Talk:Nissan Caravan

4482:. You don't want to go anywhere else, so no hatnote is needed. At least that is the assumption that underlies the Knowledge policy on hatnotes. Now, from the discussion, it's clear that some people don't see it this way. They are curious about other things related to caravans. Which is great, curiosity is a fine thing. But satisfying the user's curiosity is not the purpose of a hatnote. Hatnotes are there for users who know what they want, to help them find it as quickly as possible. Playing association games and surfing around Knowledge to expand your knowledge may be fun, and there's no harm in doing that. But that's not our basic mission. We are here to build an encyclopedia. Anything that detracts from the experience of users trying to use it like an encyclopedia is to be discouraged. In principle. Like I said, I'm not unsympathetic to people who enjoy exploring the world. But I would ask them to have a little sympathy themselves for people who are trying to concentrate on their work or their studies and don't want to be distracted. – 4672:

internationally. Japan has been in the car game just as long as "the West" and I try to bring attention to their contributions, especially when the product shares a common name used in Western cars, like the Caravan. There are dozens of others I can think of, where I've added hatnotes, only to find them having been reverted, because they "clutter the top of the page unnecessarily". To me, this comes off as "information sequestering" based on someone's ruling that "this contribution has been deemed irrelevant or inappropriate"...gavel pounds desk...and comes off as rude, to say the least. A hatnote is entirely appropriate, whether it refers to another article or a disambiguation page. Once I become familiar with the agreed upon convention, you can count on me adding the correct hatnote, and referencing this conversation for justification for other editors of the "Central Committee"...

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lapel and saying "I know you came here for the Nissan Caravan, but can I interest you in a Dodge Caravan?" Some people find this very annoying. I do. No, I'm not interested, and could you please let go of my jacket? Another is that the guideline applies to "a reader who is following links within Knowledge". This applies generally to WP guidelines. We can't structure our articles according to what users do or don't do on Bing or Google. Then you are assuming an extraordinary degree of ignorance. That someone looking for a Dodge Caravan doesn't know that it's sold by Dodge, and doesn't know the difference between a van and a minivan. This is different from not knowing the difference between

1901:, "in 'real life' outside the bubble of the Wiki editing community many readers use Google, Bing, Yahoo!, DuckDuckGo, etc. to perform info searches, the results of which may often lead to specific articles rather than disambiguation pages." Also, as an added benefit, I think such links encourage readers to make new discoveries; they may serve to reveal 'unknown unknowns' in addition to the 'known unknowns' of intentional info searches. A boon to editors like myself who like to explore broadly – but don't necessarily wish to resort to the full-on craps shoot of the 'Random article' link. -- 1593:@Regushee, sometimes I wonder as well ... I frequently use Knowledge as a place of discovery and empathize with others who do so as well. Surfing wikilinks is one of my favorite activities. I think 'Imperial' and 'Sprinter' both make good examples. Regushee, I don't think you've violated any convention, personally I think when you attempted to restore a disambiguation hatnote to the article you were actually applying one (as your links have indicated). Would you like to offer a !vote while you're here as to whether to 'keep' or 'remove' the hatnote now in place? -- 3918:, and both the European Opel and Brazilian Opala are combined into this one article. Listing the "Chevrolet Caravan" is not directly clear to the reader, unless they read the article entirely. The disambiguation page is sufficient in this instance. Unless a declaration that all articles should refer the reader to the disambiguation page, and then selecting the article of interest. There still seems to be this pervasive intent from opinions expressed to limit knowledge and discovery of these vehicles unless the "Central Committee" deems it appropriate.( 1974:. The idea that some of us speak for the common man (real Americans, real Joe Bloggs, the real Joe Sixpack, real hockey moms, and real -- give it a rest already, OK?) and anybody you disagree with is kind of non-real (unreal?) fake or poseur or elite is absurd on its face. If you have data about the behavior of the general population, cite it. If you don't, don't assume you are the Common Man. Based on the evidence I see, if you the kind of person who !votes in RfCs, you're in the 1% of the 1% and you'll never live that down. -- 21: 205: 468: 450: 3121:. Largely per Kevinjonesin. One could easily end up at the wrong article without realizing it, for example by googling "caravan van". As a general point on information-seeking behaviour, designing a system based on strong asssumptions about exactly what a user will think and do is a failing strategy. It is much better to design a system with robust interconnection and many navigation options, because users are always unpredictable.-- 2278:- the reason not to have these tags is that the vehicles are a) unrelated b) have different names (ie, there is nearly no risk whatsoever of ending up at the wrong one - the unitiated would go to the Caravan dab page), and c) there are lots of other vehicles named something including "Caravan". The hatnotes add nothing beyond visual clutter and if anything, incorrectly implies that the articles refer to related things. 609: 3433:

should have specified said subject in search parameters". Gavel pounded on desk...sceptre resolutely contacts ground with resounding thud by monarch, those in attendance in court are hurriedly cleared out of the royal chambers. The mere mentioning that two passenger and cargo transportation devices made by two different manufactures which share the same brand name..."caravan"...should have been cleared by the

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the car industry. They could very well have an image of a Nissan Caravan in mind, yet type Dodge Caravan because they are just guessing the names of car companies and Dodge is as plausible a guess as Nissan or Rover or Nash to them. There are also people who just want a phone, and don't have a clear idea of the difference between an Android and an iPhone. Some people find this attitude shocking. Anyway,

195: 3102:. There is nothing ambiguous about the title of this article. We can't force readers who came here specifically to read about the Nissan Caravan to look at information about another article just because some user may have made a vague search on Bing or Google. Every hatnote has a cost in terms of reader distraction and general clutter. They shouldn't be used unless there is a good reason. – 174: 3743:? I will argue against it because of the obvious potential for abuse. Like the hatnotes that clutter up the top of policy and help pages in the WP namespace, which are there because one-letter shortcuts exist to some topics, and some editors feel that there should be hatnotes to other topics that begin with the same letter. After all, who knows what the user wanted when he typed 143: 478: 300: 279: 3636:,We have different opinions. For example, a user is not sure of the van name, If a user does a google search on Nissan caravan, the user gets WP Dodge caravan as the 1st result, then by going to WP Nissan caravan, learns there is also a Dodge Caravan, which is what the user was seeking, or now knows there are 2 vans to compare. The hat note gives more info to a user. 59: 95: 3771:

citizens will ever see the other vehicle. That said, Knowledge does offer the opportunity for anyone interested that references to the other are available. An appropriate hatnote has been restored to simplify things, and referring the reader to the disambiguation page does seem excessive, based on the conversations recorded. Thanks (

5154:, thanks for suggesting to your fellow editors that more general meta conversation aimed at clarifying guidelines—regarding the use of hatnotes to disambiguate and increase ease of discovery for readers of other articles across the wiki where multiple manufacturers have made use of the same model name—might do well to carry on at " 3489:. But OK. Suppose they don't know. Such people can do what every user will do in that situation – simply enter "Caravan" in the search box. That leads directly to the disamb page which has a special section on automobile models and contains all the information that the hatnote does, and more. What is wrong with that? – 2782:. At present this gives you four options, which, in my opinion, should be sufficient without the need for hat tags on the articles. If there was no reasonable distinguishing feature such as the Perl/Pearl example or pages where the naming is indistinguishable then I could see some sense in having one such as the 2945:, that makes it clear that there are several options. For your option to be valid the person would need to already know or guess that Nissan or Dodge make the Caravan model. I agree with your example about i-phones and androids - most of us don't care as long as it does what you want it to. If you go to the 2724:

Conform to the guidelines as written, and widespread practice, and argue to have the guidelines changed if you think it's wrong. Deviating from the MOS this way makes Knowledge worse. Besides, both the Dodge and Nissan Caravan have been made in people mover or cargo-specific versions. They are not even a

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to end up at Dodge Caravan in error does not make it likely. This is quite different from the Treaty of Paris articles - those titles are much more similar, usually only separated by a year at the end, and the fact that this is held up as a disputable case indeed strengthens the case for not having a

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is relevant here. As it states, "the presence or absence of hatnotes in articles with disambiguated titles has been a contentious issue, and this guideline doesn't prescribe one way or the other." I view the case at hand more like the Treaty of Paris example it gives, where the hatnote is included in

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I have an old Urvan as a farm vehicle, though we have had it since new back in the 1980s. The exterior is silver with a mostly purple/blue decal/pinstripe running the length of the body. It seats nine (in 3 rows of 3), and has the original tan fabric interior. It looks nothing like any of the Nissan

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of those hatnotes redirect the user to articles that might be expected to carry the same exact title. Thus the need for disambiguation on the article pages, as with titles that are easily misspelled. Jaguar vs Jaguar is thus different than Nissan Caravan vs Dodge Caravan, in that the expected titles

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IMO this is worse than the original hatnote that simply mentioned the Dodge, because it's longer. There is also the nagging objection that a van (the Nissan) is usually a commercial vehicle, not for carrying people, and a minivan (the Dodge) is usually the opposite. If we must have a hatnote, can we

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and the different titles ensure that nearly no one would arrive at either article in error. The only time my local version of Google places either of these two articles as the top result is if I search for the full term. It is far beyond the scope of Knowledge to rescue a user who enters "Studebaker

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Thanks Regushee and Dennis for your thoughts on the topic. To address them - Regushee I frequently use hatnotes and they represent an important means to avoid confusion. I am not against them per se. The use on the Pearl article is an appropriate use. The use on the Lexus NX and Nissan NX is a maybe

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for example, which incidentally also has a "hat tag", which in this case seems appropriate for some reason, then again, it might also get removed for me having mentioned it. Some editors just want what they want, and can find "regulations" and other editors to support their assertions. We'll have to

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to show how they should work. As for Regushee, he makes his goals clear above: to increase awareness of Japanese cars. I also love old Japanese cars (at least 50% of my edits concern them, I should think), but this is simply not what hatnotes are for. We are opening up the field here for editors to

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Many users don’t use a site’s built in search box, preferring instead to either go back to Google (etc.) or to try to navigate to their destination. Effective site design allows for all of these options. We can and should take into account how people actually use the site in terms where they arrive

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Information seekers with fairly complete information about what they are looking for can effectively use a search box, but users with incomplete information will conduct an exploratory search, which is much more effective in an environment that supports browsing and not just search. Strong browsing

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I would ask again to look at the FAs I listed. Look at as many FAs you want. The community clearly has decided that we hatnote names that have as few as one word in common, even if one is a big cat in the Panthera genus and the other is British car marque for recently divorced men of a certain age.

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Somebody went and placed disambiguation tags on articles that will never ever be confused. No one who is looking for Dodge Caravan will read Nissan Caravan on accident and vice versa. And the Cessna Caravan warning is plainly absurd. Just additional useless debris placed here for no reason. Thanks,

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I'd like to see a few basic principles acknowledged here. One is that the real estate occupied by a hatnote is extremely valuable – right after the title and before the lead, so that everyone who comes here is forced to read it, even readers who only read the lead. It's like someone grabbing your

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The guideline you cite explicitly states there is no consensus on whether to include hatnotes in articles with disambiguated names, and highlights an example where such hatnotes are included. Given how egregiously biased the formulation of this RFC is, it's quite a stretch to view disagreeement on

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I don't agree that readers would never mix up Nissan and Dodge. The assumption lacks evidence, and there is evidence that many don't easily tell them apart. As a gearhead, I can't imagine thinking Nissan and Dodge are interchangeable. But many people really do pay that little attention to cars and

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Sometimes, I just wonder why there are objections to simple subjects. Knowledge is an environment where the reader can discover...if someone was familiar with the Chrysler built minivan called the Caravan, and didn't know there was another vehicle in Asia that used the same name, why does a simple

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there is no reference to the 4 x 4 option for the nissan caravan. I have a 1989 moden with the E24 body shape and a sort of PTO off the back of the gearbox which drives the front wheels. Front suspension is by torsion bars instead of coil springs, I think the front end may be similar to the Navara

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I thought, suppose a patser like me were looking for a car to buy, and someone suggested a Nissan Caravan, and I looked in the Knowledge, and, to my surprise and delight, I found that there was also a Dodge Caravan, and maybe also a Mercedes Caravan, or whatever - lots of these Caravans to choose

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it is very clear how and when hatnotes should be used. Neither Mr Choppers nor I think that any of the people wanting the hatnotes in this instance have put forward sufficient reason in line with the for it to be retained. The point we feel the arguments have failed to address is why you consider

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apply here? There are no confusing redirects, and the titles are not similar. When I google "caravan van" (in the US) I get a variety of results, with the WP entry for Nissan Caravan in fourth place. The first results are about the Dodge Caravan, meaning that a user would disambiguate long before

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the target audience for such a dab tag. I can see how with the knowledge and experience you bring to bear a disambiguation tag might seem trivial or frivolous to you, but please consider that not everyone comes to an encyclopedia with such a wealth of knowledge in advance. A lack of knowledge may

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would have helped. I could also try and find more examples, of which I can think of two, that I could include, but if I do, it might result in those other articles also having their "hat tags" removed as well. I am available for further communication; please feel free to reach out. I hope I don't

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Are you asking, why am I even bothering to participate in an RFC on a topic in which I have no interest? Good question. There are a lot of editors who spend their time rummaging about the Knowledge and making odd comments on topics about which they couldn't care less, but I am not one of them. I

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People tend to click on the first thing they see that looks remotely correct, without taking in all of the available options. If they reach a dead end, they go back. It’s therefore important to quickly help them confirm whether they are in the right place. This also means that sites that provide

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When reading web pages, people demonstrably don’t read it thoroughly like the page of a book from top to bottom. They jump around, they scan, they skim. One therefore shouldn't design based on the assumption that the user read and absorbed everything on the previous page they saw. It’s also more

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and agreed upon before brand name was bestowed on said vehicle to avoid this "consternatious situation", thus endeavoring to alleviate the stress unjustly imposed upon the citizenry. Why is there a problem mentioning the Dodge Caravan on the Nissan page, and vice versa? Isn't this the purpose of

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have decreed that "certain topics of information are deemed irrelevant to be known by virtue that the Dodge Caravan is a recognized topic of interest to the general public, and shares nothing noteworthy with the Nissan Caravan. If said reader wishes to learn about the Nissan Caravan, said reader

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As for providing links to other interesting things, there is the article for that. If not, we could put hatnotes for all kinds of things atop any and all articles. I would welcome Kevjonesin to provide a possible scenario for how a user would end up at the wrong article, as per wpneale's comment

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I think my point, which I've been trying to delicately make, is starting to take hold. As you've might have noticed, I find myself trying to increase awareness of Japanese industrial contributions, as most articles focus on the American and European examples. Currently, it seems, that to own an

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Having argued strongly against the hat note I think Ravpapa's explanation brought me around to thinking that if the hat note indicated to the that there were alternative makes I think that would add value to the less informed. Which means I am tending to accept some of the earlier arguments put

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like me were looking for a car to buy, and someone suggested a Nissan Caravan, and I looked in the Knowledge, and, to my surprise and delight, I found that there was also a Dodge Caravan, and maybe also a Mercedes Caravan, or whatever - lots of these Caravans to choose from. But that would only

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Why is the vehicles nationality origin a factor? The Nissan Caravan is a passenger vehicle in Asia before Dodge used the same name and purpose in North America. Millions of dollars are spent by marketing departments internationally to trademark names of all sorts, including vehicle model names.

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It's my sense that disambiguation would be more in place to help a, perhaps technologically naive, reader looking for info about a vehicle (or vehicles) simply named 'Caravan'. Mr. Chopper, I get the impression that you're a person with a broad and detailed knowledge of vehicles (types, models,

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You do not have an argument. Your entire stance is based on the mistaken notion that Nissan Caravan=Dodge Caravan. Two articles on the car named Chrysler Town & Country are confusing, and users need a redirec. I have responded directly to all of your supposed arguments and I expect the same

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some sort of dab hatnote in place as in 'real life' outside the bubble of the Wiki editing community many readers use Google, Bing, Yahoo!, DuckDuckGo, etc. to perform info searches, the results of which may often lead to specific articles rather than disambiguation pages. I see it basically as

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No one has responded to a single issue I have raised. You pretended to respond above but only by pretending to misread what I said. Distinguish is there to make sure that things that have similar spellings are not confused. TRHAT also makes abundantly clear not to place this trivially, which is

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which is precisely the reason that having a hat note for two clearly titled articles is even more pointless. If there is no need for a hat note for an unclear item and the disambiguation page is sufficient then how much more is the disambiguation page sufficient for a completely clear article.

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An argument put forward by Denis Bratland suggests that as they are a similar type of vehicle they should have a hatnote. I would suggest that this is incorrect. The Chrysler is a people mover whereas the Nissan is a utility vehicle, which sometimes includes seats. I agree with his comment the

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I'd like to thank everyone who added their opinion as to whether or not these two articles should notify readers that the other exists. In the respective home markets of Japan and America, the Dodge Caravan and Nissan Caravan aren't available in the others marketplace, so it's highly unlikely

2702:, which is an essential component of Knowledge. Removing these opportunities for additional discovery, as mentioned by earlier comments by User:Kevjonesin and User:Dennis Bratland reflect this premise. Why are some subjects deemed irrelevant, based on an editor or group of editors opinions?( 4671:

and so on. But the same attitude doesn't seem the same for old Japanese cars...this isn't meant as a slight to Korean or Chinese, it's just that there aren't that many...yet, while Japanese cars from the 60s and 70s are still on the road, and are starting to show up at enthusiast car shows

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That is not how the FA hatnotes work, as I have explained a few times already. WP:HAT is for when articles have similar titles, whether exactly the same or so close that careless spelling would send a reader to the wrong place. Neither threshold is even approached in this case. Otherwise,

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of the guideline that we should still include some form of hatnote to aid navigation. In particular, the contexts of the two articles are very close (both are models of car named "Caravan") and they might reasonably be confused for one another or turn up in the same searches. A single

3617:- I think this proves the opposite. If you type the word caravan into a Google search you get over 100 million hits. If you type it into Knowledge you get one page with a nice tidy set of options, including the four different vehicle makers. If they use the click and go back approach 2888:

and are examples of the recent convergence in perception of car brands, partly to globalization, with brands losing a national identity, diffusion of technology, etc, making them interchangeable to non-car enthusiasts who only want to drive from A to B and don't care how or in what.

4135:. In addition to textual similarity relevant to navigating an encyclopedia, the terms have also been applied to two similar types of vehicle, a type of 'van' and a type of 'minivan' (itself a subclass of 'van'), among other things. To assert similarity does not deny differences, and 4146:

has proposed; seems to me such would address both concerns about offering at hand discovery and disambiguation to naive readers while also minimizing the hatnote's 'footprint' at the head of the article so as to better accommodate style/layout concerns that have been raised.

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argues that a user unfamiliar with cars would somehow get here by searching for "caravan", but such a search would take them to the disambiguation page, from where they could easily find the correct article. Thus, no need for these tags that litter pages for no reason. From

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I think part of the problem here is that people don't understand the policy. There are two things called "Jaguar" – the car and the animal. Actually there are many things called "Jaguar", but the editors of Knowledge have decided that the article on the animal will be the

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Information seekers often have very incomplete information about what they are looking for. For example, someone might only know they are looking for a vehicle called a Caravan, and not know the manufacturer, vehicle type, or the existence of more than one vehicle by that

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If the solution is to accommodate the reader who searched on "caravan" and found the disambiguation page, then select the particular article, either Nissan or Dodge, great, but both articles should also state at the top that a disambiguation page exists, like the one at

4232:'s talk page. But, having arrived here, I have read all the arguments and this seems like a no-brainer. I had no idea until now that there was more than one manufacturer using the model name "Caravan" and without some kind of warning, I would certainly be confused. 1657:- you still have not responded to the issues I have raised. I am not suggesting that this tag be added here, and your doing so is outright rude. This is not an improvement, just useless clutter. Please please please listen and respond to the points I raised above. 2653:

is clear, without the need for additional tags in the individual articles. If they were the same named make and model, then I would think that the argument held merit. The logic of your argument means that if for instance there are articles which include the word

4474:. It could mean any of the things on the disambiguation page. The situation here is different. There is no primary topic for "Caravan". So if you type "Caravan" into the search box, you go directly to the disambiguation page, You don't come here. Unlike Jaguar, 1015:

There is also the absurdity of adding Cessna Caravan to the Dodge page (but not here, and also not in reverse at the Cessna entry). What about the Nissan Caball, which only has three/four characters that are different from Nissan Caravan? And then there is the

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I wasn't suggesting every other instance of hatnotes is correct. What I was saying is that in this instance - and it is border line - it seems appropriate. If you wish to debate the use of hatnotes relating to all articles in general then take it to the

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from. But that would only happen if there was some kind of indication in the article that there were other Caravans lurking about. So, you see, from the point of view of someone who doesn't know his Caravans from a bulldozer, a hat note is a no brainer.

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Well, OK. I've said my piece and can live with the brief one that is there now. Particularly, as someone noted, because this is the English Knowledge and this vehicle has never been sold in the US, so it's conceivable that users might want a different

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As I indicated, making strong assumptions about exactly what a reader will see is problematic. In particular, readers often click on the first thing they recognize, which could well be the link to Knowledge, without paying much attention to anything

3833:, where there are two important articles competing for primacy - searching in WP would easily lead a user to the mammal when they were actually looking for the automobile. In this case we are dealing with two very different titles and a dab page at 3511:

and effective site design. Much of this is counter-intuitive, so it’s important not to assume that our own common sense alone will result in correct conclusions about effective design. A few findings from the field are particularly relevant here:

4804:", as is presently the case. Greater opportunity of discovery, covers more options. Even has the 'Aeroplanes' subsection immediately following. Appending such to something like what's in place seems fine by me as well, though a bit bulkier; ie. " 3073:, say) is the primary entry for that word/name. A user looking for the Jaguar automobile would end up on the mammal page, and it thus requires a hatnote. Here, not only are the titles different (Nissan, Dodge), but a user who searches for 1454:

provides a great example of a hatnote used correctly. Here, it serves to clear up a pair of confusing and similar names, and is thus a useful aid to the uninitiated. Hatnotes are a very useful tool, but trivial usage is no help to anyone.

2502:- the hatnotes are there to help people who may have misspelled something. How closely related the articles are is not the main concern. The reason the Honda Passport hatnote is there is because the motorcycle was also sold under that 1199:

Since Kevjonesin has not provided a response to a single point I have raised (and has not responded at all in eight days), just reinstating, I reckon a request for comment from someone who is actually familiar with what these are for.

3034:. I feel that that is quite clear. Again, I request that those in favor of these hatnotes put forth an example of exactly how someone would end up at either page in error. I believe that Google's machine intelligence, the presence of 1361:

As I see it, an issue off similarity in titles is of concern here in addition to similarity (or lack thereof) in the subject matter of the articles. There are similarities present; at the very least to the extent that they deal with

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Guidelines are flexible and can be overridden by consensus—the catch being that the guideline's existence implies a consensus that's usually wider than that formed on any individual page. In this case, I'm not sure that appeals to

3299:. Erring on the side of including a single quick hatnote solves a knowledge discovery problem for some people who'd be looking for the other car. Not including it … gives us a negligibly simpler article. The former is preferable. 2974:

Also, I still don't see either of you proving that there is a large possibility of a reader arriving at the article either by mistake or with another topic in mind. I will accept that there is a small possibility - but not large

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This restoration/change makes even less sense as it ignores the Opel and the Chevrolet. I don't think we have reached a point of agreement that the hat note is in line with the guidelines or even a consensus on its restoration.

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happen if there was some kind of indication in the article that there were other Caravans lurking about. So, you see, from the point of view of someone who doesn't know his Caravans from a bulldozer, a hat note is a no brainer.

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I'm failing to spot the difference between the model name 'Caravan' and the model name 'Caravan' (without presupposing foreknowledge of the manufacturer). Perhaps another disambiguation hatnote template might be preferable to

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without breaching the rules (or at least one I could find - so happy if you can correct me on that). I don't think it excludes what he suggested as being his reason for using it. There is an alternative and that is to use a

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then there may have been some possibility of confusion. Neither of us think that the current names would be confusing to the majority of Wiki readers. Also, neither of us think that a person searching for a car model called

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The disambiguation page found in the first search isn't terribly appealing to readers—it doesn't indicate anything relevant to a car in its search snippet—and so there is a good argument that some people will end up on

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I mentioned? Or pick your own FAs. There are many, many examples similar to the Piper Super Cub/Honda Super Cub. Hatnotes can be for misspellings, but other potential reasons for confusion justify hatnotes too. Look at

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with the real one. They are much further apart than the Dodge Caravan and Nissan Caravan. Not only are they the same class of object -- motor vehicles -- they are the same very specific type of object, a cargo van. The

3069:- First, thank you for entering the discussion. I just went through all of the FA links you listed, and in every case the hatnote is correct and justifiable (except, imho, the Piper Super Cub ones) because: the title ( 2234:

Hatnotes help readers locate a different article they might be seeking. I think the caravan hatnotes are useful to readers, do no harm, and overall useful. I do not think there was a good reason to remove the caravan

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lateral links between possible paths have fewer dead ends, and are more effective than sites that force a user to keep click the back button. Second chances to get to the desired destination are usually a good thing.

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similar to "Dodge Caravan". They share the eight last out of thirteen letters. They do not require any kind of disambiguation. If someone who didn't care for cars was to search for simply "Caravan" they would end up

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Seems reasonable to me, a notification that refers to another related article is what I'm hoping to foster, instead of "denial of discovery" based on the opinion of a select few, ready to "use the gavel"...(

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The layout of this RFC seems a bit haphazard to me (especially as visual presentation has been argued as a point of concern in this matter); I felt compelled to at least give it its own subsection heading,

5241:). This seems relevant here as it could make the preceding discussion irrelevant if it proceeds. A centralized discussion regarding the blanking of multiple established minivan articles is ongoing at 1841:'s talkpage. Hopefully he (and/or other admins) will 'weigh in' (advise/intervene) in some manner that helps us avoid the hassle of escalating to some sort of further official arbitration process. -- 3621:

suggests as the norm then they will easily find the one they are looking for. Therefore in my mind the hat note is redundant and probably confusing, given that it only give one option out of three.

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A relationship between unrelated cars (and an airplane) is implied - this ADDS confusion, it does not relieve it. This is actually what first made me react, as I thought that there was some kind of

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It occurs to that the associated cross-link above early in the overall section (preceding the RfC subsection) may have gotten 'lost in the mix' so I'm copying the contents here for consideration:

1020:, the Chevrolet Caravan, the Opel Kadett Caravan, the Opel Astra Caravan, Opel Rekord Caravan, Opel Omega Caravan, Opel Olympia Rekord CarAVan, and so on and so on ad infinitum. Similarly, 4520:

hatnotes are not only for disambiguation, "Hatnotes help readers locate a different article they might be seeking" which is broad. My experience is hatnotes are not distracting but useful.

1623:, for consistency, a tag should also be placed on the Dodge Caravan page matching the tag on the Nissan Caravan page...you should probably be the one to add it so that everyone's happy.( 4292:'s attention-grabbing edit summary. Then, because my underwear had not yet finished in the dryer, with nothing better to do, I read the arguments. And, by George, I thought, suppose a 3253:

are helpful. As someone who's made thousands of edits to simplify and standardize hatnotes, it's my opinion that WP:HAT is to some degree out of touch with how it's practiced. Even if

1374:, 'Caravan', with the relevant article titles also showing similarity in that they present the same model name, 'Caravan', as well. Such overlap doesn't seem particularly subtle to me. 2761:

without knowing the make you are unlikely to start at either the Nissan or Chrysler Caravan. The most probable search, be it on Knowledge or any other search engine, is with the word

1329:

as they imply that there is some sort of relationship between these (unrelated) vehicles. DGG: there is barely any chance of confusion. Same reason there is no hatnotes at the top of

3576:, thanks for providing the scientific principles, which I think justify keeping and restoring the hatnote, and also justified per WP Policy and good practices in Featured Articles. 5046:

is not typically used at the top of an article. It is used within seconds to refer readers to articles with more detailed information on a subject (not a disambiguation page). A

3447: 1437:

is where a non-car-person user would end up if they searched by the portion of the name that is shared. They would only end up at Nissan Caravan if they searched for that name.

3077:

ends up at a dab page. It is redundant to place a hatnote here. What I am saying is that these are different cases and the examples you list all use hatnotes correctly. Best,

4466:. So if you type "Jaguar" into the search box, you go directly to the article on the animal. But since you may have wanted one of the other things, there is a hatnote to the 949:, but regardless, identical existing model names used by multiple manufacturers seems to me precisely the sort situation where disambiguation may prove useful to readers. -- 1555:

note at the top offend? But for whatever reason, it does seem to, and Knowledge tries to accommodate by attempting to build consensus, and there are options. For instance,

5321: 3735:

This is arguing for hatnotes as a discovery aid for users who don't really know what they want. That's one way to think about it, but it's incompatible with the policy in

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Dennis - I don't think I need to prove that no-one could get confused. What I am saying is that the path to identifying the vehicles takes the reader through an area,

4340:

forward. My view is that this is an exception to the general rule, rather than open season for hat notes. Cases such as this would need to stand on their own merits.

3829:

as an example - the hatnote concerns other articles on topics which would have also been titled "Charles Darwin", had there not been a primary topic. Same thing with

1083:

No, because they all have different "family" names. Otherwise there would also be such tags on all pages with people who have the first name Isabella, for instance.

2424:

while including a hatnote for an airplane and an SUV. This is very clearly well within guidelines, and is nothing like the 'Examples of improper use' listed in

1567:. Now lets watch my comments "blow up" into a warmer discussion because I'm not understanding what's being proposed, what convention I've violated, etc., etc.( 1216:

is meant to separate articles that might be easily confused through spelling error, ie articles with titles that are very similar. This clearly falls afoul of

4261:

to have a hat note, yet you say you have no interest in cars, therefore, why would it matter to you whether the article has one or not other than curiosity?

1056:

If the term "Caravan" is used on multiple vehicles, then maybe someone should consider inserting a disambiguation link at the top of each "Caravan" article.(

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Having read the above comments and suggestions my conclusion is that the hat note does not add anything to the locating of articles about vehicles called a

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of any articles by way of hatnotes. Mentioning the other vehicles within the body of the introductory paragraph with "wikilinks" is even more senseless. (

1231:

Only mention other topics and articles if there is a large possibility of a reader arriving at the article either by mistake or with another topic in mind

994:. One would not misspell Nissan "Dodge". A few bored editors have sprayed these tags onto a number of articles sharing partial names (I'm looking at you, 1157:, from where they would easily be able to find their way to the correct article. And again, if this was not the case then there would be similar tags on 742: 625: 4224:: I have no knowledge and no interest in cars, and I was attracted to this dispute only by the incredibly insulting and inappropriate edit summary by 3047:. These article titles are not ambiguous and no one has credibly explained how someone would accidentally arrive at one when they wanted they other. 877:

Seems interest in this RFC died out a month ago. And then we could not get a closer to settle this for some weeks. Well, the result is to leave the

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The examples previously given have shown that where names can be easily confused hat notes should be used, a point I think we all agree on. Under

2953:

pages, you don't find a hat tag referencing one another, even thought the average user may consider them to be one in the same. Hence my argument.

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usually don't participate in discussions other than those directly related to my areas of interest. Actually, I popped over here only because of

3882:- so you are suggesting that an inaccurate hat note is the solution? The hat note does not include 2 other manufacturers of vehicle models named 3348:'s behavior has been especially galling by virtue of his being confidently and stubbornly wrong about a standard practice. You can argue for an 566: 227: 3039:

President" when they saw a Nissan President, or we would have to place similar hatnotes atop all pages for people with the first name Robert.

2885: 1518:{{About|a van manufactured by Nissan Motor Company Ltd|other vehicles given the model name 'Caravan'|Dodge Caravan|and| Cessna 208 Caravan}} 655: 648: 5311: 5281: 856: 2050:

Feel free to change it. As for the removal, first Regushee and then you altered the hatnote during the discussion. I would say that such

1448:? Or any article about persons who share either a first or last name? (this is not an invitation to go off and litter more of these tags) 5326: 1747:

and by proxy unilaterally overrule the work of whoever placed the original dab hatnotes—in place preceding this recent spate of removals

3267:. Let's suppose I'm a reader and I heard someone talking about a car called a "Caravan". I decide to look it up, and search Google for 1283:

coming down to whether we prioritize 'pretty for Knowledge editors' or 'accommodating of a wider at times naive general readership'. --

4762:

Thanks for you comments. I agree that Regushee takes the hatnote use to a position I disagree with. What I do think is that the point

3739:, which is based entirely on article titles. If you really want to make a case for hatnotes as a discovery aid, why not suggest it at 721: 675: 662: 1387:; some organization and guidance text delineating and describing intro, !vote, and discussion areas might've been helpful as well. -- 3443: 3439: 2253: 402: 316: 218: 179: 31: 4203:

of a reader arriving at the article either by mistake or with another topic in mind (emphasis added). That is the sticking point.

1876:

without the make. The search for that takes you to the disambiguated page and from there you would easily find the various makes.

1504:

as others have put in place here previously. Seems like a fine compromise to me. I'll go ahead and implement it in the article as:

5301: 5291: 2371:

I don't think that any of them are requiring hatnotes. Lexus/Nissan NX is arguable, as some might confuse these Japanese brands.

511: 503: 3503:

I feel that it’s important that our first principles in evaluating questions like this be grounded in evidence, specifically in

1204:

I hope that econ is the correct field for an RFC here. Somebody placed a "distinguish" hatnote on this page, directing users to

4677: 3312: 2854:, leave a "see also" hatnote on both articles. Either way, a hatnote will be authorized on both situations of articles...yes??( 2632: 1556: 730: 4039:" like the featured articles practice and the WP:HAT purpose "help readers locate a different article they might be seeking". 2128:

manufacturers, etc.) ... As such, please realize that you (and others with comparable preexisting knowledge) are most likely

1872:

then it would have a point. I would presume that confusion would only occur if you were searching for a vehicle model called

990:

While part of the title is similar, "Nissan Caravan" is not the same as "Dodge Caravan". And I quote from the template page:

1966:(non)arguments of living in a bubble/being out of touch/not living 'real' life is soon going to given a privileged place in 4500:, I wrote that offline. it was absolutely not intended as a dig at your user name. I apologize if it caused any offense. – 4329:

thanks for the above, it was very helpful. In light of your comments and I think maybe the way forward would be a hat note

3539: 902:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

5263:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Sometimes, they are shared, when two or more companies agree to. Hat notes identifying shared model names are examples of

4168:

I don't think anyone is wanting to do away with hat notes all together. That would, as you say, be senseless. What both

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subsection of the DAB page and emphasizing "Caravan" in the displayed text. Other thoughts/suggestions/preferences? --

3450:

governing boards must be consulted and ruling proclamation uttered from within a recognized member in good standing. (

1017: 515: 507: 491: 455: 5130:- I have moved the debate about whether hatnotes are appropriate for vehicle model of different manufacturers to the 3865:

is the same, to help readers locate a different article they might be seeking, and a hatnote applies to this article.

2649:

Why would a reader confuse a Japanese vehicle for an American one? The navigation from the disambiguation page for

1493: 1451: 834:), but I am unsure of the connections between the different car models. The latter two articles are up for merge. 2846:. Place a dreaded hatnote that there is a disambiguation page on both "Caravan" articles. For other articles like 3283:

in the top three spots. I'm betting that most readers aren't going to specify "van" as well in their search, and

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is trying to avoid. If a person was unaware that the car they saw had a manufacturer, they would have typed only

5182: 3035: 1434: 1318: 831: 680: 2411:. One is a computer language, the other is a gemstone. Or using a hatnote to distingush Lovecraft's fictional 1317:

Again: if an editor is unaware that they are looking for either Dodge or Nissan Caravan, they would end up at

860: 3886:. As a compromise I suggest that if a hat note is accepted on this article then it should be along the lines 5019:

I'm personally a fan of the third option. But regardless of phrasing, I suggest narrowing the target to the

4525: 4446: 4044: 3870: 3837:, so the FA cases only provide examples of correct usage of hatnotes and thus support the case for removal. 3690: 3581: 3015: 2311: 2261: 2240: 1265:

continues to revert the removal without explaining why, we need to impose an admin solution as appropriate.

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on 19 December 2008 (UTC). For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see

2442:

that have hatnotes for articles that are more distantly related than the Nissan and Dodge Caravans include

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paragraph which would achieve the link, but I think the hat note is a tidier and less cumbersome option.

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Thanks for the thoughtful replies. My logic is this - if you were looking for a model of vehicle called a

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is meant to quickly distinguish things that could be easily confused (usually from misspelling), such as

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convinced me that for your non-petrol head there is merit in the hatnote provided that it points to the

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There is no "required threshold" for a hat note, only a vague "large possibility" which I think is met.

4992:{{see also|Caravan#Automobile models|label 1=''Caravan'' for other vehicles with the same model name}} 4972:{{see also|Caravan#Automobile models|label 1=''Caravan'' for other makes bearing the same model name}} 3892:- but quite frankly it is unnecessary for the reasons given by Mr Choppers, myself, and others above. 1947:

it takes you to the disambiguation page with a list of the different options - what could be simpler.

907:

No one will ever confuse the Nissan Caravan and the Dodge Caravan. Because they have different names.

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I'm fine with having a hatnote that links the disambiguation page rather than specific articles – as

3862: 3793: 3752: 3494: 3107: 3064: 2890: 2733: 2699: 2613: 2588: 2544: 2497: 2479: 2429: 2349: 2218: 2161: 2138: 2051: 2041: 2013: 1975: 1906: 1846: 1757: 1710: 1620: 1598: 1534: 1497: 1392: 1288: 1270: 1213: 977: 954: 946: 908: 886: 712: 4932:{{see also|Caravan#Automobile models|label 1=''Caravan'' for other makes using the same model name}} 2580: 142: 4912:{{see also|Caravan#Automobile models|label 1=''Caravan'' for other makes with the same model name}} 3825:, the practice in the Featured Articles as listed by Dennis above is fundamentally different. Take 3504: 3308: 2628: 785:

It would be a great help if someone familiar with Nissan vehicles could look at the poorly written

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

315:

on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

226:

on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

20: 5107: 5095: 4841: 4797: 4767: 4685: 4521: 4497: 4442: 4383: 4371: 4143: 4040: 3987: 3965: 3923: 3879: 3866: 3822: 3776: 3686: 3612: 3577: 3455: 3424:

Reviewing the comments made about this article is the underlying premise that a group of "editor

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Any help would be greatly appreciated, in clearing up the confusion/making the articles clearer.

688: 4730:- as it still goes against what hatnotes are for. Hatnotes exist to redirect users who may have 2568: 1931:

into a Google search and got a vast array of useless sites. You only find vehicle models called

4952:{{see also|Caravan#Automobile models|label 1=''Caravan'' for other models using the same name}} 4430:

but I would prefer adding a broader reference, a link to the disambiguation page, for example:

4131:

Again, I see the fact that both titles use the model name 'Caravan' as a point of self evident

2324:, I share your opinion. If Nissan Caravan/Dodge Caravan isn't suitable for a hat note, then is 1761: 1352: 1248: 5231: 5131: 5061: 5040: 4702: 4673: 4656: 4577: 4305: 4237: 4195: 3736: 3546: 3434: 3429: 3389: 3246: 3186: 3126: 3052: 2439: 2425: 2400: 2337: 1805:

become a target for "wiki-stalking". I have worked successfully with this editor in the past,

1559:

has been mentioned, which I seem to encounter often. There is another example I can think of,

1501: 127:

Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |

71: 3177:

articles with technically unambiguous titles to dispel residual confusion between the topics.

1423:

The titles are not the same. "Distinguish" is meant for titles that are close to each other,

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but I would consider that a more cumbersome and less useful way to achieve the same result.

4759: 4741: 4706: 4635: 4611: 4403: 4351: 4262: 4204: 4169: 4100: 4095: 4087: 3997: 3939: 3893: 3858: 3839: 3804: 3668: 3631: 3527: 3404: 3402:" is considerably more ambiguous than Nissan Caravan vs Dodge Caravan. Thus, not analogous. 3357: 3352:

from guideline-level consensus (I don't see a strong case for one here), but that consensus

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and then, as you suggested, used the same template to put a comparable hatnote in place at

1405:

The organization is nice. You still haven't responded to the majority of the issues raised:

5246: 5201: 5159: 5115: 5087: 5079: 5024: 4872: 4817: 4643: 4639: 4573: 4536: 4501: 4483: 4467: 4391: 4363: 4355: 4229: 4151: 3915: 3818: 3789: 3748: 3490: 3345: 3254: 3150: 3103: 2584: 2417: 2214: 2176: 2157: 2134: 2037: 2009: 1902: 1842: 1801: 1793: 1753: 1706: 1654: 1594: 1564: 1530: 1388: 1322: 1284: 1266: 1260: 1221: 1217: 1121: 999: 973: 950: 920: 882: 790: 4478:. There is only one thing named "Nissan Caravan". So if you came here it must be because 3259:

Anyway—to get back on topic—in this case, the ambiguity comes not from the (unambiguous)

3667:

The other point is that it simply does not reach the required threahhold for hat notes.

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applied (and it certainly doesn't in this case), invoking it comes off as wikilawyering.

2133:

even be what brings some readers to an encyclopedic article in the first place, yes? --

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template seems more apt here (even though I still don't see the need for any hatnote).

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By the way, I commend you on your politeness towards CuriousMind01 - it is refreshing.

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interpretation of a very ambivalent guideline as the worst behaviour on display here.--

3340: 3302: 3296: 3276: 3173: 3145: 3027: 3007: 2783: 2622: 2443: 2182: 1967: 1489: 1162: 827: 805: 608: 75: 4132: 5270: 5224: 5216: 5083: 4837: 4807: 4697: 4681: 4660: 4517: 4359: 4289: 4225: 4165: 3961: 3934: 3919: 3772: 3451: 3292: 3280: 2855: 2703: 2564: 2540: 2471: 2357: 2231: 2027: 2005: 1811: 1806: 1731: 1624: 1568: 1441: 1330: 1307: 1226: 1205: 1057: 995: 816: 2576: 1939:, which is not much help if you are looking for an unknown make of vehicle called a 771:

Added the nissan caravan, not much info is available about this vehicle in english..

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is very likely to arrive at either of these pages without first having been to the

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name. The airplane link is a bit of a stretch, I feel it should be removed because

2329: 1158: 1025: 1021: 823: 786: 523: 483: 1208:. At Dodge Caravan, a hatnote also suggests that perhaps the user was looking for 4189:

page. We are not saying that it is impossible, but we are saying highly unlikely.

1943:. At least if you use the search function on the of a Knowledge page and type in 4766:

made was is valid and falls within both the spirit and intent of hatnotes under

3744: 2799:

As to changing the guidelines - I think this question falls within guideline 3.

2459: 210: 4796:", linking the automobile subsection of the disambiguation page as proposed by 3149:

clicking through to a wp article. There are also images to further help. Also,

1431:

direct example offered on the template page. These pages have different titles.

1701:, I feel my arguments stand on there own merits and prefer not to engage your 1300:-- we should use whatever ways are available to help people avoid confusion. 473: 223: 200: 4895:{{see also|Caravan|label 1=Caravan for other makes with the same model name}} 2886:

Is That a Ford? Fiat? U.S. Consumers See Fewer Differences Between Car Brands

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ended up in the wrong place, not to add kismet. Again, I use the example of

4399: 3425: 3369: 3006:. Putting this in terms of Knowledge guidelines, this seems a clear case of 2851: 2507: 2447: 2345: 2001: 1810:

see where this goes...I hope it doesn't and we can go back to our projects.(

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American or European car more than 35 years old is entire acceptable, like

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I've put together some options for ease of comparison starting with what

4664: 4367: 4139:, pointing out differences does not negate the presence of similarities. 2847: 2341: 1838: 1702: 1364: 1302: 992:"This is typically used when readers have misspelled their desired title" 5254: 5209: 5192: 5167: 5143: 5064: 5032: 5020: 4999: 4979: 4959: 4939: 4919: 4902: 4860: 4845: 4825: 4811: 4792: 4784: 4754: 4714: 4689: 4619: 4590: 4544: 4529: 4509: 4491: 4450: 4433: 4422: 4411: 4332: 4309: 4270: 4241: 4212: 4186: 4159: 4113: 4048: 4036: 4010: 3969: 3947: 3927: 3901: 3889: 3874: 3852: 3834: 3812: 3797: 3780: 3756: 3694: 3676: 3585: 3550: 3498: 3459: 3417: 3393: 3374: 3317: 3272: 3230: 3190: 3168: 3130: 3111: 3092: 3074: 3055: 3019: 2984: 2950: 2942: 2898: 2863: 2843: 2820: 2779: 2741: 2711: 2689: 2650: 2637: 2592: 2552: 2525: 2487: 2463: 2412: 2386: 2365: 2315: 2298: 2265: 2244: 2222: 2200: 2165: 2153: 2142: 2121: 2069: 2045: 2017: 1983: 1956: 1910: 1885: 1850: 1819: 1783: 1714: 1672: 1632: 1602: 1576: 1538: 1470: 1396: 1311: 1292: 1274: 1180: 1154: 1098: 1065: 1043: 1003: 981: 958: 938: 890: 864: 841: 793: 775: 299: 278: 115:

This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.

4851:

I have changed the hatnote to better reflect what is being discussed.

2478:… the evidence for what standard practice should be is overwhelming.-- 1337:- while they share a portion of their name, the titles are different. 969: 4438: 3830: 3070: 2946: 2536: 2455: 2451: 812: 811:

When we bought it the dealership was changing over from being called

5243:

User_talk:NeilN#Possible problem spanning multiple vehicle articles

5150: 1325:, could you please please please respond to me? These hatnotes are 5242: 2839: 2677: 2467: 2408: 916: 497: 398: 312: 4331:

For models of vehicle named "Caravan" by other manufacturers see

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Back to ongoing discussion as to choice of template and phrasing

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to a small banner-like notification than feel overwhelmed by it.

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For others who might take interest, there's a similar thread at

968:

For others who might take interest, there's a similar thread at

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The hatnote atop Charles Darwin also does not send the user to

1868:. If there were two articles and each was about a topic called 4098:, which would be the exact analogy of what you are proposing. 3914:

The other vehicle articles with the "caravan" name are titled

2658:

in the title then they should all have a Hatnote to all other

136: 89: 53: 15: 5245:

in addition to some individually related talkpage entries. --

3344:. The handling of this appears to been poor all around, but 2811:

I do not think the proposed hatnote reaches that threshold.

1935:

when you refine the search by some specific terms - such as

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to only linking Nissan to Dodge and Dodge to Nissan with, "

2604:

of the guideline is weak, there's a good argument from the

1195:

RFC on disambiguation hatnotes for 'Caravan' named vehicles

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articles should have a hatnote, but not in this instance.

2306:

Hello Mr choppers, We have different opinions. Thank you,

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randomly add hatnotes for whatever pet causes they have.

735: 4417:

I can agree with your suggestion, I suggest a briefer:

3364:

you disagree with, then you're having that fight at the

5235: 5228: 5158:" and thanks for initiating a relevant thread there. -- 4300:

Sorry for being so prolix on this. I got carried away.

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talk page should you wish to continue the discussion.

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featured article hat note, if others agree. Thank you,

2778:

On Knowledge this takes you to the disambiguated page

4090:. It doesn't, it only mentions other people with the 3196:

Only mention other topics and articles if there is a

2801:

Only mention other topics and articles if there is a

4172:

and I am saying is that had the articles names been

3448:

Knowledge:WikiProject Japan/Japanese cars task force

1233:." Thank you, sorry to waste anyone's time on this. 1212:. This seems a) illogical and b) against policy, as 789:

article and attempt to edit it into shape. Thanks.

708:: Participate in Japan-related deletion discussions. 518:. Current time in Japan: 03:08, September 30, 2024 ( 495:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 397:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 311:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 222:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 3330:. Hatnotes are explicitly meant only for where the 2030:under the blatantly presumptive POV master heading 565:This article has not yet received a rating on the 431:This article has not yet received a rating on the 5178:Personally, I can live with what's now in place: 4257:thanks for your comments. You suggest that it is 1522:... so we can all see how it looks 'in-the-wild'. 510:, where you can join the project, participate in 119:] The anchor (Segambut, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia) 5198:... for the sake of its more compact appearance. 5188:... but would prefer to see it truncated to ... 4903:Caravan for other makes with the same model name 3990:There is a distinct and unarguable difference. 3210:, with some really contorted search terms like 2458:— almost every mammal and most other animals — 819:, but the vehicle is badged as a Nissan Urvan. 5191:For other makes with the same model name, see 5181:For other makes with the same model name, see 4580:. In all the debate, I think Ravpapa's point: 3956:What is being debated is that there should be 3200:of a reader arriving at the article either by 3002:. I support the arguments put forward by user 2805:of a reader arriving at the article either by 1257:It should be removed and if volunteer editor 35: 8: 5215:Notice: an effort is underway to remove the 5183:Caravan (disambiguation) § Automobile models 4630:Well, OK then...thanks to the comments from 4343:Another option, as a compromise, could be a 1148:For the umpteenth time: "Nissan Caravan" is 5003:for other vehicles with the same model name 4983:for other makes bearing the same model name 4578:wp:Hatnote#Linking to a disambiguation page 4322:Break to see if we are close to a consensus 3888:For other vehicle models named caravan see 3520:means strong interlinking between subjects. 3215:hatnote here, where there is no ambiguity. 2090: 574: 444: 362: 273: 168: 5322:Unknown-importance Japan-related articles 4943:for other makes using the same model name 4810:; for other vehicles named "Caravan" see 2619:hatnote should be enough for the reader. 2095:Quoted from 'Talk:Dodge Caravan#Dab tags' 1488:@Choppers, I like your suggestion to use 822:I have found these three other articles ( 5277:Pages translated from Japanese Knowledge 4923:for other makes with the same model name 2008:hatnotes in question already removed. -- 852:Can anyone give me more details? Thanks 4791:For other vehicles named "Caravan" see 4421:For other vehicles named "Caravan" see 2543:. It does not say misspellings only. -- 2093: 2004:to hold a 'Keep/Remove' !vote with the 532: 446: 364: 275: 170: 140: 4576:I accept what the policy says, namely 4350:If there is reasonable agreement from 2510:is a dab page, which is enough. Best, 881:about other makers' Caravans as is. – 3287:also turns up only the Dodge Caravan. 2728:different types of vehicles. They're 2031: 1194: 7: 5223:An effort is underway to remove the 4963:for other models using the same name 4806:Not to be confused with the minivan 3360:#1. If it's the guideline consensus 3356:be acknowledged from the outset; go 1420:version with which I was unfamiliar. 1028:- because the titles are different. 898:The following discussion is closed. 489:This article is within the scope of 391:This article is within the scope of 305:This article is within the scope of 216:This article is within the scope of 4035:OR "For other Caravan vehicles see 3817:The hatnote remains inappropriate. 2036:seems worthy of protest as well. -- 1024:does not have a tag redirecting to 502:on Knowledge. If you would like to 159:It is of interest to the following 5307:Unknown-importance Brands articles 5287:Low-importance Automobile articles 5230:and replace it with a redirect to 4476:"Nissan Caravan" is not ambiguous' 3821:laid it out fairly succinctly. To 14: 3444:Knowledge:WikiProject Automobiles 3440:Knowledge:Manual of Style/Linking 3285:Caravan car site:en.wikipedia.org 2920:- are they likely to be confused? 2280:They are actively disinformative. 2252:You may wish to post this RFC on 919:. "Care should be taken to avoid 236:Knowledge:WikiProject Automobiles 5259:The discussion above is closed. 4470:. The hatnote is needed because 3526:likely that the reader would be 3263:, but from the (highly similar) 2420:small motorcycle was rated as a 476: 466: 448: 384: 366: 298: 277: 239:Template:WikiProject Automobiles 203: 193: 172: 141: 93: 57: 19: 4678:Knowledge:Silence and consensus 3861:I think the practice listed by 3788:go back to the original one? – 3295:when they might be looking for 2436:) 20:50, 26 January 2017 (UTC) 1563:, or maybe something like this 1557:Disambiguation (disambiguation) 345:This article has been rated as 256:This article has been rated as 5317:C-Class Japan-related articles 5297:Low-importance Trucks articles 3398:Twenty-odd articles entitled " 3271:. In my real-world test I see 1835:a note regarding the situation 1496:has done so—rather than using 865:03:18, 13 September 2009 (UTC) 1: 5255:19:43, 13 February 2017 (UTC) 5210:07:47, 10 February 2017 (UTC) 5168:07:26, 10 February 2017 (UTC) 5144:02:37, 10 February 2017 (UTC) 4082:would have a hatnote listing 3509:information seeking behaviour 3269:Caravan site:en.wikipedia.org 3212:Caravan site:en.wikipedia.org 3202:mistake or with another topic 2807:mistake or with another topic 2600:—while the argument from the 2256:to alert interested persons. 1006:and ended up at the dab page. 578:WikiProject Japan to do list: 405:and see a list of open tasks. 319:and see a list of open tasks. 230:and see a list of open tasks. 5065:12:26, 9 February 2017 (UTC) 5033:11:41, 9 February 2017 (UTC) 4861:23:38, 8 February 2017 (UTC) 4846:21:43, 8 February 2017 (UTC) 4826:20:29, 8 February 2017 (UTC) 4785:01:47, 6 February 2017 (UTC) 4755:16:31, 5 February 2017 (UTC) 4715:02:57, 4 February 2017 (UTC) 4690:18:56, 3 February 2017 (UTC) 4620:10:38, 3 February 2017 (UTC) 4545:16:12, 3 February 2017 (UTC) 4530:13:38, 3 February 2017 (UTC) 4510:08:18, 3 February 2017 (UTC) 4492:08:01, 3 February 2017 (UTC) 4451:00:32, 3 February 2017 (UTC) 4412:00:11, 3 February 2017 (UTC) 4310:17:25, 2 February 2017 (UTC) 4271:09:49, 2 February 2017 (UTC) 4242:05:31, 2 February 2017 (UTC) 4213:01:58, 2 February 2017 (UTC) 4160:23:59, 1 February 2017 (UTC) 4114:15:18, 31 January 2017 (UTC) 4049:13:39, 31 January 2017 (UTC) 4011:12:17, 31 January 2017 (UTC) 3970:17:34, 1 February 2017 (UTC) 3948:08:46, 1 February 2017 (UTC) 3928:21:29, 31 January 2017 (UTC) 3902:03:19, 31 January 2017 (UTC) 3875:14:30, 30 January 2017 (UTC) 3853:00:40, 30 January 2017 (UTC) 3813:23:47, 29 January 2017 (UTC) 3798:05:53, 29 January 2017 (UTC) 3781:18:42, 28 January 2017 (UTC) 3757:05:53, 29 January 2017 (UTC) 3695:14:30, 30 January 2017 (UTC) 3677:00:26, 30 January 2017 (UTC) 3586:17:52, 28 January 2017 (UTC) 3551:15:53, 28 January 2017 (UTC) 3499:02:03, 28 January 2017 (UTC) 3460:19:30, 27 January 2017 (UTC) 3418:18:31, 27 January 2017 (UTC) 3394:17:18, 27 January 2017 (UTC) 3375:16:24, 27 January 2017 (UTC) 3318:15:31, 27 January 2017 (UTC) 3231:18:31, 27 January 2017 (UTC) 3191:15:17, 27 January 2017 (UTC) 3169:14:53, 27 January 2017 (UTC) 3131:14:28, 27 January 2017 (UTC) 3112:13:14, 27 January 2017 (UTC) 3093:12:47, 27 January 2017 (UTC) 3056:12:38, 27 January 2017 (UTC) 3020:07:40, 27 January 2017 (UTC) 2985:07:55, 27 January 2017 (UTC) 2899:05:33, 27 January 2017 (UTC) 2864:05:22, 27 January 2017 (UTC) 2821:01:22, 27 January 2017 (UTC) 2742:00:11, 27 January 2017 (UTC) 2712:23:54, 26 January 2017 (UTC) 2690:23:27, 26 January 2017 (UTC) 2638:22:17, 26 January 2017 (UTC) 2593:21:03, 26 January 2017 (UTC) 2567:notices have been placed at 2553:00:04, 28 January 2017 (UTC) 2526:12:26, 27 January 2017 (UTC) 2488:23:10, 26 January 2017 (UTC) 2403:gives examples like hatting 2387:12:26, 27 January 2017 (UTC) 2366:19:59, 26 January 2017 (UTC) 2316:16:41, 26 January 2017 (UTC) 2299:15:48, 26 January 2017 (UTC) 2266:13:42, 26 January 2017 (UTC) 2245:13:39, 26 January 2017 (UTC) 2223:01:54, 26 January 2017 (UTC) 2201:22:40, 16 January 2017 (UTC) 2166:23:14, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 2143:22:45, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 2122:18:37, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 2070:12:54, 27 January 2017 (UTC) 2046:21:17, 26 January 2017 (UTC) 2018:10:22, 26 January 2017 (UTC) 1984:23:38, 26 January 2017 (UTC) 1972:Knowledge:Arguments to avoid 1957:02:15, 26 January 2017 (UTC) 1911:01:39, 26 January 2017 (UTC) 1886:01:15, 26 January 2017 (UTC) 1851:19:57, 25 January 2017 (UTC) 1820:17:06, 25 January 2017 (UTC) 1796:, I thought my examples for 1784:15:34, 25 January 2017 (UTC) 1762:15:27, 25 January 2017 (UTC) 1715:15:27, 25 January 2017 (UTC) 1673:14:51, 25 January 2017 (UTC) 1633:05:40, 25 January 2017 (UTC) 1603:21:31, 24 January 2017 (UTC) 1577:18:58, 24 January 2017 (UTC) 1539:21:17, 24 January 2017 (UTC) 1494:'Town & Country' article 1471:15:18, 24 January 2017 (UTC) 1397:07:32, 24 January 2017 (UTC) 1353:06:32, 24 January 2017 (UTC) 1312:05:02, 24 January 2017 (UTC) 1293:01:54, 24 January 2017 (UTC) 1275:17:08, 23 January 2017 (UTC) 1249:03:49, 23 January 2017 (UTC) 1181:21:48, 20 January 2017 (UTC) 1099:03:38, 17 January 2017 (UTC) 1066:23:15, 16 January 2017 (UTC) 1044:22:42, 16 January 2017 (UTC) 982:23:11, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 959:23:11, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 939:18:46, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 842:05:10, 20 October 2007 (UTC) 776:05:42, 11 January 2006 (UTC) 411:Knowledge:WikiProject Brands 325:Knowledge:WikiProject Trucks 5312:WikiProject Brands articles 5282:C-Class Automobile articles 5193:Caravan § Automobile models 4802:Not to be confused with ... 4088:dozens of other individuals 2530:Did you look at any of the 1452:Chrysler Town & Country 1440:How is this different from 1018:Curtiss-Wright C-76 Caravan 970:Talk:Dodge_Caravan#Dab_tags 700:to articles that need them. 639:Featured content candidates 545:Knowledge:WikiProject Japan 414:Template:WikiProject Brands 328:Template:WikiProject Trucks 5343: 5327:WikiProject Japan articles 5190: 5180: 4997: 4977: 4957: 4937: 4917: 4900: 2581:WikiProject Disambiguation 2054:is much more problematic. 891:00:13, 22 March 2017 (UTC) 634: 567:project's importance scale 548:Template:WikiProject Japan 433:project's importance scale 262:project's importance scale 4888: 4885: 4333:Caravan#Automobile models 3890:Caravan#Automobile models 3442:, unless, of course, the 1962:The latest fad of mutual 1736:the hatnote phrasing here 804:Caravans featured in the 573: 564: 461: 430: 379: 344: 293: 255: 188: 167: 5261:Please do not modify it. 4133:similarity by definition 3036:Caravan (disambiguation) 2026:The choice to host this 1435:Caravan (disambiguation) 1319:Caravan (disambiguation) 998:). This is exactly what 900:Please do not modify it. 832:Nissan Van C22 (Vanette) 794:23:28, 8 July 2007 (UTC) 676:Good article nominations 26:This article contains a 5302:C-Class Brands articles 5292:C-Class Trucks articles 4480:you wanted to come here 4402:I will make the change 2569:WikiProject Automobiles 2254:WikiProject_Automobiles 219:WikiProject Automobiles 5156:Wikipedia_talk:Hatnote 4879:recently put in place: 4587: 3741:Knowledge talk:Hatnote 3487:Treaty of Paris (1626) 3483:Treaty of Paris (1623) 3400:Treaty of Paris (year) 3206:- The fact that it is 1127:clearly the case here. 612: 551:Japan-related articles 149:This article is rated 5239:Chrysler minivans (S) 4582: 4472:"Jaguar" is ambiguous 2539:for example, or read 1798:Imperial (automobile) 1561:Imperial (automobile) 611: 64:The contents of the 5234:(and then merge that 4593:disambiguation page. 4437:; as is done in the 3428:", representing the 2356:also in violation? ( 2350:Studebaker President 2052:moving the goalposts 1923:Having lived in the 1768:courtesy in return. 1621:User talk:Kevjonesin 1498:Template:Distinguish 947:Template:Distinguish 909:Template:Distinguish 847:Nissan Caravan 4 x 4 734:an article from the 716:Japan-related stubs. 512:relevant discussions 4468:disambiguation page 4432:For other uses see 3505:information science 2154:Talk:Nissan Caravan 2080:Transcription from 1927:- I typed the word 1734:, I've streamlined 1492:similar to how the 746:unassessed articles 516:lists of open tasks 506:, please visit the 242:Automobile articles 5021:#Automobile models 3030:before, thank you 2326:Chevrolet Cavalier 2181:I will respond at 2032:'Useless dab tags' 1446:War and Turpentine 1335:War and Turpentine 1327:actively confusing 1210:Cessna 208 Caravan 901: 879:single dab hatnote 736:Japanese Knowledge 722:requested articles 713:Improve and expand 705:Pages for Deletion 689:Godzilla Minus One 613: 394:WikiProject Brands 308:WikiProject Trucks 155:content assessment 5232:Chrysler minivans 5016: 5015: 4674:Knowledge:Be bold 4657:Volkswagen Beetle 4201:large possibility 3958:no mention at all 3435:Central Committee 3430:Ministry of Truth 3247:Knowledge:Hatnote 3198:large possibility 2803:large possibility 2577:WP:Disambiguation 2490: 2440:Featured Articles 2338:Vauxhall Cavalier 2210: 2209: 1986: 1751: 1526: 1502:Template:See also 899: 764: 763: 760: 759: 756: 755: 752: 751: 671: 670: 539: 500:-related articles 492:WikiProject Japan 443: 442: 439: 438: 361: 360: 357: 356: 272: 271: 268: 267: 135: 134: 110:in most browsers. 88: 87: 52: 51: 48: 5334: 5153: 5055: 5049: 5045: 5039: 4883: 4882: 4871:Hi y'all, using 4753: 4751: 4746: 4112: 4110: 4105: 4096:Darwin (surname) 4009: 4007: 4002: 3851: 3849: 3844: 3734: 3635: 3616: 3479: 3416: 3414: 3409: 3316: 3305: 3286: 3270: 3243: 3229: 3227: 3222: 3213: 3167: 3165: 3160: 3143: 3091: 3089: 3084: 3068: 2636: 2625: 2618: 2612: 2524: 2522: 2517: 2501: 2437: 2385: 2383: 2378: 2354:Nissan President 2334:Packard Cavalier 2304:User:Mr.choppers 2297: 2295: 2290: 2277: 2199: 2197: 2192: 2180: 2120: 2118: 2113: 2091: 2068: 2066: 2061: 1961: 1782: 1780: 1775: 1743: 1671: 1669: 1664: 1525: 1519: 1469: 1467: 1462: 1418:badge-engineered 1351: 1349: 1344: 1264: 1247: 1245: 1240: 1179: 1177: 1172: 1125: 1097: 1095: 1090: 1042: 1040: 1035: 937: 935: 930: 870:Useless dab tags 697:requested images 633: 632: 575: 553: 552: 549: 546: 543: 536: 534: 527: 486: 481: 480: 479: 470: 463: 462: 452: 445: 419: 418: 415: 412: 409: 388: 381: 380: 370: 363: 351:importance scale 333: 332: 329: 326: 323: 302: 295: 294: 289: 281: 274: 244: 243: 240: 237: 234: 213: 208: 207: 206: 197: 190: 189: 184: 176: 169: 152: 146: 145: 137: 129:Reporting errors 121:has been deleted 97: 96: 90: 83: 61: 60: 54: 39: 23: 16: 5342: 5341: 5337: 5336: 5335: 5333: 5332: 5331: 5267: 5266: 5265: 5264: 5221: 5196: 5186: 5176: 5149: 5100:Dennis Bratland 5053: 5047: 5043: 5037: 5006: 5005: 4993: 4986: 4985: 4973: 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1456: 1368:given the same 1347: 1340: 1338: 1258: 1243: 1236: 1234: 1197: 1175: 1168: 1166: 1119: 1093: 1086: 1084: 1038: 1031: 1029: 933: 926: 924: 904: 895: 894: 893: 872: 849: 801: 783: 781:Calling experts 769: 606: 550: 547: 544: 541: 540: 530: 482: 477: 475: 417:Brands articles 416: 413: 410: 407: 406: 331:Trucks articles 330: 327: 324: 321: 320: 287: 241: 238: 235: 232: 231: 209: 204: 202: 182: 153:on Knowledge's 150: 131: 113: 112: 111: 94: 79: 58: 12: 11: 5: 5340: 5338: 5330: 5329: 5324: 5319: 5314: 5309: 5304: 5299: 5294: 5289: 5284: 5279: 5269: 5268: 5258: 5220: 5213: 5199: 5175: 5172: 5171: 5170: 5070: 5069: 5068: 5067: 5014: 5013: 5011: 5008: 5007: 4996: 4994: 4991: 4988: 4987: 4976: 4974: 4971: 4968: 4967: 4956: 4954: 4951: 4948: 4947: 4936: 4934: 4931: 4928: 4927: 4916: 4914: 4911: 4908: 4907: 4899: 4897: 4894: 4891: 4890: 4887: 4881: 4880: 4868: 4867: 4866: 4865: 4864: 4863: 4834: 4833: 4832: 4831: 4830: 4829: 4828: 4744:Mr.choppers | 4736:Charles Darwin 4720: 4719: 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1544: 1543: 1542: 1541: 1527: 1523: 1520: 1510: 1509: 1508: 1507: 1506: 1505: 1490:Template:About 1478: 1477: 1476: 1475: 1474: 1473: 1460:Mr.choppers | 1449: 1438: 1432: 1421: 1409: 1408: 1407: 1406: 1400: 1399: 1385:after the fact 1376: 1375: 1342:Mr.choppers | 1315: 1314: 1295: 1277: 1238:Mr.choppers | 1203: 1196: 1193: 1192: 1191: 1190: 1189: 1188: 1187: 1186: 1185: 1184: 1183: 1170:Mr.choppers | 1163:Robert Redford 1137: 1136: 1135: 1134: 1133: 1132: 1131: 1130: 1129: 1128: 1108: 1107: 1106: 1105: 1104: 1103: 1102: 1101: 1088:Mr.choppers | 1074: 1073: 1072: 1071: 1070: 1069: 1049: 1048: 1047: 1046: 1033:Mr.choppers | 1010: 1009: 1008: 1007: 985: 984: 962: 961: 928:Mr.choppers | 905: 896: 876: 875: 874: 873: 871: 868: 857:122.57.116.158 848: 845: 828:Nissan Vanette 806:Nissan Caravan 800: 797: 782: 779: 768: 765: 762: 761: 758: 757: 754: 753: 750: 749: 748: 747: 739: 726: 717: 709: 701: 692: 669: 668: 660: 653: 644: 643: 642: 631: 630: 626:A-class review 622: 605: 604: 599: 594: 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5105: 5101: 5097: 5096:CuriousMind01 5093: 5089: 5085: 5081: 5077: 5074: 5066: 5063: 5059: 5052: 5042: 5036: 5035: 5034: 5030: 5026: 5022: 5018: 5017: 5012: 5010: 5009: 5004: 5002: 4995: 4990: 4989: 4984: 4982: 4975: 4970: 4969: 4964: 4962: 4955: 4950: 4949: 4944: 4942: 4935: 4930: 4929: 4924: 4922: 4915: 4910: 4909: 4904: 4898: 4893: 4892: 4884: 4878: 4874: 4870: 4869: 4862: 4858: 4854: 4850: 4849: 4847: 4843: 4839: 4835: 4827: 4823: 4819: 4815: 4813: 4809: 4808:Dodge Caravan 4803: 4799: 4798:CuriousMind01 4795: 4794: 4788: 4787: 4786: 4782: 4778: 4774: 4769: 4765: 4761: 4758: 4757: 4756: 4752: 4747: 4745: 4737: 4733: 4729: 4726: 4725: 4724: 4723: 4722: 4721: 4716: 4712: 4708: 4704: 4699: 4696: 4695: 4694: 4693: 4691: 4687: 4683: 4679: 4675: 4670: 4666: 4662: 4658: 4654: 4650: 4645: 4641: 4637: 4633: 4621: 4617: 4613: 4609: 4608: 4607: 4606: 4605: 4604: 4603: 4602: 4592: 4588: 4586: 4579: 4575: 4572: 4568: 4567: 4566: 4565: 4564: 4563: 4562: 4561: 4546: 4542: 4538: 4533: 4532: 4531: 4527: 4523: 4522:CuriousMind01 4519: 4515: 4514: 4513: 4512: 4511: 4507: 4503: 4499: 4498:CuriousMind01 4495: 4494: 4493: 4489: 4485: 4481: 4477: 4473: 4469: 4465: 4460: 4459: 4458: 4457: 4456: 4455: 4452: 4448: 4444: 4443:CuriousMind01 4440: 4436: 4435: 4429: 4425: 4424: 4419: 4418: 4416: 4415: 4414: 4413: 4409: 4405: 4401: 4397: 4393: 4389: 4385: 4384:Cloverleaf II 4381: 4377: 4373: 4372:CuriousMind01 4369: 4365: 4361: 4357: 4353: 4348: 4346: 4341: 4337: 4335: 4334: 4328: 4321: 4311: 4307: 4303: 4299: 4295: 4291: 4290:User:Dicklyon 4286: 4285: 4284: 4283: 4282: 4281: 4280: 4279: 4272: 4268: 4264: 4260: 4256: 4253: 4252: 4251: 4250: 4249: 4248: 4243: 4239: 4235: 4231: 4227: 4226:User:Dicklyon 4223: 4220: 4219: 4218: 4217: 4214: 4210: 4206: 4202: 4197: 4193: 4192: 4188: 4184: 4179: 4178:Caravan Dodge 4175: 4171: 4167: 4164: 4163: 4162: 4161: 4157: 4153: 4148: 4145: 4144:CuriousMind01 4140: 4138: 4134: 4115: 4111: 4106: 4104: 4097: 4093: 4089: 4085: 4081: 4076: 4075: 4074: 4073: 4072: 4071: 4070: 4069: 4068: 4067: 4066: 4065: 4064: 4063: 4050: 4046: 4042: 4041:CuriousMind01 4038: 4034: 4033: 4032: 4031: 4030: 4029: 4028: 4027: 4026: 4025: 4024: 4023: 4012: 4008: 4003: 4001: 3993: 3989: 3988:CuriousMind01 3986: 3985: 3984: 3983: 3982: 3981: 3980: 3979: 3978: 3977: 3971: 3967: 3963: 3959: 3955: 3954: 3953: 3952: 3949: 3945: 3941: 3936: 3933: 3932: 3931: 3929: 3925: 3921: 3917: 3904: 3903: 3899: 3895: 3891: 3885: 3881: 3880:CuriousMind01 3878: 3877: 3876: 3872: 3868: 3867:CuriousMind01 3864: 3860: 3856: 3854: 3850: 3845: 3843: 3836: 3832: 3828: 3824: 3823:CuriousMind01 3820: 3816: 3815: 3814: 3810: 3806: 3801: 3800: 3799: 3795: 3791: 3786: 3785: 3784: 3782: 3778: 3774: 3758: 3754: 3750: 3746: 3742: 3738: 3732: 3727: 3726: 3725: 3724: 3723: 3722: 3721: 3720: 3719: 3718: 3717: 3696: 3692: 3688: 3687:CuriousMind01 3684: 3683: 3682: 3681: 3680: 3679: 3678: 3674: 3670: 3666: 3665: 3664: 3663: 3662: 3661: 3660: 3659: 3658: 3657: 3656: 3655: 3633: 3627: 3626: 3625: 3624: 3623: 3622: 3620: 3614: 3613:CuriousMind01 3609: 3608: 3607: 3606: 3605: 3604: 3603: 3602: 3601: 3600: 3599: 3598: 3587: 3583: 3579: 3578:CuriousMind01 3575: 3572: 3571: 3570: 3569: 3568: 3567: 3566: 3565: 3564: 3563: 3552: 3548: 3544: 3540: 3536: 3532: 3529: 3524: 3522: 3518: 3514: 3513: 3510: 3506: 3502: 3501: 3500: 3496: 3492: 3488: 3484: 3477: 3472: 3471: 3470: 3469: 3468: 3467: 3461: 3457: 3453: 3449: 3445: 3441: 3436: 3431: 3427: 3423: 3419: 3415: 3410: 3408: 3401: 3397: 3396: 3395: 3391: 3387: 3382: 3381: 3380: 3379: 3376: 3373: 3372: 3367: 3363: 3359: 3355: 3351: 3347: 3343: 3342: 3337: 3333: 3329: 3326: 3325: 3320: 3319: 3314: 3310: 3306: 3298: 3294: 3293:Dodge Caravan 3288: 3282: 3281:Dodge Caravan 3278: 3274: 3266: 3262: 3256: 3252: 3248: 3241: 3236: 3232: 3228: 3223: 3221: 3209: 3205: 3203: 3199: 3194: 3193: 3192: 3188: 3184: 3179: 3175: 3172: 3171: 3170: 3166: 3161: 3159: 3152: 3147: 3141: 3136: 3135: 3132: 3128: 3124: 3120: 3117: 3116: 3113: 3109: 3105: 3101: 3098: 3097: 3094: 3090: 3085: 3083: 3076: 3072: 3066: 3061: 3060: 3057: 3054: 3050: 3046: 3043: 3042: 3037: 3033: 3032:Cloverleaf II 3029: 3025: 3024: 3021: 3017: 3013: 3012:Cloverleaf II 3009: 3005: 3001: 2998: 2997: 2986: 2982: 2978: 2973: 2972: 2971: 2970: 2969: 2968: 2967: 2966: 2965: 2964: 2952: 2948: 2944: 2940: 2939: 2938: 2937: 2936: 2935: 2934: 2933: 2932: 2931: 2918: 2917: 2916: 2915: 2914: 2913: 2912: 2911: 2910: 2909: 2900: 2896: 2892: 2887: 2882: 2881: 2880: 2879: 2878: 2877: 2876: 2875: 2865: 2861: 2857: 2853: 2849: 2845: 2841: 2836: 2835: 2834: 2833: 2832: 2831: 2830: 2829: 2822: 2818: 2814: 2810: 2808: 2804: 2798: 2797: 2796: 2795: 2794: 2793: 2785: 2781: 2777: 2776: 2775: 2774: 2773: 2772: 2764: 2760: 2756: 2753: 2752: 2751: 2750: 2749: 2748: 2743: 2739: 2735: 2731: 2727: 2722: 2721: 2720: 2719: 2713: 2709: 2705: 2701: 2696: 2693: 2691: 2687: 2683: 2679: 2675: 2670: 2669: 2668: 2667: 2661: 2657: 2652: 2648: 2645: 2644: 2643: 2642: 2639: 2634: 2630: 2626: 2615: 2607: 2603: 2599: 2596: 2594: 2590: 2586: 2582: 2578: 2574: 2570: 2566: 2563: 2560: 2559: 2554: 2550: 2546: 2542: 2538: 2533: 2529: 2528: 2527: 2523: 2518: 2516: 2509: 2505: 2499: 2494: 2493: 2489: 2485: 2481: 2477: 2473: 2472:Black Francis 2469: 2465: 2461: 2457: 2453: 2449: 2445: 2441: 2435: 2431: 2427: 2423: 2419: 2414: 2410: 2406: 2402: 2399: 2396: 2395: 2388: 2384: 2379: 2377: 2370: 2369: 2367: 2363: 2359: 2355: 2351: 2347: 2343: 2339: 2335: 2331: 2327: 2323: 2322:CuriousMind01 2319: 2317: 2313: 2309: 2308:CuriousMind01 2305: 2302: 2301: 2300: 2296: 2291: 2289: 2281: 2275: 2274:CuriousMind01 2270: 2269: 2268: 2267: 2263: 2259: 2258:CuriousMind01 2255: 2251: 2247: 2246: 2242: 2238: 2237:CuriousMind01 2233: 2229: 2228:Keep/restore. 2225: 2224: 2220: 2216: 2202: 2198: 2193: 2191: 2184: 2178: 2173: 2172: 2171: 2170: 2167: 2163: 2159: 2155: 2151: 2148: 2147: 2144: 2140: 2136: 2131: 2126: 2125: 2124: 2123: 2119: 2114: 2112: 2104: 2100: 2099: 2092: 2088: 2083: 2079: 2071: 2067: 2062: 2060: 2053: 2049: 2048: 2047: 2043: 2039: 2035: 2033: 2029: 2025: 2024: 2023: 2022: 2019: 2015: 2011: 2007: 2003: 1999: 1996: 1995: 1985: 1981: 1977: 1973: 1969: 1965: 1960: 1959: 1958: 1954: 1950: 1946: 1942: 1938: 1934: 1930: 1926: 1922: 1921: 1920: 1919: 1918: 1917: 1912: 1908: 1904: 1900: 1896: 1893: 1892: 1891: 1890: 1887: 1883: 1879: 1875: 1871: 1867: 1863: 1860: 1859: 1852: 1848: 1844: 1840: 1836: 1832: 1831: 1830: 1829: 1828: 1827: 1821: 1817: 1813: 1808: 1807:Hino Contessa 1803: 1799: 1795: 1791: 1790: 1789: 1788: 1785: 1781: 1776: 1774: 1766: 1765: 1764: 1763: 1759: 1755: 1749: 1746: 1744: 1741: 1740:Dodge Caravan 1737: 1733: 1716: 1712: 1708: 1704: 1700: 1696: 1695: 1694: 1693: 1692: 1691: 1690: 1689: 1688: 1687: 1686: 1685: 1674: 1670: 1665: 1663: 1656: 1653: 1652: 1651: 1650: 1649: 1648: 1647: 1646: 1645: 1644: 1634: 1630: 1626: 1622: 1618: 1617: 1616: 1615: 1614: 1613: 1612: 1611: 1604: 1600: 1596: 1592: 1589: 1588: 1587: 1586: 1585: 1584: 1578: 1574: 1570: 1566: 1562: 1558: 1553: 1550: 1549: 1548: 1547: 1540: 1536: 1532: 1528: 1524: 1521: 1516: 1515: 1514: 1513: 1512: 1511: 1503: 1499: 1495: 1491: 1487: 1484: 1483: 1482: 1481: 1480: 1479: 1472: 1468: 1463: 1461: 1453: 1450: 1447: 1443: 1442:War and Peace 1439: 1436: 1433: 1430: 1426: 1422: 1419: 1415: 1414: 1413: 1412: 1411: 1410: 1404: 1403: 1402: 1401: 1398: 1394: 1390: 1386: 1381: 1378: 1377: 1373: 1372: 1367: 1366: 1360: 1357: 1356: 1355: 1354: 1350: 1345: 1343: 1336: 1332: 1331:War and Peace 1328: 1324: 1320: 1313: 1309: 1305: 1304: 1299: 1296: 1294: 1290: 1286: 1281: 1278: 1276: 1272: 1268: 1262: 1256: 1253: 1252: 1251: 1250: 1246: 1241: 1239: 1232: 1228: 1223: 1219: 1215: 1211: 1207: 1206:Dodge Caravan 1201: 1182: 1178: 1173: 1171: 1164: 1160: 1156: 1151: 1147: 1146: 1145: 1144: 1143: 1142: 1141: 1140: 1139: 1138: 1123: 1118: 1117: 1116: 1115: 1114: 1113: 1112: 1111: 1110: 1109: 1100: 1096: 1091: 1089: 1082: 1081: 1080: 1079: 1078: 1077: 1076: 1075: 1067: 1063: 1059: 1055: 1054: 1053: 1052: 1051: 1050: 1045: 1041: 1036: 1034: 1027: 1023: 1019: 1014: 1013: 1012: 1011: 1005: 1001: 997: 996:User:Regushee 993: 989: 988: 987: 986: 983: 979: 975: 971: 967: 964: 963: 960: 956: 952: 948: 943: 942: 941: 940: 936: 931: 929: 922: 918: 914: 910: 903: 892: 888: 884: 880: 869: 867: 866: 862: 858: 853: 846: 844: 843: 840: 835: 833: 829: 825: 820: 818: 814: 809: 807: 798: 796: 795: 792: 788: 780: 778: 777: 774: 766: 745: 744: 740: 738:into English. 737: 733: 732: 727: 724: 723: 718: 715: 714: 710: 707: 706: 702: 699: 698: 693: 691: 690: 685: 683: 678: 677: 673: 672: 667: 665: 664: 658: 657: 651: 650: 645: 640: 637: 636: 635: 628: 627: 623: 620: 619: 615: 614: 610: 603: 600: 598: 595: 593: 590: 588: 585: 584: 582: 581: 577: 576: 572: 568: 562: 559: 558: 555: 538: 535: 525: 521: 517: 513: 509: 505: 501: 499: 494: 493: 485: 474: 472: 469: 465: 464: 460: 457: 454: 451: 447: 434: 428: 425: 424: 421: 404: 400: 396: 395: 390: 387: 383: 382: 378: 375: 372: 369: 365: 352: 348: 342: 339: 338: 335: 318: 314: 310: 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These are 3335: 3331: 3327: 3289: 3264: 3260: 3258: 3250: 3219: 3207: 3201: 3197: 3195: 3157: 3119:Keep/restore 3118: 3099: 3081: 3044: 2999: 2806: 2802: 2800: 2762: 2758: 2754: 2729: 2725: 2694: 2659: 2655: 2646: 2605: 2601: 2598:Keep/restore 2597: 2561: 2514: 2503: 2422:Good Article 2397: 2375: 2330:AMC Cavalier 2287: 2279: 2249: 2248: 2227: 2226: 2212: 2189: 2149: 2129: 2110: 2103:==Dab tags== 2102: 2101: 2086: 2058: 1997: 1963: 1944: 1940: 1936: 1932: 1928: 1924: 1894: 1873: 1869: 1865: 1861: 1772: 1729: 1661: 1590: 1551: 1485: 1459: 1428: 1424: 1379: 1369: 1363: 1358: 1341: 1326: 1316: 1301: 1297: 1279: 1254: 1237: 1230: 1218:trivial uses 1202: 1198: 1169: 1159:Robert Plant 1149: 1087: 1032: 1026:Dakar Accord 1022:Honda Accord 991: 965: 927: 921:trivial uses 906: 897: 878: 854: 850: 839:Tinkstar1985 836: 824:Datsun Urvan 821: 810: 802: 799:Nissan Urvan 787:Nissan Urvan 784: 770: 741: 729: 720: 719:Create some 711: 703: 695: 687: 682:Vinland Saga 681: 674: 661: 654: 647: 646: 638: 624: 616: 528: 508:project page 496: 490: 484:Japan portal 392: 346: 306: 257: 217: 161:WikiProjects 114: 106:Anchors are 103: 67:Datsun Urvan 65: 44: 36:ja.wikipedia 5151:NealeFamily 5136:NealeFamily 5076:Mr.choppers 5073:Note to all 4877:NealeFamily 4853:NealeFamily 4789:I prefer, " 4777:NealeFamily 4768:WP:Hatnotes 4760:Mr.choppers 4707:NealeFamily 4705:talk page. 4636:NealeFamily 4612:NealeFamily 4404:NealeFamily 4352:Mr.choppers 4263:NealeFamily 4205:NealeFamily 4170:Mr.choppers 3940:NealeFamily 3894:NealeFamily 3859:Mr.choppers 3805:NealeFamily 3669:NealeFamily 3632:NealeFamily 3628:Hello User 3240:Mr.choppers 3004:Mr.choppers 2977:NealeFamily 2813:NealeFamily 2682:NealeFamily 2614:distinguish 2573:WP:Hatnotes 2460:Las Meninas 2000:: It seems 1949:NealeFamily 1899:NealeFamily 1878:NealeFamily 1699:Mr.choppers 1425:misspelling 1214:Distinguish 923:". 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