-1800s). It was applied to a variety of ethnic people, to include Black, Native American, Portuguese, Sephardic Jews, Greeks, Romanians, Moors, Arabs, Asiatic Indians* and Pakistanis* (*who were here as early as the mid 1600s

2149:

The material interjected on the Collins family refers to a source on angelfire that discusses oral family tradition, that an ancestor was "probably Saponi Indian", not historic documentation in the form of records that a specific individual was of the Saponi, or any other, tribe. This is not historic

2046:

Your past revert to my Direct family lines of the Collins and Gibson families is unacceptable. I have added a reference link which lists many sources and was wrote by my good friend and Melungeon researcher JACK GOINS....this is clearly stated along with the email to Jack Goins on the reference link.

1952:

I read the article again and see that one or more Melungeons with the surname Collins have completed the DNA testing and found that their ancestry was specifically European and sub-Saharan African, which is consistent with Heinegg's research, and the paragraph as it appeared before the insertions by

1932:

1476:

The point about Melungeons is that, while they may partake of, adopt, and (somewhat) even descend from, the culture, the ethnicity, of any human group on Earth, they are genetically distinct ("to some degree"): they have some genetic/racial distinctions that differentiate them from the more 'plainly'

764:

Those are some good points. It's true that not all Europeans look alike. But the individuals who were referred to as Melungeons (specifically the group from East Tennessee) had a specific origin, and that is covered in the article. Fanciful stories enter into the picture, most probably without any

626:

Where's the balance in this article? It is totally in favor of all assertions made, with no opposing views. Knowledge is not to endorse sides. Melungeon appears to be a miniscule underground political movement exaggerated to resemble the Meztiso population of Mexicans and other "Hispanics", all of

605:

This is not the way to prove ancestry. The name does not appear on any of the lists referred to in this article. Anyway, the way to do research is to start with the most recent individuals and dates of births, marriages, deaths, etc., then work backward through documented records, so you can see the

425:

The previous argument against including any kind of photo in this article (in earlier discussion, maybe before you began editing here) was that we should not include photos of living persons because some editors believed that would be in bad taste. The suggestion was to find photos of people who are

1988:

Someone else is going to have to deal with this editor. He added back his material in the middle of the Heinegg-DeMarce section for the third time; he does not use this article's Talk page and apparently has not read our discussions here; and he has threatened me with "legal action" on my Talk page,

1236:

I don't know about the book you reference, but his documentation may be lacking. Paul Heinegg went back to original court records and deeds, and did 20 years of meticulous work to trace families in colonial VA and their descendants. As is noted in this article, and in his book and website, Heinegg

776:

I do not believe the Hatfields and McCoys to represent an ethnic group distinct from their neighbors. The Melungeons, on the other hand, were "othered" by their neighbors, which is borne out by historical records. They did their best to fit in, inventing notions of their being "Portuguese" or from

592:

In Cervantes' forward to "Don Quixote" he uses the literary device of pretending that his book is actually a manuscript by a Moorish scholar, Sidi Hamet Benengeli. This surname is pronounced "Benenhaley", which seems to be an old surname among Melungeons and similar groups. Proof there, surely, of

232:

I agree - Berlin was talking about Spanish-African Creoles who came to VA as slaves or workers from being involved with the Portuguese slave trade in Africa. There were a few Spanish names among some of the early families traced by Paul Heinegg, who looked at free blacks in VA in the colonial era in

2762:

This above book was also wrote about in the chattanoogan: Goins Family Intermarried With Indian Neighbors Monday, December 09, 2002 "In the days when the Cherokee Indians occupied the Chattanooga region, members of the Goins family were their neighbors and intermarried with them. Some of the Goins

2545:

What purpose does this para serve? This article cannot address the genealogy of every crank who believes in Melungeon mythology. It's especially problematic when we present this mythology uncritically, without noting that it doesn't fit the data. There is no need to have any of the Collins stuff in

2326:

Most of my ancestors were mixed with anglo to gain the status of lower taxes for passing as white. Exception though is the Jones families retained their Chowan characteristics through the female line even into the the late 1900's. For example: The Freestone county census of 1870 in Texas, listed my

2209:

Haplogroup F originated some 45,000 years ago, either in North Africa (in which case it would point to a second wave of out-of-Africa migration) or in South Asia. More than 90% of males not native to Africa are descended in direct male line from the first bearer of haplogroup F. (North Africa being

2156:

Not only was Oral history on that site...but ALSO and the BASIS of the info on that site was Government documents....the smallest ammount on that site was oral....so is there some reason you decided to leave that part out of what you typed? hmmm. They was identified as indians to evade.....ok so

2121:

It has also been stated in over 100 books and ANY national archives employee or Census records expert will clearly tell you before starting any Census resarch that ANYONE not white would be listed as "free person of color" and ANYONE who was mixed with whites was listed as Mulatto. If a Asian was

1811:

But since my copy of the encyclopedia was printed, the longer online version of the Melungeon article was edited to remove references to speculation about Turkish words and dress (turbans and flowing robes) in Cherokee culture. . The online article's tone and conclusions generally match the current

1059:

And once again, if people are isolated in some way for a duration of time, they can form their own group. All mankind has common descent, yet over time new cultures have popped up, and those people a bit more closely related to each other than to other people start to have unique physical traits.

990:

Furthermore, it is said that genetic genealogy tests cannot especially differentiate between Mongolian and American Indian heritage. They could have picked it up from Russian, Ukranian or other East European ancestors in Medieval Europe. Time is never a factor in these tests, because they have no

857:

On the contrary, there are numerous other so-called "triracial isolate" groups in various parts of the United States, some of which have their own articles. The Melungeons have for over 100 years been a noted, much written about, romanticized, hotly debated subject, and as such are notable. It is

751:

Also, I keep seeing this thing about appearance. I do not fit the "Anglo-Teutonic" racial stereotype, yet I am white. The Welsh are White, even if they look Middle Eastern. Are Middle Easterners somehow not Caucasian? This conflicts with the majority viewpoint, which is solidly anti-Nazi in its

711:

Nearly all rural families keep close ties and form communities with one another. That proves nothing, especially given the extensive intermarriage between the hypothetical Melungeon ancestors and their neighbors. There are only two documented uses of the word Melungeon prior to the time the amateur

635:

Melungeons were recognized by their neighbors over the past 100+ years or so, largely due to their physical appearance, as a group distinct from other settlers of purely European descent. The article relies on the available sources to determine the actual origin(s) of these people (and to discount

97:

Please start new discussions at the bottom of the page (not the top). If you want to start a back-and-forth discussion PLEASE create an account so you can include the date and time of your posting - otherwise these get so confused that nobody knows what is new and what is old, and who is responding

2799:

1920 Tennessee census records: Dist 1, Chattanooga City, 8 Jan ed 173 Arch Goins 43 TN TN TN Florence A. wife 36 GA GA GA Artie L. son 16 TN TN GA Eliza B. dau 11 Sarah F. dau 6 James W. son 3

2397:

Now that all the above is understood....and since this page is attacking me personally by talking about my grandfathers and grand mothers....and how it is clear anything I add to my forefather's section tends to be deleted due to it mentioning our native american blood...this is directly attacking

2360:

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and

2313:

To Add: My ancestors, Robert Pearis James Jones from Chowan County, North Carolina is descendant of the former tribe Chowanoc. The tribe was at one point the largest Native tribe in North Carolina. From 1500's to 1780's the tribe dwindled to a dozen remaining families, Jones being one of them. The

2242:

I left a comment on the IP user page asking the editor to use this Talk page for any comments on the Melungeon issues, but the person has sent another message to my personal user page, which I've moved to this page below. The IP is for a general Comcast address (?)that may be used by more than one

2009:

I moved the Thomas Collins material down to the Legends section, under the account of Everett first hypothesizing Saponi Indian descent, and the later refutation of this theory. Also noted a cite was still necessary. This section also refers to Dromgoole's work, and the angelfire article cited by

1874:

Yes, it's fine to be entertained by romantic legends, but Paul Heineggs' careful documentation of facts is a wonderful story, too, about how people made their own choices in relationships and marriages, were smart enough to migrate to the frontier where they could mostly live in peace, and found a

1739:

According to "Lies My Teacher Told Me Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong" by James W Loewen, "The Seminoles did not exist as a tribe or nation before the arrival of Europeans and Africans. They were a triracial isolate composed of Creek Indians, remnants of smaller tribes, runaway

1654:

All of the things that are being stated about this Jewish theory and their experts can be said about Jack Goins, Virginia DeMarce, and Paul Heinegg's so called expert work. They have an Afro-centrist agenda, cherry pick results, and flagrantly disregard the historical records. The "Melungeons" are

1615:

Although it is a vast improvement on the nihilistic article that preceded it, this one doesn't give any references more current than 2005. There have been a number of studies and conferences since then. There is even a new Melungeon DNA ethnotyping study. The subject of Melungeons is becoming less

1437:

6. While the ", that is, " construction may be common among some writers and stylists, it involves more assailable punctuation, in two ways: (1) it joins two independent sentences ("'isolate refers to 'genetic isolate,'" and "that is, a group that has ") with a comma; (2) it places a comma between

747:

So the Hatfields and McCoys become nations unto themselves? You've got to realize how this looks to outsiders and the world at large; very foolish indeed. It reeks of exaggerated self-aggrandizement and a way for small hick towns to get on a Northern liberal college-view map about race, in which

533:

The most widely accepted and best-supported etymological origins for "Melungeon" are the old English "Malingerer," meaning 'loafer', the French "Melangean," meaning 'mixed', "Malungo," an Afro-Portuguese term for 'comrade,' and "Melangeana," Italian for 'eggplant' which is in application slang for

121:

facts. There are facts that Spaniards traveled throught continental US and they brought translators and or isleños of berberic origin some of them from tri-racial origin to continental US. This is a fact that spaniards mademass deportation of Canary islanders to louisiana. Islanders that later

2703:

was taken in 1890 and appeared in the September 1, 1890 Dromgoole article for Nashville Sunday American. It was taken directly from Newman's ridge and was published before 1923 which makes it public domain. "Mr. Thomas Sharpe, of Nashville, made an excellent sketch of this teacher while he was

2617:

A more correct photo for Melungeons would be the one by Will Allen Dromgoole who took a picture of the Melungeon people in 1890, one of the pictures ended up in newspapers. The man in the newspapers was Calloway Collins. Calloway Collins DNA was included in the Melungeon's DNA project and he did

2600:

It is unclear how this family was wrote in that book as Melungeon unless the author assumed this family was part of the other Goins family by mistakenly assuming the Melungeon Goins was from Georgia. Asa Goins was never traced to Newman's ridge or any of the other Melungeon families. Some people

2539:

Jack Goins and some Collins family descendants rely on family tradition and oral history that their forebear Thomas Collins was descended from Indians in Louisa County, Virginia, "probably Saponi". In addition, they note the identification of their ancestor John Collins as "Indian" by the Orange

1253:

Further, Heinegg found that 80% of "other free people" in the 1790-1810 census of North Carolina were descended from African Americans who were free in Virginia in the colonial period. As noted on his website and in his book, and in this article, most of those free people of color were descended

693:

This whole Melungeon thing is like trying to assign an ethnicity to multiracial offspring of unmarried parents in the urban ghettoes--except that the Melungeons are rural. These people, of vastly different poor origins, do not constitute their own ethnicity in sum total. Les Invisibles 07:20, 7

2919:

http://books.google.com/books?id=7JIiaLRS4VMC&pg=PR7&lpg=PR7&dq=%22a+typical+malungeon%22&source=bl&ots=Yxl3f3bh_Y&sig=GdpWlrtc2ZluhcsF82VZwHCrnys&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TXjwUMu7HYb62gXv7oCgCA&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22a%20typical%20malungeon%22&f=false

2775:

This brings us back to the Mystery photo. All that is truly known about this is "Arch Goins and his family, Graysville Melungeons Photo from the 1920's, from a great-nephew in Chattanooga provided by and used with the permission of Barbara Goins" Who is the submitter? Everywhere this photo is

2679:

From much earlier in this article history, the discussion was that the photo was submitted by a descendant (who is identified on the image file) who self-identified her family as Melungeon and it was accepted as such at the time. Originally the objection was that an outsider was labeling someone

2205:

Y-chromosomal DNA Main articles: Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroups and Haplogroup F (Y-DNA) The mutations defining macro-haplogroup CR (all Y haplogroups except A and B) predate the "Out of Africa" migration, its descendent macro-group DE being confined to Africa. The mutations that distinguish

2096:

The DNA tests if you talk to the people doing the DNA tests would know our DNA projects are to find which lines belong to which Collins lines. There is 4 collins lines that was in America. There was 2 John Collins. One is associated with the historic plantations of NC. Which this line has been

924:

were, as the sources show, often regarded by their neighbors as something "other," and somewhat of a mystery regarding their origins. They probably would have wanted to fit into the Appalachian/American society as a whole but the racial attitudes and policies of the time did not allow it 100%.

923:

I think the article speaks quite clearly to the history. Have you read it straight through? If you had, you probably wouldn't be claiming that the Melungeons' history is comparable to that of an R&B singer whose heritage is well known. What you say just doesn't make sense. The Melungeons

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father of: 1850 United States Federal Census about Jordon Collins Name: Jordon Collins Age: 43 Birth Year: abt 1807 Birthplace: Tennessee Home in 1850: Subdivision 33, Hancock, Tennessee Gender: Male Family Number: 69 Household Members: Name Age Jordon Collins 43 Abba Collins 44 Coloway Collins

1441:

7. The wording "to some degree" is unnecessary, because "some" here includes the entire range of maintenance, from anything microscopically above 0%, all the way up to 100%. Unless we are going to specify a degree or a narrower range of degrees, we may as well leave it out. Omission of "to some

982:

as being sub-Saharan African and found in Northern Britain. There's nothing special about the Melungeon claims in the slightest. Also, we all know the proclivity of isolated groups in the rural South. "Kissing cousins" is an infamous reputation. When groups hold a very internalized breeding

872:

her own ethnicity, or part of an ethnicity? Ms. Carey is considered a blend of a couple different ethniticies. She is not part of an ethnic community, but part of more than one or having none specifically. The "rejects" do not constitute their own people. They never have and never will, because

1755:

It is true that they were a tribe self-created in a process of ethnogenesis, from Native Americans of various tribes, African Americans, and few Europeans. But they created a cohesive identity and culture dominated by Native American traditions, that they could pass on. Other sources give more

1082:

Les Invisibles, you should either be banned from posting or just stop, b/c you have nothing positive or insightful to say. and you obviously don't even know what you're talking about. Have you never heard of BioGeographical Ancestry? obviously Time IS indeed a factor. some random Asian genetic

701:

Largely due to their not-quite-purely European appearance, they were described by their neighbors over a period of many decades, pejoratively, as "Melungeons," whether you like this or not. And the families so described often kept close ties with one another, largely of necessity, forming a

201:

I doubt the Melungeons are long-lost descendants of Spanish/Portuguese settlers in the South Atlantic, due to the failure of establishment of colonies by New Spain in this part of the country during the 1600's. Then comes the stories of a possible link with a variety of ethnicites of the

1175:

Because we see that there is an "Arch Goins" (featured in the photograph), that means they are Scotch-Irish (Northern Irish). Archibald is a Scottish name and Goins is an Irish name. How enlightening...they are no different from their neighbors. Neustriano 16:58, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

1853:

with a completely different article from a different author. The original author was none other than Brent Kennedy. The new article was written by the Tenn. Historical Society's executive director (I'm guessing that, burned once, they didn't want an outside contributor to handle the

271:

Hey, They are evidence that canary Islanders arrived to the US to populated louisiana. There is evidence that spaniards used berberic people as translators to speak with native indians. We could start our conclusions that the melungeons could be people of mix ancestry like Isleños

636:

some of the claims that turn out to have no evidence). Your post, on the other hand, consists solely of opinion, with no sources, and it's not clear that you have read the article itself in a careful, thoughtful manner. Please do so, then we'll have a more reasoned discussion.

2519:

the one on Heinegg-DeMarce research in Origins section? Or wherever concerned editors decide as a satisfactory resolution? I think it should be separate as it relies on different sources and comes to different conclusions than do Heinegg and DeMarce. Heinegg, DeMarce and Goins

175:(1998), Ira Berlin documented the arrival of Atlantic creole slaves in the North American colonies, some of whom had fathers who were Spanish or Portuguese from trading cities in Africa or Europe. Often the Atlantic creoles first worked in Barbados or other Caribbean locations.-- 467:

Wise County was likely named after a descendant or relative of the Wise family that was influential in VA politics and long-settled on plantations in Accomack County. Henry Alexander Wise was governor of VA from 1856-1860, for instance, and preceded by numerous politician

537:"Melungeon" is neologic, and historically the people so-called were mulattoes and free persons of color, as is well inicated in the historical record. What little reliable DNA and other genetic testing has been done is suggestive: mainly English and a little African. 1197:

Goins can be of English, German, Belgian, Irish and even a variation of French origin, based on NY Passenger Records. Ancestry.com gives Irish and German as two main origins (Oxford Dictionary of American Surnames). But that only identifies one generation of

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influences from a 1000 years ago are not going to show up on such a test. the tests can be used as a timetable in addition paper-trail genealogy in pinpointing time and origin of ancestors. and how about you lay off of Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, ok?

2755:

It says there no one in Graysville was called Melungeons. It also states no one in Graysville was from Hancock or Hawkins county. Hamilton county, Tenn sits on the Georgia border. Yet it states Hancock county is the homeland of the actual Melungeons.

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Anyway, I've made the case to the only degree to which I intend to make it. These days, I haven't much time for such discussions at Knowledge—so I leave it up to you other editors. Thanks, though, to anyone who read my points and considered them.

2330:

The rest of family is listed also as Indian. His granddaughter, Lura Eva still retained her Chowan characteristics (along with other mix tribal heritage) along with her children, my granduncles and grandaunts. Today my family passes for white.

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In earlier years, members of groups such as these would sometimes self-identify as Spanish or Portugese to escape discrimination that was directed at known African-American families. The article also documents some sources for Spanish/Portugese

392:

Well, the information is contained in the photo page itself, if you click through to it. I was thorough in my documentation: Arch Goins and family, Melungeons from Graysville, Tennessee. Archival family photograph from the 1920s, provided to

1638:

If you have new sources to add, please do so. The Melungeon DNA Project is referenced near the end of the article, and so far supports Heinegg and DeMarce's work - that this group is descended primarily from European and African ancestors.

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colony was a proposal for this exact region of Appalachia where the Melungeons supposedly live. This false people should be seen for who they really are, which is anybody but the long lost Vandal tribe. Look here...come one, come all:

1180:

It means only that some people in the paternal line had the name Goins and may have been of Scots-Irish origin, not that all were. Also many different individuals adopted popular given names from the chiefly English/Scots-Irish general

555:

To be more precise, "Mélangeant" (final 't' is silent) in French doesn't mean 'mixed', it means 'mixing'. It French-Canadian parlance it also means "confusing". Confusion around the Melungeons truly qualifies them as "mélangeant".

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Apprently since my direct blood line ancestors are being attacked here..I thought it would be right for me to add this topic on Racism, since apprently a few people here are attempting to deny my families' native american blood.

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is "too much detail" for the intro to an article whose title is "Melungeon"? But this single sentence should become a separate article, requiring readers of the "Melungeon" article to follow a link to read a one-sentence article?

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The book itself states this man never even lived in Tennessee till 1843 and was in hamilton county, Tenn and his family never moved into Hancock or Hawkins county, Tenn. There is no records of any Melungeons being in Georgia.

456:

Wise is a surname, in fact the surname of the person for whom the county is named. But I don't think he was actually from Wise County. Can the person adding the surname to the article explain where this information comes from?

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First, I have no personal preference on the text being inserted/removed by the editors on this article, I'll let everyone else here resolve those issues. My only issue is the source used and how the external links are used per

1909:

All people interested in this topic should really read Paul Heinegg's "Free AFrican Americans in VA, NC, SC, MD and DE", available as a book and online at www.freeafricanamericans.com. You need to see the careful marshaling of

148:

Also, there were some Italian sea captains who settled in VA in the early 1700s. Two Tagliaferro brothers were sea captains who married and settled there, with many descendants. Later the name was anglicized to Taliaferro and

1776:

I live in Tennessee and love obscure historical puzzles − whether they relate to my home state or not. So I'm surprised that I had never heard of Melungeons until last week when I stumbled upon an entry in my hardbound copy of

2563:{{cite web|url=http://jgoins.com/old_thomas_collins.htm|title=Old Thomas Collins of Flatt River|author=Goins, Jack|publisher=Jack Goins' Research|work=Melungeon and Appalachian|year=2006|accessdate=2008-05-04}}</ref: --> 2323:

a large population by absorbing other endangered tribes. By doing this, those remaining families gained legal status but at the cost of being removed off their lands later during the trail of tears episodes and the like.

1815:

Knowledge article, while still giving the reader permission to be entertained by the romantic legendswithout feeling embarrassed about it. By the way, it includes bibliographic references not used by Knowledge editors.

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http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&q=chowan+indians&revid=422351890&sa=X&ei=awz2TbT7Febh0QGj0u3rDA&ved=0CIEBENUCKAE&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=3ece4bbf7ce578bb&biw=1416&bih=672

368:

Who are the people in the photo, and what is their claim to Melungeon-ness? Did they self-ID as Melungeons? I strongly doubt that. Why not just put up a photo from one of the "Unions" meetings? At least those folks do

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Arch Goins was recorded as the head of a household in the 1900 census of Rhea County, Enumeration District 86, page 3, Civil District 15: Goins, Arch 25, born in September 1874 in TN Florence 16, born in 1884 in GA"

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is a group of outcasts that thinks they are angels. Do we believe them, or ignore them, or consider them loonies, trapped in a fantasy and try subsequently to avoid them? Les Invisibles 07:48, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

2593:

The person in the picture is Asa Goins. This photo has not even been verified as to if it really is Asa. The photo was not taken around Newman's ridge. It is from Graysville, Tenn. Which is far from Newman's ridge.

1307:

I'll try to clarify here, in much more depth than in edit summaries, the reasons I see for some changes that I made to a sentence in the article's introduction and some that I didn't make but would like to see made.

2870:

Still no mention of the word Melungeon by anyone but this Barbara goins lady (who apprently was the spreader of that photo), Does not seem to come from Asa/Ach Goins who was named a Graysville Melungeon either.

1663:"Mel'un Can" is spelled with an apostrophe in Turkish, and it does not derive directly from Arabic. Can (Djim, Alif, Nun) is a Persian word meaning soul. So the composite is Arabo-Persian, not totally Arabic. 2183:

Since I'm sure people here are getting confused about the truths of DNA, this should bring people up to speed on what the EXPERTS state about DNA tests which states ALL humans have Africa traces in their DNA.

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I'm sure the people in that photo would be insulted to be called Melungeons. With no evidence that they self-IDed as Melungeon, it is the worst kind of revisionist history to label them as such retroactively.

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community of sorts, somewhat independently of their neighbors of more purely European ancestry. It's all described in the article. Have you read it straight through? You should do that, then we'll talk.

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that it should have a separate paragraph and sourcing apart from the Heinegg-DeMarce material, since he has a different conclusion. Perhaps you could work with the editor to show him how to do appropriate

487:

Because the Wise family had been so long established in VA, and also because the name is not unusual, there could have been many sources for the Wise family and ancestors noted in the Melungeons article.--

1122:

Pardon if I've done this incorrectly. The Cold Springs Harbor Laboratory has an on-line eugenics archive exhibit that contains information that would be of interest to those studying Melungeon history.

2125:

I have all my records in order, ALL my government records have the Government stamp, and all my other signed documents from Experts on the subject have been notarized along with sign affidavits.

919:, when you see it? Do old stories told around a warm log fire entertain you, or cause you to research them with undying belief in old wives tales? Les Invisibles 08:02, 7 February 2007 (UTC) 2767:

leaves the question as to why a family from Georgia would be labeled Melungeon but why someone would say they was Melungeon when no one in hamilton or graysville ever was called Melungeon.

2828:"My GGrandfather Arch Goins was born in 1874 in Tennessee. James Goins and Melvina Goins were his parents. I would like to find out Melvina's maiden name,or any other info on this family." 2680:"Melungeon". Now it appears that a family cannot say they were Melungeon. This is an historic photograph that was used in historical accounts; it is not a new reading "back" into history. 1708:

Much better than before. Find a ref for the citation needed tag. You need more refs. You have many paragraphs with none and the rule of thumb for FA is every para needs at least one ref.

1507:

This vocabulary distinction is well recognized in scientific literature, as well as publications of the United States Census Bureau, which specifically emphasizes, for example, that the

2402:

made via broadcast media -- for example, over the radio or on TV -- it is considered libel, rather than slander, because the statement has the potential to reach a very wide audience.

125:

Aren't they more relate to English and irish-Scottish since they are black, native american and european (mostly of british origins). What southern europeans have to do with them???

318:

The above is the wrong area of the country altogether - Melungeons were an ethnic group formed in the border areas of VA, KY and TN - mostly formed from tri-racial ancestors in VA.--

2524:

on placing Collins ancestors in early Louisa Co, VA. I have created a citation directly from Jack Goins' copyrighted website, and used most of what the unsigned editor contended.--

2834:"I just received Arch's application to the Miller Roll. Melvina's(Goins) parents were Martin and Susan Goins. It also says that Granville's father was Shade Goins. Barbara Goins" 760:? Would they fail a Nazi racial purity test? Hitler himself did not fit the archetype you believe is a qualification for whiteness. Les Invisibles 07:33, 7 February 2007 (UTC) 2661:

is the same Asa Goins, that confirms he lived in Graysville, as the photo says, about 150 miles from Newman's Ridge. Without any convincing evidence the photo should be removed.

1616:

confused and controversial as several published academic (and not amateur or hobbyist-oriented) studies are being accepted. The latest scholarly publications are not noted here.

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way of judging its place in relevance to specific genealogical additions. What we have here in this article, are a swarm of self-serving assumptions. Have you never heard of a

2073:

This anonymous editor's first legal threat made in edit summary to Melungeon article (10:09, 28 April 2008 24.30.38.213). Second legal threat made on user Parkwell's talk page (

2262:

There was 2 john collins, One which was from the plantations of NC. The historical societies which are over these plantations have admitted this was a different john Collins.

1327:

ancestry, and "isolate" refers to "genetic isolate," that is, a group that has maintained to some degree a distinct ethnic identity, though is not necessarily isolated in a

2327:

ancestor Robert P. Jones as Indian (not white like it is incorrectly interpreted). The census list Indian with an I next to a "." (period) in the race column. Ex: I.

286:

By the spaniards and abandoned like mustangs horses in USA. There is evidence that the Guanches of Canary islands were forced into slavery. where the were delivered?

2816:"My Great grand father was Arch Goins born Sept.1874 in James county Tennesse. He was married to Florence Adaline Gaddis born in 1884 in Lumpkin county Georgia." 1989:

also accusing me of "racism" since I have worked on other articles related to African Americans. I'll refer him back to this page, but have had enough of this.--

999:

You are wrong, as in some cases they can indentify when populations split off from each other. That's how they have been able to identify movement of peoples.--

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I agree with Badagnani; the family itself posted the photo and classified its own people as Melungeons on the geocities site. Therefore it's fine to use it.--

1797:

on the Byzantine/Roman Empire, which fell to the Ottomans just as the European-based voyages of discovery were beginning, and I'm a fan of Neal Stephenson's

838:) based solely on having a White mother and Black father, rather than her acting ability or his political astuteness. Come on, let's put this in proportion: 2100:

Also thru various articles from DNA experts is has been stated that ALL humans contain a Sub African DNA....it's widely known as the Adam and Eve theory.

2716:

Benjiman Collins was the grandfather of Calloway Collins and was used in the 2012 DNA newspaper articles: 87510 Benjamin Collins United States R1b1a2

868:

Explain how a few isolated communities in the sticks, happen to be their own collective identity...other than "the others" apart from the majority... Is

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The John Collins of louisa county and Orange county VA....has been PROVEN thru Virginia court records as being a Indian being sold for stealing pigs.

1601:

I'll put in the sentence as I rewrote it last night, with a few words to clarify that there is uncertainty about the three races, and a source to cite.

1156:

Well done article. One suggestion: could you include the pronunciation of "Melungeon" somewhere in the first para? Is it a hard or a soft "g"? Thanks.

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some other lands. The history exists and we cannot simply ignore it, but instead do our best to determine and present factual information about it.

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Very few Americans whose have ancestry in the country for over a century are of "pure" racial blood. Most have a little Amerindian blood or African.

1286: 1563:, there is a glaring contradiction in saying that Melungeons are ethnically distinct but that they are not distinct culturally (i.e., ethnically). 1076: 2621:

Benjamen COLLINS Birth 1780 in Jones, North Carolina, United States Death 1808 in Hancock, Tennessee, United States married Nancy COLLINS 1782 –

1416:, the comma is better replaced by a semicolon because the independent clauses on each side of it also contain more than one of their own commas. 1117: 1849:

Yep. In fact, I double-checked my hardcopy of the Tennessee Encyclopedia and found that the original article had not been edited, but in fact

1969:

I was assuming the info was OK when I changed from the angelfire ref to {{cn}}. If it's disputed, it should probably be reverted back to the

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This image of the newman's ridge melungeons should be used for the image of the melungeons since it is verified and was published in 1890.

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I know what: I'm blacker than black, so my neighbors must be crackaz fo' sho! HOW PRIMITIVE! Les Invisibles 08:31, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

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evidence or truth, but that is part of the story. In many cases it is possible to document genealogy and genetics to determine the facts.

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Some small towns in the Southern rural areas of Appalachia, have a degree of racial intermixing that is similar to New York or Los Angeles

1741: 1670: 1626: 1046:? Do not their story and racial experiences sound eerily similar to the preconcieved notions of the Melungeons? What a coincidence! 2930: 2899: 2850: 2729: 2642: 2440: 2417: 2378: 2275: 2223: 2164: 2132: 2107: 2054: 953:. All the locals seem to believe it, perpetuating their neighborly fantasy. So the only possibly mixed-race folks in Appalachia are 203: 2338: 2206:

Haplogroup C from all other descendants of CR have occurred some 60,000 years ago, shortly after the first Out of Africa migration.

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Chestney needs to come out. It is certainly not one of the most common core names. In fact, I have never heard of it before at all.

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10. It is more concise to say "isolated geographically or culturally" than to say "isolated in a geographical or cultural sense".

2032:

These comments were on my user Talk page. Other editors will have to explain to this person. I'm not dealing with him any more.--

725:"unmarried parents in the urban ghettoes (misspelled, btw; it's ghettos)." What's this in here for? Or are you just a racist? 628: 2357:

Now that I have added the above topics to clearify the truths....now I'm going to add what the legal definition is on Racism.

978:

It shows African heritage in Europe, especially in the Mediterranean countries. Knowledge also lists haplogroup or haplotype

901: 2789:

http://boards.ancestry.netscape.com/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=41&p=localities.northam.usa.states.tennessee.counties.rhea

1784:(full text available online!)while looking up something in the "Memphis" entry. It mentioned the Turkish legend, which just 484:

As I suspected, Wise County was named after Henry A. Wise, just elected Gov. of VA in 1856, when the county was established.

2793:

Ok so after tracking down who this Barbara is...it seems to be some confusion as to if this is Arch Goins or Elijah Goins.

1793:

My first memories of life on this planet were in Turkey (US Army brat) and I just finished listening to Lars Brownworth's

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from marriages/unions between white women and African/African-American men, among the servant and working classes in VA.--

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Suggest a new article on "tri-racial isolate." It's too much detail for the Intro to this article, and totally unsourced.

1977: 1889:

Agreed. Now I have to recall everyone I've infected with the bogus Ottoman story in the past week and set them straight.

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No response yet to this request for substantiation. I say the photo comes out, given the lack of verifiable provenance.

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The word Melungeon is not neologic. An English cognate has been discovered circa 1600, and documented in this article.

1397:. When we refer someone to the library, it's not at all the same as our describing that person or the library. While 2785:

I am researching this some more as I'm writing this so bare with me, I just tracked down who this Barbara Goins is,

2824:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Goins&GSiman=1&GScnty=2457&GRid=27283043&

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living in NC,VA,GA,SC ,etc etc then they would in FACT (it's a proven fact) be listed as "free person of color".

38: 2717: 1170: 975: 2562:

Thanks for finding a more appropriate source. For the ref tag, I suggest a minor format change to:<ref: -->

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white population, from the more 'plainly' black population, and from the more 'plainly' Amerindian population.

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is imprecise and ambiguous and may be seen as political correctness; it is even commonly used as a synonym for

1107: 1066: 1025: 992: 891: 798: 731: 675: 81: 76: 71: 59: 1055:. Another "coincidence". It's nonsense, I tell you once again! Les Invisibles 06:05, 8 February 2007 (UTC) 631:. Also, be reminded that Knowledge is not for self-endorsement. Les Invisibles 06:22, 7 February 2007 (UTC) 297: 2698: 2633: 1745: 1698: 1674: 1630: 2200: 712:

hypothesists of the late 19th century began fabricating the myth. I have to largely agree with Mr. Invisible

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I have spent 3 hours going thru google searches for "arch goins graysville" and it is all the same thing.

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There is no mention of a Arch, Asa, or Jackson Goins in the Melungeon DNA project (link supplied above).

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The Turkish hypothesis is pure nonsense. It originates with Brent Kennedy, an extremely unreliable source.

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that that maintenance is "not necessarily isolated" (i.e., not distinct) "in a cultural sense" (i.e., is

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3. It is more concise simply to join the two independent clauses with a semicolon than to use a comma and

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If this single sentence really overwhelms intro readers, it can be moved to a later part of the article.

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me, since this page is PUBLIC....well I think it is time for me to express what the law states on this.

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http://melungeon.ning.com/forum/topics/september-1-1890-dromgoole-article-for-nashville-sunday-american

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is independent of race and can occur among black persons, white persons, &c. (i.e., persons of any

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This article is well-documented. Please don't mess it up by adding anecdotal, unsourced information.--

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I could not find much on Graysville, Tenn linking to the actual recorded Melungeons other than this:

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The only mention of this man as a Melungeon comes from a book wrote in 2001 which is sold on amazon

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fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life

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a Collins descendant based on oral tradition. That's more reason to revert to the previous form.--

2191: 2185: 1974: 1894: 1859: 1821: 1778: 1227: 942:. I'm a mystery, at least until I open my mouth. Les Invisibles 08:10, 7 February 2007 (UTC) 1224:

The Birth of Black America: The First African Americans and the Pursuit of Freedom at Jamestown

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So now we know the lady in the picture is defiently from Georgia along with all her family.

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change is one of increasing both accuracy and precision. With the less debatable meaning of

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distinction, the changes I have made are not "major conceptual redefinitions". And even the

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than I intend in this paragraph, I specifically wrote the article sentence to use the word

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and see if there is a direct line of patrilineal descent from Native American ancestors.--

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Please prove that Melungeon is an ethnicity. Les Invisibles 07:23, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

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This shows who ever it is, Can't be the Asa/Ach Goins since they claim it is from 1920.

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A rural ghetto does not constitute a separate ethnic identity. It is a subculture, like

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Page 36 of North from the Mountains a Folk History of the Carmel Melungeon Settlement

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I was definitely "wanting to believe" in the notion of chai-swilling Ottoman castaways

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http://www.chattanoogan.com/2002/12/9/30057/Goins-Family-Intermarried-With-Indian.aspx

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11<<<<<<<< Milum Collins 9 Monnray Collins 7 Nancy Collins 5

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Was reading too fast. I don't know who added Wise as one of the Melungeon families.--

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http://boards.ancestrylibrary.com/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=698&p=surnames.goins

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The book mentioned above is a self-published book and can't be used as a source. If

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http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/Term/85BAB88B-0660-4AB6-A2F5C32E716A6D52/alpha/S/

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slaves, and whites who preferred to live in Indian society." page 151 2007 edition

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For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all

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Even searches thru google turns up nothing relating this man to any Melungeons.

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degree" is exactly as ambiguous as its inclusion, but removes extraneous words.

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The "rejects," as you term them, can indeed form their own people. Look at the

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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http://www.familytreedna.com/public/coremelungeon/default.aspx?section=yresults

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A single sentence defining the meaning of a critical part of the definition of

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http://www.ancestry.com/learn/facts/fact.aspx?&fid=10&fn=&ln=goins

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The Burial site of Arch Goins appears to give no info on his ancestry either

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http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Parkwells&oldid=209952706

885:. Both groups were discriminated in Europe, and formed their own identity. 1367: 1328: 1219: 968: 946: 789: 2951: 2699:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c194/Atlanta44/maleungon_zps095d201c.jpg

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http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c194/Atlanta44/maleungon_zps095d201c.jpg

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http://en.wikipedia.org/Recent_single-origin_hypothesis#Y-chromosomal_DNA

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http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~allpoms/genetics4.html

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Dude you better watch your mouth with that "hillbilly" talk, for real. —

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to place the comma after "genetic isolate" inside the quotation marks.

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Unfortunately, Knowledge policy prohibits original research by editors.

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Overall this Knowledge article was informative and was of value to me.

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that's just human nature. Les Invisibles 07:57, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

792:. It is a very loose term. Antonio Banderas is Mexican, not Spanish. 1389:

2. It is more concise, and less ambiguous, to write about what a term

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found it has the same description...and no known original submitter.

2564:. It's just a more structured and more standardized formatting. --- 1809:

by unsuspecting backwoods Dick Van Dykes in 17th Century Appalachia.

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with no establishment of their own, get their own article? It's like

1488:, it's illogical to say that Melungeons have maintained a distinct 1405:

exhibits a 100% increase in words and a 50% increase in syllables.

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Why was "Royer" added as a surname? What is the source for that?

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DNA Results: 87510 Benjamin Collins United States R1b1a2 (R-M269)

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http://www.amazon.com/Early-Hamilton-Settlers-Wilson/dp/B0025UCGP0

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If we want to seriously solved this mistery we want to depart from

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Tennessee Encyclopedia of History and Culture entry on Melungeons

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9. The use of "though" is odd; "but" is less so and is shorter.

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in its world view. Les Invisibles 05:47, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

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http://boards.ancestrylibrary.com/surnames.goins/1080.1/mb.ashx

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http://bartoncii.xanga.com/612116899/the-graysville-melungeons/

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There is what the Experts have to say on both Y DNA and M DNA

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Also, aware that some readers may imagine a broader concept of

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http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/02/21/africa-human-dna.html

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Charlotte_of_Mecklenburg-Strelitz#Evidence_of_African_ancestry

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Mongoloid. Mongolian is a term describing things related to

25: 2707:

I'm working to find more sources for this newspaper article:

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A person should over look a in depth look at what racism is.

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http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070509161829.htm

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No urban or rural myth should stand in for facts. I'm sure

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clan were of the mysterious dark-skinned Melungeon race."

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third way between the barriers of race that some erected.--

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I don't have any position on the material being inserted,

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http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.goins/941.3.1/mb.ashx

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Please know the history before stating false accounts.

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http://bz.llano.net/gowen/dud/manuscript/Gowenms145.htm

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http://bz.llano.net/gowen/dud/manuscript/Gowenms114.htm

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Sentence in opening paragraph that keeps being reverted

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http://genforum.genealogy.com/goins/messages/1605.html

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to use italics when mentioning words or short phrases

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MALUNGU: The African Origin of the American Melungeons

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http://mikenassau.freehomepage.com/melungeonpage.html

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http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=4325494

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http://genforum.genealogy.com/goin/messages/314.html

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http://genforum.genealogy.com/goin/messages/169.html

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http://www.geocities.com/melungeonorigin/maomg2.html

2300:http://xroads.virginia.edu/~CAP/POCA/POC_law.html 2955:: "Old Thomas Collins of Flatt River", 2005-2006 2953:Jack Goins' Research - Melungeon and Appalachian 2198:http://www.jqjacobs.net/anthro/paleo/genome.html 1973:by Aramgar until a proper source is provided. -- 1315:"Tri-racial" refers to populations of mixed (1) 1125:http://www.eugenicsarchive.org/eugenics/list3.pl 2432:http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/libel 995:? Les Invisibles 05:54, 8 February 2007 (UTC) 961:. Les Invisibles 08:28, 7 February 2007 (UTC) 235:Free African Americans in VA, MD, DE, NC and SC 109:how are they realted to Spanish and Portuguese? 2712:http://www.historical-melungeons.com/wad2.html 2515:How about the following as a paragraph, to go 1781:Tennessee Encyclopedia of History and Culture 8: 2511:Possible Resolution on Collins family issues 1684: 2195:http://www.trussel.com/prehist/news255.htm 1270:"related groups" info removed from infobox 1213: 2238:Comment from the above unsigned IP editor 1534:, in a further effort to raise clarity. 348:Added box with photo, comparable to the 2944: 1735:Seminoles as a triracial isolate group? 1284:infoboxes. Comments may be left on the 606:actual lineage and also name changes.-- 2917:By John S. Kessler, Donald B. Ball, 2295:http://www.mitsawokett.com/Plecker.htm 2290:Free person of color on Census records 976:Haven't any of you ever seen this map? 915:mean to you? Do you know how to call 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 2802:http://spike1451.tripod.com/id43.html 1480:With this more careful definition of 836:One_drop_theory#Reverse_one-drop_rule 7: 1469:(in terms of genes and/or culture), 1427:than to say that it "refers to" it. 1419:4. It is more accurate to say that 1401:is a single word of two syllables, 1346:describes populations of mixed (1) 1214:Hashaw's Theory of Melungeon origin 830:trying to get notoriety (or on the 2409:http://en.wikipedia.org/Defamation 1685:Don't add material without sources 934:I'm just telling you straight up: 523:Mul(atto) + Injun = Mulungeon ? - 24: 2618:actualy live on Newman's ridge: 1102: 1061: 1020: 886: 793: 726: 670: 29: 2309:http://en.wikipedia.org/Colored 1445:8. The more precise meaning of 752:definition of race. How about 629:Knowledge:Neutral point of view 2366:http://en.wikipedia.org/Racism 1633:) 02:52, August 22, 2007 (UTC) 1457:as a synonym or euphemism for 1166:Goins surname; Irish or German 974:That is definitely reaching. 969:Southern Europeans are Blacks? 528:07:30, 26 September 2006 (UTC) 462:06:04, 22 September 2006 (UTC) 431:03:23, 20 September 2006 (UTC) 416:02:08, 20 September 2006 (UTC) 402:21:08, 19 September 2006 (UTC) 383:20:59, 19 September 2006 (UTC) 374:21:40, 17 September 2006 (UTC) 361:19:04, 16 September 2006 (UTC) 103:01:39, 23 September 2005 (UTC) 1: 1766:12:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC) 1118:14:00, 21 February 2007 (UTC) 1093:Les Invisibles, look at this. 1077:13:57, 21 February 2007 (UTC) 1036:13:57, 21 February 2007 (UTC) 902:13:57, 21 February 2007 (UTC) 809:13:57, 21 February 2007 (UTC) 742:13:57, 21 February 2007 (UTC) 686:13:57, 21 February 2007 (UTC) 583:09:35, 22 December 2006 (UTC) 569:00:26, 20 November 2006 (UTC) 548:01:48, 29 November 2006 (UTC) 2939:20:45, 11 January 2013 (UTC) 1484:, quite close in meaning to 1378:1. It is in accordance with 1152:Request for article's author 1042:Have you never heard of the 929:08:07, 7 February 2007 (UTC) 863:07:56, 7 February 2007 (UTC) 782:07:42, 7 February 2007 (UTC) 770:07:39, 7 February 2007 (UTC) 717:22:20, 8 February 2007 (UTC) 707:07:24, 7 February 2007 (UTC) 641:07:15, 7 February 2007 (UTC) 2908:19:31, 9 January 2013 (UTC) 2859:18:02, 9 January 2013 (UTC) 2738:15:31, 9 January 2013 (UTC) 2690:13:30, 9 January 2013 (UTC) 2671:13:15, 9 January 2013 (UTC) 2651:12:24, 9 January 2013 (UTC) 1679:01:48, 8 January 2008 (UTC) 1465:(in terms of race, genes), 600:22:28, 7 January 2007 (UTC) 2974: 2455:WP:RS and copyright issues 1920:19:50, 23 April 2008 (UTC) 1899:13:30, 24 April 2008 (UTC) 1885:17:00, 23 April 2008 (UTC) 1864:13:30, 24 April 2008 (UTC) 1845:17:45, 23 April 2008 (UTC) 1826:15:49, 23 April 2008 (UTC) 1795:awesome series of Podcasts 1750:02:44, 21 April 2008 (UTC) 1649:22:05, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 1264:22:02, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 1247:14:26, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 1208:22:28, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 1191:22:09, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 1144:15:53, 21 March 2007 (UTC) 1132:12:33, 21 March 2007 (UTC) 1088:00:47, 30 March 2007 (UTC) 1009:22:26, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 844:and the point of that is?! 661:03:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC) 616:21:58, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 513:22:24, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 497:16:01, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 478:14:48, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 446:17:06, 15 March 2008 (UTC) 159:22:18, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 140:14:46, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 2347:13:14, 13 June 2011 (UTC) 1730:10:16, 9 April 2008 (UTC) 1699:20:59, 7 April 2008 (UTC) 1611:03:38, 24 July 2007 (UTC) 1586:19:22, 23 July 2007 (UTC) 1574:04:34, 23 July 2007 (UTC) 1161:13:47, 9 April 2007 (UTC) 1386:words or short phrases. 1295:17:12, 19 May 2007 (UTC) 1231:22:14, 13 May 2007 (UTC) 993:self-fulfilling prophecy 328:11:49, 19 May 2009 (UTC) 302:11:31, 19 May 2009 (UTC) 247:11:49, 19 May 2009 (UTC) 212:07:36, 17 May 2009 (UTC) 185:21:06, 15 May 2008 (UTC) 2581:16:38, 4 May 2008 (UTC) 2556:20:08, 4 May 2008 (UTC) 2534:16:14, 4 May 2008 (UTC) 2505:15:33, 4 May 2008 (UTC) 2485:14:29, 4 May 2008 (UTC) 2449:12:44, 4 May 2008 (UTC) 2426:12:42, 4 May 2008 (UTC) 2387:12:37, 4 May 2008 (UTC) 2284:10:49, 4 May 2008 (UTC) 2253:11:59, 4 May 2008 (UTC) 2232:11:42, 4 May 2008 (UTC) 2173:00:25, 5 May 2008 (UTC) 2141:11:23, 4 May 2008 (UTC) 2116:11:11, 4 May 2008 (UTC) 2087:22:19, 3 May 2008 (UTC) 2063:19:01, 3 May 2008 (UTC) 2042:19:40, 3 May 2008 (UTC) 2020:14:02, 3 May 2008 (UTC) 1999:19:23, 3 May 2008 (UTC) 1984:13:28, 3 May 2008 (UTC) 1963:13:27, 3 May 2008 (UTC) 1947:13:11, 3 May 2008 (UTC) 1504:an "ethnic identity"). 1287:Ethnic groups talk page 1619:Not sure how to sign 1459:racial and/or cultural 1393:, rather than what it 1151: 2957:, accessed 4 May 2008 2800:9mo all b. TN TN GA 2495:sourcing/citations.-- 1935:Melungeon DNA project 1625:comment was added by 1099:Metis people (Canada) 42:of past discussions. 2179:Out of Africa Theory 1928:Collins family in VA 1279:Infobox Ethnic group 913:Kensington Runestone 754:Catherine Zeta-Jones 694:February 2007 (UTC) 593:some Arabic origin? 1449:is akin to that of 1218:Tim Hashaw, in his 938:. I'll see you at 936:"I Want To Believe" 397:by Barbara Goins. 173:Many Thousands Gone 1807:being tripped over 1519:(genetic group)). 1467:non–Anglo-American 1350:, (2) sub-Saharan 1319:, (2) sub-Saharan 756:, or the Spaniard 2929:comment added by 2898:comment added by 2849:comment added by 2728:comment added by 2697:This photo here: 2641:comment added by 2589:The photo on page 2578: 2482: 2451: 2439:comment added by 2428: 2416:comment added by 2389: 2377:comment added by 2337:comment added by 2286: 2274:comment added by 2234: 2222:comment added by 2175: 2163:comment added by 2143: 2131:comment added by 2118: 2106:comment added by 2065: 2053:comment added by 1814: 1681: 1669:comment added by 1634: 1511:sometimes called 1473:(ditto), &c. 1430:5. It is against 818:. Why do certain 816:Greenwich Village 588:Don Quixote proof 292:comment added by 87: 86: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 2965: 2958: 2949: 2941: 2910: 2861: 2740: 2653: 2568: 2472: 2434: 2411: 2372: 2349: 2269: 2217: 2158: 2126: 2101: 2048: 1813: 1728: 1725: 1719: 1664: 1620: 1283: 1277: 1222:and in his book 1114: 1111: 1106: 1073: 1070: 1065: 1032: 1029: 1024: 949:really lives in 898: 895: 890: 805: 802: 797: 758:Antonio Banderas 738: 735: 730: 682: 679: 674: 657: 304: 68: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 2973: 2972: 2968: 2967: 2966: 2964: 2963: 2962: 2961: 2950: 2946: 2924: 2921: 2893: 2844: 2723: 2636: 2591: 2513: 2457: 2395: 2355: 2332: 2292: 2260: 2240: 2181: 2030: 1930: 1788:blew my mind. 1774: 1737: 1723: 1712: 1709: 1706: 1687: 1661: 1621:—The preceding 1608:President Lethe 1571:President Lethe 1425:genetic isolate 1364:genetic isolate 1356:Native American 1339:Suggested new: 1325:Native American 1302: 1281: 1275: 1272: 1216: 1168: 1154: 1112: 1109: 1095: 1071: 1068: 1030: 1027: 972: 909:Westford Knight 896: 893: 832:social register 803: 800: 736: 733: 680: 677: 655: 624: 590: 576: 562: 521: 454: 346: 287: 237:(on the web).-- 111: 92: 64: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 2971: 2969: 2960: 2959: 2943: 2916: 2913: 2881: 2874: 2695: 2694: 2693: 2692: 2674: 2673: 2629: 2624: 2590: 2587: 2586: 2585: 2584: 2583: 2560: 2559: 2558: 2512: 2509: 2508: 2507: 2456: 2453: 2394: 2391: 2354: 2351: 2291: 2288: 2259: 2256: 2239: 2236: 2210:sub African). 2180: 2177: 2154: 2153: 2152: 2151: 2094: 2093: 2092: 2091: 2090: 2089: 2029: 2026: 2025: 2024: 2023: 2022: 2004: 2003: 2002: 2001: 1966: 1965: 1929: 1926: 1925: 1924: 1923: 1922: 1904: 1903: 1902: 1901: 1872: 1871: 1870: 1869: 1868: 1867: 1866: 1810: 1789: 1773: 1770: 1769: 1768: 1756:information.-- 1736: 1733: 1705: 1702: 1686: 1683: 1660: 1657: 1652: 1651: 1591: 1590: 1589: 1588: 1530:, rather than 1376: 1375: 1368:geographically 1337: 1336: 1301: 1298: 1271: 1268: 1267: 1266: 1250: 1249: 1215: 1212: 1211: 1210: 1194: 1193: 1167: 1164: 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2945: 2942: 2940: 2936: 2932: 2928: 2920: 2915: 2911: 2909: 2905: 2901: 2897: 2889: 2888: 2883: 2879: 2878: 2872: 2868: 2867: 2862: 2860: 2856: 2852: 2848: 2843: 2838: 2837: 2832: 2831: 2826: 2825: 2820: 2819: 2814: 2813: 2807: 2804: 2803: 2797: 2794: 2791: 2790: 2786: 2783: 2780: 2779: 2773: 2772: 2768: 2764: 2760: 2757: 2753: 2749: 2748: 2744: 2741: 2739: 2735: 2731: 2727: 2720: 2719: 2714: 2713: 2710: 2705: 2701: 2700: 2691: 2687: 2683: 2678: 2677: 2676: 2675: 2672: 2668: 2664: 2660: 2656: 2655: 2654: 2652: 2648: 2644: 2640: 2635: 2631: 2627: 2622: 2619: 2615: 2611: 2610: 2605: 2602: 2598: 2595: 2588: 2582: 2576: 2572: 2567: 2561: 2557: 2553: 2549: 2546:there at all. 2544: 2543: 2542: 2541: 2538: 2537: 2536: 2535: 2531: 2527: 2523: 2518: 2510: 2506: 2502: 2498: 2493: 2489: 2488: 2487: 2486: 2480: 2476: 2471: 2467: 2463: 2454: 2452: 2450: 2446: 2442: 2438: 2433: 2429: 2427: 2423: 2419: 2415: 2410: 2406: 2405: 2399: 2393:Slander/Libel 2392: 2390: 2388: 2384: 2380: 2376: 2368: 2367: 2362: 2358: 2352: 2350: 2348: 2344: 2340: 2336: 2328: 2324: 2320: 2319: 2315: 2311: 2310: 2306: 2302: 2301: 2297: 2296: 2289: 2287: 2285: 2281: 2277: 2273: 2266: 2263: 2257: 2255: 2254: 2250: 2246: 2237: 2235: 2233: 2229: 2225: 2221: 2214: 2213: 2207: 2203: 2202: 2199: 2196: 2193: 2190: 2187: 2178: 2176: 2174: 2170: 2166: 2162: 2148: 2147: 2146: 2145: 2144: 2142: 2138: 2134: 2130: 2123: 2119: 2117: 2113: 2109: 2105: 2098: 2088: 2084: 2080: 2076: 2072: 2071: 2070: 2069: 2068: 2067: 2066: 2064: 2060: 2056: 2052: 2044: 2043: 2039: 2035: 2027: 2021: 2017: 2013: 2008: 2007: 2006: 2005: 2000: 1996: 1992: 1987: 1986: 1985: 1982: 1979: 1976: 1972: 1968: 1967: 1964: 1960: 1956: 1951: 1950: 1949: 1948: 1944: 1940: 1936: 1927: 1921: 1917: 1913: 1908: 1907: 1906: 1905: 1900: 1896: 1892: 1888: 1887: 1886: 1882: 1878: 1873: 1865: 1861: 1857: 1852: 1848: 1847: 1846: 1842: 1838: 1834: 1833: 1832: 1831: 1830: 1829: 1828: 1827: 1823: 1819: 1808: 1804: 1800: 1799:Baroque Cycle 1796: 1792: 1787: 1783: 1782: 1771: 1767: 1763: 1759: 1754: 1753: 1752: 1751: 1747: 1743: 1742:69.23.106.111 1734: 1732: 1731: 1726: 1720: 1718: 1716: 1703: 1701: 1700: 1696: 1692: 1682: 1680: 1676: 1672: 1671:86.212.100.31 1668: 1659:Etymology (!) 1658: 1656: 1650: 1646: 1642: 1637: 1636: 1635: 1632: 1628: 1627:71.222.225.46 1624: 1617: 1613: 1612: 1609: 1605: 1602: 1599: 1596: 1587: 1584: 1580: 1579: 1578: 1577: 1576: 1575: 1572: 1568: 1564: 1562: 1558: 1554: 1550: 1546: 1541: 1538: 1535: 1533: 1529: 1525: 1520: 1518: 1514: 1510: 1505: 1503: 1499: 1495: 1491: 1487: 1483: 1478: 1474: 1472: 1468: 1464: 1460: 1456: 1452: 1448: 1443: 1439: 1435: 1433: 1428: 1426: 1423:is short for 1422: 1417: 1415: 1411: 1406: 1404: 1400: 1396: 1392: 1387: 1385: 1381: 1373: 1369: 1365: 1362:is short for 1361: 1357: 1353: 1349: 1345: 1342: 1341: 1340: 1334: 1330: 1326: 1322: 1318: 1314: 1313: 1312: 1309: 1305: 1299: 1297: 1296: 1293: 1289: 1288: 1280: 1269: 1265: 1261: 1257: 1252: 1251: 1248: 1244: 1240: 1235: 1234: 1233: 1232: 1229: 1225: 1221: 1209: 1205: 1201: 1196: 1195: 1192: 1188: 1184: 1181:population.-- 1179: 1178: 1177: 1173: 1172: 1165: 1163: 1162: 1159: 1145: 1142: 1138: 1137: 1136: 1135: 1134: 1133: 1130: 1126: 1120: 1119: 1116: 1108: 1105: 1100: 1092: 1090: 1089: 1086: 1078: 1075: 1067: 1064: 1058: 1057: 1056: 1054: 1049: 1045: 1037: 1034: 1026: 1023: 1018: 1014: 1013: 1010: 1006: 1002: 998: 997: 996: 994: 988: 986: 981: 977: 970: 967: 965: 962: 960: 956: 952: 948: 943: 941: 937: 930: 927: 922: 921: 920: 918: 914: 910: 903: 900: 892: 889: 884: 880: 876: 875: 874: 871: 864: 861: 856: 855: 854: 851: 850:Manson Family 846: 845: 841: 837: 833: 829: 825: 821: 817: 810: 807: 799: 796: 791: 787: 786: 783: 780: 775: 774: 771: 768: 763: 762: 761: 759: 755: 749: 743: 740: 732: 729: 724: 723: 718: 715: 710: 709: 708: 705: 700: 699: 698: 695: 687: 684: 676: 673: 668: 667: 666: 665: 662: 658: 652: 651: 646: 645: 642: 639: 634: 633: 632: 630: 621: 617: 613: 609: 604: 603: 602: 601: 598: 594: 587: 585: 584: 581: 573: 571: 570: 567: 559: 557: 549: 546: 542: 541: 540: 539: 538: 535: 530: 529: 526: 518: 514: 510: 506: 502: 501: 498: 494: 490: 486: 483: 482: 479: 475: 471: 466: 465: 464: 463: 460: 451: 447: 443: 439: 435: 434: 433: 432: 429: 417: 414: 410: 409: 408: 407: 406: 405: 404: 403: 400: 396: 384: 381: 377: 376: 375: 372: 367: 366: 365: 364: 363: 362: 359: 355: 354:Breton people 351: 343: 329: 325: 321: 317: 316: 315: 314: 313: 312: 311: 310: 309: 308: 307: 306: 305: 303: 299: 295: 291: 270: 269: 268: 267: 266: 265: 264: 263: 262: 261: 260: 259: 248: 244: 240: 236: 231: 230: 229: 228: 227: 226: 225: 224: 223: 222: 213: 209: 205: 200: 199: 198: 197: 196: 195: 194: 193: 186: 182: 178: 174: 170: 169: 168: 167: 166: 165: 160: 156: 152: 147: 146: 145: 144: 141: 137: 133: 128: 127: 126: 123: 116: 115: 114: 108: 105: 104: 101: 96: 89: 83: 80: 78: 75: 73: 70: 67: 63: 61: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 2952: 2947: 2931:76.8.165.163 2925:— Preceding 2922: 2912: 2900:76.8.165.163 2894:— Preceding 2890: 2884: 2880: 2873: 2869: 2863: 2851:76.8.165.163 2845:— Preceding 2839: 2833: 2827: 2821: 2815: 2808: 2805: 2798: 2795: 2792: 2787: 2784: 2781: 2774: 2769: 2765: 2761: 2758: 2754: 2750: 2745: 2742: 2730:76.8.165.163 2724:— Preceding 2721: 2715: 2706: 2702: 2696: 2643:76.8.165.163 2637:— Preceding 2632: 2628: 2623: 2620: 2616: 2612: 2606: 2603: 2599: 2596: 2592: 2522:do all agree 2521: 2516: 2514: 2491: 2458: 2441:24.30.38.213 2430: 2418:24.30.38.213 2407: 2400: 2396: 2379:24.30.38.213 2369: 2363: 2359: 2356: 2333:— Preceding 2329: 2325: 2321: 2316: 2312: 2307: 2303: 2298: 2293: 2276:24.30.38.213 2267: 2264: 2261: 2258:John Collins 2241: 2224:24.30.38.213 2215: 2208: 2204: 2182: 2165:24.30.38.213 2155: 2133:24.30.38.213 2124: 2120: 2108:24.30.38.213 2099: 2095: 2055:24.30.38.213 2045: 2031: 1971:last version 1931: 1850: 1802: 1801:novels, so, 1791:My non-NPOV: 1790: 1785: 1780: 1775: 1738: 1714: 1713: 1707: 1688: 1662: 1653: 1618: 1614: 1606: 1603: 1600: 1594: 1592: 1569: 1565: 1560: 1556: 1552: 1548: 1544: 1542: 1539: 1536: 1531: 1527: 1523: 1521: 1516: 1512: 1508: 1506: 1501: 1497: 1493: 1489: 1485: 1481: 1479: 1475: 1470: 1466: 1462: 1458: 1454: 1450: 1446: 1444: 1440: 1436: 1429: 1424: 1420: 1418: 1413: 1412:; even with 1409: 1407: 1402: 1398: 1394: 1390: 1388: 1383: 1377: 1363: 1359: 1343: 1338: 1310: 1306: 1304:Hello, All. 1303: 1285: 1273: 1223: 1217: 1174: 1169: 1158:66.26.79.152 1155: 1121: 1096: 1081: 1040: 989: 984: 979: 973: 963: 958: 954: 951:Sasketchewan 944: 933: 906: 870:Mariah Carey 867: 847: 843: 839: 828:Barack Obama 819: 813: 750: 746: 696: 692: 649: 625: 595: 591: 577: 563: 554: 536: 531: 522: 468:ancestors.-- 455: 452:Wise surname 424: 391: 347: 285: 234: 204:71.102.2.206 172: 130:ancestors.-- 124: 120: 112: 100:DavidWBrooks 98:to what. - 94: 93: 65: 43: 37: 2435:—Preceding 2412:—Preceding 2373:—Preceding 2339:99.9.73.221 2270:—Preceding 2218:—Preceding 2159:—Preceding 2127:—Preceding 2102:—Preceding 2049:—Preceding 1665:—Preceding 1543:Except the 1496:) identity 1129:LDRobertson 824:Halle Berry 820:individuals 597:68.8.167.68 356:articles. 288:—Preceding 149:Tolliver.-- 36:This is an 2663:Dougweller 1372:culturally 1358:ancestry; 1354:, and (3) 1344:Tri-racial 1329:geographic 1323:, and (3) 1097:About the 917:"Bullshit" 883:Ashkenazim 2682:Parkwells 2548:Verklempt 2526:Parkwells 2497:Parkwells 2245:Parkwells 2243:person.-- 2079:Verklempt 2034:Parkwells 2028:Melungeon 2012:Parkwells 1991:Parkwells 1955:Parkwells 1939:Parkwells 1912:Parkwells 1877:Parkwells 1837:Verklempt 1758:Parkwells 1691:Parkwells 1641:Parkwells 1595:Melungeon 1583:Verklempt 1509:ethnicity 1471:non-Anglo 1463:non-white 1453:. Use of 1403:refers to 1399:describes 1395:refers to 1391:describes 1256:Parkwells 1239:Parkwells 1200:Parkwells 1183:Parkwells 1141:Verklempt 1001:Parkwells 947:Sasquatch 940:the crash 926:Badagnani 881:, or the 860:Badagnani 790:ethnicity 779:Badagnani 767:Badagnani 714:Verklempt 704:Badagnani 650:ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 638:Badagnani 622:Moonshine 608:Parkwells 580:Badagnani 566:Verklempt 560:Chestney? 545:Verklempt 534:"black." 519:Etymology 505:Parkwells 489:Parkwells 470:Parkwells 459:Badagnani 438:Parkwells 428:Badagnani 413:Verklempt 399:Badagnani 380:Verklempt 371:Verklempt 358:Badagnani 320:Parkwells 239:Parkwells 177:Parkwells 151:Parkwells 132:Parkwells 82:Archive 5 77:Archive 4 72:Archive 3 66:Archive 2 60:Archive 1 2927:unsigned 2896:unsigned 2847:unsigned 2726:unsigned 2639:unsigned 2575:contribs 2479:contribs 2437:unsigned 2414:unsigned 2375:unsigned 2335:unsigned 2272:unsigned 2220:unsigned 2161:unsigned 2129:unsigned 2104:unsigned 2051:unsigned 1910:facts.-- 1891:Bridgman 1856:Bridgman 1854:rewrite) 1851:replaced 1818:Bridgman 1786:freaking 1667:unsigned 1623:unsigned 1513:Hispanic 1494:cultural 1486:cultural 1451:cultural 1348:European 1333:cultural 1317:European 1292:Ling.Nut 1048:Vandalia 1017:Mongolia 788:Look at 369:self-ID. 290:unsigned 1557:genetic 1549:genetic 1528:genetic 1492:(i.e., 1421:isolate 1360:isolate 1352:African 1321:African 1198:many.-- 1044:Vandals 957:? How 955:notable 848:So the 656:ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ 272:brought 171:In his 39:archive 2492:except 2353:Racism 1975:Onorem 1803:tamam, 1561:ethnic 1553:ethnic 1545:ethnic 1532:racial 1490:ethnic 1482:ethnic 1455:ethnic 1447:ethnic 1432:WP:MOS 1380:WP:MOS 1335:sense. 959:boring 574:Royer? 2566:Barek 2517:after 2470:Barek 2466:WP:EL 2462:WP:EL 1717:levse 1311:Old: 1228:Griot 1110:Chiss 1069:Chiss 1028:Chiss 985:dated 894:Chiss 801:Chiss 734:Chiss 678:Chiss 350:Cajun 95:Note: 16:< 2935:talk 2904:talk 2855:talk 2734:talk 2686:talk 2667:talk 2659:this 2647:talk 2571:talk 2552:talk 2530:talk 2501:talk 2475:talk 2445:talk 2422:talk 2383:talk 2343:talk 2280:talk 2249:talk 2228:talk 2169:talk 2137:talk 2112:talk 2083:talk 2059:talk 2038:talk 2016:talk 1995:talk 1959:talk 1943:talk 1916:talk 1895:talk 1881:talk 1860:talk 1841:talk 1822:talk 1779:the 1762:talk 1746:talk 1724:Talk 1704:Refs 1695:talk 1675:talk 1645:talk 1631:talk 1524:race 1517:race 1260:talk 1243:talk 1204:talk 1187:talk 1005:talk 879:Roma 612:talk 509:talk 493:talk 474:talk 442:talk 324:talk 298:talk 243:talk 233:his 208:talk 181:talk 155:talk 136:talk 1981:Dil 1502:not 1498:and 1414:and 1410:and 1370:or 1331:or 1113:Boy 1101:. 1072:Boy 1031:Boy 1019:. 911:or 897:Boy 842:... 826:or 804:Boy 737:Boy 681:Boy 525:THB 352:or 344:Box 2937:) 2906:) 2857:) 2736:) 2688:) 2669:) 2649:) 2579:- 2573:• 2554:) 2532:) 2503:) 2483:- 2477:• 2447:) 2424:) 2385:) 2345:) 2282:) 2251:) 2230:) 2171:) 2139:) 2114:) 2085:) 2077:). 2061:) 2040:) 2018:) 1997:) 1961:) 1945:) 1918:) 1897:) 1883:) 1862:) 1843:) 1824:) 1764:) 1748:) 1727:• 1721:• 1710:— 1697:) 1677:) 1647:) 1639:-- 1384:as 1374:). 1290:. 1282:}} 1276:{{ 1262:) 1245:) 1206:) 1189:) 1007:) 980:A1 659:) 614:) 511:) 495:) 476:) 444:) 326:) 300:) 245:) 210:) 183:) 157:) 138:) 2933:( 2902:( 2853:( 2732:( 2684:( 2665:( 2645:( 2577:) 2569:( 2550:( 2528:( 2499:( 2481:) 2473:( 2443:( 2420:( 2381:( 2341:( 2278:( 2247:( 2226:( 2167:( 2135:( 2110:( 2081:( 2057:( 2036:( 2014:( 1993:( 1978:♠ 1957:( 1941:( 1914:( 1893:( 1879:( 1858:( 1839:( 1820:( 1760:( 1744:( 1715:R 1693:( 1673:( 1643:( 1629:( 1555:/ 1547:/ 1258:( 1241:( 1202:( 1185:( 1003:( 653:( 610:( 507:( 491:( 472:( 440:( 322:( 296:( 241:( 206:( 179:( 153:( 134:( 50:.

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