864:– There is a very rich European history connected to the name Popran. Furthermore, there is also a substantial amount of indigenous history in this area and it is highly probable that the connection to this history will be made by those searching for it through the "Popran" name rather than through "Glenworth. The link with "Popran National Park" is a natural connection- although please note that the Park occupies the higher ground above the Popran. In the historical record there is virtually no record of the Glenworth name but a very large amount on Popran. The Kelly family connection is a fascinating record of early convict life and nearly always is linked with "Popran" rather than "Glenworth". In addition there is a proven connection between Henry Kendall through the poet Philip J Holdsworth- and the connection occurs through the use of Popran viz: Holdsworth has a poem "In the Valley of the Popran". Furthermore there is a horse riding /camping organization where the Kelly's lived in the upper reaches of Glenworth Valley/Popran and I would suggest that this commercial operation, however meritorious, should not take precedence over the rich natural and historical heritage of the designation Popran. In the printed media (as an example please note in The publication "The Ferry, The Branch and the Creek: Aspects of Hawkesbury History, Wisemans Ferry 1988" the designation Popran Creek is clearly the preferred local designation. I would strongly defend the foregrounding of the term "Popran" over "Glenworth" and the renaming as requested of "Glenworth Valley" to "Popran Creek" has considerable merit. Alternatively, if Popran Creek cannot be used as a stand-alone Wiki page, may I suggest that we replace the two "Glenworth Valley" sites with one, and subsume the Glenworth Valley (suburb page) into the Glenworth Valley (Valley page) Do not sign this.
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Popran. In the historical record there is virtually no record of the
Glenworth name but a very large amount on Popran. The Kelly connection is a fascinating record of early convict life. In addition there is a proven connection between Henry Kendall through the poet Philip J Holdsworth- and the connection occurs through the use of Popran viz: Holdsworth has a poem "In the Valley of the Popran".
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534:. Ordinarily, when there's already something at the target location, even a redirect, some case has to be made as to why the article to be moved is primary over the other. That seems to be lacking here. Page views show the valley and the suburb similarly placed too. But since there's no major opposition, and the suburb is apparently tiny (10 people), I'll go ahead and move it. —
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Thanks very much
Shiftchange for your work on the Popran Valley page. Much appreciated. Looks so much better. There is a lot more research that can be done one this page. You may be interested to know of the connection the Kelly family of the valley have with the Norco butter people of northern NSW-
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Ad lsm here. I am the original editor of this page and have been aware that there was a mistake in naming the page "Popran Valley" as against "Glenworth Valley". Happy to change it/ add content to the
Glenworth Valley page. However, there is a very rich (European) history connected to the name
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Catherine Smith. Hi
Catherine. How did you add your horse riding photo? That would be so good to have on the site. Do you want to email it to me and I'll have a go at putting it on. UA. (that's code.. get it UA?) Hey Scott add some more to the site but you have to sign up first to edit/add.
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redirects to the suburb article. That's just one of a series of errors that need to be corrected. As for the rest, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. "Popran Creek valley" doesn't exist. The official name is
Glenworth Valley, hence the move request. Both
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Probably need to add to the Popran Valley page mention of the Kelly and Toomey families. Bruce Smith owned the property which was the old Post Office from around 1947-1967. There are still family members around who could be contacted for information on details.
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There is a horse riding /camping organization where the Kelly's lived and I would suggest that it would be sad if that were to take precedence over the rich natural and historical heritage that Popran has.
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within the valley. The editor who created this article has obviously created it at the wrong name, possibly based on unofficial, local naming. I really don't understand why you contested this move. --
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https://web.archive.org/20120325095043/http://www.gosford.nsw.gov.au/library/local_history/Tourist%20Guides/documents/here-is-spencer-on-the-hawkesbury-circa-1952.pdf
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Sorry :: I know nothing about the Popran / Glenworth area. I was in
Australia for 18 nights in June/July 1984, to see and photograph the far south stars (
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Les Smith you should add your comments here. I'm not sure if real people actually get to read this... it might just be a computer that edits.
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included? Google Books has no good results for Popran Valley. We need to find a reliable source which defines the valley's boundaries. -
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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one of the sons was a founding director and member of the NSW parliament at the turn of the century. thanks again, adlsm
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