1349:" was in the edit summary), which tend to be about non-pop culture subjects (e.g. a historical figure, or a piece of music) that have appeared/been mentioned in several TV shows/films/books, etc., but are essentially irrelevant to that subject (which is one of the main reasons these "in popular culture" sections aren't a good idea). In this case, having a list of media that use an archetype is directly relevant to the concept of a pop culture archetype, so isn't
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1067:. Since it's possibly the first picture of a "space marine", and serves as a great example of what early space marines were imagined to be (the fact it's so different from the 40K marines also makes it a useful example), I propose we include it. Providing it's uploaded with a fair use rationale it shouldn't be a problem. --
291:
1235:. However, this edit was reverted because an editor thought that this section was "very different" from other pop-culture sections. Instead of engaging in an edit war, I would like to make a request for comments to decide if the section should be removed, stay, or if some other solution can be decided on. Thanks.
522:
I've removed Doom, Stargate, and Star Trek. I'm not entirely sure about whether the Doom series includes actual space marines (as opposed to soldiers stationed on other planets) or not, but I'm confident that the Star Gate teams aren't marines (they are neither stationed on a space ship, nor do they
972:
I've added the reference to WH40K in the games list, since it is a game. It should be included in the lists, so that it can be seen that they were improperly issued a trademark. They could lose the trademark if anyone ever got a real attack by GW, and having an accurate wikipedia page should aid in
1541:
article is mostly list. And again, not saying the list isn't notable, it clearly is, and all items on the list are well sourced so are appropriate for inclusion on the list-- it shouldn't be cut down. But that's why splitting is a good idea. Do you have thoughts on the proportion of the article?
481:
I did a little revisioning. I removed that sentence that flat-out stated that "gamers regard Space
Marines as lame or borring". I'm sure not EVERY Warhammer 40,000 believes that, so I just noted that they are controversial and that some players do indeed feel that way. I also felt that the list of
1540:
I mean, your opinion is your opinion, but you don't think this article is getting a little overwhelmed/lopsided with this list? It takes up approximately half the entire vertical real estate! That's why I'd think splitting is appropriate... usually, we like articles to be mostly prose, but this
1353:
barely related to the subject. I agree that it would be better to have a prose article that covers the notable instances (early uses, media that influenced future uses of this archetype, famous examples, etc.), but I think that until someone actually writes this (and I don't think this would be
759:
I think those troops really have the recognition of space marines, much more in the book where they are an elite military force that drops on hot zones and does business there. The movie version troops are more vague in the space marine definition but can fill it too. The M.I. should be in that
724:
No, Powered Armor is not necessary for Space
Marines, although the more popluar Adeptus Astares of Warhammer 40,000 do wear power armor. But this article does probably need clarificiation on what a Space Marine is. I can guess that the Space Marines listed at least operate in space or
432:
I'm not sure why my clarifications were undone. I feel it is an important clearification because there is a difference between soldiers who simply fight in space, and soldiers who specificaly atack surface instalations from orbit. Does anyone see a good reason not to make this clear?
1052:
Now why does everyone refer to COG Gears as Space
Marines? They're neither Marines (there are specialised COG Marines, who should be a lot like Gears, though) nor Space - they do have KillSats, but all craft they have are "Kamovs" (King Ravens) and "wet navy".
539:
On the subject of Doom. Well it's pretty clear to me that they're called and referred to as
Marines several times in the games, novels, and now movie. And they're stationed in space so yeah I'd say they're a pretty good example of Space Marines.
482:
weapons that Space
Marines carry was too specific and beyond the scope of the article, so I just shorted it and indicated that instead of plasma cannons, guns, and pistols, the Space Marines carry generic plasma weapons, melta weapons, and so on.
486:
On second thought, I removed the entire thing about 40k gamers' opinions of Space
Marines. This is an article for space marines in general, not Space Marines (of the 40k universe) specificaly, so that is beyond the scope of the article I
739:
True. Astartes are nearly the sterotypical "Space Marine", in the imaginative sense of the word. However, Space
Marines could be normal marines of any country simply operating in space. Talk about a late butt-in. I must feel ashamed.
815:
Games
Workshop claims to own the trademark over the name "Space Marine". Is there any risk they might attempt to get rid of this article? Since it shows that the term is a genericized trademark - or perhaps was such to begin with.
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It seems odd to me to stick such a detailed discussion in the lead that isn't even touched on in the body. I think we need a new section to host the text about the trademark events currently in the lead. -
425:
If you merge those you must consider that they are the equilivant of the
Warhammer 40k chapters. There are quite a lot of those and then you might add short descriptions too... The page would get cluttered.
1222:
This page has a fairly large section that takes up about half of the page detailing a list of times that space marines have appeared in fiction. I removed the section on the basis of it being unsourced,
1126:). At the moment the history section really just outlines the early uses and later gaming influences, but a more detailed history of its gradual development, including Honorverse, would be welcome. --
714:
Isn't powered armor required for "space marinedom" or is anything in the future with a gun a "space marine"? I see storm troopers and such as regular soldiers and should not have the marine status.--
1345:, as this article is about a pop culture archetype, and the list is just giving examples of media that use this archetype. This seems different from typical "in popular culture" sections ("per
783:) deserve a mention here - I see them as pretty damn space-marine-y and a clear antecedent of the WH40k marines. Anyone else see this? I'm happy to add a mention of them to the main page.
460:
Starship
Troopers appeared for the first time in '59. Did the concepet even exict before that? Where? For that matter, did the concept of 'hive-aliens' exist before that (though there were
1184:
The character "Sam" was identified as an "imperial marine" but was really a kind of space marine. The book was published in 1953. Main thing I remember from it was Sam's epitaph.
923:
Since there's been vandalism (including the removal of this discussion, under the claim that it was by "GW lawyers"), I've tried to include a balanced summary in the lead. --
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Colonial Marines is the name for the space marines in the Aliens movie. Space marines is the more general term for space soldiers. The articles could possibly be merged.
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Following the above discussion, there seemed to be an overall consensus towards splitting the list to its own article. As a result I've created this list article at
949:
Good call, my plan was to wait for it to stabilise before writing something more complete in the article, but starting a new section now's probably a better idea. --
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assault anything from space), and Star Trek doesn't prominently feature dedicated marines either (in fact, the Federation doesn't seem to have any soldiers at all).
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that has been making the rounds on Facebook, though I'm not sure if its a blog entry or from writing staff, so I'm not sure if it counts as a reliable source. -
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where GW is trying to enforce a copywrite, but since the term was first coined in 1936, one must wonder about the nature of their claim. <--tl evans--: -->
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to cover the main points with support from sources. I'm not sure we need a separate list, otherwise why not have a list of laser weapons in popular culture?
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I've removed links about the nations or organizations that employ space marines in that work (but retained links to articles about the marines themselves).
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Well, with lack of a good reason to the contrary, I'm going to assume that the removal of my clarification was without good reason. I'm reinserting it.
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Agreed. There's been a lot of vandalism since the trademark debacle, removing references to both Games Workshop and the controversy, so I've added a
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Doesn't seem like the same thing: the example you give hasn't been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, and wouldn't pass
584:" as non-factual source. The proper MILNET site does not have this rank on it, and I fear this may of been a practical joke. Proper MILNET site:
879:
Very interesting. This could turn out to be an important development, and would be great to include if it gets picked up by reliable sources. --
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simple to do), it's better to have the list than nothing. If the amount of space it takes up is an issue, I wonder if it would be worth
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It was actually public domain, so I've uploaded and added it to the article, and updated the 40K picture in line with feedback. --
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The term Space Marine is just a marine operating in space, it's a very common Sci-Fi term that predates Games Workshop.
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1474:. I just don't think a list of something as common as laser weapons or space marines in science fiction is necessary.
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1064:, but the sequel "The Space Marines and the Slavers" was used for the cover illustration, and includes the characters
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Isn't Space Marine a commonly known W40k thing? why dont the disambiguation (this page), begin with something like
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I added copyright info to protect and inform any budding sci-fi writers out there. Information can be found at
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Cut it to the most historically important and/or notable uses and write about them in prose, not with a table.
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232:. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
1370:(difficult to search for as there are so many Warhammer sources, but a few examples that demonstrate this:
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I think the Padishah Emperor's fanatical super-soldiers the Sardaukar (from F. Herbert's epic sci-fi novel
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extraterristal colonies and are supported by a space navy. I suggest one refers to the article on real
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i think the "Appearances in fiction" section is long enough that it can be split off into its own list
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Even in the movie, Marines are reffered as "special forces". The only group of Marines that qualify as
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into a separate list article (which was suggested in the section above), as I think it would pass
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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The illustration from "Captain Brink and the Space Marines" doesn't depict the actual marines
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TV and books. There are the United Nations Marines and Martian Congressional Marines.
1565:. Please edit it as necessary, and discuss there if you disagree with this decision. --
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defenses against trademark trolling. Plus it's our duty to keep wikipedia accurate. --
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I would point out we have an entry for Colonial Marines. Is this the same thing? ]
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Space marines were popularized by Robert A. Heinlein's novel Starship Troopers.
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Honorverse had the Royal Manticoran Marine Corps (in space): do they count?
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I tried to consolidate some of the redundancies and clean up the language.
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That's fine, although if you look for sources, you can probably find some
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Note that what is in question here is a trademark and not a copyright.
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I'm probably going to have a look at the rest of the article tomorrow.
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The link says copyright, but the article actually says trademark. -
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too, but maybe the best plan is to wait and see how it pans out. --
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An interesting development along these lines can be found here:
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and use that diffintion to determine what a Space Marine is. --
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a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed
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is a soldier who fights in space, and usually refers to the
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http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/insignias/officers.html
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http://honorverse.wikia.com/Royal_Manticoran_Marine_Corps
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why not have a list of laser weapons in popular culture?
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This article has been checked against the following
140:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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1180:Heinlein's "Starman Jones" should be referenced?
516:I've ordered it by the works' publication dates.
866:http://haikujaguar.livejournal.com/1208235.html
614:United States Marine Corps Force Reconnaissance
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477:http://uk.games-workshop.com/Legal/legal.htm
874:comment added 03:18, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
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1507:, would be appropriate for this article.
630:Then what about the orginal Doom game? --
226:This article is within the scope of the
1591:Low-importance science fiction articles
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1385:). (P.S. thanks for the notification @
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1218:RfC for Appearances in fiction section
246:Knowledge:WikiProject Military history
236:. To use this banner, please see the
1563:List of media featuring space marines
688:Wwhat is the fantasy space marines?
249:Template:WikiProject Military history
154:Knowledge:WikiProject Science Fiction
7:
1611:Maritime warfare task force articles
1596:WikiProject Science Fiction articles
1276:Splitting's not a bad idea, either.
604:Doom Marines are in fact Force Recon
157:Template:WikiProject Science Fiction
134:This article is within the scope of
77:It is of interest to the following
1124:Honorverse#Honor Harrington series
25:
1606:C-Class maritime warfare articles
1601:C-Class military history articles
989:temporary semi-protection request
755:Starship Troopers Mobile Infantry
512:I've done some work on the list:
41:on 5 October 2007. The result of
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468:long before that, of course)? --
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1114:It's currently listed in the
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998:11:43, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
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704:07:40, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
148:and see a list of open tasks.
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858:19:39, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
775:Sardaukar ('Dune' universe')
229:Military history WikiProject
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386:Maritime warfare task force
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1442:
1438:
1435:
1433:
1429:
1425:
1421:
1420:
1410:
1407:. Otherwise,
1406:
1402:
1399:
1397:
1393:
1388:
1387:Snowmanonahoe
1384:
1382:
1380:
1378:
1376:
1374:
1372:
1369:
1367:
1361:
1357:
1352:
1348:
1347:WP:POPCULTURE
1344:
1340:
1339:Keep or split
1337:
1336:
1332:
1328:
1325:
1322:
1319:
1316:
1312:
1311:Snowmanonahoe
1308:
1303:
1299:
1295:
1292:
1289:
1286:
1283:
1279:
1278:Snowmanonahoe
1275:
1274:
1273:
1269:
1266:
1263:
1260:
1257:
1253:
1252:Snowmanonahoe
1249:
1248:
1247:
1246:
1242:
1238:
1234:
1230:
1226:
1217:
1215:
1214:
1210:
1206:
1198:
1196:
1195:
1191:
1187:
1177:
1176:
1172:
1168:
1160:
1158:
1157:
1153:
1149:
1141:
1140:Space Crusade
1138:
1134:
1130:
1125:
1121:
1117:
1113:
1112:
1111:
1110:
1106:
1102:
1101:174.24.81.170
1099:
1091:
1087:
1083:
1078:
1077:
1076:
1075:
1071:
1066:
1063:
1056:
1054:
1051:
1047:
1043:
1035:
1031:
1027:
1023:
1019:
1018:
1017:
1016:
1012:
1008:
999:
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990:
986:
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984:
980:
976:
971:
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957:
953:
948:
947:
946:
942:
938:
933:
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931:
927:
922:
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920:
916:
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876:
873:
867:
862:
859:
855:
851:
847:
843:
835:
833:
829:
825:
824:188.33.38.176
821:
810:
808:
805:
801:
797:
793:
789:
782:
772:
771:
767:
763:
762:81.35.174.193
754:
752:
751:
747:
743:
735:
732:
728:
723:
722:
721:
720:
717:
709:
707:
705:
701:
697:
696:220.253.31.96
693:
686:
682:
678:
674:
673:67.87.186.172
670:
664:
660:
659:
655:
651:
646:
640:
636:
633:
629:
628:
627:
626:
623:
619:
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611:
603:
601:
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596:
592:
588:
587:
574:
569:
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562:
558:
554:
551:
547:
541:
536:
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532:
528:
521:
518:
515:
514:
513:
510:
504:
502:
499:
497:
492:
485:
484:
483:
479:
478:
473:
471:
467:
463:
459:
452:
450:
444:
440:
439:
438:
436:
424:
423:
422:
421:
417:
413:
412:
411:
405:
387:
379:
375:
374:
371:
369:
364:
363:
358:
354:
347:
345:
340:criterion met
332:
329:criterion met
321:
318:criterion met
310:
307:criterion met
299:
288:
287:
286:
285:
282:
279:
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239:
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109:
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84:
80:
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66:
62:
57:
56:
48:
44:
40:
36:
33:
29:
28:
19:
1560:
1522:
1521:
1504:
1500:
1496:
1492:
1436:
1413:
1408:
1400:
1365:
1355:
1338:
1323:
1317:
1290:
1284:
1264:
1258:
1221:
1202:
1183:
1167:66.24.101.10
1164:
1148:31.50.70.172
1145:
1119:
1095:
1060:
1039:
1004:
975:Celtic hackr
870:— Preceding
863:
840:— Preceding
836:
814:
792:OliverHarris
778:
758:
738:
713:
687:
661:
654:Space Marine
650:Space Marine
647:
644:
607:
589:
577:. Retrieved
542:
537:
529:
526:
511:
508:
500:
493:
490:
480:
474:
457:
456:
448:
430:
409:
275:
227:
175:
135:
79:WikiProjects
47:no consensus
46:
1225:WP:FANCRUFT
1161:The Expanse
1092:Honorverse?
892:Boing Boing
818:—Preceding
786:—Preceding
710:Power Armor
690:—Preceding
667:—Preceding
618:Force Recon
316:Structure:
1580:Categories
1305:Notifying
622:James Bond
579:2008-11-14
568:Commandant
1527:Pedrovelo
1476:CurryCity
1441:CurryCity
1356:splitting
1351:WP:TRIVIA
1233:WP:TRIVIA
742:Leonnatus
663:NeoExelor
443:CB Droege
435:CB Droege
1458:WP:NLIST
1437:Re-write
1428:contribs
1360:WP:NLIST
1321:contribs
1288:contribs
1262:contribs
1231:list of
1205:Nucg5040
1129:xensyria
1082:xensyria
1070:xensyria
1022:Sangrolu
994:xensyria
952:xensyria
937:Sangrolu
926:xensyria
915:xensyria
896:Sangrolu
882:xensyria
854:contribs
842:unsigned
820:unsigned
800:contribs
788:unsigned
731:Eldarone
692:unsigned
681:contribs
669:unsigned
641:Question
632:Eldarone
612:are the
591:Wolf3685
575:. MILNET
566:rank of
555:for the
553:insignia
548:page on
406:Untitled
277:criteria
208:Maritime
39:deletion
1036:Gears!?
872:undated
846:Dreg102
727:Marines
564:marines
505:Cleanup
496:miketer
453:Origins
416:Fredrik
178:on the
69:C-class
1543:Fieari
1509:Fieari
1343:WP:BRD
1186:Shanen
1118:under
561:4-star
546:MILNET
487:think.
75:scale.
1568:Yodin
1523:Keep:
1493:Split
1463:Yodin
1426:• ✏️
1401:Split
1392:Yodin
1327:typos
1307:Yodin
1294:typos
1268:typos
1199:Split
1007:Hcobb
1547:talk
1531:talk
1513:talk
1499:the
1497:only
1480:talk
1460:. --
1445:talk
1424:talk
1422:(đź’¬
1415:Coco
1409:keep
1389:) --
1315:talk
1282:talk
1256:talk
1241:talk
1209:talk
1190:talk
1171:talk
1152:talk
1105:talk
1046:talk
1026:talk
1011:talk
991:. --
979:talk
941:talk
900:talk
850:talk
828:talk
796:talk
781:Dune
766:talk
760:list
746:talk
700:talk
677:talk
595:talk
550:rank
509:Hi,
470:Dyss
466:bees
464:and
462:ants
45:was
1418:bb8
656:in
620:)--
610:SOF
531:FJG
170:Low
1582::
1549:)
1533:)
1515:)
1482:)
1447:)
1430:)
1411:.
1362::
1329:)
1296:)
1270:)
1243:)
1211:)
1192:)
1173:)
1154:)
1107:)
1048:)
1040:--
1028:)
1013:)
981:)
943:)
902:)
856:)
852:•
830:)
802:)
798:•
768:)
748:)
702:)
683:)
679:•
597:)
366:/
206::
1545:(
1529:(
1511:(
1478:(
1443:(
1324:·
1318:·
1313:(
1291:·
1285:·
1280:(
1265:·
1259:·
1254:(
1239:(
1207:(
1188:(
1169:(
1150:(
1103:(
1044:(
1024:(
1009:(
977:(
939:(
898:(
848:(
826:(
794:(
764:(
744:(
698:(
675:(
648:"
616:(
593:(
582:.
240:.
182:.
81::
49:.
20:)
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