Talk:Sochi/Archive 1

3106:

instance, within the administrative/geographical/physical boundaries of Adlersky City District lie one settlement okrug (Krasnopolyansky Settlement Okrug) and three rural okrugs. I believe what you're telling me is that the four administrative okrugs do not combine with the "unparished" parts of Adlersky City District as a single entity/government, but this was unimportant to me in this particular instance. I was just interested to see the map of the lower-level administrative divisions, as you say. When I say "within", unless I'm making it clear that I'm talking about it from a local government standpoint, I'm usually talking about it in the physical/geographic sense of the administrative divisions. --

1404:. The population of Sochi proper is 328,809, which is what should be reported in the infobox (all other cities' infoboxes are populated that way; Sochi should be no different). I also restored the 1989 Census figure, which is important for evaluating the most recent population trends and is reported for all other Russian cities as well. Please do not remove this number. Finally, the 329,481 figure was removed because the urban population of the Sochi area is, according to the very site you cited, 332,778; I am not sure where you got 329,481 from. I have restored the correct version again. Please let me know if you have any questions. Cheers, — 1792: 1827:. We have to keep in mind that U.S. readers see images of the U.S. map multiple times every day, in weather reports and in political news coverage and otherwise, and they have it well memorized, but they have much less clue what Europe looks like, really. Like how Europeens see maps of Europe's country outlines every day, too. Those shapes of Federal states within eastern Russia are completely unfamiliar to me, but if i could see some country level shapes then i and many other U.S. readers would grok the situation okay. -- 1234:

though. For these sort of supposed world records there tends to be all sorts of technical and definition issues. Also even ignoring definition issues it's a bit too ORry IMHO for us to mention records we (as editors) happen to notice. After all many cities probably have some quirky statistic you can come up with as a world record. If a reliable source doesn't note the record, then nor should we. That's why IMHO we should only include well sourced record claims. Even better if we can attribute these claims to an entity

2494:

inhabited locality alleviates this somewhat, but it's still pretty bad... Add on top of that the fact that the "city of Sochi" reference in the Charter is actually the municipal formation's full proper name (i.e., it's not the name "Sochi" with a qualifier "city", but the "city of Sochi" as a complete name), and you'll have complete and utter confusion :) I didn't go into such details in my comment above, since they technically have nothing to do with the original question about the area and population.

1662:

this world-level article. Where in the world is it? How is it being discussed as being in the southern part of Russia. If it was just a city of local interest, then a local map is okay, but even that should have some labels! And, in the current map, what are the bodies of water; why few/no labels; and what is that inset map at lower left: is that larger or smaller scale or what? And where is the location of the ski areas, at something Krasnodar, up some river from Sochi? --

1823:

and returned it to show the state-level map (which works fine for U.S. readers like themselves). The state-level map is indeed suitable for many other local historic sites of U.S. or local interest only, but for places of world-class importance a larger perspective map is helpful, IMO. I haven't tried to raise that issue about the more important U.S. historic sites for wide discussion yet among U.S. historic sites editors, but maybe some Europeans could help in a discussion at

2398:

answer my question as to the land area listing in the infobox, though. If Sochi City and Sochi Urban Okrug share the same boundaries, than that means the the area of both would be 3,526 square kilometers and the population 420,589, right? In the case Sochi "proper" would either be the Urban Okrug/City (3,526 square kilometers) or the Tsentralny City District (32 square kilometers), neither of which measures 176.77 square kilometers. Where is that number coming from? (

2553:("municipal districts" and "urban okrugs"); within each municipal district the borders of "urban settlements" and "rural settlements" are shown. If you lay one transparency over another, you'll find that the borders of both upper-level and lower-level administrative and municipal divisions are largely the same but not entirely identical. And if you lay any of the transparencies over the map, you'll be able to see which division any populated place on the map falls into. 668:"inland" area which could certainly include those warmer areas. I could have linked to plenty of weather records for that claim, but at the time I didn't think anyone would be so picky. Anyway, I chose 40 because I am sure that no place north of the Caucasus (at least in Europe) has recorded 44, 48, or 51 degrees Celsius as an official shade temperature, and 40 is a round number, so I didn't feel the need to find the absolute maximum down to the nearest degree. 2434:(see the table on page 3). The 176.77 km figure is the combined area of the four city districts (which constitute the city proper). That figure is used in the infobox to make the population density calculation (which is automatic) consistent—I think you'd agree that dividing the population of the bigger administrative division by the area of city proper (or the population of the city proper by the area of the bigger administrative division) is meaningless. 906: 31: 1302:, where the outdoor competitions will take place, is in 39 km from the coast, however it's located at the altitude of 550 m, so the climate is a bit different there. Furthermore it's surrounded by 2000+ m mountains where it's even cooler (remember Putin saying about 5m-snow cover during the presentation :)). I don't know how it should be incorporated in the article, maybe you could think of something... 3076:, which do show the borders of low-level divisions in dotted lines, but somewhat misleadingly paint both the territory of city district proper and the territories of entities in the city district's jurisdiction in red, as if they were one single entity. In reality, the city district proper is the coastal territory within the area in red, and the remaining dotted areas are rural/settlement okrugs.— 1654: 2613:" (a unit equal in status to that of the administrative districts, but still an entity different from them) within the framework of the administrative-territorial divisions and an "urban okrug" within the framework of the municipal divisions. "Cities" are never a part of administrative districts, nor urban okrugs can ever be a part of municipal districts. A "city district" is a unit into which " 1708:) brings up a zoomable map of the area? That tool should address most of your concerns right there. You can also click on the coordinates and select your favorite map service to study the area further. With this in mind, trying to jam all kinds of maps into one article would be quite redundant, although I agree that a separate map of the Olympics facilities' locations would be most helpful. — 2584:

to know is what the infobox population and land area numbers represent, because they neither seem to represent Sochi's central city district (Tsentralny) nor the administrative district/municipal division that is the City of Sochi. It appears to me that the numbers represent another kind of measurement, maybe of an urbanized area, and not any municipal/local government definition of Sochi.

2792:

municipality. "City/city proper" whether it is capitalized or not, almost always refers to a local government area/jurisdiction in the United States when talking formally, regardless of how small or expansive the jurisdiction of the local goverment is. I think what I understand, now, is that in the United States, what is listed in Sochi's infobox would be spoke of as the "Sochi

1849: 2353:). In some federal subjects the differences are quite major. Regardless of the differences, the administrative and municipal divisions are two different aspects which always need to be covered separately, and since they are not always identical, it's important to keep track for which entity a certain statistic is reported. Does this help?— 2959: 2514:

statistical divison that measures a contiguous urban area as opposed to the "City of Sochi" (upper-case C), which measures the administrative division regardless of urbanization. I guess both figures in the infobox are measuring the statistical, contiguous urbanized area within the different city districts of the City of Sochi. --

2617:" (note the lack of capitalization) are divided, and there is no municipal counterpart to these units. City districts may have other territories in their jurisdiction. Those territories are considered to be in jurisdiction of the city districts, but not a part of them (i.e., they are a part of the "City", but not the "city"). 1434:(copy of the official results of the 1989 Census). As such, the 336,514 figure of the 1989 Census directly corresponds to the 328,809 figure of the 2002 Census, which includes population of the same four city districts. The 332,728 figure of 2002 refers to the population of Sochi proper plus the population of 3072:

handy, sorry. I live in the US, so things like this are not easily accessible to me unless they are available online, and a quick search did not yield any useful results (there are plenty of street maps and krai maps, but none show the borders of the low-level divisions). The best our own WikiCommons can do is

562:

mistake. but lets say they both are and instead lets make up a compleely different number that we like, say 40. yes. good work every one, this enclyclopedia shpould be done in no time at this rate. how many nobel prizes do you think germans would have won? 90? that doesnt sound right. i'm going to make it 8.

2427:

is the major part of the administrative division) is 343,334. Both figures are given in the source to which the population data are referenced. Whenever possible, the infobox gives the population of the territorial entity, not of the administrative division containing it, hence the 343,334 figure is used.

1148:

world. And as I said above, if you count Honolulu, why not also count Tokyo, Omsk, and any other "cities" that have outlying areas listed as their property? But, hey, I dont want to fight, I don't have any personal connection to Sochi or Russia so I'll let someone else revert it again if they want to.

3041:. Within the municipal framework (i.e., in terms of local government), it is simply a part of Sochi Urban Okrug, subject to the urban okrug's administration, although per Sochi's Charter, the local government recognizes the administrative hierarchy and may use it within the framework of its activities.— 3176:

for much more detail on this. Europe and Asia are separated by physical boundaries (seas, mtn. ranges) which is a good thing... If Europe and Asia were to be divided strictly by political lines, what with all the political changes, big areas would be jumping from Europe into Asia and back (making no

2497:

As for the City Head, since inhabited localities do not have such a position, to most readers it is either pretty clear that the position refers to the municipal formation or the distinction is of no significance at all. In the infobox, the field is already under the "Municipal status" header anyway,

1524:

I understand that, but I need something tangible to work with. Are there fields you feel are not necessary? Can something be compacted (if so, how)? Will smaller font be readable? These are the kind of suggestions I am looking for. As you understand, having authored the template, I would tend to

1496:

Feel free to shorten it by restoring the custom location map or by supressing the location map altogether. Any other comments regarding possible improvement of the infobox (or at least regarding how to make it less "ghastly" and more Ghirla-approved) would be very helpful and are also welcome. What

1169:

Actually, I'm removing one of the sources, since I checked it out and found factual errors on it. Personally, I don't think the other source is reliable either ... you probably won't find one that's not in Russian ... but I don't really think a reference is needed for something this trivial anyway.

337:

I just found this discussion now. I deleted the reference to Honolulu and just said that Sochi is "the longest contiguous city" in the world ... my reasoning is that we know that there are at least two of these non-connected wormhole-like cities, and there may be many more. I think that it would be

297:

Honolulu. It's a unified city-county, and the county of Honolulu includes the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands, making the unified city-county - and therefore, the city - about a thousand miles long. However, this is kind of obscure trivia. Tokyo would also be a contender, because the island of Iwo Jima

2791:

Just as an extreme example, if you go look at the population and land area figures for the city of Anchorage, Alaska, USA, you will see that the primary figures correspond to the entire municipal jurisdiction, with the "settlement/urbanized area" for the "city" of Anchorage listed below those of the

2587:

I guess what I'm getting as is that this sentence "The 176.77 km2 figure is the combined area of the four city districts" simply can't be true. The four city district of Sochi cover a very large area. Perhaps you mean that figure is the combined area of the contiguous urbanized portions WITHIN the

2426:

proper (and that includes all four city districts, but not other localities in jurisdiction). The population of the City of Sochi (the administrative division), as well as of Sochi Urban Okrug (which has identical borders) is 420,589. The population of the city of Sochi (the territorial entity which

2218:

i can understand some disagreement over the "o" -- which the linked discussion is consumed with -- but how about that "sh" vs "ch"? no, i don't expect russian or any other language to match up phonetically to english, but if russian "ch" is closer to english "sh" than to "ch", you'd think we'd have

1744:

Ah, the inset map at lower left is a map of Russia? Funny, it doesn't look like that, given that it places an island way out at sea.... Yes, i understand that Russia does have a separated piece and the Russia map is not incorrect. My point is that the map is LOUSY for communicating to world-wide

1661:

Multiple maps are needed for this article, for the many readers like me visiting to find out about this Winter Olympics site city. A much larger scale map showing all of southern russia, all of georgia, even all of Turkey so that the Mediterranean Sea's outline can be seen, would be appropriate for

1571:

The number in the first column is not the city population; it is the total population of the city plus all the places (both urban and rural) in its jurisdiction, so, obviously, it would be higher than just "urban population", which is the combined population of the city proper plus that of the urban

599:

Having been born in Primorsko-Akhtarsk, which is further north, on the coast of the Sea of Azov which is connected to the Black Sea in the north where temperatures have reached around 45°C, I don't find the claim particularly hard to believe. Just compare with, for instance, Bucharesti, in which the

2583:

My only understanding, thus far, is that in Sochi, the administrative district and municipal district are merged, that they are one-and-the-same. It also seems that there is AT LEAST one other layer of local government below this merged government in Sochi and that is city districts. All I'd like

2579:

Not really. In America, I believe it's rather simple. With but a few exceptions, you have the national government, state government, and administrative counties. Within administrative counties, you can have cities (sometimes villages) and statutory townships/towns. In a few rare cases, you have

2556:

Using the US divisions as examples, counties will correspond to Krasnodar Krai's administrative districts. "Cities", since they are administrative divisions with the status equal to that of the administrative districts, can also be equated to US counties (although, as far as I know, the US does not

1136:

call it the longest city in Europe. They don't however consider it the longest city in the world as Honolulu is the longest city for them (not that this matters since if they don't call it the longest city in the world, nor can we). So far, there is no reliable source that calls it the longest city

456:

The statement, which is now "At 145 kilometers (90 mi), Greater Sochi claims to be the longest city in Europe", requires explanation. The reference for it now points to a bogus GoDaddy site. Putting a ruler against a Google Maps display, I measure about 4 miles from the mouth of Sochi River to M27,

3071:

City districts do not have divisions :) The rural and settlements okrugs are considered to be in jurisdiction of the city districts, but are not a part of them (in other words, there is no one term that describes a city district proper+entities subordinated to it). As for the map, I don't have one

2903:

BTW, thank you for going through all of this work. I am only trying to figure this out because I am genuinely curious about how other countries define their cities. This has been a really interesting discussion, though, it was frustrating, at times, for things to be "lost in translation" as they

2737:

Well, that's EXACTLY what I'm talking about. The "territory in jurisdiction of the city districts," whether it is urban or not. So, I was correct in stating that the smaller number is a statistical mearusement of built-up area as opposed to a measurement of local government. This is quite a bit

2528:

I feel that confusing you is largely my fault; I shouldn't have gone into unnecessary details in my post above. If you don't mind, let me try explaining once again. I hope I can properly use the US counties and cities as examples, but I'm afraid I'm neither terribly knowledgeable about how exactly

2142:

I don't know why other commentators on this page think that the pronunciation is so obvious. I've heard it called "sɔtʃɪ" (as in watch), "sɔxɪ" (as in loch), and "sɔʃɪ" (as in wash) and here on this page, it seems that it's pronounced "sotsi". As most people don't know what sounds make up Russian,

1822:

article. That's a reasonably important historic site in the U.S., that many people from outside the U.S. visit on-line or even in person, so in that article it would be relatively more important to show the location within a U.S.-level map. Other U.S.-based editor(s) there have disagreed with me

573:

The temperature and climate values need better and more easily verifiable sources. Throughout the article its described as a "subtropical" summer holiday destination. It may well be a very popular summer destination, but I don't see how it could be a "subtropical" winter olympics. Temperate maybe,

1418:

OK. But are you sure that 336.514 is only urban population? Where you got this data from? It was total population of the city in 1989 up to 397.103 in 2002. By the way do you ever interest, that Sochi's urban population for 4 years (from 2002 to 2006) up from 328.809 to 329.481 - for the last 20

1233:

There's nothing wrong with a Russian (or other foreign language) reliable source (wikipedia policy is quite clear that while English is prefered, foreign language is fine in absense of that). For something like this, even the cities' official website would be fine. I disagree it's a simple matter

3056:

Thanks! I do remember seeing Krasnaya Polyana during the mountains events in the Olympics. BTW, I do believe I'm finally understanding this. One more question, is there a map available showing all of the administrative divisions of the City of Sochi (i.e. first the city districts and then the

2397:

I think I get it, now. It sounds like Urban Okrug, in this case, would be something equivalent to a "county", over here, and a "city" would be municipal corporation within an Urban Okrug, except in this case, Sochi City and Urban Okrug are coterminous. So, I think I got that. It still doesn't

2341:

purposes of local self-government (including, but not limited to local roads maintenance, trash removal, etc.). The borders of administrative and municipal divisions are often identical (as is the case with the City of Sochi and Sochi Urban Okrug), but not always: in Krasnodar Krai, for example,

1810:

within it (at right) would help, showing water areas in blue and giving enough so that Russia is clearly recognizable. I still think a map centered more on Sochi but at a largish scale, showing some of Russia, all of Turkey, some of the Mediterranean, would help most in situating Sochi for many

1147:

This was already discussed earlier in this talk page. I assumed the consensus reached then would be still a consensus today so I reverted it and deleted the source, my reasoning being that it's pretty much undisputed that the city is 145 km long, and that it's the longest contiguous city in the

2513:

Unfortunately, I fear that you have confused me more than before. I guess unless it's explained to me in a way to compare it with American "counties" and "cities", I'll probably not ever get this. The only thing I can wrap my head around is that perhaps the "city of Sochi" (lower-case C) is a

2493:

Yeah, that the term "city" has multiple meanings (even in the official documents—and Krasnodar Krai's laws are especially muddy about the distinction) complicates things considerably. Capitalizing "City" when referring to the administrative division and not capitalizing it when referring to the

1745:

encyclopedia readers. That inset map, or a larger version, should show some bodies of water and perhaps have a label or two and should in general be more recognizable for what it is. Improving the inset map, or removing it and replacing it by a larger separate map, would address my concern. --

667:

I know this is a moot point now, but I want to add two more things: no, 112F is not 48C; it's roughly 44. Also, the reason why I figured 40C would be okay is because other cities nearby have had 40C, even if Sochi itself hasn't, and the article as it was worded than was including an indefinite

2340:

A short (an an extremely oversimplified) answer is that the administrative-territorial divisions are the divisions used for the purposes of the federal and krai governments (including, but not limited to pensions, police, mail, etc.) while the municipal divisions are the divisions used for the

561:

huh? you can't just make up another number because you find it more believable. thats crazy. 50C is not impossible even if it is unlikely. maybe it is wrong but you cant just make it up! 112F is 48C which i dont find that unbelievable. the original author said 51C/112F so one of them must be a

550:

I find the claim of 51°C in Russia hard to believe. 112°F is somewhat more believable, but it is also the wrong conversion value for 51°C. Not knowing what the original author meant, I am cutting it down to 40°C, which is still higher than the highest temperature recorded in Sochi, but would

3105:

I think you may be getting too caught up in the specific terms I use. When I talk about city district administrative divisons, all I was talking about were that there are rural okrugs (and one settlement okrug) within the administrative/geographic/physical boundaries of a city district. For

2560:

Upper-level municipal divisions (municipal districts and urban okrugs), I think, also do not have a US counterpart (unless there are states where the immediate local government operates on the same level as the county government yet is not a part of it). Lower-level municipal divisions (urban

2222:

yes, we yanks are notorious for butchering foreign pronunciations (e.g. kyoto and myanmar with 3 syllables), but faced with a transliteration like "sochi", reporters with no knowledge of russian whatsoever are suddenly defaulting to "soshi" (be it soe-shi, suh-shi, or saw-shi). why on earth?

2307:

Thanks for that, but is there a way you could explain the difference in a few sentences? I've read the pages for both of these type of divisons and administrations and still can't figure out what each measures. In the United States where I live, a municipal division is the same thing as an

457:

and not quite 2 miles more to the northern limit of the dashed lines surrounding the city. A city can claim whatever it wants, but we should at least explain where the northernmost extent of this "Greater Sochi" is, and why the disparate towns within these borders are said to be part of it.

2249:

I'm confused. The population and area listed in the infobox seem to be neither for the entire four-district City of Sochi/Sochi Urban Okrug, nor for the central city district (Tsentralny City District). So, what exactly is the 343,334 residents within the 176.77 km2 measuring? Is this a

1429:

Yes, 336,514 was urban population only. Sochi proper (i.e., the city itself, without any inhabited localities which are under its jurisdiction but are not a part of the city itself) comprised four city districts in 1989: Adlersky, Khostinsky, Lazarevsky, and Tsentralny. If you add up the

185:

Kober, beauty of encyclopedia is that anyone interested can click on link and read in details what abkhazia and its status are. Your inserts in each and every article claims that abhazia is part of georgia will not help. For now i'm just asking - don't put f.ing politics in this article.

2532:

Imagine a blank contour map of Krasnodar Krai which only shows the krai's outside borders. Imagine all populated places on that map shown as dots. Now imagine you have two transparencies shaped like Krasnodar Krai. The first transparency shows the borders of the administrative divisions

2146:

Apart from all this, just because a name is pronounced one way in the local language, it doesn't follow that, even given the same name in another, that the pronunciation is the same. Paris, isn't pronounced "Parrí" in English, Seville isn't pronounced "Sevilla", nor spelt the same

2849:

The 177.77 square kilometer number does not measure a local government jurisdiction as I originally thought it did. The figures in the infobox are measuring a "city" in the sense of a "built-up area/urbanized area/statistical settlement/locality" and not "City" in the sense of a

1271:

and repeatedly mentions this warm climate. Given this, I would like to see something in this article regarding how Sochi is proposing to deal with the Winter Olympics. The other cities chosen for Winter Olympics since 1924 all seem to have a markedly colder winter climate (like

2413:

They are coterminous alright, but are still separate, unrelated entities (i.e., the City of Sochi is not technically "within" the urban okrug; perhaps it would help if you think of the administrative and municipal divisions as two independent layers over the territory of the

1723:

Couldn't agree more with Ezhiki. The idea is the map displays where it is regionally and the map in the corner of it where in Russia it is. All you have to do is click the globe to see location continentally and globally. That's what it is for. Your proposal is redundant.

2250:

measurement of the physical, contiguous urbanized area, only, regardless of city district boundaries? Are the current listings in the infobox consistent with how populations and land areas listed for other Russian "cities"? Perhaps, this needs to be made more clear. --

1249:

BTW, I would agree neither source is particularly good and would be fine with removal of both claims from both articles. The Guinness World Record claim for Honolulu appears to be bogus and is not even supported by the source so I removed it but left the record claim.

1857:

I just added map at right to the article, at the very top. It is more important than the article's infobox. It is more important than any map currently in the infobox. Where in the world is Sochi, is the most important question that this article should address.

2150:

It would help if someone could find out the official name in English and put up the standard, if not correct, pronunciation. That said, if people really want to know the pronunciation they can do like I did and click on the Russian pronunciation. Jayjase

2417:

As for the population/area confusion, here's another interesting bit to wrap your head around :) What the article calls the "City of Sochi" (note how "City" is capitalized) is the administrative division which in Krasnodar Krai happens to be called a

1960:. The edit doesn't say "is in Asia". However, excluding "some sources say Asia" from the Sochi article is not an option unless you can change the consensus on all those other WP articles (you won't) and can get National Geographic, Websters, other 3171:

Not bizarre if you had looked at the two very reliable sources for this statement, National Geographic (p. 59 in their 2014 10th Edition atlas) and Websters, both of which have maps showing Sochi in SW Asia. The Caucasus Mtns. are the divide...see

1983:

When one checks weather in Google Maps it's striking how winter temperatures just a little bit North from Sochi are always very low instead of dropping gradually over vast area. Is it because of the mountains that the climate of sochi is so mild?

2738:

different than here in America where a "city" almost always refers to a local government jurisdiction/municipal division regardless of whether or not the built-up area fills the boundaries of the local government jurisdiction/municipal division.

2452:

P.S. I think much of the confusion was due to the fact that the article interchangeably defines "Sochi proper" as either Tsentralny City District or as the combination of all four city districts. I've made a few tweaks to hopefully clear that

202:

If you want to avoid politics you should simply write "Russian border with Georgia" as the world doesn't know the international border between Russia and Abkhazia. Please restore the data or we will have to mark the section as disputed

1943:

watershed as the Europe Asia divide. (When you are in Sochi, you are on the Black Sea, looking up at the southern (Asian) side of the main Caucasus range.) This Caucasus definition of the past century or so is also what has become

1844:

Years later, back to address the same problem: the article, now viewed frequently, lacks a decent map showing Sochi within a labelled, large-scale map showing full Black Sea and/or other shapes recognizable to world-wide readers.

421:, as well as the rest of the city districts, are parts of Sochi not much different from (historical) "Sochi proper". There just is no reason to consider Adler et al. separately from Sochi, because they are no longer separate. What 1127:

As I've already tried to explain to the user who keeps adding this detail, it doesn't matter what you regard. It is OR to say there is no longer city so it must be the longest city in the world. As with ALL matters on wikipedia,

3005:

mentioned in the article, and is it an administrative division of one of the city districts with its own local council (subordinate to the city district council, of course), or is is simply locality without a local council?

1914:

Surprisingly, A large number, perhaps majority, of sources place Sochi in Asia. While "Sochi is in Asia" wording is not appropriate, the well-sourced inclusion of this view is quite appropriate and I will include that as a

3021:

Sorry, I meant to post a reply to your above post and forgot. But if you think it's all cleared up and out of the way, perhaps there's no longer a need. But please do let me know if there is still anything there that needs

2479:ы и т.п.. А "город" (если он не федерального значения) - это в большой степени просто адрес. Кстати, по тому же уставу "Наименования "муниципальное образование город-курорт Сочи" и "город Сочи" равнозначны". Всё сложно. -- 2529:

those work (not to mention that they work differently in different states) nor sure it would be a good analogy since Russian divisions have unique qualities not found in other countries. I'll try to do my best, though.

2957:

EDIT: Actually, I see that the Russian version of Knowledge actually does make the difference between the contiguous, built up settlement that is "Sochi" and the "City of Sochi/Sochi Urban Okrug" as this page exists

1772: 2850:"municipality/district/local government jurisdiction". This makes sense to me, now, and was really all I was asking. Other country's wiki pages also use the "city" defintion as opposed to the "City" definition. 228:

There's no Abkhazia on the World Map. Exactly guys who add "border of Abkhazia" are trying to involve us into politics. These are russian State authorities watchdogs, who take their salaries to watch Knowledge.

3120:

Got it. I tend to overexplain things, as you may have noticed :) Anyway, if I happen to stumble upon a decent map showing the borders of the lower-level divisions, I'll make sure to share it with you. Cheers,—

1081:

Frankly, as annoying as it may be, I also find this edit war amusing. Sorry to disappoint the vandals but changing what it says on wikipedia is not actually going to change who has jurisdiction over the city.

1027:

Note that sister cities/twin towns can change. A good source for this information might be the Sochi local government body website. I presume it's in Russian so whoever can understand that should check it out

1852:

Black Sea map with recognizable country outlines, with labels for "Sochi", "Black Sea" and "Sea of Azov" showing Turkey, Georgia, Russia, Ukraine, other countries. Could be better if Sochi were labelled more

1209:

Everything in the Knowledge should be verifiable. Lots of things in Knowledge articles are stated without giving a source, true, but at the latest as soon as something stated as a fact is questioned, it

106:

The caption under the photo of the black sea claims it was taken in 1915. Although I am aware colour photography was first used in 1896, it wasn't until the 40s that someone could take a picture like

1614:

In the box on the side, it lists one population figure (presumably from the 2002 census) while the population progression box lists 2 other population amounts for that same period. Which is correct?

2326:

can describe it better that I can, but if he does not show up I will give it a try. In the case of Sochi, the administrative and municipal units are the same, so that they have the same population.--

748:

Both IPA and transliteration would be useful, if you could add them. I am, unfortunately, not that proficient in IPA, and I do not know the transliteration rules for languages other than Russian. —

730:

The name of the city in languages other than Russian should go to history section and not into the intro. It's neither official nor spoken by any significant amount of the city's population afaik.

2279:

Are not the Sochi Urban Okrug and the City of Sochi the same thing? Or, is the former a statistical division while the latter is an administrative division? I'm still not understanding this. --

2602:

Yes, in the US it is indeed a lot simpler. Like I previously said, the administrative/municipal duality is something very unique to Russia, which makes it so difficult to find a working analogy.

2018:

does ask that English language sources are used so that English-only speakers can assess the cites. Please explain the situation and the reasons you wish to make climate edits. Thanks very much

1008:

The list of all of the 'twin towns' for this city is unsourced, that is why I removed it and replaced it with the sourced information that has only Long Beach, which is sourced. If you can find

175:

Abkhazia being de jure part of Georgia is not only history but the internationally recognized fact. My wording was neutral enough... I'll restore this phrase and please don't revert it again. --

1203:

The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. Material that is challenged or likely to be challenged needs a reliable source, which should be cited in the article.

3029:(where the Olympics took place). It is administratively a part of Krasnopolyansky Settlement Okrug (which also includes four rural localities); the settlement okrug is in turn subordinated to 1482:

The good thing is that, after 9 months after my expansion, the page has undergone no substantial alterations. The bad thing is that a ghastly template keeps getting ever longer, courtesy of

2170: 110:. Is this just a typo? was it 1951, not 1915? has the photo been colourised? I don't want to change it, but it would be fascinating if colour photo technology was that advanced in 1915. 1636:

I wish people were more careful when updating data... The 328,809 is the number reported by the 2002 Census. I made a correction to the infobox accordingly. Thanks for catching this! —

3001:

BTW, now that we have all of that out of the way, out of genuine curiosity, within the City of Sochi along with the city proper and the 79 rural localities, what is the name of the one

1511:

The template for Russian cities looks longer than those for most other cities, doesn't it? These pesky templates have a nasty propensity of getting ever longer. As the edit history of

2962:, along with the regular settlement (or what you refer to as the "city proper") page. What's the English translation/transliteration of Муниципальное образование город-курорт Сочи? -- 2265:

Both area and population are given for Sochi Urban Okrug, and both are referenced. The way population area are indicated is consistent with all other articles on Russian localities.--

1497:

is not helpful is whining in passing. You know pretty damn well that I am not a great fan of these infoboxes myself and what specific reasons for creating this particular one were. —

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of those city districts that is much larger (and includes a lot of non-urbanized/empty land). The territory in jurisdiction of Sochi's city districts is actually incorporated as

2620:

Which brings me to this. The combined territory of the four city districts (city districts proper, which constitute the city proper) is indeed 176.77 km. It is the territory

1549:

should not be smaller than the city population. i think it probably means in the surrounding area, in which case it should be a sum of the city population and the urban.

617:

45C in Bucharest? I don't believe that. That's more than 5C above the previous record. Things like that just dont happen. I'd like to see an official weather report.

1430:

populations of each of those city districts as reported by the 1989 Census, you'll get 336,514—same number reported for the city as a whole. The breakdown is available

1964:

sources to change their maps (you won't.) The entire "longest city" part is geographic trivia that belongs in the Geography section of this article, not the lead.

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the inhabited localities under its jurisdiction did indeed go up between the Censuses, the population of Sochi proper went down from 336,514 to 332,728. Since the

1572:

localities in its jurisdiction. This is also why this number is higher than the number shown in the infobox (which is the population of the city and city only). —

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Bizarre statement: "if one uses the Caucasus Mountains as the divide, Sochi is in Southwest Asia, falling on the southern (Asian) side of the Greater Caucasus."

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article is about the city proper, and not about every inhabited locality in its vicinity, we report only the population numbers for the city proper. Best, —

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since it gets below the 22°C July isotherm before it gets to the 0°C January isotherm - a rare quirk due to elevation) and then a humid continental climate (

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Adlersky City District (CD)+Khostinsky CD+Lazarevsky CD+Tsentralny CD="city of Sochi" (inhabited locality, a territorial unit with an area of 176.77 km)

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Sochi itself is on the shore of the Black see and indeed has a subtropical climate. However almost immediately next to it there are Caucasus mountains.

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within the municipal framework, the whole territory of the "City of Sochi" is incorporated as "Sochi Urban Okrug" (which has no lower-level divisions).

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Sochi has a humid subtropical climate; with winter temperatures rarely falling much below freezing and with the average winter temperature of +6 °C

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under jurisdiction of those city districts, but since they are not located in between the city districts borders, the city of Sochi is contiguous.—

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temperature almost reached 45°C during the heatwave last month. The climate in southern Russia varies greatly with cold winters and warm summers.

2121:

about half of the reporters (US at least) are pronouncing this "soshi"...including one in the field today actually discussing the pronunciation!

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https://web.archive.org/20120303093135/http://www.elysee.fr/elysee/elysee.fr/ressources_documentaires/europe_non-ue/russie/sotchi-2002.9189.html

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consolidated city-county governments. There is no other municipal/administrative divsion/local government below cities or village governments.

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have this exact concept). Lower-level administrative divisions ("Towns", "settlement okrugs", and "rural okrugs") do not have a US counterpart.

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The population of Sochi in its administrative boundaries by Census,2002 is 397.103 inhabitants. See Census results in Russian on Official site

2472:является главой именно мунициального образования ("Глава города Сочи - высшее должностное лицо муниципального образования город-курорт Сочи" 867: 3243: 3034: 2610: 2534: 2419: 2224: 2128: 1895: 1621: 1556: 518: 121: 2088: 581: 236: 2152: 1991: 1957: 842: 382: 263: 3177:

sense) from one decade to the next. The 2800 to 3000 meter Caucasus peaks just northeast of Sochi separate it from European Russia.

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what am i missing? is russian "ch" actually closer to english "sh"? do they know something about french influence that i don't?

1113:

Shouldn't the "main article" link now go to the olympics 2014 article rather than to the bids article now that sochi have won it?

1400:

Hi, Yufereff! Thank you for your concern, but note that the 397,103 figure refers not to Sochi proper, but to the city of Sochi

1322:

22°C, sufficient summer precipitation) - a rarity for that latitude. It quickly drops off to an "oceanic" climate (as it becomes

2219:

noticed 100 years ago. i don't hear people saying "anton shekov", for example. "shaikovsky"? nope. "sheshniya"? never once.

2127:

of all the non-english names to butcher, why is everyone having such a hard time with THIS one?! this should be a no-brainer.

2014:

is given as the source before and after the changes. Was there an error? Was the information on the pogodo page changed? Also

1450:

rural) under jurisdiction of Sochi (397,103=328,809+3,969+64,325). So, the bottom line is that while the population of Sochi

351:

This is wrong. Greater Sochi is not a contiguous city. It consists of Adler, Sochi proper, Dagomys etc. As a contiguous city,

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https://web.archive.org/20140104023836/http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/09/13/sports/EU_SPT_OLY_2014_Sochi_Environment.php

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However, since Tokyo-to is so long, and could be considered a city, that would make it 2nd longest - requiring a citation. --

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This looks like it was written by a Tourism Sochi publicist. Can someone with more expertise than myself give an opinion?

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nice to mention the wormhole cities in a trivia section perhaps, and if we do I think we should also mention the case of

2666:"city of Sochi"+one settlement okrug+eleven rural okrugs="City of Sochi" (administrative unit, with an area of 3,526 km) 2084: 2077: 299: 160: 212:

Who cares about what knows world. Don't try to divert discussion. It's you who are trying to insert POV statement. --

2437:

I hope I haven't totally confused you with this explanation! Please let me know if anything remains unclear. Cheers,—

998:

Could anybody investigate the matter? I presume the Sister Cities International lists only U.S. sister cities, no? --

2187:

My Oxford Dictionary of English (2nd ed., revised, electronic version), which seems to be more or less the same as

1361:

The 3 are in Sotchi right now for energy talks. Not sure it's worth mentionning, and no time right now. reference:

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administrative division. What does an Okrug measure/describe, and what does a city measure/describe in Russia? --

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

1525:

overlook a possibility for improvement that might be perfectly obvious to an observer such as yourself. Best, —

1442:(332,728=328,809+3,969), and the 397,103 figure refers to the population of Sochi proper plus the population of 1362: 2561:

settlements and rural settlements) correspond to the US local government units (cities, towns, villages, etc.).

1791: 1625: 871: 462: 143:"most popular" Russian resort towns? "Spectacular views?" I think these are peacock terms and violates NPOV. 2228: 2132: 1899: 1560: 522: 585: 396:

I'll defer to you on that since I know little about Russia other than random trivia and climate information.

2156: 1995: 1726: 1196: 1129: 386: 240: 155: 2609:, that's totally incorrect (sorry!). Sochi is neither an administrative nor a municipal district; it is a " 1098: 3030: 2550: 2010:

I have reverted all recent changes back to 8 March 2012. I am unclear why the data needed changing, given

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Sochi city incldues 4 intraurban regions : Adler region, Lazarevsky region, Khosta region, Central region.

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http://www.elysee.fr/elysee/elysee.fr/ressources_documentaires/europe_non-ue/russie/sotchi-2002.9189.html

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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for the other cities in some way, then feel free to add the rest. But remember, all information must be

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in Sochi, the administrative district and municipal district are merged, that they are one-and-the-same

815: 283:"At 147 km, Greater Sochi is the second longest city in the world." And the longest would be... ? -- 3152: 3107: 3073: 3058: 3007: 2963: 2589: 2515: 2399: 2309: 2280: 2251: 2178: 2100: 1987: 1916: 1891: 1815: 1617: 1596: 1552: 1515:

shows, they tend to oust vital illustrative material from the page. That's what my gripe is about. --

889:

Currently, there are two conflicting sets of information which replace each other from time to time:

863: 838: 577: 514: 484:. I added it in the begining of the article. Hope, this is the right place and useful information. -- 378: 259: 232: 2484: 2331: 2298: 2270: 2062: 1945: 1824: 458: 2476: 2024: 1420: 1390: 1017: 792: 713: 3282:

before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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four city districts, but the actual city districts include a lot of non-urbanized/empty land. --

2293:

The Sochi Urban Okrug is municipal division, and the City of Sochi is administrative division.--

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before bolshevicks Georgia was a part of Russian Empire. Russia never conquered this country.

835:

Yes, it's a georgian name (sochi means fir tree in Georgian) and used to be a part of Georgia

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Do you think we should use transliteration or IPA for the three names in the history section?

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years it never fall down. This figure was got from postcensus Russian statistics in paper, —

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article. These are international issues, it doesn't belong in this article about the city.

1057:

This section does not seem to have been written with NPoV. None of the claims are sourced.

697:

Please, chekck the "Adyghe" spelling, placed at the top. It is actually Abkhaz, as it uses

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If you want people to listen to you, kindly follow normal practice and post to the bottom

485: 144: 2473: 3264:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 2480: 2327: 2294: 2266: 2191:, gives . This does not, of course, mean that it's the only acceptable pronunciation. — 1807: 1806:

Thanks, yes, something like that would be better. Like the full map of Russia showing

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

3234:

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/09/13/sports/EU_SPT_OLY_2014_Sochi_Environment.php

2422:". The "city of Sochi" (with "city" not capitalized) refers to the territory of the 2020: 1331: 1058: 905: 894: 785: 706: 1592:

Vladimir Afanasenkov retired after health issues. Jambulat Khautov is acting mayor.

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Oh wait, you said "almost" and "around". Every statistician's favorite words. lol

2796:", as it crosses/spans multiple local government area jurisdictions/municipalities. 1961: 1920: 1859: 1828: 1746: 1663: 1512: 1348: 1303: 763: 734: 2171:

Knowledge:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2014 January 4#Pronunciation of "Sochi"

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localities under jurisdiction of the city (which is the urban-type settlement of

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

2345:

comprises the territories of two administrative-territorial divisions (Town of

2092: 3270:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 1043: 971: 947: 352: 204: 176: 47: 17: 2011: 1695: 1682: 784:

section of template. If someone will be oppose, let me know before remove. --

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people, not by Georgians, although I suppose their languages are related. --

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is part of Tokyo-to, and is about 800 miles from Tokyo proper. According to

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Adlersky CD has one settlement okrug and three rural okrugs in jurisdiction

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etc.), thus making them seem far more suited for winter sports than Sochi.

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with the inhabited localities under the city's administrative jurisdiction

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Seriously people, cut it out. I'm about ready to protect this article. --

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What is this idiotism with georgian names and territories? Remove this.

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probably occur in areas not on the water and closer to the Middle East.

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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add

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About the origin of the name of the city: Georgians named it as Sochi (

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Definitely not in the lead. Furthermore, the Sochi River was named by

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You do know that clicking on the globe icon next to the coordinates (

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I'm not surprised that there's confusion as to how it's pronounced.

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in the world and unless one can be found, this needs to be removed

3224:

to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

3201: 3038: 2549:" are also shown. The other transparency shows the borders of the 2346: 1847: 1790: 1652: 1455: 965: 481: 372: 417:

Sochi actually comprises its city districts, so administratively

1935:. A vast majority of relevant sources agree, when defining the 339: 2169:

A discussion about the pronunciation of "Sochi" is archived at

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and National Geographic atlas (current edition), both of which

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news,photo and anather infomatiom about city of resort sochi

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Thanks. I added that tidbit of information to the article.--

25: 1040:

http://www.sochi-international.ru/pages.php?id=2&lang=eng

3249:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the

1818:, :) , there's a similar situation with the map included in 1093:

Plz, protect it, no sense in editing it over and over again

2498:

so any further clarification would probably be redundant.—

2042:

This section seems to have been copied wholesale from the

1132:

not truth is the core here. It's verifiable that several

2537:"); within each administrative district the borders of " 533:

Adyghe and Georgian have not been proven to be related.

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I have just added archive links to 2 external links on

2628:, which can never be a part of a city district proper. 2044:

Concerns and controversies at the 2014 Winter Olympics

302:, Guinness has recognized Honolulu as the longest. -- 2475:) и именно муниципальным властям подчиняются разные 1885: 1214:

be removed if there is no reliable source. Ideally,

256:Abkhazia which is known in history also as Egrisi, 3274:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 3057:

administrative divisions of the city districts)? --

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designated by the Sister Cities International, Inc.

2658:Lazarevsky CD has six rural okrugs in jurisdiction 2655:Khostinsky CD has two rural okrugs in jurisdiction 1919:fact. Note especially that I included two strong 1316:Indeed, those numbers mean it indeed falls in the 2661:Tsentralny CD has no rural okrugs in jurisdiction 1387:http://www.perepis2002.ru/ct/html/TOM_01_04_3.htm 1320:humid subtropical category (January average : --> 2468:Наверное, ещё для понимания надо отметить, что 1820:Martin Luther King, Jr., National Historic Site 3260:This message was posted before February 2018. 2960:ru:Муниципальное образование город-курорт Сочи 3122:Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) 3078:Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) 3043:Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) 2676:Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) 2633:Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) 2566:Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) 2500:Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) 2455:Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) 2439:Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) 2355:Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) 2193:Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) 1781:Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) 1762:Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) 1710:Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) 1638:Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) 1574:Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) 1527:Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) 1499:Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) 1460:Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) 1406:Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) 750:Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) 431:Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) 8: 1218:should be added without stating the source. 1939:, also using, as these two sources do, the 1811:world-wide readers, including U.S. readers. 3150: 2087:. Table can be copied from the article of 1330:) farther up where the events take place. 3025:The urban-type settlement in question is 1925:Merriam-Webster's Geographical Dictionary 425:separate is the inhabited localities and 375:- statute of Sochi City (article 4. p.2) 511:by Adyghe? hm... where are the sources? 1948:in a half dozen other articles such as 1771:Speaking of inset maps, would one like 2380:folded part of this lengthy discussion 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 84:what particularly don't you like? -- 7: 2245:Population & Area in the infobox 1929:actually draw a "Europe - Asia" line 122:Sergei Mikhailovich Prokudin-Gorskii 2564:Does all this make it any clearer?— 2089:List of tallest buildings in Lisbon 1378:The following is a cross-post from 2085:List of tallest buildings in Sochi 2078:List of tallest buildings in Sochi 1958:List of transcontinental countries 1373:Recent edits of population figures 24: 3204:. Please take a moment to review 2533:("administrative districts" and " 1979:What milds the climate of Sochi? 904: 29: 2646:P.S. Here's the tldr; version: 2631:Still clear as mud? :) Cheers,— 1933:Sochi clearly on the Asian side 1263:Climate and the Winter Olympics 1172: 1150: 670: 640: 619: 398: 373:http://sochi.org.ru/ustav.shtml 2605:Regarding your statement that 1910:Longest city in "Europe" again 1814:Speaking of places in or near 1787:); March 17, 2010; 15:54 (UTC) 1768:); March 17, 2010; 15:51 (UTC) 1368:19:41, 24 September 2007 (UTC) 1347:How about before 6th century? 439:16:01, 26 September 2007 (UTC) 391:06:05, 26 September 2007 (UTC) 154: 1: 3165:12:59, 15 February 2015 (UTC) 2972:05:49, 22 February 2014 (UTC) 2598:13:35, 21 February 2014 (UTC) 2524:04:17, 20 February 2014 (UTC) 2489:18:35, 19 February 2014 (UTC) 2408:15:10, 19 February 2014 (UTC) 2336:13:17, 19 February 2014 (UTC) 2318:10:01, 19 February 2014 (UTC) 2303:07:36, 19 February 2014 (UTC) 2289:07:06, 19 February 2014 (UTC) 2275:07:44, 18 February 2014 (UTC) 2260:05:11, 18 February 2014 (UTC) 2095:. Data about skyscrapers are 1954:Boundaries between continents 1716:); March 3, 2010; 15:08 (UTC) 1644:); March 1, 2010; 14:49 (UTC) 1630:23:18, 26 February 2010 (UTC) 1468:16:20, 24 November 2007 (UTC) 1425:09:56, 23 November 2007 (UTC) 1414:17:17, 22 November 2007 (UTC) 1395:09:22, 22 November 2007 (UTC) 1103:05:46, 4 September 2009 (UTC) 1053:Social and Municipal Problems 556:14:06, 26 February 2007 (UTC) 527:14:23, 14 February 2007 (UTC) 347:13:10, 27 February 2007 (UTC) 300:City & County of Honolulu 2233:03:45, 9 February 2014 (UTC) 2183:17:27, 27 January 2014 (UTC) 2161:12:41, 27 January 2014 (UTC) 2137:03:49, 9 February 2014 (UTC) 2000:01:58, 1 February 2012 (UTC) 1760:Care to give it a shot? :) — 1605:19:01, 30 October 2008 (UTC) 876:05:59, 17 January 2011 (UTC) 762:I could do that for Abkhaz. 705:from additional Cyrillic. -- 245:11:51, 13 October 2013 (UTC) 3326:05:11, 29 August 2015 (UTC) 2430:The area figure comes from 2109:17:32, 12 August 2013 (UTC) 2071:23:49, 14 August 2012 (UTC) 2056:10:51, 13 August 2012 (UTC) 2012:the same Pogoda.ru.net page 1931:on three or four maps with 1875:15:08, 13 August 2012 (UTC) 1779:) be more to your liking? — 1582:15:31, 25 August 2008 (UTC) 1565:04:40, 25 August 2008 (UTC) 165:13:06, 27 August 2010 (UTC) 3341: 3291:(last update: 5 June 2024) 3222:|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} 3197:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2083:We need create article of 2030:00:13, 17 March 2012 (UTC) 1904:16:38, 26 March 2011 (UTC) 1837:14:57, 22 March 2010 (UTC) 1755:15:41, 17 March 2010 (UTC) 1134:Knowledge:reliable sources 567:03:18, 28 April 2007 (UTC) 507:07:02, 3 August 2006 (UTC) 489:01:40, 3 August 2006 (UTC) 3174:Borders of the continents 3116:06:54, 5 March 2014 (UTC) 3067:07:33, 4 March 2014 (UTC) 3016:08:34, 3 March 2014 (UTC) 1974:20:05, 17 June 2011 (UTC) 1737:15:11, 3 March 2010 (UTC) 1672:14:53, 3 March 2010 (UTC) 851:02:03, 7 July 2007‎ (UTC) 800:05:42, 14 July 2007 (UTC) 772:19:34, 12 June 2007 (UTC) 758:19:30, 12 June 2007 (UTC) 743:19:18, 12 June 2007 (UTC) 685:13:12, 13 July 2007 (UTC) 655:13:38, 13 July 2007 (UTC) 590:08:15, 6 July 2007‎ (UTC) 480:) - in Georgian it means 467:21:25, 30 July 2013 (UTC) 333:21:33, 26 June 2006 (UTC) 324:20:53, 25 June 2006 (UTC) 307:21:18, 24 June 2006 (UTC) 292:19:37, 24 June 2006 (UTC) 272:02:10, 7 July 2007‎ (UTC) 224:15:43, 24 June 2006 (UTC) 208:14:41, 24 June 2006 (UTC) 198:14:28, 24 June 2006 (UTC) 180:14:19, 24 June 2006 (UTC) 148:19:13, 23 June 2006 (UTC) 133:06:39, 23 June 2006 (UTC) 120:Please check the article 115:23:33, 22 June 2006 (UTC) 96:19:52, 22 June 2006 (UTC) 79:19:27, 22 June 2006 (UTC) 3187:01:52, 26 May 2015 (UTC) 2091:or other. Photos are in 1727: 1535:20:34, 9 July 2008 (UTC) 1520:20:15, 9 July 2008 (UTC) 1507:13:56, 9 July 2008 (UTC) 1491:05:42, 9 July 2008 (UTC) 1446:localities (i.e., urban 1357:Putin, Chirac, Schroeder 1352:20:38, 9 July 2007 (UTC) 1335:18:04, 8 July 2007 (UTC) 1312:21:42, 7 July 2007 (UTC) 1293:21:26, 7 July 2007 (UTC) 1255:05:25, 8 July 2007 (UTC) 1239:05:25, 8 July 2007 (UTC) 1223:21:38, 7 July 2007 (UTC) 1187:14:35, 7 July 2007 (UTC) 1165:14:30, 7 July 2007 (UTC) 1142:06:59, 6 July 2007 (UTC) 1118:21:49, 5 July 2007 (UTC) 1087:20:07, 5 July 2007 (UTC) 1076:14:52, 5 July 2007 (UTC) 1062:14:27, 5 July 2007 (UTC) 1047:17:04, 6 July 2007 (UTC) 1033:20:04, 5 July 2007 (UTC) 1021:19:34, 5 July 2007 (UTC) 1003:12:43, 5 July 2007 (UTC) 944:The twin towns include: 829:19:57, 5 July 2007 (UTC) 819:06:02, 5 July 2007 (UTC) 634:02:44, 8 July 2007 (UTC) 605:01:51, 8 July 2007 (UTC) 538:11:39, 5 July 2007 (UTC) 413:14:43, 7 July 2007 (UTC) 364:11:34, 5 July 2007 (UTC) 3193:External links modified 1478:A rifle shot in passing 1321:0°C, July average : --> 1197:Knowledge:Verifiability 1130:Knowledge:Verifiability 721:16:50, 4 May 2007 (UTC) 701:. The Adyghe uses only 3031:Adlersky City District 1854: 1800: 1658: 1380:User talk:Ezhiki#Sochi 911:Long Beach, California 810:This is a RUSSIAN city 419:Adlersky City District 3003:urban-type settlement 2036:Olympic controversies 1851: 1794: 1696:43.58528°N 39.72028°E 1656: 171:Border with Abkhazia? 159: 42:of past discussions. 3272:regular verification 3257:to let others know. 3208:. If necessary, add 1657:currently in article 574:but subtropical?!?! 156:♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ 153:I agree with you. -- 70:Wikification needed? 3262:After February 2018 3253:parameter below to 2551:municipal divisions 1795:map showing all of 1195:It is needed. Read 3267:InternetArchiveBot 3145:In Southwest Asia? 1937:Europe-Asia divide 1855: 1801: 1701:43.58528; 39.72028 1659: 1267:The article says: 217: 191: 89: 3324: 3292: 3167: 3155:comment added by 3074:this kind of maps 2684:February 21, 2014 2641:February 21, 2014 2574:February 20, 2014 2543:settlement okrugs 2508:February 19, 2014 2463:February 19, 2014 2447:February 19, 2014 2363:February 19, 2014 2343:Anapa Urban Okrug 2114:Pronunciation of 1990:comment added by 1894:comment added by 1886:city portal Sochi 1799:with seas in blue 1620:comment added by 1567: 1555:comment added by 866:comment added by 841:comment added by 791: 712: 580:comment added by 517:comment added by 393: 381:comment added by 359:are much longer. 262:comment added by 235:comment added by 213: 187: 85: 67: 66: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 3332: 3320: 3319:Talk to my owner 3315: 3290: 3289: 3268: 3223: 3215: 3131: 3087: 3052: 3027:Krasnaya Polyana 2685: 2642: 2575: 2509: 2464: 2448: 2364: 2351:Anapsky District 2202: 2201:January 27, 2014 2028: 2002: 1941:Greater Caucasus 1906: 1872: 1867: 1862: 1775:(see it used in 1735: 1733: 1707: 1706: 1704: 1703: 1702: 1697: 1693: 1690: 1689: 1688: 1685: 1632: 1550: 1545:urban population 1440:Krasnaya Polyana 1300:Krasnaya Polyana 1178: 1156: 909: 908: 878: 853: 789: 710: 699:schwa (Cyrillic) 676: 646: 625: 592: 546:Temperature Info 530: 502: 472:Name of the City 404: 376: 355:or perhaps even 274: 247: 163: 158: 128: 102:Picture Caption? 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 3340: 3339: 3335: 3334: 3333: 3331: 3330: 3329: 3323: 3318: 3283: 3276:have permission 3266: 3217: 3209: 3195: 3147: 3129: 3108:Criticalthinker 3096: 3095: 3085: 3059:Criticalthinker 3050: 3008:Criticalthinker 2964:Criticalthinker 2904:say in English. 2683: 2640: 2622:in jurisdiction 2590:Criticalthinker 2573: 2516:Criticalthinker 2507: 2462: 2446: 2400:Criticalthinker 2381: 2362: 2310:Criticalthinker 2281:Criticalthinker 2252:Criticalthinker 2247: 2200: 2119: 2101:Subtropical-man 2081: 2040: 2019: 2008: 1985: 1981: 1912: 1889: 1882: 1870: 1865: 1860: 1725: 1700: 1698: 1694: 1691: 1686: 1683: 1681: 1679: 1678: 1651: 1615: 1612: 1597:Garret Beaumain 1590: 1547: 1480: 1375: 1359: 1345: 1310: 1265: 1185: 1163: 1125: 1111: 1069: 1055: 1042:will do for me 903: 887: 868:116.217.161.212 861: 836: 812: 770: 741: 728: 695: 683: 653: 632: 575: 548: 512: 500: 474: 411: 281: 279:Second longest? 257: 230: 222: 196: 173: 141: 126: 104: 94: 72: 59: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 3338: 3336: 3316: 3310: 3309: 3302: 3247: 3246: 3238:Added archive 3236: 3228:Added archive 3194: 3191: 3190: 3189: 3146: 3143: 3142: 3141: 3140: 3139: 3138: 3137: 3136: 3135: 3134: 3133: 3094: 3093: 3092: 3091: 3090: 3089: 3053:; 14:45 (UTC) 3023: 2999: 2998: 2997: 2996: 2995: 2994: 2993: 2992: 2991: 2990: 2989: 2988: 2987: 2986: 2985: 2984: 2983: 2982: 2981: 2980: 2979: 2978: 2977: 2976: 2975: 2974: 2930: 2929: 2928: 2927: 2926: 2925: 2924: 2923: 2922: 2921: 2920: 2919: 2918: 2917: 2916: 2915: 2914: 2913: 2912: 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2235: 2225:209.172.25.250 2220: 2209: 2208: 2207: 2206: 2205: 2204: 2164: 2163: 2148: 2144: 2129:209.172.25.250 2118: 2112: 2080: 2075: 2074: 2073: 2039: 2033: 2007: 2004: 1980: 1977: 1911: 1908: 1896:217.150.46.189 1881: 1878: 1842: 1841: 1840: 1839: 1812: 1808:Krasnodar Krai 1797:Krasnodar Krai 1789: 1788: 1769: 1742: 1741: 1740: 1739: 1718: 1717: 1650: 1647: 1646: 1645: 1622:99.250.143.122 1611: 1608: 1589: 1586: 1585: 1584: 1557:68.150.200.186 1546: 1543: 1542: 1541: 1540: 1539: 1538: 1537: 1479: 1476: 1475: 1474: 1473: 1472: 1471: 1470: 1374: 1371: 1358: 1355: 1344: 1341: 1340: 1339: 1338: 1337: 1306: 1286:Salt Lake City 1264: 1261: 1260: 1259: 1258: 1257: 1244: 1243: 1242: 1241: 1228: 1227: 1226: 1225: 1207: 1206: 1205: 1190: 1189: 1181: 1167: 1159: 1124: 1121: 1110: 1107: 1106: 1105: 1090: 1089: 1068: 1065: 1054: 1051: 1050: 1049: 1036: 1035: 1024: 1023: 996: 995: 994: 993: 987: 981: 975: 969: 963: 957: 951: 941: 940: 939: 938: 937: 936: 935: 934: 933: 932: 931: 930: 916: 915: 914: 913: 893:Sochi has one 886: 883: 882: 881: 880: 879: 855: 854: 832: 831: 811: 808: 807: 806: 805: 804: 803: 802: 782:other language 766: 737: 727: 724: 694: 691: 690: 689: 688: 687: 679: 662: 661: 660: 659: 658: 657: 649: 636: 628: 610: 609: 608: 607: 602:84.202.199.101 594: 593: 570: 569: 564:203.206.99.134 547: 544: 543: 542: 541: 540: 531: 519:134.147.29.100 473: 470: 459:Peter Chastain 454: 453: 452: 451: 450: 449: 448: 447: 446: 445: 444: 443: 442: 441: 407: 369: 366: 310: 309: 280: 277: 276: 275: 254: 253: 252: 251: 250: 249: 248: 218: 192: 172: 169: 168: 167: 140: 137: 136: 135: 112:71.234.219.101 103: 100: 99: 98: 90: 71: 68: 65: 64: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 3337: 3328: 3327: 3321: 3314: 3307: 3303: 3300: 3296: 3295: 3294: 3287: 3281: 3277: 3273: 3269: 3263: 3258: 3256: 3252: 3245: 3241: 3237: 3235: 3231: 3227: 3226: 3225: 3221: 3213: 3207: 3203: 3198: 3192: 3188: 3184: 3180: 3175: 3170: 3169: 3168: 3166: 3162: 3158: 3154: 3144: 3132:; 12:58 (UTC) 3130:March 5, 2014 3127: 3123: 3119: 3118: 3117: 3113: 3109: 3104: 3103: 3102: 3101: 3100: 3099: 3098: 3097: 3088:; 16:24 (UTC) 3086:March 4, 2014 3083: 3079: 3075: 3070: 3069: 3068: 3064: 3060: 3055: 3054: 3051:March 3, 2014 3048: 3044: 3040: 3036: 3032: 3028: 3024: 3020: 3019: 3018: 3017: 3013: 3009: 3004: 2973: 2969: 2965: 2961: 2956: 2955: 2954: 2953: 2952: 2951: 2950: 2949: 2948: 2947: 2946: 2945: 2944: 2943: 2942: 2941: 2940: 2939: 2938: 2937: 2936: 2935: 2934: 2933: 2932: 2931: 2902: 2901: 2900: 2899: 2898: 2897: 2896: 2895: 2894: 2893: 2892: 2891: 2890: 2889: 2888: 2887: 2886: 2885: 2884: 2883: 2882: 2881: 2880: 2879: 2878: 2877: 2848: 2847: 2846: 2845: 2844: 2843: 2842: 2841: 2840: 2839: 2838: 2837: 2836: 2835: 2834: 2833: 2832: 2831: 2830: 2829: 2828: 2827: 2826: 2825: 2824: 2823: 2795: 2790: 2789: 2788: 2787: 2786: 2785: 2784: 2783: 2782: 2781: 2780: 2779: 2778: 2777: 2776: 2775: 2774: 2773: 2772: 2771: 2770: 2769: 2768: 2767: 2766: 2765: 2736: 2735: 2734: 2733: 2732: 2731: 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1634: 1633: 1631: 1627: 1623: 1619: 1609: 1607: 1606: 1602: 1598: 1594: 1588:Mayor retired 1587: 1583: 1579: 1575: 1570: 1569: 1568: 1566: 1562: 1558: 1554: 1544: 1536: 1532: 1528: 1523: 1522: 1521: 1518: 1514: 1510: 1509: 1508: 1504: 1500: 1495: 1494: 1493: 1492: 1489: 1485: 1477: 1469: 1465: 1461: 1457: 1453: 1449: 1445: 1441: 1437: 1433: 1428: 1427: 1426: 1422: 1417: 1416: 1415: 1411: 1407: 1403: 1399: 1398: 1397: 1396: 1392: 1388: 1383: 1382: 1381: 1372: 1370: 1369: 1366: 1363: 1356: 1354: 1353: 1350: 1342: 1336: 1333: 1329: 1325: 1319: 1315: 1314: 1313: 1309: 1305: 1301: 1297: 1296: 1295: 1294: 1291: 1287: 1283: 1279: 1275: 1270: 1262: 1256: 1253: 1248: 1247: 1246: 1245: 1240: 1237: 1232: 1231: 1230: 1229: 1224: 1221: 1217: 1213: 1208: 1204: 1201: 1200: 1198: 1194: 1193: 1192: 1191: 1188: 1184: 1183:Contributions 1179: 1177: 1176: 1168: 1166: 1162: 1161:Contributions 1157: 1155: 1154: 1146: 1145: 1144: 1143: 1140: 1135: 1131: 1122: 1120: 1119: 1116: 1108: 1104: 1100: 1096: 1092: 1091: 1088: 1085: 1080: 1079: 1078: 1077: 1074: 1066: 1064: 1063: 1060: 1052: 1048: 1045: 1041: 1038: 1037: 1034: 1031: 1026: 1025: 1022: 1019: 1015: 1011: 1007: 1006: 1005: 1004: 1001: 991: 988: 985: 982: 979: 976: 973: 970: 967: 964: 961: 958: 955: 952: 949: 946: 945: 943: 942: 928: 927: 926: 925: 924: 923: 922: 921: 920: 919: 918: 917: 912: 907: 902: 901: 900: 896: 892: 891: 890: 884: 877: 873: 869: 865: 859: 858: 857: 856: 852: 848: 844: 840: 834: 833: 830: 827: 823: 822: 821: 820: 817: 809: 801: 797: 794: 787: 783: 779: 775: 774: 773: 769: 765: 761: 760: 759: 755: 751: 747: 746: 745: 744: 740: 736: 731: 725: 723: 722: 718: 715: 708: 704: 700: 692: 686: 682: 681:Contributions 677: 675: 674: 666: 665: 664: 663: 656: 652: 651:Contributions 647: 645: 644: 637: 635: 631: 630:Contributions 626: 624: 623: 616: 615: 614: 613: 612: 611: 606: 603: 598: 597: 596: 595: 591: 587: 583: 582:59.190.126.20 579: 572: 571: 568: 565: 560: 559: 558: 557: 554: 545: 539: 536: 532: 528: 524: 520: 516: 510: 509: 508: 505: 503: 497: 493: 492: 491: 490: 487: 483: 479: 471: 469: 468: 464: 460: 440: 436: 432: 428: 424: 420: 416: 415: 414: 410: 409:Contributions 405: 403: 402: 395: 394: 392: 388: 384: 380: 374: 370: 367: 365: 362: 358: 354: 350: 349: 348: 345: 341: 336: 335: 334: 331: 327: 326: 325: 322: 318: 314: 313: 312: 311: 308: 305: 301: 296: 295: 294: 293: 290: 286: 278: 273: 269: 265: 261: 255: 246: 242: 238: 237:46.188.14.101 234: 227: 226: 225: 221: 216: 211: 210: 209: 206: 201: 200: 199: 195: 190: 184: 183: 182: 181: 178: 170: 166: 162: 157: 152: 151: 150: 149: 146: 139:peacock words 138: 134: 131: 129: 123: 119: 118: 117: 116: 113: 109: 101: 97: 93: 88: 83: 82: 81: 80: 77: 69: 62: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 3311: 3286:source check 3265: 3259: 3254: 3250: 3248: 3199: 3196: 3151:— Preceding 3148: 3000: 2626:rural okrugs 2621: 2606: 2547:rural okrugs 2248: 2153:88.5.141.106 2126: 2123: 2120: 2115: 2082: 2041: 2035: 2009: 2006:Climate data 1992:83.10.97.201 1986:— Preceding 1982: 1946:WP:Consensus 1932: 1928: 1913: 1883: 1856: 1843: 1773:this quality 1743: 1729: 1728: 1660: 1613: 1591: 1548: 1513:Petrozavodsk 1481: 1451: 1447: 1443: 1435: 1401: 1384: 1377: 1376: 1360: 1346: 1327: 1323: 1317: 1290:Gestumblindi 1268: 1266: 1220:Gestumblindi 1215: 1211: 1202: 1173: 1171: 1151: 1149: 1126: 1123:Longest city 1112: 1070: 1056: 997: 888: 843:66.108.14.58 837:— Preceding 813: 781: 732: 729: 696: 671: 669: 641: 639: 620: 618: 576:— Preceding 549: 513:— Preceding 477: 475: 455: 427:rural okrugs 422: 399: 397: 383:77.51.11.224 282: 264:66.108.14.58 258:— Preceding 231:— Preceding 174: 142: 107: 105: 73: 60: 43: 37: 3157:82.68.94.86 3022:addressing. 2432:this source 2048:Gymnophoria 1890:—Preceding 1880:City portal 1649:maps needed 1616:—Preceding 1551:—Preceding 1484:User:Ezhiki 1365:Nicolas1981 1282:Lillehammer 1175:Haplolology 1153:Haplolology 1109:Olympic bid 1095:190.21.35.4 895:sister city 885:Twin cities 862:—Preceding 816:91.76.3.175 776:I adde the 673:Haplolology 643:Haplolology 622:Haplolology 553:Haplolology 401:Haplolology 377:—Preceding 344:Haplolology 36:This is an 2175:Wavelength 1687:39°43′13″E 1684:43°35′07″N 1610:population 1308:¿question? 1014:verifiable 972:Long Beach 948:Cheltenham 768:¿question? 739:¿question? 486:Dmanagadze 353:Kryvyi Rih 145:Dspserpico 18:Talk:Sochi 3312:Cheers. — 3306:this tool 3299:this tool 2481:TarzanASG 2328:Ymblanter 2295:Ymblanter 2267:Ymblanter 2061:I agree. 1278:Innsbruck 1252:Nil Einne 1236:Nil Einne 1139:Nil Einne 1084:Nil Einne 1073:Fang Aili 1067:Edit wars 1030:Nil Einne 826:Nil Einne 790:see also: 786:Üñţïf̣ļëŗ 711:see also: 707:Üñţïf̣ļëŗ 535:Colchicum 361:Colchicum 357:Volgograd 76:Escheffel 61:Archive 1 3212:cbignore 3153:unsigned 2545:", and " 2322:I think 2063:Cleanbug 2016:WP:NOENG 1988:unsigned 1923:sources 1892:unsigned 1853:clearly. 1618:unsigned 1553:unsigned 1421:Yufereff 1391:Yufereff 1332:CrazyC83 1274:Chamonix 1059:Mkeranat 1018:Dr. Cash 864:unsigned 839:unsigned 780:name to 703:palochka 578:unsigned 515:unsigned 379:unsigned 260:unsigned 233:unsigned 3322::Online 3251:checked 3206:my edit 3033:of the 2470:Пахомов 2093:Commons 2038:section 1829:doncram 1825:wt:NRHP 1816:Georgia 1777:Kyakhta 1747:doncram 1664:doncram 1349:Dojarca 1343:History 1216:nothing 1199:again: 1010:sources 978:Trabzon 39:archive 3220:nobots 3179:DLinth 2615:cities 2535:Cities 2414:krai). 2324:Ezhiki 1966:DLinth 1950:Europe 1517:Ghirla 1488:Ghirla 1304:Alæxis 1000:Ghirla 992:(1996) 990:Weihai 986:(1994) 980:(1991) 974:(1990) 968:(1989) 962:(1977) 960:Rimini 956:(1966) 954:Menton 950:(1959) 778:Adyghe 764:Alæxis 735:Alæxis 501:Ghirla 496:Adyghe 330:Golbez 304:Golbez 127:Ghirla 3202:Sochi 3039:Sochi 2539:Towns 2347:Anapa 2116:Sochi 1962:WP:RS 1921:WP:RS 1456:Sochi 1436:urban 1044:Vanky 984:Pärnu 966:Espoo 897:, as 726:Names 693:Шәэча 482:Larch 220:deeds 205:Kober 194:deeds 177:Kober 92:deeds 16:< 3255:true 3183:talk 3161:talk 3112:talk 3063:talk 3035:City 3012:talk 2968:talk 2611:City 2594:talk 2541:", " 2520:talk 2485:talk 2453:up.— 2424:city 2420:City 2404:talk 2349:and 2332:talk 2314:talk 2299:talk 2285:talk 2271:talk 2256:talk 2229:talk 2189:this 2179:talk 2157:talk 2147:way. 2133:talk 2105:talk 2097:here 2067:talk 2052:talk 2025:talk 2021:Span 1996:talk 1970:talk 1956:and 1952:and 1900:talk 1884:New 1833:talk 1751:talk 1668:talk 1626:talk 1601:talk 1561:talk 1486:. -- 1432:here 1212:must 1115:SGGH 1099:talk 872:talk 847:talk 586:talk 523:talk 478:სოჭი 463:talk 387:talk 371:See 340:Omsk 321:Talk 317:timc 289:Talk 285:timc 268:talk 241:talk 215:tasc 189:tasc 108:That 87:tasc 3280:RfC 3242:to 3232:to 3128:); 3126:yo? 3124:• ( 3084:); 3082:yo? 3080:• ( 3049:); 3047:yo? 3045:• ( 3037:of 2682:); 2680:yo? 2678:• ( 2639:); 2637:yo? 2635:• ( 2572:); 2570:yo? 2568:• ( 2506:); 2504:yo? 2502:• ( 2477:МУП 2461:); 2459:yo? 2457:• ( 2445:); 2443:yo? 2441:• ( 2361:); 2359:yo? 2357:• ( 2199:); 2197:yo? 2195:• ( 2173:. — 1866:ncr 1785:yo? 1783:• ( 1766:yo? 1764:• ( 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