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impossible to link to both the 1962 and 1963 contents using one link. They are, after all, two individual contests. You never explained which part of the article mentions "let all entries shine". Saying it needs to be changed without informing of its whereabouts is not helpful. We are not mind-readers. Also, how have we "claimed" they went on tour, when there is a citation that verifies they went on tour and provides the dates and locations? What more can we follow up with after that? There are no sources that mention what happened during the tour, and we can't just "fabricate" content, as that goes against
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think about whether or not it really makes sense. In my opinion, almost all other articles that I've seen as GAs and FAs that have links in their title reiteration are not bolded, so I'm beginning to question whether or not it'd be better to be consistent across articles of the same type or articles across all of
Knowledge. My final verdict is indifferent, with a slight leaning towards going ahead and bolding it since it looks silly to not bold it just because of a little link. I'll leave that to the discretion of the nominator.
440:, I appreciate that you tend to work more on featured articles and lists, so therefore aim for higher standards. However, this is not a FA review, the the standards for a GA do not have to be as high as those for FA. Anyhow, I have addressed the points above, and just need to clean-up the en-dash issues in the refs (and I found more than the ones you noted) and also I need to italicised the works in the refs too.
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particular choice in clothing have on the outcome of the competition or the reception of the performance? Things like that. As a reader, I would like to have those things explained to me, not just told to me. If such information is as important as you say, then these details shouldn't be difficult to add. But if it is truly inconsequential, then I'm back to thinking we shouldn't bog down the article with it.
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I suppose it's quite a subjective thing to convey really. I'm not sure I really could elaborate on it without becoming too personal about it all. As you're the outside party in this, and since we're trying to keep the article as neutral as possible, perhaps removing these details wouldn't be too much
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I see. Do you think it'd be a good idea to kind of elaborate on that sentence, then? Maybe add more context or information explaining why such details are important to have in the article? Because as a casual reader that sentence on its own struck me as an inconsequential detail. What effect did that
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I've gone through your list and made the necessary corrections for most of the points. I think the paragraph around the performance in the semi-final is quite important, because how the acts stage their performances is an important part of the contest, and I think it's necessary to convey this to the
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As for this bolding thing, it is clear that it is your personal annoyance. One needs to remember that the review needs to be neutral and following the GAN criteria. It must not be based on personal preference and styles. There are a plethora of manual of style guides that all encourage the bolding in
643:
Well I'm not buying into the way you are reviewing this, in all honesty. You have said you normally do FA's, and you are treating this GA review as if it were for a FA. The criteria is by far different. The other points you listed are also over-the-top for the circumstance of a GA. For example; It is
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Other than that, looks good! :) I'll just touch on the intro bolding issue. On one hand, I'd say that it's probably better to be consistent with the other
Netherlands in the Eurovision Song Contest articles, especially since policies and guidelines always have exceptions. But then that leaves us to
749:. The title of n article has to be given bold text within the first line of the opening text. Now this article is about Netherlands in the Eurovision Song Contest 2014. To use that entire wording in a sentence would not work as it makes no grammatical sense. However, the way it has been done "The
671:
Ok, well I'm disappointed that you feel that way. I plucked this from the queue, it's been hanging around for months, and I had hoped that my review comments would be accepted with a little more grace. If you prefer me to fail this nomination so you can renominate, that's fine. I have made well
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it is I who is disappointed that you are conducting a FA-style review on a GA nominated article. That is not what you're suppose to be doing per the reviewing instructions. I have seen more than 200 reviews been conducted, and this is the first time I have ever seen one being done using the FA
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Fine, you are entitled to do just as you like. I am not using FA criteria by any means as this article falls way short of that standard. You are probably unaware how many have GANs I have eventually failed as a result of these reviewers, most nominators get on board and are happy to improve
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Just a quick response, I review in isolation, in other words it's not really important to me what other reviewers have said in other reviews. I'm more used to working on featured articles and lists, and therefore may tend to have marginally higher standards than those of oher GAN reviewers.
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I have gone through all of the references and italicised works noted. In carrying out this operation, I had stumbled across a plethora of citations that had parameters missing, so I've fixed those and again italicised the works. The 'see also' section has been changed so that it links to the
335:
I've only looked at a few of the points for now and would like to comment on those, if I may. The bold text for country and the contest they took part in has been a method used for years now. And something which was never raised an issue with during the recent GA review of
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While I don't particularly have a problem with this sentence in general, the amount of detail is a bit needless. Maybe just get rid of the "with trees and birds" part, I think that'll do. Birds and trees are kind of inherent with forestry, especially the latter.
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Knowledge. As I said, this only the second time someone has complained, and the first time round the nominator later apologised. If you're concerned that I'm helping make the quality of the articles too high, I am surprised, to say the least. Thanks.
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Why would we link to "boat races" for 1962 and 1963? This is the
Eurovision SONG Contest, not the Eurovision Boat Race. We cannot call these events a "race" as they are "competing" in a "song contest". Athletes' race, not musicians, so these events are
757:" is covering both the Netherlands and the Eurovision 2014 aspects of the article title, all being bold, and all within the first opening line. However, I have delinked for now, to see if that is in accordance with your "personal choice of style".
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Some concern over the singular/plural reference to the
Netherlands, e.g. you have "the Netherlands had participated in the Eurovision Song Contest fifty-four times since their début" i.e. plural yet "The Netherlands was set" i.e. singular. Be
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now you've confused matters even further. At first the text within the article about 1962/1963 was linked as "the and s". You then said to change it, which we did. Now you want us to change it back? Make your mind up. As for the
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of a problem. Making the article as clear for a casual reader is of course the aim. I have removed the references to clothing, but if you think I should alter the other references in that paragraph as well then let me know.
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but; and have tried to keep consistency throughout. I suppose changing the ones without an accent into the consistent version would be the right thing to do here. I'll address the other points when I have read through them.
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LED screens simulated road markings on the floor of the stage, while further screens on the background showed a rainy forest scene with trees and birds, transforming into a dry forest scene towards the end of the
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You should also assume that not everyone is familiar with conducting a "simple control-F (or cmd-F)", in order to find text. Being more elaborate and helpful is what is expected of a reviewer when carrying out
340:(now GA article). Also linking to "common geographical terms, such as Denmark", was never found fault with in that aforementioned GA. WikiProject Eurovision went in favour of using the accent spelling of d
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Netherlands Junior
Eurovision participation of the same year. I have also de-linked any overlinking of words/phrases. Plus I've changed how some links have been written for contests, so that they use the
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I wasn't asking you to fabricate anything, nor introduce original research. I simply asked what happened to the tour. It now appears that further text has been added to cater for my enquiry, which is
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for further eyes to be cast on this, as you are clearly conducting a FA review on a GA nominee. And it casts doubts on how many other GA's have you carried out this procedure with in gthe past.
881:. Would be more helpful if it were noted in there, not just for myself, but other editors who may not be aware of the issue. Anyhow, I am guessing the rest is now of high enough standard?
648:. In light of the conduct this review is being made, and the fact you have said you tend to do FA's rather than GA's; I would like to request a second reviewer to have a look at this.
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I'm pretty sure "was" is more appropriate instead of "had been". "Had been" implies something that was and still is, whereas "was" implies something that used to be but is no longer.
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I'd be happy to review this. The article looks quite good, except for a few minor things that I would do myself except that I think it'd be better if the nominator had a say, too.
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Let me know how you wish to proceed, we have only a couple of minor outstanding issues, and from my point of view, it would be a shame to see the nomination fail because of them.
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217:"The Netherlands has used various methods to select the Dutch entry" would be better as something like "Various methods have been used to select the Dutch entry..."
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214:"The Dutch broadcaster for the 2014 Contest, who broadcasts the event in the Netherlands " somewhat tautalogical here, needs rewording to remove the redundancy.
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Missed this too, you say "In July 2014..." for the post-Eurovision section, claiming they'd be going on a tour. Well it's July 2015 now, so what's the update?
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I'm really not buying this artificial version of bolding in the lead, especially when part of it is linked. What I would say is that higher quality articles
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do this, but I can't complain vs the GA criteria. It's just worth noting that you're perpetuating an erroneous approach to the lead of articles in this way.
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Per my hyphen/en-dash comment above, reference titles also should be checked for this, e.g. ref 7, ref 60 needs a spaced en-dash, not a spaced hyphen.
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Not too bothered, but debut has been anglicised enough these days to not need an accent. Particularly as you use both variants in the same article.
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Probably worth noting that the
Netherlands were required to qualify before saying they were likely to qualify. Not all countries need to qualify...
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Don't worry, I'm withdrawing from this review. I am sorry that I wasted your time. I'm sure you'll easily find someone else to quickly pass it.
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A simple control-F (or cmd-F) would help you find the text that I have said is not encyclopedic. It appears to have been removed, so that's good.
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for seven days to see if we can address some of the nit-picky concerns I've raise above which would just polish the article off. Good work.
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criteria. And no, you would not need to fail so that it can be renominated. You clearly are not familiar with GA reviewing, as a user can
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over 100 GA reviews in the last year or so, this is only the second time I can recall that I have had complaints for a review being
200:" in 1957 " avoid these easter egg links. I had problems with my boat race articles with this, but ended up saying things like "in
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DeLange performed the song in a white dress, while Waylon was dressed in black leather trousers, a black jacket and a cowboy hat.
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detailed. In the meantime, let me just expand on the second set of comments to remove the confusion that appears to have arisen.
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I know MOS adherence is not obligatory, but "The Common
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where "If, as is typical, the lead contains a boldface reiteration of the title, the reiteration should not contain links".
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I'm never sure but I don't think the use of flag icons is appropriate as they are being used purely decoratively here.
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I didn't suggest you link the two contests to one article. I said you should use something along the lines of "the
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sure this sentence is really necessary, nor the following sentence about the backgrounds, though I could be wrong.
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The list of jury members starts as prose but then becomes factoid, bullet points, revise so it reads as prose.
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257:" Ilse DeLange, JB Meijers, Rob..." again, don't repeat first names unless there's some possible ambiguity.
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I have gone through your points and made several necessary changes to wording, referencing and format.
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and had finished in second place at the end of the voting behind the winning entry from
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and at the end of the voting had finished in second place behind the winning entry from
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Be consistent, you now link "the" in "at the 1993 contest"... fix this linking unilaterally.
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Avoid single-sentence paragraphs (e.g. the first "para" of the "After
Eurovision" section).
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Not at all, thank you for helping get the article to closer compliance with the MOS.
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if you are not buying the "bolding" in the lead, then perhaps you need to challenge
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featured in something is to be hosted by something. You see what I'm trying to say?
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and finally in the 1975 contest with "Ding-a-Dong" performed by the group Teach-In.
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Again "for the 2004 contest" vs "recently in the 2011 Contest" - caps or no caps?
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this sentence confused me for a second there, I would suggest rearranging it to
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Missed this first time round, but " let all entries shine." is not encyclopedic.
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Not sure in the purpose of abbreviating EBU when you never use the abbreviation.
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Lots of repeats of "method" towards the end of the paragraph, isn't great prose.
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I think that will be good. Although I do suggest maybe simplifying this part:
566:"the 1962 and 1963 contests." contests should be part of the wikilink (etc).
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featured in only two finals? To feature something is to host something, to
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That's not a problem. I've edited that paragragh again per your request.
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A small European promotional tour had been planned for The Common Linnets
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were independent broadcasters, until they merged in 2014 to become
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Both See also are already linked so don't need to be restated here.
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Certainly no need for the bold link to the 2014 competition either.
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I believe a hyphen needs to go between "specially" and "designed".
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Table captions, "Points Awarded" no need to capitalise Awarded.
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thing, someone nerds to have that noted in the MOS guides of
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Great! For posterity I'll leave a proper GA checklist below.
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must not be failed, in order for a second review to commence
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The Netherlands least successful result has been last place
275:"a huge hit " not encyclopedic really, not neturally toned.
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I would avoid linking common terms like "music video" too.
251:"was used to effect" not sure what "to effect" adds here.
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Avoid linking common geographical terms, such as Denmark.
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No real necessity to artificially bold Netherlands here.
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The Netherlands' least successful has been last place
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Specifically bold links, which are not recommended.
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Talk:Netherlands in the Eurovision Song Contest 2014
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978:"The Netherlands" needs a possessive apostrophe (
293:Avoid SHOUTING in ref titles (e.g. ref 16, 17...)
962:the Netherlands had featured in only two finals.
794:It was an example. I think that was obvious.
232:"TROS announced" is that the same as AVROTROS?
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606:which encourages and recommends it be done.
382:. Hope that clears up the confusion there.
338:Austria in the Eurovision Song Contest 2014
314:This is in a really good state, I'll place
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818:Anyhow, I shall be leaving a note over at
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202:the 1997 race
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1172:Sims2aholic8
1124:Sims2aholic8
1080:Sims2aholic8
1038:
1015:
1000:§ Semi-final
969:
965:
950:§ Background
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297:De Telegraaf
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117:Article talk
116:
112:
93:
90:
81:Instructions
1243:word choice
987:§ Promotion
871:WP:LEADLINK
751:Netherlands
682:WP:LEADLINK
248:consistent.
104:visual edit
1276:verifiable
693:1963 races
554:Comments 2
48:Authorship
34:GA toolbox
1482:Pass/Fail
886:Wes Mouse
827:Wes Mouse
653:Wes Mouse
611:Wes Mouse
503:Wes Mouse
445:Wes Mouse
387:Wes Mouse
354:Wes Mouse
144:Reviewer:
71:Templates
62:Reviewing
27:GA Review
1016:entirely
1014:I'm not
785:contests
380:AVROTROS
306:. And
174:Comments
157:contribs
76:Criteria
1476:Overall
1357:focused
1247:fiction
1023:§ Final
483:Esccnty
471:Update:
316:on hold
127:history
108:history
94:Article
1501:Jacedc
1429:images
1404:stable
1402:It is
1380:policy
1332:It is
1269:It is
1249:, and
1239:layout
1210:It is
1195:review
1151:Jacedc
1136:Jacedc
1102:Jacedc
1087:Jacedc
1058:Jacedc
1042:Jacedc
937:Jacedc
879:WP:SBE
820:WT:GAN
747:WP:SBE
476:WP:ESC
302:As is
1455:with
1251:lists
1197:(see
1131:song.
813:GA's.
702:good.
646:WP:OR
561:don't
493:Escyr
308:Metro
136:Watch
16:<
1505:talk
1273:and
1235:lead
1233:for
1203:here
1199:here
1161:talk
1140:talk
1113:talk
1091:talk
1069:talk
1046:talk
966:been
964:Had
941:talk
915:talk
877:and
845:talk
800:talk
770:talk
745:and
712:talk
691:and
689:1962
680:See
628:talk
584:talk
536:talk
488:and
413:talk
376:TROS
374:and
372:AVRO
324:talk
208:..."
206:1997
151:talk
123:edit
100:edit
1231:MoS
674:too
1507:)
1484::
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1449:b
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1193:GA
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