859:
change the name of the page to Dr. Samuel
Johnson, we will continue to need a redirect from the Samuel Johnson dab p., and searching for "Samuel Johnson" would need to go to the dab page not directly here.(Otherwise people looking for one of the lesser Johnsons would first go to Dr. SJ, andthen be directed elsewhere , which is more confusing than at present. The only reason for using Samuel Johnson Ll.D was if it was desired to have a distinctive title for the page. I do not think it necessary, and would rather leave well enough alone.
888:- maybe it's my age (I'm over 40), but Samuel Johnson, philosopher and pioneer of dictionaries, is someone about whom everyone learned when I was going through high school. None of the others mentioned come close to having such notability (the footballer MIGHT if an American football star, but he is in fact what is called in the U.S. a "soccer player", as plays in Ghanda). In fact, all but two of the other articles linked to from the main page are essentially stubs.
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template so that a move could be considered to any number of destination names. Clearly there exist acceptable destination alternatives and clearly it is a worthy debate as to whether Samuel
Johnson is the primary desired search result. That is what this survey is about. The survey questions whether you believe the majority of people entering Samuel Johnson are looking for the person who is there now.
803:
realized that at least 6 other notable Samuel
Johnsons exist. The most important consideration in whether you support the move is whether you believe that the majority of people entering Samuel Johnson and press go are looking for the person located there now. If that is not the case a dab page should be there or that page should redirect to a dab page.
1214:
I have placed so-called "scare quotes" around the word "refutation", because a student of philosophy would not agree to call it either a refutation or a confirmation. The amusement in the anecdote stems from the fact that Dr
Johnson deemed it a refutation, whereas it could not possibly be anything of
286:
Is there a
Knowledge convention about traditional punctuation conventions such as "Dr. Johnson", versus 20th-century punctuation innovations such as "Dr Johnson" (which is not standard -- indeed, not known -- among most English-speaking people, but has become standard in England in recent decades)?
1272:
There is a sentence in the third paragraph under "Legacy": "Johnson is often able to find ways of comparing things or people with dogs." ...which as far as I can tell makes no sense regarding
Johnson, and really doesn't mean much in the context even if it refers to his parody in Blackadder. Whoever
1257:
I think Dr. Johnson is misunderstood by the author who claims that the man admired Scots. The quote used to support this assertion does not even need to be contextualized to show that
Johnson thought Scots (Highlanders especially, in this specific quote) allowed their love for their own country to
1199:
I have corrected the account of
Boswell's first conversation with Johnson, but am not sure how to give a citation - I could give page number in my (Everyman) edition, but there are many editions. The abridged edition in Project Gutenberg which is cited in the article doesn't appear to be paginated.
924:
It does not violate naming conventions. Read both 1 and 2, not just 1. There is little debate that the current Samuel
Johnson is the most recognisable. The question is whether 70% or 30% of the people entering "Samuel Johnson" are actually looking for the person that is there. I added the second
621:
You are right, for the actual citation is from
Journal of a Tour to the Hebrides (Oct.5, 1773), where Johnson mentions that "it has been a common saying of physicians in England, that a cucumber should be well-sliced, dressed with pepper and vinegar, and then thrown out." It looked odd--thanks for
502:
Could we have some examples of his sayings (though I guess we would then have to show their provenance)? My favorites are: a second marriage is "the triumph of hope over experience," and about the American Revolution that it was "curious that the drivers of negros should be the loudest yelpers for
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link is for. When a Knowledge subject has a corresponding Wikiquote page, and a fairly large one at that, it seems redundant to build a quotations section here in Knowledge. I say this in a less than disinterested way, since I've done some work on the Johnson Wikiquotes recently and am still doing
858:
Thanks for formatting. I fixed your spellingĀ :). To be precise, if we leave the page as is,we will continued to need a redirect from the dab page, and from Dr.Samuel Johnson (& I forgot about the other one). We will not need a redirect to Samuel Johnson, because that goes here directly. If we
802:
Let me clarify my statement above. The reason for having an article at a human name page is because the majority of people who enter that human name are searching for that individual. This survey is a reconsideration of whether we continue to believe that to be the case given that we have now
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I can't remember where I came across it unfortunately, but I heard/read somewhere that if a word is shortened such that it still contains the last letter of the original word, the full stop may be dropped, but if the last letter is missing, then it should be retained.
565:
I think the article would benefit from a short sentence explaining why he is called Dr Johnson (and not Mr Johnson). I assume it is because of the honorary doctorates he is said to have received from Trinity and Oxford, but the article doesn't nail it on the head.
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destination. If I am interpreting your response incorrectly let me know. I have added the move options template as a result so that we can discuss the destination if the move is supported. I also took the liberty of formatting the indenting of your response.
597:
I just looked up "cucumbers" in Johnson's dictionary. It didn't say anything about his hatred of cucumbers. The closest it came was a distinction of the common cucumber to a superior variety grown in Holland. I think this needs to be deleted. Any objections?
343:
We accept both US and British English spelling, but there's an unofficial tendency to use British for acticles about British things and US for US... BTW, Mike, I've been seeing your name on talk pages for months... you planning on getting a user ID? --
637:
Would like to see more here about the initial reception and subsequent overall influence of the dictionary, the arduousness of it's making, it's few quirky definitions, the controversy over patronage and Johnson's letter to Lord Chesterfield etc.
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That was never the point. The point is whether SJ is a more desired search result than the others combined, which he may be based on the responses. That is how you determine whether a dab or an article should be on article name.
295:. I've generally been trying (and sometimes failing) to treat it in a similar manner to British/American differences in spelling (that is to say, trying to keep things consistent within an article, regardless of which is used).
472:
I fixed it. Someone felt compelled to preced the first sentance with "The son of a porn star...". I just deleted that. Feel sorry for all those kids copying and pasting their history reports. Going to get nasty marks from their
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eliminate the dab p., because we'd still want to link from his true name, and that would be the only way to do it. At present, Dr. Samuel Johnson redirects to Samuel Johnson, and that accomplishes everything you intend.
948:
On any dab there is always someone who gets the most hits. That does not mean a dab is not necessary. The question is whether Samuel continues to be by far the most sought search result in light of new evidence.
789:
the patriarch of the richest family in Wisconsin. The primacy of Dr. Samuel Johnson versus the remaining field of Samuel Johnsons should be reconsidered. This move would enable replacement of the dab page at
360:
putting it there is certainly more British than American. Some people who went to school in England before the convention of dropping the "full stop" became customary are still less than 65 years old.
987:. I'm not sure if there's any easy way to resolve objectively, but from an admittedly subjective sense of things, there is only one Samuel Johnson with a nearly universal level of name recognition.
402:
The article is now inconsistent in that it describes Dr Johnson, but also refers to "Revd. Samuel Lea MA". This would have to be "Revd Samuel Lea MA" according to the Oxford English Dictionary.
1200:
One way might be to give the date, as Boswell is basically chronological; but it takes some searching to establish the date. If I knew how to do it, I could give more citations from Boswell.
396:
I seem to have settled any argument over adding his Blackadder appearance. I think I'm just putting off doing proper articles for Erskine, Inchinnan and Bishopton like I've been meaning to.
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To do this, you'd add ], where PAGE is the name of the Samuel Johnson article. Unfortunately, I can't add this for you without knowing the title of it on the other wikipedia...
527:
I'd sure like to at least see his "No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money" -- simply because of the delicious irony of it being in the Knowledge article about him!
547:
was the first real dictionary of the English language language and has been hugely influential on the language we are using now. I propose that the disambig page should be
146:ā this page rested peacefully at "Samuel Johnson" for years until a newish user moved it in Feb 2006, apparently without consultation. I propose it be moved back.
1095:'s time. Dr. Johnson will remain the primary bearer of the name, even when the dab page is complete (as it is not; where's "Julian" Johnson, the pamphleteer?)
958:
In fact, I believe the question is whether he is sought more than the aggregate of the other page members. If not then the dab should be at the ambiguous name.
934:
Further, Google reveals (as expected) that this Samuel Johnson (writer) gets the largest number of hits, and no disambiguation to his name is needed.
447:
as well. This National Portrait Gallery link shows a copy of the original portrait. It also has engravings and sculptures derived from the painting.
465:
Unfortunately I do not have the knowledge to fix this, but the first paragraph is clearly wrong. Could someone with some more information fix this?
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a British convention that Dr. Johnson was aware of, nor his biographer Boswell. Boswell wrote "Dr. Johnson", "Mr. Garrick", etc. -- Mike Hardy
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wrote in his journal,December 18, 1783 "I have spent two hours with a great man. Dr. Johnson, who is sinking into the grave by gently decay"
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433:? I think the current Joshua Reynolds images reinforce the "gruff, lovable clubman" stereotype; this shows him an entirely different light.
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covering Samuel Johnson and his long-awaited dictionary. I notice Da Vinci has a section on his use in fiction, is this worth adding here?
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700:. However, by the current results, it appears that likely won't pass either, and I would advise that it's probably not worth the effort. -
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684:. Clearly, there is no consensus for the move, nor will there be. Suggest that if you wish to create a dab, then to relist under
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Getting a user ID would entail admitting that I spend time on this stuff, but maybe I'll do it eventually. -- Mike Hardy
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Please can we drop the full stop on "Dr". He was British. It's the British convention. And it looks weirdĀ :-( --
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the sort. It is as though Stephen Jay Gould were to kick a dinosaur egg and say, "I refute Creationism thus."
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Everything works fine now. I continue to suggest that we leave it alone, and not discusse it every 6 months.
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Putting a period (or "full stop") after "Dr" in "Dr. Johnson" is not more American than British, even though
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and suggest instead that any move goes to Samuel Johnson (writer), Samuel Johnson (philsopher) or similar.
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For example, Doctor becomes Dr and Road becomes Rd, but Professor becomes Prof. and Company becomes Co. --
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Sorry, that is what I meant. I think that the majority of users will be looking for this Samuel Johnson.
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You are correct in your destination page suggestion. I apologize for misinterpreting the relative
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The article is growing with a lot of uncited text, which (in the absence of citation) reads like
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Only one person comes to my mind for that name and I suspect that is the case for most of us.
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I believe you are saying that that you support moving the page, but disagree with the
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I have added the requested citation for Johnson making Barber his residuary legatee.
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on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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is now a redirect here, it seems odd to have this page at a disambiguated name.
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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blind them to what Johnson saw as a lack of any noble or civilized tradition.
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If this text isn't cited when it is added, it will be hard to cite it later.
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followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with
1167:... often on moral and religious topics, tended to be ... according to whom?
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We've dropped the period (we call it a full stop) in Wales and Scotland too!
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more, finding sources for attributed quotes, adding quotes and links, etc.
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1170:(Some readers have had this experience.) don't know what this sentence is.
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1157:. Direct quotes should also be cited. Some of the weasly phrases are:
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See revised directions directly below my initial statement of support.
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inducing me to check. Out it goes. Insert your favorite replacement.
1164:.. it is possible that Johnson put words into speakers' mouths ...
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Among students of philosophy, Dr. Johnson is perhaps best known ...
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liberty." Everyone else has their own favorites, I would imagine.
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I have translate this article to chinese,please add a link,thanks
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal.
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monitors this page might consider deleting it. --Greg Bryant
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The picture says its from 'circa 2002'. That's not right. -
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as per all above. None of the other SJs even come close.
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changing the name of the page to Samuel Johnson Ll.D.
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543:, the overwhelming majority refer to this man. His
1226:Removed from external links - not an external link
372:Sounds like a Wikipediholic in denial... LOL --
229:is okay, too. (making the disambig pageĀ ?) --
1015:. I'd like to direct everyone to the relevant
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1253:Had a few positive things to say about Scots
1176:Scholars have often noted ... what scholars?
765:move, 6 new entries have been added to the
1173:It is widely believed that ... by whom?
1294:Do not edit the contents of this page.
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
908:Knowledge:Naming conventions (people)
535:should be this article not a disambig
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545:A Dictionary of the English Language
513:On the other hand, that's what the
429:Does anyone know which artist did
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767:Samuel Johnson (disambiguation)
694:Samuel Johnson (disambiguation)
549:Samuel Johnson (disambiguation)
1126:The lead needs attention, per
904:Oppose and remove the proposal
781:, a Presidential grandfather,
616:) 02:02, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
452:00:17, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
227:Samuel Johnson (lexicographer)
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910:is very clear on the topic.
676:The result of the debate was
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539:There are about 470 links to
270:There was a whole episode of
106:The result of the debate was
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1210:"Refutation", not Refutation
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785:, an active footballer, and
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627:05:00, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
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425:Alternative image of Johnson
783:Samuel Johnson (footballer)
633:Influence of the dictionary
588:21:32, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
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787:Samuel Curtis Johnson, Sr.
773:, a Presidential sibling,
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777:, a Presidential father,
652:03:16, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
291:It's covered somewhat in
278:12:42, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)
1110:Please do not modify it.
779:Samuel Ealy Johnson, Sr.
775:Samuel Ealy Johnson, Jr.
668:Please do not modify it.
256:Please do not modify it.
98:Please do not modify it.
692:along with a move from
690:Samuel Johnson (author)
571:13:17, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
419:13:24, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
348:22:43 Jan 2, 2003 (UTC)
323:22:27 Jan 2, 2003 (UTC)
1195:Citations from Boswell
1091:and deprecate wasting
400:A full stop theory(2):
1292:of past discussions.
688:under something like
604:comment was added by
42:of past discussions.
771:Sam Houston Johnson
443:Actually, that's a
384:A full stop theory:
18:Talk:Samuel Johnson
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714:Dr. Samuel Johnson
568:Lupine Proletariat
282:Full stop after Dr
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225:. A move to
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1286:This is an
1231:John Wesley
644:Ottava Rima
36:This is an
1046:BlueValour
761:Since the
753:Discussion
716:ā {{{3}}}
484:Circa 2002
392:Saintchris
297:Hephaestos
272:Blackadder
266:In fiction
1330:ArchiveĀ 5
1322:ArchiveĀ 3
1317:ArchiveĀ 2
1311:ArchiveĀ 1
702:Patstuart
515:Wikiquote
80:ArchiveĀ 5
72:ArchiveĀ 3
67:ArchiveĀ 2
61:ArchiveĀ 1
1077:FiggyBee
1058:FiggyBee
614:contribs
602:unsigned
579:Citation
505:Eddieuny
498:Bon Mots
445:Reynolds
435:Tearlach
416:Shimgray
1289:archive
1239:Georgia
1128:WP:LEAD
1121:WP:LEAD
1021:Natalie
759:Support
682:WP:SNOW
678:no move
642:Added.
553:JBellis
480:jgreat
374:Tarquin
346:Tarquin
331:It was
321:Tarquin
276:DamienG
239:Support
223:Support
211:Support
199:Support
179:Support
165:Support
113:Nightst
39:archive
1202:JohnCD
1054:Oppose
1042:Oppose
1013:Oppose
1001:Oppose
985:Oppose
886:Oppose
815:Oppose
726:Survey
561:Doctor
475:Jgreat
467:Bix783
231:PFHLai
169:Oppose
157:Survey
1237:Sandy
1182:Sandy
1132:Sandy
1093:WP:RM
1005:Steve
993:wiser
989:older
936:Sandy
912:Sandy
732:Add
686:WP:RM
243:Aldux
203:Brand
187:David
163:Add *
123:llion
16:<
1244:Talk
1186:Talk
1136:Talk
940:Talk
916:Talk
894:Talk
738:or
680:per
648:talk
610:talk
551:. --
241:. --
191:Talk
173:~~~~
167:or *
108:move
1032:of
975:DGG
892:|
861:DGG
837:DGG
824:DGG
819:not
624:DGG
358:not
333:not
307:Deb
148:Deb
128:(?)
110:. ā
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612:ā¢
213:.
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189:|
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76:ā
1300:.
1242:(
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831:'
646:(
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118:a
50:.
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