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circumstances we would not use sources that are clearly affiliated to one "side" or the other of an argument. For example. just because person A is killed in violent circumstances does not mean that they were killed because of their ethnicity or whatever. They may equally have been killed as a consequence of a territorial dispute, a familial difference of opinion (eg: marriage issues), a dispute between criminal gangs, someone who they owed money to, etc. We simply cannot make sense of this ourselves and I worry greatly that using sources with an agenda, as surely the ones I mention must have, is not conducive to what
Knowledge is about. As many contributors to this article will already know, WP is an imperfect environment ... but that does not mean that this or any other article should be written as an exception to that imperfect environment. News sources such as CNN and the BBC are surely much better, and better still would be academic studies if such things exist for what appears from this article to be a quite recent development.
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Without actually reaching for a dictionary, the term "genocide" seems to me to imply a systematic, organised campaign to murder all members of an ethnic group in a given place. From the existing sources in the article, those that are authoritative and neutral (such as
Amnesty International and Human
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There is a PDF document available via the source. That document mentions Hazara twice and those mentions refer to specific instances of anti-Hazara violence. Nowhere in it can I spot the claim that was made in our statement. Usually I would tag it with a {{Pn}} template but in this instance, rather
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and you might find it instructive to review what happened in that instance. Your agenda is pretty clear and has been noted at ANI, your contrary accusations of bias are unfounded and your understanding of policy etc seems to demonstrate a tendency to run before you can walk. Please self-revert and
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Imran is a world renowned person alright. As a cricketer, and as a prominent
Pakistani leader. His cricketing fame is of no consequence here, but his being an important Pakistani leader does provide weight to his views. It is not necessary that he should be named there. I can add more sources for
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The majority of the articles content does not even discuss
Hazaras it bangs on about ISI and the Pakistani military the sources used to support these pov claims are basically saying the opposite or not even mentioning any connection this article is pure pov I will add a tag until its reviewed
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Rights Watch) seem not to use the term in relation to the
Hazaras in Quetta. While there is certainly persecution and some of the killings have involved tens of people, I can see nothing to justify us using such as emotive word as "genocide" nor to categorise this article in that category. -
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Are we really supposed to be happy using sources such as hazara.net and hazara news? I am not disputing that there is persecution (I really do not know, but it sounds about right for the extensive social bigotry that is found in
Pakistan and India - nutters, most of them) but under normal
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p51-52 details the attacks on police cadets and the killings at the Asna-Ul-Asharia mosque. Also p38 "Amnesty
International reports, most refugees are returning from Iran and Pakistan because they have no viable alternative protection in those countries." I will give you more later.
358:- you think that you know what you are talking about but are displaying a rather imperfect understanding. That happens, no problem, but you are persisting in it despite advice to the contrary from numerous other people. In fact, you are displaying tendencies similar to
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However, the genocide soon became targeted against the
Hazaras. Pashtun guides were used to target Hazara households, whose occupants were then massacred;women were raped,and thousands were taken to the Mazar jail, locked into containers and left to
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I mostly welcome inclusion of multiple opinions. But when "genocide" is being discussed in an article, mentioning it in the lead is completely necessary. Can add more sources for "genocide" of
Hazaras. Stop whitewashing and don't edit war. See
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Furthermore the introduction contained a whole paragraph with no sources stating some pretty hefty stuff without a single source. I have removed the source less drivel please re add if you manage to find a source for these huge claims.
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than go through my usually vain wait for someone to provide the necessary page info, I've removed it because the claim is potentially quite outrageous. If someone can substantiate it then, obviously, the statement can be reinstated. -
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Hi
Darkness Shines. I am enthused by your suggestion to use better sources. I fully agree that better sources should be used whenever available/found. Do the above sources relate to persecution in Pakistan/Quetta, or in Afghanistan
389:@OrangesRyellow Had Imran been a world renowned Human rights activist, that may be fine in the lead, but he is not and by mentioning his opinion in the lead, we are giving undue importance to his comment. --
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is a high-profile, contentious national politician. (He was also a great cricketer, and I enjoyed watching him in that role immensely). Stating his opinion regarding genocide in the
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reported in January 2012 that the Pakistan army had created a militant organization to kill intellectuals, activists and Hazaras in Balochistan.
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478:) 10:25, 10 November 2012 (UTC) Of course I shall try to investigate these sources on my own too, depending on if I can find access to them...
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I totally agree with you. I might have added couple of those links myself but later, I though it would not sound reliable if the refs are
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This is Knowledge, and we should not be using advocacy groups etc as sources for what is often speculative content/opinion. -
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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p196 onwards. Abdullah Amin's speech in 1979 should be mentioned "tokhm-i Hazara dar Afghanistan na-memanad"
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Far too many lists here no need for it and its against wiki policy this is not an encyclopedia.
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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and, preferably, checking out a few articles in this general sphere that have attained at least
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then we should be showing only the latter because it is a subcategory of the former. -
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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Please can we try not to overcategorise in this article. If, for example, we have
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websites. Thanks for reminding and cleaning the mess. Really appreciated.
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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Use decent sources. Ethnic cleansing by the Taliban. You can also use
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No. You are wrong in terms of policy. As with stuff elsewhere - eg:
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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continue this discussion, after conducting a full read-through of
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Future Seekers: Refugees and Irregular Migration in Australia
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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http://www.aph.org.au/files/articles/hazarasPersecution.htm
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I have just added archive links to one external link on
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Modern Afghanistan: A History of Struggle and Survival
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898:Unknown-importance Balochistan, Pakistan articles
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449:p92 More ethnic cleansing.
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