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785:? While there were partial transitions to democracy after the first two revolutions, they're not as widely known as this one, and by the time that Wikipedians decide (by editing new articles) that the previous cases are part of human knowledge, the current transition will probably be considered to be "completed" (in the minimalistic sense of holding elections) and we'll be able to restore a year range if needed. The
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533:. But given the 3-months-over-schedule conclusion of a comprehensive peace agreement and the 9-months-over-schedule creation of a parliament of at least 40% women, noone can really say if the transition will really end in 2022 or 2023 or ... later. If nobody objects, it seems fine by me to leave the article with the name
1603:
and development of institutions as less sociologically notable than protests and coups; normally it's the mainstream media that are accused of focussing on photogenic events and violence rather than "boring" but significant processes of discussion, negotiation and formalisation of institutions.Suggested names: (a)
1610:, where '2019 Transitional Period' is in italics, to clarify that this is mainly a named plan made in the draft constitutional charter and associated events, i.e. the agreements just prior to it, the negotiating processes, the proposed institutions, and those few institutions that were actually created. (b)
1891:(as opposed to unknown sources), the democratic transition is ongoing. Whether or not the current "boys with toys, bang! bang!" can disrupt the long-term sociological processes is purely speculative. So far, at least, we have no sources saying that any of the 40 groups have suddenly been destroyed. So
828:
would hurt, though. If the civilians continue their civil disobedience and force the military completely out of power, or force the military to allow a civilian to become head of the
Sovereignty Council now, as per the rules of the transition, they might advance or delay the 2024 revised end/election
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Edit: Apparently according to an earlier reply one plan mentioned elections for 2026, but this is not mentioned anywhere in the article. Again, not only should it be mentioned if relevant (it very probably is), but, especially given the recent events, there is no way to predict these elections will
1311:
inevitably take place; and that this forms part of a grand Arab democratic awakening in 2019; both of which have turned out to be wildly off-the-mark. (which does not come as a surprise to historians and political scientists - who would have hesitated to assume that the setting up of a transitional
1306:
bias gathers a large number of
English-language news reports (with exactly zero academic sources) and synthesizes it into a historical topic. The problem with synthesizing news reports into an article is that you inevitably add assumptions about its contextual place in history - e.g. that some sort
1602:
who commented on these three name changes). I agree that a better name is needed, especially to avoid the concerns from not-yet-provided peer-reviewed articles by 'historians and political scientists'. I also find it unconvincing that political-scientists-with-unknown-sources consider negotiations
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The time scale for significant changes in the situation since
December 2019 has typically been a few months - not a few days. So we don't yet know if the transition has ended: masses of Sudanese citizens seem willing to continue civil disobedience indefinitely. However, "-2024" is currently quite
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move as suggested on the talk page there. Dec 2022 + two years + 'after that' seems the best that the sources currently say, but "next" would be better supported by the sources. None of the sources point to promises of a no-election scenario. In any case, that discussion makes sense at
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and remains uncontested, so the claim of WP:SYNTH is unsupported; – effectively that was a title-change-with-loss-of-editing-history rather than a true deletion of the topic (keep in mind that in 2007, the idea of what counted as a topic was less developed than now); 2019 protests: the
1390:, when editors synthesized the news reports and enthusiastically documented the birth of a new democratic movement. In reality it was more of a temporary post-election coalition of reformists/dissidents coupled with catchy symbolism (green) which soon became antiquated, e.g.
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1586:. I agree that the repeated renames with resetting the "end point" of the process to another future year became crystal-balling – I wasn't involved in these renames to –2022, –2024, –2026, although I did comment on the –2022 change (scroll up to see,
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I agree. It seem to me that either we have it with the years it's officially scheduled for, only adjusting if and when it goes off plan, either we simply don't put years in the title. Having 2021 for seemingly no reason simply called for a change.
1503:– after 13 days, there were 8 keep arguments versus 2 delete arguments, these were considered insufficiently referring to policy and the discussion was relisted; whether these two cases count as WP:SYNTH is unclear. But let's return to discussing
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I don't think you need to wait to edit the lead, as long as it's within the spirit of the discussion here. Maybe remove 'ongoing' and put something more like 'a series of political agreements among
Sudanese political and military forces for a
1242:- I don't think that new title is perfect either, but it's far better than the current one. Also, there's no articles about previous transitions as pointed out above. And if there were, these can easily use the exact years in their title.
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the TMC and the Forces of
Freedom and Change (FFC) alliance agreed on 5 July 2019 to a 39-month transition process to return to democracy, including the creation of executive, legislative and judicial institutions and
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would not fit. On the other hand, the 2026 date is completely unjustified, with no plan specifically mentioning this year (not to mention that the recent clashes make the implementation of these plans unsure,
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781:, with the idea that 2019 was the start.I don't think that "government reform" would make sense, because the changes so far and the planned changes are much more fundamental than just "reform".How about
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continued negotiations between FFC-CC and the military on one side and FFC-DB negotiations on implementation of the Juba peace agreement with facilitation by the
Trilateral Mechanism mean that per the
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Very interesting argument, and you certainly can open an AfD request if you so wish. My question is: how in God's name did an article with such dysfunction as you describe make it into
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Agreed. Move it. Heck, they might not even be still transitioning to democracy by the end of the month...if they had a roadmap to democracy, someone handed it to the new lieutenant.
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There is no set date for the end of the transition to democracy and the 2026 end year seems to have just been made up by a random editor. I propose changing the title to
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If the plans for democratic transition haven't been formally abandoned, I'd prefer for the title to reflect that, but your title is still better than the current one.
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865:: The suggested title implies that Sudan would have transitioned to democracy in 2021, not had its transition interrupted by a military coup. I would support simply
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1290:) were almost entirely written by User:Boud who (notwithstanding a large volume of good contributions) has a precedent of writing broad-themed articles violating
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There's a rename proposal in the section immediately above. You're both welcome to present arguments for or against any proposed names or propose a better name.
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a move to a new article name without a year delimiter, because that would still suggest a transition to democracy is ongoing; in fact, this article (along with
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I got linked to this article from an article on the latest coup. 2026 seems both arbitrary and...well, it might not be happening. Article should be renamed.
2116:..."? The 2026 date isn't sourced anywhere, and the opening sentence doesn't have to perfectly match the title, so this would be closer to a regular edit.
1387:
1499:, a second AfD was opened at a time when I was inactive in Knowledge editing, and nobody bothered to ping me (a major contributor) about it; all the same
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Coming here three months later I have the same question. The year 2024 is never explained. Could someone add a sentence about its origin to the article?--
1486:
in the closing summary) is more informative than just the summary decision; the full discussion points to the fact that the main content of the article
1645:: Where does 2026 even come from? It's not stated anywhere in the article, so it seems like a prediction that might not be accurate. It's like titling
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inevitably happen, it is a statement about the main political forces involved making promises on a 39-month transitional process that they call the
1279:) has been largely abandoned since the 2021 coup, and now mostly serves as an archive of events, proposals and Western media reports from 2019-2021.
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1578:. There were a whole lot of negotiations, agreements and plans made by the various political forces in Sudan in 2019, and they gave the name
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according to 2022 agreement, elections will take place in 2026. The problem is it is the second or the third transition period since 1956.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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date (which we don't currently have a source for, it seems to me). If we switch to an undated name, then we won't need further renames.
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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.
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they're participating in some epoch-marking current event, so they contort the assessment criteria accordingly. For instance,
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1027:. A previous move request in 2021 was dismissed as premature, but I believe enough time has passed to confidently move this.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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There isn't going to be consensus for this move, no objection to immediate renomination to another title such as
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1460:- as long as it references the date in the introduction we could link a disambiguation page for the other one.
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please, the title is ridiculous. it was made by a random editor with no source and must be changed right away
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is even worse than the current title, since the plans were practically abandoned in 2021 as mentioned above.
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still exists. (In fact, al-Burhan claims that there was no coup, just a "rectification" of the transition.)
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if the end date is too uncertain, but the post-coup situation is still developing so I suggest waiting. --
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criteria to the content, there's almost nothing of worth in this article that's not already covered in
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which would justify the non-disambiguated title too (although recentism should be avoided of course).
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Before the rename proposal goes through, would it be premature to change the intro to "The ongoing
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Once you take away the assumption that 2019 marked some kind of new epoch, and properly apply the
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Obviously this should be moved, but I'm not sold on the new title. I'd prefer something like
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to distinguish it from other previous events, although depending on notability it might be
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sources with context, but complaining that those sources are absent is not constructive; "
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I haven't been following this topic for a long time, but I noticed that
British diplomat
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in their Draft
Constitutional Charter. I see no justification for deleting the article:
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are a key player, and that disruptions could still occur (she turned out to be right).
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article rather than discussing old cases.To respond to some specific concerns: "
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True: we could say that the "military blinked first". I don't think changing to
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The sources don't seem to show any abandonment of democratic transition plans.
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government and "constitutional drafting" necessarily leads to democratization)
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You can create articles about previous transitions using the exact dates.
1327:. As it stands, this article is dysfunctional and should just be deleted.
1300:"List of killed, threatened or kidnapped Iraqi academics" (result:delete)
972:, there IS a consensus to move the current title to a different one. Per
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because we have no definite way of knowing when the transition will end.
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This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
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I'm starting to lean to your side, but I think it's only fair to ping
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If i'm not mistaken, there are no articles for the other transitions.
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or with edits of the article that have a fair chance of consensus.
1912:- As the recent events show, there is still an ongoing process, so
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seems the best justified by the sources as a descriptive title.
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further or, if you think that consensus is likely enough, do a
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that the democratic transition is very much ongoing, that the
1776:, on the grounds that from Oct 2021 the 2019 plans lost their
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While there is no consensus as to whether the title should be
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speculative. It seems like the original title that I put was
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AfD discussion (including the rather tasteless reference to
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in the title of this article, so you were probably right to
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976:, I have moved the title to the one originally proposed by
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per above, and furthermore my own title proposal would be
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status? (No italics, because this is not a formal name.)
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which were proposed in the discussion (but I don't see
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just because of predictions that it will end in 2023.
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Article title and justification as stand-alone article
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short article could be created if it is not the case.
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Including 2026 in the title is clearly a problem per
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that some sort of Sudanese transition into democracy
537:. In 29 months' time we can revisit the question...
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it is not the first transition there are also 1985.
1773:Sudanese democratic transition plans (2019–2021)
1562:, still mostly by me (and the article is not in
1492:Violence against academics in post-invasion Iraq
2018:Sudanese transition to democracy (2019–present)
1923:Sudanese transition to democracy (2019–present)
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649:RM gaining consensus for any of those titles).
741:, if a title that is common use can be found.
1394:contains no references to a "Green Movement".
1386:). The article was written in the context of
684:– The transition have been de facto ended by
577:Sudanese transition to democracy? --Regards,
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1388:2009 Iranian presidential election protests
1509:The problem with synthesizing news reports
1011:2019–2026 Sudanese transition to democracy
941:The following is a closed discussion of a
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681:2019–2021 Sudanese transition to democracy
676:2019–2024 Sudanese transition to democracy
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2055:How do you guys know it is exactly 2026?
1613:Sudanese 2019 democratic transition plans
2024:certainly applies in the current title
1566:). There is a big difference between a
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18:Talk:Sudanese transition to democracy
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1559:somewhat later version of 5 Aug 2019
1374:A common Knowledge fallacy; editors
960:The result of the move request was:
739:2019 Sudanese government reform plan
635:2019 Sudanese government reform plan
629:The result of the move request was:
346:This article is within the scope of
241:This article is within the scope of
112:This article is within the scope of
2084:There are no sources that say 2026
2016:, but if not that then I'd support
1969:Talk:2023 Sudanese general election
1286:request instead. This article (and
356:and the subjects encompassed by it.
49:It is of interest to the following
1474:On the two earlier AfD decisions:
1296:"Protests of 2019" (result:delete)
826:Sudanese democracy transition plan
783:Sudanese democracy transition plan
639:Sudanese democracy transition plan
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686:October 2021 Sudanese coup d'état
2219:Low-importance politics articles
2114:Sudanese transition to democracy
2042:The discussion above is closed.
2014:Sudanese transition to democracy
1626:(strikeout old title, see below
1550:" – no evidence for this in the
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966:Sudanese transition to democracy
884:The discussion above is closed.
867:Sudanese transition to democracy
696:) 14:25, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
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1501:it also has a useful discussion
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603:Requested move 12 November 2021
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152:This article has been rated as
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1960:2023 Sudanese general election
1842:Sudanese resistance committees
1511:" – historians are welcome to
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808:This may be a little premature
653:closed by non-admin page mover
261:Knowledge:WikiProject Politics
1:
2224:WikiProject Politics articles
1624:) 16:09, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
1294:. See these AfD discussions:
1282:Instead, I suggest opening a
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820:11:24, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
799:15:40, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
759:15:04, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
264:Template:WikiProject Politics
255:and see a list of open tasks.
174:This article is supported by
126:and see a list of open tasks.
934:Requested move 14 April 2023
879:22:09, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
858:08:29, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
731:05:41, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
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2234:Low-importance law articles
2209:WikiProject Africa articles
1990:Support some sort of change
1674:Sudanese transitional plans
1650:2019–2023 COVID-19 pandemic
1415:to see what he has to say.
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563:01:07, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
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525:is now more realistic than
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1564::Category:Arab Spring
1521:inevitably take place
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1958:Feel free to update
1704:Alternative proposal
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1321:Sudanese Revolution
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1484:daisy cutter bombs
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368:law articles
347:
282:
242:
175:
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113:
51:WikiProjects
1914:(2019–2021)
1733:I'm afraid
1584:WP:NOTPAPER
1019:– Move per
953:move review
622:move review
553:Cordially--
354:legal field
2178:Categories
1994:WP:CRYSTAL
1927:WP:PRIMARY
1919:WP:CRYSTAL
1825:Festucalex
1770:how about
1762:Festucalex
1743:Festucalex
1534:– that is
1532:procedures
1421:Festucalex
1358:Festucalex
1195:Festucalex
1176:Festucalex
1141:Festucalex
1033:Festucalex
1001:(contribs)
978:Festucalex
717:Relisting.
701:Relisting.
631:not moved.
453:discussion
435:discussion
341:Law portal
2020:instead.
1605:Sudanese
1462:FusionSub
1304:WP:RECENT
1258:Panam2014
1201:Panam2014
1166:Panam2014
1151:Panam2014
1122:Panam2014
766:Panam2014
745:(powera,
690:Panam2014
523:2019–2022
423:Not moved
1778:de facto
1556:or in a
1523:" – the
1350:WP:VITAL
1292:WP:Synth
1284:Deletion
991:Material
916:unsigned
871:Grnrchst
850:Dicklyon
666:contribs
258:Politics
249:politics
205:Politics
2011:Support
1910:Support
1869:Support
1643:Support
1596:, and
1570:and an
1568:process
1458:Neutral
1240:Support
1143:, and
1083:Agreed
531:be bold
386:on the
285:on the
156:on the
41:B-class
2149:Done!
1679:per se
1478:– the
1273:Oppose
962:moved.
863:Oppose
846:Oppose
743:User:力
451:, see
433:, see
129:Africa
120:Africa
70:Africa
47:scale.
2051:2026?
1881:forty
1692:(Tøk)
1669:Agree
1590:Aréat
1051:agree
996:Works
573:2019–
569:Title
555:Aréat
518:Aréat
441:Moved
75:Sudan
2155:talk
2141:talk
2137:Boud
2122:talk
2104:talk
2100:Boud
2090:talk
2076:talk
2061:talk
2030:talk
2002:talk
1977:talk
1973:Boud
1964:bold
1950:talk
1935:talk
1901:talk
1897:Boud
1875:The
1850:talk
1846:Boud
1814:talk
1810:Boud
1800:talk
1786:talk
1782:Boud
1764:and
1749:talk
1718:talk
1658:talk
1632:talk
1628:Boud
1622:talk
1618:Boud
1540:will
1519:will
1505:this
1480:full
1466:talk
1449:talk
1427:talk
1412:Boud
1400:talk
1376:wish
1364:talk
1333:talk
1323:and
1309:will
1262:talk
1248:talk
1219:talk
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1155:talk
1126:talk
1103:talk
1089:talk
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1058:talk
1039:talk
924:talk
907:talk
875:talk
854:talk
835:talk
831:Boud
816:talk
795:talk
791:Boud
787:plan
768:and
727:talk
709:talk
694:talk
662:talk
658:Elli
647:this
593:talk
575:2024
559:talk
543:talk
539:Boud
527:2019
477:Tip:
1546:; "
1536:not
1513:add
1488:was
1067:yes
968:or
641:or
447:to
429:to
378:Low
359:Law
310:Law
277:Low
148:Low
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53::
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