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1044:? All of these countries regardless of their differences adopted the term "militia" for their police forces following the same Bolshevik Leninist example: The usage of the term "militia" for "police", despite its original military conotation, originates from early Soviet history, when the Bolsheviks intended to associate their new law enforcement authority with the self-organization of the people and to distinguish it from the "bourgeois class protecting" police. A decision should be made: either the article will deal with the Russian police only OR it will deal with all the (former) communist police forces named
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1078:. I don't disagree that the article should be moved, but I do not believe "militia (police)" is an acceptable alternative title. None of the English-language dictionaries I consulted defined the word "militia" as "police". Using it as such may be acceptable in an informal communications, but not in an encyclopedia. If we are to move this article, we need to find an acceptable title (and it does not have to be just one word; something along the lines of "law enforcement agencies in Slavic countries" might work well).—
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concern is that most of the information in that section is 10 years out of date - I'm sure that there has been recent progress in this area, now that Russia is full of oil money and Putin seems set on restoring order. In fact, I remember hearing something about the government cracking down on private security forces to prevent there being many different systems at once. Not quite sure of the details, though. Maybe there's some more info in the
Russian wiki article that could be translated...
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1226:(chasing of criminals, regulation of traffic and all that). Its the same thing. Normally, there were some differences due to different political systems and the communist ideology (persecution of dissidents and all that). Despite that there's no difference. Thats why I suggested "Militia (Police)". The title suggests that the word "Militia" could be also used for Police forces.
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719:, which prescribes using current title. I would, however, support the move to an appropriate English title, if, indeed, there is one. How is Russian militsiya normally referred to in English-language texts? "Russian police", for example, gets eight time more google hits than either "militsiya" or "militsia", not to mention the fact that we already have
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into a single section, outlining the differences that really exist and matter between the post-Soviet/Russian militsyas and other
Eastern European countries. If there are no objections, I will remove the language box entirely (preserving the Russian in the lead) and try to combine the sections at the bottom to form a single paragraph.--
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same. I'm not against criticism as it is, but I am against it being on
Knowledge (XXG) and giving people the wrong impression. Unless someone writes a normal neutral article which simply describes the Russian police and its system, I will continue to delete the section. Please hate Russia all you want but not on Knowledge (XXG).
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some explanation on how listing them in each and every language is pertinent to the article itself. For that matter, I'm amenable to retaining the spelling for countries such as the former
Yugoslavia and converting the entire box into a paragraph; something similar to what is now found in the lead, "...the term
791:
That "traditional usage" may be quite OK in a movie, in a newspaper article, or among tourists visiting Rusisa, as it refers mostly to the cops patrolling the streets (i.e., the part of militsiya people see the most). However, once you remember that "militsiya" is in fact a branch of executive power
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I think that's an acceptable compromise. The presence of the box (or, rather, of the infomation the box contains) is the matter of the article's scope. It only seems redundant because the sections pertaining to the other countries are either underdeveloped or missing altogether. Once that problem
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This aside, there also seems to be an unnecessary proliferation of sections at the end of the article beginning with "Militsya in..." without actually giving any additional information other than directing a reader to another article. It seems that here too all the information should just be cobbled
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Well, I'd say that the length of the page alone warrants a standalone article. And no, it's not "just police". "Just police" would be municipal militsiya, plans for establishing which in Russia have now been on the drawing board for years, but which has not yet been implemented in practice (apart,
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This is a quite high number of tortures for confessions. And a very serious accusation. Therefore it cannot be unexplained in a single sentense. Please provide how the author of the quoted book came to this conclusion, what time period is addressed. I don't believe that such numbers are possible to
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Alright, I've gone ahead with the move and have numerous minor corrections as well. I hope there are no serious objections to them. Sadly, the sources I have on hand with me on Russia do not adequately address the information found on this page and thus much of it remains uncited. Hopefully that'll
1285:
I maintain that "Eastern Europe" is the most accurate and value-neutral term. SFRY geopolitically did belong to
Eastern Europe, despite being a non-aligned country. Besides, apart from mentions in the lead, SFRY milicija it's not even discussed in the article. GDR and Hungary are exceptions — we're
1586:
Having the box moved down to a section below is a good start but I still find it rather out of place that all these languages are included. The USSR exported its system of government and administration to all the countries under its orbit in
Eastern Europe after World War II, but there needs to be
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Please explain in details. The larger portion of text reflects issues common for all 4 countries, and not only for them. It doesn't need moving anywhere. As for lowest country sections, I was indeed thinking of selective moving them into respective main articles, keeping only in "See also". If you
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in different languages is encyclopedic information, and, as such, belongs in the article. Whether a language box is the best way to present that information is probably debatable, but removing this altogether will not improve the article in any way and will actually make it slightly worse. How
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I've removed the part about post-Soviet
Russian "police" because it is, as all other articles about Russia, totally biased stating only bad points. I have never seen any criticisms like that on any other countries' pages. In the US police article every word gloryfies them, everything else is the
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This request has been at the bottom of the backlog for some time, and I'm not reading a clear consensus out of the above discussion. There seems to be little support for the proposed move target, but it's not clear what should really be done with the article, which we're saying has some issues
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I'd like the give my own views on this. To Lars: try not to delete things if they are relevant and factually accurate, as the
Russian militsiya section currently is. I have many friends in Russia, and distrust of the militsiya is deeply ingrained and to a large extent earned. A more pressing
1546:
Is it really necessary to list all the ways the word "militia" is spelled in the
Eastern European languages? I can understand why the Russian is there (the USSR established the system after all) but it's obvious that, no matter the variation, they all have virtually the same pronunciation and
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People, I've cleaned up and widened the article according to the sad and complicated reality : )). Looks like some of the authors were deeply mistaken about the structure of
Russian police. Hence, there can be a major confusing on the other Russsia-related law enforcement pages such as
676:: if you don't cease that, I'll start developing artilces on modern Putinland (with all my vast knowledge and references). It's not of my priority, but you'll get if propagocensoship won't stop. (This, of course, doesn't refer to any of the editors in this talk section).
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in their respective official languages. Currently it is not clear what perspective the article deals with: Only the ex-Soviet one? and/or the modern Russian or Ukrainian or Belarusian one? Or it includes the Eastern Bloc countries such as Poland which had the
946:
I am not saying that russian police are all good guys. I am saying that such accusation must have a more solid grounds than a single sentence quoting a single book. If it is a real, problem it must be addressed by a serious text, possibly a separate article.
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regarding its scope? I'm going to close this as a "no consensus" and remove the RM listing, and if the editors here decide to move the article after all, to whatever title, then please let me or another administrator know, or file another request at
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Splendid. I'll wait another day or two before making any major edit, in case someone else has an objection or a better solution to offer. I have some official Soviet sources with me as well, so we can at least start referencing this article more
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know. Aslo, such serious statenent cannot be based on an opinion of a single author. We are writing encyclopedia ere, not a horror movie or detective story. At best the sentence is question must be restated as an opinion of the books's author.
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Traditionally the Russian police have been termed militia in the English speaking world ( e.g. see the film 'Gorki park' ). This may be completely wrong translation but it is common usgae and I believe that Wiki follows common usage.
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I mean, all, abslolutely all articles about something Russian only have anti- points in them saying how bad everything and everyone is. As I said, I don't care if everyone has their heads in their bottoms but NOT on Knowledge (XXG).
557:. I also deleted a totally-mistaken navbox. So somebody please update respective pages for Russia - this is not my primary goal. In case if somebody questions my knowledge - see my user page. And I watch Russian TV every day.
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OK, guys, I wasn't the one who wrote RF section (unlie others in this article). But if you want "updates" on how Putin "restores the order" in militsiya, find out what happened in 2004 in the city of Blagoveshensk
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Meanings of the English word "militia" do not include "official police force of a country". Your further etimological analysis with consequent mapping of "militia" to "militsia" constitutes nothing more than
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968:. All are encouraged to (a) participate in the discussion there, (b) improve the article so the value of the image to it is clearer, and/or (c) search for or create a free image of comparable quality.—
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meaning. If we're to keep the box, then we might as well add the alphabets of other former Soviet-republics but adding any more just seems to make a superfluous situation even more superfluous.
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1486:"Militia" means a completely different thing in English. I believe that name was proposed in the past and got shot down. By the way, another possible candidate to merge this article into is
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1925:, and as such should probably be spelled either uchastkoviy or uchastkovyy. Anyone know better, before I fix it? I'd use the ...viy suffix, but I notice google transliterates with ...vyy.
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1180:. That's what one usually gets with a badly scoped article. First, the article contains several assertions that "it's not the same as Police in west", but IMO fails to explain how it is
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is closer to the pronounciation and transliteration rules agree that the "-ия" ending traditionally transliterated as "-ia" (Bashkiria, Evenkia, Turkmenia, Ossetia, Yulia etc).--
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well, but the content should be merged. I don´t see the reason for this article to exist. "Militsiya" is just police, but with another name in russian. It´s nothing special.--
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On to the Dzole's comments: I think that the article's best direction would be to focus to the Soviet Union police and its successors. Thus, something along the lines of
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agree with my vision, I'll start doing it and will receive your help & opinions with thanks. Otherwise I'm gonna delete splitting template. Thank you,
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That said, I wholeheartedly agree that the current title ("militsiya") sucks rocks. However, the only appropriate place for a merger seems to be
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about moving the box further down (there really is no need to display it so prominently), or textifying it altogether in a separate section?—
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1727:: The Duma passed the new law, although the official name change is on March 1. Perhaps the article needs to be rewritten appropriately.
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is very biassed and one-sided section. The only thing one can learn of it is 'how bad is Russian police'. I think it needs correction.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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is not acceptable since the term "Militia" was also used in Romania and probably in some other non-Slavic countries too.
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Folks, this really needs to be a disambig page from which Russian, Belarusian, Ukrainian and Polish pages are branched.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Despite the differences between the Western police and the Eastern "militias" (not the military militias), both were
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different. I suppose police organization, scope and name are at least slightly different from one country to another.
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because initially it was really workers' and peasants' militia and is in turn the transliteration of the Latin word
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People, I'd like to stress the abuse of the OSNAZ and SPETSNAZ terms. May be all of them should replaced with the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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I would prefer hearing an opinion of a native speaker regarding this. An opinion by a linguist would be ideal.—
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The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:
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I'm afraid it's not about bias or Knowledge (XXG), it's ONLY about Russia's real image in the world :)).
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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1753:(the police by then) in Russia. Simply renaming this article would create more problems than it solves.—
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does state Eastern European usage in the lead — I'm not sure if it's an original research, but the term
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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which is responsible for a lot more than maintaining order in the streets and fighting crime, the term
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user Ezhiki written that the militsiya isn't english word - it's true BUT he's also written that it's
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Nope (see the "name and status" section for why). It could use a rename, however. "Militsiya" is
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and found the name Militsioner redirtect to this article, how should we add note to this article?
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553:. Guys, cut that crap about Spetsnaz and OSNAZ - OMON is neither that, nor the department of MVD.
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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as more specific and unambiguous? Anyway, MVD units you may think about fall firmly into either
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Good content, however more pictures and a list of references are needed for B class or higher--
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has its own article with a detailed overview of the history of police in Russia. The article
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The article indeed needs to be re-written. It should deal with the historical background of
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There will be restructurization in Russian Fed. and by 2011 militsiya will be renamed.
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I'm not competent enough in subject to make this section more reliable. Just going by.
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion
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then, if we have not problems. If not, then I´ll try to find another name for this.--
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is also not acceptable, the UN counts the former Yugolsav countries as belonging to
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aiming for an accurate and NPOV title, not for a "yadda yadda" overly precise one.
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OK, I'm removing template, but leaving open the discussion of splitting in my way.
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pointing to this thread. Hopefully someone else might come up with suggestions.—
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my serious fair threat to those Russians that vandalize Ukraine-related articles
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1253:(People's Police), so not all eastern bloc police forces were called "militia".
1815:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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1447:, but, again, the article is too long to do a clean merger. Any other ideas?—
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was used in Eastern Bloc and the Warsaw Pact countries, including Poland (
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1308:. In any event, please let me know if I can be of any further assistance. -
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should work. Country specifics could go to country-specific articles, like
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is solved, the box/list of spellings will no longer look so out of place.—
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First of all we should change the name, for obvious reasons. I recommend
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used several times. Presumably this is an attempt at transliteration of
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal.
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Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the
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P.S. Let's find appropriate place for this piece later. What about
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.
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Please be aware that the image of the Russian militsya on parade,
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https://web.archive.org/web/20080221164858/http://eng.mvdrf.ru/
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I think that the article should be moved to a more generalized
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suddenly starts looking quite amateurish and plain incorrect.—
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http://rt.com/politics/russian/police-law-discussion-results/
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would be also unacceptable. Politicaly, SFR Yugoslavia was a
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in other countries (such as Belarus and Ukraine), and about
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1150:-- it just sounds so ambiguous. How ambiguous is this term
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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It is nothing else that a Soviet analogue of American SWAT
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country. Another note: the police forces in the former
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Third Section of His Imperial Majesty's Own Chancellery
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or something like that? I probably oppose the move to
887:(Okhrana or Okhranka) (Security Section) (1866-1917)
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1898:so I think its name in english wikipedia should be
1819:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
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if I'm not mistaken, from a couple pilot projects).
1138:other than the name, how are these different than
865:Guys, I moved here the following irrelevant text:
560:P.S. All the Ukrainian militsiya stuff will be at
511:This article has not yet received a rating on the
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2064:Start-Class Russia (politics and law) articles
1986:Participate in the deletion discussion at the
1805:This message was posted before February 2018.
1677:change once I get my hand on other material.--
1755:Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky)
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723:. Should this be moved to
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1523:I've posted a comment at
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1505:It should be merged into
1488:Law enforcement in Russia
1000:, per discussion below. -
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933:06:44, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
926:Law enforcement in Russia
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