Talk:Skåneland - Knowledge (XXG)

3349:

not the one, either, who have been been slanting this article in such a way that it has become unavoidable to deal with the issue of regionalism as opposed to separatism. Throughout the history of this article, certain groups have congregated here, inserting derogatory phrases such "local patriots" about Scanians of today and "bandits" about their ancestors, etc. I would prefer it if this article stayed with the known facts, such as the fact that the region has been accepted into UNPO, and then simply leave out all the rest of the opinionated speculations about how many Scanians feel what, which is what you are asking for by requiring that the regionalism of the people of Scania is measured in some way, according to how strongly they feel about regionalism. I will go through the main research efforts on this issue, which I think are the surveys done in relation to the continuation of Region Skåne's trial period (which had strong support in Scania). In the meantime, here are some sentiments from the capital, with two radically different views on regionalism, from two different "Matses" on the top of the batting pile, namely Mats Hellström, County Governor of Stockholm, and Mats Svegfors, chairman of the Ansvarskommittén (the "Responsibility" Committee). What they have in common, and which I thought I'd share with you, is that they both basically state that the current county based power structure in Sweden is chaotic, paralyzing and useless. The solution for Hellstrom, naturally, is to increase the power of the state governors over the regions/counties and the municipalities, and the solution for Svegfors, surprisingly (as it shows faint echoes of sentiments expressed by some Scanian regionalists in book form) is to scrap the old county governors' system

3515:. Why? It makes articles too long? This article is not unusually long or unusually detailed - and if that was a problem, splitting would be an option to consider. The question the above raises in my mind is instead why referenced historical facts should be, or for some reason or other needs to be, concealed? The fate of Anholt, as a former part of the region, is interesting and it is a fact often mentioned in history books. The legend about Anholt (only mentioned in a footnote in this article) is perhaps more famous than even the actual people involved (as shown by it being the first thing the island's tourist board mentions about the history of the island). What is the argument for the removal of the footnote again? Too much information? As for point 4) above: I can't find any info in the article where it is implied that the region is a historical "land of Sweden" and I have found no evidence of an agenda expressed in the article that would aim to make the region an informal "land of Sweden". Rather, the article seems to stress the historical and cross-border aspects; it states right away in the lead that the region was a historical land of Denmark. Sorry, but the claims don't make any sense: if the request instead is that the article ought to include some sort of conspiracy theory, I would urge Muniswede to make sure to consult reliable sources. (Please also source your most recent additions about crown land and the Danish bishop. It is important to keep all facts 2754:, "The Evolution of Weight-Standards in the Creation of New Monetary and Commercial Links in Northern Europe from the Tenth Century to the Twelfth Century". She writes, p.197:" Cnut introduced the same new weight-standard into the coinage of Scania and eastern Denmark, the most prosperous part of his Scandinavian possessions, at the same date (c. 1026) as he changed the weight-standard of the English coinage.", p. 199: "The political ties with Denmark are explanation enough of the simultaneous introduction of the new standard there, but its limitation to Scania and the Baltic islands suggests that that area's trading links with England counted more than mere political ties." (Footnote: J.C. Becker (1981). The Coinages of Harthacnut and Maagnus the Good at Lund, c. 1040-6, Studies in Northern Coinages of the Eleventh Century, ed. Becker (Copenhagen 1981), pp. 120-1.) Notice also that Danish authors and translators never seem to insist on Skåne. As a matter of fact, Danish scholars and authorities have always been very accommodating in allowing English names when their regions and cities are mentioned in English translations, from Hamlet onwards. However, it is only recently that Swedish dissertations in general use Scania. (See below). There was a long, long discussion stretching over a couple of weeks, before the changing from Skåne to 3590:

Swedish version has some kind of encyclopedia attached to it. I'd suggest sticking with peer-reviewed articles, encyclopedias, dictionaries, published books, etc. Commercial enterprises' use of terms or names may not be considered especially interesting additions to articles. Concerning using sources to "prove the negative": if by that statement you mean that you would like to see a section added to the article that talks about how unpopular the terms "Skåneland-Skånelandskapen-Skånelandene" are in Sweden by showing how many times they are excluded from Swedish books dealing with the subject, I'd suggest this modus operandi: try a Google book search first to see if your theory holds water, then proceed by locating a source making the claim. It's probably not impossible, just not that interesting an addition in my opinion, because it basically boils down to the popularity-competition aspect mentioned above. It doesn't change the fact that terms still exist in encyclopedias, dictionaries, history books and popular science magazines and therefore warrant mention. But if you feel that this aspect is crucial, I'm sure people would be willing to help you out though, although nobody is paid. No problem. :)

1346:

making priests free of all duties, giving knights and squires the right to the three-mark fines from their men and making the Arch Bishop free from secular justice, etc. It also supposedly states that nobody may be arrested and carried away from Skåne without conviction. I'm busy with totally unrelated research, so I just don't have time to look for that source material. I think it's possible we might find references to Magnus and his "kingdom" in lit. about Sancta Birgitta too, especially considering how much she hated Magnus Eriksson, even denouncing him as a homosexual. I've skimmed some peer-reviewed publications related to Sancta Birgitta (by Jonsson, Schmid and Brilioth) and they all agree that Birgitta's 'revelation' were aimed at Archbishop Petrus Philippi and the Odgisle Birgeri, who was at the papal court in Avignon for more than 10 years. He became famous for his use of bribery to secure papal authority for King Magnus Eriksson's occupation of Scania. See Ann-Mari Jonsson, ed. Sancta Birgitta: Revelaciones Book III. Stockholm: Almqvist and Wiksell International, 1998. ISBN: 9-174-02288-1(p.37). When I have more time I'll definitely put some energy into this. --Pia

3019:

Albania, America, Belgium, Slovenia, Georgia, &c. simply because they happen to correspond to a Latin form? It's almost as ludicrous as saying Swedish should change most of its exonyms because they're the same as Danish. In English, the -ia or -a endings for toponyms did derive indirectly from Latin but they have been in the language so long as to be considered natural. (Witness creation of new names of English speaking countries such as Tanzania, Nigeria, Zambia, or Malaysia or sub-national entities like Appalachia, Scillonia, or Acadiana) French uses -ie or -e and German -ien or -en which are only slight differences from Latin yet somehow these forms escape the tarnish of Latin by association. Latin has ceased to be language of direct importance in the English speaking world for some time and any toponyms that are coincidental with Latin but are used in English can safely be considered pure English. Angermannia, Gestricia and Westrogothia are clear Latin anachronisms and Dalecarlia less so, but Scania is another case. Solely for comparison, cf. other wiki versions Catalan (

3307:, but what I think about Scanians being "underrepresented" has no bearing whatsoever on this article. It would behoove you to realize that the same goes for you. If your question is why I support the inclusion of the section, I'd be happy to tell you: the section adds perspective to the issue of regionalism by showing that it is not necessarily driven exclusively by "patriotism" or "nationalism". It points to the fact that many other regions, of various shapes and forms, demonstrate impulses towards autonomy that are not based solely on such sentiments. Now, back to you: it is bad enough that you are misrepresenting the content and authorship of the section here on the talk page, but a bigger problem is that you are also applying your own personal opinions on the issue when arguing to have it deleted---You want to remove the fact that many other regionalist movements, of various shapes and forms, who demonstrate various impulses towards autonomy, are driven by feelings of underrepresention as well as nationalism, because 2043:

even though it made it through the Danish attack in 1678 when a large portion of the city was burnt to the ground, I think it may be hard to pinpoint exactly what and how much damage was done to it each time during the repeated lootings and attacks during this period, at least without neutral illustrations (with neutral, I mean illustrations not created to glorify one of the two warring sides). It doesn't help, of course, that the entire church archive was removed and transported to Stockholm in 1683, and destroyed there in the 1697 fire. Since the dating of this image is unsure as well, even though it has been determined to be an illustration of the battle in 1676 by the archivers, I agree with your move to delete it. I'll search the files for some other illustration of the architectural damage and human losses caused by this long tug of war over Scania. Thank you so much for pointing this out and for your kind message.

1907:

that no accounts highlighting the fact that the original "centralizing force" in Skåne's case was historically an uninvited, violent and unwelcome invading force? This is about a region. In my opinion, "regionalistic overtones" are far more appropriate here than "non-regional overtones" . If that seems like a strange opinion, please consider sharing your argument against "regionalism" with the local writers contributing to articles on Wales (who are not shy about pointing out what they consider "anti-Welsh" and "Welsh-bashing"), South Africa, Tunisia, etc, or writers of articles about any former colonies of for example the British Empire, and you will perhaps be better able to absorb the full impact of a universal request for a "centralist" approach. (added on 17:46, 26 April 2006 by 71.106.239.124)by Pia

3265:? It is a very typical way of putting things among the "regionalists". It is of course true hat "separatism" is a "minority viewpoint". But an uncritical reader could think that this "minority" constitutes some measurable part of the general population. Even 48 % is a "minority". But in this case I strongly believe that this minority is so small that it is almost impossible even to measure it with normal statistical methods. The results of the election to the Regional Council tell us something: The "local nationalist" party "Skånefederalisterna", got a total of 732 votes. But the right-wing "Swedish nationalist" party "Sverigedemokraterna" got 45 945 votes and ten seats in the council. That is another problem, but it has nothing to to with "separatism", on the contrary! 2762:. I'll repeat my stuff: Checking English usage, I found about 1,000 pages or so of English titles using Skåne in combination with Scania or Scanian, but very few using Skåne alone, with no mention of Scania or Scanian (only 2 actually). Books that use Skåne often explain in the beginning that it is the equivalent of Scania. An unrestricted search for English-language books using the name "Scania" produced 11,100 pages of titles through the university search engine (I also did a quick double-take at home with Google scholar's book search, because I didn't print out anything from the "Skåne" list, just the "Scania" list..it confirmed that there are a lot more published about Scania than there is about Skåne.) I put a random sample of the titles in my sandbox: 3067:

know that Scania is used in secondary and tertiary sources in English. (Moreover, it helps to avoid that å - actually, I have the letter in my keyboard, but I do not want to give it any privilege over all those ü, Ø, æ, or Ł. We should preferably keep this written in a way that English-users are able to write it easily.) My only small reservation os whether Scania connotates too much to the biggest province, Skåne, of those three - but my observations speak hat Scania is much used of the whole bunch (to mollify that reservtion, Terra Scania derivation would be precise, but alas, such is not well-established in English, as opposite to in Latin texts). So, wlcome to move this to

3494:

that the article is made less informative?! Please note that such an aim is at cross-purpose with the aim of this encyclopedia (as is attempts to make articles shorter because of a personal dislike for a subject or antipathy towards another country). Edits in this vein are likely to be reverted in the future as well, I'm afraid. I notice that the above user have searched out the information about Anholt in other articles as well, only to delete it, along with the reference

1614:(one need only read Saxo to understand why one might question his reliability - are we to believe, for example, that the Norse god Woden truly dwelt at Upsala?). Sawyer devotes a chapter to discuss verification of Snorri's and Saxo's assertions in primary documents of the era—ninth & tenth century Frankia, England, Islamic texts, Byzantine texts, Russian texts, etc. Sawyer states: "The early development of the Swedish kingdom is very obscure. Accounts written in the 309: 3391:

between Denmark and Sweden even after 1710: During the Theater War (Sweden vs Russia and Denmark) in 1788-1790, Båstad was attacked and Råå was burnt to the ground. During the Napoleonic war, Sweden and Denmark took different sides and engaged in minor incidents in 1808-09 and 1813. Unless some reputable scholar states that no fighting took place on Scanian soil during the Napoleonic War, I would tend to trust the one used by the Wiki contributors here so far.

288: 204: 183: 21: 2750:

on to Scania (historic region) in order to make this a stable article, because even though it is easy to find English speaking people who use Skåne, you will have a hard time locating the name Skåneland in English texts. Scania is used for both. Notice that a lot of the Norse or Viking era Scania is the domain of British and Danish scholars. And they do primarily use Scania, not Skåne. (See for example Pamela Nightingale's article in

3186:

based in the municipality of Eslöv. I tried to mention that in the article, but this information was immedeatly removed. Is there any evidence that this foundation is at all known by more than 1000 persons in the whole country? Is SSF at all active outside the Internet? How many percent of the population of the provinces concerned know that they are internationally "represented" by this tiny foundation? Nobody knows. --

2892:(Sep. 13, 2001, HEADLINE: Danes still interested in moving to Sweden - report. BODY: "There were reportedly 801 Danes who moved from Denmark to the Scania region of Sweden between January and June this year", and Aug. 16, 2001, HEADLINE: Possible progress in Oresund tax rules soon, and August 15, 2001, HEADLINE: Garbage target for Swedish thieves. BODY: The large refuse collection companies in the Scania region.." ), 1557:. According to ninth century Frankish sources, by the early 9th century many of the chieftains in the south of Scandinavia acknowledged Danish kings as their overlords. The west and south coast of modern Sweden was so effectively under Danish control that the area was known as Denmark (literally the frontier of the Danes). In the ninth century, various Svear chieftains gathered tribute in Finland and northern Russia." 3123:

details will go there. And other sections will then deal, without that POV, one with political history of the actual Terra Scania, one with its current life, one with sme other aspect of its history, and so forth. I do not condone an article which seems to have a message of justifying its (current) title, and nothing more substantial. And I am sure there are much things to mae this a more substantial article.

319: 3170:

provinces have been fully and totally integrated into Sweden. They are as much Swedish as any other of the provinces of this country. The subject is almost not debated at all in Sweden, but the "fringe groups" are setting the standards. They could say and write whatever they want, and nobody cares. They are formulating a problem, which is no problem at all for the rest of the population. --

3281:. That is of course a very interesting topic. But: Could you answer me in what way Scania (or "Skåneland") or its inhabitants are "politically underrepresented" compared with other Swedes? The provinces are represented in the Swedish parliament in the same way as any other part of the country. And the Regional Council of Skåne (like the Regional Council of Västra Götaland) has 214: 152: 904:

same harsh treatment if they showed disloyalty against the central government, and painting the picture of a Swedish-Scanian dichotomy in 17th century Sweden seems like applying 19th century concepts in an anachronistic fashion; the seeds of later nationalism had certainly been planted by this time, but they were not nearly as clearly defined as they would become later.

3772: 2766:. I'm feeling pretty tired of this now, but I will run the search again on Monday to make sure. Also: if you check the most recent dissertations presented about Scanian subjects, you'll notice that almost all the scholars use "Scania" in their abstracts, only a few abstracts have "Skåne" parenthesis Scania, and only three use Skåne alone, namely 4009:

cultural expressions originating in areas outside the capital region". I feel this sentence risks being a bit misunderstood. "Keep Sweden Swedish" (which was a movement during the late 80's to early 90's) has nothing to do with Scanian regionalism but with anti-immigration views (which in fact had strong support in the Scania region).

2015:"ravaged by the war of 1676". This since a) the cathedral was not ravaged by the war, at least not to that extent b) the picture did not show the cathedral but an ex-monastry ("Allhelgonaklostret") located a bit north of the town centre, which was a ruin already long before the war since it had been shut down by the Danish 3852:"References in popular culture" could be deleted, in my opinion. Whether "Skåneland" in popular culture just refers to the Scanian area or to the larger territory is hard to know. I also don't find the mention in popular culture to be of particular interest. However, if this sections gets referenced, it could remain. 3619:

in their everyday life. Yes there were governors general for the whole area for some time in the beginning of the Swedish era. But Halland had its own governor (landshövding) already in 1658 and Blekinge got a landshövding in 1683. The area has been incorporated in the "normal" administrative pattern

3348:

Apology accepted, Vedum. And sure, thanks, I will certainly contribute whatever I feel is needed, although I would suggest a separate article about various forms of regionalism in Scania (or in Sweden in general) since it would require a lot more text and may crowd the current article. Actually, I am

3107:

I concur that the name Skåneland does not agree very well with the English way of pronouncing things, especially since the letter Å is unknown to most English speaking people. OTOH, I can't see any established English name form for this territory (like there is one for Scania). Maybe, but just maybe,

3066:

I favor "Scania" (or Terra Scania -derivation, but that's not easy) instead of Skåneland. And, to reply to some comment above, this is not same issue as replacing Ångermanland with Angermannia. Scania and even its derivatives have been and ARE is much more common use in English-language literature. I

2749:

Williamsburg. It's good to see you here. It seemed hard to me at first to give up on Skåneland simply because it was such a miserable struggle to even get it accepted by some people here--before you came and put in the sources and the time and effort spent on diplomacy. But I think it is time to move

2042:

and Lunds Domkyrka had already been torn during the 16th century, so I assumed that the corner image of the city and church in this large illustration was meant to show Lund Cathedral. I must add that even if Lund Cathedral was not as badly damaged in 1676 as it was in the Swedish attack in 1644, and

1864:

To achieve a "neutral" point of view, articles don't have to be (shouldn't be) neutered by removing all controversy; neutrality can be acheived by counterpoint. Since you are an expatriate of the area, I suggest it would be very constructive if you could develop a few counterpoint comments so that we

1837:

It seems to me that this article is written from a "Skåneland regionalist separatist" bias; given that such views are held only by a very small minority of people of Scanian origin (I am an expatriate member of the latter), this article can hardly be deemed neutral, and can perhaps even be misleading

1314:

We do not cite sources that are inherently unreliable. Referencing a Wikiedia article without its own references is completely worthless since it's no better than referencing hearsay; how do we know that whatever is simply not as wildly inaccurate as this article was a few months ago? Knowledge (XXG)

1029:

I have been giving this some thoughts. I think that we should avoid confusing readers. We should instead mention in the article all different POVs for relevant sections, instead of putting on a tag making it seem like the entire article is under question. Unfortunately I don't know which sections are

680:

before protesting extrapolations from secondary sources? This article is in fact completely unreferenced and contains some very obvious errors and completely leaves out the origins of the term; even the misinterpretation of the name is misspelled. The onus of showing proper references lies on whoever

609:, who believed that describing the history of these provinces under Danish rule was a part of a bigger and more accurate common Scandinavian history, the term seems to have been basically hijacked by Scanian regionalists as way to construct a non-Swedish identity which is altogether a modern concept. 4211:

Do not mix up this area with the province of Scania itself. In Halland the Sweden Democrats got only 5,9 % of the vote (national average is 12,86 %). Therefore a statement calling "SKåneland a stronghold for the Sweden Democrats was deleted. The constiuency "Skåne läns norra och östra" with 22,16 %

4183:

There clearly needs to be some sort of delination between the regionalist ideas and the views of professional historians regarding both terminology and the region itsel. When is it relevant to talk of "Skåneland" and when is it not? Because it's very clear that modern day Skåne, Blekinge and Halland

4164:

I fully agree with you. This is just a short term for three Swedish provinces (and sometimes also a Danish one). The only thing they have in common is that they were part of Danmark until the Treaty of Roskilde. The term was coined by historians and should be used in historical contexts. But there a

4049:

was thrown out from the municipal council of Malmö in the last elections. And, by the way, what is really ment with ""State nationalism"? If there should be anything written about "Scanian regionalism" it should be moved to the article "Scania", because it has nothing to do with the other provinces.

3477:

or to make it an administrative area when and if the administrative subdivision of Sweden is revised are the most frequent users of this name. This last category seems to dominate here, Every effort to moderate them is quickly reverted. In most normal encyclopædias the term Skåneland is mentioned in

3122:

I read the current article through, and observed that there, scattered everywhere, is sentences trying just to justify the term "Skåneland", and not dealing with the region itself in an objective way. My opinion is that the Skåneland term will have an own section, and all those justifiction-oriented

2943:

When I first joined the Knowledge (XXG), the vast majority of Swedish articles used Latin names. After making a few comments like the one above, I took a Wikibreak from Oct—December, 2005. Upon returning, I found the Swedish articles had all been converted to the vulgate forms. If I recall correctly

1890:

Understood, and thanks Williamborg. There is an online Skånsk history book for Swedish schools now, funded by Skånes kulturförvaltning, called Terra Scaniae, aiming to support teachers in protecting and sharing the cultural heritage of Skåne with younger students. It's in Swedish, but you can check

1527:

Alas Wiglaf, I've not been to this article for some time—it not being one of my favorite haunts except for the periodic controversy it generates. Missed your comments until I tried to correlate the references with the text—Sawyer came up unquoted—hence I found your note. I'll grant that Sawyer is at

1381:

Although my interest in Skåneland is indirect, the controversy it generates indicates that there are important historical issues being dealt with here. The very passion of the debate makes it worth the effort – there is history still being made in Skåneland. So, with trepidation but also interest,

1345:

Also: Magnus Eriksson corresponded with Pope Benedikt XII in Avignon in 1339, requesting the Pope’s confirmation of his legitimacy as Rex Scaniae. On 28 June 1340 there is supposed to be a signing of a document by Magnus outlining the governance of Skåne, which named which men would escape taxation,

1210:

How is the intro biased? The term is not generally accepted in Sweden and is quite seldom used. It has no official status and is burdened by Scanian regionalists who love using it in revisionist historical contexts as way to build a Swedish/Scanian dichotomy. The intro merely explains the origins of

891:

seems to have been relevant to Halland, Blekinge and Skåne, but there needs to be some sort of contemporary medieval reference to a Skåneland with a common idendity (that isn't just a sense of being subjects of the Danish crown) to claim that the term was used in this periodd. And I still must point

3614:

The telephone book should of course not be used as a source, but it givs an impression of how much the name is used in everyday life. I do certainly not mean that the article should be deleted (as somebody proposed when it was newly written), but that even more stress should be put on the fact that

3493:

The "obvious facts" mentioned in points 1), 2) and 3) above are all accounted for in the article. So is the popular usage, explained in accordance with Nationalencyklopedin and one of the premier popular history magazine in Sweden, etc, etc. The complaint is too much information? And the request is

3185:

The article says that "Skåneland" is a member of the UNPO. Well, I dont think you can put it that way. Who is really representing the area in The UNPO? The elected County Council, or some other representative body? Of course not. But a very small private foundation (Stiftelsen Skånsk Framtid, SSF),

3081:

I am deeply skeptical to using the name "Scania" for the article, mostly because it's extremely confusing for anyone without knowledge of the subject. It also makes it that much more difficult to keep the Great Scanian regionalists at bay since the two terms are blurred. I am even more skeptical to

2985:

But you may be correct. The naming in English may be migrating & my examples may be outdated. Amusingly, I'd argue, the recent migration may be due to the influence of Knowledge (XXG); I note that material that I contributed to Knowledge (XXG) articles is starting to show up in guide books; why

1636:

Regardless, at my leisure I'll study these works more carefully and attempt to paraphrase Sawyer into a less controversial variation since this article seems to generate endless controversy and I certainly want to add only controversy which is consistent with a reasonably accurate representation of

1178:

I have taken the liberty of re-adding references to each individual paragraph as hidden comments. It is amusing that you often ask for sources, but when exact sources are provided you think it is unecessary. These references are useful for people wanting to check the accuracy of the text. I see not

1134:

My biggest problem was that the issue of the term being a modern conconction stemming from the time when nationalism and scandinavism were at their highest. I moved the paragraph based on the NE article to the intro to make it perfectly obvious. I appreciate that you state your sources, but there's

1076:

If you're refering to the "terra Scaniæ" as it is stated in NE, Fred, I wouldn't call it a proper source. It is clearly not a proper name and seems to be more of an extrapolation that Weibull himself has made with no further references. If it's not used in medieval texts as a free-standing name, it

1068:

Skåneland/"Terra Scania" is a term with obvious regionalistic overtones. I still haven't gone through all the articles in which it is used, but it seems to be applied though it was perfectly neutral and this is very, very inappropriate. Knowledge (XXG) should not pervey terminology which is clearly

620:

in a few historical sites (which are of course in Skåne) and predominantly by Scanian regionalists who range from the mildly excentric to the downright fanatic. In most cases a dichotomoy of fierce Scanian-Swedish rivalry is presented (though of course long since quelled by a brutal Swedish central

3709:

The problem is that there are four names in the title of this article (plus two translations): Skåneland, Skånelandskapen (Scanian Provinces), Terra Scaniae ("Scania Land") and Scania. One was used during medieval times, one was used in 18th-century poems etc, including in texts by Carl von Linne,

3589:

would be twice as controversial as Skåneland with its 70-something footnotes. Providing references is simply good policy as it encourages transparency and helps students find sources in a subject. Unfortunately, the yellow pages would probably not be considered a reliable source though, unless the

3451:

The obvious fact is that the term "Skåneland" is used: 1) In historical contexts as a common name for the three Swedish provinces which belonged to Denmark up until the Treaty of Roskilde. It is, however, more common to use the plural denomination "Skånelandskapen" in Swedish and "Skånelandene" in

3371:

Perhaps the system with state appointed governors (landhövdingar) is a bit old-fashioned. In neighboring Denmark a new system with larger regions will be introduced on January 1st, replacing the amts. I don´t no so very much about it. I am not even sure if there will be more self-government in the

3289:

power. If Skåneland is "underrepresented", which areas are then "overrepresented"? Stockholm perhaps. Yes that could be true, because it is the national capital. But I am sure Scania is not more "underrepresented" than any other county. It would be interesting with a debate here instead of en edit

3221:

Thank you! I think it is even more important to "moderate" these "club members" when they write in the English version. In Sweden everyone knows that these are really "fringe groups" (if they know about them at all). But on the international scene it is much more easy to make up the fiction of an

3158:

While the first use of the term is covered quite well, the second, today more common, association of the term is not very well described in the article (other than a short and not very clear mention in the 'Official status' section). I suggest describing this more clearly in the article and adding

2029:

Thanks FredrikT. You are right. The perspective and lack of detail is deceptive, as it is the only church in the illustration, but after your message I have looked again at the battle line in other drawings from this period, and I definitely agree with you that this one must be meant to illustrate

1629:

It might be worth remembering Moberg’s comment: “In 1866 the Swedish Government appointed a commission to draw up directives for the contents of history books. Such text books should breath a ‘patriotic spirit’ and foster ‘national political awareness.’” He went on to suggest four traits dominated

1508:

According to ninth century Frankish sources, by the early 9th century many of the chieftains in the south of Scandinavia acknowledged Danish kings as their overlords. The west and south coast of modern Sweden was so effectively under Danish control that the area was known as Denmark (literally the

1385:

In the effort I had the occasion to read some of Vilhelm Moberg’s work. His ability to take what appears to be a critical but balanced view is impressive. His birth in Småland leaves one wondering whether some of his views represent the product of the turmoil in Småland/ Skåneland (well - actually

1338:

About Skåneland: The Swedish Academy in their 1719 entry about Skåneland says "Skåneland (består) uti afskillde och nog synlige delar af skog och slättmark. 2RA 1: 4 (1719)." The Academy also has a quote by Carl von Linné (aka Carolus Linnaeus), the Father of Taxonomy, using 'Skåne land.' LINNÉ Sk

1214:

As for the sources, adding sources for every paragraph just looks like bad layout and is really not an appropriate way of referencing. Either you make in-text citaitons, notes or you simply skip them altogether. This article is so small that it hardly needs anything but a list of literature. But I

3325:

I am sorry, but I thought it was your section, because you always put it back. I don't know if there are any research made about "feelings of underrepresentation" in any part of Sweden. I have never heard of any. But I don't think that Scanians in general feel more underrepresented than people in

1906:

So might makes right? Do you mean to say that all articles on regions should be required to take a "centralists" stance to be considered neutral, at the expense of local voices of discontent with the centralizing force, or does this apply only to Skåne? If so, why? Perhaps you consider it crucial

1310:

The intro states in a very neutral fashion that Martin Weibull invented the term "Skånelandskapen" in 1868 which has of lately become "Skåneland" and explains his own reasoning for it. I haven't seen you cite anything that actually questions this fact. Does Ambrius say otherwise? If so, cite some

903:

Is this image of Scanians as some sort of supressed ethnic and cultural really accurate? I'm sure there were plenty of Swedish purges of pro-Danish administrators and guerilla fighters, but I don't see how this would have been an ethnic thing. Any rebellious province in this era would receive the

3685:

on the WP. I am not an expert on historical terminology, but I think this term should be very proper for an area like this. This is really not a geographical, political or administrative entity. The name is not commonly used in everyday life and it is not on maps, roadsigns, company names or the

1811:

I just don't know. "Terra Scania" is only barely used in English and the usage of it in Swedish is... well... somewhat dubious. I'm not going to lean either way, except that if we go for anything other than "Skåneland", then it'll have to be the Latin term (without a capital "t"), because "Terra

1544:

The deleted material, attributed to Sawyer, was: "The earliest historians, writing in the 12th and 13th century, believed that the Danish Kingdom had existed since time immemorial, while the kingdoms of Norway and Sweden were formed in the 10th and 11th century, each by consolidation of multiple

1052:

I do think this article has merit - and suspect that the choice of terms is being debated as a much more serious disagreement on the nature of the region as part of Sweden - but am not particularly qualified to join the discussion. The article and the continuing reverts are symptomatic of a real

3537:

This seems to be one of those controversial topics there almost every sentence needs a reference. Thats O.K. with me. I just must visit a library and serch for reliable sources. And that may take some time, as I am not employed or paid for doing this. One problem, however, is that there is much

3311:

personally think that the regionalist sentiments in Scania have nothing in common with the sentiments of other regionalist movements around the world. And who are you? I don't think I see your name under "Notes and references". If you have a reputable source in mind, giving scholarly/researched

1622:

Sweden as a single kingdom in which the Svear of Mälardalen were united with the Götar in acknowledging the Uppsala king. But this is certainly an over-simplificaiton. The Götar were themselves divided into the Västgötar and the Östgötar by Vättern and as late as 1018 Pope Gregory VII addressed

1588:

This does accurately reflect Sawyer's views. I recognize it might in some way be viewed as pejorative to Sweden's heritage—they were not always as large a country as they are today—but I'd mostly read it as a simple commentary that the former borders of Denmark were greater than the current day

1365:

Since SAOB has sources that proves that the term was used already in the 1700s I changed the beginning of the origin section to say: "The Swedish term "Skåneland" has been used since atleast the 1700s, but was popularized by the Swedish historian and Scandinavist Martin Weibull in his political

3390:

Please supply a source that contradicts Moberg if the contention is that other scholars disagree with Moberg's assessment of fighting on Scanian soil. Deleting sourced material (especially from a well-known and reputable source) is frowned upon. Also: there were incidents in Scania due to wars

3169:

I agree. This article is about to "create" some kind of "country" which does not exist. "Skåneland" consists of three provinces in southern Sweden, which in 1658 were ceded from the Danish crown to the Swedish crown. That's it! During the almost 350 years which have elapsed since that time the

638:

As it was phrased there, it would be better to remove it, yes - it's not "used almost exclusively by Scanian regionalists" today. It could probably be reworded to fit the article more, but I don't see the paragraph as strictly necessary... I wouldn't complain if a minor note was made about it,

4008:

In the beginning of the article there is a sentence stating that "In Scania, Swedish nationalism, which often alludes to slogans such as "Keep Sweden Swedish", is resisted by many regionalists as being intolerant of Scania's cultural diversity and Danish history, and as being non-inclusive of

3018:

I admit that some of the Latin derived names for Swedish regions are a little comical but it's tiring to hear similiarities of English names with Latin as a constant put-down (this is especially common with Polish and South Slavic regions). Should English change its names for Russia, Africa,

1996:

Couldn't the following sentence be a little bit confusing: "As a result, in the Treaty of Roskilde (1658) Denmark ceded the provinces of Skåne, Blekinge and Halland (i.e., Skåneland)". It did actually also mean that Trøndelag, Bohuslän and Bornholm were ceded to Sweden. Might be particularly

967:

I would really like to remove the dispute-sign, but there's still the problem of "Terra Scaniæ" being treated as a term actually used in medieval times. It is treated as a proper name, which it does not seem to be. It seems to me to simply have been a pretty vague term that translates to "the

4028:

You are of course very right in your observations. Furthermore there is no "Scanian regionalism" at all when it comes to the territory here referred to as "Skåneland". The fact is that "Skåneland" is a purely historical term, not used in everyday life regarding today's reality. The political

3546:

used. I did not mean "popularity contest". But the term is very seldom (I would say almost never) used in "everyday speech", in daily newspapers, wheather forecasts, tourism promoting, company names etc. There are only four names found in the "Yellow pages" (nation-wide) involving that term.

483:

Well, why don't you produce a non-web related source for it youself, then? If I can't use a googling to support an attempt to make it more NPOV, then you'll have to prove that it's supported by serious sources in the current state. Otherwise you're just reverting basing on your own opinions.

3302:

Mr Nilsson, the section which you are disputing (which, by the way, was not authored by me), is not making any claim whatsoever about how Scanian regionalism compares or does not compare with other movements, and neither does it make claims about how closely related or how different various

2140:. I think this is the best solution for English Knowledge (XXG) under the circumstances, as Scania appears to be name used for both the modern entity in recent English-language media and scholarship, and for the larger, historic entity, especially as it relates to the early medieval period. 2981:

But I do like the standard that it actually be the most commonly used form by English language authors. This is because that is where those who speak only English are most likely to find it that way, and because we are not changing the accepted usage by the substantial influence Knowledge

926:* The things I wrote were probably a little harsh and one sided. But I am disturbed by the hostile occupation, done for no reason other than a desire to conquer. I assume most Scanians felt the same in 1658. How would you feel if Stockholm was overtaken and you were forced to learn Finnish? 2939:

The use of Latin terms like Scania (& Jemtia & Bohusia & …) is most common among people educated in Sweden who write in English (and most common in their scholarly texts). I think it may be a vestige of the requirement that one must be proficient in Latin in the mediaeval and

3718:

without having to separate the names into different articles? Notice that the article about the Byzantine Empire deals elegantly with the historiographical issue (i.e. what names have been used for the Byzantine Empire throughout that entity's history) in detail, already in the lead:

3372:

regions compared with the present system. I am myself not an opponent of more power to regional councils. But I think that it must be the same degree of self-government in all parts of Sweden, not more in some parts and less in other parts. But this is perhaps another discussion. --

4045:) have got a representation (5,89 % of the votes). They are very small and without representation in Blekinge and Halland. "Scanian regionalists" have no representation whatsoever in any regional or municipal council neither in Scania nor in the other provinces since the xenophobic 1531:

I do recognize this is a highly controversial topic with some of Swedish heritage (and some with Swedish/Skåneland heritage) and will attempt to be thoughtful if I elect to restore Sawyer. My goal is not to incite riots—balanced reporting (not uncotroversial—just balanced) is the

3456:

is almost never included in this term. There is just a "local legend" about that on the island. I cannot understad why this local legend is considered so very important. It could be mentioned in the Anholt article of course. 3) Skåneland is also sometimes used synonymously with

3357:

instead of being productive for the good of the citizens. Faced with this situation, several of my County Governor colleagues rally around the slogan: 'Hands off my county'". we were supposed to coordinate is gone." (My translation. Article in Swedish.) Later and best wishes,

3338:

have some reputable source in mind, giving scholarly/researched information about how Scanian people in general (not just the decided regionalists) feel about the way the "centralist state" is handling the issue of regional representation, then please do make a contribution.

1249:

Stating unreferenced Knowledge (XXG) article as sources is pretty much original research. Please remove them. And just like it is bad to have no references at all, it is just as bad to over-reference. Especially with sources that are completely unmerited and inthemselves

2944:(& since my son & daughter-in-law will arrive in ½ hour for a several day visit, I’m relying on my flimsy memory) the consensus was that we ought to use the form most common in English language publications about Sweden by folks whose native language was English. 884:

I'd like to see some reference to a medieval concept of a Skåneland. As far as I know, the individual provinces were the most relevant administrative provinces at the time, and this new concept of a unified Great-Skåne is a 19th century attempt to construct a historical

1514:

Note that Williamborg states that there was a Danish kingdom but also that there were only chieftains in Sweden. Surely, Sawyer is worth being mentioned, but if this information is a correct reflection of that scholar's POVs and hypotheses, they have to be presented as

4191:

And we really need to get rid of sources Ambrius and the likes when establishing historical "facts". They can certainly be used as examples of regionalist history writing, but not for any description of a specifically Scanian identity, be it Danish, Swedish or wholly

3721:

During much of its history it was known to many of its Western contemporaries as the 'Empire of the Greeks' ...To its inhabitants, the Empire was simply the 'Roman Empire (Βασιλεία Ῥωμαίων)' or 'Romania (Ῥωμανία).' In the Islamic world it was known primarily as

3303:

separatists/regionalist movements are to Scanian regionalism---or about whether or not such feelings of underrepresentation are warranted. It is simply stating that regionalists movements are often driven by a sense of underrepresentation. Thank you for asking,

917:* I have not found any concrete reference that terra Scaniae was used to reference for all Skånelandskapen. I would however consider it likely that a joint (or common?) term was used to describe the eastern Danish land area, just as we have Jylland and Själland. 4188:) or such, with a separate overview of demographics, climate and whatnot. The region's distinctly Danish identity before Swedish consolidation of power in the early 18th century is not in doubt. But it's unclear to what extent it was actually a cohesive region. 2996:

than debate the name. I’d be willing to pitch in if someone wants to critique it & identify what needs to be upgraded. As far as Swedish naming conventions go, I rather hold with Chief Joseph, “From where the sun now stands I will fight no more forever.”

1528:

best a derivative source (historians are always so - as is Knowledge (XXG)). I'll go back to look at the material you removed and see whether the original quote was accurate (make sure I didn't misquote) and then see if there is a basis for Sawyer's assertion.

1447:

The earliest historians, writing in the 12th and 13th century, believed that the Danish Kingdom had existed since time immemorial, while the kingdoms of Norway and Sweden were formed in the 10th and 11th century, each by consolidation of multiple small

1788:. Currently, "Terra Scania" is the most used term in such articles, which is (as you pointed out) not correct to begin with. "Terra Scaniae" is maybe correct, but it is Latin. So give your suggestion.... you can also see this section of my talk page: 3615:

it is a historical term. I am not going to try to prove some "unpopularity". As you said yourself it is not a "popularity contest". I do not think the term is either "popular" nor "impopular". Most people simply don't need to describe the provinces

3401:

The text talks about fighting in Scania "or other border provinces". If somebody is checking a list of years, please also include possible fighting in Norway and Holstein. It might be the explanation if a year seems to be missing regarding Scania.

3209:, you are entirely correct. To say that Skåneland is represented in the UNPO is completely false when in fact it is a small private foundation, SSF, calling it a 'club' would probably be more correct, that is a member. I'll support you on this one! 1318:

Since you don't trust me, just have a look at various FAs. They don't reference every paragraph. And what's the point of hammering this "it's just an opinion"-argumentation? I'm trying to tell you it makes the article looks worse, not insult your

684:

Has anyone noticed that all three external links lead to regionalist sites, by the way? And if you take a look at the edit history, you'll notice that Ruhrjung wouldn't even allow the most obvious one to be commented as a regionalist organization

2896:(London, Aug. 20, 2001, HEADLINE: Bridge of size opens economic laboratory, BODY: Scania's so-called Medicon Valley attracted investment of $ 800 million between 1997 and 1999, with up to ten big new companies moving into the region each year.) 1138:

I must stress the importance that you use the proper titles for your sources, by the way. Preferably with the ISBN numbers. I'm also a bit sceptical to using other Knowledge (XXG) articles (especially anything from the seriously dysfunctional

3519:.) Also: I suspect there is a language problem: there is no popularity contest implied. "Modern popular usage" means only "usage by or usage aimed at nonspecialists: designed to appeal to or be comprehensible to the nonspecialist". See also " 3672:

In December last year I made a change to this article, calling the denomination "Skåneland" "historiographic", a word I had just recently found. This change was soon deldeted. Now I have found out that this term is very suitable. E.g. the

3538:

easier to find sources for the occasional times when this term is actually used in "popular usage" (the term is actually mentioned in these sources) than to find sources for the "non-using" of the term. After all you cannot mention

943:* For the last argument, I would reference you to the last paragraph in the first article I gave above. I do hope you read the article in entity even if it is a lot more than just basic references, because I think it will be useful. 1701:

I'm currently changing links from Terra Scania to "Scanian lands". As P.I. pointed out, Terra Scania is an incorrect form -- it has to be Terra Scaniae to be correct, and in those cases, "Scanian lands" is a direct translation. //

1013:

I have been writing to the best of my ability. I am fully aware that the article is not NPOV. If you have additional sources (and I know that you are knowledgeable in history) feel free to add material that would balance it out.

3736:

article right now, as that article is undergoing work after having been delisted..and since it seems to rely extensively on a source from 1904 called "The Historians' History of the World". The "historians' history" and the

1048:

Unnskyld - no intent to offend. Just trying to stay neutral while doing some copy editing on an interesting article. My changes seemed minor to me - I tried not to change the intent, but simply catch spelling and some minor

968:

country/land of Skåne". Please remove it if you can't find any actual contemporary references to it. Also, this dichotomy of "Scanian" vs "Swedish" still seems over-simplified. Could this somehow be explained in the text?

461:

is your source for the claim that the term "today is used almost exclusively by Scanian 'regionalists'" — indeed remarkable and unexpected from someone whom I've considered rather overzealous in his demands for scholarly

3710:

one is used, as you have yourself pointed out repeatedly, by Scanians who wish to stress their belonging to a certain cultural region, one is favored by some historians, another by other historians. If it is the term

1077:

should not be capitalized and the text be changed. This might seem a bit petty, but what I've seen so far seems to be unambiguous evidence that the entire concept of Skåneland is nothing but a 19th century invention.

3082:

calling it "Skåne" (or worse yet, "Skaane"). "Scania (historical region)" has to be the worst suggestion, though, since the province of Scania is mostly historical as well, even if it might be a more recent concept.

659:). If you suspect only regionalists use the term, back it up. But if you actually want to claim your sources as: "Doing 20 searches on google for the term, 18 were pages of regionalists" then I wouldn't object. -- 2977:

In one sense it doesn’t matter a great deal which we use in the article, as long as we have a logic for our use & are consistent; Knowledge (XXG) is a relational database & can link either way equally

1938:

I'll leave the nomination open for a week if the dates can be fixed/explained quickly I'll promote. The list is something that can be considered and discussed later I wont hold GA promotion up because of this

3848:

The sections that need referencing should be referenced by those who wrote them. If they don't, I'll try to find some references for the sections, and if I can't find any, I'll remove or rewrite the sections

3783:. In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that may need to be addressed, listed below. I will check back in seven days. If these issues are addressed, the article will remain listed as a 3353:: "My State County Governors are still stuck in the 17th Century power structure which everybody else left behind. Too often, we in the State organization are competing for things to do and fighting over the 937:. I know you can distinguish true facts, and all though I know my material isn't NPOV, it isn't complete wrong either. We probably have to give "both" sides (unlike NF) as both are being expressed in Scania. 3159:

links to the various groups which advocate the term Skåneland (for example, it is the association Stiftelsen Skånsk Framtid (SSF) which 'represents' Scania in the UNPO (which has nothing to do with the UN).

3776: 2187:, in a modern context, exists for a place, we should use it. … If the place does not exist anymore, or the article deals only with a place in a period when it held a different name, the widely accepted 717:

Skånelandskapen, de skånska landskapen, Skåneland, da. Skåneland(ene), samlingsbenämning på de från Danmark till Sverige 1658 avträdda landskapen Blekinge, Halland och Skåne, ibland även innefattande ön

3133:

I agree. The article seems more concerned with regionalism and links with Denmark rather than focusing on the region as such. As Skåneland is mainly used by regionalists, this might be fitting, though.

4184:

are not referred to as "Skåneland" except for an insignificant minority, most of whom appear to be local Scanian patriots. It can't be treated like just another Swedish county, historical provinces (

419:

It would be nice to see a source for this. My experience of the term is solely from historical contexts, where the term obviously is used, and ...from my experience... more so than in the context of

1865:

might provide a point of view you judge represents both sides of the controversy accurately. If you're not comfortable putting new text in the main article, add it here and we'll help you refine it.

448:

Well. The paragraph is wrong. The basic assumption behind the paragraph is wrong. Rewording it wouldn't help much, and... besides, the content belongs to an article on Scanian separatists, not here!

2867:. I also ran a Lexis Nexis search, but I was unable to find a single English speaking media outlet using Skåne. I had more luck with a Google news search: it reveled this source as a "Skåne" user: 2989:

Regardless, I'll consider your examples above more carefully when I get some free time. And I'll get out of my personal library into the university library to see what is used by the modern world.

4087: 854:

refers to them as a collective. IMHO, it does not really matter what term is given in the article as long as the introductory paragraph clarifies the terminology. I would not recommend the term

1405:

come from an unreferenced source on Swedish Knowledge (XXG). I have not wanted to remove it. Can this be attested in your literature, so we can remove the reference to Swedish wikipedia? --

929:

I am having difficulties taking quotes from NF as my material is interweaved there, so I hope you accept reading a few pages and make your own opinion. "Modern history of Skåne" starts on

826:

Actually I won't. The terms Skånelandskapen is used on historical pages and not on regionalistic. If you yourself don't think that is significant enough to mention, then I won't either. --

786:

Since the use of the Latin term is not something that is actually historical, but rather just a part of Weibull's justification for the term "Skånelandskapen", and just another one of

1589:

country, while those of Sweden were smaller than the current day country. If one still feels nationalistic pride in a global age, this should actually speak well for Sweden's prowess.

1053:

divergence in POVs, which is by itself worthy of a Wiki entry. After work I may come back to it and think about whether I can understand the concerns which make it so controversial.

1339:

III (1751). If the use is biased, then maybe he was a closet regionalist too, being born so close to the border in Småland? (He, he, sorry couldn't resist). Here's the link, again,:

2900:(Oct. 3, 1987, SECTION: World politics and current affairs; EUROPE; Pg. 50 (U.K. Edition Pg. 50) HEADLINE: A bridge too far, BODY: "IN SCANIA, the southern province of Sweden,.."), 3104:

historical regions of Sweden, the three which used to be part of Denmark: Scania, Halland and Blekinge. To call Skåneland "Scania (historical region)" would be highly confusing.

1637:

someone else’s views if I don’t know the material from first-hand experience (& I know very little historical material from first hand experience but it increases every day).

4318: 122: 3967:

Thanks very much to everyone for the work that's been done on this article. I'm closing this review now as a keep. It's a very nice article, you've done your subject proud. --

940:

Also, I find it appropriate to refer to the hostile takeover in 1658 in this article of Skånelandskapen because it was not only Skåne that was taken over, but Skånelandskapen.

3573:

Yes, Denmark did the surrendering of the four provinces (the provinces did not surrender individually, if that's what you mean), after which they were most certainly treated

3547:

Furthermore, two of them are societies promoting the agenda. I therefore think this article should stress on the fact that the name Skåneland (or Skånelandskapen) is used in

3585:. Secondly, about references: the number of references does not directly correlate with the amount of controversy over facts in articles: if that was the case, the article 2175: 1146:

And a Scandinavist is as far as I know a person who is devoted to the cause of joining the Scandinavian countries into one, a pretty popular movement in the 19th century.

3312:

information about how Scanian regionalists feel about the way the centralist state is handling the issue of regional representation, then please do make a contribution.

1366:

appeal Samlingar till Skånes historia in 1868(...)" I don't know if Weibull popularized the term, but we can be sure he didn't invent it, wich the article used to say. /

628:

a genuine historical term, but a modern construction and denying the fact that it's used almost exclusively by Scanian regionalists is a very serious violation of NPOV.

581:

and on the Internet I am, if anything, even more convinced of the fact that this article is heavily POV:ed. For one thing, the term "Terra Scania" (actually Terra Scani

402:

The term is today used almost exclusively by Scanian regionalists as a way to claim a historical continuity of a non-Swedish Scanian identity. This includes claimes of

2481: 2295: 652:

My experience is that Skåneland for many means "Country of Skåne" as though it was a country of its own, and don't know what the academical (or historical) meaning is.

900:) does not seem to be a proper name, but merely a description, like saying "the lands of Bavaria" , which is hinted at in the NE-article since it is not capitalized. 1606:

As one might expect of a historian, Sawyer spent extensive time reviewing primary sources. Sawyer preferred sources contemporaneous with the arguably less reliable

1899:

and the Codex runicus, a vellum manuscript dating from c. 1300, for those who are interested in cutting their teeth on runes by reading Skånelagen in runic form.

4066:

I can only agree and I have now removed the section. My intention was to move it to the article "Scania", but there is already a lot about "regionalism" there. --

2167:

form for Swedish names once prevailed in English-language Wiki-articles on Sweden. I'm pleased to see that this form (rarely used in English) has almost died out.

3997:

nationalism since it is really just "Swedish nationalism" and not at all supported by the State. If it is to be characterised as anything I would prefer Swedish

3808:

The left-aligned image of the historian Martin Weibull is squeezing the text between it and the right-aligned image opposite, and overwriting the text behind it.

2730:

Should you decide to move the article, and I'm not fully convinced it must be moved, I'd caution you to be careful to retain the history and discussions. Skål -

791: 3478:

one or two sentences. My question above got no answer. I hope for better luck this time. It is better to discuss instead of changing the article too often. --

1358:. Not having any way of linking to it, I have created the result a sub page to this talk page. It is in Swedish but should be useful for Swedish editors. See 2884:(Montreal, Quebec)(Nov. 25, 2000, Pg. G3, HEADLINE: Opening Sweden's deep south: People of the Scania region boast they enjoy life more than other Swedes.), 3555:

was not ceded by Denmark as a whole in 1658. There is one instrument of surrender for each one of the provinces. Not even at that time the area was treated

3913:

The only book I have on Skåne in one by Ingvar Andersson that covers the time 1200-1500 so the references I add come from whatever I find on the internet.

3724:" If you'd like to author a similar section about historiography in order to introduce the word "historiographical" for some uses of for example the term 375: 3795:. Feel free to drop a message on my talk page if you have any questions, and many thanks for all the hard work that has gone into this article thus far. 1420:

I originally left it in the original since I suspect it is essential true, although haven't verified it by counting. I'll delete it, replacing it with a

1225:

Do you call that arguments? To me it looks like this " Because I think.. bla bla bla so this is correct" "I think bla bla bla , so this must be correct".

3263:

The long amalgamation of Skåneland with Sweden would suggest that the area is generally "Swedified" and that separatism represents a minority viewpoint.

676:

Skåne as a seperate country is the very essence of Scanian regionalism, isn't it? As for conclusions based on secondary sources, how about showing some

270: 2196:

I researched my histories of Sweden & Scandinavia for precedents in discussions of the relevant historic period(s) to identify the widely accepted

1461:

et al, because it is plain wrong as far as Sweden is concerned. Moreoever, most these sources talk of the founding of Denmark under the legendary king

1185:

I just want to point out that the first paragraph, somewhat based on NE, is biased. Just because NE writes something doesn't mean it is the only truth.

4264:}} tag is set on this article (and has been since 2014). Is there still an ongoing dispute? If there is, I'm not trying to interfere, just wondering. 2171: 989:

Again, I'd like to see some references to medieval usage of "Terra Scaniæ" as an actual name for the region. This is not just a matter of neutrality.

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English name should be used. If neither of these apply, the modern official name or the modern local historical name should be used, respectively.”

920:

According to Ambrius, the term "Skoneland" has been found in Danish formal letters and decrees from before 1658, but was not used in common speech.

4448: 4273: 605:("the Skåne provinces", also knownn as "Skåneland") on this old geographic term, though they were not identical. Though he was himself actually a 260: 4090:, I think it is best to remove the "nobots" tag completely and see if user Thijs' modifications work. We can re-add it if the problem re-occurs. 3100:

is in herself a historical region, or historical province if you may. Skåneland is equivalent, as far as I know, to the combined territories of

2109:

Scania is seemingly the most common name used in English for the historical region and this title would disambiguate it form the modern region,

839:

After checking with NE -- which I don't have available at home -- I see that you are correct in your additions. I will however do more research.

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I suggest (1) we change "Swedish state nationalism" to "anti-immigration" and take out the sentence referred to in point 2 above. Any comments?

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First of all, read the text. Do you think it is fair that I should respond to criticism that is answered in the text? This is a waste of time.

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for why "terra Scaniæ" is not the appropriate article title. I also suggest comparing Google searches for "Skåneland" and "Skånelandskapen".

47: 4453: 4360: 4148:

Considering this article is about a geographic term that didn't exist until 1720, why is it relevant to describe its medieval history? Which

3989:

Hi, I have two problems with statements in the article regarding the relationship between Scanian regionalism and Swedish state nationalism:

3646:

Several people, including myself, have tried to "moderate" this article. But it is not so easy. Some of us have almost given up. Good luck!--

3384: 2865: 2859: 2856: 2853: 2847: 2844: 2841: 2838: 2835: 2832: 2829: 2826: 2823: 2820: 2817: 2814: 2811: 2808: 2805: 2802: 2796: 2791: 2788: 2779: 2776: 2773: 2770: 2767: 1846:

As a general rule, we'd appreciate if you'd sign your work. It's easy—just add four ~ in a row and save—it automatically signs your comments.

1757:

form of "Scania", not an adjective. I don't actually know what the proper adjective form of "Scania" would be, but I'm gonna guess "scanica".

4109:

The article uses the following sources which are problematic since they are not written by professional or generally recognized historians.

3799:

The ribbon of images down the righthand side of the article is causing layout problems. I'd suggest using a table format to fix that, as in

2862: 2850: 341: 42: 2799: 1853:— The term is not used in official contexts and is seldom used by Swedes, though being more popular within the region itself and with many 3437:" are used), 2) a term used by people who want to out-distance these provinces from the rest of the country for some reason or another. -- 437:. It certainly seems to be a popular term by regionalists, and I don't see why the entire paragraph was removed instead of just reworded. 236: 4165:

some indiduals and organisations out there, trying to make it "bigger" than it really is. Most Encyclopedias have very short articles. --

3842:

Thanks for reviewing and for your own fixes to the article. It was a fair review in my opinion, and I agree with the issues you mention.

2702:

Since Skaane, Skane & Skåne are essentially equivalent, and since Skåne clearly dominates the common English usage, I believe that a

3742: 1877:

Note that I revised the article in an attempt to reach a more balanced content. But any suggestions for improvement are always welcome.

1812:

Scania" is just a faux representation of something that wasn't even a proper name to begin with. At least that's how I've understood it.

4356: 3943:

There's really only one area where I think a further citation is needed, Bornholm Rebellion, so I've added a {{fact}} tag for that. --

3591: 3524: 2103: 2088: 1386:

not wondering - he did represent the Småland/ Skåneland smallholder view). It is unfortunate he did not get to complete his history.

549: 3222:"opressed Scanian nation". I Turkey there have already been newspaper articles describing Scania in the way we write about Kurdistan! 1932:

The date overlaps are disturbing has anybody check to confirm they are right. maybe a quick comment to clarify might be of some use.

38: 32: 4458: 2652: 2631: 2596: 2523: 2502: 2467: 2414: 2330: 1780:

I actually just want a geographical name for the area. What about Scanian provinces or Scanian land? In historical articles such as

4443: 4341: 3876:

Do we really need so many images in the article? Three maps from roughly the same period depicting the same land area. I'll keep

1215:

consider it completely inappropriate to cite other Knowledge (XXG) articles. It is basically no better than referencing hearsay.

2904:(Dec. 03, 1997 and January 25, 1997, SECTION: NEWS, HEADLINE: SWEDISH SCANIA COUNTY TO JOIN POMERANIA EUROREGION.) Best wishes. 1545:

small kingdoms. Eighth century sources do confirm the existence of Denmark as a kingdom then. Ninth century sources mention the

332: 293: 4438: 2153:

My friends, beware of these things. Of making name changes there is no end, and much disputation is a weariness of the flesh.

870:

Before removing the new historical material, could you please list your arguments here first so that I can respond to them? --

227: 188: 163: 3883:

The "References in popular culture" section feels unnecessary and incomplete, I don't mind if it's removed from the article.

2092: 923:* My Latin is not really good. I think -ae in this case indicates genetive? That is: "the lands/areas/countries of Scania". 1630:

older “national Swedish histories: 1. ultra-royalism, 2. ultra-patriotism, 3. ultra-heroism & 4. historical casuistry.”

4333: 1243:

Well, at least they are proper arguments and deserve to be responded to with more than just incivilities. I'll summarize:

1010:

You write that the neutrality will be contested by those who have a different POV -- well this seems self evident to me?!

235:-related articles on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join 1069:

nonstandard and in itself POV just because it's practical. If it's not used by Swedes in general, this should be stated--

2936:& to my chagrin, couldn’t resist—this is an old discussion that we resurrect—guess I couldn’t resist doing it again. 1509:

frontier of the Danes). In the ninth century, various Svear chieftains gathered tribute in Finland and northern Russia.

4145:

Most of them are also published by various Scanian regionalist organizations which makes it an issue with POV as well.

4269: 2096: 1935:

Also you talk about pre 1658 when the area was part of Denmark, wouldn't a list of kings prior etc also be pertinant.

4411:

since Sept. 2014. I am not sure if the tag is still appropriate, but if it is, this article needs to be delisted per

3452:

Danish. 2) Sometimes Bornholm (which was included in the treaty, but went back to Denmark in 1660) also is included.

3910:

Okay, I removed the "Reference in popular culture" section. I think the images look alright now, good job with that.

1949:

I'm doing some research into the governor generals. It appears there was one Governor General of the Scanian Lands (

1272:#1 The intro is biased because it consideres NE to be = the truth. Since we have other sources, this is not neutral. 529: 3972: 3948: 3832: 1275:#2 Your point is that we should not give references if they are from Swedish wiki? Well, "references" mean to cite 3880:

because it has the highest resolution and detail. I'll remove some more images and try to fix the layout problems.

20: 3578: 1979:

Well done with the quick response I have promoted the Article, Well done to all have contributed to this article

4095: 3762: 3497:. The same goes for mentions of Danish or Denmark in the lead of articles about this historically Danish region 3068: 2868: 2710:

if you think that is relevant—but recognize that some of the current Skåneland article deals with modern issues.

2137: 2083: 1971: 1958: 1789: 1737: 1707: 1626:

So I suspect Sawyer’s assertions are not completely casual, even if they don’t match what you learned in school.

1470:

Eighth century sources do confirm the existence of Denmark as a kingdom then. Ninth century sources mention the

1410: 1290: 1233: 1193: 1112: 1038: 1022: 951: 875: 831: 817: 664: 2680: 1030:

being disputed so I can't do it. I have given a reference to where I have found term "terra Scaniae" mentioned.

169: 3746: 3285:

power than the County Councils of the other counties of Sweden. Not very much more perhaps, but at least not

2888:(London,England, Jun. 13, 1991, Pg. 32 HEADLINE: Oresund 2; Business city planned near Copenhagen - Denmark), 858:

as it is hardly ever used, and its oldest usage seems ambiguous. Mic seems to have had a passion for Latin.--

2974:

I’d predict we will hunt back and forth between the Latin & vulgar names many times as new editors join.

553: 3741:, including terms (and views on nationalistic perspectives), have changed a little since 1904, I'm afraid. 3516: 3425:

an administrative subdivision. However, I would like to express some wievs on this topic: The denomination

1967: 1954: 1849:

The article may show a "Skåneland regionalist separatist" bias. But I found that the section which reads, “

1733: 1703: 1406: 1286: 1229: 1189: 1108: 1034: 1018: 947: 871: 827: 813: 660: 545: 521:

was hardly a "regionalist" (rather a Scandinavist and anti-nationalist); but to dig up his works, and then

37:, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the 4265: 3595: 3528: 3279:"background information about political underrepresentation as a driving element in regionalism in Europe" 2016: 1359: 4152:

have actually described Skåneland as a cohesive region, separate from the history of Denmark or Sweden?

3968: 3944: 3828: 3008: 3004: 2735: 2731: 2718: 2714: 340:

on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

4381: 3766: 103: 3334:

this was a general feeling, regionalist parties should have more support among the electorate. But if

2081:, so what about changing to a form that is used in several other similar situations in Europe, namely 1861:.” is rather clear to most of us non-Swedes. The history makes the context for the disagreement clear. 4236: 4091: 3916:

To reviewer: If there is particular statements that need references, could you add "cite"-tag for it?

3845:

I can fix the layout, unless some of the more involved editors do it first. I'll wait for a few days.

3582: 2163:

Naming disputes have gone on within Wiki-Sweden for some time. The more pedantic, academic sounding

1340: 578: 432:

When I Googled for it, I got (like you mentioned) a bunch sites on history and then links like these

2031: 1140: 708: 151: 4071: 4038: 3877: 3699: 3625: 3564: 3483: 3053: 2763: 2122: 1839: 4412: 3577:

as one dominion by the victor. They became one dominion ruled by one Governor General, namely the

2039: 4285: 4246: 4195: 4155: 3354: 3109: 3085: 2660: 2538: 2475: 2289: 1516: 859: 3780: 3429:

is hardly ever used in everyday life. It is 1) a technical term used by historians (more often "

2706:, in a modern context, exists for the place, and that is Skåne. I would suggest you should use 1503:(7th c.), sources among which Tacitus mentions a Swedish kingdom as early as the 1st century. 4303: 3738: 3586: 2927: 2649: 2628: 2593: 2520: 2499: 2464: 2411: 2327: 642: 536: 469: 407: 4394:

Unresolved POV tag. While it is not meant to be a badge of shame there is discussion on the p

3036: 2960: 1403:

In total, the area was invaded by interchanging hostile armies 39 times between 1276 and 1710

435: 4420: 4018: 3923: 3893: 3861: 3694:. Please, correct me if I am wrong. Are there anybody wanting to support me in this case? -- 3674: 3403: 3152:

Today, however, it is really mainly (only?) used by fringe Scanian separatists/regionalists.

1878: 1869: 1643: 1611: 1607: 1536: 1488: 1458: 1454: 1439: 1425: 1392: 1054: 756: 656: 3873:

A fair review indeed, and I think your task force is doing a good and very important work.

3792: 3788: 2056:

You're welcome! And by the way - nice to find another ex-student of Lund University here! /

4217: 4170: 4055: 3651: 3520: 3462: 3242: 2673: 2547: 2035: 1401:

There is actually another thing I'd like ask your efforts on... This section in the text:

677: 411: 308: 287: 4149: 4046: 4034: 4030: 4029:

landscapes of the three Swedish provinces concerned are really rather different. Only in

3784: 2993: 2114: 1623:

letters to two separate kings of the ‘Visigoths’, by which he probably meant the Götar."

1101:

I do not, however, appreciate that you do not give proper respect to other contributers.

423:, that in the case of Sweden and Scania seems to be led by the Swedish government. :-) 203: 182: 4067: 3800: 3715: 3695: 3621: 3560: 3479: 3438: 2019:

in the early 16th centure and after that used as a local source of building material. /

2012: 1998: 1980: 1940: 1916: 1519: 1421: 1367: 744: 324: 2999:

I will support whatever the other authors for this article prefer with no reservation.

1279:

used in the text, which is what I have done. The validity of those are not my problem.

4432: 3277:

makes comparisions between Skåneland and places like Quebec. And she says that it is

2528: 2335: 2057: 2020: 1815: 1760: 1720: 1324: 1255: 1218: 1149: 1080: 1070: 992: 971: 907: 804: 691: 631: 485: 438: 425: 219: 1438:

In this article there was a certain POV and possibly bogus information, provided by

1182:

But I am actually quite satisfied with how the article looks! I think it looks good.

616:("Collections of/for the history of Skåne"). When Googling for it today, it is used 4405: 4295: 4261: 3733: 3678: 3326:

Värmland or in Hälsingland or anywere else in the country. But I can of course not

3210: 3160: 3134: 3124: 3072: 3048: 2156: 1838:

for people unacquainted with the subject matter. (added on 09:58, 17 April 2006 by

1619: 1615: 606: 4326: 3769:. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment. 3350: 2923: 1921:

I ve been reading its also interesting one small point these two Govenor Generals

1785: 812:

I will revert most of your changes. I can see not a single reference from you. --

4235:"Skåneland", not the region itself. For all intents and purposes it's similar to 3461:(Scania). 4) Some people who have an agenda to make Skåneland a fourth informal " 4416: 4240: 4014: 3919: 3889: 3857: 3466: 2956: 2948: 2878: 2875: 1854: 1781: 530:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=terra-scaniae+OR+terrae-scaniae

420: 1753:

The direct translation is "Land of Scania" (note the singular). "Scaniae" is a

1311:

passages. I see absolutely no reason to think that NE is biased in this matter.

4289: 4228: 4213: 4166: 4051: 3647: 3392: 3373: 3359: 3340: 3313: 3304: 3291: 3274: 3238: 3197: 3187: 3171: 2905: 2141: 2044: 1462: 1017:

You would also benefit from not marking good copyedits as "minor". Regards, --

314: 209: 4212:

may be considered a stronghold, but not this historical region as a whole. --

2380:

A Revolution from Above? The Power State of 16th and 17th Century Scandinavia

1453:

This makes me wonder if it is a correct quote or if Sawyer has actually read

1354:

While arguing in favor of Skåne vs Scania on another page, I did a search on

433: 3020: 2174:

namespace, which I see is now kept only for historic interest. The proposed

1276: 542:

I'm Swedish and agree with the paragraph. I don't have any sources though.

406:

being a seperate language and demands to grant Scanian official status as a

3787:. Otherwise, it may be delisted (such a decision may be challenged through 2992:

Since it is a good article, I'd much rather we now work to upgrade it to a

2986:

wouldn't name usage in Economist articles be influenced by Knowledge (XXG)?

2919:

Ah Pia, it is always a pleasure to read your lovely, well-composed writing.

2073:

No one seems too enamo(u)red with either the current name of this article,

1315:

is simply not a reliable first-hand source of information in these matters.

3813:

The first, third, and fifth paragraphs of Scanian regionalism are uncited.

3474: 3470: 2964: 2164: 1858: 1754: 1554: 1550: 1496: 1479: 1475: 787: 740: 598: 590: 458: 3044: 612:

This term did not exist until 1868, when Weibull first used the term in

4424: 4306: 4276: 4249: 4231:. This article should generally focus on describing the history of the 4221: 4198: 4174: 4158: 4099: 4075: 4059: 4022: 4001:

nationalism. It should also be noted that in most cases these are more

3976: 3952: 3926: 3897: 3864: 3836: 3750: 3703: 3655: 3629: 3599: 3568: 3532: 3487: 3441: 3406: 3395: 3376: 3362: 3343: 3316: 3294: 3246: 3213: 3200: 3190: 3174: 3163: 3137: 3127: 3112: 3088: 3075: 3061: 3028: 3024: 3012: 2908: 2739: 2722: 2144: 2130: 2060: 2047: 2023: 2001: 1983: 1974: 1961: 1943: 1881: 1872: 1818: 1763: 1740: 1723: 1710: 1646: 1539: 1500: 1492: 1395: 1370: 954: 878: 834: 820: 748: 667: 594: 557: 510: 403: 337: 4282:

As a good article I feel this needs resolving or the article delisted

3771: 2408:

Northern Europe in the Early Modern Period: The Baltic World 1492—1772

1282:#3 "It is bad to over-reference" is a non-argument (it is an opinion). 3779:

in an effort to ensure all listed Good articles continue to meet the

3453: 3149:

As a historical (16th century) Danish name for its eastern provinces.

3097: 3040: 3032: 2968: 2952: 2755: 2110: 1896: 1892: 1382:

I have added a few details to the older portions of the history.

934: 930: 752: 232: 3777:

Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force

517:

Martin), whom I believe to be the originator of the "modern" use of

3233:

Skåneland (called Scania) is not found on the web site of the UNPO

1668:, by Bridget and Peter Sawyer, University of Minnesota Press, 1993. 3791:). If improved after it has been delisted, it may be nominated at 3234: 2947:

I rather liked the change (I’d never in 100 years have looked for

1546: 1471: 1389:

If you find the material I’ve added controversial, let’s ‘talk.’

1341:

http://g3.spraakdata.gu.se/saob/show.phtml?filenr=1/253/64657.html

688:. Is that a good indication of this term being especially neutral? 3714:

you wish to target, how do you suggest dealing with the issue of

1073:

17:57, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC) and it should be avoided in other texts.

2967:

which used to be Skåne but has now gone the other way to become

1355: 3732:

basing the discussion on any historiography terms used in the

624:

There is a dire need for this article to explain that this is

145: 2011:

I took the libery of removing the picture supposedly showing

1997:

confusing since Bohuslän is mentioned earlier in the text. --

1857:

and in the context of advocating Skåneland as an independent

2759: 41:. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be 2211: 1179:

why it should be better for an article not to include them?

850:

refers to Skåne, Blekinge and Halland, as a unity, whereas

2352:

Urban Development in the Alpine and Scandinavian Countries

1953:), and one just for Scania. I'll investigate some more. / 601:. The Swedish historian Martin Weibull based his new term 3686:

like. It is almost only used describing the provinces in

3094:

Name change to "Scania (historical region)"? - I say NO.

2775:. The list of examples of Scania include, among others,: 2455:

Moberg, Vilhelm (translation by Austin, Paul B.) (1971).

2386:

Scania & Skåne (differs from one article to another)

1211:

the term without even mentioning the regionalistic yoke.

503:

I do not produce a source since it's you who need backup.

751:

to Sweden. Bahusia was however a historical province of

649:

The paragraph hasn't been in the article since April 20?

4376: 4368: 4337: 3985:

Scanian regionalism - incorrect/misleading text/wording

3823:

The second paragraph of Modern usage needs to be cited.

3728:, I'll still support you though. (However, I'd suggest 3513: 3510: 3507: 3504: 3501: 3498: 3495: 2344:

not found in any form except hyphenated corporate name

686: 115: 96: 77: 1633:

Of course this is true of almost any nation's history.

2176:

Knowledge (XXG):Naming conventions (geographic names)

4105:

Dubious sources and limits of historical description

1553:

which is essentially the modern Swedish province of

1478:

which is essentially the modern Swedish province of

715:

The word is actually in NE: Copy from introduction:

336:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 231:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 51:

of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

2443:

The Struggle for Supremacy in the Baltic: 1600-1725

2310:

History of the Norwegian People, Volumes I & II

1732:Thank you. And welcome back to Knowledge (XXG)! // 410:along side other minority languages of Sweden like 4243:or stuff like voting patterns within the province. 3818:References in popular culture is entirely uncited. 1285:Best regards, and not intending any incivility, -- 681:wants to support the current state of the article. 621:government) with very tenuous historical support. 3330:it, as little as you can prove the opposite. But 2940:post-mediaeval periods to be considered educated. 1784:a better name is needed then the "invented" term 1442:in the name of Sawyer. Let's have a look at it: 794:, I've moved this to the most appropriate term. 655:As you know, we can't draw our own conclusions ( 3237:anymore. Has the membership been suspended?? -- 2871:, from Stockholm, Sweden. "Scania" is used by: 2280:Fullerton, Brian and Williams, Alan F. (1972). 2256:. University of Minnesota Press. 0-8166-1393-1. 2178:has replaced it. That proposed policy suggests: 4141:(1991, published by Stiftelsen Skånsk framtid) 2644:Toyne, S.M. (1996 (reprint of 1948 edition)). 2546:Text "University of Minnesota Press" ignored ( 3417:As my nick tells, I am here to work with the 3196:SSF represents themselves and nobody else! -- 1098:I appreciate your initiative in all articles. 8: 4239:which does not cover the general history of 3542:books about the provinces where the term is 2480:: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list ( 2457:A History of the Swedish People, Volume II ( 2294:: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list ( 2172:Knowledge (XXG):Naming conventions (Swedish) 2170:There once were lovely, vigorous debates in 2069:Name change to "Scania (historical region)"? 1269:Ok. I will address the arguments I can find. 1891:it out the English description of it here: 3993:I feel it's misleading to call it Swedish 3775:This article has been reviewed as part of 3261:What to say about the following sentence: 3118:Skåneland as name justified to one section 1135:no need to cite each individual paragraph. 282: 177: 56: 15: 2382:. Odense University Press. 87-7838-407-9. 1692:, by P.H. Sawyer, Routledge, 1982, page 9 1465:, at a time when Sweden already existed. 4127:Historien om Sverige – storhet och fall. 3108:the term "Scanian lands" could be used. 2431:. Princeton University Press. ISBN none. 2038:website states that all churches except 1434:The discussion of Sawyer's point of view 4207:Not a "stronghold for Sweden Democrats" 1650: 284: 179: 149: 2669: 2658: 2536: 2473: 2445:. Funk & Wagnalls, New York. none. 2368:. Cornell University Press. ISBN none. 2354:. The Free Press, New York. ISBN none. 2287: 2282:Scandanavia: An Introductory Geography 3351:and introduce more autonomous regions 2578:. Southern Illinois Press. ISBN none. 2366:The Scandinavian Countries; 1720—1865 2087:? Other regions using this form are 747:also ceded the Norwegian province of 720:--Väsk ✎ 21 juli 2004 kl.12.14 (CEST) 7: 3143:The term "Skåneland" has two uses. 2449:Skåne (& uses term Scanian War) 2254:Scandinavia in the Revolutionary Era 525:a relevant quote is not made easily. 330:This article is within the scope of 225:This article is within the scope of 4139:333 års-boken om Skånelandsregionen 3803:, or reducing the number of images. 2312:. The MacMillan Company. ISBN none. 2200:English name. Here are the results: 1966:Ok I have rewritten the section. / 790:misconceptions of how to apply the 776:It has nothing to do with Skåneland 711:quoting "Väsk" -- half translated: 397:I removed the following statement: 350:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Denmark 168:It is of interest to the following 2625:Sweden and the Baltic, 1523 - 1721 2515:Sawyer, Bridget and Peter (1993). 2104:Ostrobothnia (historical province) 2089:West Friesland (historical region) 1897:http://www.hum.ku.dk/ami/am28.html 1893:http://www.ts.skane.se/o.o.i.s/809 1680:, by P.H. Sawyer, Routledge, 1982. 1175:Thanks for explaining your points. 935:http://runeberg.org/nfcf/0069.html 931:http://runeberg.org/nfce/0699.html 585:) is a medieval term used for the 245:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Sweden 14: 3668:"Historiographic term" - why not? 2498:. University of Minnesota Press. 2463:. University of Minnesota Press. 2326:. Griffiths, Palgrave MacMillan. 1790:User_talk:Fred_chessplayer#Scania 577:After checking up on the term in 3770: 3579:Swedish Governors-General#Scania 3269:"Political underrepresentation?" 2284:. Praeger Publishers. ISBN none. 2270:. University of Minnesota Press. 2224:Adamson, Hans Christian (1958). 317: 307: 286: 212: 202: 181: 150: 19: 4464:Mid-importance Denmark articles 4377:Watch article reassessment page 3235:http://www.unpo.org/members.php 2752:The Journal of Economic History 2324:Scandinavia; at War with Trolls 370:This article has been rated as 265:This article has been rated as 4449:Mid-importance Sweden articles 2930:. I was invited to comment by 2378:Jesperson, Leon (Ed.) (2000). 1925:Carl Gustaf Skytte (1716-1719) 1741:13:44, 30 September 2005 (UTC) 1724:13:27, 30 September 2005 (UTC) 1711:13:18, 30 September 2005 (UTC) 892:out that the term "terra Scani 614:Samlingar till Skånes historia 1: 4469:All WikiProject Denmark pages 4277:00:12, 14 November 2017 (UTC) 4199:12:18, 4 September 2014 (UTC) 4175:10:53, 4 September 2014 (UTC) 4159:21:43, 2 September 2014 (UTC) 4115:Sanningen om Snapphanelögnen. 4076:08:38, 21 December 2008 (UTC) 4037:, the anti-immigration party 3977:01:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC) 3953:20:39, 4 September 2008 (UTC) 3927:20:11, 4 September 2008 (UTC) 3898:13:26, 1 September 2008 (UTC) 3656:09:46, 25 February 2008 (UTC) 3630:07:37, 25 February 2008 (UTC) 3600:00:29, 25 February 2008 (UTC) 3569:10:34, 24 February 2008 (UTC) 3533:11:53, 23 February 2008 (UTC) 3488:08:39, 23 February 2008 (UTC) 3421:of Sweden. This is certainly 3377:00:02, 22 December 2006 (UTC) 3363:05:04, 21 December 2006 (UTC) 3344:00:36, 21 December 2006 (UTC) 3317:01:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC) 3295:21:27, 19 December 2006 (UTC) 3214:09:47, 15 December 2006 (UTC) 3201:23:22, 14 December 2006 (UTC) 3164:13:36, 28 November 2006 (UTC) 2963:). The only outlier left is 2155:If you'll forgive my abusing 2061:15:08, 7 September 2006 (UTC) 1520:08:40, 7 September 2005 (UTC) 1433: 1371:21:40, 28 November 2006 (UTC) 344:and see a list of open tasks. 239:and see a list of open tasks. 4454:All WikiProject Sweden pages 4250:17:56, 26 October 2015 (UTC) 4222:07:58, 25 October 2015 (UTC) 4060:21:28, 6 December 2008 (UTC) 4023:00:53, 6 December 2008 (UTC) 3690:. Therefore I consider it a 3247:14:07, 9 December 2011 (UTC) 3191:22:23, 7 December 2006 (UTC) 3175:20:06, 6 December 2006 (UTC) 3138:15:41, 7 November 2006 (UTC) 3128:21:53, 22 October 2006 (UTC) 3113:23:08, 25 October 2006 (UTC) 3089:15:07, 23 October 2006 (UTC) 3076:16:24, 22 October 2006 (UTC) 3071:, as far as I am concerned. 3062:22:26, 21 October 2006 (UTC) 3013:21:59, 21 October 2006 (UTC) 2909:15:09, 21 October 2006 (UTC) 2740:05:12, 21 October 2006 (UTC) 2723:05:05, 21 October 2006 (UTC) 2704:widely accepted English name 2646:The Scandinavians in History 2592:. Harvard University Press. 2576:Sweden; the Nation's History 2494:Nordstrom, Byron J. (2000). 2185:widely accepted English name 2145:01:55, 21 October 2006 (UTC) 2131:00:34, 21 October 2006 (UTC) 2117:names like "Scanian lands." 1928:Carl Gustaf Hård (1717-1719) 1895:. I also wanted to point to 1819:19:33, 14 October 2005 (UTC) 1764:03:23, 13 October 2005 (UTC) 1413:07:58, August 27, 2005 (UTC) 933:This is about "snapphanar" 736:Removing this from article: 558:02:02, 11 October 2009 (UTC) 353:Template:WikiProject Denmark 3865:15:53, 29 August 2008 (UTC) 3837:14:27, 29 August 2008 (UTC) 3419:administrative subdivisions 3407:06:43, 8 January 2007 (UTC) 3396:05:26, 8 January 2007 (UTC) 2588:Scott, Franklin D. (1975). 2574:Scott, Franklin D. (1988). 2097:Castile (historical region) 2093:Maramureş historical region 2048:23:07, 30 August 2006 (UTC) 2024:13:49, 30 August 2006 (UTC) 2002:22:47, 21 August 2006 (UTC) 1396:05:24, 27 August 2005 (UTC) 248:Template:WikiProject Sweden 4485: 3751:00:49, 20 March 2008 (UTC) 3704:21:43, 19 March 2008 (UTC) 3069:Scania (historical region) 2627:. Hodder & Stoughton. 2609:Sømme. Axel (Ed.) (1961). 2396:. Oxford University Press. 2252:Barton, H. Arnold (1986). 2238:Andersson, Ingvar (1956). 2138:Scania (historical region) 2084:Scania (historical region) 2040:St. Peters Cloister Church 1882:04:21, 28 April 2006 (UTC) 1873:03:28, 27 April 2006 (UTC) 1647:04:16, 28 April 2006 (UTC) 1540:03:08, 28 April 2006 (UTC) 807:13:21, May 19, 2005 (UTC) 797:Please see the NE article 645:15:23, May 18, 2005 (UTC) 634:14:19, May 17, 2005 (UTC) 428:17:17, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC) 376:project's importance scale 271:project's importance scale 45:. Editors may also seek a 4401:The page has been tagged 4307:01:37, 4 April 2018 (UTC) 3620:for some 300 years now.-- 3442:22:31, 19 June 2007 (UTC) 3047:), and even Anglo-Saxon ( 2708:Skåne (historical region) 1487:I wonder on what grounds 1221:14:29, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC) 910:20:04, May 19, 2005 (UTC) 694:22:00, May 18, 2005 (UTC) 539:13:12, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC) 488:11:56, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC) 441:08:53, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC) 369: 302: 264: 197: 176: 136: 123:Good article reassessment 104:Good article reassessment 59: 55: 4459:C-Class Denmark articles 4425:09:31, 24 May 2019 (UTC) 4033:, the county council of 3383:Concerning deletions by 2623:Stiles, Andrina (1992). 2394:A History of the Vikings 2322:Griffiths, Tony (2004). 2268:A History of Scandanavia 2228:. Chilton Company. none. 2034:at the ex-monastry. The 1984:04:22, 21 May 2006 (UTC) 1975:17:36, 20 May 2006 (UTC) 1962:16:22, 20 May 2006 (UTC) 1944:13:11, 19 May 2006 (UTC) 1549:(ancient Swedes) in the 1474:(ancient Swedes) in the 1327:03:56, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC) 1258:21:18, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC) 1246:How is the intro biased? 1152:17:57, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC) 1083:13:49, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC) 1025:10:59, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) 995:12:51, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC) 974:21:26, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC) 955:11:21, 20 May 2005 (UTC) 879:18:14, 19 May 2005 (UTC) 862:21:42, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC) 835:14:53, 19 May 2005 (UTC) 821:13:53, 19 May 2005 (UTC) 668:20:51, 18 May 2005 (UTC) 472:10:39, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC) 4444:C-Class Sweden articles 4100:23:25, 7 May 2010 (UTC) 2843:(uses Skåne (Scania)), 2613:. Heinemann. ISBN none. 2611:The Geography of Norden 2459:Min Svenska Historia II 1915:Seems familiar this 8). 1293:21:46, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC) 1236:14:40, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC) 1196:09:00, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC) 1141:Swedish Knowledge (XXG) 1115:15:03, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) 1057:13:43, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) 1041:12:54, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) 528:I hope you googled for 4439:Delisted good articles 4313:Community reassessment 3447:Modern popular usage?? 2890:NORDIC BUSINESS REPORT 2668:Check date values in: 2648:. Barnes & Noble. 2496:Scandinavia Since 1500 2427:Larson, Karen (1948). 2350:Gutkind, E.A. (1965). 2308:Gjerset, Knut (1915). 2193: 2017:Protestant Reformation 846:My impression is that 709:sv:Disussion:Skåneland 457:I guess you mean that 158:This article is rated 3781:Good article criteria 3683:historiographic terms 3435:de skånska landskapen 3037:it:Scania (provincia) 2560:Sawyer, P.H. (1982). 2527:Parameter error in {{ 2406:Kirby, David (1990). 2334:Parameter error in {{ 2181: 2136:I support the format 1491:/Sawyer has excluded 1377:History in the Making 705:A reasonable request. 162:on Knowledge (XXG)'s 139:Delisted good article 39:good article criteria 33:History good articles 4237:Republic of Jamtland 4133:Min svenska historia 3878:Image:Scaniaemap.jpg 3692:historiographic term 3583:Gustaf Otto Stenbock 3413:Too large an article 3257:"Minority viewpoint" 2758:. See the talk page 2517:Medieval Scandinavia 2392:Jones, Gwen (1984). 2364:Hovde, B.J. (1948). 2266:Derry, T.K. (1979). 1666:Medieval Scandinavia 579:Nationalencyklopedin 85:Good article nominee 4256:Neutrality dispute? 4121:Skånelands historia 4039:Sverigedemokraterna 4005:than "nationalist". 3761:This discussion is 3688:historical contexts 3551:. And, by the way, 3549:historical contexts 3181:The UNPO-membership 2764:User:Pia_L/sandbox2 2441:Lisk, Jill (1967). 2429:A History of Norway 2410:. Longman, London. 2240:A History of Sweden 2226:Admiral Thunderbolt 2120:Please discuss. - 1360:Talk:Skåneland/SAOB 643:Michael S. Andersen 333:WikiProject Denmark 4382:Most recent review 3767:Talk:Skåneland/GA1 3739:historical methods 2302:Skäne (yes Skäne) 1992:Treaty of Roskilde 1902:Best wishes, Pia 228:WikiProject Sweden 164:content assessment 60:Article milestones 4125:Lindquist (1995) 3587:Kingdom of Sweden 3355:territorial space 2928:strange attractor 2691: 2690: 2679:CS1 maint: year ( 2562:Kings and Vikings 2160: 2115:original research 1690:Kings and Vikings 1678:Kings and Vikings 1143:) as a reference. 739:By the treaty of 657:Secondary sources 548:comment added by 408:minority language 390: 389: 386: 385: 382: 381: 281: 280: 277: 276: 144: 143: 132: 131: 97:September 5, 2008 4476: 4410: 4404: 4396: 4395: 4379: 4373: 4364: 4345: 4293: 4150:reliable sources 4113:Svensson (2005) 4043:Sweden Democrats 3969:Malleus Fatuorum 3945:Malleus Fatuorum 3829:Malleus Fatuorum 3774: 3675:Byzantine Empire 3060: 3058: 2994:featured article 2935: 2684: 2677: 2671: 2666: 2664: 2656: 2635: 2614: 2600: 2579: 2565: 2551: 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