439:), and for not contributing to a broad understanding of the Politboro. Perhaps the comparison to the U.S. Federal Government was not that wise, because the Wikileaks material is generally agreed upon to be valuable primary source material on U.S. foreign policy, but only because of the nature of the leaks and their source. We would definitely not base a whole article on German or Italian foreign policy based on U.S. diplomatic correspondence, because of how obviously skewed it would make the article. I see why PCPP makes the comparison, though; it's because the U.S. Federal Government article, no matter how poorly sourced, presents a very basic structure with good historical perspective, without dedicating a huge portion to recent polemics, even though there's no dearth of controversy about the U.S. Federal Government. Because of our demographics as an encyclopedia, we might have a harder time applying the same level-headedness to articles about the fearful and exotic Orient, but the relevant guidelines provide a clear imperative: the gossip must go.
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this article is probably due more to apathy and systemic bias than an airtight information blockade. I recognize that when many articles start out as stubby things, they disproportionally cover recent scandals, which are siphoned off as more content is added, which with any luck will also happen to this article. Understand, though, that this incident is really peripheral to the subject and the function of the
Politboro, and its long coverage is an unsightly sore that symbolizes editors' parochialism so long as it remains.
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important things that we DO know. In my opinion, idle speculation of a tangential nature is just that. The absence of more useful information does not elevate it to the point where is should be included in this article (but I haven't actually deleted it. I have deleted some items that were probably inserted 8-9 years ago when they were fresh and relevant.)
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American embassy officials. There seems to be the misconception that these "leaks" are coming from the countries concerned, when in fact, they are leaked correspondence between
American embassies and home base. As such, they reflect the biases, the prejudices, and the gullibility of American officials abroad.
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I was referring to
Arilang's comparison of "these people" to his portrayal of Ferdinand Marcos as corrupt, despotic, and nepotistic. But if you can find solid evidentiary material on which the cable allegations may stand (and not just about Aurora, which is a speck in the broad accusations), it would
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As
Philippine president and strongman, his greatest achievement was in the fields of infrastructure development and international diplomacy. However, his administration was marred by massive authoritarian corruption, despotism, nepotism, political repression, and human rights violations. He benefited
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stories such as the Google break-in. Obviously, computer crimes are not a major or official function of the
Politboro, and it hasn't even been established for sure that the Politboro had a part in the incident(s). It has definitely not risen to the level of "controversy" because there are no facts to
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I think the comment about Deng undermining CCP power and overriding the majority of the PSC should be erased- according to the
Tiananmen Papers, the vote was split evenly and 1 member (Qiao Shi) abstained. Moreover, there is no material evidence at all that the party is or was weaker because of 1989.
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The table under "Current members (in order)" gives Xi
Jinping's birthplace as Fuping, Shaanxi. This is his father's birthplace, and thus considered Xi Jinping's home town, but it is not his own birthplace. He was born in Beijing where his father was serving in the central government. I would correct
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In
December, Securities Market Weekly, a publication that claims a circulation of more than 5 million copies, ran into trouble with Chinese censorship for attacking the role of Li Xiaopeng, Li Peng's younger son, who is chairman of the nation's largest independent electricity producer, Huaneng Power
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we really know about the
Politburo? Names of officials? That's about it. It may be the case that the Chinese government has hired operatives to infiltrate Knowledge, for the purpose of whitewashing computer hacking, or covering up wrongdoing. But what Knowledge is all about is -- exposing the truth.
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I respectfully disagree with your thinking. The
Wikileaks material is not mere "gossip" but revelations which are generally kept away from the general public. It reflects what US diplomats really think -- they think the Politburo is behind a coordinated campaign of computer sabotage. And that's what
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Add another vote for not including this. Its not that it is unimportant, but in the context of the PSC it is of trivial importance. Part of the difficulty here is that we know so very little about the actual activities of the PSC, that the idle leaked speculation of a US diplomat is one of the most
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The main problem with the controversies section is that the controversies are simply not relevant to the page. They are allegations against individual members of the Politburo, and should be included in articles on individual members, not here. This article should focus on the role of the Politburo
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The title of this article:Politburo Standing Committee of the Communist Party of China, OK, we all know that this committee is CHINA, because the top Chinese leaders are the committee members. But these people are Human Beings, just like any other mortals, they have ambition, greed, so occasionary,
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We know a lot more about the Politboro than the names as you say, and there are much better sources out there that can paint a more complete picture of the Politboro, and Knowledge has satisfactory articles on many secret societies and opaque new religious movements. The relative lack of content in
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It is absolutely up to us as contributors to judge whether material is speculation or fact. Good newspapers do some of it for us, telling us that for example the information about Wen Jiabao's wife's supposed influence in the diamond industry comes from an anonymous "Chinese source" that reports to
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I do not know if it is necessary and unbiased to include "is a committee whose membership varies between 5 and 9 people, usually men". To be fair, the committee indeed have had only male members. Yet I don't see "usually men" in the description of US presidency, which have had more members in its
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Since 1956, the PBSC has had an average of 6.9 members, so going back from 9 to 7 (assumption) isn’t unusual. The average share of newcomers at each Party Congress (not including interim appointments) is 54.8%, with the highest (88.9%) in 2002 and the lowest (28.6%) in 1997. Hu Jintao has been
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or wild speculation. And to devote two or three lines about this subject in an article about the Politburo -- which is essentially a secret hidden-from-view government -- I think is perfectly reasonable. To remove this material, in my view, is censorship. What else
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The Politburo meets in Huairentang Hall in the Zhongnanhai compound of Beijing. The area is not open to the general public. I do not think that Politburo members are very amiable to the idea of impromptu photo-ops with anyone. Approach them in public at your own
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The Chinese abbreviation in the summery (“abbreviated simplified Chinese: 政治局常委”) is not precise. The word used actually refers to members of the committee, not the committee itself. Sources(in Chinese) includes politics.people.com.cn/GB/1024/9636072.html,
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article makes much sense here -- I think neither the US nor the China article is well sourced, and both articles could use huge improvement, and I recommend adding Wikileaks material to the US govt article too, particularly regarding foreign policy
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I am thinking about visiting China in the future and I was wondering where the Committee holds its meetings. Is this building accessible to the public? Is it possible to meet Politburo members, perhaps to get a photo opportunity with them?
335:(This comment pasted from my talk page to here by me, Tomwsulcer:) Hi, I'm not suggesting for the complete removal of the Wikileaks material, but I believe that it would be better placed on other articles regarding Chinese hacking such as
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have printed the material, making it highly notable, and specifically mentioning the Chinese Politburo as orchestrating a worldwide campaign of computer sabotage, hacking into computers and systems of private companies such as
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For example in Finland the health minister Anna-Kaisa Pekonen only has a "Certified Nursing Assistant (CNA)" education. I would suspect the health minister of China (if they have such a minister) has a much higher education?
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as reported by prominent newspapers; and one of the things the Politburo does (apparently, according to NY Times, etc) is hack into computers worldwide. I think this material belongs here as well as other places such as
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Although corruption charges have surrounded the Li family for years, this time the Communist Party leadership proved particularly sensitive to allegations from the public about high-profile malfeasance and nepotism.
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If the purpose of the article is to "introduce the functions of the PRC Politboro", then it is the function of newspapers rather than encyclopedias to dedicate such a large chunk of the article to such prurient and
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Generally I think the Wikileaks material is important, and it's not for us as contributors to judge whether it deserves to be treated as merely "speculation" or as solid fact. Top well-respected sources such as the
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Zhang Beili(wife of Wen Jiabao) Senior Gemmologist Certificated Gemmologist of China Certificated Gemmologist of Gemmological Association of Great Britain Jewellry Appraiser of Appraiser Society of America
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The most damaged is probably Li Peng, the conservative head of Parliament, who has close ties to the State Power Company. Two of his children have made fortunes as executives in the industry.
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we should say: that US diplomats believe the Politburo is behind a campaign of computer hacking. That there's evidence from other sources, and an article devoted to this whole subject, namely
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news.xinhuanet.com/newscenter/2008-05/13/content_8155498.htm, in which the committee is correctly referred in its Chinese abbreviation("政治局常委会"). I have already made the minor correction.
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The former head of the Water Resources Ministry, who resigned last year after it was learned he had used government money to build an office building here, was also a protégé of Mr. Li.
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but legitimate public information. Public officials need to be held accountable for what they do. If they organize worldwide campaigns of computer hacking, then this should be exposed.--
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I suspect that they usually have a higher university education than most leaders in European union countries, but Knowledge didn't much help finding out do I remember correctly.
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as well as governments such as the US government. If the purpose of this article is to "introduce the functions of the PRC Politburo", clearly readers would want to know what it
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history then the communist committee. I also cannot see the point of adding some unnecessary exoneration of this sort randomly in the pages related to communist countries.
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Just for fun, submit your predictions for membership on the 20th Politburo Standing Committee. Maximum 7 names. Competition closes Midnight GMT October 15, 2022.
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other pages with the previous naming scheme, but I do not know how to automate adding all of them en masse to this request. Hence could someone please help out -
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343:. I believe the purpose of the article is to introduce the functions of the PRC Politburo based on established facts, not speculation; the article on the
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article has already caused a mess. People doing mass renames of references across articles have made an absolute mess on multiple articles, visible at
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Now that the full historical list of PSC members has been added, does anyone feel qualified enough to add some comments about the "Four Generations"?
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I've removed the section for now, but I would not oppose that another user move it into articles on individual Politburo members, where it belongs.--
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553:. I don't think it's the whole story, but it deserves some coverage -- one or two lines. But you're trying to remove them, even when the article is
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The current photo doesn't show all 9 PSC members. Do you have the one where they were first introduced at the party congress in November? --
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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Xi has recently been elected in Guangxi, so probably change it? Also, how do I edit it if I were to edit the thing myself? (
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https://web.archive.org/web/20130210034750/http://www.chinafile.com/china%E2%80%99s-next-leaders-guide-what%E2%80%99s-stake
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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for example, on even tangentially related party departments. If the rest are to be renamed, please do it more carefully.
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related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant
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To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant
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736:. It's an encyclopedia. We base our stuff on secondary sources like the NY Times, Washington Post, etc.--
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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Also, the cyberwarfare involvement, which should belong, has been moved to a more appropriate section.--
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elected to the PBSC four times, the largest number of times since Mao Zedong and Zhou Enlai (5 each).
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Following the comments above, I do think that it should be renamed, but caution should be exercised.
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Making slanderous accusations against living human beings on Knowledge based on rumors and gossip,
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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My guess: Xi Jinping, Zhao Leji, Wang Huning, Ding Xuexiang, Hu Chunhua, Cai Qi, Guo Shengkun.
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per above arguments. Seems like a better fit, in English we always refer to them as the CCP.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/28/world/details-of-corruption-emerge-in-china.html?ref=lipeng
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Director of National Gems and Jewelry Technology-Administrative Centre of MLR of P. R. China-
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Details of Corruption Emerge in China By ELISABETH ROSENTHAL Published: January 28, 2001
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the practice of the party is to cover up for its top leaders for the sake of stability.
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3. President of Gemstone Identifying Special Committee, Geological Association of China
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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When newspapers print material to expose the misdeeds of public officials, it isn't
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4. Vice Director of Identification Committee of Certificated Gemmologist of China
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You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —
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http://www.chinafile.com/china%E2%80%99s-next-leaders-guide-what%E2%80%99s-stake
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Participate in the deletion discussions at the nomination pages linked above. —
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as a governing body, and not on the members currently part of it. For example,
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article, even though there were allegations that the previous Vice President,
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then you may need to upload it to Knowledge (Commons does not allow fair use)
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then you may need to upload it to Knowledge (Commons does not allow fair use)
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5. Chinese Representative of International Colored Gemstone Association (ICA)
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This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image
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This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image
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And this is a well-sourced relevant story which pertains to this topic.--
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But the official doubted that they would be publicly disgraced, because
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from a large personality cult in the Philippines during his regime.
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as you suggest. Last, I don't see how comparing this article to the
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2. Vice President of Gemstone Identifying Special Committee of GAC
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Solid evidentiary evidence? This isn't a court of law. This isn't
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Talk:Politburo Standing Committee of the Communist Party of China
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On a sidenote, the implementation of the original rename on the
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Wikilinks documents regarding the Politburo and computer hacking
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this but it's some sort of a template and I can't work out how.
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Li Zhanshu is Chairman of the NPC SC, not "Party Secretary."
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they have their cronies to make some money along the way like
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Politburo Standing Committee of the Communist Party of China
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Politburo Standing Committee of the Communist Party of China
549:) 04:19, 6 January 2011 (UTC) Further, I disagree that it's
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If we know so much about the Politburo, why is this article
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Politburo Standing Committee of the Chinese Communist Party
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1. Vice President of Gemological Association of China (GAC)
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Talk:Chinese_Communist_Party#Requested_move_16_July_2020
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The princelings and the protesters By Antoaneta Bezlova
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there should be consistency throughout. There are over
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Any information on this would be greatly appreciated.
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7. Fellow of Gemmological Association of Great Britain
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Where does the PRC Politburo Standing Committee meet?
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File:Li Keqiang Macau2011 .jpg Nominated for Deletion
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File:Xi Jinping Macau 2009.jpg Nominated for Deletion
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a former official said, adding that the scandals had
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Publicity Department of the Communist Party of China
217:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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Publicity Department of the Chinese Communist Party
1323:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
1123:If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no
1041:If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no
1903:C-Class China-related articles of High-importance
957:further clipped the wings of Li and his family.
1774:Participate in the deletion discussion at the
1396:Participate in the deletion discussion at the
1309:This message was posted before February 2018.
1470:What is the education of the current members?
1179:Xi Jinping birthplace is Beijing, NOT Shaanxi
863:Director of National Gemstone Training Center
347:does not contain Wikileaks material at all.--
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860:Director of Beijing Gemstone Testing Station
857:Director of National Gemstone Testing Center
1133:image page (File:Li Keqiang Macau2011 .jpg)
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953:has been losing his protégés for some time,
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1918:High-importance socialism articles
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1749:The discussion above is closed.
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431:So remove the information as
325:02:44, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
309:02:44, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
225:and see a list of open tasks.
120:and see a list of open tasks.
1879:10:07, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
1496:Requested move 7 August 2020
1424:Zhao Leji official image.jpg
1377:20:36, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
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1159:Interesting perspective (OR)
1101:Deletion requests March 2012
1019:Deletion requests March 2012
869:Vice president of CHINA GEMS
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698:greatly help your argument.
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1568:– As per the discussion at
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775:, had links to the company.
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1276:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
588:did, there is no big deal.
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1321:regular verification
1311:After February 2018
850:Current Position:
835:Rumors and gossips?
555:really really short
1871:Community Tech bot
1780:Community Tech bot
1694:of the main page.
1431:Community Tech bot
1402:Community Tech bot
1365:InternetArchiveBot
1316:InternetArchiveBot
1125:fair use rationale
1043:fair use rationale
873:Social Pluralism:
237:socialism articles
45:content assessment
1839:Li Xi en 2022.png
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1669:for consistency.
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1023:What should I do?
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101:China portal
51:WikiProjects
1515:move review
1226:Thank you.
1110:Don't panic
1028:Don't panic
773:Dick Cheney
765:Halliburton
635:no big deal
437:speculation
1887:Categories
1863:discussion
1853:discussion
1843:discussion
1633:Xi Jinping
1615:Rreagan007
1592:Relisting.
1372:Report bug
738:Tomwsulcer
669:Tomwsulcer
559:Tomwsulcer
551:peripheral
543:Tomwsulcer
482:Tomwsulcer
390:Tomwsulcer
317:95139ieaci
301:95139ieaci
1355:this tool
1348:this tool
980:Arilang
595:Arilang
419:recentist
388:issues.--
228:Socialism
219:socialism
175:Socialism
1817:DOR (HK)
1452:unsigned
1361:Cheers.—
1245:contribs
1233:unsigned
1166:DOR (HK)
1118:non-free
1036:non-free
539:so short
341:WP:UNDUE
287:Shannonr
274:Untitled
1769:赵乐际.jpg
1723:urelius
1709:Support
1684:Support
1667:Support
1650:Support
1607:Support
1583:HAMPION
1285:my edit
951:Mr. Li
700:Quigley
639:Quigley
541:?????--
509:Quigley
441:Quigley
255:on the
150:on the
41:C-class
1696:Amigao
1609:to be
1597:(talk)
1528:(talk)
1524:moved.
1483:ee1518
1229:- RR
472:gossip
468:Google
372:Google
327:Titan
311:Titan
47:scale.
1735:Talk!
1690:with
1256:risk.
1199:Done.
433:undue
280:Jiang
123:China
114:China
70:China
1875:talk
1821:talk
1799:talk
1784:talk
1700:talk
1686:per
1675:talk
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804:talk
798:SGCM
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780:SGCM
742:talk
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673:talk
643:talk
563:talk
547:talk
513:talk
486:talk
445:talk
394:talk
376:does
353:talk
349:PCPP
321:talk
305:talk
247:High
142:High
1778:. —
1574:100
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1329:RfC
1299:to
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