Talk:Series of tubes/Archive 1

2663:

to illustrate a valid point seem like OR. The author wants to explain (in simple terms for a generic audience) that when your mail gets delayed by days it is not because your mail was 'delayed by anyone that puts into that tube enormous amounts of material'. He is showing the delay enormous amounts of material travelling on the network can cause to other traffic is measure in something less than seconds, not days. It is hard for the author to properly quote Ted Steven's because Ted Stevens has compound errors in his quotes, and the author is just trying to pick on one of them that is less obvious to the reader.

2380:

wouldn't exactly carry that same impact. (As a side issue, I wouldn't choose the KDE network icon to illustrate this article anyway -- the "tubes" in that icon just look like wires (round and grey), which is the traditional way of depicting networks (that's what pre-Vista Windows used as well, IIRC). The thing about the Vista icon is that it doesn't use wires, it uses clear glass -- almost pneumatic -- tubes, which fits Ted Stevens' metaphor (not to mention John Hodgeman's parody of it!) so well you have to wonder whether the designer had it specifically in mind). --

3312:

forwarding. These could be TCP packets as part of an email transfer or they might be UDP for voice over IP or they may be streaming video. Now he was obviously told about these queues and how congestion slows down traffic but probably didn't know how a queue worked, so someone said "it's like a tube", and that's a very good description. Considering packets spend so much time waiting in these queues before being forwarded, calling the internet a "series of tubes" accurately describes the network.

1777:""His examples...seem pretty weak. First, it’s hard to imagine that NetFlix would really use up so much bandwidth that they or their customers weren’t already paying for....Second, the slow email wouldn’t have been caused by general congestion on the Net....The bottom line? Stevens may have been trying to make a coherent argument. It’s not a great argument, and his examples were poorly chosen, but it’s far from the worst argument ever heard in the Senate." 31: 375:

the safer course would be to let the article remain, and see if anything becomes of it -- if it really becomes a 'watershed moment,' then keep it; if in retrospect it was just a transient social meme, then roll the information into the main Stevens article. But either way, it is by your own admission too early to tell, so therefore I would argue in the strongest possible terms that the article should not be deleted. Not yet, anyway. --

1636:

even appear to understand what the issue is about. No one is 'dumping' info on to the internet and no one is forcing large amounts of info. The issue is that ISPs are charging their customers to provide access but then want to charge other people who are not their customers to enable to connect these other people to their customers at higher priority. No one is forcing or dumping anything. The ISPs customers are

2864:

describe dedicated pathways for services, and clearly there are large corporations who realize that some services can be metered and further profited from. I believe that this man was simply trying to communicate this concept to those who may not understand technical details, and now we have this article, probably generated by those who would prefer such a profit model, lambasting the poor man.

2449: 2444: 2454: 2439: 2434: 3367:

nothing to do with bandwidth. His email is trivial compared to streaming. And while streaming does take up bandwidth, the structure of the internet is pretty good about time-slicing, and his delay wouldn't have been noticeable. So, again, his problem is a poorly configured server, not a bandwidth problem. That's where his understanding is weak.

783:

this article. It certainly does not warrant a mention in the text of the article itself. Note that the article is already linked in the "external links" section, which is where it belongs. Finally, please note that "see also" sections in articles are reserved for wikilinks that are not already contained in the article text. Thanks. ·

2401:

that the interest in the icon was due more to the fact that it is Windows Vista and thus is prominent. (Of course, as regards Knowledge (XXG) editors, who are probably a different demographic than the general population, Microsoft may not be that prominent - so I'm not sure that makes snense now that I think more about it.)

516:

half as long as this one. "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself" doesn't have its own article "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" doesn't have its own article. I just don't see how anyone serious could say that something like this should have an article. --Jason Catlin

1682:

I object to the unilateral removal of a large portion of text from this article without first discussing it here. I am reverting the removal of text until consensus on this issue can be reached (if anything posts on this talk page in the past support inclusion of the text, but others should comment on it). ·

3699:

The article states "Edward Felten, Princeton University professor of computer science, pointed out the unfairness of some criticisms of Stevens' wording." But the article stops there. I think it'd be worth expanding on this in the article. As it stands, the article has a strong pop-culture bias to

3606:

He probably got the analogy from someone trying to explain what happens when packets are stuck in buffers and delayed. Seeing a queue as a tube full of packets (or "internets") helps convey the idea that congested links will delay packets by buffering them in memory. Having prioritization allows some

3565:

Steven's description of the internet as a series of tubes sounds a lot like what happens as routers put packets in queues while buffering. There's got to be some reputable source out there that makes this point. It's too obvious to those of use that have actually worked on network hardware. I seem to

3280:

is original, not the facts about internet technology. Sources for the section should show that the analysis is valid, not that the technical facts are correct, as all of the current sources do. That the comparison might be "simple" doesn't change that the section puts words in Stevens' mouth. Is this

1681:

Do you disagree that the appearance of series of tubes on The Daily Show goes to the notability of series of tubes? If not, then why do you think it is necessary to remove any context regarding The Daily Show's discussion of it from this article (and, might I add, any references contained therein).

1577:

is overlooking the fact that with the www's growing influence "internet memes" increasingly become worthy of inclusion into encyclopedias, as they become an important part of public perception. btw, I think the lenght and number of contributors to this talk page is itself an indicator for the topic's

1144:

It is a recording of a Senate speech, so any claim to copyright would be dubious at best. (This is not automatically true of all government documents in any jurisdiction, but true of US federal gov't docs.) Additionally, it was first published on the Public Knowledge website, which is published under

782:

The article is about Stevens' incompetence and how it supports a libertarian view of government (quite a stretch in my view, but that's neither here nor there). However, the argument Rockwell is making is only slightly relevant to the internet meme known as "series of tubes," which is the subject of

774:

argued "We ought not to regret that someone with talent stays in the productive private sector and out of the Senate. What we ought to regret is that the dregs who are on top presume to have power over us. Government is always and everywhere all thumbs. That's one reason its responsibilities ought to

715:

Analogy: "The comparison of two things, which are alike in several respects, for the purpose of explaining or clarifying some unfamiliar or difficult idea or object by showing how the idea or object is similar to some familiar one." What you said would have no meaning to somebody not already familiar

639:

This isn't a joke page. This isn't about whats funny or not funny. This has become a quickly spreading symbol of how our government has built a ladder to heaven and consequently can't see the ground it stands on, then of course forgets know how to climb back down. Government stupidity is nothing new,

374:

I think given that it may very well, at some point in the not-too-distant future, be viewed as a significant moment in the debate over public policy and the Internet, if not in the greater debate about the competence of government generally, it would be premature to delete it right now. It seems that

3796:

Some of those references are culturally significant. Not all, but some. And "poorly sourced" is a very strange reason to remove some of these references - the XKCD comic, for example, links directly to the primary source. Is that really fundamentally different than using Comedy Central as the source

2922:

Coupling this with the seemingly awkward truck analogy he is actually making the point that the internet backbone is not public infrastructure like the roads that trucks drive on, but a privately owned facility, although it is perceived as such. And this is exactly why net neutrality legislation is

2408:

Ted Stevens' metaphor. Has there been any mention of that in the media? (I see there was mention on Digg - but what more traditional media?) Otherwise the justification for inclusion (to show an instance of a very large technology company parodying the "series of tubes" metaphor), seems tenuous - it

359:

Because I know someone somewhere will try and get this entry deleted soon, I'll pre-emptively start the discussion now. I think this definitely needs its own article. It's gone far beyond Ted Stevens himself and spread to total meme status. It's also a major event in how the Internet is perceived

248:

When is the last time you clicked on a link to visit a website, and you had to wait four days for the webpage to appear? That's a bit of a colloquial explanation, but no matter how badly the "tubes" are "filled", it doesn't take anywhere near that long unless one of the links is down (the tubes are

125:

He did not have a point. He tried to illustrate that the Internet can be plugged because of data when what he was trying to refer to was a bandwidth issue; the analogy was totally wrong. There was a good explanation in this article but someone took it down. What is sad and tragic is that people with

3478:

Hey everybody, I just edited this page to include Digimon as a 'reference'. However, it is not actually a reference, and I don't have any real sources for it, because there are no sources. I could ask a friend to write an article about this, upload it to a file hosting website, and place a citation

3024:

I'm not sure that this particular phrase is notable for an article all its own. While certain phrases like "jump the shark" have cultural connotations that can be applied to different aspects, this phrase is largely used for a singular purpose, which is making fun of how little US politicians know

2918:

While Mr. Stevens is clearly out of touch with how email works, the tube analogy is spot on. In the context of net neutrality a low level view of the infrastructure is in order and a large junk of fiber optic cables grouped together sure looks like a series of tubes. The article could even have a

2833:

He was the lead computer science expert witness for the Department of Justice in the Microsoft antitrust case, and he has testified in other important lawsuits. He has testified before the Senate Commerce Committee on digital television technology and regulation, and before the House Administration

2689:

John Hunter (fictional, "conservative-liberal" gubernatorial candidate for Liberty City State) references "series of tubes" on Public Liberty Radio (PLR) during the "Intelligent Agenda" segment. The full quote is: "The Internet is a series of tubes and pedophiles want to put their genitals through

2662:

This is not by any means original research. Someone who understands networking is explaining for the benifit of everyone why the quote of Ted Steven's under the section of "Partial text of Stevens's comments" is preposterous. I'm sorry if his 'stringing together of statements' in a logical manner

2528:

I agree with you that we are giving him too much credit. (Though I must qualify that by noting that I am not entirely sure to which "him" you are referring. :-)) In particular, I think we are giving the designers of the icons too much credit and that we are giving Microsoft too much credit. I think

2412:

In general (I suppose I should have mentioned this in my initial post), I was motivated to look for a free icon precisely because it is free. The use of the non-free Vista icon at first seemed like a somewhat incidental use. To me it still seems incidental. But, then again, I am not aware of a free

2400:

Yes, I see now how the Crystal Clear network icon could be regarded as wire rather than as tubes, so scratch that idea. I had not until now considered that the interest in the icon was due to Microsoft's use (whether intentionally or inadvertently) of Ted Stevens' metaphor. I'd initially considered

1635:

This is OT but actually I personally don't get why people are concentrating on the 'tubes' part. Yes it's a bit dumb but there are much bigger problems with his apparent understanding. His apparent lack of understanding of e-mail is one thing which we already mention but more importantly he doesn't

1396:

Okay I concede my point LOL. I guess the possibility of wikipedia ending up as a dumping ground for thousands of internet "memes" in the future is looking ever more likely. Of course, thats not really wikipedia's fault, its everyones fault for making them important. Anyway, the consensus is clear

3204:

Like the man above me, notability doesn't expire. Also, if this was merged, we'd sorrowfully lose all the detail, compressing it into a mere sentance. That's not Knowledge (XXG)'s mission. Knowledge (XXG)'s goal is to provide bountiful data for anything notable, and Ted Stevens' comment was indeed

3071:

and society bears the cost of their incompetence. This page is a shining example of such an imbalance: those with the knowledge have no power and the man with the power had no knowledge. On several occasions I have sent people to this page to illustrate the challenges people in authority face when

2732:

His recent death has made me wonder...what was the context of the original speech? It's a response to an amendment, but I wonder about the circumstances. I'm sure it wasn't some Mr. Smith like Filibuster, but was it at a committee hearing or what? Some details would be nice. Thanks if you can

2578:

This: "both AT&T and Verizon are major financial contributors to Ted Stevens political campaign." isn't entirely correct. When I read that, it seems to imply that the companies themselves are major financial contributors. If you actually go to the source linked and scroll to the bottom you see

2379:

I'd have thought that the main reason the icon is of interest in the article is that a Very Large and Famous Company has chosen to use Ted Stevens' metaphor in the icons of the OS installed on the vast majority of computers. Whilst I don't doubt we could find many Free icons which use tubes, that

2204:

has a new game called "Qasalan Expellibox" which is a drop game (a game where you randomly drop a ball (in this case, a scarab) and it bounces off of pegs and lands in a prize box and you get said prize), and if you come back to it too soon before you can play it again (you can only play it once a

1213:

the t-shirt links have been here since the beginning of the article, which would kind of go against your statement that it is "knock off stuff". it's part of what makes it a fun thing. but fads seem to be a big deal with you guys. either have the section on the internet stuff, or just take it out.

297:

Why are we looking for explanations for what was essentially an attempt by someone who thinks the internet works like snail mail to illustrate his idea? The statement obviously does not have roots in fact and is merely an ill-informed attempt by Stevens to add shock value to his otherwise baseless

3366:

Looking at this. I don't understand the fuss. The terminology is bad but the analogy is similar to piping and bandwidth. The problem I have with his statements is that the delay in his email is more likely a bad configuration of the mail server he was using (government IT strikes again), and had

2502:

I don't really get the point of employing these icons and I do not think either the open source ones or the Microsoft ones are alluding to tubes. To me it makes me think of both an ethernet BUS and a token ring topologies. Furthermore these icons are illustrating a local areas connection to the

1608:

You'd refer to the internet as a series of tubes to if you wanted to illustrate the way in which packets move through the internet and the way they sit in queues in the memory of routers. Right now that's often first-in-first-out, with maybe hundrends of packets lined up ready to be sent out of a

1487:

google hits. I'm generally not one for using google tests or even discussing "notability" at all, but I think it's difficult to argue that series of tubes is non-notable, if that's what you're saying. Series of tubes has been discussed by numerous media sources (some of which are discussed in the

584:

place, but actually a series of traffic-routing points linked by throughways. In any case, the point is that this is supposed to be about the article, and the article doesn't presently clarify just why this is supposed to be so hilarious. If it really is that funny, the article should explain why.

536:

Can somebody please explain why this analogy has received so much ridicule? He's obviously recalling the era of mail tubes, when you'd wrap up an envelope and dump it into a mail tube. The system of mail tubes really wasn't that different from the Internet's system of wires and routers. Yes, it's

515:

I really think that this article as a whole is completely necessary. This was not really an official proclamation of some sort; just an answer to a question. If we want to compare it to other articles in Knowledge (XXG), let me point out the following: "Tear down this wall" has an article about

1889:

The metaphor is what has caught on, not the speech. I agree with what the article says in the intro: "The metaphor became emblematic of the speech (and Stevens's seemingly poor understanding of the Internet)". The article discusses other parts of the speech, but focuses on the tubes metaphor.

1443:

As the article indicates, the incident was reported in the New York Times and Reuters, as well as Wired's blog, and other notable blogs: DailyKos, BoingBoing, and Slashdot. The fact that the Daily Show has referred to the incident on multiple occasions seems to put it in line with any number of

583:

Government suits making laws about stuff they don't understand is nothing new. Anyway, in this case, the fact that he can analogize the Internet to a tube mail system suggests that he has at least enough understanding to get the idea of a "network", i.e. that the Internet isn't just some magical

3311:

No, the context is exactly correct. The internet "fast lanes" that people complain about in the context of net neutrality are implemented at the router level by allowing some packets that might be forced to wait in a congested router's output queue to move to the head of the queue for immediate

1603:

Why would you refer to the internet as a series of tubes?! That's a terrible metaphor! One shouldn't even need to use a metaphor to dumb down an even simpler idea, which is millions of servers and computers connected together. These servers and computers are private property, stored in offices,

1125:

Were they deleted? I just moved them to a separate section, Media, near the bottom of the article. I wanted to put them inline using the audio template, but it conflicted with the cquote template currently in use. So I used a listen template and put it in a separate section. If anyone has a

500:

Everytime some ignorant politician (i.e. Bush) makes a funny comment which a few people latch on to will it become a wikipedia article? In 50 years, will wikipedia be full of "Series of tubes" type idiosyncratic articles? I've proposed a deletion; if a consensus is made to do otherwise I will

364:

The current article is way too short and smacks of Ted Stevens-bashing, which may be fun, but isn't encyclopedic by any stretch. It's been less than a month, it's hard to say that this will stick around. It may be worthwhile at some future point, but for now, it's too short to warrant its own

336:

I think this calls for a random tech support anecdote - My old driving instructor tapped me up for some tech support during a lesson the other day, asking why he only seemed to get emails about once a month and then he got loads of them at once. After going through various possible (technically

2108:

Cool. I used to watch westerns starring him all the time as a kid (early 90s) and when I saw the Daily Show clip, it was a perfect use of his image. The really funny part is that he was a famously articulate and educated person. He was from the town I lived near in NY for a while (wellsville).

1769:

It was inappropriate to have a section devoted to defending the comment, but not have a section explaining the reason the comment was ridiculed. From a technical perspective, the idea that Steven's email delays are due to bandwidth congestion is ABSURD. No expert of which I am aware has ever

1224:

The difference between the link to the song and the link to the t-shirts, for instance, is that one is non-commercial while the other is commercial. Guy's point, I think (and please correct me if I'm wrong), is that Knowledge (XXG) should not engage in marketing t-shirts. This logic does not

273:

I can't speak for the topology of the network driving the Senate's email system, but I would think that if both Senator Stevens and the unnamed member of his staff have addresses @*.senate.gov (I can only assume as much), then it would be entirely possible that the email never even reached the

3295:

It is decidedly original research, and moreover it is long-after-the-fact apologetics. The "fat pipe" talk is accurate, but no non-partisan source would ever agree that what Stevens said was remotely accurate. The mention of router queuing is both extremely inaccurate and disingenuous in this

3241:, the phrase is notable, and the article is a reliable source on information about it. And it does not disrespect American politicians (or the author in particular), but shows up what quite several people saw as a discrepancy between technical knowledge and responsibilities tied to a function 2863:

Keep in mind that he is trying to describe a concept to people who may not yet be knowledgeable enough about the technical details about the internet, and describe what kind of pro-profit models could be established by these internet providers. "Tubes" is just one metaphor that can be used to

2779:

I removed "Stevens' use of the metaphor has been defended by experts in the field." as the last sentence in the top. If someone can cite an expert and what makes them an expert, maybe add it again. I'm an expert, I'm in the field, I think the metaphor relates a naive understanding about the

615:

Simply put, wikipedia isn't a place to editorialise. Maybe you think he does know what he is talking about, but that has no bearing on the article - it should just report the fact that people are mocking this man because they perceive he is making laws about something he knows nothing about

1910:

I agree. Senators give hundreds of speeches, and we can't have articles for them all, or even the notable ones. It's the phrase that has become famous, not the speech. There would be little content in such an article besides the 'series of tubes' business, making the whole move useless.

2624:

I believe that the connection to the subject is in defense of using the tube metaphor because of the existing pipe metaphor. If this is the case then I suggest the the original research tag be removed and the section cleaned up to make this intent clear. Anyone else care to comment?

2807:

It doesn't need defending, in this very article there is a sourced and cited technical analysis of how internet routing works that matches perfectly with what ted stevens said, minus the day delayed e-mail of course. Don't need an expert to confirm facts that are already confirmed.

1158:

I think it should be noted in the article that there is no way that the whole "Internet was sent by my staff I got it yesterday" phrase. This is less know than series of tubes, but makes much less sense and is more likely the source of "people doubting Stevens' knowldge of the 'net"

220: 1640:

access from other people which they are paying their ISP for. But the ISPs also want to be able to charge other people so they connect them to their customers at higher priority. This has nothing to do with large amounts of data being "dumped" or even streaming movies really.

126:

inadequate knowledge or downright ignorance are in charge of regulating an increasingly complex future. It's embarrassing that the most technologically advanced country on earth has to rely on lawmakers who don't have a proper understanding of what they are passing into law.

520:

I think you mean "completely unnecessary". As for the other points - people write about what interests them. yes this introduces a systemic bias, but a better solution than deleting articles is to go and add content to the articles for each of the quotes you mention above.

2535:

So, I guess the options at this point are: Keep the Microsoft icon, use one of the GNOME icons as an addition or as a replacement, or remove the icons altogether. To me, the third option (removal) seems appropriate. Though I'd be okay with the second option (replacement).

450:

The fact that this guy has no idea what is going on, and has any influence what so ever over the state of the internet, makes this wiki-worthy. This is a perfect example of our government in action today, change and lack of it, driven by the lobbying power of telcos.

820:

an appropriate analogy for the internet might be, oh, I don't know... a spiderweb? Ted Steven's position on net neutrality would be like a spider using a weaker silk on 90% of its web while giving 10% of the web super strong silk. The result? the web buys the farm.

93:

I don't know why people ridicule his metaphor because his statement was true, and he was trying to explain to people who probably know less about the internet than he. If someone can come up with a better metaphor than "a series of tubes" then I'd like to hear it.

2529:

that if the main reason that the icon is of interest is because (quoting simxp above) "a Very Large and Famous Company has chosen to use Ted Stevens' metaphor in the icons of the OS installed on the vast majority of computers", then that's a bit of a stretch.

3650:

Stevens had a bad reputation, for other reasons, but his comments makes a lot more sense if commentators were generous enough to assume that an old man said "tubes" when he meant "transistors". If there are RS that make this point, we should cite them.

3737:

NOTE: To anyone who wants to know the song in this video, it's called "Series of Tubes Net Neutrality Dance Mix". I don't know who made it, I found it online. Credit goes to whoever made the song. Please do not request me to give it to you. Thank you."

3607:

packets to move to the head of the "tube", a small VOIP packet, or a small packet from a player in a multiplayer game, would greatly reduce latency while doing little to affect a streaming movie service that can handle potentially seconds of latency.

875:

I'd it sound more like the human digestion system --in fact there's a commercial on these days for some kind of drug that helps relieve digestive problems featuring humanoid figures made out of pipes --or should I say, made out of a series of tubes?

3390:. (Although I do think someone who just realised yesterday that the internet is a series of tubes and not a truck has little hope of understanding the complex economics, technical and political issues surruounding net neutrality in the short term.) 915:

used by United States Senator Ted Stevens, a Republican from Alaska, to describe the Internet in a June 28..." Well it stated as phrase, then was changed to analogy, then was changed to metaphor, and now it's back to phrase again. So what is it?

3479:

to that, but that wouldn't really help wikipedia. Is there anybody who knows what to do in this situation? I think this subject is interesting enough to include it, but I can't think of a way to do that while not breaking any wikipedia rules.

1670:

The actual jokes made on the Daily Show have no relevance whatsoever to this article. The Daily Show's take on things is not crucial, or even particularly helpful to understanding the topic. Having them in the article gives them that status.

1604:

homes, and companies! Not only would this idiot believe you can just call these servers and computers "tubes" that belong to the government, but he would intend to internationally censor the internet! It's not ours. It's the WORLD wide web.

3636:

Was Stevens old enough to have learned his electronics prior to the invention of the transistor? Prior to the use of first transistors, and then integrated circuits, computers, relays, indeed all electronics, did use tubes. They used

3281:

what he meant? The section is an attempt to rationalize his words, rather than represent them accurately. This is what qualifies it as OR. If someone has made this analysis outside of Knowledge (XXG), then the section should stay. --

2458:

But they are not in great resolution. And the labels don't really have anything to do with this article. And there's not much color. However, if Knowledge (XXG) really wants to avoid using non-free media, here are the alternatives.

3050:

Think bigger. This meme is not poking fun at inept American politicians for their specific ignorance of the Internet. Sure, American politicians are pretty uninformed, but they don't have a monopoly on it: consider the so-called

1502:

than that. Finally, regarding "a paragraph or two in the Stevens article", well, we'd have to cut a large portion of the text of this article to squeeze it into a paragraph, and discussing it fully in that article would create

1735:

Did Stevens ever actually end up appearing on the Daily Show? If he didn't, then we should probably remove the statement about him "going to make a rebuttal", because its been six months. If he has, that should be mentioned.

1214:

none of it is more worthy than the other stuff by the criteria you're using. it's all part of the joke in my opinion and i would vote to keep all of it but wikipedia isn't run by my opinion. i think internet fads are fun :)

3115:

I propose this page warrants its own identity and self-preservation. I make no assessment about sharks, rockstars from Mars, misspellings of Internet or rainbows as I have never heard of those (perhaps obscure) memes before

3425:

If I were as old as Stevens I'd like to be forgiven if I used V2 to refer to all ballistic missiles, and V1 to refer to all cruise missiles. To bug my neighbour's kid I always call his android cell phone his "gameboy".

2054:

This isn't strictly speaking required, but I'd like to see the blog entries in the citations referenced a little better, with their titles listed rather than just "Slashdot's take" and so on. You might want to look at

1773:

More to the point, Felton does NOT really give a general technical defense of the comment. In fact he spends the bulk of the article trying "to reconstruct that argument and see if it makes any sense". He concludes:

1421:

recently had his viewers log in and post all kinds of meaningless crap here. So back to the reason I (most recently) proposed deletion: why does this merit anything more than a paragraph or two in the Stevens article?

1165:"Ten movies streaming across that, that internet, and what happens to your own personal internet? I just the other day got...an internet was sent by my staff at 10 o'clock in the morning on Friday, I got it yesterday." 3543: 2205:

day), it tells you "What are you doing?! You can't just dump them in there! It's a series of tubes! Bring that scarab back tomorrow and you can deposit it then." Should this be added to the "other citations" section?

360:

by those in charge as well as how those in charge are perceived on the Internet, and there are tons of verifiable sources for the article out there with more appearing every day thanks to the debates Stevens started.

1182:

Ditto. I don't understand why the "series of tubes" remark, which was obviously just a rubbish analogy, has become so (in)famous when a couple of sentences earlier he claimed someone had tried to send him "an

1075:

Ok, Gravis. So he said "Is a series of tubes" when he should have said "It's like a series of tubes". It is still an analogy. Apparently Sen. Stevens doesn't know his grammar either. Philosopher2king 9/14/07

2598:

Although the entire section is well-sourced, the stringing together of statements without directly connecting them to the event may be considered original research. The four sources mentioned say nothing of

3452: 3370:

So, I think a better parody of his quote would have been to attack his term for email ("an Internet"), because that's where his understanding breaks down. Not at bandwidth, but at email and email servers.

3337:

I agree. Packets moving through "tubes" is actually an excellent metaphor and "tubes" obviously means FIFO buffers in routers. But it's kind of hard to ask him now if that's what he meant, isn't it?

1383:

I concur with the three previous commenters. Even today, it's hard to find someone who doesn't know what you're referring to when you mention X being a series of tubes or Y not being a big truck. --

340:

I'd put money on the answer to Ted Steven's problem being one of similarly breathtaking technical naïveté, and I would imagine it'd be extremely difficult to diagnose without direct access to him.--

74:

Partial text of Stevens' speech highlighting the idiocy of it is, although funny, the antithesis of NPOV. The article should somewhat attempt to explain Stevens' argument against net neutrality.

1650:

The reason "a series of tubes" is used is because that is the phrase that took off. Although it is the least of the mistakes he made during his speech, it is the part that has become notable. --

1831:— The article is not about the metaphor the senator used. It is about his bungled speech and its repercussions. (The new page name is just an example; if you think of a better name, change it.) 2011:

Last nights episode of The Daily Show(Janurary,23,2007) referenced "...the interwebs, a series of tubes..." when talking about the presidential candidates using the Internet as a campaign tool

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a picture of a router, or preferably a server, would be better. something that actually handles internet traffic. That's an illustration of links, it has nothing to do with the actual network.

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Well, it's definitely a phrase, as it's composed of a series of words. I think we can give Stevens enough credit to call it a metaphor, as I'm pretty sure he didn't mean to imply that it is

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internet so the bus may be a switch or a hub. Nothing at all like what the senator was alluding to. I think we're giving him too much credit and I would like to see the icon removed. --

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The "Gears of War" section is unintelligble to anyone who doesn't know the game. What is this achievement, and what does it have in common with the subject of the article besides the name?

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And how can you defend the use of "an internet" ?? A series of tubes would be a good analogy if he had the required knowlege to embelish beyond a poorly chosen regurgitation of buzzwords.

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At the moment the lead doesn't adequately summarize the content of the article. It shouldn't just give the background to the speech, but offer a short summation of the article as a whole.

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I'd support this merge. Yes, this was a funny phrase at the time, but its moment of notability has long since passed. To have this much coverage of a transient meme seems pretty silly.

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without comment by an anonymous editor.) Edward Felten's Ph.D in computer science, and professorship at Princeton in that field make him an expert. Also, from his page at Princeton:

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The first time I heard about Tubesnow.com I assumed it was a reference to this quote. It could just be a coincidence. Does anyone think this is worth adding to the "other citations?"

1252:. It's a non-commercial photo, and I have no links to where you can buy the shirt. I don't even know who made it. The photo is my property and already distributed under the same 1116:

OK, what was the point of deleting them? The speech was a public one in the US Senate, the clip is everywhere and no-one's ever made any money from it or copyrighted it. Why? WHY?

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Yes, it is relevant. If you look at the source of the quote you will see that it is from an article about Stevens's speach. Rockwell is arguing that Stevens is an example of the

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You know, I'm actually thankful to Senator Stevens for igniting this whole controversy.... Because honestly, I always thought that the internet was a big truck. But now I know.

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Possibly, but don't you think there needs to be more to this article than a transcript of the speech in question and then "Hey, look! People are actually talking about this!"

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This used to be in the description of the video, but it was later changed: "Wow, 50,000 views. Man, I never expected this video to get so popular. Not complaining though. :D

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Personally, I think anything that you can have 28 references for deserves its own page. Also, there is a number of things on the internet that refer to this, such as some of

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No, he never did. I think it might be worth keeping, as he did state he was going to appear on the show to make a rebuttal, but point out that he has not done so to date. --

548:"slightly oversimplified"? He regulates the thing. He should at least have the same understanding of the internet as my 12 year old cousin, who doesn't even like computers. 1417:

Um, okay? I fail to see how a joke news show can be regarded as the litmus test for article relevance in an encyclopedia. If I recall correctly, the Daily Show's colleague

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complex) reasons for this, I asked him what email client he was using... Outlook... so does that dial up automatically? Er, you have to dial up to the net to get your email?

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I understand the justification of the section, but the fact remains that it says nothing of Ted Stevens and is only tangentially related. I do not believe it belongs here.

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Anyone have any good illustrations of the Internet that are safe to post? I was thinking of, say, a comprehensive screensaver shot or some old bank's pneumatic network...

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Do you disagree that discussion of "series of tubes" on the Daily Show goes to the notability of series of tubes? Months after Stevens' statement, there are still over 50

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Several other phrases that could be full-fledged articles if this one passes muster could include "Bitchin' rockstar from Mars," "teh Internets," and "double rainbow."

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notable. Plus, look at all the references from reliable/notable sources, including genuine news sites. I don't think over fifteen individual references can be wrong. -

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Regarding the free images, they certainly are good alternatives in terms of style, though, as noted, they have little (I guess I'd say "less") to do with the article.

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There have been far lesser-known phrases which have been given such recognition. Why does an entire article based on the misinformed phrase of one politician exist?

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port. A single FIFO queues in routers are just like tubes. It's a great metaphor, except in the case when people are more interested in ridicule than understanding.

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21:41, 6 July 2007 (UTC) the internet is more like electricity. But it is obvious that he dosent know what the internet is. He says "I just the other day got... an

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I reverted the removal because it was overly broad. Surely not everything in there is relevant or significant, but you just threw the baby out with the bathwater.

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It's clear given the context, which is packet prioritization, that "tubes" probably refers to queues in routers used to buffer packets when links are congested.

3448: 1927:? Anyways, I oppose because the article is about the metaphor and there is no need to legitimize the article by trying to attach it to a more encyclopedic title. 1321:

I removed the prod (Me!) Anyways, my rebuttal: We've got a whole lot of things that can also be considered "unimportant". For example, we've got every episode of

3273:(from edit 478329839 comment) "I'm not sure this is WP:OR. It's referenced and a fairly simple comparison of the terms he used and actual protocols. Talk page?" 709:? Tubes! Pipes! Optical fibers, coax, microwave, and twisted pairs. I still don't see what's so funny about the tubes. Maybe he should have talked about 2841:

had a Knowledge (XXG) account, which makes him an expert, and John Stewart has a TV show on Comedy Central, which makes him an expert, so it's a toss-up. —

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I agree "a series of tubes" is WAY closer to reality than "that internet", "personal internet", and IMHO the worst of them all "an internet was sent to me"

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but I don't know if uploading it is legal so I just left it. I tried finding something already uploaded that would work, but the closest I could find was

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Anyway, we should keep our eyes peeled for knowledgeable RS who have recognized that Stevens probably meant vacuum tubes, the precursor to transistors.

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of the internet to tubes is an analogy; "It's a series of tubes" itself is a metaphor. This is essentially the same construction used in the example in

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I'm passing on a question posed by a Slashdot reader: Did the late senator's tubes analogy get notable coverage in media outside the United States? --

1717:. The former is correct US English spelling, while the latter is UK. Given the subject of the article is an American politician, and most of the 1163:

Yeah. Tubes is a flawed analogy, and is incorrect for the point he's trying to make, but it's the closest he gets to making sense in that speech

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I've uploaded two audio samples - the 'Series of Tubes' one and the 'I Got it Yesterday' one, but I can't get them to look neat. A little help?

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Reading this article was rather disturbing to me. I think that people may be missing the point of the discussion. Or perhaps it was deliberate?

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His analogy was quite reasonable, but what he neglects to add is that the people mailing all that "junk" that gets in his way are the ones who

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Committee on electronic voting. In 2004, Scientific American magazine named him to its list of fifty worldwide science and technology leaders.

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explicit handling of congestion means at the very least that all services degrade gracefully. Email does not get queued for hours because of

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The "Daily Show" section is very listy: one-sentence paragraphs are bad prose style. This section needs to be written in a more connected way.

1277:" implying that calling any internet meme "unimportant" has no relevant value in wikipedia. So there are no unimportant internet memes then? 3517: 1619: 3707: 3684: 3622: 3573: 3319: 3296:

context; it reads like an attempt to justify his comments about the delayed email, but mail queues and tcp queues are not remotely similar.

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Regarding free icons and impact... it seems like it would require a lot of reading between the lines to assert that Microsoft specifically

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a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike license. I think the link to the audio file is ample attribution, though I cannot speak for PK.

844:" Feel free to revert if you find it inappropriate. I just think that it adds an important point, even if I still think he's a dummy =D -- 244:

I would like to see someone add a bit explaining why his example of email taking 4 days to arrive was not caused by the tubes being full..

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though I can not believe we have an article on bumpled metaphor from an old senator. Do we really think this is even going to qualify for

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for all those shiny new tubes. Did he really think that without porn and torrents and all that, a smaller Internet would be any faster?

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the case for including "Series of tubes". The association to Stephen Colbert's Knowledge (XXG) pranks is disingenuous and irrelevant.

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the possibility of wikipedia ending up as a dumping ground for thousands of internet "memes" in the future is looking ever more likely

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and the subject has been discussed in multiple media sources. Weeks after the incident, the Daily Show is still talking about it. ·

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I get your point, but to counter that, he calls e-mail "an internet" so it's not at all clear he's speaking of it as an analogy.

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necessarily apply, however, to a myspace page or music remixes. I disagree with your "all or nothing" approach to the links. ·

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While this article has some promise, there are some major improvements that need to be made before it qualifies for GA status:

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The YouTube channel Pyrocynical has an anthology commentary series named after this quote. I think it should be added to the "

3222:, terrible idea. The subject of this article is notable and has been discussed in hundreds of reliable secondary sources. -- 2905: 2880: 2073:

Added a link for people to find out what this achievement stuff is all about, for people that don't know anything about xbox

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traffic! The issue is much bigger than specifically Americans and specifically knowledge of the Internet. Many politicians

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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was deleted from Commons with the reasoning "No evidence of permission. Originally uploaded at EN wiki as Fair Use" (see

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the requirements of expertise are so vast and the rate of technological turn-over is so high. Wasn't the "tube" part of

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used vacuum tubes, and there are accounts of grad students, on bicycles, riding around replacing tubes that burned out.

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It's just a series of tubes. Ten movies are streaming across the Internet, what happens to your own personal internet?

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I see there is a 'in defence' section. However, I'd like to expand upon the opposite. I hope to put in these points:

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slightly oversimplified, but why is it so funny? Do people expect this guy to write a textbook on TCP/IP or something?

3418:, when he called the internet a series of tubes? Would he be mocked as severely if he referred to the internet as a 311:

I don't think anyone is really "looking for explanations" here. On my part, anyway, it's merely idle speculation. ·

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Funnily enough I've often felt the same thing. Not much we can do about it here though since we can only rely on

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I'm sorry, you'll have to clarify. You want an independent source stating that XKCD is culturally significant?

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Internet in the first place. Even if they use some third party email service residing on an external :tually

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on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.

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Can anybody give an example of what would be considered a good analogy to be used to describe the Internet?

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A music video to the Series of Tubes Dance Mix I threw together in an hour using pictures found on google.

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Stevens bugged me, and I enjoyed seeing him mocked. But haven't any RS pointed out that he probably meant

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The bearded prospector shown on the Daily Show was Gabby Hayes. I hope no one minds that I made that edit.

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He's incompetent, so you think he and politicans like him should regulate the internet via net neutrality?

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I recently proposed the article to be deleted, and someone took it down immidiately, claiming that since "

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as the rest of my site, and anyone who wants to link to it or upload it has my full permission to do so.

1184: 822: 341: 3819: 3774: 3455:). But it is public domain as a work of a US government employee as a part of their official duties, as 3286: 3153: 3133: 2934: 2113: 2089: 1672: 1445: 1083: 743: 585: 538: 171: 136: 3818:: Could you show me some independent sources stating that those references are culturally significant? 3460: 2257: 980: 299: 1806:

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. No further edits should be made to this section.

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There is a video that CNET has featured as one of "Ten tech-related YouTube clips you shouldn't miss"

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remember this article making such a reference long ago but I can't find it now. Any help out there?

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. No further edits should be made to this section.

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icon that looks like it has tubes ... I'd like to look more, but I'll have to put it off for now. --

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The result of this discussion was to not merge. The subject has its own notability, separate from

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Then again, a "series of tubes" doesn't have any useful meaning to anyone. So.. which is better?

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The article needs a bit of work, of course, but it's off to a good beginning so far. Thanks to

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One more thing: this particular Knowledge (XXG) article has been featured in the media. See

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http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Series_of_tubes&diff=160275358&oldid=160066128

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Sure it could! Two paragraphs would be more than plenty. It's overdone as it is. Thanks,

945: 892: 866: 859:"A series of pipes" sounds like drug paraphernalia ... or some kind of Scottish folk music. 726: 696: 658: 413:), combined with the Daily Show report and other publicity, easily defeat any notability or 366: 1718: 1336: 842:

A nontechnical person could assume that a synonym of pipe would be appropriate terminology.

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The first section of the article proper should offer the background about Stevens' speech.

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Either "phrase" or "metaphor" works for me, I suppose, as neither requires us to give him

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

3187:. Notability does not expire. And there's too much content here to fit into his bio. 3837: 3815: 3801: 3766: 3589: 3391: 3229: 2960: 2064: 1959: 1642: 1490: 1418: 617: 388: 376: 278:

send the e-mail when they were supposed to, but the holdup was the internet's fault. ·

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https://web.archive.org/web/20071113183734/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cZC67wXUTs

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significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject

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significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject

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arguments that there should not be an article. Also, good work so far, The lorax. ·

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed move of the article.

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was sent by my staff at 10 o'clock in the morning on Friday, I got it yesterday."

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We do not need links to the knock-off T shirts and other viral marketing, thanks.

3372: 3152:. Though I do have to say, I think Double Rainbow does deserve it's own page... 3032: 2992: 2600: 2167: 2138: 2099: 1579: 1016:

It is a phrase as it's lacks a predicate. "Is" does not quality as a predicate.

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You can oyu the pic from www.chandigarhtrafficpolice.org by linking back to us.

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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On the other hand, if you're sending a whole internet... there's a rumor that

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I suspect he meant 'an email' when he said 'an internet'. Queueing delays of

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A big truck. Indeed. A garbage truck. A garbage truck overfilled with rotting

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or his relevant quotes, and are thus not directly connected to the subject.

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There is no comparison at all so it is not an analogy, copula or a metaphor.

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internet from a Senator with great influence over the future of technology.

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c:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Series of Tubes - Senator Ted Stevens.ogg

2453: 2438: 2433: 3099:), not this -- in fact, YouTube predates this comment by a year or so. -- 1248:

If it'd help, I have a photo of a t-shirt sighted at a hacker convention

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tubes. I think "metaphor" is the most appropriate word for the lead. The

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I've taken this into serious consideration and concluded the following:

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Really?? You haven't heard of Double Rainbow? Dude, you haven't lived.

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I contest the prod (though it's already been removed). The article is

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Superfunky59 did not create the original song. He only made the video.

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heh heh, so what's your 12 year old cousin's description of internet?

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icon with a free icon - Commons has quite a few such icon sets (see

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have nearly no relation to tcp speeds, and may have more to do with

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Technically, all of our internet memes can be considered unimportant

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Weeks after the incident, the Daily Show is still talking about it.

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and its incompetence to regulate and centrally plan an economy. --

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I found some free icons in Commons. I think they look like tubes.

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but blatent, easily ridiculed public idiocy isn't all too common.

3632:(→‎One of the best analogies for how the internet really works) 3528:

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

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Please feel free to resubmit when these issues have been fixed.

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.

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Knowledge (XXG):Knowledge (XXG) Signpost/2006-07-17/In the news

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It is not an analogy, which requires "like" or "as" to qualify.

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it; it's all about the punchline, but excludes any analysis.

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and enduring internet meme that deserves being on wikipedia?--

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Sorry my man, stupid mistake on my part. Thankyou very much.

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http://news.com.com/2300-1026_3-6095928-2.html?tag=ne.gall.pg

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comes from US media, the US spelling is more appropriate. --

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One of the best analogies for how the internet really works

2995:. Above all else, this subject meets the criteria found at 191:

http://www.chandigarhtrafficpolice.org/prohibitirysigns.php

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this is not the case. It should be restated in some way.--

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defended it. (This article used to say so, but this was

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I cleaned up the language to be a little less weasely. --

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http://en.wikipedia.org/Image:Bullock_cart_sign_india.JPG

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Cool. Thanks for looking! I commented on them below. --

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It is a copula but metaphors are intrinsically copulas.

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One additional topology the the icons remind me of is

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Why dontcha go look it up? It's all over the googles.

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

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it lacks reference and then the following are true:

2548:I have removed the icon from the article, as it is 3457:File:I Got it Yesterday - Senator Ted Stevens.ogg 3067:to manage the portfolios they inherit. They make 2594:Original research in "technical analysis" section 1280:Months from the said "Pipes" comment, is this an 2953:, about the subject of this article. Cheers, -- 2149:Transmission_Control_Protocol#Congestion_control 1167:THAT is the section of gold ripe for parody. -- 1025:The best suited description for it is metaphor. 3542:Participate in the deletion discussion at the 3449:File:Series_of_Tubes_-_Senator_Ted_Stevens.ogg 2987:A summary of the conclusions reached follows. 2360:icon of the Crystal Clear icon theme for the 189:I found an image that might be appropiate at 8: 3537:I Got it Yesterday - Senator Ted Stevens.ogg 2690:those tubes and into your child's bedroom." 2300:Does someone not agree that it has received 2296:Why was this article given a notability tag? 2162:, still only had a latency of about 2 hours. 3773:of poorly sourced popular culture content? 405:I think the writeup of the meme in today's 3769:: Can you please explain why you reverted 3701: 3670: 3608: 3567: 3503: 3338: 2409:could have, for example, been inadvertent. 2112:Ok, enough rambling. Carry on, wikipedia! 1444:other memes associated with TV shows (see 1028:Calling it a phrase would not be relevant. 1019:It is a metaphor for very obvious reasons. 3741:An archive of the description from 2007: 3076:(that hotbed of humiliation) inspired by 2249:Merge this article with 'Internet meme.' 958:much credit. "Analogy" is a bit much. · 3459:is. I believe it should be re-uploaded. 2945:Additional sources - discussion in books 2158:Even if email in alaska is delivered by 1780:I wouldn't exactly call that a defense. 2059:for an idea of how to cite web sources. 1494:. In my book, it doesn't get much more 1452:), and in any case, certainly does not 2574:This statement isn't entirely accurate 2342:I'm thinking of replacing the Windows 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 206:Image:WorldWideWebAroundWikipedia.png 7: 2978:The following discussion is closed. 3474:Digimon in "Pop culture references" 3095:No, YouTube was a reference to TV ( 3069:sweeping, uninformed policy changes 2352:Image:Crystal Clear app network.png 1339:and see what everyone else thinks. 1126:better solution, please go for it. 228:Looks like a series of tubes to me. 2350:). One I found that would work is 1829:Ted Stevens' net neutrality speech 262:can be really big sometimes... -- 249:broken, not filled), or there's a 24: 3078:this very self-humiliating event? 2914:In defense of "a series of tubes" 2573: 2338:Windows Network and Internet icon 1757:Neutrality and Technical Accuracy 1032:However, if you are referring to 3797:for content from the Daily Show? 3362:Bad Terminology, but makes sense 3256:The discussion above is closed. 2997:Knowledge (XXG):Notability (web) 2452: 2447: 2442: 2437: 2432: 2354:. A possible caption could be, " 1890:Thus, it should not be moved. · 1709:, which changed the spelling of 1483:hits for the phrase, and nearly 218: 29: 1925:Trivia Pursuit: Naughts Edition 3687:) 20:55, 2019 January 24 (UTC) 3625:) 20:55, 2019 January 24 (UTC) 2889:21:49, 11 August 2010 (UTC)~ 2801:12:33, 25 September 2007 (UTC) 2223:07:11, 21 September 2007 (UTC) 1788:16:32, 25 September 2007 (UTC) 1240:13:25, 13 September 2006 (UTC) 1219:07:20, 13 September 2006 (UTC) 1175:23:41, 21 September 2006 (UTC) 1096:23:55, 14 September 2007 (UTC) 730:03:59, 12 September 2006 (UTC) 149:23:48, 14 September 2007 (UTC) 1: 3846:06:06, 19 November 2022 (UTC) 3810:02:46, 7 September 2022 (UTC) 3761:Reversion without explanation 3556:13:36, 17 February 2019 (UTC) 3439:18:59, 18 December 2016 (UTC) 3291:20:10, 23 February 2012 (UTC) 2620:23:17, 30 December 2008 (UTC) 2589:16:39, 30 November 2008 (UTC) 2569:13:16, 10 November 2008 (UTC) 2314:02:55, 25 December 2007 (UTC) 2290:16:37, 15 December 2007 (UTC) 1726:22:46, 13 December 2006 (UTC) 1695:02:31, 19 November 2006 (UTC) 1676:01:29, 19 November 2006 (UTC) 1658:14:04, 27 December 2006 (UTC) 1335:? Of course it is. Put it on 1331:less important than say, the 1209:10:49, 8 September 2006 (UTC) 1188:16:20, 23 November 2006 (UTC) 1154:Internet Was Sent by my staff 1066:· 18:11, 6 January 2007 (EST) 1009:then the following are true: 979:usage of "metaphor" seconded 938:: "All the world's a stage". 836:Ask for review of my addition 345:16:31, 23 November 2006 (UTC) 213:01:57, 22 February 2007 (UTC) 175:12:21, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 120:16:09, 4 September 2007 (UTC) 3832:01:50, 28 October 2022 (UTC) 3661:19:54, 24 January 2019 (UTC) 3598:14:56, 24 January 2019 (UTC) 3582:02:36, 24 January 2019 (UTC) 3489:09:40, 26 October 2017 (UTC) 3469:04:37, 23 October 2017 (UTC) 3406:Series of (vacuum) Tubes ... 2939:11:49, 9 December 2010 (UTC) 2700:16:40, 24 October 2009 (UTC) 2679:00:10, 6 February 2009 (UTC) 2657:09:33, 11 January 2009 (UTC) 2242:Why does this article exist? 2190:18:00, 10 January 2008 (UTC) 2068:09:44, 7 February 2007 (UTC) 2027:16:52, 24 January 2007 (UTC) 2007:Another Daily Show Reference 1984:Add any additional comments: 1972:23:21, 14 January 2007 (UTC) 1951:04:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC) 1932:01:15, 14 January 2007 (UTC) 1916:22:58, 13 January 2007 (UTC) 1903:21:37, 13 January 2007 (UTC) 1878:21:40, 13 January 2007 (UTC) 1836:21:08, 13 January 2007 (UTC) 1820:00:43, 19 January 2007 (UTC) 1751:03:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC) 1741:02:08, 11 January 2007 (UTC) 1731:Appearance on the Daily Show 1646:11:35, 29 October 2006 (UTC) 1628:04:28, 2 February 2007 (UTC) 1549:22:55, 6 November 2006 (UTC) 1524:21:05, 6 November 2006 (UTC) 1461:21:03, 6 November 2006 (UTC) 1427:20:39, 6 November 2006 (UTC) 1402:04:53, 28 October 2006 (UTC) 1388:17:52, 23 October 2006 (UTC) 1353:23:38, 18 October 2006 (UTC) 1315:15:51, 15 October 2006 (UTC) 1289:09:00, 15 October 2006 (UTC) 1149:6:13, 28 November 2006 (UTC) 995:19:42, 8 November 2006 (UTC) 907:Phrase, Metaphor or Analogy? 506:07:34, 15 October 2006 (UTC) 395:for getting things started. 84:23:55, 12 October 2009 (UTC) 3791:19:16, 14 August 2022 (UTC) 2951:discussion in over 60 books 2885:21:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC) 2851:20:01, 21 August 2010 (UTC) 2818:21:50, 10 August 2010 (UTC) 2769:05:43, 11 August 2010 (UTC) 2743:21:37, 10 August 2010 (UTC) 2723:19:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC) 2635:22:30, 9 January 2009 (UTC) 2367:employs the 'tube' metaphor 2237:03:52, 3 October 2007 (UTC) 1261:17:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC) 1140:19:14, 31 August 2006 (UTC) 1131:19:13, 31 August 2006 (UTC) 1121:19:11, 31 August 2006 (UTC) 1112:18:58, 31 August 2006 (UTC) 984:21:16, 24 August 2006 (UTC) 973:20:30, 23 August 2006 (UTC) 950:18:42, 23 August 2006 (UTC) 921:18:33, 23 August 2006 (UTC) 721:19:06, 17 August 2006 (UTC) 701:18:57, 17 August 2006 (UTC) 324:18:08, 14 August 2006 (UTC) 303:17:46, 14 August 2006 (UTC) 291:18:24, 13 August 2006 (UTC) 267:09:34, 13 August 2006 (UTC) 3866: 3716:14:25, 12 March 2019 (UTC) 3306:17:59, 21 March 2013 (UTC) 3126:09:40, 21 March 2011 (UTC) 3109:13:19, 21 March 2011 (UTC) 3055:which filters nothing but 2919:picture to that effect. 2685:Grand Theft Auto IV Parody 2171:21:21, 2 August 2007 (UTC) 2117:21:22, 23 April 2007 (UTC) 2103:20:07, 23 April 2007 (UTC) 2093:19:26, 23 April 2007 (UTC) 1705:I've reverted the edit by 1583:17:44, 17 April 2007 (UTC) 1399:Hypergeometric2F1(a,b,c,x) 1286:Hypergeometric2F1(a,b,c,x) 992:Special Operative MACAVITY 897:23:06, 9 August 2006 (UTC) 881:23:02, 9 August 2006 (UTC) 871:04:50, 4 August 2006 (UTC) 854:23:15, 3 August 2006 (UTC) 772:Ludwig von Mises Institute 768:Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr. 629:Maybe it should be added? 503:Hypergeometric2F1(a,b,c,x) 3522:20:05, 2 March 2018 (UTC) 3400:15:18, 30 July 2015 (UTC) 3353:08:55, 2 March 2015 (UTC) 3162:10:11, 1 April 2011 (UTC) 3142:10:11, 1 April 2011 (UTC) 3045:22:10, 7 March 2011 (UTC) 2469:15:05, 30 June 2008 (UTC) 2418:21:55, 29 June 2008 (UTC) 2392:19:11, 29 June 2008 (UTC) 2374:18:32, 29 June 2008 (UTC) 1573:The above statement that 1397:and thats all I wanted.-- 1007:"It's a series of tubes." 808:03:34, 28 July 2006 (UTC) 796:12:56, 21 July 2006 (UTC) 758:05:11, 21 July 2006 (UTC) 662:23:32, 25 July 2006 (UTC) 621:05:49, 19 July 2006 (UTC) 606:23:21, 18 July 2006 (UTC) 589:23:06, 18 July 2006 (UTC) 571:03:24, 28 July 2006 (UTC) 560:22:54, 18 July 2006 (UTC) 542:21:53, 18 July 2006 (UTC) 526:00:46, 11 June 2007 (UTC) 430:16:51, 17 July 2006 (UTC) 400:16:37, 17 July 2006 (UTC) 380:06:08, 29 July 2006 (UTC) 370:16:55, 17 July 2006 (UTC) 3381:14:47, 21 May 2014 (UTC) 3328:07:19, 28 May 2014 (UTC) 3276:My position is that the 3258:Please do not modify it. 3251:01:09, 18 May 2011 (UTC) 3086:embarrassing misspelling 3031:I propose a merger into 3015:02:51, 3 June 2011 (UTC) 2981:Please do not modify it. 2541:06:35, 7 July 2008 (UTC) 2513:02:43, 7 July 2008 (UTC) 2490:06:35, 7 July 2008 (UTC) 2333:12:34, 25 May 2008 (UTC) 2274:Because it has received 2078:10:12, 3 June 2007 (UTC) 1997:Please do not modify it. 1803:Please do not modify it. 1488:article), including the 1254:Creative Commons License 1005:If you are referring to 826:00:54, 1 July 2007 (UTC) 705:And how to do connect a 3756:15:52, 1 May 2020 (UTC) 3420:"series of transistors" 3234:22:28, 9 May 2011 (UTC) 3215:13:38, 6 May 2011 (UTC) 3197:00:56, 5 May 2011 (UTC) 3178:00:34, 5 May 2011 (UTC) 2965:22:32, 9 May 2011 (UTC) 911:"Series of tubes was a 775:be as few as possible." 2836: 2705:Foreign media mentions 2160:IP over Avian Carriers 1873:since I nominated it. 1865:Survey - Support votes 990:"Metaphor" thirded. -- 711:IP_over_Avian_Carriers 2831: 2775:"Defended by experts" 2348:Category:Icons themes 2017:comment was added by 1884:Survey - Oppose votes 1618:comment was added by 1043:It is a non-sequiter. 744:Llewellyn H. Rockwell 42:of past discussions. 3025:about the internet. 2344:Network and Internet 2318: 2098:Not at all. Thanks. 18:Talk:Series of tubes 2857:A view in juxtapose 2837:On the other hand, 2365:desktop environment 2304:? I'll untag it. 1327:. Is an episode of 716:with networking. -- 532:Why is it so funny? 3548:Community Tech bot 3500:in Popular Culture 3265:Technical Analysis 1939:. Same reasons. 1333:Quadratic equation 593:Ted? That you? · 240:Flawed Explanation 129:Cheers Everyone! 3718: 3706:comment added by 3688: 3675:comment added by 3626: 3613:comment added by 3584: 3572:comment added by 3524: 3508:comment added by 3355: 3343:comment added by 3318:comment added by 3097:cathode ray tubes 3053:"Internet"-filter 2970:Proposal to merge 2929:comment added by 2910: 2896:comment added by 2888: 2871:comment added by 2804: 2787:comment added by 2669:comment added by 2550:original research 2390: 2288: 2270: 2256:comment added by 2030: 1770:defended that. 1761:I did this edit: 1666:Daily Show quotes 1631: 1098: 1082:comment added by 1072: 1071: 1034:"series of tubes" 679:wide area network 151: 135:comment added by 122: 110:comment added by 67: 66: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 3857: 3820:theleekycauldron 3775:theleekycauldron 3751: 3330: 3154:Danielfarrellnzl 3134:Danielfarrellnzl 3010: 3003: 2983: 2941: 2909: 2890: 2887: 2865: 2803: 2781: 2765: 2762: 2759: 2756: 2753: 2681: 2654: 2649: 2644: 2617: 2612: 2607: 2566: 2561: 2556: 2456: 2451: 2446: 2441: 2436: 2384: 2282: 2269: 2250: 2218: 2211: 2125:Counter Argument 2012: 1999: 1805: 1613: 1519: 1512: 1500:reliable sources 1375: 1368: 1310: 1303: 1235: 1229: 1084:Philosopher2king 1077: 1063: 1057: 1000: 999: 968: 962: 948: 895: 869: 851: 787: 707:wide are network 699: 597: 557: 421: 315: 282: 222: 137:Philosopher2king 130: 105: 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 3865: 3864: 3860: 3859: 3858: 3856: 3855: 3854: 3763: 3747: 3729: 3563: 3544:nomination page 3530: 3510:DatGuyonYouTube 3496: 3476: 3446: 3416:pneumatic tubes 3408: 3364: 3313: 3267: 3262: 3261: 3150:Google's Hoaxes 3065:under-qualified 3022: 3008: 3001: 2979: 2972: 2947: 2924: 2916: 2891: 2866: 2859: 2782: 2777: 2763: 2760: 2757: 2754: 2751: 2730: 2707: 2692:FordGT90Concept 2687: 2664: 2652: 2647: 2642: 2615: 2610: 2605: 2596: 2576: 2564: 2559: 2554: 2369:". Thoughts? -- 2340: 2321: 2298: 2251: 2244: 2230: 2221: 2216: 2207: 2198: 2127: 2086: 2036: 2013:—The preceding 2009: 2004: 1995: 1980: 1941:Series of tubes 1886: 1867: 1857: 1851: 1850:# '''Support''' 1843: 1825:Series of tubes 1811:The result was 1801: 1795: 1759: 1733: 1703: 1668: 1620:206.148.148.191 1614:—The preceding 1601: 1599:He has no idea. 1517: 1510: 1385:SpecOp Macavity 1373: 1366: 1308: 1301: 1271: 1233: 1227: 1200: 1156: 1104: 1061: 1055: 1049:It is a phrase. 966: 960: 939: 909: 886: 860: 849: 838: 785: 747: 690: 595: 555: 534: 419: 357: 355:Wiki-worthiness 313: 280: 242: 183: 157: 91: 72: 59: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 3863: 3861: 3853: 3852: 3851: 3850: 3849: 3848: 3798: 3762: 3759: 3728: 3725: 3724: 3723: 3722: 3721: 3720: 3719: 3708:64.132.169.226 3692: 3691: 3690: 3689: 3677:71.180.173.100 3664: 3663: 3647: 3646: 3630: 3629: 3628: 3627: 3615:71.180.173.100 3601: 3600: 3574:71.180.173.100 3562: 3559: 3540: 3539: 3529: 3526: 3495: 3492: 3475: 3472: 3445: 3442: 3407: 3404: 3403: 3402: 3363: 3360: 3359: 3358: 3357: 3356: 3332: 3331: 3320:96.254.195.175 3266: 3263: 3255: 3254: 3253: 3236: 3217: 3207:99.157.108.248 3199: 3181: 3180: 3165: 3164: 3146: 3145: 3144: 3118:122.109.84.166 3113: 3112: 3111: 3021: 3020: 3019: 3018: 3017: 2974: 2973: 2971: 2968: 2946: 2943: 2915: 2912: 2862: 2858: 2855: 2854: 2853: 2776: 2773: 2772: 2771: 2729: 2726: 2711:Damian Yerrick 2706: 2703: 2686: 2683: 2660: 2659: 2595: 2592: 2581:DeviantCharles 2575: 2572: 2546: 2545: 2544: 2543: 2533: 2530: 2526: 2516: 2515: 2499: 2498: 2497: 2496: 2495: 2494: 2493: 2492: 2476: 2475: 2474: 2473: 2472: 2471: 2457: 2431: 2423: 2422: 2421: 2420: 2410: 2402: 2395: 2394: 2339: 2336: 2320: 2317: 2297: 2294: 2293: 2292: 2243: 2240: 2229: 2226: 2213: 2197: 2194: 2193: 2192: 2164: 2163: 2156: 2146: 2126: 2123: 2121: 2106: 2105: 2085: 2082: 2081: 2080: 2061: 2060: 2052: 2049: 2046: 2043: 2035: 2032: 2008: 2005: 2003: 2002: 1987: 1986: 1979: 1976: 1975: 1974: 1953: 1934: 1929:205.157.110.11 1918: 1905: 1885: 1882: 1881: 1880: 1866: 1863: 1862: 1861: 1858: 1856:# '''Oppose''' 1855: 1852: 1849: 1842: 1839: 1809: 1808: 1796: 1794: 1793:Requested move 1791: 1758: 1755: 1754: 1753: 1732: 1729: 1702: 1699: 1698: 1697: 1667: 1664: 1663: 1662: 1661: 1660: 1611: 1610: 1600: 1597: 1596: 1595: 1594: 1593: 1592: 1591: 1590: 1589: 1588: 1587: 1586: 1585: 1560: 1559: 1558: 1557: 1556: 1555: 1554: 1553: 1552: 1551: 1533: 1532: 1531: 1530: 1529: 1528: 1527: 1526: 1491:New York Times 1470: 1469: 1468: 1467: 1466: 1465: 1464: 1463: 1434: 1433: 1432: 1431: 1430: 1429: 1419:Steven Colbert 1407: 1406: 1405: 1404: 1391: 1390: 1380: 1379: 1356: 1355: 1318: 1317: 1270: 1267: 1266: 1265: 1264: 1263: 1243: 1242: 1199: 1196: 1195: 1194: 1193: 1192: 1191: 1190: 1185:82.152.205.122 1155: 1152: 1151: 1150: 1142: 1133: 1123: 1114: 1103: 1100: 1074: 1070: 1069: 1068: 1067: 1051: 1050: 1047: 1044: 1041: 1030: 1029: 1026: 1023: 1020: 1017: 1014: 998: 997: 987: 986: 976: 975: 952: 908: 905: 904: 903: 902: 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