Talk:Philip II of Macedon/Archive 1

1031:"The Temenidae in Macedon are an invention of the Macedonians themselves, intended in part to give credence to Alexander I's claims of Hellenic ancestry, attached to and modifying some half-buried progenitor stories that had for a long time existed among the Macedonians concerning their own origins. The revised version was transmitted without criticism or comment by Herodotus. Thucydides (2-99.3; 5.80.2) acquired the Argive lineage tale from Herodotus, or from Macedonian-influenced sources, and transmitted it. His is not an independent version. What emerged in the fifth century is a Macedonian-inspired tale of Argive origins for the Argead house, an account that can probably be traced to its source, Alexander I. The Temenidae must disappear from history, making superfluous all discussion of them as historical figures." (Borza - In the Shadow of Olympus)"Why is it that no Spartan or Athenian or Argive felt constrained to prove to the others that he and his family were Helenes? But Macedonian kings seem hard put to argue in behalf of their Hellenic ancestry in the fifth century B.C., and that circumstance is telling. Even if one were to accept that all the Herodotian stories about Alexander were true, why did the Greeks, who normally were knowledgeable about matters of ethnic kinship, not already know that the Macedonian monarchy was Greek? But--following Herodotus--the stade- race competitors at Olympia thought the Macedonian was a foreigner (Hdt. 5.22: barbaros) Second, for his effort on behalf of the Greek cause against the Persians Alexander is known as "Philhellene". Now this is kind of odd to call a Greek a "friend of the Greeks" 852:"Hesiod would not have recorded this relationship, unless he had believed, probably in the 7th century, that the Macedones were a Greek-speaking people. The next evidence comes from Persia. At the turn of the 6th century the Persians described the tribute- paying peoples of their province in Europe, and one of them was the ‘yauna takabara’, which meant 'Greeks wearing the hat'. There were Greeks in Greek city-states here and there in the province, but they were of various origins and not distinguished by a common hat. However, the Macedonians wore a distinctive hat, the kausia. We conclude that the Persians believed the Macedonians to be speakers of Greek. Finally, in the latter part of the 5th century a Greek historian, Hellanicus, visited Macedonia and modified Hesiodus genealogy by making Macedon not a cousin, but a son of Aeolus, thus bringing Macedon and his descendants firmly into the Aeolic branch of the Greek-speaking family. Hesiod, Persia, and Hellanicus had no motive for making a false statement about the language of the Macedonians, who were then an obscure and not a powerful people. Their independent testimonies should be accepted as conclusive." ( 496:

all means. Language is ever so changing and never remains the same. To compare ancient greek language to modern greek, you can see there are differences. Language is only one variable of many that defines a culture. If you want to prove the greekness of the ancient macedonians with ancient greek fragments found in the region, you must be an expert on cultures. Brazillians speak Portuguese, the rest of the majority of South America speaks Spanish. Haiti speaks French. Some countries in Africa speak French or Spanish. Most of Eastern Europe speaks a slavic langueses, even though extict languages once existed there. Even try to prove the greekness of a third generation greek living in Canada, Australia or the USA who now doesnt know the greek langauge but only knows how to speak English and write English. Does that make the person a English by origin because of their langauge? Language alone does not define a ethnicity and King Phillip should not be listed as being Greek when there isn't enough evidence.

2680:

indeed - by you. The consensus needs to be looked at again. Wiki is an evolving project, it does not stop dead because you need or want it to. You stating that the kingdom was a mix of Greek and non Greek elements does not hold. The elements that were Greek - language, religion and indeed ancestry - outweigh - the non Greek elements, whatever you believe they may be (please state). The kingdom was Greek. The leaders stated they were Hellenes - the people spoke a Greek dialect and both worshiped Greek Gods and partook in the Olympic games. This needs to be addressed. Stating the kingdom was not 'Greek' and on the outside of the Greek world misleads the reader.

1149:

are so many questioning the authenticity of the articles? Philip II was king of Macedon, he was a Macedonian not a Greek. The Greeks called the Macedonians barbarians just like what they called all others who did not speak greek. You do not consider a group of people who speaks the same language and who are of the same ethnicity of you as barbaric. So by the Greeks labeling the Macedonians as barbarians shows right there that they were not greek and did not speak greek or at least like the last poster suggests only spoke it as a second language as to communicate with others.

2480: 800:

behind in southern Macedonia. Perhaps in the seventh century one of these, the 'Macedones', occupied Aegae and expanded into the coastal plain of Lower Macedonia, which became the kingdom of 'Macedon'; their descendants were the Macedonians proper of the classical period, and they worshipped Greek gods, especially Zeus and Heracles. The other Greek tribes became intermingled in Upper Macedonia with Illyrians, Paeonians, and Thracians, and the Thracians especially had their own orgiastic religions, such as that portrayed in the Bacchae."

994:

rich array of grave goods. Evidence of trauma supposedly in the orbital bones of the skull has been thought to correspond to an eye injury that King Philip II is historically known to have suffered. However, reexamination of the orbital morphology showed no evidence of such pathology. Therefore, the skeleton does not belong to Philip II. New skeletal evidence shows that the skeleton belongs to King Philip III Arrhidaeus. In this case, the tomb may well contain some of the paraphernalia of Alexander the Great."

1097:

people. There isn’t enough archaeological findings to conclude that their native language was a Greek dialect. One can only assume as a theory, but that’s all it is. Until there is enough proof of the common peoples language then don’t claim it. What your saying has no physical truth to back it up. The most correct way of dealing with the situation of the native language of the Ancient Macedonians is to call it “Ancient Macedonian” with its origins to be unknown.

2009:

that I want to include. Please, don't be ridicilious and find some reliable publications about Philip's origin so we can publish them all. If you want to prevent all my additions from passing, you are required to prove that at least the opposite of mine additions is the majority view and then to call it "undue weight", you can't just excuse with the unjustified accusations for "POV pushing". I have found three Cambridge University sources so far, what have you?

2921:

of cites. Those are completely different from the factual accuracy dispute tag. WP editors don't just random tag articles with any tags just to inform the user that there is something wrong with the article. We are supposed to use tags that specifically convey to the user what exactly is wrong with that article or section. None of the tags are redundant or unnecessary. You may need to learn more about tagging and the differences between the tags. -

31: 2404:! As explained in another article, the "Greekness" of Macedonians is unquestionable after the reign of Alexander and certainly by the end of the Hellenistic period and beginning of the Roman era. The problem here is certain Greek city-states to the south considering the Macedonians and Epirotes to be backwards cousins influenced by neighboring Thracian/Illyrian barbarians and belonging to a bygone Homeric age of absolute monarchism. 1025:

validility of the page. The first reference in in contridiction to what other scholars say about the ancient Macedonians. The most appropriate way of dealing with the issue is to refer to the macedonians antiquity as complex and needs further examination. An appropriate way of dealing with the issue is to state that the ancient Macedonians ethnicity in unknown rather to claim simply Ancient Greek.

76: 2329:

were just Macedonians and not Greeks. That madness has to stop. Also, I wrote in the infobox that he was strategos autokrator of Greece. Some members are trying to prove that he was not. But the ancient Greek text is quite clear: Ελλήνων ελομένων αυτὸν """στρατηγὸν αυτοκράτορα της Ελλάδος""" μεγάλας παρασκευὰς εποιετο πρὸς τὴν επὶ τοὺς Πέρσας στρατείαν... Please give any advise. Thank you.

2432: 2555:. There are others, but these are the ones I specifically remember. All of these have sections on their Talk Pages where a consensus was reached that there would be no overt labeling of Ancient Macedonia(ns) as "Greek", but that the article would make clear the complex and intimate relationship between the culture of the Greek city-states and the Macedonian kingdom. -- 2875:

it's article. For all I know the entire section could be total BS. There is zero point of reference for me to me consider which statements are possibly factually correct or not. So if you're asking me what I am disputing in that section, then I would say that (considering its near zero referencing) I am disputing the factual accuracy of the entire section. -

2764:

that labeling the ancient kingdom "Greek" is simplistic and ignores the evolving history of the relationship over time. QuaestorGaius shows up at these articles one at a time, pretends that he is ignorant of the history of discussion at each of these other articles, fails to get his way, and then moves on. There is no need to humor him further. --

2400:

Corinth (literally linked twice in the same sentence, smh). I also explained and placed "Greece" and "Greek" where it was appropriate but not in the first sentence where it is more controversial due to the ongoing debate about whether the Macedonians were considered true Greeks by other Greeks...just like their firebrand enemies tell us, namely

2791:"Lots of chunks of text are not given any citations. The citations that are there for other statements do not seem to support the uncited statements. I have added several citation needed tags. And I have also added a factual accuracy disputed tag to the top because this article has several strong statements that are uncited." - 2935:

What specific statements are you disputing? The point of the tag is the "disputed" statements, which is supposed to be a dispute between people. Tags are not meant to be "badges of shame", and so if you have a problem with certain unsourced statements, then just remove them. If someone restores them,

2874:

I'm not really an expert on Philip II so I wouldn't know which statements are feasible or not, but as a WP user when I come upon that and see that the section is totally devoid of references, I have no idea which statements to believe or not. Being an expert on the subject is not a prereq for editing

2506:

There was no country or empire known as "Greece" during the life of Philip II. Therefore, his country of birth was Macedon. It was culturally a mix of Greek and non-Greek elements, but there was no political entity known as "Greece". Therefore, "Greece" should not appear in the infobox as if there

1588:

is the claim of the leading sentence of their article here, but there are some sources indicating their Slavic origin. I suggest phrasing the sentence for Philip II that way "according to some historians he is not purely Greek" or "his precise origins are unknown", or "some historians doubt his Greek

1096:

Yes the royalty of the ancient Macedonians spoke probably Attica Greek for administration purposes which they learnt to communicate with the rest of the world. But where is your proof that the native language spoken for the ancient Macedonians was Doric, for both the royalty of Macedonians and common

712:

I ask you again! Have you read the sources properly? Have you read what have I said in my previous post? Britannica explicitly says that Pericles was an Athenian! So what? Athenians were Athenians and Macedonians were Macedonians and Spartans were Spartans! Look at the videos that Britannica provides

2954:

then you would see that you're wrong. There is nothing on that page that says anything about there being a dispute between two people. The fact is that the info in the "Assassination" section has existed in this article for a long time, and the vast majority of it is uncited. If I were to remove all

2920:

say "This specific info in the section is in dispute". Also, the tag is not at all redundant. The tags at the top of the page are totally different from the factual accuracy dispute tag in the "Assassination" section. The top tags are about the article's insufficient inline citations, tone, and lack

2679:

If you actually bother to go back to how the consensus was created, I was there. If you actually read the lead, you will see it is garbled and does not reflect the reality of the situation at the time - rather - it tends to aplogise for modern geopolitics. The consensus has been carefully maintained

2640:

Seems strange the word 'Greek' is absent from his description. Macedonia was a Greek Kingdom - speaking a Greek language, allowed to compete in the Olympic games - like other Greek states and worshipped the Greek Gods. Finding non-Greek aspects about Philip is very difficult. Seems bizarre his son -

1262:

The proponents of the Arridhaeus theory will never accept that they were wrong. Especially the Greek ones of them, belong to that category of leftist nation-haters who would argue against everything that exalts the national pride of the Greeks. Read Prof. Hatzopoulos who ridicules them. The case has

1077:

such kind of differences you can find them between Athenians and Spartans, so were does this leave you? Were the Athenians more Greek than Spartans (the Athenian propaganda insulted everyone as barbarians and more frequently their antagonists such the Spartans or Corinthians) or were the Macedonians

815:

Similarly, Chapter 2 of Book VI is called "Macedon Gains Control of the Greek States 346-336." It opens with an description of Isocrates' pamphlet called Philippus, urging Philip to unite the Greek states and lead them against Persia. Part 2 of Chapter 2 is called "The invasion of Greece." Part 3 is

799:

by NGL Hammond (OUP, 3rd edition, 1986), Chapter 1 of Book VI is entitled "Macedon wins a place among the Greek powers (359-346)". Ethnographically, it's fuzzy (from page 534): "In antiquity Macedonia contained peoples of various origins. At the end of the Bronze Age a residue of Greek tribes stayed

370:

Since you both agree that "There isn't any evidence to prove the language of the ancient macedonians was ancient greek. They cant find anything in macedonia other than artifacts that have attica greek. Clearly the ancient macedonians used attica greek as a second language. There needs to be proof of

3036:

article, which is not even about the kingdom, but about one of its kings, should also avoid using any of the modifiers about the kingdom in its lede sentence. I will strongly advice you to self revert, read the archived discussion (at least the conclusion of it) and then take part in the discussion

2969:

If your problem is uncited material, then the "Disputed" tag is the wrong one to use. There are better tags to use that ask for citations. "Disputed" is rather a backdoor way to say, "I don't like this" or "I don't agree with this". If you are neutral about the content, then use another tag. If

2842:

The disputed tag from the top of the article has been removed and that's fine. But a disputed tag has been added to the "Assassination" section. That section is horrible. Worst of all the sections. Lacks cites. Has one single primary source. All of the statements seem to be dubious and will be seen

2399:

Oh, wise spirit of Philip, second of his name, King of Macedon, reveal to us thy noble Argive lineage and rightful place in Hellas! Speak to us, great king, from beyond thy grave! Yada, yada. Lol. I just made a few small changes to the lead section, notably removing the duplicate link for League of

2328:

In my opinion, this article must be locked and the not authorized members must not be able to change any of the info. We have all ready many arguments about this article. Phillip was a Macedonian King from northern Greece. That's a common seance. Some people are trying to prove that the Macedonians

2008:

for you, then simply find other sources to fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources. It is not about who I like for my case, I personally don't like Philip, he's nothing more than an ancient savage, but there are significant viewpoints missing for him

1520:

Agree on both points. Actually, I'd consider taking the numeral "B'" out of the Greek too, because (unless I'm mistaken) it's only part of modern Greek usage (whereas the "Φίλλιπος ὁ Μακεδῶν" phrase appears to be ancient.) Or in fact even leave out "ὁ Μακεδῶν" too, because it was only an occasional

1493:

Dear audio file creator: thanks for your time and effort but kindly learn about the actual subjects you are cluttering with these things. The period pronunciation of the man's name was a breathy ancient Greek P, not a rolling Spanish F. That doesn't change whether you place the file on the translit

1248:

The article currently presents Musgrave as conclusively proving that Philip II was buried in Tomb II. It would be nice to have some independent sources confirming that the issue is now considered settled by the scientific community, and in particular that the proponents of the Arridhaeus theory now

1148:

Yeah i agree i don't understand why the Knowledge (XXG) articles for Alexander the Great and his father Philip II seem biased. There are so many others that request these pages to have alterations but they are just ignored. How can such information be publicized on such a well known site when there

646:

and Lycurgus was a Spartan (again no mention being Greek). Does the omission negates the fact that they were ancient Greeks? No because before Alexander the Great the ancient Greeks were a loose collection of 230 different tribes speaking 200 dialects scattered in many independent city-states! From

495:

There are ancient greek writings in macedonia and there is proof of ancient greek being spoken by the ancient macedonians. Languages are constantly evolving and changing. Some go extict while others remain alive. If you tried to prove the ethnicity of someone by solely language, it is simplistic by

2660:

wording in the first sentence that has been carefully maintained. If you actually read the article you can clearly see an accurate depiction of the complex relationship between the Greek city-states and the Macedonian kingdom both culturally and politically. Simply calling Philip and his kingdom

1331:

Philip the Macedonian and his son Alexander were greek kings honoring greek gods and bond with the greek culture. All the historical sources prooves it. The claim of modern FYRM "scholars" are redicolous and me and most of my country mates are ashamed from the act of recoqnising the name of modern

1081:

5) Anyhow please read the quotes within the context that are in the books. The current scholar position is that ancient Macedonians were part of the proto-Greek group but due to their geographic isolation from the rest of Greece and exposure to barbaric north they developed some different customs.

993:

contain a skeleton, but it probably was not Philip II but Philip III. The abstract says "The Eye Injury of King Philip II and the Skeletal Evidence from the Royal Tomb II at Vergina Antonis Bartsiokas The Royal Tomb II was discovered in Vergina, Greece, in 1977. It contained a male skeleton and a

343:

The greatest inovation Phillip II did was that he transformed his cavalry into an offenssive weapon borrowing horse tactics from many nations Thessaly and Samataria. he gave the infantry longer spears and ligter armour giving his men more stamina and also used ligt troops like archers and slingers

2763:

has evolved to leave the adjectives "Greek" and "Hellenic" out of the first sentence of the lead as a primary descriptor of "Macedonia". The articles are clear about the complex relationship between the ancient Greek city states and the Macedonian kingdom, but it has been consistently maintained

1568:

I agree with you. Sources assuming Philippos' Greek origin does exist too, and the edit looks like a sort of cherry picking to me. I am also concerned about the claim that no statue depicting him are survived. Should it means that every known statue of him are post-mortem ideal depictions? If so,

1068:

mean modern Greek. Hence, it is politically correct to say that were ancient Greek since they were speaking a doric dialect (one out of Greek dialects), worship the same Gods (Olympus ), having the same burial customs even in the 8th century BC, participate in (only-Greek) Olympic games, etc, etc

3019:

in a number of talk pages, including this one, see above. One of the difficulties is that the 'Greekness' of Macedon developed gradually during the period the kingdom existed, so that it is difficult, if not impossible, to define the kingdom with just one modifier. The main discussion about this

1901:

I don't claim or defend any position. I can't guess what are the precise origins of Philip II and I don't know if he was totally or partly Greek. I try to add more suggestions. Do as you say, find and add other sources claiming that he is totally Greek, or probably something else, I have nothing

1689:

Nevertheless these three Cambridge University sources are credible to dispute his origins. This is not simply "other stuff" or POV. The ethnic origins are usually mentioned at biographies without being regarded as undue and they should be mentioned here at one of the sections at least. Could you

1002:

There are about three scientific articles about the remains of his body. One in Archeologike Ephemeris 1981, a later one in the Journal of Hellenic Studies by Musgrave et ali. and in the American Journal of Archaeology later on. I'll look for the exact years later on. All are concerned with the

2515:

to see that the result of much discussion was to leave the words "Greek" out of the description of Philip's kingdom. Thus, adding the word "Greece" to the infobox after the word "Macedon" is both anachronistic (there was no country called "Greece" at the time) and against general consensus on

1126:

There isnt any evidence to prove the language of the ancient macedonians was ancient greek. They cant find anything in macedonia other than artifacts that have attica greek. Clearly the ancient macedonians used attica greek as a second language. There needs to be proof of this so called greek

1024:

There is not enough evidence to prove the antiquity of the ancient macedonians to be ancient Greek. To claim the ancient Macedonians to be anceint Greek without certainty is not politicaly correct. To claim something by choosing certain parts of history and neglecting others just questions the

522:

Argead dynasty, member of which is Phillip II, was an ancient greek royal family from Argos descedants of the temenids. Phillip along with the rest of his family members self determined as greek. Irrispectively of the ultimum descent of ancient macedonians, i.e. whether they were of pure greek

1806:

The one saying that he was "not of pure Greek race" certainly means that he was partially not Greek and that is what probably means the one saying he was not "true Greek". The other source simply claims "he was not Greek" which can not refer to partial descent. These are theories by excellent

1724:

I don't think his origins are disputed at all. The phrasing of the sources simply indicates that Philips's blood may have been mixed to some extent, which is obviously true about almost anyone. I don't think this type of phraseology or sourcing is adequate for inclusion. It's just opinion too

955:

Ancient Macedon was viewed as half-Greek or thereabouts. They spoke a language closely related to Greek, but had very different political institutions. What is not useful is the drive to obscure the difference between an ancient Macedonian and modern Macedonian Slavs. Philip was an ancient

2694:

You are still being simplistic in your worldview--"the Greek Empire from Crimea to Sicily". Even Greek authors disagreed over whether the Macedonians up to Philip's reign were Greek or barbarian. Such complexity doesn't fit well with your agenda to add the word "Greek" before anything that

1948:

Yes you are trying to push a particular POV. This "racial purity" business needs to stop, and it has no place in an article about an ancient figure. Readers interested in Philip's ancestry can click on the links for the articles on his parents. Your crude POV-pushing is not going to pass.

914:

familiar with Hammond, having read his books and sat exams on the subject. Oh well, make what you will of the quotations - they speak for themselves. Being neither Greek nor Macedonian (nor both at the same time), I have no axe to grind, nor any reason to respond to your rudeness in kind.

2889:

If you are not disputing any specific information, then a "citations needed" tag is the appropriate tag, and that is already covered in the page tags at the top of the article (along with additional inline tags that are largely unnecessary). I am going to remove the disputed tag for now. –

3032:. The rather strong consensus of that discussion was to avoid describing the kingdom as 'Greek' or 'Hellenic' in the lede sentence. The question is, of course, discussed thoroughly further down in that article, which is the right place for it. In my book, the obvious corollary is that 1223:

Fair enough. Both Alexander the Great and his father Philip and most of their ancestors from Aegead Royal house constantly referred to themselves as Greeks. There for should we not put back the fact that they were Greek kings, something that was removed last year by certain Editors?

2610:... et. al. Explain what about this is unclear. I am assuming that what historians know as far as basic biographical information about Philip of Macedon is correct. So I suppose his "sacking" could have occurred, but it it not clear if the Thracians sacked or invaded. Am I right? 879:"Philip was born a Greek of the most aristocratic, indeed of divine, descent... Philip was both a Greek and a Macedonian, even as Demosthenes was a Greek and an Athenian...The Macedonians over whom Philip was to rule were an outlying family member of the Greek-speaking peoples." ( 1999:

Athenean, your accusations for POV pushing are completely unjustified. You are trying to excuse the exclusion of what you do not like with ridicilious justifications. It is not about his parents and is not their article in which this would be due weight or about racial purity, a

735:

the experts whose sources are used in the WP text... Hmmm... Also about your comment that it is not mentioned Macedonians as a Greek tribe... well I guess neither the Athenians or Spartans were Greeks since I do not recall anywhere explicitly and directly state this. Enjoy Life!

1072:

4) Yes the ancient Macedonians were different from ancient Athenians or Spartans i.e. different dialect, strong aristocracy/monarchy, strong cavalry, drinking wine without water, not showing the same appreciation for the concept of polis as the rest of Greece showed etc...

88: 2581:

It is not sure whether the Thracians sacked or invaded in that year (359). Kg. Cotys I. had previously died and the three sons, Cerebleptes, Amadocus and Berisades, were struggling for hegemony, thus it is not very likely that they presented a direct threat to Philip.

612:

I'm not shouting Laveol, its simply to prove to you that you have a pre-determined view that "Macedonia and everything Macedonian is Greek" and will not accept anything that does not verify that view, including neutral and sources with highly positive reputation like

809:"The Macedonians themselves had little love for the Greeks who had settled in city-states on their coast and in Chalcidice, nor for the imperialistic powers, Sparta, Thebes, and Athens, which treated Macedonia as a pawn in the game of power politics." (pp 535, 536) 540:. If you press historia you get to the first page and on the first line you read "LA DINASTIA HISPÁNICA DE BORBON-PARMA", i.e. the spanish dynasty of bourbon parma. They were ruling over italian people in Italy but still retained up to today their spanish identity. 2511:, for example), the Talk Page consensus has always been to leave the issue of how Greek ancient Macedonia was indeterminate by leaving the word "Greek" out of the description of what ancient Macedonia was. It was a "kingdom", not a "Greek kingdom". Refer to 1180:. Just because political rivals say otherwise doesn't make Philip any less Greek, since he became the ruler of Greece and was prone to being called a barbarian by his rivals. Philip also participated and won in the Olympics an honor reserved only to Greeks. 1395:

Based on the information you provided, an IP changed the date format without discussion in 2012, 10 years after the article had been stable using the BC/AD format. This should not have been done without discussion. Therefore, I support your change.

888:"The Balkan situation was far from secure, with the Odrysians and Scythians only recently defeated and with the Triballi still defiant. Yet Philip was confident of success in the interest of the Greek-speaking world and of Macedonia in particular. ( 2592:

It is correct that the Athenians landed at Methone and the number of the contingent led by Mantias is correct also, however, what is 'false', if one can at all use this word here, is that the Athenians engaged in any battle, let alone be crushed.

209:

I removed the following about skeletal remains as it appears at odds with journals and articles at present... "However, interestingly, no body or skeleton were ever found. All that remains of Philip II is ash, contained in a magnificent golden

2589:"while the Athenians had landed at Methone on the coast, a contingent under a Macedonian pretender called Argaeus. Using diplomacy, Philip pushed back Paionians and Thracians promising tributes, and crushed the 3,000 Athenian hoplites (359)." 2936:

then there would be a dispute, which they can then resolve by adding sources if they think it is important to restore the information. Otherwise, using the disputed tag puts into an unnecessary category because there is no actual dispute. –

806:"The Macedonian kings attracted Greek culture to their court and encouraged economic development of their country by trading with the Greek states, but their realm remained impervious to the political effects of Greek influence." (page 535) 1003:

remaining bone material from all parts of the skeleton. At least in the last article there was a reconstruction of his face presented. But this reconstruction uses portraits of Philipp. Overall a public relation gimmick imo. -Anon

2746:

There is a cluster of articles here that QuaestorGaius ignores every time he shows up at one to push this same argument before being consensus-ed out and moving on to another of the articles. That cluster includes this article,

2806:

Are you disputing something on the page or just saying the page needs more citations? The cn tags are useful, but it doesn't look like the disputed tag is adding anything to the two other tags at the top of the the article. –

2731:

Can this matter be resolved by instead using the more generic term "Hellenic"? Obviously in antiquity many tribes/nations were Hellenic and I realise there is a need to be specific here with the Macedonian polity in question.

681:

which is different then saying he is Macedonian and not mentioning "which is a Greek tribe", this specifically distinct Macedonians from Greeks. In the case of Aristotle, Greek tribes were located on the coast of Macedonia.

1110:

2) There are more evidence to support that ancient Macedonian was a Greek dialect rather the opposite. So until the evidence are accumulated to prove otherwise we will stick with what we have. That is the only truth we can

2596:

Philip pulled out of Amphipolis, as he was in need or reinforcements (for the 4000 who died alongside Perdikkas III. against Bardylis), and declared it autonomous, although it factually had that status from 427 onwards.

2603:

Argaios, however, went to Aigai (the former capital, till 400/399) in order to rally people to his cause. He was unsuccessful and on returning to Methone he was intercepted by Philip and most probably executed.

1765:

It is mentioned who Philip's parents are in the article. Reader's who are interested in Philip's ancestry can click on their names. POV-worded generaliztions using cherry-picked sources in the lede are useless.

1583:

When theories about ethnicity belong to the lead and when not? There are some examples for the usage of controversial ethnic theories at the lead throughout Knowledge (XXG). The theory for the Greek origin of

319:

Someone better informed than me needs to look into the facts of Philip's youth as a hostage. The current text descibes him as a "prisoner", which suggests a misunderstanding of the ancient practice of hostage

523:

origins or hellenized and absorbed in hellenism over the archaic and classical years, their ruling house claimed greek descent from time immemorial. So do not condaminate the article with propaganda material.

280:

This article was written using "BC". It was changed a few months ago by Neutrality to BCE. This is clearly in violation of policy, and I can think of no reason why it should continue to be reverted to BCE.

2218: 2377:

project; we will all just hold a séance together (in "common") with the ghost of King Philip himself to find out if he really was "a Macedonian King from northern Greece." That ought to settle the

1501:

Similarly, apart from Online Etymology Dictionary being a self-published non-RS, the etymology of this particular man's name has absolutely no place in this article let alone its lead. It goes at

2336: 2129:

The article is not well structured, could use more subdivisions. Some important material is missing, like his military buildup, the silver mines and the siege train. references aren't clear.

2042:(unindent) It seems you care a great deal about Philip, and the notion of racial purity. Please try to understand that other people do not share your obsession with racial purity. There are 870:"We must remember too that Philip and Alexander were Greeks, descended from Heracles; they wished to be recognized by the Greeks as benefactors of the Greeks, even as Heracles had been." ( 861:"It seems now that Alexander wanted from the Greek states a public and universal recognition of his benefactions, and that he wanted it as being himself a Greek of the Temenid family." ( 1521:

by-name, and listing it has the unfortunate side-effect of reinforcing the misunderstanding that Greek "Μακεδῶν" and English "Macedon" are translation equivalents, which they are not.

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archeological evidence so far ancient Macedonians were one of those Greek tribes... who later unified the rest of the tribes not only by force but also culturally (e.g. creation of

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The ancient world was full of these kinds of ancestries. The Epirot kings claimed descent from Achilles, the Spartan kings from Herakles, the Romans from the Troyans and so on.

2860:, are you disputing something in the section or do you just think it needs more citations? There is a tag for "citations needed" that would be more appropriate in that case. – 2046:

sources that state the Argeads were of Greek origin. If you are so deeply ignorant of this subject so as to not be aware of this, then maybe you should not edit this article.

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the uncited statements then I would have to remove the entire section. That would not be helpful. The tag is correctly placed and I followed the protocol for adding the tag. -

651:). Besides that assuming that you are correct then could you please explain to me why on the entry of Aristotle it describes him as Greek and yet he was born in Macedonia? 2219:

https://web.archive.org/web/20101106180914/http://oyc.yale.edu/classics/introduction-to-ancient-greek-history/content/sessions/session-24-twilight-of-the-polis-cont.-and

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but also the twelve Greek Gods... This religion common to all Greeks shows the close relationship between the Macedonians and the other Greek races of southern Greece...

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So it seems to me that Hammond repeatedly distinguishes between the Greeks and the Macedonians as two distinct (though obviously closely related) political entities.

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2) Please read the achieves! This discussion with the same/similar arguments has been repeated way too many times both in this article and in Alexander the Great.

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Do not change the established era style in an article unless there are reasons specific to its content. Seek consensus on the talk page before making the change.

573:"He was not, however, a Greek politician or even a Greek, but king of the Macedonians" - Britannica. Knowledge (XXG) has got to be more neutral on its articles. 2153:, companion of Alexander the Great and later ruler of Egypt. There is plenty of primary and secondary evidence suggesting that this was a distinct possibility. 2212: 1421:) 20:22, 2 August 2008 (UTC) I am afraid that Philip is Macedonian not Greek king He is Alexander's father The biggest king ever Both Macedonian not Greek 3029: 727:(it is the third video)! So now please tell me who is wrong here... either you misunderstanding the not so clarified text in Britannica or Britannica 130: 1619:

Who is "truly" and "purely" anything? Everyone is mixed to some extent. This is not the criterion for Philips's origin. It looks as if you are after

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1) I have no intention to debate. Hammond is one of the leading scholars suggesting that Macedonian language is a Greek dialect. For more look here:

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No. Macedon's conflict with Rome came much later after Alexander had died and the "successors" were becoming aggressive in Macedon and Seleucia.

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All that is proven is that the Philip bribed the Paionians or made them promises. Diod. 16.... And he attcked only when Kg. Agis had died.

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not everyone uses bc. that is a religious term. using shouldbe a voilation. bce is used by most scholars now days with the same time table.

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called "The settlement of Greece and the assassination of Philip". Chapter 4 is called "Alexander and the Greeks defeat Persia 336-330."

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this so called greek dialect the ancient macedonians spoke": You must read a little more about, or you can simply take a look in the

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Could you please list a few examples of "strong statements that are uncited" in this article that you find particularly troubling? —

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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been settled. Musgrave's study (2010) smashed the pseudo-scientists, and since then I'm not aware of any study disputing Phil. II.

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disputing specific information. I am disputing the factual accuracy of the info in the section. The tag very clearly states "This

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There has been edit-warring by a new editor to add controversies about Philip's origin at the lead. The edit uses weasel words (

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which was the people's dialect, any modern Greek can understand it. If you cannot, below is the English translation. Regards, --

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http://oyc.yale.edu/classics/introduction-to-ancient-greek-history/content/sessions/session-24-twilight-of-the-polis-cont.-and

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factual accuracy is disputed." Which is totally in line with my reasoning because I am disputing the factual accuracy of the

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as unreliable as long as the section is lacking in sources. The section makes strong claims without any point of reference. -

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http://pothos.org/alexander.asp?paraID=53&keyword_id=9&title=Death%20of%20Philip%3A%20Murder%20or%20Assassination%3F

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Athens, whose main goal it was to regain power over Amphipolis, perceived this withdrawal of Philip as a sign of goodwill.

1551:. If it belongs anywhere, it is at the main body of the article and after discussion to determine how it is to be phrased. 770:

Nah, you were right on the matter. Britannica was very confusing when it stated that sentence, but i guess it makes sense.

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giving him an army that could beat anything sence only a very small elite in the greek citys was proffessional soldiers.

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Macedonian, which may or may not be Greek, but he had no particular connections to the modern nation of Macedonia.

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The question about calling Macedon a 'Greek kingdom', a 'Hellenic kingdom' or just a 'kingdom' has been discussed

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It doesn't seem to be entirely clear that Philip was a Greek, nor that Macedon was part of Greece. In my copy of

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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1) Do not delete consensus material supported by references! There is little toleration in WP for such actions.

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um... OMG... this is just way TOO much info. i didn't use it... NO WAY. just too much. dumb it down people!!!

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https://web.archive.org/web/20101030014100/http://oyc.yale.edu/classics/introduction-to-ancient-greek-history/

2005: 2001: 1612: 643:. For example, in Britannica the entry for Pericles says that he is an Athenian (no mention that he is Greek) 465:

7. But please keep this for my sake so that these events do not happen and wretched Thetima perishes miserably

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https://web.archive.org/web/20110728083822/http://www.tekmeria.org/index.php/tekmiria/article/view/216/336

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https://web.archive.org/web/20110728083822/http://www.tekmeria.org/index.php/tekmiria/article/view/216/336

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There should be some mention in the article of the possibility that Philip fathered an illegitimate son,

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The article appears at odds with Science vol288 p511 "", 21 April 2000, which implies that the 1977 tomb

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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Not really; once you get familiar with Hammond's work you will see he doesn't really make a distinction:

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1. Of ma and Dionysophon the ritual wedding and the marriage I bind by a written spell, and of all other

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I understand your statements for your examples, but for Philip II Britannica SPECIFICALLY states,

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accept that they were wrong. Otherwise the article text should probably be moderated somewhat.

1116: 1087: 775: 741: 687: 656: 622: 617:, stating "He was not, however, a Greek politician or even a Greek, but king of the Macedonians" 578: 559: 372: 138: 96: 79:

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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There is no controversy about Philip strong enough to warrant mention at the lead. It would be

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If you truly feel it ought to go back in, give a reason here on the talk page and reinsert it.

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more Greek than anyone else since they unified the Greeks in terms of culture and language?

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For instance have a look at the site of the former reigning ducal house of Parma, in Italy.

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is a sockpuppet account. We shouldn't try to reason with sockpuppets, but to ban them. ---

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https://web.archive.org/web/20100304065912/http://www.holoka.com/diodorus%20on%20philip.htm

2120: 1857:. There are even more excellent sources that state the opposite of what you are claiming. 1461:

The majority of scholars seem to concur that the ancient Macedonians were of Greek stock.

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here. It is also quite evident we are dealing with a very obvious attempt at POV-pushing.

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References updated with modern publications. Philip Arrhidaeus hypothesis is very weak. --

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you have a POV about the content, then get your own citations and edit the paragraph. --

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were such a political entity. On every page where ancient Macedonia has been discussed (

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on this encyclopedia because a collective of powerful editors from that nation maintain

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Ancient Macedon had been declared to be Greek since the days of Alexander I of Macedon.

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what a country refers to itself, despite everything..is what is shall be named on wiki.

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

2262: 679:"He was not, however, a Greek politician or even a Greek, but king of the Macedonians" 450:

2. wo, widows and maidens, but of Thetima in particular, and I entrust upon Makron and

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Cf. Worthington, Ian. Philip II of Macedonia. New Haven/London: Yale UP, 2008. 6-25.

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Last edited at 16:27, 15 April 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 02:50, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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simply claims he was not Greek, whether you like Philip or not. If it is a matter of

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FYRM as "Macedonia". We do not agree with our politicians that voted in favor of it

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6. Have pity for a, dear daimones, for I am bereft of all my dear ones and abandoned.

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He was obviously Greek and this so called “consensus” is a fraud maintained by you.

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wording that doesn't overtly and unambiguously label ancient Macedonia as "Greek":

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4. may they wed Dionysophon, but not before; and may he never wed any woman but me;

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Yet, another rant on the matter - you could at least not shout (write in caps) --

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1. ΜΑΣ ΚΑΙ ΔΙΟΝΥΣΟΦΩΝΤΟΣ ΤΟ ΤΕΛΟΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΟΝ ΓΑΜΟΝ ΚΑΤΑΓΡΑΦΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΑΝ ΑΛΛΑΝ ΠΑΣΑΝ ΓΥ

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

2261:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 2091:

territory, judging by the intensity with which you disrupt multiple articles.

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Alexander - is called a Greek in his respective article, but Philip is not..

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2. ΩΝ ΚΑΙ ΧΗΡΑΝ ΚΑΙ ΠΑΡΘΕΝΩΝ ΜΑΛΙΣΤΑ ΔΕ ΘΕΤΙΜΑΣ ΚΑΙ ΠΑΡΚΑΤΤΙΘΕΜΑΙ ΜΑΚΡΩΝΙ ΚΑΙ

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Anyone want to add in the military reforms that Philip enacted in Macedonia?

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You seem new here (let's assume) so therefore, please read (and understand)

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Phillip was a Macedonian King from northern Greece. That's a common seance.

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5. and may grow old with Dionysophon, and no one else. I your supplicant:

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3. daimones. And that only whenever I dig out and unroll and re-read this,

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is anybody talking i got a report to do and its hard can some1 help me out

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4. ΓΑΜΑΙ ΔΙΟΝΥΣΟΦΩΝΤΑ ΠΡΟΤΕΡΟΝ ΔΕ ΜΗ ΜΗ ΓΑΡ ΛΑΒΟΙ ΑΛΛΑΝ ΓΥΝΑΙΚΑ ΑΛΛ Η ΕΜΕ

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in where you maybe see some of the proof you so much need. Although is in

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3. ΔΑΙΜΟΣΙ ΚΑΙ ΟΠΟΚΑ ΕΓΟ ΤΑΥΤΑ ΔΙΕΛΕΞΑΙΜΙ ΚΑΙ ΑΝΑΓΝΟΙΗΝ ΠΑΛLΙΝ ΑΝΟΡΟΞΑΣΑ

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One "proof of this so called Greek dialect the ancient Macedonians spoke"

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Could the page be protected from numbered users? This is pretty tiresome.

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7. Α ΦΥΛΑΣΣΕΤΕ ΕΜΙΝ ΟΩΣ ΜΗ ΓΙΝΕΤΑΙ ΤΑΤΑ ΚΑΙ ΚΑΚΑ ΚΑΚΩΣ ΘΕΤΙΜΑ ΑΠΟΛΗΤΑΙ

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6. ΑΝ ΟΙΚΤΙΡΕΤΕ ΔΑΙΜΟΝΕΣ ΦΙΛΙ ΔΑΓΙΝΑΓΑΡΙΜΕ ΦΙΛΩΝ ΠΑΝΤΩΝ ΚΑΙ ΕΡΗΜΑ ΑΛΛΑ

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generic, too generalist and too lacking in detail as to be useless.

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the Greek. That's why it's there. Similarly, he didn't speak Latin.

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5. Ε ΣΥΝΚΑΤΑΓΗΡΑΣΑΙ ΔΙΟΝΥΣΟΦΩΝΤΙ ΚΑΙ ΜΗΔΕΜΙΑΝ ΑΛΛΑΝ ΙΚΕΤΙΣ ΥΜΩΝ ΓΙΝΟ

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http://oyc.yale.edu/classics/introduction-to-ancient-greek-history/

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against. The more, the better, but should be good sources at least.

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Edit-warring to add controversies about Philip's origin at the lead

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and want to advertise it at the lead. As far as the Cyril article

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did phillip ever i fight rome? ithought i read somewhere he did.

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Hope this helps. Sorry it's all from a book, rather than a link.

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quite humorous. What's next, referencing that USA is American? --

2385:. I just had to say something; the opportunity was too good.) -- 2373:

This sounds a bit like it could be an amusing suggestion for an

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http://www.tekmeria.org/index.php/tekmiria/article/view/216/336

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http://www.tekmeria.org/index.php/tekmiria/article/view/216/336

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Macedon had been declared Greek since the days of Alexander I

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some historians consider Philip II not truly or purely Greek.

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Experts on the field say otherwise. Please, read the sources

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8. ΑΛ.ΥΝΜ .. ΕΣΠΛΗΝ ΕΜΟΣ ΕΜΕ ΔΕ ΥΑΙΜΟΝΑ ΚΑΙ ΜΑΚΑΡΙΑΝ ΓΕΝΕΣΤΑΙ

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to do so at the lead. Your phraseology is also heavily POV:

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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such a claim should IMO be confirmed in some other way.

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However, Hammond also makes the following statements:

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contemporary Greek nationalism wants to be Greek. --

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Please check your text for typos. "common seance". A

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

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Macedonia has been declared Greek since Alexander I

2916:not any specific text in the section. The tag does 2265:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 2788:I added a disputed tag. Here is my edit summary: 2502:There was no formal "Greece" in the ancient world 2197:http://www.holoka.com/diodorus%20on%20philip.htm 1547:. This material does not belong at the lead per 2423:Semi-protected edit request on 19 November 2018 2119:, and are posted here for posterity. Following 232:by the way: did you know funny jesters such as 2355:is "an attempt to communicate with spirits.". 2251:This message was posted before February 2018. 892:, p.21, Gerald Duckworth & Co Ltd, 2004) 2113:The comment(s) below were originally left at 1370:changed it to BCE/CE without prior discussion 261:hope i didn't break any rules by entering it. 192:hope i didn't break any rules by entering it. 8: 3037:here in order to determine the consensus. -- 1409:I like how that he is Greek has a reference 856:, Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1989, pp. 12-15) 2611: 2516:articles related to ancient Macedonia. -- 2330: 1366:original notation of the article was BC/AD 104: 2661:"Greek" is simplistic and inaccurate. -- 2175:I have just modified 6 external links on 131:Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment 1195:Philip described himself as a Greek King 1127:dialect the ancient macedonians spoke. 2571:He did not crush the Athenians in 359 ! 468:8. but let me become happy and blessed. 149:Pederastic relationship with Pelopidas? 129:Above undated message substituted from 2749:History of Macedonia (ancient kingdom) 2636:He was a Greek King of a Greek Kingdom 2553:History of Macedonia (ancient kingdom) 2537:Expansion of Macedonia under Philip II 2370: 2337:2A02:587:B41F:6800:8891:C792:BCA6:5F26 1616: 1540: 883:, Duckworth Publishing, February 1998) 713:for the article Ancient Macedonia and 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 2083:And I would say that you are deep in 1380:I restored the status quo ante. Best 719:Macedonia is not only considered the 7: 1215:, FYROM is allowed to label it self 3052:I have a strong feeling that this 2116:Talk:Philip II of Macedon/Comments 2065:, which is a disruptive behaviour. 1534: 153:Any citations for this statement? 84: 80: 24: 3024:back in 2017 in the talk page of 2179:. Please take a moment to review 2121:several discussions in past years 1655:Agree with Dr.K. We are deep in 890:The Genius of Alexander the Great 797:"A History of Greece to 322 B.C." 2478: 2430: 1064:3) Note that ancient Greek does 910:And there was I thinking that I 87:. Further details are available 74: 29: 2950:If you read the disputed tag's 2211:Corrected formatting/usage for 1368:. At some later point, someone 218:, within his stone sarcophagus. 1437:22:39, 23 September 2008 (UTC) 1238:08:43, 28 September 2011 (UTC) 563:10:40, 26 September 2010 (UTC) 236:allege phillip to have been a 1: 3067:12:43, 20 February 2022 (UTC) 3047:19:41, 17 February 2022 (UTC) 2774:15:56, 17 February 2020 (UTC) 2742:13:50, 17 February 2020 (UTC) 2496:00:08, 20 November 2018 (UTC) 2473:23:59, 19 November 2018 (UTC) 2101:06:05, 27 November 2015 (UTC) 2075:05:53, 27 November 2015 (UTC) 2056:05:31, 27 November 2015 (UTC) 2019:05:24, 27 November 2015 (UTC) 1959:06:53, 26 November 2015 (UTC) 1912:06:10, 26 November 2015 (UTC) 1867:06:03, 26 November 2015 (UTC) 1817:05:52, 26 November 2015 (UTC) 1776:03:44, 26 November 2015 (UTC) 1737:02:38, 26 November 2015 (UTC) 1700:02:26, 26 November 2015 (UTC) 1669:02:06, 26 November 2015 (UTC) 1639:02:03, 26 November 2015 (UTC) 1599:01:36, 26 November 2015 (UTC) 1579:00:51, 22 November 2015 (UTC) 1563:16:37, 21 November 2015 (UTC) 1305:01:17, 18 February 2009 (UTC) 1279:12:06, 9 September 2012 (UTC) 966:17:47, 21 December 2010 (UTC) 946:15:32, 23 December 2010 (UTC) 931:11:54, 23 December 2010 (UTC) 902:15:45, 21 December 2010 (UTC) 838:14:57, 21 December 2010 (UTC) 550:06:51, 15 December 2009 (UTC) 533:06:44, 15 December 2009 (UTC) 489:00:30, 20 November 2009 (UTC) 360:06:07, 20 December 2009 (UTC) 309:01:20, 18 February 2009 (UTC) 2724:17:19, 20 October 2019 (UTC) 2413:02:58, 15 October 2018 (UTC) 2319:17:13, 5 December 2017 (UTC) 1529:14:47, 13 October 2014 (UTC) 1515:12:51, 13 October 2014 (UTC) 1482:15:17, 12 January 2014 (UTC) 1403:12:53, 7 December 2013 (UTC) 1390:12:21, 7 December 2013 (UTC) 1321:22:41, 2 November 2012 (UTC) 780:04:44, 3 November 2008 (UTC) 746:02:55, 3 November 2008 (UTC) 721:birthplace of the Greek race 692:01:15, 3 November 2008 (UTC) 661:20:22, 2 November 2008 (UTC) 627:17:16, 2 November 2008 (UTC) 608:16:42, 2 November 2008 (UTC) 583:06:41, 2 November 2008 (UTC) 389:05:13, 25 October 2009 (UTC) 334:12:15, 9 December 2009 (UTC) 158:23:26, 7 February 2006 (UTC) 143:06:32, 17 January 2022 (UTC) 3026:Macedonia (ancient kingdom) 2753:Macedonia (ancient kingdom) 2545:Ancient Macedonian language 2541:Macedonia (ancient kingdom) 2509:Macedonia (ancient kingdom) 2457:to reactivate your request. 2445:has been answered. Set the 1494:or the Greek: the translit 1353:19:46, 31 August 2013 (UTC) 1257:17:27, 4 October 2011 (UTC) 1105:Ancient_Macedonian_language 981:) 14:53, 26 April 2011 (UT 339:Phillips II military reform 3083: 2946:04:36, 29 April 2020 (UTC) 2931:01:48, 29 April 2020 (UTC) 2900:18:15, 28 April 2020 (UTC) 2885:08:29, 27 April 2020 (UTC) 2870:18:38, 26 April 2020 (UTC) 2853:10:50, 26 April 2020 (UTC) 2838:22:09, 12 April 2020 (UTC) 2817:17:23, 12 April 2020 (UTC) 2801:06:45, 12 April 2020 (UTC) 2578:This is very speculative! 2565:14:02, 24 April 2019 (UTC) 2526:20:12, 23 April 2019 (UTC) 2282:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2172:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2163:11:01, 24 April 2017 (UTC) 2134:16:27, 15 April 2007 (UTC) 1327:Philip II was a greek king 1199:I understand that despite 1170:22:13, 4 August 2009 (UTC) 1143:00:58, 4 August 2009 (UTC) 1015:09:21, 20 April 2011 (UTC) 512:17:34, 23 March 2010 (UTC) 123:05:00, 16 April 2021 (UTC) 2705:15:48, 17 July 2019 (UTC) 2690:10:35, 17 July 2019 (UTC) 2671:03:41, 17 July 2019 (UTC) 2651:23:30, 16 July 2019 (UTC) 2630:23:07, 20 June 2019 (UTC) 2395:20:29, 11 July 2018 (UTC) 2365:17:20, 11 July 2018 (UTC) 2345:11:21, 10 July 2018 (UTC) 2128: 1121:16:35, 12 July 2009 (UTC) 1092:19:41, 10 July 2009 (UTC) 1052:18:52, 10 July 2009 (UTC) 289:19:18, 26 July 2005 (UTC) 180:12:34, 3 April 2008 (UTC) 18:Talk:Philip II of Macedon 3004:Greek / Hellenic Kingdom 2379:Macedonia naming dispute 1456:16:13, 10 May 2011 (UTC) 1372:. I undid this move per 1211:designation to the name 1190:15:37, 2 June 2011 (UTC) 569:Philip II was MACEDONIAN 437:9. ΤΟ....Ε.Ε.ΩΑ.Ε..ΜΕΓΕ 271:20:10, 13 May 2008 (UTC) 245:09:48, 24 May 2006 (UTC) 202:20:10, 13 May 2008 (UTC) 163:Numbered user protection 2980:12:27, 3 May 2020 (UTC) 2965:10:32, 3 May 2020 (UTC) 2369:Humorous side comment: 2168:External links modified 1445:Alexander_I_of_Macedon 1178:Alexander_I_of_Macedon 972:Alexander_I_of_Macedon 938:A Macedonian, a Greek. 894:A Macedonian, a Greek. 404: 2972:TaivoLinguist (Taivo) 2766:TaivoLinguist (Taivo) 2383:reduction ad absurdum 1690:suggest any phrasing? 396: 214:, decorated with the 91:. Student editor(s): 42:of past discussions. 2463:NINJA IS MY MOM LOL 2443:Philip II of Macedon 2263:regular verification 2177:Philip II of Macedon 863:The Macedonian State 854:The Macedonian State 2757:Ancient Macedonians 2549:Ancient Macedonians 2531:Pages that use the 2253:After February 2018 2089:WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS 2061:You keep following 1625:WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS 1586:Cyril and Methodius 1503:Philip (given name) 872:Alexander The Great 206:__________________ 93:LieutenantKennedy17 3020:terminology was a 2411: 2408:Pericles of Athens 2324:Lock this atricle! 2307:InternetArchiveBot 2258:InternetArchiveBot 2109:Assessment comment 405: 373:Pella curse tablet 238:reptilian humanoid 95:. Peer reviewers: 89:on the course page 2759:, etc. where the 2632: 2616:comment added by 2461: 2460: 2405: 2375:original research 2347: 2335:comment added by 2283: 2139: 2138: 1485: 1468:comment added by 1427:comment added by 1401: 1356: 1339:comment added by 1295:comment added by 1269:comment added by 1173: 1156:comment added by 1133:comment added by 1055: 1038:comment added by 936:...no comment... 921:comment added by 881:Philip of Macedon 828:comment added by 502:comment added by 479:comment added by 350:comment added by 299:comment added by 125: 109:comment added by 67: 66: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 3074: 3065: 3014: 2957:TrynaMakeADollar 2938:wallyfromdilbert 2923:TrynaMakeADollar 2892:wallyfromdilbert 2877:TrynaMakeADollar 2862:wallyfromdilbert 2858:TrynaMakeADollar 2845:TrynaMakeADollar 2827: 2824:TrynaMakeADollar 2809:wallyfromdilbert 2793:TrynaMakeADollar 2486:no edit request 2482: 2481: 2452: 2448: 2434: 2433: 2427: 2409: 2317: 2308: 2281: 2280: 2259: 2126: 2125: 2118: 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