Talk:Self-driving car/Archive 1

365:"Motor-vehicle crashes during 1990 accounted for 44,531 fatalities, 5.4 million nonfatal injuries, and 28 million damaged vehicles, and an estimated total cost of $ 137.5 billion (Table 1). Major sources for cost were property damage ($ 45.7 billion {33%}), productivity losses in the workplace ($ 39.8 billion {29%}), medical-care expenses (13.9 billion {10%}), and losses related to household productivity ($ 10.8 billion {8%})." $ 137.5 billion dollars is wasted on vehicle collisions in a single year. The benefits of an autonomous system range far beyond fewer traffic accidents. The whole reason Eisenhower built the Interstates in the first place is to allow quick evacuation of people and quick mobilization of the military and emergency response crews. Cars communicating to each other can notify the entire system to downed roadways and traffic free routes. With all that's been said in the recent years about national security and increasing national debt, it's a mystery to me why the government doesn't feel the need to exponentially increase it's funding for its antedated transportation system. 1040:

life a dull, repetitive, bland quality. You always know what will happen, and the chance of excitement, adventure, or disaster is practically none. Humans need danger, control, freedom. For example: many people like to go for a drive for enjoyment. Nobody likes to ride in a taxi for enjoyment. That is essentially what an automated car is, a robot taxi. It would be great for blind, eldery etc., but regular people want control. I want to actually steer, to feel the gas and the brake, to control it. I can go ten miles under the speed limit or I can peel out at a stop sign. Now I understand driving is one of the most dangerous activities on the planet, more deadly than lightning strikes and shark attacks combined, but is it really worth surrendering something we have loved for over a hundred years to robots? -USAdrivr

97:

make driving safer and more relaxing. It uses lasers, a video camera and plenty of computing power to "see" signs, bends, other vehicles and lane markings, and to control the engine, steering and brakes to keep the car in the correct position on the road and maintain a safe distance from the vehicle in front. The system is to become available on more models by the end of the decade — initially other cars on the Epsilon platform, including the next Saab 9-3, Cadillac BLS and Saturn Aura. Whether it will be launched in the U.S. will depend on whether administrators deem it safe — product liability laws are different in America. GM expects the package to be about 50-percent more expensive than conventional active cruise control radar equipment, which controls distances but cannot steer the car.

1804:

anything else, it's going to be one or the other. And that means government restrictions on all vehicles, which leads me to another problem: crime, in the form of said passionate people who will do their very best to keep driving their manually controlled, internal combustion powered cars in the face of the law. One can bet there will be criminal organizations dedicated to creating and distributing fuel and parts. Outlaws everywhere will conceal their vehicles and drive them whenever they feel brave. Some of these vehicles will be able to easily outrun just about any autonomous vehicle, save for EMP attacks of course, which still wouldn't be 100% reliable. The point being is, the human will is not to be underestimated.

445:"Seat-of-Pants" refers to information from inertial sensors. All taken together -- The steering machine requires equivalents to eyes, ears, ear-canals & some of bodily touch. From these, the machine calculates first-order steering commands : Hold the road, do no harm. The next steering level deals with traffic flow : read the street and traffic signs, follow the rules, optimize flow for all, including pedestrians, while the next level deals with trips, with destinations. The maximum optimization of the two highest levels requires increasing degrees of local and central communications. 1560:, and we don't do that here. You seem to have expertise in the topic, and that is certainly welcome, esp. in this case where there have been many unsupported assertions, but we need to be careful about following policy. If you can bring some sources to the table that directly support the assertions that driverless cars will only reduce accident rates by a factor of X, or that a particular estimate of how much they would reduce rates is questionable, we can certainly use those--the more reliable sources the better. And if you yourself have written an article that is published in a 924:""IBM neglected, however, to gain an even more dominant role in the nascent industry by allowing the RAND Corporation to take over the job of programming the new computers, because, according to one project participant (Robert P. Crago), "we couldn't imagine where we could absorb two thousand programmers at IBM when this job would be over some day, which shows how well we were understanding the future at that time" IBM would use its experience designing massive, integrated real-time networks with SAGE to design its SABRE airline reservation system, which met with much success"". 1197:

optimize traffic flow on the micro level. When all auto/autos do this, traffic will also be optimized at the macro level. All that needs to be done is design algorithms that can do this and create a certification system for manufacturers to comply with. Doing it this way will cost a lot less. When traffic monitors are missing the auto/auto can still do its job. Also humans can participate in traffic without having to speak binary which is a great advantage. I can already imagine jaywalking to become a common practice. You just cross the road and the auto/autos let you cross.

324:

private companies similar to today's taxis companies will. More people will choose to use a public-type system because of the clear advantages it will offer (much lower cost due to higher rate of utilisation, more flexible, no parking problems, one way journeys possible). Some people will still prefer to own a private vehicle, or choose combination of both. Whatever the scenario however, I can't see why fully private and "taxi" vehicles can't happily coexist on the road (or any other guidance system).

1544:

lives can be saved. Sebastian Thrun estimates that half of traffic injuries could be prevented. Neither number is credible, since no one knows what percent of car trips will be driverless or what the fatality rate for driverless vehicles will be. A 1995 study found that autonomy drastically reduced the accident rates for commuter trains. If thinking is permitted, one might conclude that there is a possibility that autonomy could greatly reduce traffic accidents. ---- Tyler Folsom

805:"Driving as a personal hobby and sport, and indeed the entire car-oriented sub-culture would be effectively eliminated." is from the article. I don't understand how it would do that, especially as a sport. I mean, I kind of get the gist of what it means, but I don't see how driverless cars on the road would keep people from driving in NASCAR or Indy or what have you any more than cars kept people from doing equestrian sports. Am I misunderstanding the statement? 1882:

to drive an automated car is similar to the matter of gun control; who may own arms and walk among civilians and who may drive a car and walk among civilians might be the same question. Public security increases with 4% to 5% plain clothes legal gun ownership in the general population; I think public safety might optimize with automated cars and 4% to 5% driver-operable without visible indicators as to which individuals have autonomy on the road.

31: 133:

Can you substantiate what you said? or were you discussing this talk page? In any case, the fully driverless car is in the future, if it will ever happen at all, and for that reason alone could be justly termed "a marvel". Anyhow, feel free to improve the article itself, or discuss specifics here - I just can't quite relate to what you said, I suppose. Please enlighten me, especialy on the "first person" stuff.

1631:

protect itself against this? Or consider this: Suppose that, somewhere in millions lines of code, there is a bug. Just a simple, stupid, careless bug, that causes the car to misread kilometers per hour per minute as miles per hour per minute and accelerates the car too fast on an icy road. Once again, the automaker will be sued. How can they be certain no such bug exists? The experience of history (e.g. the

402:

good inertial sensors, not to mention that the device would likely never be intoxicated or talking on a cell phone like some idiots do (though perhaps it could be turn up broken). Then given the data gathered from the sensors, said data must be processed appropriately to secure guidance. No sweat there, what with today's cheap computing power -- of course, it is a software nighmare.

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behind trees or other visual obstructions). When an externally generated surprise occurs, the auto/auto will generally react in a manner similar to that of a highly experienced and talented professional driver (while staying within the law and not endangering others), since those driving rules and manners are exactly those contained within its control system.

724:

old-fashioned today's car will look to people in a few decades. BTW, the term "Robot" in itself is beginning to wear thin, don't you think? I like the name, that's why I didn't change it. You can add redirects, change things around, whatever. Just note that there are many links pointing here, and that this has been accepted so far, so is probably not too bad.

1113:

entire system is united and in constant communication and can dynamically adapt to situations (ex. Traffic "overseer" computers will redirect cars away from a problem automatically and instantaneously). This would certainly require a complete overhaul of not only cars, but also all traffic systems (highways, rules, signals, workers, intersections).

1691:

forget that if there was some small glitch in the operating program of the vehicle that causes it to not stop when an unexpected obstruction comes i the way, it would become glaringly obvious during the test runs. Then, the computer and mechanical engineers would check the car again to see what caused the glitch and would fix it.--

1635:) would suggest that they can not. Will automakers take this risk? And finally, consider what happens if there are thousands of such accidents, even if these accidents are a bit more rare for driverless cars than for human-driven cars. How many billions will be required to defend the auto makers against the lawsuits? ---- 1796:

appliances, but there are many machines adored by enthusiasts world-wide; this future of driverless cars obviously means they will be banned. But to what end? Does this mean every last manually-controlled car will be scrapped? What of the countless irreplaceable vehicles that don't deserve such a cruel fate?

1800:

even an artform in some cases, people whom; as a by-product of this life-style, are very knowledgable, very disciplined and very passionate about road safety. What happens to these people? Are they doomed to a life of misery because the majority of the general public don't care about such frivolous ideas?

267:"will people still be allowed to drive, when an automated system will be able to do it more safely?" Not a valid question in my opinion. You are applying present-day concerns to a future scenario. If the automated system is advanced enough to offer great advantages over driving manually, most people won't 1811:

Finally, what about the untold amount of roads that are placed well away from civilization? There are many roads that have no traffic and no pedestrians? Would human-controlled cars be banned from ALL roads, including those rarely seen? Or would the world be split up into zones where human controlled

1661:

The shame is that the vehicle would be reducing the likelyhood of such accidents, but the blame would be on the vehicle, since it would be it's own operator. With auto companies having far deeper pockets than individual drivers, the estates of any victims would go after the auto companies. Of course,

1616:

Before you leave, consider helping this article. The liability issue has to be addressed in the article, and we need some who is familiar with the literature to point us towards some published sources that discuss the difficulty that auto makers are expected to face if they try to put driverless cars

1598:

Nuujinn is right, as far as Knowledge (XXG) goes. Knowledge (XXG) is very careful to avoid publishing original research. We only report material that is found in the literature. Every word in Knowledge (XXG) must be attributed to a reliable source. It doesn't even matter whether it is correct or not;

1076:

If you're old enough to form an opinion on automated driving then you'll unlikely ever have to worry about giving it up in your practical lifetime. Of course driving your own car will be as antiquated as horseback riding is now in ~100 years probably, but that's not really something to keep you from

1039:

Also, most individuals LOVE to own a car. I work on my truck every week. I like changing the oil and the filter, tweaking the engine to perform better, etc. I like to see how hard I can turn on a sharp corner and I like to speed when nobody is around. See? No personal cars is BORING. Automation gives

962:

Do THESE "no mores" constitute the "benefits" of car-ownership and car-driving that FEW Americans will give up ? Well, you believe that and I have some prime ocean-front property for you here in AZ (Chuckle, chuckle). Think of it as "democratized personal transportation", equally available to all :

932:

Ah, but we are not talking about the technology being capable, but rather about humans being willing to accept it. I think that Americans, at least, are so enamored with their cars that they won't have all turned in their keys in the net 40 years. Heck, it looks like telephones were invented sometime

869:

would probably tell you that "you can have my car when you pry the keys from my cold, dead fingers." Similarly, I doubt Germans would give them up. Heck, Finns, Norwegians and Swedes would probably hate to lose one of the ways of getting around their countries too. The "no personal cars at all" is so

1705:

Of course, most bugs would be found, but the odds are assuredly against a bug-free (and also, hack-free) system. The real world is also a notoriously unpredictable place and, having written a lot of code that I thought was bug-free and that passed all of its testing, I know that no testing regime is

1551:

Yes, I did, and please accept my apologies if that was offputting, but please understand why I did so. If, as you say (and I do not disagree since there's no reliable way to estimate how good a complex technology will be 5-10 year out) the numbers are not credible, what we need here is some reliable

1537:

Yes, 6 sigma is desirable. Are you measuring it in miles, km, trips or hours? Are you counting fatalities, injuries or incidents? Depend how you measure, today's vehicles do not meet that standard. See my paper at www.enviroteach.com/social_ramifications.pdf for some interesting statistics. I'll add

1112:

Surely there should be mention of constant synchronization and communication between driverless cars and traffic protocols, signals, and workers which would obviously be required for a fully driverless car traffic system. I think this would be the next step up from simple driverless cars, where the

977:

First, the technology needs to become cheap, simple and reliable. Then, the car makers need to produce several million of these cars. Meanwhile everyone needs to agree that it's a good idea. Oh, and keep in mind that cars can easily stay on the road for 10 years after they roll off the assembly line

626:

In the present century -- beginning with vehicle drivers, machine operators, service and hospitality workers -- virtually everyone who personally performs a definable manual task -- will be replaced by autonomous machines. This will reach well into the fields of surgery, dentistry and chiropractic,

349:

I am revamping this page to sound less like a SciFi fantasy page, and more of a serious summary of the state-of-the-art of all the efforts in the field. This will take several weeks, and most probably you will not recognize the page once I am done, but that is just what the Knowledge (XXG) is about,

96:

General Motors is preparing to launch a revolutionary self-driving system on the 2008 Opel Vectra. The car will be capable of piloting itself at speeds up to 60 mph in heavy traffic without any input from the driver sitting behind the steering wheel. GM claims the system, called Traffic Assist, will

1881:

Responding, increased automation could cause decrease in relevant skills in a significant percentage of the population. However, automated cars with human driver controllability may not yield all the listed, expected benefits of fully automated cars. I think the question of licensing for being able

1799:

There are many questions and concerns for those of us who's hobby, nevermind livelihood would be seriously compromised by such a system. There's also the issue of those that love to drive, tend to be GOOD at it. People who drive cars they love, people who care very much about driving as a skill, or

1196:

Traffic synchronization should be solved within the autonomous auto and not outside it, preferably without computer-only communication protocols. With action/reaction algorithms combined with traffic monitor systems that broadcast information about traffic conditions, an auto/auto should be able to

397:

To begin with, it is an error in nomenclature : Every vehicle has some kind of driver, human or machine. Until a better term is found, we should term such a unit an "autonomous vehicle for public roadways", AVPR, perhaps ?. With that settled for the moment, what are the attributes required of any

132:

In the actual article, "Miracle" = 0 times. "Marvel" = one mention, "seeming marvel" - sarcastic if anything. "First person" - Where? "Italy" - Twice, "Italian" - 3 times, it so happens that a lot is going on there. For comparison, "USA" is mentioned in that exact spelling 6 times, as "US" 7 times.

1795:

I have an issue that has apparently gone completely unnoticed, and that is the fact that there are many people such as I who are repulsed by the idea of a car that drives itself. The fact is: some people enjoy driving! Then there are the cars we have now. Granted, many of them are little more than

1690:

First of all, crashes like this wouldn't be a little more rare, they would be a lot more rare. In fact, they wold be a complete anomaly. A computer driven car has a much more quick reaction time them a human and can be programed to give full attention to its surroundings immediately. Secondly, you

1155:

Observed side-by-side, the only way that a manual auto should able to be distinguished from an auto/auto (except for the absence of the steering wheel) is that the latter drives more precisely, more politely, more safely and always operates within the law (when the speed-limit signs are not hidden

1061:

I personally think that a person should not be restricted in his/her ability to drive a car without automation. I think that would be seriously unreasonable, saying that under certain situations you would not be able to drive the car unless it was operating in full-auto or in some kind of partial

904:

While I am certain there will be technology that enables it (as there has been for airplanes for some time), I cannot imagine everyone giving up control of their cars in the next 30 or 40 years. If you expand it to 65 years, well, that's beyond the expected lifetime of most people reading this....

824:

Hello, I am very new to editing wikis and kind of wonder as to how to get info about the global recession’s impact on driverless cars for the consumer market. I personally, would love to own a driverless car and really hope that, in my lifetime, I will get to own one. I can also imagine that these

271:

to drive by hand, and they won't care whether it is allowed. The question sounds like someone in 1900 asking "Will people still be allowed to ride their horses on motorways?". Of course, some people will still want drive purely for leisure, just like people still ride horses today. They will do

183:

So much discussion about a 3-line paragraph! If anyone doesn't like the tone of the article, why not edit it for tone, POV, etc? It isn't locked, this is the wikipedia, just go ahead! I promise to review for accuracy, it is on my watchlist. If I have time later today I might even do it myself, now

1863:

There seem to be lots of misunderstandings here - as a mechatronic engineer, I can clarify most of them: robotic cars could drive alongside human cars, but it just wouldn't be as efficient; EMP is not practical, especially not for cars; and finally, human drivers trying to evade bans would really

1630:

Consider this: Suppose a driverless car kills a kid because it didn't notice the child's mother waving, screaming and running into the road. Something horrible has happened. Who pays for this mistake? The manufacturer of the vehicle will be sued for many millions of dollars. How can an auto maker

1285:

Besides I would not mind, driving myself the extreme miles, V.gr: from home to the highway entrance, and from selected exit to my job´s parking lot (and in the return trip) if I can type my laptop, watch TV, etc, the rest of the way. That is the must difficult miles, at both extremes of the trip.

950:

I saved the best for last : ECONOMIC Flexibility, as in Consumer Credit. The automated auto will NOT be owned by consumers, just as few of us own now own airplanes, but we still fly when necessary. Even now, electric vehicles would be much more popular if one did not have to purchase the storage

401:

It seems fairly straightforward to me : Vision, Hearing and Seat-of-Pants. We could perhaps throw in a generous dollop of "common sense" for good measure. The sensory and other attributes could be easily improved over that available from human drivers, like 360-deg vision and hearing and really

327:

From what I've heard, it's unfeasible for a computer to drive among human drivers at present, but if human driving were eliminated, it'd be easy for a computer network to control all cars, and at higher safe speeds. this is because of the unpredictability aspect of human drivers even at the lower

310:

I have just read the page about the driverless car. The issue of the driverless car is whether it should be a private car, or a public vehicle. As a private car it solves very few car problems. As a public vehicle, used as a taxi, it solves many car problems. It leads the way to better road space

1543:

Nuujinn rolled back my updates, so I will not contribute further to this article. The present version on WP states that driverless vehicles could save 41,000 lives per year, which implies that all drivers can be replaced, all traffic fatalities eliminated and somehow several thousand additional

1034:

Okay, look. The guy who said that few will want a fully automated car is correct. Driving is FUN. I like to drive, and so does almost everyone I know. Honestly, listen to yourself. Will many people really want a car that does everything, perfectly, and you just sit there? I know you do, but most

927:

Back in 1968, we were astonished to find that a group in Minneapolis/Honeywell in St Pete, FL, had developled a silicon intergrated circuit containing (now get this) ONE-THOUSAND BITs << BITS, that is !!! Honeywell declined to support them any further, "It was obviously impractical and of

565:

At the touch of a button, the available Advanced Parking Guidance System can parallel park the LS or back into a parking space (not shown) with just a little brake work by the driver. First, position the LS in front of the parking space, then use the navigation screen to select the parallel park

1996:

Until such time as the regulations are made and approved, no driverless car can comply with them. You can't comply with something that doesn't exist. This may, in fact, have the opposite effect of raising the issues of whether a self-parallel-parking car can legally be operated, since it is not

1803:

If driverless cars are introduced to the public at any point in the future, than regular automobiles will HAVE to be banned; otherwise the whole purpose of the idea is defeated. Unless driverless cars can somehow share the road with human-controlled cars, which is a much higher safety risk than

958:

Of course, one MAY own his private auto/auto if he has that kind of bucks and no place better to put them. For the rest of us : No more car payments, no more car washing & maintenance, no more car insurance, no more tires, no more batteries, no more transmissions, no more speeding or other

622:

It seems to me that the discussion here needs to be very much broadened and generalized. Those who can think only in terms of their own individual short lives will not be much interested and are invited to "tune-out". Those interested in the "future of history", so to speak, should listen-up.

331:

Re: unattended refuelling Two systems have operated in South Africa for a number of years as a response to the high level of fuel theft and petro-card fraud. BP Fuelmaster and e-fuel, operated by AFS systems. Both are RFID based. No chip in the tank filler nozzle. No fuel. The fuel dispensed is

323:

Public or private ownership is a mere technicality and not an important issue in my opinion. Driverless cars will allow for a much more competitive rental and pay-on-demand market than is the case with manually driven vehicles. If a city council fails to provide a public driverless car system,

487:

For navigation through congested traffic in addition to laser and radar technologies in my opinion infra-red vision or thermal vision can be very useful.Since on road the atmospheric temperature will be constant for a particular instant of time while the temperature of vehicles moving near to

723:

The naming has been discussed here before, with several acronyms suggested. When I revamped this article, it was on the basis of a pre-existing one, which had this name "driverless car". Now it is odd, and cumbersome, but it is the cute tradition of "horseless carriage". Think how quaint and

882:

You are now 9 years old and live in Kitty Hawk. Orville and Wilbur have just landed. In twenty-five years, you will be an airline pilot flying the DC-3. Is that "'nuff said" for you ?? If not, it is now 40 years later and your son has just landed on the moon. "One giant step ...

146:

Sam, I'm with you on this. I couldn't find any use of Italy in the first-person either. However, I have just edited out "some brave souls", which was rather POV, and removed the paragraph explaining the order of discussion (which would be useful in a magazine article, but not here).

954:

The auto autos will be owned by a transportation utility (public or private), like the streets and highways they run on -- after all, few of us generate our own electricity, but granted that a good number of us in rural settings still provide our own water, waste disposal and gas.

1807:

And what of motorsports? That will be the last bastion of human controlled cars, surely that won't be outlawed? Still hardly practical for any driver to go do, there are not that many race tracks in the world and not much room left to build more. And that's not factoring in cost.

441:

Re : Nomenclature - This is NOT 1905 : We need nomenclature which cuts thru the cute and distinguishes what appear to some as minor differences. Beware of "Gresham's Law of Information", simlar to Gresham's Law of Money. Thus, the case is already lost -- but no surprise there.

1131:

The best way to impede the transition from manual to autonomous automobiles is to insist that all of those features -- which ultimately may prove wise or even necessary -- must be fulfilled at some arbitrary deadline date. Initially, the only features necessary are

1556:) that asserts that. Now, you have a source a 1995 study that show that autonomy reduces accident rates in commuter trains, but that doesn't treat driverless cars. To draw a conclusion here that because that is true, the same might be true for cars, is to engage in 1479:

I feel like the article is missing a section which accurately describes the huge gulf between safe, reliable autonomous vehicles and current technology. Specifically, I'm thinking of the liability issue and the more general issue of "unexpected problems" and

765:

The key to all of this is the development of a device which can analyze a motion picture of 360-o in azimuth in real time against cognitive criteria analogous to but rather enhanced over that within the capability of the typical human vehicle operator.

509:

However, until the technology drives away all manually controlled vehicles, vision based on other methods will be of positive, but limited value. It would only help to prevent those nasty fog-pileups -- absolute prevention requires the absence of manual

775:

Thus, a general purpose device would be employed for the task, with autos not expected to carry all or even a significant part of the original development cost. He who gets there first will have a lion by the tail economically and probably militarily!

1662:

if the insurance companies examine the costs and the savings and then decide to put themselves into the victim-operator equation as they currently do with human operated vehicles, the issue might be avoided. Should be interesting to see what happens. --

1459:

page, it seems that everything on this page under the "Driver-assistance" section should actually be moved to the Intelligent car page. It isn't especially relevant to this page anyway. The name isn't even grammatically correct; there shouldn't be a

1815:

There are many points to this side of the issue, but I thought I'd bring a few of them up. Sure, wikipedia is a place of facts and this is all just opinion, but I rightly believe it's a valid opinion that ought to be at least discussed.

933:

between 1849 and 1876, but didn't end up in nearly every home until the 1950s. While the bleeding edge of technology moves very fast, full integration takes a very long time, especially something so ingrained in American culture. (The

1169:

Autonomous means autonomous : That is, the bells and whistles, the important advantages of LIMITED local and central external control will only gradually emerge as fewer and fewer manual vehicles are present in the mix of traffic.

499:

Generally, no special technology beyond that which enables the machine to perceive its surroundings with the same acuity as a human would is needed -- ordinary light is plenty -- except to cope with the presence of fog, smoke,

740:

I agree with you very much on the term "robot" -- NASA pretty well ruined that term by calling a "remote-controlled arm" a "robot arm", for what reason other than widely institutionalized thoughtlessness I cannot imagine.

959:

traffic violations, including DUI, no more road rage, no more fender benders, no more crashes while using the cell-phone or not -- go ahead and take a nap, work, read, compute or whatever you please while on your way.

1564:

such as a magazine, newspaper, journal, etc, we can probably use that as well, but I would ask that you note that you're the author in the edit summary or here on the talk page so as to avoid the appearance of a

519:

Of course, the machine will continually see and analyze a 360-o picture with recent history and will never be distracted by, say, operating a cell phone -- so the overall result will far exceed human capability.

971:

is out there now, and people can lease normal autos, I think the idea that car ownership will cease in addition to human operation of the vehicles ignores how inherently conservative the normal person actually

734:

Yes, the name has the quality you suggest -- but on the other hand, it is misleading : The car still of necessity has a driver -- It is a "HUMAN-Driver-less car". The "horseless carriage" truly was "less the

559:

Yesterday, I saw their commercial on TV. With limited driver input (selecting one corner of the parking spot and tapping the brakes), the newest Lexus LS will perform parallel parking for you. I am amazed!

1492:"In the wake of Toyota's much publicized recall for unintended acceleration, the idea of conceding control of our cars to software seems about as sane as letting a Roomba vacuum cleaner do brain surgery." 633:

It will also change the face of economics and require us to look again at what have been long held to be immutable "laws" concerning the effective application of capital and the circulation of money.

240:

tested an unattended refueling system for gas stations. That is, the car would pull up to the pump and the pump would insert the nozzle in the gas tank of the vehicle. They had also already deployed

1993:

What the law did is to charge the DOT to come up with regulations regarding the operation of driverless cars in Nevada, and to authorize cars that comply with such to be driven on Nevada highways.

448:

All any of this does is to remove our abundant human frailties of all sorts, thru and including road rage, from the surface transport equation. Some will miss the anonymity of the manual system.

630:

It is the Third Industrial Revolution and, like its predecessors, will have far-reaching effects upon the social fabric of man, some -- or even most -- completely unimaginable at this time.

1864:

easily stand out and would be reported by the robotic cars. As a personal opinion, I would think that human motorsport would eventually be perceived as being similar to the paralympics.

849:

I chuckled when reading the "no personal cars" at all. I doubt that Americans would be willing to give up the feeling of freedom that comes with car ownership. While people who live on

995:

in every state - fifty years later. Thus, I don't think it unreasonable to assume that despite the obvious benefits listed in your "no mores", it just won't happen in our lifetimes. --

168:) motorway". In who's case? There are a few instances of this in this article where you need to read to get context rather than do a search and count the number of times a word occurs. 472:

I've added a "In film" section as a starting point. If anyone knows of more examples of driverless cars in fiction, please add 'em in and edit the section title accordingly... --

1017:

I stumbled across this and am amused that 5 years later, we still have no driverless cars on the market, despite our wishful friend, who thought they'd be all over the place. --

769:

When applied to an automated vehicle, such a device would analyze the picture for steerage and for the text upon street & roadway signage. What else is there to be done ?

408:

Given the present state-of-the-art together with a rock-hard G*O*A*L to do so (translation : MegaKiloBucks), we ought to be able to demonstrate one in a year or two. Why not ?

293:

In 1900 there were no motorways, but that doesn't matter because you can still ride a horse on a public road, and it should stay that way. i think this will be much the same

420:

The problem is in the "Seat of pants" part, as you call it, or the "micro-navigation" as I call it in the article. I have yet to really write that part, watch this space.

488:

driverless car will be having different temperature,therefore utilizing this phenomena our vehicle can recognize its surroundings for the presence vehicles and humans.

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I removed "AGV" and noted why. I am also currently working on the "autonomous robot" and "robot" articles. I put links to them in this article since they are related.

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crew), when he was 36. Of course, 75 years was longer than the average male lifespan in the US at the time (though my own grandfather was 4 in 1903 and died in 1983).

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Many people will insist on driving by hand, probably for decades after it becomes common. Ask anyone over 60 how often they use cell phones, the internet or a PDA. --

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utilisation by allowing people to conveniently use buses for the corridor part of the journey, and the driverless car for the local networked part of the journey.

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Well, someone who was 9 years old in 1903 couldn't have been piloting a DC-3 in 1928, since they hadn't been built yet. It would have been at best 1935, when the

244:, making for hands-free electronic payment. Not sure what happened with the unattended refueling, the technology does exist, though it may not be profitable. -- 951:

batteries up front and then maintain them and then replace them : The gasoline and electric vehicles thus do NOT now operate on a level playing field.

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The article is quite frankly a mess, lots of OR and unsourced assertions. Just a head's up that I'll be starting a major cleanup in the next day or so.

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One might want to look up a recent article in the IEEE Spectrum about the guidance system found in the common housefly: VERY marvelous and VERY simple.

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icon. After pressing the OK button on the screen, simply remove your hands from the steering wheel and regulate the vehicle’s speed by using the brake.

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This reads like a report someone did for school. There's a lot of 'miracle' and 'marvel' type words, as well as odd first-person references to Italy.

210:"Before or after the attendant refuels it, the car would print out the owner's credit card or checking account number in order to pay for the fuel." 1319:

I removed it, since it had no sources, constituted OR and was predictive of what might happen when/if driverless cars come into general usage. --

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Even earthmovers, trenchers, pipeline laying equipment -- all are open to this technique, not to mention war machines of every conceivable sort.

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I preffer not to invent further nomenclature, the space is crowded enough. This name is in the wonderful tradition of the "horseless carrige".

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I propose that this driver less cars will be electric, and maybe with batteries recharged "in route". Stop burning co2 generating fuels. --

830: 1522:(that is, one error in every 1,000,000 miles) levels of reliability and safety, for a long time. The article needs to mention this. ---- 870:

pie-in-the-sky silly that I am tempted to remove it or slap a POV tag on this article. It simply won't happen in any of our lifetimes. --

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in 100 years you will be flying your own spaceship in full manual mode. unless those 'green' fanatics expand their operations to space.

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Now you've gotten even less realistic. You're positing the development of an entirely new business model for transportation. Will the

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Umm find click the 'average drivers' link on the page... it directs to joe bloggs. How come? | Spelling error or just purpose? --: -->

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Just put an RFID tag inside where the nozzel goes in and it can automatically identify the car and deduct from a debit account.

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Habap - what about the quote: "Either a desert (free of any human or human-made obstacle), or a clearly-marked, well-painted (

1518:. Driverless cars can't deal with any truly unusual situations in the real world, and because of this, they will not achieve 928:

little commercial value". Let's see, where are we now on semiconductor memories ? Many, many megabytes, I have lost track.

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Please give more accurae references than "recent" for any article you want anyone to read and consider. A URL would be nice.

1213: 991:. They first went into production vehicles in 1956, but it wasn't mandatory anywhere in the US until 1984 and still isn't 921:

I cannot find the quotation I wanted to use from IBM's Tom Watson, Sr, but maybe this one will do (From IBM/Wikipedia) --

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This is a great article. However, people might be afraid to click on the link if address is hidden. The url address is

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Thus, the first step toward this is going into production now. Might be useful to incorporate this into the article. --

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Paulos, John (September 2010). ""Human Drivers: The people behind the wheel are the most dangerous part of driving"".

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I feel that the article needs some discussion of the limits of the technology, or else the article seems biased. ----

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sources, except in limited cases. So the short version is that I hope you'll stick around and help us out with this.

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During the transition period, auto/autos may be able to snitch on manual autos being operated outside the law.

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P.S. since you're obviously interested in Knowledge (XXG), why don't you create yourself a username? Check out

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the evolution of "stubs" into a collection of comments, and eventually into a serious encyclopedic article.

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The Nevada law did not authorize driverless car operation in Nevada; rather, it specifically forbade it.

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Nice thought, but it is for the Sensors, not the Micro-Navigation. More on Micro-Navigation coming soon.

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young, old (like me), fit or disabled -- How otherwise does one who can no longer drive get around ?

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this on special tracks however and not on the main transport corridors that take people from A to B.

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LOL! Do you really think that by the time driverless cars have arrived it will still be necessary to

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I've gone ahead and tagged the section. There needs to be a well-sourced paragraph that talks about

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won't. Yes, it would be safer, but the possibility of an accident is part of what gives driving its

1922: 1757:. Please limit discussion to improvement of this page. You may wish to ask factual questions about 1485: 1067: 918:

I beg your pardon for the date error. I should have recognized you as a hard-core doubter, sorry.

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http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/12955/how-will-self-driving-cars-change-transportation/

462:. Alot of other future mechanics-in-development articles have sections on fiction thats why.-- 1869: 1781: 1580: 1465: 1403: 1325: 866: 607:

Because I am personally aware of more material for these sections, and intend to add it soon.

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were available in 1971, but 35 years later there are still people who don't have one.) --

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The benefits of autonomous vehicles has been greatly understated. The following is from

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Whatever, next comes the Matrix. Just doing my part to push mankind to singularity. --

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types of projects are first in line to get scraped when the giants need to save money.

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first flew. Now, 1969 was 66 years after the Wright's flight, so our 75-year-old man

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Why heve so many "this article or section is incomplete" signs all over this page?

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So what are you saying? What can the article do to better represent this issue? -

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So, I stand by my statement. "It simply won't happen in any of our lifetimes." --

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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vehicles are allowed? After all, not everybody lives in a crowded city center.

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of 10 years to the year the last non-automatic car rolls off the assembly line.

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Does anyone have any information regarding the begining of the AGV Concept.

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debited to the appropriate account. No paper, no slips, no cash= no fraud.--

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a credit card number? And why would the petrol station bother employing an

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Knowledge (XXG) is not a place for discussions. 22:55, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

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Why not create a username for yourself? That way we can recognize you.

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On purpose. It was simply "joe bloggs" and them someone "improved" it.

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Should there be a fiction section? With examples such as the cars in

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getting out of bed. Your ford will be there for some time to come.

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the section added about mining - is this relevant to the article??

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http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/spyshots/208774/opel_vectra.html

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Let the Robot Drive: The Autonomous Car of the Future Is Here

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for Knowledge (XXG), it only matters whether some authority

225:? Surely if a car can drive itself it can refuel itself too. 779:

Will it be China or India -- not likely Iceland or Iran.

545:". Clearer. I am also working on an article by that name. 761:

Why Should Automated Autos cost more than Manual Autos ?

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http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/09/google-automated-cars/

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2) They shall move their passengers swiftly AND safely.

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that I understand what the complaining is about - but

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Human driven "extreme miles" at both ends of the trip

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I think a seperate article should be made within the

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Impact of the global recession on projects like this?

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http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00020814.htm

1488:, but I'm not sure where to add it to this article: 1139:

1) Auto/autos shall be compatible with manual autos;

627:as indeed it already has done to a limited extent. 1363:http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-10042320-76.html 857:may find owning a car a hindrance, someone out on 1361:Does Anthony Levandowski's Pribot merit mention? 618:Third Industrial Revolution : Autonomous Machines 483:One more optional technology for micro navigation 1939:Wired has done a great series on this subject: 1958:Navigating the Legality of Autonomous Vehicles 978:(I've had each of mine for 9 years), so add a 829:Hopefully never :) driverless cars are boring 541:I've changed the term "Micro-Navigation" to " 101:I, personally, doubt it. Moved it over here. 8: 1428:Remove chat (Discussion... section) and POV 1242:, ... should be granted their own article. 1963:Five Reasons The Robo-Car Haters Are Wrong 1948:Mapping the Road Ahead for Autonomous Cars 398:device proposed to implement an AVPR ? 1538:a section on liability. ---- Tyler Folsom 1425:Check for science-fantasy and predictions 895:have a son born in 1930 (like the entire 704:This item needs conversion to English. 2011: 1431:Add DARPA competitions and implications 692:autonomous vehicle is robot, dont you? 2037: 2026: 555:Lexus Advanced Parking Guidance System 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 688:Why don't you will name "Robot Car" ? 583:This article or section is incomplete 7: 1451:Misplaced section: Driver-assistance 328:speeds necessary for their safety. 2036:Cite has empty unknown parameter: 24: 1308:Where is the history about this? 1953:Autonomous Cars Through the Ages 1732: 1008:Knowledge (XXG):Contributing FAQ 678:similar to the driverless cars. 29: 801:Elminiating driving as a sport? 1701:22:00, 13 September 2011 (UTC) 1000:18:30, 17 September 2006 (UTC) 942:19:54, 14 September 2006 (UTC) 910:12:40, 14 September 2006 (UTC) 793:) 01:41, August 24, 2007 (UTC) 755:) 02:37, August 29, 2007 (UTC) 718:) 01:43, August 24, 2007 (UTC) 536:16:25, 16 September 2006 (UTC) 1: 1978:18:22, 11 February 2012 (UTC) 1931:08:27, 26 December 2011 (UTC) 1745:for general discussion about 1056:08:38, 16 December 2007 (UTC) 612:08:47, 13 December 2006 (UTC) 602:02:25, 13 December 2006 (UTC) 357:10:36, 16 February 2006 (UTC) 1912:15:48, 8 December 2011 (UTC) 1892:18:36, 24 January 2012 (UTC) 1874:13:14, 10 October 2011 (UTC) 1786:23:25, 9 November 2011 (UTC) 1716:18:03, 2 November 2011 (UTC) 1645:07:10, 17 January 2011 (UTC) 1586:18:43, 16 January 2011 (UTC) 1532:22:32, 10 January 2011 (UTC) 1506:16:30, 5 November 2010 (UTC) 1470:09:35, 11 October 2011 (UTC) 1385:22:16, 16 January 2011 (UTC) 1352:09:24, 10 October 2010 (UTC) 1296:06:23, 1 November 2010 (UTC) 1272:06:23, 1 November 2010 (UTC) 1226:Dual mode transit - monorail 1087:21:08, 4 November 2009 (UTC) 839:13:48, 3 November 2009 (UTC) 649:01:18, 6 February 2007 (UTC) 578:12:32, 23 October 2006 (UTC) 550:23:05, 11 October 2006 (UTC) 393:What is a "Driverless Car" ? 193:09:19, 18 October 2006 (UTC) 152:11:51, 12 October 2006 (UTC) 138:22:59, 11 October 2006 (UTC) 1331:22:44, 15 August 2010 (UTC) 1234:. Monorail systems such as 1102:22:35, 9 January 2010 (UTC) 875:13:54, 19 August 2005 (UTC) 729:21:42, 24 August 2007 (UTC) 337:10:36, 12 August 2007 (UTC) 303:22:49, 9 January 2010 (UTC) 285:19:29, 16 August 2005 (UTC) 249:19:29, 16 August 2005 (UTC) 110:Seems to be based on this: 88:Unreferenced rumors from GM 2062: 2007:17:21, 19 March 2012 (UTC) 1759:Self-driving car/Archive 1 1747:Self-driving car/Archive 1 1445:14:24, 1 August 2010 (UTC) 1252:14:17, 14 April 2010 (UTC) 987:Examine, for example, the 383:00:47, 29 March 2006 (UTC) 1484:. I have this quote from 1475:Limits of driverless cars 815:16:06, 18 July 2008 (UTC) 699:16:25, 29 July 2007 (UTC) 665:03:54, 7 March 2007 (UTC) 477:06:50, 17 June 2006 (UTC) 435:06:02, 2 April 2006 (UTC) 342:The Major Revamp underway 119:13:37, 11 July 2007 (UTC) 106:13:33, 11 July 2007 (UTC) 92:68.33.251.127 said that: 1832:04:18, 18 May 2011 (UTC) 1672:20:53, 5 July 2011 (UTC) 1409:21:30, 9 July 2011 (UTC) 1218:12:30, 6 July 2010 (UTC) 1121:00:50, 31 May 2006 (UTC) 1108:Traffic synchronization? 1072:16:42, 11 May 2009 (UTC) 1027:20:27, 6 July 2010 (UTC) 683:23:41, 3 June 2007 (UTC) 467:01:08, 31 May 2006 (UTC) 319:15:19, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC) 276:17:13, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC) 1997:regulated or approved. 492:posted by Amreesh Singh 1494: 1490: 785:comment was added by 710:comment was added by 639:comment was added by 42:of past discussions. 18:Talk:Self-driving car 1749:. Any such comments 1567:conflict of interest 1419:Check for dated info 1315:Social Costs Section 947:--Keep Chuckling -- 2021:Scientific American 1791:Driver subjectivity 1486:Scientific American 915:--Keep Chuckling-- 879:--Keep Chuckling-- 236:Back in the 1990s, 188:just use the wiki! 166:in our case Italian 1970:MakeBelieveMonster 1744: 1357:What about PriBot? 1126:Comment to above - 674:Are the ideas for 205:Unattended fueling 1884:JenniferProkhorov 1859: 1845:comment added by 1822:comment added by 1769: 1768: 1740: 1637:CharlesGillingham 1524:CharlesGillingham 1498:CharlesGillingham 1388: 1371:comment added by 1221: 1204:comment added by 1191: 1177:comment added by 1062:automation mode. 1058: 1046:comment added by 935:first cell phones 867:Detroit, Michigan 794: 756: 747:comment added by 719: 652: 369:Error or Purpose? 85: 84: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 2053: 2046: 2045: 2039: 2034: 2032: 2024: 2016: 1858: 1839: 1834: 1736: 1735: 1729: 1584: 1569:. We can't use 1422:Accuracy of refs 1407: 1387: 1365: 1329: 1220: 1198: 1190: 1171: 1041: 845:No personal cars 780: 742: 705: 676:pilotless planes 670:Pilotless planes 634: 599: 595: 591: 374:find denemark -- 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 2061: 2060: 2056: 2055: 2054: 2052: 2051: 2050: 2049: 2035: 2025: 2018: 2017: 2013: 1988: 1904:165.230.194.245 1899: 1840: 1817: 1793: 1774: 1733: 1693:137.146.175.105 1633:software crisis 1574: 1562:reliable source 1482:AI-completeness 1477: 1457:Intelligent car 1453: 1416: 1397: 1394: 1366: 1359: 1338: 1320: 1317: 1306: 1280: 1259: 1228: 1199: 1172: 1110: 847: 822: 803: 781:—The preceding 763: 706:—The preceding 696:Green2007leaves 690: 672: 658: 635:—The preceding 620: 597: 593: 589: 585: 557: 543:Motion planning 485: 459:I, Robot (film) 454: 395: 371: 344: 207: 126: 124:Tone of article 90: 59: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 2059: 2057: 2048: 2047: 2010: 1987: 1984: 1983: 1982: 1981: 1980: 1967: 1966: 1965: 1960: 1955: 1950: 1945: 1934: 1933: 1898: 1895: 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