109:
and from work. At that time I lived in
Belvidere, Kent. To us ragtag apprentices the "b" in his surname was silent hence he was Mickey Gamon to us.Mick was an accomplish yarn spinner, thus during our tea breaks you would find Mick at the centre of a group of apprentices spewing forth tales and jokes whilst puffing on our favourite fags âPlayers Weightsâ bought in packets of 5 from our 12/6d weekly wages. Mick would have known me then as âYokelâ a nickname assigned because of my very broad âampshire accent. I also have faint recall that he won an award in recognition of his craftsmanship in the tool room he was certainly highly regarded in that respect. Frequently on our way home after work Mick would stop off at Erith Playhouse for rehearsals where he was active in the Amateur Dramatic Society. Mickey never discussed his drama interests with his fellow apprentices so it was a shocking surprise when he announced in 1960 he was quitting his apprenticeship to attend drama school. I among others tried to dissuade him and urged him to finish his near completed apprenticeship before doing so, but without avail. I have read many accounts of Sir Michaelâs youth none have so far got it quite right in detail, so I decided to put on record my recollections. Mick has earned a reputation for telling porkies, being sparing with the truth to suit his purpose, misleading the gulable , particularly the media. Well I can tell you this has been his forte all his adult life and why he is such an accomplished actor. He was always most adept and able at merging fact and fiction in a most convincing and effortless manner so that nobody knew which was which, maybe not even Michael . Since then finished my apprenticeship and I immigrated to Canada in â67. and I never heard of Micky again until I saw him in the film TheTurtle Diary and recognized my old mate. On telling my wife âI know him thatâs my mate from Vickers!â she just rolled her eyes and laughed. Since then I have attempted to contact Mick to meet up when back in UK but so far without success.
1522:
account issues such as residency and self-identity. Citizenship is a purely legal concept determined purely by whether the government recognises the individual as a member of their state. This issue is far more clear cut. Having been born in
Ireland Michael Gambon is an Irish citizen until he renounces it. By listing his citizenship as solely British you are therefore stating that he is no longer Irish without evidence that shows that this is the case.
31:
1737:
interview. 2005 - "Well I am Irish and so I have a natural Irish accent", in comparison to 2010 - "I suppose I can't get away from it, I'm
English, aren't I?" See how he answers with a question? He is uncertain about calling himself English, but not about calling himself Irish. What I'm arguing for is not that he is identified as just Irish, but to be identified as Irish-British, and I have given enough evidence for this to be changed.
981:
2711:
discussion, it's all "British this, grunt, British that", you are repetitive and all you engage in is nationalistic nonsense and editing, I suggest you get a hobby or an organization where you can fill out your racist nationalistic desires to your hearts content, perhaps the BNP, National Front or EDL would be a better outlet for you than
Knowledge (XXG). Strongbow is a horrible drink by the way, might I suggest Magners instead. ;)
2243:
the Order of the
British Empire, Order of the Bath etc. Knight Bachelors are never honorary, and are always given to subjects of the Queen. Now, Northern Ireland is part of the UK, and people from there routinely describe themselves as "Irish". That word alone does not necessarily mean the speaker is a citizen of the Republic, although it could. But he himself has said he's English. Case closed. --
1924:
those Celts with their tree gods thinking the
English are a bunch of neo-imperialist invaders who all support the BNP/EDL, right? Damn those English for trying to steal great men like M. Gambon! The Queen will soon release her evil flying monkey's from the balcony of Buckingham palace (built on the skulls of a million Celts of course!) to take the rest of this Island for the English! Mwahahaha!--
1816:
Irish-British, with perhaps a link to the Irish emigration to
England. I think this would settle all the arguments here once and for all, and at the end of the day, it is the fairest option. The page was set to this up till last year, where it seemed to suddenly change to solely British. I see no discussion on this change so I don't see how that wasn't flagged as vandalism and changed back.
1256:
956:, by virtue of the fact that they are Scots, same for the English, Welsh and Northern Irish, all of them are British whether they like it or not. Being knighted does not confer British citizenship, but the point is, if he was not legally a British citizen, he would not have received a "full" (my word for it) knighthood, it would have been an "honorary" knighthood like Bob Geldof's. â
1165:. It seems that he has joint citizenship, and so the clearest thing for the lead would be to say just that: "...is an actor with joint British and Irish citizenship who...". "Irish-British" is unclear and sounds like he is British with Irish ancestry ("Italian American"). "Irish-born British" sounds like it is not accurate, assuming it is true that he is of dual nationality. --
1148:- It appears that he is both Irish and British, both citizenship-wise and culturally. The fact that he calls himself "Irish" in the sources listed above means that "Irish-born British" is not really acceptable. We, as editors, cannot pick and choose one nationality over the other for favored treatment. Both Irish and British should be presented equally to the readers. --
2567:
Did I type that in
Swahili or something? He was asked point blank whether he feels Irish and he says no. Was that not the criterea you asked for above? You, with a username like that, have come here and are intent on trying to emphasise that Gambon should be Irish first and then British, and you have
1767:
Then why would he be asking for confirmation on his own words? And you have yet to give me a reason why it can't be put down that he is Irish-British. I have no source that says he identifies himself as both Irish and
British, however having one source say he is English and another saying he is Irish
853:
point to the comment about Gambon's sexual orientation not being much debated? By pointing this out, isn't it suggesting that salacious discussion of other people's sexuality is acceptable? Unless there is something substantive to say on the matter, I think this reference should be deleted. Knowledge
2710:
Ironic, on the contrary,it seems you don't, you keep referring to an interview where he never said he wasn't Irish, and you ignore all the evidence that contradicts what you are saying in recent interviews. It is clear that you have no interest in making constructive edits or engaging in intelligent
2652:
Do you even bother reading other people's comments? He's says he's Irish in the context of his Irish heritage and background, which allows him to put on a good Irish accent. That's not 'clearly', not by a long shot. On the other hand, we have a source in which he straight up says he's an
Englishman,
108:
I met Mickey Gambon early in 1957 when we both signed on as part of a group of fifty apprentices age 16 and up at Vickers Armstrongâs Crayford Works in Kent for a 5 year apprenticeship, he as a Toolmaker me a Fitter & Turner. We became mates partly because we shared the same cycle route daily to
1521:
I've had the addition of his Irish citizenship reverted twice on the basis that having only British as his citizenship is "established by consensus" and "more accurate". All the discussion above is about what to state as his nationality in the lead. This is a different concept that has to take into
665:
I don't think the reference offered is as clear-cut as believed by Filastin anyway, it's not at all clear he's talking about his legal nationality. He was born in Ireland, so even if he is now solely a British citizen, he undoubtedly feels Irish to some extent (and how many Americans, for example,
489:
Michael Gambon: 'Well I am Irish and so I have a natural Irish accent and I remember Richard playing this and I thought well I'll chuck a bit of Irish in. No-one's ever questioned it. The first director said what's that funny accent you've got. I said it's a bit of Irish. He said oh well that's all
228:
I don't understand the problem with these edits. I see that you can't explain on the user's talk page, but could you explain here? They seem reasonable edits to me (i.e. not wanton vandalism). You say they are unsourced, but few of the performances are individually sourced. I am not, nor acquainted
2770:
Oh here we go, I was wondering how long it would take before you snapped and launched into a typical cliche anti-English rant. Are you one of those people that thinks that history means you yourself can't be racist, jingoistic, nationalistic etc.? You accuse me of all of that, but look in a bloody
2242:
One thing that some people seem to have overlooked is that Gambon is a Knight Bachelor. That virtually proves he's a British subject or at least a citizen of a Commonwealth realm. Because whenever non-subjects are awarded honorary knighthoods, it is always done via membership of an order such as
2131:
This is a little different to Terry Wogan, as this has come from the horses mouth. I DO find it amusing how he has suddenly decided he's English - or was he just having people on about the Irish thing? Or maybe he's having people on now? He must of been kidding about having an Irish accent though.
1923:
Oh noes! It's evil English imperialism at work on wikipedia! Quick lock up your daughters the maurading anglo-saxons are coming!...wait that's just Bill and his Grandma carrying the shopping they struggle to buy every week, the reality faced by more than a few people in England. Still doesn't stop
1459:
Read the bloody source provided. Sir Michael now identifies himself as English. That was the originally logic that was used to describe him as Irish. You can't have it both ways. If someone can find a newer source to the contrary then fine, but until then stop changing it. It's vandalism, pure and
820:
It always did describe him as Irish-British. I really don't think we can draw too many conclusions from the BBC article cited anyway, it's a throwaway remark in the context of him using an Irish accent for something. But now we seem to have agreed that the current wording is OK, so lets leave it
125:
It would be nice to see a picture of Mickey in the old days as Knowledge (XXG) suffers from its lack of eligibility to publish photos, he certainly "has it" as an actor and ranks amongst the best that I have seen in awkward roles, it's amazing how difficult these people are to contact. Airing your
2810:
I am happy for the article to just say he is English in the lead. He spent most of his youth in England and has British nationality. It says later that he was born in Ireland and worked there a while, but I see no burning need to say Irish in the lead if he is happy to say he does not feel Irish.
2612:
What interviews? Of the three links, two are from 2004, which leaves one singluar inteview, which he says Irish once in the context that he is of Irish ancestry. On the other hand, we have a source in which he said straight up that he does not self-identify as Irish, and instead considers himself
2035:
You are right, that interview clearly trumps the sources that are used to cite him as Irish. This has been pointed out many times but is clearly being ignored by the O'Knowledge (XXG) brigade. Unless anyone can provide a more recent source that contradicts this, I'll simply go ahead and change it
650:
We could dodge it to some extent and say "Irish born British resident". There was a long-standing consensus for the previous wording however which Filastin has challenged, but we should stick with the previous wording until a new consensus emerges. It is wrong to simply say he's Irish however.
1381:
I think you can take for granted that even the very laziest of Actors would read the source material for the screenplay to gain background/insight into a film he/she was in, sometimes quite extensively so they can let some of the flavour of the books seep into their performances - The characters
774:
Do we know he still actually holds Irish citizenship? Yes we have one cite where he describes himself as being Irish, but as that is as much a matter of "ethnicity" as citizenship, we dobn't know that he meant it in terms of citizenship. I don't think the quote and the context it comes from is
1748:
Well no, the fact that he's answered with a question doesn't mean he's uncertain, that's frankly simply you twistin)g his words to suit yourself. Deciding that there's a hidden meaning behind it based on a previous interview is original research. What we have is the most up to date source where
1721:
That interview was in 2005, where as the one with The Arts Desk was in 2010. I believe it's fair that the latest one should be given precendent. Plus, the two aren't exactly comparable. The BBC interview is more talking about his heritage and upbringing, where as the 2010 interview he was asked
801:
I reject this notion that describing oneself as Irish is merely representative of ethnicity and not nationality. He says he's Irish and he was born in Dublin. The only way he would no longer be a Irish citizen would be if he renounced it. If anything we should describe him as "Irish-British" or
410:
I agree with Thwarted Efforts. You can't be a member of the British nobility and be from ROI unless you have a hereditary title created prior to parts of Ireland becoming independant. His nationality is British and such should be noted in the first sentence. Sources such as Encarta state him as
1797:
In mine, too. I do feel this conversation is lost high up the page here. There are several threads with the same title or near the same on this page and this is the first. With both of you giving your permission, I am moving it so that other interested editors are more likely to read it it.
1782:
He's not asking for confirmation, it's a rhetorical question, a common language mannerism and device in the English language. I have already told you why; Knowledge (XXG) is a encyclopedia of verified sources. The most recent source we have on Gambon's indentification of his nationality is him
2788:
Don't make me laugh, I called you out on what you are, than you try to deflect from yourself by labelling me and what I said as being "anti-English", thus suggesting to people that I am just a racist, pray do tell me, what in my comment is anti-English? Oh wait ther isn't anything. Absolutely
680:
He's not just British resident though, he is a British citizen. In fact to be completely honest we don't actually know for sure he's an Irish citizen, very likely he is, but no real firm evidence other than a self-identification (which has nothing to do with your nationality/citizenship.) Ian
1736:
I understand that the source I gave was older than yours, however, using the fact that he was asked directly is not important in this case as much as the answer is, and reading both you can see that the answer in the 2005 interview was direct, not questioning as if uncertain like in the 2010
1815:
The fact that he identified himself as British does not somehow magically take away the fact that he is a citizen of both Ireland and England. It doesn't need to be changed to just Irish, as I know that is as incorrect as calling him just British, I want it to be changed to British-Irish or
737:
Whilst he's Irish-born, and may well regard himself as "ethnically" Irish, there's no doubt that he holds British nationality, or he would not have a substantive knighthood. The long-standing version of the lead addresses both aspects of this, which are nto necessarily mutually exclusive.
1359:
A change recently made in this article says that Gambon has in fact readthe books, and even says that interviews on the DVD release of the prisoner of azkaban prove it. It doesn't give any citation though, and the change was made very recently by an unregistered user (granted, I am also an
168:
Gambon has been created a Knight Bachelor and a Companion of the British Empire (CBE). To date he has not been created a Knight of the British Empire (KBE). As a Knight Bachelor, he is entitled to be styled 'Sir'. Unlike other British knighthoods, Knights Bachelor do not have a postnominal
2061:
72? Ahem. I never really questioned his Irishness, I mean why the hell would I? He (in the older source) Self-identified as such and that's to be respected. OK OK, so it's now changed, and I have the same level of respect. The only thing I disagreed with him on was his accent, it has a
3247:
I think it would be better to ask for an admin to close it than to just go into edit warring and dispute resolution. Has an attempt been made to resolve it on the talk page is the first question at dispute resolution. Then an admin can decide if there is no obvious resolution here.
2876:, not because I particularly care whether he is called English or Irish, but because "self-identification" has no place in the first sentence of a biographical article. It's a useless enough argument even on a talk page! What's wrong with "Irish-born English actor", as it says on
1282:; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Knowledge (XXG). This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
1201:
His ethnicity is Irish and his nationality is Irish, he is merely an Irish man living in Britain ,that does not equate to being Irish-British, that is like saying Pierce Brosnan is Irish-American, stop this POV nonsense,Sean Connery lives in Marbella and it doesn't make him a
2973:: Self-identification is one of the the least useful criteria of nationality in most cases, especially with somebody who says "I am Irish" or "I am not Irish" depending on the interview or the time of year. Sources are the best measure: if there are comparable numbers of
2597:
You are deliberately ignoring the recent interviews where he described and called himself Irish, to be honest your attitude does not surprise me 99% of your edits consist of just adding "British" to articles. I don't have time for your immature nationalistic fanaticism.
329:
was an American actor born in England. Gambon has been a British citizen long before he took to the stage, and if the passionate users reverting this page to state that he is Irish wish to keep it that way, could they please remove the Sir and OBE. You can't have both.
1577:
Hello, I am a writer from Knowledge (XXG), I saw the article by the actor Michael Gambon and I think this a bit incomplete. I would like rellernar that voids, but that the article should be unprotected. Please, who has Semi-protected so that unprotected. Thank you
3174:
I've just been given a DR/N notice because of some edit warring here. What I'd like to know is why the RfrC wasn't closed properly and so get some baseline before going into dispute resolution. If you want an admin to close an RfC the place to put in a request is
2691:
I take it you don't understand the concept of puting things into context if you're asking things like that? And if you're going to talk about saying specifically, do you know what he does specifically say? That's right, that he is English and doesn't identify as
2385:
www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/theatre-features/9596580/Michael-Gambon-Trevor-Nunn-and-Eileen-Atkins-on-a-Beckett-weve-never-seen.html and www.mugglenet.com/mediasp/2004/november/michaelgambonrobbiecoltrane.shtml Michael Gambon descrbes himself as Irish.
2495:
Orwould it be more convenient if those quotations from the exact same 2010 interview along with the above interview are ignored? This is why the excuses being made fro leaving out him being Irish is absurd and is nothing more than nationalistic narrow-minded
912:
The fact that there are editors here who imply that being knighted makes them British is a joke, that is all politically motivated nonsense,Alex Ferguson and Sean Connery are both Scotsmen with knighthoods yet they are not described as British, I am changing
508:
We have no reference as good as this with his nationality. Maybe it was changed, maybe he is currently living in Ireland between filming, we do not know. The reference provided is 2005, the latest from a reputable source, the BBC, and in Gambon's own words.
2475:, and I played just a slight touch of Trinity College Dublin. That light lilt. I did that and Alfonso said, "What's the accent here?" I said, "Irish." He said, "That's OK." And no one's ever mentioned it. I'm a little bit more camp, I think, a bit lighter."
3055:
Ok trolls I'll bite, show me word for word what have I just recently "retrospectively edited" to take things out of context in my 'favour'. You still have not answered my question "Allthestrongbowintheworld", what did I say was anti-English as you claim?
400:
was a compromise, but even that was vandalised. I'll try again with a note to refer to this talkpage. Of course we shouldn't forget that Irish ancestry is one of Knowledge (XXG)'s running jokes, so doubtless I'll be doing the same edits over and over
618:
I don't think we have a style guide for how this would be handled. Normally I'd just suggest alphabetical order as that is normal general styling, but some may claim that is putting greater weight on his British citizenship over the Irish. How about
2384:
The source that a few editors who hold unwavering nationalistic perspectives is full of contradictions and stems back from 2010, they are using that interview to "trump" a previous one from 2012 regarding him describing himself as Irish, where here
3233:. Just put {{discussion-top|xxx}} at the top and {{discussion-bottom}} at the bottom. the "xxx" text in the header can be something like "No resolution. Taken to DRN". You can then delete your request at AN. They'll be relieved, I can assure you.
756:
I don't disagree but he describes himself as "Irish" and he is undoubtedly an Irish citizen. The rule on Knowledge (XXG) is that we should describe people as they describe themselves. Do you have a source where he describes himself as "British"? â
570:
If we must list someone's nationality (which I don't think we should be doing) we should probably list his as dual nationality as we know for a fact that he has British Citizenship due to his knighthood, and was born in Ireland so most likely has
531:
He couldn't have a substantive knighthood without holding British nationality. He is still "ethnically" Irish of course, so he's not necessarily referring to his present legal nationality in this quote (possibly he holds dual nationality.
2440:
It trumps nothing unless he said in the interview he no longer identifies as Irish, that is a poor excuse for omitting his Irish identity, you are really clutching at straws here, it is quite unbelievable looking at these excuses coming
2935:'Irish born' strikes me rather like 'Catholic born', next we'll have 'Unionist born' or 'capitalist born'. I think 'born in Ireland' or 'born of Irish parents' describes the situation better in most circumstances than 'Irish born'.
2677:"He's says he's Irish only in the context of his Irish heritage and background" I am sorry, did he specifically say that? You ramble on about context, you really are clutching at straws, perhaps you should follow your own advice.
2552:
I am sorry but that interview you are referring and the recent Telegraph interview from a few months ago contradicts what you are saying. I suggest that you take your point-scoring,in-your-face nationalistic attitude elsewhere.
883:
Perhaps a comment could be made about Gambon's appearance with Paul Merton on Room 101, where he came across as a rebarbative, cranky individual until presented with a watchmaker's lathe, showing rather more humanity as a
2410:
An interview from 2010 trumps one from 2004. As discussed above, if he identified as Irish in 2004 and English in 2010, the 2010 ref is the way to go. It states his birthplace plenty of times in the article; what's the
169:
entitlement, so Gambon's correct full style is 'Sir Michael John Gambon, CBE'. The reference reflecting his creation as a Knight Bachelor is a primary source - ie the Gazette entry in which his award was promulgated.
1225:. "An actor with joint British and Irish citizenship" is fine. If in doubt, tell it like it is. Legal citizenship is not POV. Nationality has become a political football in Knowledge (XXG) articles and it gets too
2394:
He was born and raised in Ireland to Irish parents during his youth, he states that he is Irish in the interview but also identifies as English. He has never renounced his Irish identity so it should not be left
1783:
describing himself as English. Not only does he describe himself as English, but he is given a choice of Irish as well but chooses not to identify himself as such. That is pretty definitive in my opinion. --
3198:
The great majority of RfCs are not closed by uninvolved editors. The template is automatically removed after thirty days. Most just get archived, but there's probably no automatic archiving on this page.
3088:
I agree JonC, that is what they should do, maybe yourself too, at least OCorcrain tried to have a neutral compromise for everyone. All your one-sided uncompromising nationalistic bullshit is ridiculous.
1182:. I second FormerIP's suggestion of "...is an actor with joint British and Irish citizenship who...". This states the facts of the matter without getting tied up in "Irishness" or "Britishness". â
353:
I dare say, but Gambon is British and as is the custom round here his nationality should be presented in the opening paragraph. I have no clue as to why it is constantly meddled with, when
1333:
Is perfectly acceptable. You have to appreciate that A, 66 of 71 years in a country you would be automatically of that nation also the big clue is, his father made him a BRITISH citizen
550:
What I am thinking is, could he hold either dual nationality or could his nationality have changed since the knighthood, it is likely in some way, if he himself considers himself Irish?--
463:
I have removed all the pipes to Alexandr Ostrovsky from the play titles. It is clear that most of the plays are not by him (e.g. it would be hard from him to have written a play about
2635:
2488:
2370:
1089:(with a link to the Irish migration to Great Britain article) is a better descriptor, particularly given that he's explicitly stated "I am Irish" in at least 2 separate interviews
3322:
Well I've written a couple of lines there on what I thought about the matter. No comments about them warring except my remark implies I think both of the warring sides are wrong.
2956:, the lede should be revised, the source that the editor's opposing the change use is invalid considering Michael Gambon's recent comments in the recent interview mentioned above.
2279:
303:
Whether it is one of his best known TV roles is open to debate. In any event, his performance as Maigret is already mentioned in the article if you would read it a bit closer.
1041:
Someone should check the cast of the '70s movie/TV film "Catholics, starring Trevor Howard and Martin Sheen. I believe Gambon played one of the monks in an Irish monastery.
1009:
Speedy deletions at commons tend to take longer than they do on Knowledge (XXG), so there is no rush to respond. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (
87:, when he claimed to have something like 16 lathes. It's difficult to know whether he was joking or not though, especially as he added that this collection was "bigger than
2977:(i.e. not interviews) saying he is Irish, English or Irish-English then the opening sentence should reflect that, but in a neutral way and preferably without the refs.
2861:
Fuck me pink it is tiresome seeing the same editors popping up on articles trying to remove any mention of people's Irishness, bunch of clowns with nothing better to do.
666:
would call themselves Irish, even though they've never been there, and Irish birth is 2-3 generations back?). He's been resident in the UK for about 60 of his 68 years.
2771:
mirror. It really isn't all that hard to comprehend- Gambon is ethnically part Irish, but clearly doesn't identify as such, and instead considers himself English.--
2584:
1830:
Although I sympathise with the point you are making, neither British-Irish nor Irish-British are recognised expressions in this country ... whereas in the USA they
1382:
which tend to be much less defined in a script where space is a premium where a character can be vastly expanded apon over the course of what were there, 7 books?
1654:
In that case, could this be changed to Irish-British then? As all I see written is English. And on a side note, an accent does not define a person's nationality.
437:
Gambon remains married to his first wife legally, but Phillipa Hart is listed as his spouse. They are not married, and it is unclear if they even live together.
3012:
I like how user ĂCorcrĂĄin has retrospectively edited his posts over a month after this debate has died in an attempt to put things out of context in his favour--
1537:
I agree on this one, describing his nationality and stating his legal citizenships (of which it is possible to have more than one) are two different concepts.--
2369:
I am completely open to including the fact that he self-identifies as English as per the interview, but he also self-identifies as Irish per these interviews:
1482:
Hmmm OK I see it now, but it's awful the way you guys treat it as point-scoring. This should be about fact-seeking, as always, and respecting BLP. Always. --
2388:
Hence I feel it is wrong and inaccurate for certain editors to deliberately leave this fact due to nationalistic point-scoring, irrespective of the facts.
1954:
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1406:
HE IS ASKED, BY RTE, DO YOU FEEL IRISH? HE SAYS NO. I'VE BEEN HER FAR TOO LONG. IN THE ARTICLE ITSELF IT NOTES THAT HIS FATHER NATURALISED HIM AS A BRIT.
681:
Paisley, for example, has described himself as Irish on many occasions, yet I'm sure isn't an Irish citizen, it doesn't necessarily mean the same thing.
3294:
That's because they're waiting for someone to take up the dispute and set the ground rules rather than just have them continue the arguments like here.
3215:
I will take responsibility for that since I opened it. I will put in a request since we got nowhere with it, thanks for bringing that to my attention.
932:
Michael Gambon British. It's the other way round: he must have held British nationality, otherwise he couldn't have received a substantive knighthood.
2017:
The shouty person above does sort of have a point in the above sections. In contrast to the 2004/05 BBC interviews used to describe him as Irish, the
1085:
to have been born in Ireland, rather than someone who's Irish and emigrated to Britain, later becoming a British citizen. I think Irish-British or
411:
British, but born in Ireland. I think we ought to change it to "Irish-born British", such (as TE rightly said) is wikipedia convention. Regards, --
2636:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/theatre-features/9596580/Michael-Gambon-Trevor-Nunn-and-Eileen-Atkins-on-a-Beckett-weve-never-seen.html
2489:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/theatre-features/9596580/Michael-Gambon-Trevor-Nunn-and-Eileen-Atkins-on-a-Beckett-weve-never-seen.html
2371:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/theatre-features/9596580/Michael-Gambon-Trevor-Nunn-and-Eileen-Atkins-on-a-Beckett-weve-never-seen.html
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Also, accusing others of something you yourself are blatantly engaging in will get you no where and only makes yourself look silly.--
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Gambon identifies himself as English, and that is what is reflected. Unless there is a source where he describes himself as British
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2471:"No one ever spoke to me about it. Not a word. On the first film I did which was directed by Alfonso Cuaron I walked in there and
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unregistered user, but you get my point.) I didn't undo it though becuase i'd like some confirmation on if this is true or not.
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English. That is the criterea you asked for, for him to specifically say that, so why are you now trying to move the goal posts?
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after people have answered is not best practice. I have no position on the substantive issue, so I will post a comment below.
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It doesn't encroach on the source for where he describes himself as English. It's not making him any "less" English OR Irish.
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His parents where Irish, he was born in Ireland. Last time I checked, that makes him Irish-British, or the other way round.
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test track is named "Gambon". This is due to the fact that Gambon narrowly avoided a horriffic crash when he went round it.
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I mean the warring editors have failed to engage. They need to make an opening statement before the discussion can begin.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Until very recently, he was self-describing as Irish. He's pretty obviously trolling the nationalists on here!! Lmao. ;-)
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is almost the same thing. So please, give me a valid reason why it can't be changed, and I will pursue this no further.
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shouldn't the list be ordered from earliest to latest, like the theatre section is? The article needs to be consistent.
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ADDITIONALLY LATER, HE SAYS ABOUT GOING FOR AN AUDITION IN DUBLIN AND HOW HE HAD NEVER BEEN OUT OF CAMDEN ALL HIS LIFE.
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is exactly how it is. It is completely not wrong. The last user to make the edit referred to the inclusion of the word
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Unless I've forgotten what 'no' means, that's case closed geezer, he HAS renounced his Irish identity, end of story.--
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by your COMPLETELY MAD RECONNING that makes ADAM CLAYTON OF U2, 13 March 1960 (age 52) Chinnor, Oxfordshire, England
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Sorry I didn't read your edit as I thought you'd just reverted mine. I perfectly happy with the current version. â
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And you are...? How is your first two edits to Knowledge (XXG) have been to talk this talk page, Mr Mystery IP?
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See all the discussions above. He is a British citizen and lives in Britain. That makes him Irish-born British.
3280:. Since editors have so far failed to engage at DRN, I've taken out all mention of nationality until they do.
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I don't think "Irish-born British" is an adequate description at all. It makes it sound like he's British but
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memories would lead to authenication by a third party and eventual inclusion in an authorised history of him.
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The reason he is refered to as English in the lead paragraph is because Gambon identifies himself as English
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Maigret (1992-1993) is one his best-known tv-roles, please add it. I would but the article is protected.
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In WikiWorld, every notable person is assumed to sexually inverted unless proven otherwise by citation.
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If you could be bothered to read the entire inteview, you'd have seen a little down where he was asked
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has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs.
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1894:(born 19 October 1940) is an Irish-born ] actor who has worked in theatre, television and film.
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I did some checking it seems it already has been closed and archived for some time already.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/films/2004/06/01/gary_oldman_michael_gambon_azkaban_interview.shtml
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Continual entry of a pic that does not meet wikistandards and is continually removed.
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I'm naturally Irish and my first accent is Irish, I will speak Irish with my parents
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then you may need to upload it to Knowledge (XXG) (Commons does not allow fair use)
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854:(XXG) is not the place for tabloid sensation, however mildly put. Comments please?
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If you wish to clean all of this up the next time they make their entry plz do so.
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the nerve to say that others are engaging in petty nationalistic point scoring?
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specifically asks him about whether he identifies as Irish and Gambon says no. --
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http://www.mugglenet.com/mediasp/2004/november/michaelgambonrobbiecoltrane.shtml
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Following guidelines, I think we should describe him as he describes himself. â
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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Should the lede refer to Gambon as "Irish born British" or "Irish-British"?
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simple. This is not O'Knowledge (XXG) and Gambon is English, get over it.
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Both the United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland allow dual citizenship.
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1841:. Really, it should be as Michael Gambon would expect to read here â
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/breakfast_with_frost/4548699.stm
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sufficiently clear to make this an over-riding self-identification.
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As far as I can see, nobody has said or implied that being knighted
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If you opened it, then you are allowed to close it yourself. See
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Call him Irish-English or Irish-born English and be done with it!
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OH wait, you weren't talking about that. Here's an Irish Knight:
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should at least merit the showing of this in the opening line.
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Also in this 2010 interview you are referring to he also quoted:
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specifically whether he identifies himself English or Irish. --
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has come up before, also with Merton, when Gambon appeared on
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Here is another interview taken from October 2012 last year!
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during his British phase, but NB has since been removed from
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He is also an Irish citizen, which makes him Irish-British.
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No problem. Citizenship should always be uncontroversial.--
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Michael Gambon is a British actor born in Ireland, same as
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If the image has already been deleted you may want to try
2832:'s lucid posting immediately above with which I concur â
723:"Well I am Irish and so I have a natural Irish accent..."
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with, the 77.209... editor, just an interested observer.
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I ask for people to support the revision of the lede.
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So by your logic we should leave English out because
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Category:Knights Grand Cross of the Order of the Bath
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Play the game you have to stick to ONE rule for all.
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STOP CLAIMING THE GUY AS IRISH BECAUSE HES TALENTED.
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File:Gambon in 2009.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion
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Closing this as no consensus following a request on
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Helluva name! I consider his being a knight of the
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Linking of items that do not go to the correct page.
1293:If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no
2418:and stop edit-warring. If you have been reverted,
1424:The Edge, DAVE EVANS. ENGLISH with WELSH parents.
972:File:Gambon 2011.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion
2209:stretching it a bit being a British knight. --
715:Gambon being British is footnoted with a link to
2102:radio and television broadcaster who holds dual
1403:WILL YOU PLEASE GO TO THE LINK OF THE INTERVIEW
2422:re-revert, or you'll find yourself in trouble.
1940:possibly the seat of British learning, no less?
3034:) post at the bottom of this page, I wonder â
2915:I am just looking for the lede to be revised.
1884:Could it be possible that today's revision by
2493:"An interview from 2012 trumps one from 2010"
1975:THERE HAS AND WILL NEVER BE AN IRISH KNIGHT
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2653:and straight up doesn't identify as Irish.--
2634:This interview from just a few months ago,
1608:, but could make no sense of the sentences.
1265:, has been nominated for speedy deletion at
990:, has been nominated for speedy deletion at
112:Tom Thornton Parksville BC Canad a e-mail :
3070:Get a grip and go do something productive.
2310:His citizenship is both Irish and British.
1622:It was written four and a half years ago,
139:
3026:"Hear, hear!" to that ... and why didn't
396:is actually how the article started out.
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596:I believe that he should he classified
1455:Stop changing his nationality to Irish
1308:This notification is provided by a Bot
1016:This notification is provided by a Bot
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
2811:Born in Ireland is as far as I'd go.
2638:, he clearly states that he is Irish.
1753:Irish, we can't really say as much --
1688:He seems to be disputing this himself
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2994:, what do you expect, he's an actor.
2360:The following discussion is closed.
3170:Why wasn't the RfC closed properly?
1297:then it cannot be uploaded or used.
1600:I understood that, up to the word
361:as 'vandalism'. I mean, what the?
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1692:born in Ireland to Irish parents
3161:The discussion above is closed.
3121:You can call me bob jonny boy.
2320:SIGNED, THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND. --
2274:was a Knight Grand Cross of the
1938:Ha, ha, ha! Good post ... from
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2057:OH MY GOD... is Michael Gambon
1745:) 21:13, 13 November 2012 (UTC
1261:An image used in this article,
986:An image used in this article,
866:No responses - comment removed.
249:No source provided for new info
2316:It may stop all the bickering.
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1355:Has he read the books or not?
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258:Linking items already linked.
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105:Michael Gambonâs Early Years
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2975:reliable third-party sources
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1650:13 November 2012 Nationality
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490:right. (laughter).' Source:
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2098:(born 3 August 1938) is an
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2459:they might be nice to me."
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2132:Maybe he's trolling us. --
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1594:23:27, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
1573:Michael Gambon, incomplete
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1394:23:32, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
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1349:03:34, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
1302:Commons Undeletion Request
1269:for the following reason:
1028:18:38, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
994:for the following reason:
513:discuss before changing.--
366:17:21, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
121:21:37, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
101:Mickey Gambon, Early Years
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3014:Allthestrongbowintheworld
2828:I feel no need to add to
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2694:Allthestrongbowintheworld
2655:Allthestrongbowintheworld
2618:Allthestrongbowintheworld
2577:Allthestrongbowintheworld
2540:Allthestrongbowintheworld
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2330:15:51, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
2088:Sir Michael Terence Wogan
2031:04:22, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
1785:Allthestrongbowintheworld
1755:Allthestrongbowintheworld
1724:Allthestrongbowintheworld
1675:Allthestrongbowintheworld
1539:Allthestrongbowintheworld
902:18:11, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
406:07:22, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
335:13:17, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
134:- The last corner on the
3163:Please do not modify it.
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2526:Do you still feel Irish?
2362:Please do not modify it.
2013:03:21, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
1888:be the solution to this
1329:Irish born British actor
158:20:45, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
2534:No, been here too long.
1263:File:Gambon in 2009.jpg
711:Nationality (yet again)
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85:Have I Got News For You
1312:CommonsNotificationBot
1020:CommonsNotificationBot
996:Other speedy deletions
3039:Gareth Griffith-Jones
2895:Changing the question
2837:Gareth Griffith-Jones
2212:Gareth Griffith-Jones
2153:Gareth Griffith-Jones
2116:Gareth Griffith-Jones
2066:of Irish at best. --
1946:Gareth Griffith-Jones
1901:Gareth Griffith-Jones
1844:Gareth Griffith-Jones
1801:Gareth Griffith-Jones
1631:Gareth Griffith-Jones
1499:Gareth Griffith-Jones
948:Ferguson and Connery
224:User 77.209...s edits
42:of past discussions.
2858:This is not a vote.
1671:see the source given
1271:Copyright violations
988:File:Gambon 2011.jpg
717:this page on the bbc
482:RE: Michael Gambon:
2270:There you are, and
802:"British-Irish". â
566:Nationality (again)
18:Talk:Michael Gambon
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1275:What should I do?
1267:Wikimedia Commons
1047:comment added by
1034:
1033:
1000:What should I do?
992:Wikimedia Commons
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189:comment added by
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48:current talk page
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3278:it is closed now
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2789:pathetic of you.
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2177:Balthazar Bourke
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1186:Mr. Stradivarius
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621:dual nationality
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484:Well, I am Irish
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1886:IP:82.31.138.48
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2383:
2368:
2359:
2319:
2206:
2112:
2087:
2086:
2063:
2058:
2044:81.109.72.78
2038:â Preceding
2023:92.4.177.142
1978:â Preceding
1974:
1957:
1912:
1896:
1883:
1855:
1838:
1831:
1750:
1697:â Preceding
1691:
1653:
1605:
1601:
1576:
1520:
1468:81.109.72.78
1462:â Preceding
1458:
1430:â Preceding
1426:
1423:
1420:
1417:
1414:
1411:
1408:
1405:
1402:
1384:
1380:
1358:
1335:â Preceding
1332:
1307:
1306:
1279:
1278:
1270:
1222:
1183:
1179:
1162:
1145:
1129:79.97.144.17
1096:79.97.144.17
1082:
1080:
1069:79.97.144.17
1066:
1043:â Preceding
1040:
1015:
1014:
995:
953:
949:
929:
911:
891:
850:
848:
726:
714:
690:
684:
639:
633:
604:, maybe???--
584:
578:
569:
510:
488:
483:
462:
436:
412:
397:
393:
358:
354:
324:
316:
287:
279:
227:
219:
182:
167:
140:â Preceding
133:
124:
116:
111:
107:
104:
78:
60:
43:
37:
2414:Also, read
2150:Ha,ha! --
1951:â The Welsh
1906:â The Welsh
1849:â The Welsh
1580:âPreceding
1517:Citizenship
1368:67.87.69.48
1362:âPreceding
1280:Don't panic
1063:Nationality
1037:filmography
465:Tom Driberg
439:âPreceding
378:Billtheking
327:Stan Laurel
321:Nationality
185:âPreceding
179:Filmography
171:AusTerrapin
36:This is an
2348:SlimVirgin
2246:Jack of Oz
1602:incomplete
1524:Eckerslike
93:Thoughtcat
89:Tom Cruise
3264:ĂCorcrĂĄin
3217:ĂCorcrĂĄin
3058:ĂCorcrĂĄin
3028:ĂCorcrĂĄin
2917:ĂCorcrĂĄin
2878:Wikiquote
2830:User:Dmcq
2791:ĂCorcrĂĄin
2713:ĂCorcrĂĄin
2679:ĂCorcrĂĄin
2640:ĂCorcrĂĄin
2600:ĂCorcrĂĄin
2555:ĂCorcrĂĄin
2498:ĂCorcrĂĄin
2496:nonsense.
2397:ĂCorcrĂĄin
2344:WP:AN/RFC
2036:myself.
2005:Murry1975
1839:et cetera
1624:Koro Neil
1610:Koro Neil
1606:rellernar
1202:Spaniard.
1150:Noleander
904:Lestrade
849:Is there
305:MarnetteD
268:MarnetteD
67:Archive 2
61:Archive 1
3310:Scolaire
3282:Scolaire
3235:Scolaire
3201:Scolaire
3125:unsigned
2979:Scolaire
2899:Scolaire
2882:Scolaire
2692:Irish.--
2585:contribs
2573:unsigned
2040:unsigned
1992:contribs
1980:unsigned
1711:contribs
1699:unsigned
1582:unsigned
1464:unsigned
1444:contribs
1432:unsigned
1418:ENGLISH
1364:unsigned
1337:unsigned
1288:non-free
1204:Sheodred
1167:FormerIP
1083:happened
1045:unsigned
954:de facto
952:British
915:Sheodred
894:Lestrade
821:there.
606:Filastin
552:Filastin
515:Filastin
441:unsigned
433:Marriage
187:unsigned
154:contribs
142:unsigned
2992:Neutral
2971:Comment
2954:Support
2181:΀αÏÎżÏ
λα
2134:΀αÏÎżÏ
λα
2108:British
2068:΀αÏÎżÏ
λα
1984:VinDibs
1956:Buzzard
1911:Buzzard
1854:Buzzard
1818:Carbhat
1770:Carbhat
1739:Carbhat
1703:Carbhat
1656:Carbhat
1557:΀αÏÎżÏ
λα
1484:΀αÏÎżÏ
λα
1436:VinDibs
1386:VinDibs
1223:Neither
1180:Neither
1163:Neither
958:ukexpat
628:British
602:British
573:Ireland
414:Cameron
359:British
284:Maigret
136:Topgear
130:Topgear
91:'s". --
39:archive
3109:Jon C.
3076:Jon C.
2874:Oppose
2826:Oppose
2808:Oppose
2428:Jon C.
2416:WP:BRD
2411:issue?
2059:really
1227:pointy
884:result
868:Peeper
856:Peeper
511:Please
207:rkmlai
205:Done.
81:lathes
75:Lathes
3177:WP:AN
2880:? --
2457:Irish
2420:don't
2104:Irish
2100:Irish
2003:Yes.
934:PhilG
913:this.
624:Irish
598:Irish
290:Jr888
16:<
3328:talk
3324:Dmcq
3314:talk
3300:talk
3296:Dmcq
3286:talk
3268:talk
3254:talk
3250:Dmcq
3239:talk
3221:talk
3205:talk
3185:talk
3181:Dmcq
3133:talk
3095:talk
3062:talk
3032:talk
3018:talk
3000:talk
2983:talk
2962:talk
2941:talk
2937:Dmcq
2921:talk
2903:talk
2886:talk
2817:talk
2813:Dmcq
2795:talk
2777:talk
2717:talk
2698:talk
2683:talk
2659:talk
2644:talk
2622:talk
2604:talk
2581:talk
2559:talk
2544:talk
2502:talk
2441:out.
2401:talk
2395:out.
2326:talk
2288:talk
2185:talk
2138:talk
2106:and
2072:talk
2064:hint
2048:talk
2027:talk
2009:talk
1988:talk
1930:talk
1834:use
1822:talk
1789:talk
1774:talk
1759:talk
1743:talk
1728:talk
1707:talk
1679:talk
1660:talk
1614:talk
1590:talk
1561:talk
1543:talk
1528:talk
1488:talk
1472:talk
1440:talk
1421:and
1390:talk
1372:talk
1345:talk
1316:talk
1236:talk
1232:Span
1208:talk
1171:talk
1154:talk
1133:talk
1118:talk
1114:Span
1100:talk
1073:talk
1053:talk
1024:talk
962:talk
938:talk
930:made
919:talk
898:talk
827:talk
781:talk
744:talk
692:talk
672:talk
657:talk
641:talk
610:talk
586:talk
556:talk
538:talk
519:talk
499:talk
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449:talk
309:Talk
294:talk
272:Talk
235:talk
211:talk
195:talk
150:talk
2282:...
2113:--
2092:KBE
1751:and
950:are
851:any
630:"?
342:JAJ
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50:.
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