Talk:Sukhoi Su-35/Archive 1

2320:." How this statement was used as a basis for treating these two aircraft - seperated by 20 years - as if they are one and the same development is extremely puzzling. Frankly, if the superficial similarity and use of the same name between the Su-27M/Su-35 (T-10M) and the Su-35S (T-10BM) is all that it takes for two articles to be merged, then frankly we might as well just merge every single "Flanker" variant aircraft entry into one, it'd have as much basis. Or to draw on WW2, it'd make as much sense to combine the La-5FN and La-7 article into one. Heck, throw the LaGG-3 in as well. The article's superficiality serves to obscure these differences - none of the very substantial changes and modernizations are noted (though yes this is a matter for content and people need to contribute this stuff). Further, as an aside the entire "Su-35BM" designation is erroneous (though it has apparently proliferated around the net, it is thankfully falling out of use now that the proper, Su-35S designation for the serial version is known). Its a bastardisation of the T-10BM designation. 2312:

and externally. The canards are dumped. The dorsal airbrake is gone. The engine intakes are bigger (to accomodate the more powerful, newer engines). The empennage area has been reduced. Extended high-lift devices with large flaperons occupy the full trailing edge of the wing. The shape of the nose is modified (because the radar is different). New, lighter systems generally (including but not limited to the FBW system). Changes in the actual composition of the aircraft's structure (as in the materials used to build it). Corresponding increase in fuel. Different vertical tails, etc. The only thing it borrows from the Su-27M/Su-35 is the name. This is self-evident from the Sukhoi article bizarrely linked above to support the (wrong) decision to treat these two very different aircraft as one and the same. "A

619:

variants, but I believe that most of them go by Little Crane (the standard Su-27 based ones) or Triplane (Canard-equipped Flankers). Although irrelevant, other codenames include: MiG-29: "Swift" ("Fulcrum" - although a rare case, the VVS commonly uses the NATO designation for the MiG-29, taking the name as an honor that describes the MiG-29's versatility), MiG-33(MiG-29M): "Super Fulcrum", Su-25: "Comb" ... etc. I also believe the Su-32 is called the "Platypus", but I'm unsure of that. Anyways, I think we can add the VVS codenames for these aircraft (since they don't usually used the NATO designations).

1006:. However, you owe it to your readers to talk about the main aspects of a fighter (in correct context). Just because other fighter articles are missing vital information doesn't mean its ok "two wrongs don't make a right". All wikipedia articles on fighter aircraft should have sections, as standard, on the following areas. 1. Design Goal & objective 2. Airframe, 3. engines, 4. weapons, 5. RADAR, 6. Maintenance and running costs to the nation operating it. This will produce contextually correct & accurate articles for the reader.-- 3080:

this as being a realistic option, much less formally evaluated it for purchase as claimed. While there's a noisy (but tiny) minority of advocates for Russian designs in Australia, it's unthinkable that Australia would purchase a non-western combat aircraft. The logistical issues and costs associated with this alone would a nightmare, even if the ADF decided that it wanted to abandon its 100 year-long tradition of only ever purchasing equipment which is interchangeable with that of its allies.

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consideration of peer-reviewed data, secondly, published material that is vetted by author, publisher and represents "expert(s)" then second-third person published material and finally periodical/journal sources. Electronic media is usually considered secondary and in the case of a contemporary or current topic may not be as reliable as other sources. FWIW, a "cooling down" of rhetoric also should be considered. If you made an intemperate statement that you may wish to retract, placing

31: 2358:. As the link rightly acknowledges, the Su-35S actually bears far more in common with the original Su-27 airframe than the Su-27M/35. As for visually obvious differences, you can check the difference in vertical tails by just comparing a picture of an Su-27M/35 to an Su-35S - they're completely different. Ditto with the lack of a dorsal airbrake - look at any picture of the dorsal surface of an Su-27M/35 to an Su-35S. 2541:

saying there was no relation between the two - including Jane's IDR). Leaving that fact aside, what I said about the dimensions just there above was that if the Jane's entry didn't even acknowledge the difference in dimensions its further evidence of that piece simply being lazy because the name was similar. Noting the differences between the aircraft like that is the basic task of an aviation reference.

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So my question is this: Do we add the information of this new Su-35 to this article or do we split the two into seperate articles named(tentatively), say: first gen/second gen Su-35s. I believe there are enough differences between the two for seperate articles, just like the Mig-29/Mig-35, but I'd like to see what people are thinking about this. Don't forget to sign your posts. (

2421:. Two very different aircraft sharing the same name. And getting separate pages. Also do note, that Sukhoi's info page on the plane has a link at the bottom titled "1st flight of the 2nd Su-35 prototype in Komsomolsk-on-Amur". Referring to the 2008 prototype not the 90-s one. i.e. Sukhoi referring to "Su-35" means only the 2007- plane, with the 90-s one only sharing the name. 1978:. Jane's entry in the current All the World's Aircraft covers both versions with 3-4 paragraphs on the Su-27M/Su-35 and over 6 paragraphs on the new Su-35BM/Su-35S version. This wikipedia article can cover both the Su-27M/-35 and production Su-35S. There's not enough coverage to need a separate article for the Su-27M/-35 and there is better continuity with them together. - 3177:. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. The whitelisting process can take its time so once a request has been filled out, you may set the invisible parameter on the tag to true. Please be aware that the bot will replace removed tags, and will remove misplaced tags regularly. 649: 367:? If they don't call it the Super Flanker, and Sukhoi or the Russian Air force don't, then neither should this article. (And incidentally, shouldn't some context be given here - it isn't apparent from reading the article (and particularly the lead para) what the relationship is between the Su27, Su-27M and Su-35). 1827:. Perhaps the publisher has done the same with other books too. There are publishers out there which basically run their business by copy & pasting wikipedia content, collating it into a book, and selling it. This causes circular referencing problems as well as concerns about articles containing copyvio. 3771:

was powered by AL-31FU, instead of AL-37FU, engines). However, I can understand his point (although I'm skeptical like you) that Soviet opening up in the late 1980s and in the early 1990s would mean that NATO had less reason to give it a designation, regardless of any improvement in the relationship.

2675:

You seem to be adding something not stated in the article. The text does not say the 2011 deliveries were serial production aircraft. If Su-35s were delivered then, they had to be pre-production versions. Also, I can not find an English source for that delivery. The translation of the text in the

2540:

Changes to the nose, tail and landing gear don't cause the wingspan to enlarge. In any event, I never said the dimension change alone proved they were significantly different. That's what the other evidence was for (e.g. the deletion of the dorsal airbrake, the different tails, the sources explicitly

2353:

As I said, the idea that Sukhoi's site supports the merger is simply incorrect. All it acknowledges is that the name was reused. We don't need the Sukhoi website to tell us that, since its self evident. As for Jane's, I don't why it (and I don't even know what it says, in what detail - but if it says

2311:

The decision made back in 2010 is based on inaccurate information and a superficial reading of a very general article on Sukhoi's website. First of all, it is simply inaccurate to state that the Su-35S is a development of the Su-27M/Su-35. It is not. It is a substantially new airframe both internally

3962:

There are two totally differrent fighters: 'old' Su-35 wich is really Su-27M and 'real' Su-35. First Su-35 was slightly bigger heavier and has canards. It's an old tradition at Sukhoi Design Bureau to use duplicate designations: Su-7, Su-9, Su-11, Su-15, Su-17 and now Su-35. And factory designation

3079:

I've just removed the paragraph on Australia as it was nonsense. While Russian arms companies periodically offer their wares to the Australian military (and occasionally take out ads in the various defence and aviation magazines), I've never seen any suggestion that the ADF has seriously considered

2734:

says "In total, the Russian Air Force received eight Su-35s: two - in 2011 and six in 2012. In addition, the military have been transferred and the three experimental Su-35 fighter (Sic)." My question still stands, what the flying fuck is a serial production, and production aircraft? Why did Sukhoi

1354:

Currently it looks like this page is turning into an Su-35BM page (The "Modernization" section is a significant portion of the page, and the specifications now are of the Su-35BM, not the Su-35 "classic."). If these pages aren't going to be merged, this page (including the specifications) should be

667:

The current picture is the Su-35BM, but I'm 99% sure it will get deleted since it appears to be from KnAAPO's website. The only free picture of an Su-35 we have is the one on the right of the Su-35UB. I'll see if I can write a paragraph about it this week so the picture would actually make sense. -

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By the way, we could add the VVS codenames (Not the NATO: Flanker codename) for these aircraft (translated). Su-27: "Little Crane", Su-37: "Terminator" ("Super Flanker"), Su-35UB: "Sabertooth" (as mentioned in the Sukhoi-affiliated movie Mirror Wars). I could dig up a listing with the other flanker

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page content guidelines. Another problem was that each change was made as a separate edit, which made it very dificult to follow the changes, and no edit summaries were given. Please refrain from thowing out charges such as vandalism, or from just reverting. READ my edit summaries, and then discuss

207:

It might be too early to make a knowledgable decision just yet. I'd say to go ahead and add the new info as it comes out. Later, especially if a new designation is assigned, then a split can be proposed. There no real reason to rush at this point. It's better to have two related designs ont he same

195:

The 'new' Su-35 was rolled out before MAKS 2007 and is shown to be a largely different aircraft from this article's Su-35. It has a new FBW system, new phased array radar, new IRST, new engines, etc. It's classified as a 4th gen++ aircraft and even outwardly looks different from the existing Su-35.

3452:

The Su-35 employs an Irbis-E passive electronically scanned array radar that constitutes an essential component of the aircraft's fire-control system. The radar is capable of detecting a 3-square-metre (32 sq ft) aerial target at a distance of 400 km (250 mi), and can track 30 airborne targets and

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edition of Take-off says that the six units delivered in December 2012 were not the first production Su-35S delivered at all. Sources that claim Sukhoi delivered the first six Su-35S in December are wrong. So, lemme clear a few things up. Two Su-35s prototypes made their first flights in 2008. Two

1894:

First of all, sentences including "perhaps" should probably be avoided in an encyclopaedia, also the sale is mentioned after the lost contract with Libya but the source is a 2002 book (apparently), so the two events are unrelated. Also I tend to doubt that Sukhoi is "desperately" trying to sell it

876:

Hi, Agreed with addition to article. But not with explanation as Radar power and configuration is essential in the missile fighting and targetting abilities of any fighter. Most military analyst now check first how advanced the RADAR is before commenting on anything else about an aircraft. Look at

159:

I know the KnAAPO website states this, but is there any evidence besides that page? I believe it's just a mistake on their website since Rosoboronexport states 12 hardpoints. Also, logically the two extra hardpoints could only be under the nacelles, but there aren't any pictures of it carrying two

3164:

Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for Knowledge. This, however, doesn't necessarily mean it's spam, or not a good

2387:

Speaking of Janes, here's a Jane's IDR article in relation to the T-10BM project, written by Piotr Bukowksi (a well known aviation journalist with particular focus on former Soviet and Russian aircraft) reproduced under fair use on an aviation forum. Though old (at that stage it was still unknown

1233:

The old Su-35 version was basically a set of prototypes. The content for that is not all that much. The new version is an interim fighter and more will come out. This article can easily cover both. Plenty of other articles cover related variants with differences. There's already several Su-27

2476:

Well leaving aside all the above evidence, as to All the World's Aircraft - can you confirm whether it even acknowledges that these two aircraft don't even have the same dimensions? Because if not then that proves said source is simply not probative (Jane's is not perfect, especially in terms of

271:

Or maybe not. At the risk of being accused of being POV again, I'll try to list the many problems I have with your edits tomorrow. I'd honestly try to keep your "critical information" while correcting your errors and mistakes, but since you don't seem to accept that you've made any mistakes, I'd

1706:

There are two Su-35 types: the old one and the real one. The old Su-35 with canards is actually Su-27M. It was called Su-35 for marketing purposes. They had bort numbers 7xx and internal designation T-10M. Also Su-27M with bort number 711 was equipped with TV engines and called Su-37. Again for

3786:

It is my understanding from my reading of the sources that the the Su-27 was merely the Flanker, and that updated versions received additional letter designations. Whether one involves political considerations or not seems immaterial; one would always need to be able to identify aircraft - an

1217:

I dont know those who support know how much about this SU-35BM. The official description header basically emphasize summarize the whole issue: "An old name for a new aircraft". From a Knowledge standard prospective, when the Su-35BM truly unveil to the public, no doubt it will be worth a page

1249:

The Su-35BM is NOT at all a Su-35 upgrade. It is essentially a redesign aircraft. Modified control surface, rework structure, totally different flight control sys, avionics, powerplant all sums up a new aircraft form sketch. Less content under the both topic does not give reason to merge two

330:

Now bearing in mind that I just "strayed" onto this page recently, IMHO, there does need to be some attention ot the article in regards to citations and reference sources. Using primarily electronic (Internet) sources is problematic and most authoritative works on Knowledge begin with the

3746:

TASS and Defense Tech currently report the NATO reporting name for the Su-27M as simply "Flanker" and the Su-35 as "Flanker-E". As these are current sources, I would say they would trump the book. The days of wishful thinking that Russia, China, and NATO would be buddies are long gone.

3772:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way that I understand it is that the names were given more for internal protocol/technical/identification purposes, and less for political/diplomatic reasons. BTW, I couldn't find any magazine articles that referred to the Su-27M as Flanker-E. Regards, --

3691:-- I personally don't understand why it refers to the aircraft as such. Interestingly, the Su-30MKK (Flanker-G) and Su-30MKI (Flanker-H) both have their NATO designations. With regards to your point about the book, this is Gordon's third publication about the aircraft family, after 941:"The average output power of this radar is 5 kW, with peak output at 20 kW; thus the output power of the Su-30MKI and Su-30MK2 would be insufficient. When the H035 radar was tested on Su-30MK No. 503, the detection range was as far as 290 kilometers with 1 kW power output, he said." 3912:

the Sudanese president Omar al-Bashir just discussed with Russian representatives about the possibility of acquiring the Su-30 and Su-35 fighter jets, no contracts were singned during his visit. Sudanese media likely got it incorrectly and thus published distorted claims. Source:

2569:

China has never displayed any interest in the Su-35. Are you confusing it with the negotiations for the Su-27/30 upgrade packages? Or the negotiations for the Su-33? The rest of this is wishful thinking! Claiming that China wants to buy and then Russia being reluctant to sell.

1769: 2936:...The Su-35 surpasses practically all modern fighter jets such as France’s Rafale, Sweden’s Gripen, the Eurofighter 2000, and the modernized US F-15, F-16, and F-18. It is on a par with the fifth-generation US F-35 and F-22A, neither of which are currently on the market. 2354:

the Su-35S is just a variant of the Su-27M then its wrong - period) should control anything. As to sources, nothing I said is in the least bit new or controversial - its all over the internet. You can google everything I said (and then some). Here's just one example:

656:

Is the photo now in the inbox actually of the Su-35? It doesn't seem to have any canards - which according to the article the Su-35 has. In any case - if someone doesn't sort out the image in commons and add things like souces and licenses, there won't be a picture

2372:

Heck - even the dimensions are different. The Su-27M/35 is 22.183m long and has a 14.7m wingspan. The Su-35S is 21.9m long and has a 15.3m wingspan. They're not the same plane and they share virtually no developmental pedigree apart from using the Flanker layout.

3505:

does not have a page range, as I have access to it via ProQuest, which has left out the page numbers. If somebody who has access to the 1999 article and could improve the reference by adding page numbers to the references, that'd be greatly appreciated. Regards,

1895:

since the Su-30MK has been selling quite well on the international market (even to western equipment operators like Malaysia and Indonesia). At the very least I think that the supposition of the author should be removed and the date of the offer should be added.

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problems with theos edits, so many that I ahve reverted wholesale rather than try to keep some. Some of the edits removed sourced information. Others added non-fields to templates, which will not work, and thus not show at all. Other changes were contrary to the

2495:

different aircraft. Changes to the nose, tail, and landing gear can cause those without any changes to the rest of the airframe. There are plenty of aircraft articles where versions are covered that have very different external dimensions and/or weights, e.g.

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has added the information back and seeks a reason why I think it is not notable. This is an article about the aircraft, this level of detail is not required for an aircraft article it is better in an article about the particular radar system. Comments welcome.

3608:

articles as recent as 2016 have referred to the aircraft as Flanker-E), and even if the book was published ten years from now, I still think Gordon's claim about the Su-27M should still be interpreted without taking into account its publication date. Regards,

3876: 3140:

I am pretty sure that I saw 2 planes from Sukhoi in an Midsummer Airshow in Kauhava, Finland in year 1992. They were called Su-30 and Su-35. One of them was a one-seater and the other a two-seater. Don't remember which was which thou (I was 14 at the time).

3713:

Also, I think that it's easy for a trade publication or magazine to casually include a NATO designation (perhaps for identification purposes?), whereas it would require more investigation (which I assume Gordon to have done) to make the statement that NATO

4002:

Oppose, they are very closely related even if they have differences. Similar variants/versions can be covered in one article without issues. This was discussed a few years ago and consensus was to merge (see Merge Su-35BM section in talk page archives).

406:. The airframe itself has been changed in a number of ways and the avionics have been significantly improved. Besides, we're already seeing some confusion on this page (such as "the Su-35, does not possess the canard fins that the Sukhoi Su-30MKI has"). 1496:

The Soviet, er Russian Airforce has a $ 2.5 billion dollar contract for 48 SU-35s plus some other fighters. If the other fighters were not included that would still be only $ 52 million per Su-35. So the real price has got to be around $ 40 million.

567:

The UB's been on my radar for a while, but I haven't dug up much info on it yet. Does anyone have a specifications listing or a useful article on it (not only filled with pictures)? So far, all we can do is say that it exists, if that's what you want.

3474:

Air Forces Monthly and Air International (both Key Publishing) are stating in their respective October 2015 issues that Indonesia has selected the Su-35 to replace it's fleet of F-5Es. Would anyone like to confirm and update this article? --Bobbo9000

2445:

I still feel they are close enough related for one article and Jane's does as well in its All the World's Aircraft entry. The current consensus is to have the articles merged together here. Start a discussion on splitting to get a new consensus. See

971:

I appreciate that you have only edited wikipedia for a few hours but please remember that this is a general encyclopedia not a technical manual it may be worth looking at other aircraft articles and generally around Knowledge to see what is the norm.

760:

I've searched the web and through online defense journals I have access to and I can see nothing more than Russia stating that it WANTS to sell Su-35s to Libya, but nothing concrete on a deal having been placed. Can we have some verification on this?

3054:

Are whatever the problems were that caused the article to be GA-delisted resolved? If so, should the article be submitted for a new GA-review, or is there a different Knowledge mechanism to use to respond to a several months' old delisting? THanks.

3266:

The Su-35 can run its combat vehicles with high supersonic speeds of about Mach 1.5 (about 510 meters per second) at a height of nearly 14,000 feet; F-35 may act primarily at about 9000 meters at a speed of about Mach 0.9 (297 meters per second).

2787:

examples used to conduct state acceptance trials with the Defense Ministry, along with the three prototypes (one of which has presumably not flown), and would later be accepted into the Russian Air Force. The six delivered in December 2012 are

3431:

No reasons provided to justify splitting this article. Splits and merges has been discussed multiple times on this talk page before (see archive page too). The current consensus to merge the Su-35BM article to here was reached in 2010, btw.

382:

I'm not sure where that name comes from, possibly Sukhoi or the Russian Air Force; the aircraft's NATO reporting name is "Flanker-E" and I don't know of any verifiable sources for the name "Super Flanker," so I'd refrain from using it.

3316:

You're such a biased hack, citing a report by David Axe who cites a 2008 RAND report, making your "can't turn, can't climb, can't run" comment third hand. Here's some actual assessment from people who have actually flown the aircraft.

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that the dorsal airbrake would be removed), it adequately summarizes the genesis of the program, and explicitly states that the Su-35S/T-10BM is a new project, with no relationship to the Su-27M/35 apart from the reuse of the name.

3525:

Hello. Just a question about interpretation -- if a source says that in December 1983, the Soviet Council of Ministers decided to use the Su-27 as a basis for the development of the Su-27M, is it fair to say that the Council has

2658:

Sukhoi delivered the first Su-35S serial aircraft in 2011. In December 2012 it delivered its first six serial production units. This needs to be clarified. What's the distinction between serial, production and serial production?

2837:

Su-35S production aircraft were built and delivered in 2011. Another two had been flown by February 2012. In December 2012 Sukhoi delivered a further six Su-35S units to the Air Force. By now 10 Su-35S's had been delivered. --

3565:

Hello. According to Gordon 2007, the Su-27M (and for that matter, the Su-37), did not have any NATO reporting names; the book claims that Soviet openness towards the end of the Cold War didn't warrant such designations. Yet

1712:

New Su-35 is completely different plane than old Su-35 i.e. Su-27M. It has different internal structure, smaller midsection and other aerodynamic improvements. New Su-35 has bort numbers 9xx. Designation Т-10БМ is wrong and

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says "The new Su-35 Flanker-E multi-role fighter will be put into service with the Russian Air Force in two-three years, the head of the Sukhoi aircraft manufacturer said." Perhaps this article is referring to the Su-35BM?

704:

The wingtip mounts can be used to carry IRMs, but it's not as simple as slotting in an IR missile after removing the ECM pod. It requires some specialist attention which means turn around time is usually a few hours.

1791:. Before a couple of months ago, a good bit of the text in this article was written or reworded my me in the 2008-09 timeframe. I say forget that book and remove it from this article. Maybe do a little rewording. - 3604:: I don't think the age of the book would matter much in this case, because the Su-27M made its first flight almost twenty years before it was published. Even if the modernized Su-35 was given a NATO designation ( 2477:

Russian weapon systems) and whoever wrote the entry simply lazily assumed they were the same. In any event, anyone else good at splitting protocol? Far too esoteric for me, I'm a very occasional editor at best.

1733:

Sources of info about Su-27M and Su-35 creation history: official sites www.sukhoi.org and www.knaapo.ru, Andrey Fomin's article in Take-off Magazine August-September/2007, documentary film 'Su-27. Worlds best

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No it should be open. Its relevant, as these two will fight one day no doubt. In a scathing assessment the Rand corporation stated the Pentagon’s big budget F-35 fighter ‘can’t turn, can’t climb, can’t run’

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They were in factory livery, not Russian Air Force. Their support plane was in Aeroflot livery. Which was kind of funny, with the hammer and the sicle on tail and after the recent collapse of the Soviet

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page, with lots of information, then to split one off and have only a stub with scant info, no specs, and no pics. And since they are both currently called Su-35, the same link will bring them here. -

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The article cited for Su-35 for Pakistan does not even mention it. Whoever placed it does not read Russian as Viktor Mikhaylovich is talking about engines of future fighters, not orders to Pakistan.

2577:

Cite 50 covers the Su-35 co-production. Cite 51 follows the next sentence about Su-27 production in China. Cite 51 is a shortened footnote pointing to Zhao book in the Bibliography section, btw. -

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itself. It is pointless to merge now and then split it again for being too long in an article. To merge the two aircraft is like forcing the Hornet and Super Hornet to chunk in one single article.

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The merger justification is based on Jane's Su-35 entry and Sukhoi's site. What sources do you have for the Su-35S having a "substantially new airframe" (other than the removal of the canards)? -

1265:

I don't see where I or anyone called the Su-35BM a simple upgrade. I've written text in this article that summarizes the changes. The old Su-35 does not really warrant its own article, imo. -

776:

K, so there's still nothing announced about any possible Libyan AF purchases and no link verifying any sales of the Su-35 so I've removed the reference (under operators) for the time being. (

3173:. If the link is blacklisted globally and you feel the above applies you may request to whitelist it using the before mentioned request page, or request its removal, or alteration, at the 2636: 1723:

Designation Su-35S is not clear. Some sources calims that it's modification of Su-35 for Russian AF. Official Sukhoi site has no record on 'Su-35S' only 'Su-35' without any letters:

3530:

to use the Su-27 to design the new aircraft? Also, as Piotr Butowski has said that development had started in 1982, what does the Council's 1983 decision actually mean? Regards, --

398:

Despite still using the basic Flanker airframe and Su-35 name, I think the differences between the Su-35 and BM are distinct enough to warrant a new article, like we did with the

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the page with me to find out what the problems are. Now that I've started tht process, maybe we can get down to improving the page, rather than making edits that don't do that. -

1737:

Conclusion: there must be two articles about two different types of aircraft: Su-27M and Su-35. And in both articles must be explanation about 'marketing names': Su-35 and Su-37.

1250:

different aircraft under one single title. This will confuse readers that does not aware the difference of the both aircraft and is an irresponsible way to present information.

3637:

I would be really surprised if NATO assigned a designation, since the Su-27M did not enter into production, and as far as I know, only one aircraft is still flying. Regards, --

1999: 1122: 502:

I have a question that I've had for a very long time and never really had a satisfying answer to it so I ask anyone here. Why do Russian military aircraft manufactures produce

1787:

No, it looks like the book copied text from here. That book is dated 2011 and much of the text of this article easily predates that. Note the same section labels as in this

3848: 231:, who may or may not be the same person. (Hopefully not, as that is sockpuppetry, and a serious breach of policy.) As partially explained in my edit summaries, there are 1516:

There already is a BM page so I'm going to move all the BM stuff over there and redesignate the base 35 as an aerobatic aircraft as it surely is not a combat aircraft.

1087:. The content on both the older and newer versions can be covered in one article without problem. They are largely already covered in the Su-35 Development section. - 3169:. If you feel the link being caught by the blacklist is a false positive, or no longer needed on the blacklist, you may request the regex be removed or altered at the 725:

The first paragraph states that "around five" are in service, but the box on the right says "150 are in active service", which is obviously wrong. Also, this article:

2712:

Four built, but not necessarily delivered as they have been used for testing. The Lenta.ru is the one I was referring. Maybe it was the rough translation of that. -

120:"A Sukhoi Su-30 jet - a similar twin-engine design to the Su-27 - crashed at start of the Paris air show in 1999, but the two pilots ejected and no one was injured." 74:

This article needs major changes. Mainly due to it being out of date and having a large amount of false information. I am preapred to write a new one from scratch.

3673:

I still don't understand why your so quick to dismiss Jane's. They're not infallible, but neither is Gordon. It's a lot easier to correct a website than a book. -

2735:

say it had delivered the first six Su-35S fighters although two had been delivered in 2011? These inconsistencies are driving me insane. Damn those Russkies --

1428:

Well, the present Su-35 aka Su-35BM aka Su-27SM is a whole new design approach. It should not be confuse with and to relate to the Su-35 on this page. Regards

590:

Yeah, I haven't seen too much info about it yet either, but I think its existence (at least) should definitely be included. Here is a specifications listing:

2112:

Jane's 2010/11 says that Su-35S is the main production version of the Su-35 and that Su-35BM is an old name for the Su-35S. This calls for a single article.

3453:

engage eight of them at the same time. Su-35S uses the N135 Irbis passive antenna array with electronic scanning radar further improve the Su-35 a locator

3570:

refers to the modernised Su-35 as such. Does anyone have any insight into this discrepancy? I'm more inclined to accept the view from the book. Regards, --

2593: 2871:

is an organ of state or pseudo-state propaganda highly favorable to Russia and her allies, but wonder what consensus is on the suitability of RT.com as a

3820:

that's been used dates back to 23 August this year. There hasn't been any confirmation from the Indonesian or Russian governments yet; instead there's

3466:

The cockpit photo provided in this article is of an SU-30, not an SU-35. The SU-35 has two much larger displays and does away with all analog gauges.

909:

The sentence only lists the power rating and nothing about how it relates to the Su-35. If it was the radar's range limits that would be different. -

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Hi, yes agreed its not completely a technical manual. However many articles on wikipedia are a technical manual see the maths or physics articles

521:

The talk page is really for discussing the article not for general questions, but I dont think they do produce more variants - have you looked at

1303:

Oppose - Su-35/Su-27M/T-10M and Su-35/Su-27Sm2/Su-27BM/T-10BM, It would be better to use twinn name designations for all Su-27 aircrafts like -

1597:

and Aviapedia.com are about the only semi-RS refs I can find for it. There is no mention of Su-35BM on Sukhoi's web site (sukhoi.org), btw. -

289:

Ok, I apologize for being a bit rude, because there is no need for that so sorry. However, the removal of the citations is just plain wrong.--

3858: 3370: 1865:. I myself have informative and interesting books written by Yefim Gordon and Eden Paul. There's no need for books like the above mentioned. 1461: 690: 3985: 3767:: Thank you for your input. I have to say that the book sometimes have claims that do not corroborate with other publications (eg that the 3271: 3146: 2602: 2217: 1574:

The sale is thus far not official, Chavez did mention it a few times as a possibility, but thus far they only have SU-30MK2 type planes. --

3849:

https://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2017/11/20/Sudan-recieves-Russian-fighters-ahead-of-Bashir-s-first-visit-to-Moscow.html

3394: 2971: 2914:: 1) it claims the Su-35 is colloquially known as the "UFO" because it's super-maneuverable even for a Sukhoi! Is that article-worthy? 814:

You're welcome to update the total and add a new reference. That was the best info I could find from a decent reference (warfare.ru). -

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That info was in the article before. I removed it for similar reasons. Just did not think that detail was important. Still don't. -

2501: 1451:

2.25 is not 2700 km/h, get it right already. Jesus. I corrected to the higher one, because I consider MAKS site a better reference.

176: 1768:

It turns out a large part of this article's content has been word for word ripped straight out of Russian AF material; please see:

1139:- Yes as the nominator. Better to have related versions together where they can be covered better without repeating information. - 3623:

So a NATO designation couldn't have been assigned or changed by NATO in the 10 years since the book was published? Interesting. -

2798:

So I would assume that at the end of 2012, there were 13 Su-35s, 10 of which are one way or another with the Russian Air Force. --

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Aren't the sorbtsyja (or how it is called) ECM-pods hard-mounted at wingtips? At least every photo of the su-35 suggests this.

935:

For the educated reader the power of the radar directly gives a rough estimation of range. Moreover, it does talk about range

1998:

Add * '''Support''' or * '''Oppose''' on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your entry using ~~~~. Since

1279:

Ah nevermind. This article can briefly cover the new Su-35 to explain the differences and point to the Su-35BM article. -

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2027:- Su-35BM/S seems to be an improved production version of the prototype Su-35. They can happily be covered in one article. 1298:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

3120:. Jane's Information Group. 6 February 2013."). It's missing the ISSN/ISBN, publisher location and page number. Cheers -- 3279: 2932:

2) another seemingly-dubious statement that I'd want to get feedback on before referencing from RT.com is this claim:

2594:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2013/03/25/after-a-decade-long-wait-china-and-russia-ink-super-jet-military-deal/

86:

I'm done listing the basic differences detween the Su-35(A) and the Su-35BM. Can someone clean up and organize neatly?

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In addition, the internal company designation is Т-10БМ (BM), per Russian language wiki article, that lists it as BM.

745: 1772:. Upwards of 20 sentences are direct copy-pastes, and I didn't count beyond that, but this is a very severe problem. 3874: 3264:

http://vpk.name/news/122665_voennyii_ekspert_su35_yavlyaetsya_ugrozoi_dlya_amerikanskih_istrebitelei.html?last#last

38: 3879:

suggests the aircraft are more likely Su-30Ks. User:BlackFlanker should be able to provide more details on this.

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Super-maneuverable even for a Sukhoi, the Su-35 has been dubbed the "UFO" for its outstanding maneuverability.

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Sure. I've got no problem with it. It seems out of place in an article about a Russian fighter jet anyway. --

3457:

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Sukhoi_Su-35&type=revision&diff=674700036&oldid=674698938

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https://www.defensenews.com/air/2016/03/01/norwegian-f-35-pilot-counters-controversial-dogfighting-report/

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Su-27M/Su-35 first flew in 1988. The new Su-35 flew in 2008. The difference is explained in the text. -

256:

Total POV you have removed citations and removed other critical information this is serious vanadalism.--

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I think its best to use all the possible designations seen thus far, akin to this fairly respected site

1355:

chiefly about the original Su-35. It makes no sense to have the Su-35BM's specifications on both pages.

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16 Su-35 airplanes were produced. 12: 701-712, 3: 86-88 (for Akhtubinsk air base), 1: 801 (Su-35UB). --

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This is not a forum and it doesnt appear to be a comment on improving the article we can close this.

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article! You can always ask the question and explain in more detail where you are coming from on the

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derivative articles. Nobody else has done any real improvement to the Su-35BM article in months. -

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Su-35BM is made up name. Besides the version Russia ordered into production appears to be Su-35S.

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The buzz on the net has it that the Patriarch's Su-35 is a scale model, not the actual aircraft.

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http://wayback.archive.org/web/20110728161032/http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/su-35/

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There are differences in their external dimensions. That in of itself does not prove there are

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Then please do. Just edit it from the topmost link, remove all content and start from scratch.

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People Change the First FLight part its first flight was February 19, 2008. AND NOT MAY 1988

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source for that indicates that 2 were planned to be delivered when the contract was signed. -

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Some sources are reporting the recent sale of the fighter to Sudan. The wiki article on the

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The Su-35BM is the modernized version of the Su-35. The manufacturer Sukhoi just calls the

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Depends on what sub-model you're referring to. THe first basic Su-35 flew in 1988 tho. -

420:

Moreover, Su-35 has a another difference with the MKI apart from the canard fins - its a

3958:

This article has to be split into article about old Su-35 and an article about new Su-35

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Why is it always a problem for wiki to get the speed and various convertions correctly?

1121:

on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~. Since

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link. If the link is a good link, you may wish to request whitelisting by going to the

3061: 2950: 2920: 2893: 2418: 2117: 2028: 1951: 1828: 1728: 1320: 1064: 882:. He goes into length about the importance of the RADAR power in a fighters abilities. 777: 762: 706: 658: 475: 368: 340: 197: 130:

This, too. To whoever added that: not everything with canards is an Su-35 or Su-37...

2061:

Just so long as the current aircraft is noted as being a non-fighter airshow acrobat.

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Listing them is fine, but that can be done in the text instead of section label(s). -

1613: 1598: 1535: 1477: 1413: 1338: 1280: 1266: 1235: 1140: 1088: 1051: 1003: 910: 859: 815: 2146:- The Su-35BM is a an advanced type of the Su-35 and doesn't justify a new article. 1476:

I believe specs from Sukhoi and KNAAPO's over some display at an air show any day. -

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Very devious of them, stealing directly from Knowledge. The book shall be removed.

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on an offset agreement. So I don't think we should list Indonesia yet. Regards, --

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RIA novosti, the official Russian state news agency, also uses the BM designation

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Please can you give detailed reason why you believe "not important to aircraft"?--

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Answer: so called multi-payload racks can be used to "increase" number of pylons

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variants in comparison to other military aircraft manufactures in the world???--

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/01/world-war-3-north-korea-to-buy-russias-su-35/

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Sukhoi Flankers, The Shifting Balance of Regional Air Power" by Dr Carlo Kopp

3873:

This report only seems to be coming from local sources. This Russian source

1593:

Can someone add a better reference for the Big/Deep Modernization part? The

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Would someone want to risk inserting these claims into the article based on

2915: 2888: 2182:: These are two very different plane, so the article can not be combined. -- 2113: 403: 336: 3817: 3215:

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact

3030:"UFO over Paris? Unique Russian 4++ gen fighter to debut at Paris Air Show" 3005:"UFO over Paris? Unique Russian 4++ gen fighter to debut at Paris Air Show" 3350:"Pentagon's big budget F-35 fighter 'can't turn, can't climb, can't run'" 2881:

UFO over Paris? Unique Russian 4++ gen fighter to debut at Paris Air Show

2694: 2355: 598:

http://www.deagel.com/Strike-and-Fighter-Aircraft/Su-35UB_a000320006.aspx

549:

I think some mention should definitely be given to the two-seat Su-35UB (

3816:

Hi. According to the recent addition of Indonesia as a future operator,

3545:

I love this aircraft have you more reliable source abou this?, thanks.--

3381:

North Korea To Buy Russia’s Su-35 To Invade South In A Lightning Assault

2833: 2413:

I can only add that reusing names was not uncommon in Soviet times. See

1534:

No real reason the Su-35 and its variants can't both be covered here. -

836:

The average output of the Su-35 Radar is 5 kW and a peak output of 20 kW

2818:

says the Su-35S that flew in May 2011 is a production-standard unit. --

2697:

says the Russian Air Force received two production versions in 2011. --

335:

the passage will indicate to readers that the statement was withdrawn.

2234:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/su-35bm-design.htm

399: 3448:

Su-35 employs an Irbis-E/ But/ In service Su-35 S employs N135 Irbis

2573:

Where is the "Zhao 2004, p. 216." from? Sounds like a fake source.

2390:

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showpost.php?p=812077&postcount=1

648: 2255:. Officials just says that Su-35's RCS is lower than Su-27's RCS. 3768: 3585:

So the book is 10+ years out of date? When in IHS Jane's dated? -

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The article already says this in the Operational history section.

2292:

Did this happen or not? The current article seems a bit unclear.

311:

Stop removing citing information and vandalising the article.--

2970:

That is a biased comment and I have removed from the article.

2875:-source? Specifically this is w.r.t. any usable material from 551:

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/flankers_pages/su-35ub.htm

94:

Wasn't it an Su-30MK that crashed at the 1999 Paris Air Show?

25: 3413:

I Proposed to Splitting the Su-35 (1988) and Su-35 (2008). --

355:

Who exactly calls the Su-35 the Super Flanker? Flanker is a

223:

I have recently reverted multiple edits/additions/changes by

2883:. Feedback is be appreciated before I would add anything to 105:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/28/1027497446606.html

3980:

I tend to agree. This article is technically for the Su-35

3181:

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

1974:: The Su-35BM/Su-35S is a derivative of the Su-27M/-35 as 1853:

Lucky we all have access to reliable info outlets such as

2078:

Su-35BM is a made up name and Su-35S is just a variant.--

1676:

http://www.rian.ru/infografika/20090202/160777380-ig.html

2316:

emerged of a considerably modified Su-27 fighter, which

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Proposed to Splitting the Su-35 (1988) and Su-35 (2008)

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So what is your reply to this? I wait for your reply.--

1890:

Offering the aircraft to Australia out of desperation?

3847:

lists it in its inventory with the following source:

3116:

Could somebody please expand FN 130 ("Sukhoi Su-35",

2210:

Whats the real RCS of the SU-35? References please!

1337:

Note discussion closed in December with a no merge. -

1925:

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

1729:

http://www.knaapo.ru/eng/products/military/su-35.wbp

1657: 1044:

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

3186:http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/su-35/ 2781:This would mean the first four Su-35S's are serial 1707:

marketing purposes only. Su-27M program was closed.

1552:Then change the BM page into a redirect back here. 1512:

I will toss everything about BM out of this article

529:they may be for helpfull with off-topic questions. 2617:That's been in article for months. See bottom of 1614:http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Su-35S-Flanker.html 3499:Hello. At the moment Piotr Butowski's article in 2761:, the delivery plan for the Su-35S is as follow: 3851:Should we add this information to the article? 3787:adversary or an ally - by a recognizable term. 553:), which is easy to confuse with the Su-30MKI.-- 452:Zaku please can you start the article, thanks.-- 2639:says China ordered 24 planes in March 2014. -- 727:http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080220/99687166.html 418:I agree with you on a new article for Su-35BM.' 592:http://www.airwar.ru/enc_e/fighter/su35ub.html 272:probably be reverted for "vandalism" again. - 3693:Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker: Air Superiority Fighter 2690:Four Su-35S's had been completed bu Feb 2012. 1928:A summary of the conclusions reached follows. 128:http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws001/msnbc001.htm 8: 3938:BlackFlanker, thanks so much for the info! - 1725:http://sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/Su-35/ 1454:If anyone disagrees, we can talk about it. 3718:assign an aircraft designation. Regards, -- 1727:. KnAAPO plant site has only 'Su-35' page: 107:This should be enough proof to remove that 3852: 3388: 3219:and ask him to program me with more info. 2000:polling is not a substitute for discussion 1123:polling is not a substitute for discussion 679:Armament: 2× wingtip rails for R-73... ??? 2887:that uses RT.com as a source! Thank you. 1764:Possible copyright violations in content 3160:Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page 596:There are also a couple sentences here: 3341: 2996: 1050:No census to merge the articles here. - 721:Discrepancies: how many are in service? 2356:http://www.milavia.net/aircraft/su-35/ 838:as being not notable to the aircraft. 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 3222:From your friendly hard working bot.— 1079:for detailes on performing meregers.) 359:codename - Do NATO call the aircraft 7: 1919:The following discussion is closed. 1038:The following discussion is closed. 2795:another batch of production units. 1966:for details on performing mergers.) 1823:Might be appropriate to list it at 1444:can peopel get speed right or what? 2288:Venezuelan Air Force order of 2008 2129:- One basic type = one article. - 1964:Knowledge:Merging and moving pages 1077:Knowledge:Merging and moving pages 796:Your cite is not completely true. 24: 2502:Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II 884:(See section: Su-30 Growth Paths) 2450:for more info, including tags. - 2197:The discussion above is closed. 1294:The discussion above is closed. 29: 3118:Jane's All the World's Aircraft 1658:http://ru.wikipedia.org/Су-35БМ 1492:Su-35 can not cost $ 60 million 3800:06:52, 27 September 2017 (UTC) 3782:00:45, 27 September 2017 (UTC) 3760:18:56, 26 September 2017 (UTC) 3728:01:52, 27 September 2017 (UTC) 3709:01:43, 27 September 2017 (UTC) 3683:01:22, 27 September 2017 (UTC) 3647:01:09, 27 September 2017 (UTC) 3633:00:52, 27 September 2017 (UTC) 3619:00:45, 27 September 2017 (UTC) 3595:18:26, 26 September 2017 (UTC) 3580:14:04, 26 September 2017 (UTC) 3253:06:36, 17 September 2014 (UTC) 2631:21:50, 22 September 2013 (UTC) 2611:21:42, 22 September 2013 (UTC) 2175:23:10, 28 September 2010 (UTC) 2156:00:37, 29 September 2010 (UTC) 2139:22:29, 24 September 2010 (UTC) 2122:20:26, 24 September 2010 (UTC) 2105:17:45, 24 September 2010 (UTC) 2088:17:21, 24 September 2010 (UTC) 2071:23:07, 21 September 2010 (UTC) 2054:22:57, 21 September 2010 (UTC) 2037:22:18, 21 September 2010 (UTC) 2020:21:53, 21 September 2010 (UTC) 2002:, please explain your reasons. 1988:21:53, 21 September 2010 (UTC) 1589:Su-35BM Big/Deep Modernization 1562:18:25, 22 September 2009 (UTC) 1544:18:20, 22 September 2009 (UTC) 1526:18:07, 22 September 2009 (UTC) 1125:, please explain your reasons. 1: 4013:20:29, 19 February 2018 (UTC) 3994:19:18, 19 February 2018 (UTC) 3963:'T-10BM' is never existed. -- 3897:17:45, 28 November 2017 (UTC) 3867:23:24, 25 November 2017 (UTC) 3495:Adding page numbers to source 3167:request page for whitelisting 3136:Su-35 in Finnish airshow 1992 3131:05:42, 10 November 2013 (UTC) 2654:Serial and serial production? 1719:All OKB Sukhoi aircraft types 1507:00:32, 5 September 2009 (UTC) 1060:00:54, 23 December 2008 (UTC) 750:19:11, 20 February 2008 (UTC) 635:22:10, 16 December 2007 (UTC) 610:02:57, 13 December 2007 (UTC) 563:22:50, 25 November 2007 (UTC) 539:23:30, 24 November 2007 (UTC) 516:20:36, 24 November 2007 (UTC) 488:20:54, 24 November 2007 (UTC) 462:20:28, 24 November 2007 (UTC) 444:20:17, 24 November 2007 (UTC) 411:20:10, 24 November 2007 (UTC) 388:20:02, 24 November 2007 (UTC) 377:18:39, 24 November 2007 (UTC) 345:15:53, 24 November 2007 (UTC) 321:08:43, 24 November 2007 (UTC) 299:09:43, 24 November 2007 (UTC) 282:09:39, 24 November 2007 (UTC) 266:08:50, 24 November 2007 (UTC) 251:06:50, 24 November 2007 (UTC) 165:20:35, 4 September 2007 (UTC) 135:18:36, 30 November 2006 (UTC) 112:18:34, 30 November 2006 (UTC) 99:00:57, 30 November 2006 (UTC) 3973:17:35, 17 January 2018 (UTC) 3948:14:38, 1 December 2017 (UTC) 3926:13:03, 1 December 2017 (UTC) 3834:02:43, 2 November 2017 (UTC) 3812:Indonesia as future operator 3687:I take back my objection to 3489:09:52, 24 October 2015 (UTC) 3403:17:25, 13 January 2015 (UTC) 3327:10:03, 2 November 2017 (UTC) 3296:19:40, 8 December 2014 (UTC) 3281:12:56, 8 December 2014 (UTC) 3206:\bairforce-technology\.com\b 3192:\bairforce-technology\.com\b 2587:16:14, 4 November 2012 (UTC) 2551:11:19, 1 February 2013 (UTC) 2518:18:11, 30 January 2013 (UTC) 2487:11:23, 26 January 2013 (UTC) 2460:16:48, 24 January 2013 (UTC) 2431:16:18, 24 January 2013 (UTC) 2401:00:44, 23 January 2013 (UTC) 2383:23:51, 22 January 2013 (UTC) 2368:23:48, 22 January 2013 (UTC) 2345:16:02, 22 January 2013 (UTC) 2330:08:59, 22 January 2013 (UTC) 2276:19:33, 22 January 2012 (UTC) 2165:: Agree with the rationale. 1750:14:52, 20 January 2012 (UTC) 1688:18:01, 14 January 2011 (UTC) 1670:17:53, 14 January 2011 (UTC) 1644:17:51, 14 January 2011 (UTC) 1626:17:43, 14 January 2011 (UTC) 1607:17:19, 14 January 2011 (UTC) 1584:17:58, 14 January 2011 (UTC) 1289:23:01, 8 December 2008 (UTC) 1275:20:33, 8 December 2008 (UTC) 1260:18:47, 8 December 2008 (UTC) 1244:05:21, 8 December 2008 (UTC) 1228:04:15, 8 December 2008 (UTC) 1207:04:15, 8 December 2008 (UTC) 1183:21:36, 7 December 2008 (UTC) 1166:21:29, 7 December 2008 (UTC) 1149:21:06, 7 December 2008 (UTC) 1097:21:02, 7 December 2008 (UTC) 1016:20:08, 7 December 2008 (UTC) 982:19:58, 7 December 2008 (UTC) 953:19:32, 7 December 2008 (UTC) 919:19:20, 7 December 2008 (UTC) 896:19:15, 7 December 2008 (UTC) 868:18:54, 7 December 2008 (UTC) 853:18:52, 7 December 2008 (UTC) 699:20:53, 30 January 2008 (UTC) 673:19:28, 3 December 2007 (UTC) 662:19:19, 3 December 2007 (UTC) 584:05:20, 2 December 2007 (UTC) 394:New article for the Su-35BM? 213:23:13, 29 October 2007 (UTC) 201:23:05, 29 October 2007 (UTC) 160:pieces of ordnance there. - 3555:14:30, 28 August 2017 (UTC) 3106:23:41, 2 October 2013 (UTC) 3090:11:40, 2 October 2013 (UTC) 2879:published (June 17, 2013): 2192:08:13, 1 October 2010 (UTC) 1942:13:45, 6 October 2010 (UTC) 1825:Knowledge:Mirrors and forks 824:21:00, 2 October 2008 (UTC) 809:20:45, 2 October 2008 (UTC) 219:Recent non-productive edits 4029: 3502:Jane's Intelligence Review 3442:15:24, 31 March 2015 (UTC) 3423:09:07, 31 March 2015 (UTC) 3050:GA-review or reassessment? 2910:Just 2 examples from that 2848:01:14, 14 April 2013 (UTC) 2829:01:05, 14 April 2013 (UTC) 2809:00:45, 14 April 2013 (UTC) 2746:05:00, 13 April 2013 (UTC) 2722:04:01, 13 April 2013 (UTC) 2708:03:48, 13 April 2013 (UTC) 2686:02:14, 13 April 2013 (UTC) 2670:01:23, 13 April 2013 (UTC) 2592:China is buying 24 Su-35: 2318:retained the name of Su-35 2246:17:46, 23 March 2011 (UTC) 2226:14:10, 23 March 2011 (UTC) 1486:12:48, 24 April 2009 (UTC) 1470:20:41, 23 April 2009 (UTC) 1438:03:37, 23 March 2009 (UTC) 1422:00:18, 23 March 2009 (UTC) 1406:23:03, 22 March 2009 (UTC) 1390:22:47, 22 March 2009 (UTC) 1365:19:43, 27 April 2009 (UTC) 1347:08:34, 11 March 2009 (UTC) 1329:00:17, 11 March 2009 (UTC) 527:Aircraft Project talk page 432:I happily concur with Zaku 82:11:40, 19 March 2006 (UTC) 3540:02:16, 25 July 2017 (UTC) 3521:Interpretation of sources 3516:09:26, 23 July 2017 (UTC) 3234:11:47, 3 April 2014 (UTC) 3155:20:35, 6 March 2014 (UTC) 3070:17:39, 18 June 2013 (UTC) 2980:10:05, 30 June 2013 (UTC) 2959:07:55, 18 June 2013 (UTC) 2929:07:50, 18 June 2013 (UTC) 2902:06:13, 18 June 2013 (UTC) 2877:this current news article 2302:21:49, 19 July 2012 (UTC) 1906:20:48, 28 July 2011 (UTC) 1878:02:15, 15 July 2011 (UTC) 1837:02:04, 15 July 2011 (UTC) 1819:15:26, 14 July 2011 (UTC) 1801:14:36, 14 July 2011 (UTC) 1789:version from January 2011 1782:13:57, 14 July 2011 (UTC) 434:new article on Su-35BM.-- 430:like the MKI. Therefore, 150:23:21, 28 July 2007 (UTC) 3239:Patriarch Kirill's Su-35 2834:Page 6 of the March 2013 2790:indeed the first serial 2649:12:55, 25 May 2014 (UTC) 2199:Please do not modify it. 2010:: Per rationale above. - 1922:Please do not modify it. 1296:Please do not modify it. 1041:Please do not modify it. 834:I removed the statement 786:18:33, 6 June 2008 (UTC) 771:03:20, 1 June 2008 (UTC) 715:03:17, 1 June 2008 (UTC) 185:12:18, 2 July 2008 (UTC) 3032:. RT.com. June 17, 2013 3007:. RT.com. June 17, 2013 2867:Hello. I am aware that 3208:on the local blacklist 3194:on the local blacklist 3171:blacklist request page 2938: 2253:Real RCS is classified 2044:agree with rationale. 1717:. You can check here: 653: 191:Future of this article 3470:TNI-AU Su-35 Purchase 3238: 2934: 1085:newer version "Su-35" 756:Libyan AF Su-35 deal. 651: 42:of past discussions. 3697:Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker 3175:request page on meta 2757:Bingo! According to 1855:Flight International 523:F-16 Fighting Falcon 3877:English translation 3699:(2006). Regards, -- 3561:NATO reporting name 3462:Su-35 cockpit photo 2859:= valid source for 2637:This Finnish source 2307:Merge Su-35S part 2 1932:Closed as Merge. - 1595:Globalsecurtity.org 229:User:Historian info 3845:Sudanese Air Force 3217:User:Cyberpower678 2732:translated article 2619:Sukhoi Su-35#China 2565:China buying Su-35 2506:Bell UH-1 Iroquois 792:How much produced? 654: 474:My thanks to Zaku 3908:according to the 3869: 3857:comment added by 3405: 3393:comment added by 2601:comment added by 2279: 2262:comment added by 2216:comment added by 1872: 1740:Sincerely yours, 1570:Sale to Venezuela 1460:comment added by 1380:comment added by 752: 736:comment added by 701: 689:comment added by 637: 625:comment added by 586: 574:comment added by 187: 175:comment added by 67: 66: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 18:Talk:Sukhoi Su-35 4020: 3886: 3796: 3794: 3756: 3754: 3373: 3368: 3362: 3361: 3359: 3357: 3346: 3226: 3207: 3193: 3042: 3041: 3039: 3037: 3026: 3020: 3019: 3014: 3012: 3001: 2613: 2278: 2256: 2228: 1976:stated by Sukhoi 1924: 1871: 1868: 1472: 1392: 1043: 937:(290 kilometers) 877:this article on 731: 684: 620: 569: 351:"Super" Flanker? 170: 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 4028: 4027: 4023: 4022: 4021: 4019: 4018: 4017: 3960: 3880: 3859:104.163.175.181 3841: 3839:Su-35 in Sudan? 3814: 3792: 3790: 3752: 3750: 3563: 3528:directed Sukhoi 3523: 3497: 3472: 3464: 3450: 3411: 3383: 3378: 3377: 3376: 3369: 3365: 3355: 3353: 3348: 3347: 3343: 3261: 3241: 3232: 3224: 3205: 3191: 3162: 3138: 3129: 3114: 3112:Expand citation 3104: 3077: 3052: 3047: 3046: 3045: 3035: 3033: 3028: 3027: 3023: 3010: 3008: 3003: 3002: 2998: 2865: 2846: 2827: 2807: 2774:12 in 2014, and 2744: 2706: 2668: 2656: 2596: 2567: 2314:general concept 2309: 2290: 2257: 2211: 2208: 2203: 2202: 1995: 1949: 1920: 1913: 1892: 1869: 1766: 1591: 1572: 1514: 1494: 1462:128.100.123.155 1455: 1446: 1375: 1372: 1317:Su-35 (Su-27BM) 1309:Su-34 (Su-27IB) 1300: 1299: 1215: 1119: 1113: 1112:* '''Support''' 1105: 1048: 1039: 1032: 1030:Merger proposal 832: 794: 758: 723: 691:217.185.164.137 681: 646: 547: 500: 396: 365:Super Flanker-E 353: 328: 309: 221: 193: 157: 143: 92: 79:Starcraftmazter 72: 59: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 4026: 4024: 4016: 4015: 3999: 3998: 3997: 3996: 3986:212.73.224.250 3959: 3956: 3955: 3954: 3953: 3952: 3951: 3950: 3931: 3930: 3929: 3928: 3900: 3899: 3840: 3837: 3813: 3810: 3809: 3808: 3807: 3806: 3805: 3804: 3803: 3802: 3744: 3743: 3742: 3741: 3740: 3739: 3738: 3737: 3736: 3735: 3734: 3733: 3732: 3731: 3730: 3658: 3657: 3656: 3655: 3654: 3653: 3652: 3651: 3650: 3649: 3562: 3559: 3558: 3557: 3522: 3519: 3496: 3493: 3492: 3491: 3471: 3468: 3463: 3460: 3449: 3446: 3445: 3444: 3410: 3407: 3382: 3379: 3375: 3374: 3363: 3352:. 14 July 2014 3340: 3339: 3335: 3334: 3333: 3332: 3331: 3330: 3329: 3309: 3308: 3307: 3306: 3299: 3298: 3272:89.105.158.243 3260: 3256: 3245:Alan G. Archer 3240: 3237: 3230: 3213: 3212: 3211: 3210: 3198: 3197: 3196: 3161: 3158: 3147:80.186.166.231 3137: 3134: 3125: 3113: 3110: 3109: 3108: 3100: 3076: 3073: 3051: 3048: 3044: 3043: 3021: 2995: 2994: 2990: 2989: 2988: 2987: 2986: 2985: 2984: 2983: 2982: 2931: 2912:RT.com article 2909: 2864: 2854: 2853: 2852: 2851: 2850: 2842: 2823: 2803: 2784:pre-production 2779: 2778: 2775: 2772: 2769: 2766: 2755: 2754: 2753: 2752: 2751: 2750: 2749: 2748: 2740: 2725: 2724: 2702: 2664: 2655: 2652: 2634: 2633: 2603:68.225.124.226 2590: 2589: 2566: 2563: 2562: 2561: 2560: 2559: 2558: 2557: 2556: 2555: 2554: 2553: 2529: 2528: 2527: 2526: 2525: 2524: 2523: 2522: 2521: 2520: 2467: 2466: 2465: 2464: 2463: 2462: 2438: 2437: 2436: 2435: 2434: 2433: 2406: 2405: 2404: 2403: 2385: 2370: 2348: 2347: 2308: 2305: 2289: 2286: 2285: 2284: 2283: 2282: 2281: 2280: 2218:194.103.205.27 2207: 2204: 2196: 2195: 2194: 2177: 2159: 2158: 2141: 2124: 2107: 2090: 2073: 2056: 2039: 2022: 1994: 1991: 1969: 1968: 1952:Sukhoi Su-35BM 1948: 1947: 1946: 1945: 1944: 1915: 1914: 1912: 1909: 1898:Hyper Shinchan 1896: 1891: 1888: 1887: 1886: 1885: 1884: 1883: 1882: 1881: 1880: 1844: 1843: 1842: 1841: 1840: 1839: 1804: 1803: 1765: 1762: 1761: 1760: 1759: 1758: 1757: 1756: 1755: 1754: 1753: 1752: 1738: 1735: 1731: 1721: 1709: 1708: 1695: 1694: 1693: 1692: 1691: 1690: 1672: 1649: 1648: 1647: 1646: 1629: 1628: 1590: 1587: 1571: 1568: 1567: 1566: 1565: 1564: 1547: 1546: 1513: 1510: 1493: 1490: 1489: 1488: 1445: 1442: 1441: 1440: 1425: 1424: 1409: 1408: 1371: 1368: 1352: 1351: 1350: 1349: 1332: 1331: 1313:Su-35 (Su-27M) 1305:Su-33 (Su-27K) 1293: 1292: 1291: 1277: 1247: 1246: 1214: 1211: 1210: 1209: 1191: 1190: 1186: 1185: 1168: 1151: 1133: 1132: 1128: 1127: 1120: 1118:* '''Oppose''' 1117: 1114: 1111: 1104: 1101: 1100: 1099: 1081: 1065:Sukhoi Su-35BM 1047: 1046: 1034: 1033: 1031: 1028: 1027: 1026: 1025: 1024: 1023: 1022: 1021: 1020: 1019: 1018: 991: 990: 989: 988: 987: 986: 985: 984: 962: 961: 960: 959: 958: 957: 956: 955: 926: 925: 924: 923: 922: 921: 902: 901: 900: 899: 871: 870: 831: 828: 827: 826: 793: 790: 757: 754: 722: 719: 680: 677: 676: 675: 645: 642: 641: 640: 639: 638: 613: 612: 594: 546: 543: 542: 541: 508:Historian info 499: 496: 495: 494: 493: 492: 491: 490: 480:Historian info 476:Sukhoi Su-35BM 467: 466: 465: 464: 454:Historian info 447: 446: 436:Historian info 395: 392: 391: 390: 352: 349: 327: 324: 313:Historian info 308: 305: 304: 303: 302: 301: 291:Historian info 269: 268: 258:Historian info 220: 217: 216: 215: 192: 189: 156: 155:14 hardpoints? 153: 142: 139: 138: 137: 124: 123: 122: 121: 115: 114: 91: 88: 71: 68: 65: 64: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 4025: 4014: 4010: 4006: 4001: 4000: 3995: 3991: 3987: 3983: 3979: 3978: 3977: 3976: 3975: 3974: 3970: 3966: 3957: 3949: 3945: 3941: 3937: 3936: 3935: 3934: 3933: 3932: 3927: 3923: 3919: 3916: 3911: 3907: 3904: 3903: 3902: 3901: 3898: 3894: 3890: 3884: 3878: 3875: 3872: 3871: 3870: 3868: 3864: 3860: 3856: 3850: 3846: 3838: 3836: 3835: 3831: 3827: 3823: 3819: 3811: 3801: 3798: 3797: 3785: 3784: 3783: 3779: 3775: 3770: 3766: 3763: 3762: 3761: 3758: 3757: 3745: 3729: 3725: 3721: 3717: 3712: 3711: 3710: 3706: 3702: 3698: 3694: 3690: 3686: 3685: 3684: 3680: 3676: 3672: 3671: 3670: 3669: 3668: 3667: 3666: 3665: 3664: 3663: 3662: 3661: 3660: 3659: 3648: 3644: 3640: 3636: 3635: 3634: 3630: 3626: 3622: 3621: 3620: 3616: 3612: 3607: 3603: 3600: 3599: 3598: 3597: 3596: 3592: 3588: 3584: 3583: 3582: 3581: 3577: 3573: 3569: 3560: 3556: 3552: 3548: 3544: 3543: 3542: 3541: 3537: 3533: 3529: 3520: 3518: 3517: 3513: 3509: 3504: 3503: 3494: 3490: 3486: 3482: 3478: 3477: 3476: 3469: 3467: 3461: 3459: 3458: 3454: 3447: 3443: 3439: 3435: 3430: 3427: 3426: 3425: 3424: 3420: 3416: 3408: 3406: 3404: 3400: 3396: 3395:143.85.167.18 3392: 3387: 3380: 3372: 3367: 3364: 3351: 3345: 3342: 3338: 3328: 3324: 3320: 3315: 3314: 3313: 3312: 3311: 3310: 3303: 3302: 3301: 3300: 3297: 3293: 3289: 3285: 3284: 3283: 3282: 3277: 3273: 3268: 3265: 3257: 3255: 3254: 3250: 3246: 3236: 3235: 3229: 3227: 3220: 3218: 3209: 3204:Triggered by 3202: 3201: 3199: 3195: 3190:Triggered by 3188: 3187: 3185: 3184: 3183: 3182: 3178: 3176: 3172: 3168: 3159: 3157: 3156: 3152: 3148: 3142: 3135: 3133: 3132: 3128: 3123: 3119: 3111: 3107: 3103: 3098: 3094: 3093: 3092: 3091: 3087: 3083: 3074: 3072: 3071: 3068: 3067: 3064: 3060: 3059: 3049: 3031: 3025: 3022: 3018: 3006: 3000: 2997: 2993: 2981: 2977: 2973: 2972:98.209.42.117 2969: 2968: 2967: 2966: 2965: 2964: 2963: 2962: 2961: 2960: 2957: 2956: 2953: 2949: 2948: 2943: 2937: 2933: 2930: 2927: 2926: 2923: 2919: 2918: 2913: 2908: 2904: 2903: 2900: 2899: 2896: 2892: 2891: 2886: 2882: 2878: 2874: 2870: 2862: 2858: 2855: 2849: 2845: 2840: 2835: 2832: 2831: 2830: 2826: 2821: 2817: 2813: 2812: 2811: 2810: 2806: 2801: 2796: 2794: 2793: 2786: 2785: 2776: 2773: 2770: 2767: 2764: 2763: 2762: 2760: 2747: 2743: 2738: 2733: 2729: 2728: 2727: 2726: 2723: 2719: 2715: 2711: 2710: 2709: 2705: 2700: 2696: 2692: 2689: 2688: 2687: 2683: 2679: 2674: 2673: 2672: 2671: 2667: 2662: 2653: 2651: 2650: 2646: 2642: 2638: 2632: 2628: 2624: 2620: 2616: 2615: 2614: 2612: 2608: 2604: 2600: 2595: 2588: 2584: 2580: 2576: 2575: 2574: 2571: 2564: 2552: 2548: 2544: 2539: 2538: 2537: 2536: 2535: 2534: 2533: 2532: 2531: 2530: 2519: 2515: 2511: 2507: 2503: 2499: 2494: 2493:significantly 2490: 2489: 2488: 2484: 2480: 2475: 2474: 2473: 2472: 2471: 2470: 2469: 2468: 2461: 2457: 2453: 2449: 2444: 2443: 2442: 2441: 2440: 2439: 2432: 2428: 2424: 2420: 2416: 2412: 2411: 2410: 2409: 2408: 2407: 2402: 2398: 2394: 2391: 2386: 2384: 2380: 2376: 2371: 2369: 2365: 2361: 2357: 2352: 2351: 2350: 2349: 2346: 2342: 2338: 2334: 2333: 2332: 2331: 2327: 2323: 2319: 2315: 2306: 2304: 2303: 2299: 2295: 2287: 2277: 2273: 2269: 2265: 2261: 2254: 2251: 2250: 2249: 2248: 2247: 2243: 2239: 2235: 2231: 2230: 2229: 2227: 2223: 2219: 2215: 2205: 2200: 2193: 2189: 2185: 2181: 2178: 2176: 2172: 2168: 2164: 2161: 2160: 2157: 2153: 2149: 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