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is a lot of history associated with the terms "Former
Prophets" and "Latter Prophets"; these are far from recent coinages, and they have plenty of history, both in Judaism and in Christianity, and both in Hebrew and English (and other languages?). So part of what is going on here is that there is a term with a lot of history—one whose specific meaning many people are quite familiar with—and people use the terms today. So even if the descriptor is not your favorite, it's one that works for people, because it's already pretty well known.
1243:(Later Prophets). And overall, the one set of books reports from an earlier point in history, while the other reports from a later point in history, even if the Book(s) of Kings tend(s) to overlap in chronology. So it's a reasonable set of terms to use. Whether it's "the best"? Who knows? Who cares? It's the established terminology, though. And within the Jewish world, we have no need to exclude "Prophets" from the title of the earlier one, because it's still part of the larger section of the canon that we call "Prophets".
1100:. There is a tradition that there were consistently prophets throughout the period. Not all have books named after them, or course, but all of these books contain some prophecy. Consider not only Joshua and Samuel, but also people like Deborah in the book of Judges, or Elijah and Elisha in the book(s) of Kings. (And this doesn't even consider people also said traditionally to have prophecy, like King David.) So in any event, these are books of the "age of prophets", all of which contain prophecy.
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there were consistently prophets in the land throughout the period. But the genre of the books themselves is, in essence, of journalism or reporting, not of what a modern reader would call "prophecy". Contrast the genre of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, the Twelve, etc., for which the claimed "prophets" description does fit. So:
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If you have a better transliteration, fix mine. The proper transliteration of shva is an upside-down e, but I can't type that. There is no perfect transliteration of Hebrew vowels into
English without using diacritics. The purpose, so far, is to list what books are in this section of the Bible and in
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could refer to "Prophets" or "Books within the section called 'Prophets'" equally easily. So perhaps you might more comfortably translate this as "Earlier books within the section called 'Prophets'" and "Later books within the section called 'Prophets'". But in practice, that's not the translation
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So once you say that, the question becomes "If these need to be divided for some purpose, how do we do it?" And the main breaking point chosen was between Kings and Isaiah. It may very well be that the division was drawn that way because the nature of the one set of books is and the other straight
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It seems as if the terminology "historical books" and "prophetic books" is used more in the articles on the
Christian Bible at this point. And in many ways, those are entirely appropriate descriptions—maybe more accurate than "Earlier Prophets" and "Later Prophets". But please understand that there
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absolutely does contain the books of Joshua, Judges, (1/2) Samuel, (1/2) Kings, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the Twelve. There is no ambiguity within
Judaism; these are called the books of Prophets (Nevi'im). In liturgical use (Haftarah), each is represented at least once at some point during the
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My basic query then becomes something like: While I readily accept the the label 'prophets' attached for the 'Latter
Prophets', it seems totally weird to have that word (as the modern reader understands it) attached to the 'Former Prophets'. I'm hoping to read something like, "The Former Prophets
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In modern-day terminology, the natural inclination is to think of the genre of the Joshua-Kings as some sort of journalism, news-reporting, documentary or similar. The words "prophet" and "prophecy" seem a most strange way to describe this documentary activity. Sure, there is the tradition that
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Many thanks for your reply. As you probably spotted I struggling even to frame the question! Your reply is helping. Let me focus on just the "Former
Prophets"; references outside that are secondary in this context, so let's also leave aside the complicating wrinkles of Chronicles, Daniel, etc.
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Why put Daniel in
Ketuvim, then? For starters, the earlier part of the book is more about the historical consequences of his prophecy than about the prophecy itself. (Example: "Mene, mene ...": the next day the ruler was overthrown.) Beyond that, while the eschatological bits of Daniel are surely
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In colloquial
English, prophecy is generally understood to have a significant aspect of foretelling. So the "Prophets" description of the "Latter" group (Isaiah, etc.) can easily be appreciated because of the foretelling or "future warning" aspect of the writing. But why are the "Former" group
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The list in the article includes Daniel at roman numeral IV. But he's also listed in the Ketuvi'im. I think the latter is correct. I didn't make the edit myself because I'm not sure about the fix, I just know that the wiki is contradicting itself about Daniel's place in the canon.
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What method of transliteration are you using for Hebrew. You seem to be showing all the alephs but not noting all the shva na's. BTW, the name is
Malakhi, with a patach under the mem. Finally, what exactly is the purpose of this piece, besides giving Hebrew names to biblical books?
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It seems to me that the revision "17:47, 1 June 2016 81.137.204.237 (talk) . . (20,711 bytes) (+2,430)" includes some helpful and informative additions about the nature of Nevi'im that could be added to this article. Unfortunately they were a bit untidy and have been reverted by
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status. To these may be added unique textual characteristics that come into play when editing the details of the masoretic text. For none of these purposes can the books be counted as 15-16, be re-ordered, be anything but the second tier, or include
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prophecy. (That seems likely to me; most of the "Latter
Prophets" were actually prophesying during the later years of the Book(s) of Kings, so the chronology actually overlaps.) But when a title was given to the sets as a whole, they were titled
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prophecy, the prophecy happened outside land of Israel, so was somewhat downgraded by the subsequent redactors. (Some of Ezekiel's prophecy was also exilic prophecy, but he had a career as a prophet in the land of Israel before that.)
993:
This article contains a lot of off-topic material concerning the concept of prophethood in Judaism. It needs to be rewritten to focus on the Nevi'im, the second section of the Tanakh. Most of the off topic material should be at
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article as it currently stands, which unfortunately contains a long (and unnecessary) summary of the biblical books. As such, I think this is an unfortunate example of how some Knowledge articles degenerate over time instead of
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year. (I don't think that each of "the Twelve" is, but they constitute a single book in our canon.) These books are collectively "The Prophets". There is no ambiguity about that at all. We wouldn't (even can't) change that.
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Why Chronicles in one place and Samuel/Kings in the other? That's a good question. I do not know the answer for sure, but it's fair to say that there is more prophecy in Samuel/Kings than in Chronicles. Given that the
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This is a bit weird isn't it. The same 16(15) books cannot share the same article simply because in one ordering they, minus Daniel, come in the second bit, in another ordering the third? (note also
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Former/Latter is mainly a chronological division, although to be sure the books of the "Former Prophets" also have much historical content, while the books of the "Latter Prophets" have much less.
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Why does "sons of the prophets" redirect here? They were a group of people exclusively referenced in the Elisha story of 2 Kings, and have nothing to do with this page's topic, as far as I know.
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Why does this article not have any Etymology? As it is the most-controversial section title of the Hebrew Bible, it should have the most-extensive etymology, showing where this word came from.
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If I wasn't entirely clear above, I do want to mention, briefly, that even if the books in this section are more than prophetic, the books do directly report and state prophecy. See,
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what order. Christian Bibles generally have them arranged differently, so Christians may not be familiar with the sections of the Hebrew Bible. If you have more to add, add it. -phma
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redirects to a disamb page which had no option to the common (in Google Books, check please) use of "The Prophets" to mean the prophets in the Hebrew Bible/Tanakh/Old Testament:
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From this entry i don't know what is that nevim anyway. I can guess of course, but encyclopedia entries should be made so guessing is not necessary, right?
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However, that was not the original intent of the article, nor does it even reflect the last part of the article as it currently stands. The point of
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for the "Latter Prophets", we modern readers can readily, even subconsciously, accept that "Prophets" label; the label is concordant with the genre.
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1017:(were there good reasons to revert them?). If there are no objections I'm planning to add them back in, but would like to get some feedback first.
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I've changed the secondary spelling given in the article to "nəḇî’îm" for the same reasons given for the similar change in the Ketuvim article (
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Hi, as someone who contributed to the early versions of this article years ago, I understand what you mean, especially when you look at this
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for the "Former Prophets", we modern readers, by contrast, scratch our heads and say "huh?" when we see that "Prophets" label; the label is
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55:. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see
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As a reader, I'm trying to grasp the reasoning that led to these books having been classified and labelled in this manner.
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1040:(Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings) labelled as "prophets"? There seems to be very little in the way of "prophecy" in them.
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485:-related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Have made a couple of changes to transliteration, and have added the Hebrew: נביאים. Can't find a solution to the
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I move that the article be redone to return the focus to the unique history and characteristics of the books of
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I just fixed this up to make it look better and clearer and easier to read. Hope people approve of the changes.
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And, as a related aspect, if these books are are labelled "prophets" why is the very similar Chronicles
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Also, please keep in mind that whatever you might prefer to call things, the section of Tanakh called
959:, unique history in the canonization process of the Hebrew textual tradition of the Bible, and unique
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In that sense, I think you are correct that there is no important difference between this article and
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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In Jewish tradition, the "age of prophecy" (or "age of prophets") runs up to about the time the
1081:. And perhaps this discussion will lead at some point to some edits. But here's a first shot:
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I suggest either fixing the article up without the material or else putting it back.
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Could the article clarify the reasons behind this "Prophets" description, please?
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Perhaps someone will give you a better answer than this one, or what is found at
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Hi. The text you removed on cantillation is, as you said, duplicated in
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than in Nevi'im - it is equally relevant to both from opposite angles.
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These two articles discuss the same subject. They should be merged.
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Nevi'im is divided into the Former Prophets and Latter Prophets.
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Maybe it will be easier for you to consider that the term
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Okay, I fixed up this article. The info about the rare
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I would suggest adding the following External link:
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365:Bible portal
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93:WikiProjects
44:
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772:Merge with
57:its history
41:23 May 2011
1359:Categories
1270:References
1202:inter alia
1166:discordant
1000:Editor2020
918:improving.
739:Bava Batra
117:Interfaith
1287:Acharonim
1256:StevenJ81
1248:"Nevi'im"
1214:Psalms 18
1148:StevenJ81
1132:StevenJ81
1090:Zechariah
947:apply to
848:Cevlakohn
1324:Misty MH
1283:Rishonim
1206:Judges 5
961:halakhic
957:Haftarah
870:Prophets
862:Prophets
724:Msvitale
702:haftarah
684:Haftarah
680:Haftarah
659:unsigned
650:schva na
627:Untitled
239:inactive
187:Religion
165:Religion
112:Religion
33:deletion
1228:Nevi'im
1210:2Sam 22
1111:Ketuvim
1098:Malachi
971:Nevi'im
964:Daniel.
949:Nevi'im
938:Nevi'im
934:Nevi'im
915:Nevi'im
878:Nevi'im
608:on the
519:on the
492:Judaism
483:Judaism
439:Judaism
414:on the
294:defunct
268:defunct
214:on the
83:C-class
53:Nevi'im
1115:per se
1094:Haggai
1019:Ulgarg
953:Targum
781:Neelix
741:14b).
735:Talmud
709:msh210
644:szopen
89:scale.
49:merged
774:Nebim
729:mark
634:Danny
387:Bible
378:Bible
334:Bible
51:into
45:merge
1347:talk
1328:talk
1306:talk
1285:and
1260:talk
1181:talk
1136:talk
1096:and
1061:talk
1023:talk
1004:talk
979:talk
975:Dovi
945:only
904:talk
894:and
852:talk
785:talk
698:trop
691:Dovi
667:talk
511:High
206:High
176:and
174:good
61:here
1048:not
898:.)
846:).
600:Mid
406:Top
178:1.0
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