645:, although I'm working my way through all tribal councils and band governments throughout BC to bluelink everything with at least stubs, and appropriately cat (as it "to cat") their various categories and interrelationships. I tried going back through the history to see when these went in, but it's back quite a ways before my last visit so I must not have noticed on the first time through; this is one of the more thorough First Nations pages for BC, by the way, and has taken advantage of Wiki's article-buildling depth to build profiles of Nisga'a people/personalities in ways not yet done for other BC First Nations; impressive, but needs work to bring it into line with Wiki standards, and I daresay a Featured Article status once all its subarticles are done and its content and those of related argticles (e.g.
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side with the natives, at least rhetorically; it was the governments and corporationswho didn't want their investment bases harmed that didn't want the politiciking, IMO, not the moneyed and often highly educated and small-l liberal in-migrants from the Auld Sod. Anyway, that's a long original research-y kind of thing to discuss, but the idea here is that the BC and BC First
Nations history Wikipages can do a lot in the way of providing basic materials, as well as contexts that are habitually left out of more controlled editorial environments (e.g. curriculum, government pronouncements etc.).
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upsetting the applecart they carefully concocted to please themselves...and no one else. That strange apostrophe appears to have been employed to bypass redirects = surreptitious. Also, in common
English these people go by "the Nisga'a" as is also the case with the Haida, Heiltsuk and others whose move to "FOO" you have opposed; "Nisga'a people" as your pal Uysvdi complained about
1234:). The crafters of the ethnicities and tribes naming convention (which your guideline violates) clearly respected our collective decisions/consensus from long ago re both standalone names without "people/tribe/nation/peoples" unless absolutely necessary and also re the use of endonyms where available; but when I brought it up in the RMs of last year you insulted and baited me and
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to look very muchy like the reinstated traditional governments; Nisga'a is the only one in BC that I'm aware of where the traditional government has superseded the colonialist one; those in the
Douglas Treaties are not the same FWIU. Anyway just notes, was poking around, found the territory maps while looking for something else on BC gov maps (all pay-for in some way now....).
680:; I've been intending on some kind of list or history on the early/ongoing efforts to address constitutional/treaty issues since colonial times, and so of course the Nisga'a efforts from c.1890 or so are front-and-centre; turns up in bios of Premiers, judges and such I've been reading up on; docs involved might be best put in WikiSource, although for now there's ones like
772:, which is to say they share a common set of phonemes despite vast lingstuic differences, it would have been nice if they'd have all settled on teh same orthographic system......but taht's too political to accomplish ((neighbouring tribes, even within the same language area, often choose different spelling systems just to not have the same as their neighbours....).
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Really? That's kind of unusual on the
Northwest coast where houses more often opened towards the water. East is a strange direction to favor in the mountainous topography of the region as well--the sun is as likely to be seen in the south as the east most mornings. I'd like to see a citation for this
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is needed as a government page; there may be a more complete title possible, I'll check around. This article covers a lot of nice ethno stuff but the infobox is government oriented and shoudl be on a government-type page, which can have more about the treaty proceedings since "way back then"...also
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may use teh apostrophe (as in the case of their name, though not sure that's a glottal stop). In "St'at'imcets" the /t'/ is a lateral fricative - /tl/ or /lh/ - usually rendered in previous spellings by "tl", as in the old spellings
Stlatliumh and Stl'atl'imx. The piont of the new orthography was
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etc; yet this is not FN governmetn according to the usual meaning of that,i.e. not an Indian Act government; I'm wondering how to describe "traditional government" as a title/cat as there's a big difference, even though the composition of band governments is (if things are ever settled) likely going
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I just noticed the list of Nisga'a organizations and governments in the body of the text is made out of external links; those belong only in the "External links" section and what should be in the main body is, if anything, plain text, but in the case of needed articles - as all of these are, or most
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and, in fact, had a lot of support in the non-native community (until after the Great War anyway, which changed the political context on the ground and also wiped out a lot of the prior settlers who had become pro-native during their tenure here (in-migrant Brits in the remittance man days tended to
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There was a discussion and a subsequent unanimous vote in favor of explicit disambiguation of people–language pairs. "Nisga'a" can refer to both the people and the language, which means it falls under "Where a common name exists in
English for both a people and their language, a title based on that
1194:
There was a discussion once on whether the ethnicity should have precedence for the name, and it was decided it shouldn't. That could be revisited. But it really should be one discussion on the principle, not thousands of separate discussions at every ethnicity in the world over whether it should
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added as you rewrote your guideline to promote/enact. It says quite the opposite; the CRITERIA page also says that prior consensus should be respected, and those who crafted it an attempt to contact them towards building a new consensus done; and calls for consistency within related topics which
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Knowledge has policy about this, and these articles should not be moved until that has changed. Discussing the policy is just where any sound arguments should currently be made. I will listen to your arguments with an open mind, but you should also be prepared to listen to counterarguments in the
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Nisga'a Lisims it is, so any government reference should refer to the Nisga'a Lisims
Government with the corresponding Nisga'a term: Wilp Si’ayuukhl Nisga’a (still figuring out unicode, but there is underline 'k' and 'g'. Historically obviously the tribal council. No more bands in the old 'Indian
547:
Just a note to mention the need to create a more fully-fleshed out Nisga'a cultural/historical article, and also for a separate article, even a stub-like one, for the Nisga'a government; this is to conform to emerging standards within the
Indigenous Peoples Wikiproject; the reason is that in many
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that guideline's talkpage and CRITERIA's comments about respecting existing, evident consensus (the "old consensus" re using "FOO" to save issues about people/nation/tribe and "FOO people") which was laid out long before Kwami concocted his own guideline; I continue to assert that "FOO" and "FOO
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And why shouldn't I given the closure on the basis of quantitative counts of the "votes" instead of qualitative examination of each item?? His decision had nothing to do with your precious "policy" (guideline) nor any of the ones I cited myself which clearly are in conflict with it. And I was
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of users, two - no three - have engaged in insults against me is beyond smug to the point of ridiculousness; an RfC may be required to change that guideline, as it's clear I'm shut out of any process involving that group of editors, who have been relentlessly contrarian and hostile to anything
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article. I'd like there to be an available Wiki representation/listing of all such documents in BC history; i.e. the assertions of sovereignty and self-rule which underpin the current claims debate/context, which most people don't know existed/went on. It was declarations like the Nisga'a and
1496:
I suggest you raise this matter with your NCL group and revise your guidelines accordingly; similar stats will no doubt by borne out with similar results across all the other RMs you have copypasted your NCL mantra to. Revise your guideline, it's flawed and has serious POV and bad-information
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but that's a crock. The way to "address this issue properly" is to examine all of these, but bulk of them needless directs from then-long-standing titles moved by yourself, one by one as I was instructed/advised re the bulk RMs; as case-by-case decisions are needed. You want a centralized
764:
to make St'at'imc spelling distinct from that of
English; but now they insist on using their spelling in English, instead of the anglicized form (Stlatliumh, which is now pronounced "incorrect" or "debased"). In Chinookan and in "official" modern Chinuk-Wawa, the /t'/ is a ejective -
611:
PS What I'd been looking for is the date of the Nisga'a
Declaration of the 1890s (1880s or so) and the subsequent political lobbying/organization of the Nisga'a chiefs, both within Nisga'a Lands and in concert with other First Nations; this for a redlink I left on the
1219:
that's fine to say about a discussion that you presided over on an isolated guideline talkpage that you didn't invite anyone but your friends into..... WP:ETHNICGROUPS is clear on the variability of "X", "Xs", or "X people" and says nothing being people
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The history section has a reference to another main article and this reference suggests that it will treat the history of Nisga'a in a more elaborate manner. It does not really make sense to refer to this article on a geological phenomenon, however.
1452:
That's over an 8:1 ratio in favour of the people article. your pet guideline needs revising; in fact I think it needs to be scrapped and completely rewritten, this time with an eye to facts, not the POVs of people whose primary interest is only
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LOL that's funny I already tried that and got criticized for mis-procedure. Your pet guideline was never discussed at a central location nor even brought up with other affected/conflicting guidelines nor any relevant wikiprojects. And as for
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cases ethno/culture articles and government/organization articles do NOT coincide; this is more or less not the case here, but making the separation between articles will help with indexing and x-referencing and just being, well, precise.
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Well, I see mostly opposes that have nothing to do with the bulkiness of the move request. There is a certain smugness in suggesting that the opposers' arguments are necessaily flawed and that the closer did not consider the arguments.
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TWODAB page without discussion on its talkpage, or notice to WPCANADA/BC or IPNA, based solely on NPA, after five stable years. the NCL contention that language and people articles is utterly false, as borne out by these view stats:
802:
The word really ends phonologically in a glottal stop, which is reflected in the apostrophe. Phonetically, the preceding vowel is weakly rearticulated after the syllable-final glottal stop, which is what is reflected in the following
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755:, I don't know any Nisga'a.....but the apostrophe can represent a bunch of things depending on which native language, and which orthographic system, is at question. Many BC native languages use '7' for the glottal stop -
1139:"mostly opposes" either in reference to certain items, some of which I withdrew for dab page reasons, at least one "procedural oppose" for not filing them individually; and "opposes" which cite your guideline but ignore
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but still not sure about why that unicode so leaving it until you fix it; is that an underline-g or ??. And I'm not sure about this, and of course you would be, but if the appropriate name for the Nisga'a government is
1229:
long ago had devised the use of "FOO" and often "PREFERRED ENDONYM" (for Canada especially, where such terms are common English now and your pet terms are obsolete and in disuse and often of clearly racist origin e.g.
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per CambridgeBayWeather. In cases where the requested move simply eliminates the word "people", and the destination title is already a simple redirect to the current title, it is clear that guidelines favoring both
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I'd put in main Knowledge, but apparently they're "source documents" so should go to WikiSource instead; that would include texts of historical material as well as current constitutional/treaty material.
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internal politicsl history of the band(s), historical chiefs/councillors, details of lands etc; this page should focus on ethnographic/cutlural/historical materials distinct from stuff to do with the
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1473:- those searches were done using the ordinary apostrophe, not the special one this article title was jerry-rigged with, apparently to get around a redirect, just as an endash was used at
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term, with explicit disambiguation, is preferred for both articles". "Nisga'a" was made a dab page in response to this guideline, only to be made a redirect later without discussion. --
1035:"We" is not all of Knowledge obviously, it's you, Kwami and Uysvdi and other NCL regulars concocting a bad guideline (which is not a "policy") that is in conflict with various others.
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Affairs' definition there anymore, so just the villages to add on my part. The history of the land question and plight should make for some good reading here, too.--
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No, no-one would criticize you for discussing this rationally. But this multitude of move requests is disruptive. They should all be closed without prejudice. —
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equally primary topics, the basis of NCLANG is a fallacy and only the work of a small handful of editors who are resistant to any criticism of their agenda.
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and the negotiation history behind it - ?? - should be high-priority anyway, if not extant, whatever its proper article/agreement/document title....).
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318:, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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also applies given that Nisga'a is a redirect here. There is no need to redo any guideline as it already supports the un-disabiguated title.
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have to say about this. The smugness in your suggestion for me to "try to change the guideline" in in a space dominated by the same small
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768:(coyote) is the word that comes to mind; kind of like a Korean double-t /tt/......given taht all these languages are part off the same
653:, this page is about history, culture, people, ethnography....) is fleshed out; I'd imagine there's already a separate article on the
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Knowledge has policy that the people should go at "XXX people" and the language at "XXX language", with "XXX" being a dab page, see
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The land-claim's settlement was the first formal treaty between a First Nation and the Province of British Columbia in modern times.
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any with the Province, unless the Treaty 6 areas were somehow acknowledged by the early BC regime when it joined Confederation (?).
1675:, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
1326:. There is no policy that says any such thing as articles must be at "foo people" or "foo language". There are two guidelines,
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it has been explained to me is only the work of two editors; but only one authored the section that keeps on being cited from
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for example, and it's fairly standard in Salishan languages, also found in Nuu-chah-nulth, not sure about the others; I think
1083:
same way. Then maybe we can find a way to improve it and hence Knowledge. As for the category, why not just rename those? --
1217:"There was a discussion once on whether the ethnicity should have precedence for the name, and it was decided it shouldn't"
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Only a large stub; this should be a larger article for many reasons, esp. the political history (ditto with neighbouring
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Postscript to the above; I just noticed inthe nifobox someone has placed "band of clans" with links for band going to F=
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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for the same purpose; with the special apostrophe of the current titles, the results are in the same proportion/ratio:
933:
Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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per nom. An identified people should be the primary topic of a term absent something remarkable standing in the way.
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but all in time; this one's just priority-enough and has enough independent ethno content to make it worth doing.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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Also have a look at my website, it is total information on our culture, history, language and traditions.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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try again at the individual articles without reference to the others and you accuse me of being smug?
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Perhaps more importantly, we need a separate and expanded article on the 2000 Nisga'a agreement. -
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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736:? Is that generally a fair assumption when I see First Nations words with apostrophes in them?
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1021:. If you don't like that, try to change the policy. I'm neutral w.r.t. using an apostrophe. --
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until the issue is addressed properly. These should be discussed at a centralized location.
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I'm not sure but I think Tlingit may use the colon, or the period, for the glottal stop.
1594:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by
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and were in fact dismissive about any such effort. Pfft. NCLANG fans like to pretend
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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https://web.archive.org/20120415094001/http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1100100031252
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Last edited at 15:54, 5 April 2014 (UTC). Substituted at 01:19, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
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983:. Haven't looked close, but the /’/ character is anamalous in such titles e.g.
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need for separate nation/ethno article vs. one for the Nisga'a Nation government
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means "people who are Nisga'a. You linguists should really get with the times.
1600:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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1334:. Both of those guides support the un-disambiguated terms as does a policy,
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Articles about ethnic groups that currently have issues needing resolution:
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Period, ever, that's it. The only prior treaties (I think) were with the
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Resolve the disparity in importance rankings among different ethnic groups
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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without comment, perhaps to avoid an extant redirect? Main article was
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995:. Current proposal is to revert to usual ordinary-English apostrophe
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal.
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.
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Lillooet ones that helped trip over the Potlach Law, because
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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moved by Kwami from "Nisga’a" to current "Nisga’a people"
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Knowledge:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America
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WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America articles
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Start-Class Indigenous peoples of North America articles
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I have just added archive links to one external link on
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Knowledge:Article titles#Use commonly recognizable names
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Knowledge:Article titles#Use commonly recognizable names
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Template:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America
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1212:"These should be discussed at a centralized location."
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Knowledge:Naming conventions (ethnicities and tribes)
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Knowledge:Naming conventions (ethnicities and tribes)
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http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1100100031252#chp11
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Came by looking for certain declaration date, but...
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Knowledge:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Article requests
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Category:Ethnic groups articles needing reassessment
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Category:Ethnic groups articles needing merge action
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1604:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
963:– target is redirect to current title; NB original
348:This article has not yet received a rating on the
135:This article has not yet received a rating on the
431:Category:Ethnic groups articles needing attention
421:Category:Ethnic groups articles needing infoboxes
583:Actually, I believe the proper wording there is
1671:, and are posted here for posterity. Following
637:of them maybe - it's best to redlink them (see
90:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America
1590:This message was posted before February 2018.
1665:The comment(s) below were originally left at
397:of articles within the scope of this project.
8:
121:Indigenous peoples of North America articles
1039:has been ignored by all of you as has what
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411:Category:Unassessed Ethnic groups articles
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1773:Unknown-importance Ethnic groups articles
1758:Mid-importance British Columbia articles
1328:Knowledge:Naming conventions (languages)
632:List of external links in main text/body
585:...and the Province of British Columbia.
1706:2001:1C02:1907:9500:386E:8041:AF78:187A
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1483:"Nisga’a people" was viewed 2,537 times
1439:was viewed 693 times this month (March)
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979:without comment and in violation of
869:. A few others need doing yet e.g.
527:cool. thanks for the links. peace –
308:This article is within the scope of
202:This article is within the scope of
87:This article is within the scope of
1743:Start-Class Canada-related articles
1195:be at "X", "Xs", or "X people". —
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1673:several discussions in past years
1544:. Please take a moment to review
1248:especially yourself as its author
1102:filing each one separately, so I
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1322:Forgot about the comment from
969:moved by JorisV on Aug 24 2011
849:Equivalent splits exist, e.g.
591:- and wait a minute, with the
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855:Shuswap Nation Tribal Council
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322:and see a list of open tasks.
264:This article is supported by
216:and see a list of open tasks.
109:and see a list of open tasks.
1763:All WikiProject Canada pages
813:01:28, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
728:The apostrophe in Nisga'a...
699:20:01, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
689:19:51, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
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495:Have a look at our website:
267:WikiProject British Columbia
222:Knowledge:WikiProject Canada
99:Indigenous peoples in Canada
1475:Heiltsuk-Oowekyala language
1253:but never held one yourself
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867:Council of the Haida Nation
819:Split needed - Nisga'a vs.
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1537:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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1592:After February 2018
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18:Talk:Nisga’a people
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761:Nlaka'pamux
757:Skwxwu7mesh
669:Laxgalts'ap
41:Start-class
1722:Categories
1689:(6 May 06)
1236:still lost
1106:given the
1074:, but you
832:government
770:sprachbund
651:government
593:Colony of
383:Place the
1636:this tool
1629:this tool
1497:problems.
1387:precision
1149:WP:NCLANG
989:St'at'imc
851:Secwepemc
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393:template
1687:Skookum1
1642:Cheers.—
1552:cbignore
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1699:History
1683:Gitksan
1652::Online
1581:checked
1546:my edit
1542:Nisga'a
1428:illicit
1414:JorisvS
1382:Support
1359:Support
1292:Support
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696:Keefer4
533:(speak)
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219:Canada
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