1410:– The Slate article cited in the first sentence states that STEAM is not just a collection of five fields, but a movement to integrate creative thinking and design skills into STEM education. And this is how much of the article describes it. But the first sentence defines it as a collection of five fields, and the presence of "fields" in the title reinforces that definition. I think the lede would be more consistent with the sources and with the rest of the article if we change the title to something like "STEAM education" or "STEAM movement" or just "STEAM", and change the first sentence to something like:
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me, I must also ask you to not confuse the issue with media conspiracy theories, ad hominem attacks on the STEM community or ad hominem attacks on the entire
Knowledge community. A lack of online sources is an indication, but not proof, that this subject lacks notability. My guess is that this issue will be settle in either direction by hardcopy sources (or the lack thereof).
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on the subject. If you weren't so quick to judge you would be finding this stuff yourself, and you'd know that most of the people in the movement are educators. And what stake do federal congress members have in it? What stake does the co-founder of Apple
Computers have in it? Here's your article for
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it. I've been watching art related articles on wikipedia for a decade now. The pattern is that they are slow to develop because art scholars don't care as much about wikipedia as scientific and technology scholars care about wikipedia. And it's probably because systemic bias makes them feel unwelcome
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which I strongly disagree with. I've been to a dozen STEAM conferences and most of the scholars involved in this movement aren't aware of this article. I've been editing wikipedia for a decade, and it's always been underrepresented in scholarly contributors on art related subjects. Although it's just
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Actually I am drawing on experience from about two dozen AfD discussions about which sources are accepted as verifying GNG. The cbs8 and huffington post articles together with the PBS article did the trick. Thank you for your research effort. Everything else you wrote was just a waste of your and my
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A reliable and secondary source would be an expert of education commenting on the merits of this art campaign, preferably in a major newspaper or a chapter in a book, an expert who is him/herself does not have a stake in the success in said campaign. Beyond delaying tactics and ad hominem attacks on
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As for self-publishing, the policy states "Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established expert on the subject matter, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications." That can be as little as a 3rd party
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If I had seen the STEM article before the subject had achieved GNG, I would have argued for it to be deleted. I have recommended delete for a couple of software articles, FYI. Knowledge simply can't make a new article for every buzz word that some promoter invents. The first order of business before
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No, I'm dead serious. I know the value of music education for developing programming skills. Apple has taught us the importance of good design in our technology. But Art education is not what STEM is about, and until there is wider acceptance of your version of STEAM, this stub should 'cool down'
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Glad we got that settled. Now maybe the contributors of this article won't have their time wasted by having their contributions deleted without researching the notability, and anyone reading this talk page will be more careful with this article. I'm also glad for your own sake that you are aware of
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I found the first three comments funny and the following ones to be not fun and worse: annoying.. but since we are here, I do dare you: make an acronym of (M)edia, (A)rts, (L)iterutarure letter combination that sounds cool. I kind of understand why (A)rts is trying to find it's way into STEM now..
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is concerned, only sources. There's nothing in WP guidelines that say stubs are exempt from notability guidelines. I can see that in your previous comments in this talk page you asked this article to be given more time 2 years ago ... how much more time than 2 years do you think is necessary? Good
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It's a little broader than that topic. I agree that the larger portion of STEAM is focused on K-12 and college education, but a not too small portion is focused on the extra-curricular, careers, corporate training, and the U.S. job economy. The conferences I've attended are actually more political
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It's becoming a very big deal. All K-12 schools in Korea have adopted it. As a founding researcher I have schools in the US adopting it in every state now. It's not STEM, it brings it to the next level - it's whole-person, global, left brain/right brain learning. It should be mentioned in the STEM
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ps: I do realize that collaboration between techies and the fine arts is essential to build something that humans consider appealing, and that many fail to realize this. But I do like to make fun of the phallus wangling and insecurity that is going on between these groups, instead of productive
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page could clearly do with some extension then, the name of the article sets the scope so that would not be a problem. Claiming that it's specific to Visual Arts is a non-argument, because such a thing could easily be fixed. The art community campaign for STEAM clearly originates in and mainly
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Most everything published is published by the "subjects promoter" or else the publisher wouldn't make much money. Most publishers aren't in the business of publishing things that they don't support or care about. And most of the news media is owned by a major for-profit conglomerate who often
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Anyone can read the history and see that work has been done in support of this article in the 2 years since. The movement is growing, not shrinking. There has been comments made both for and against STEAM in this talk page. Seems that some STEM advocates want to make wikipedia
562:. And it is notable. There's lots of news out there on it. It's just that nobody has gotten around to posting any of it in this stub to make it an article yet. It's at the congressional level. There's a bipartisan STEAM caucus. There's at least 3 books in print on the subject.
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You seem to be forgetting that STEAM attempts to do everything that STEM is doing with the added element of art. Art is only 1/5th of STEAM. It's not a good idea to oversimplify STEAM just because you want to see this stub not have it's own page. Nobody tried to merge the
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in the controversy. Just because an article is controversial doesn't mean it's not notable. If anything, controversy tends to make a topic notable. If it wasn't notable, you probably wouldn't have heard about it and you wouldn't even care if this article
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source is one good secondary source, but multiple sources are expected. Please do not confuse the issue with further remarks as to my deletionist stance, my science interest or further delaying tactics. Let's discuss the sources available here and now.
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This doesn't seem notable enough to have it's own article. We could make a minor note on the STEM article that sometimes arts majors add themselves in and alter the acronym, but this isn't notable enough to need its own page. Undue importance.
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I added text this morning the STEAM field article and received a conflict of interest message. This is my first time submitting a
Knowledge entry and would appreciate any feedback on how to edit the entry to make it conform to Knowledge
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BTW, I'm not hunting for sources, because I don't have much time and would rather see what other people find most notable in this movement. But if I had to, I could find 10x the sources in this article. I just don't want to
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concerns the US. Merging there and having this article redirect there would be a good interim solution until GNG has been verified. This article could always be recreated later.
909:. The only real objective fact you seem to be eluding to as evidence in your "not GNG"claim is that STEAM is less popular than STEM. And your claim lacks consensus.
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Perhaps you should read that article before you consider shoving the content in an article where it clearly doesn't fit. That is a big article that says nothing about
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news article quoting the established expert. So yes, if you want to challenge each source and point out the part that is specifically in violation of
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article should be to see if it meets GNG and add verifying references. Now you're making the point that the art domain article structure is a mess.
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Art majors? That's not even what the movement is about. Curriculum is being developed for K-12. Do a little research and give it a little time.
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Again, you are making up policy on the spot with "does not have a stake in the success in said campaign" and "major newspaper." Nothing in
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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I know you are just trying to be funny. But comments like that aren't civil and don't advance any argument. I suggest you read
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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of the sort. That's just your way of trying to keep it subjective instead of facing the facts that sources are out there.
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There doesn't seem to be any opposition to the move proposed and supported by two votes (including the nominator) per
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Ugh, this is pathetic, STEM fields are quantitative and empirical, arts is subjective. Arts have no place in STEM.
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whenever they try to contribute. I'm one of the few humans with the patience to stick it out on planet Vulcan.
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to verify notability. And you are right, I could have made this point more explicit from the start. Imho the
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587:. Delete this STUB and add a minor paragraph in the STEM article, under the heading "bandwagon ideas". --
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topics on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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on
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over it. STEAM is obviously a controversial movement. And your profile and edit history here and
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This article was the subject of a Wiki
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There aren't enough sources to prove notability of this subject ... and without being able to
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My specific criticism is that most of the sources can't verify notability because they are
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STEAM education is more consistent with the Slate article. STEAM has other meanings.
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promotes the work of their authors in "news reports" with disclaimers. Read
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notability of this subject, the subject can't have a standalone article.
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You're the one making it hot. It's just a stub. What are you afraid of?
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I didn't call you ignorant. But your argument had an ignorant premise.
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you "disagreeing" or calling me ignorant doesn't matter as far as
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http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2011/12/01/13steam_ep.h31.html
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tag on the article if you'd like. But at least give it time.
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720:— Preceding
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659:— Preceding
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468:STEAM fields
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348:Mid-priority
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51:WikiProjects
1445:– robertsky
1370:move review
1317:WP:NOTFORUM
1298:WP:NOTFORUM
1088:delitionism
983:This is an
964:verify the
895:Engineering
740:guidelines.
609:and have a
603:Z22's reply
425:Visual arts
416:visual arts
375:Visual arts
323:Mathematics
314:mathematics
270:Mathematics
41:Start-class
1483:Categories
1441:Relisting.
1296:time, see
1106:WP:PRIMARY
993:notability
891:Technology
808:Visual art
679:dialog.
924:creating
124:Education
111:education
70:Education
1146:WP:PROMO
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812:This map
722:unsigned
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630:DeknMike
607:WP:CIVil
589:DeknMike
524:PrimeBOT
1459:Vacosea
1302:AadaamS
1218:AadaamS
1123:AadaamS
1026:AadaamS
970:AadaamS
930:AadaamS
887:Science
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794:AadaamS
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611:WP:NPOV
560:WP:STUB
558:It's a
512:Mdd5397
350:on the
222:Science
213:Science
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1425:design
1379:moved.
1198:WP:OWN
1142:WP:SPS
1110:WP:SPS
1080:WP:JNN
1021:WP:GNG
966:WP:GNG
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897:, or
585:Ranze
545:Ranze
538:Merge
480:moved
466:from
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1463:talk
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883:STEM
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