3177:ā magazine. This magazine is not listed at the Reliable Sources page, so it is not clear whether it is a respected journal. The title of the article indicates it is more of an opinion piece than a scientific paper. The article starts: āOver the past decade, the āMuslim grooming gangsā narrative has become firmly established in popular and political discourse in the UK. Claims of how Muslim culture and faith supposedly perpetuate sexual abuse have helped collectively demonise British Muslim communities, especially young Muslim men. Initially driven by the rightwing media, this construction has been advanced and legitimised by ostensibly liberal and feminist actors.ā This kind of assertion is the sort of thing you would expect in an opinion piece in the political pages of a newspaper. It goes on: āAdditional boosts have come via discredited, highly-politicised and partisan āresearchā from special interest groups, apparently seeking to capitalise on wider anti-Muslim attitudes in order to influence government policy and otherwise profit.ā This sounds like a reference to the Quilliam report. It does not say how the groups would ācapitaliseā or āprofitā, but seems to be a general attempt to smear these groups, and seems to me to be possibly defamatory. Throughout the article, there is a partisan tone. For instance, it refers to
3170:(c) The first sentence says that the researchers condemned Quilliam for spreading āoutright liesā against British Muslims. This is not what the source says. The only reference I can find in the report to āoutright liesā is in this sentence: āTellingly, the key word ācomprehensiveā was later deleted amid furtive corrections to the published report: when challenged, staff outright lied and continued to meet valid criticisms with personal attacks.ā This is in the part of the report which criticises Quilliamās staffās response to criticisms of their report ā the alleged lies were about the report. There is no allegation in the source that Quilliamās report spreads lies about Muslims. This is a serious misrepresentation of the source.
81:
53:
2904:
The Bell Curve along with The
Witherspoon Institute who argue against LGBT equality" may unfairly prejudice viewpoints concerning the work of the think-tank. The main issue arises because the wording seems could seem to indicate that the think-tank shares many views with the "ultra-conservative" right wing, without making clear what those views are. The book "The Bell Curve" is also controversial, but I also believe calling it outright "racist" in the context of the Quilliam foundation could further influence how readers view the work of the think-tank in general. The same goes for the inclusion of "The Witherspoon Institute who argue against LGBT equality."
3297:"Stereotypes of āMuslim rape gangsā were greatly boosted by the Quilliam Foundationās āgrooming gangsā report, source of the spurious but ubiquitous claim that ā84% of grooming gang offendersā are Asian. Although framed as āacademicā and āevidence-basedā, the report is shoddy pseudoscience. Its conclusion that the āover-representation of Asian-ethnicity (predominantly British Pakistani origin) individuals . . . is conclusively irrefutableā is deeply misleading. The supposedly āspecific crime profileā under investigation is actually confused, inconsistent and incoherent"
3133:. It is misleading because it suggests to the reader that there have been several instances of condemnation, whereas the source only provides one article critical of Quilliam. (By referring to āresearchersā as plural, presumably NSSL is referring to the authors of the article in Race & Class.) Since there is only one report referred to in the article which criticises Quilliam in this way, I consider that it is not appropriate to have this sentence in the lead, as it gives undue prominence to the report, and I propose that it should be deleted.
2732:
commentator (as many more that I've seen). Had
Quilliam been a mystic Sufi with no political dimension it might have been a clearer signal. Thus, the criticism of the name is neither undue nor original research. It exists "out there" and the link above should be used. Whether it is a valid criticism is another matter and left to the sources to debate. Given the phrase "new eponymous foundation" which links to the Qulliam website, I believe this isn't a synthesis on the part of the authors of this paragraph.
3181:: āNotably, Javidās interest in racialising sexual offending has not extended to organised abuse in schools, religious institutions, sports clubs, politics, celebrity circles and other contexts likely dominated by white offenders.ā This is why I referred to the article in my edit summary as āopinionated original researchā ā it is very much more an opinion piece than a measured social science report. Indeed, I find Kenan Malikās opinion piece in the Guardian to be more measured and temperate.
1441:
4288:
the original article said. 3. If it weren't for Full Fact and other critics, the article would not have been modified until now. But what if Byline Times was talking about hidden data that only them have access to as in the case right now? That's why I think that this incident can be taken as an evidence of poor fact checking specially when talking about secret documents that nobody has access to except them.
304:
878:
by the idea that there is no prejudice going on). Just examine their website for the names of the scholars on their page, and then dig around for their views - most of them oppose the things the
Quillam Foundation promotes! And let's not even get into the shadowy financiers behind the whole project - 'Kuwaiti businessmen' whose identities Ed Husain refuses to divulge (see the Guardian website).
2712:. 2) Neither the fact Abdullah Quilliam opposed Muslim troops being sent to fight Muslims, nor that he was an opponent of the British empire, are demonstrably in themselves positions contrary to the think tank's. Of course there may be people out there who claim they are, but if so we can only say so if there is a unambiguous reliable citation which says as much. Without that, this looks like
161:
3190:(g) Proposal: I propose that the Quilliam report, and criticism of it, should be stated in one sentence: āThe Quilliam Foundationās report āGroup Based Child Sexual Exploitation ā Dissecting Grooming Gangsā has been criticised for poor methodology.ā The source would be the article by Cockbain and Tufail. Anything more would give undue weight to this report and the criticism of it.
67:
22:
230:
220:
2911:. This is useful in that it provides more information about funding sources of Quilliam while allowing readers to learn more about it without running the risk of prejudicing readers to the work of Quilliam itself, independent of its donors. I of course welcome any feedback from more experienced editors than myself, and am happy to clarify anywhere it is needed!
199:
2955:"According to one of its co-founders, Maajid Nawaz, who is an atheist, "We wish to raise awareness around Islamism"; he also said, "I want to demonstrate how the Islamist ideology is incompatible with Islam. Secondly ā¦ develop a Western Islam that is at home in Britain and in Europe ā¦ reverse radicalisation by taking on their arguments and countering them.""
3485:"The Quilliam Foundationās report āGroup Based Child Sexual Exploitation ā Dissecting Grooming Gangsā has been criticised for it's poor methodology by Ella Cockbain and Waqas Tufail, in their paper āFailing victims, fuelling hate: challenging the harms of the 'Muslim grooming gangs' narrativeā which was published in 2020"
3023:. Repeated violations can lead to a block.@Sweet6970: Knowledge doesn't work like that and you don't get the option to make demands on other editors before participating in talk page discussions. If you decline to answer the very reasonable questions above you are disqualifying yourself from editing the article.
3552:
My opinion was requested above. I will refrain from investigating the details of the discussion but will look at subsequent editing of the article and may comment later when content is changed. I am unlikely to express an opinion on the merits of the edits because administrators need to be careful to
2819:
I don't know what the cost of such research is, but it does now look as though it's not a straight-forward case of a "donation". Having initially kept the info in the article (with some amendment to make the wording NPOV), I am now rather inclined to keep this "on hold" until we have another reliable
2678:
Quilliam seeks to challenge what we think, and the way we think. It aims to generate creative thought paradigms through informed and inclusive discussion to counter the
Islamist ideology behind terrorism, whilst simultaneously providing evidence-based recommendations to governments for related policy
2675:
Extremism, a prelude to terrorism, cannot be contained by
Muslims alone. Not least because religious rigidity and extremism are products of the failures of wider society to foster a shared sense of belonging and to advance liberal democratic values among all sections of society. That said, we believe
1108:
This game led to someone being stabbed - a significant fact. Something significant happened during the game that then led to an argument and stabbing over a game - secondary factors may also exist. If you believe there are additional causative factors, you are welcome to justify and add - however you
1086:
Hussain was never a member of Hizb ut-Tahrir and has yet to state he has - only a member of a group can resign. Hussain tried to gain
Islamist credibility by implying he was a member by the use of vague and ambiguous comments. Hizb ut-Tahrir have officially stated he has never been a member. Ref: CNN
4182:
can you summarise why it is? If it has editorial oversight I see no reason for not including it within the article. On the other hand if it doesn't then I'd be against it being placed in there. On the outset it looks like a normal newspaper? Please, both of you, make a short as reply as you possibly
3947:
I think it is more important for the headings to be informative, rather than to look good. Readers will only look at the section on the SPLC if they are interested, and if they donāt know what the initials stand for, they are unlikely to bother. Now I have looked at the Maajid Nawaz article, I think
3517:
I would accept the wording in italics in your post, as a replacement for the current section headed āErroneous reporting on Muslim rape gangsā. (āItsā does not have an apostrophe in this context.) The source would be the
Cockbain and Tufail report. To get to this, I would first revert your last edit
2869:
According to the BBC source you provided earlier, the Ā£120,000 was given by the DfE in May 2011, so essentially this doesn't invalidate the sentence with which the paragraph you wanted removed says: "Since 2011 Quilliam has not received government ('public') funding". Until we have a reliable source
1619:
Husain's non-membership of HT is factual - Taji
Mustafa Spokesman of Hizb Tahrir UK on CNN stated Ed Husain had never been a member (whereas they acknowledge Nawaz was a member) - Ed's response was he "studied" with them for two years - a significant difference for anyone who has read Tahrir's party
895:
Mualliq appears to work for the foundation as he appears to strip out anything negative about the foundation, regardless if it is in accordance with Wiki policies or not, and insert propaganda pieces in favour of the foundation. This article needs to be reverted and each area be worked on section by
3343:
The quote which NSSL proposes to include is a claim by the authors of the report. As regards the statement by
Cockbain & Tufail that the Quilliam report is āpseudoscienceā: I do not think that Cockbain & Tufail are in a position to criticise anyone on this ā their article is almost entirely
3228:
is standard procedure. However, please do not split the big post and start discussing each point. Instead, take the most pressing concern with the best evidence and start a new section to discuss that point. When finished, move on to the next. Or, if a couple of points are closely connected and can
2997:
In view of your allegation of pov-pushing, followed by your inappropriate report of me as a vandal, which included the accusation that I leave dishonest edit summaries, and your reference to me on Doug Wellerās talk page as a vandal, after your report had been rejected with a warning to yourself, I
2894:
Quilliam have accepted large donations from the
Conservative and Ultra-Conservative Right-Wing of US politics meaning they've shared Donors with Schwarzenegger, Bush, Romney and John McCain as well as Charles Murray, author of the racist book The Bell Curve along with The Witherspoon Institute who
2670:
I've started working through this article (as and when I can), and early on there's a lot of now dead links, many of them originally to the Quilliam site which presumably has had its pages reorganized or updated since. One is the page "About Us". The text Knowledge has at present, (originally added
1644:
It is not POV that Qardawi condones martydom operations as that is what they are in his opinion. It is important the reason remains as to why they are opposed to Qardawi as he is a very high profile scholar in the Arab world. If you feel it is important to explain their reasoning for wanting to ban
877:
These guys are quite clearly incredibly out of touch with the majority of Muslims. Ed Husain was in favour of the Iraq War and rejects the entire notion of Islamophobia (take a look at the BBC investigation into the reactions of random employers towards Islamic-sounding names on CVs if you're duped
4287:
1. They did some original research without consulting with experts and published conclusions that contain accusations based on that original research. 2. When confronted by other people who were not able to reproduce the same results from the same set of data, they made untrue statement about what
3251:
I am receiving contradictory instructions and I donāt know how to proceed. NarSakSasLee has asked me to split my arguments into headings. Johnuniq has told me not to. I cannot satisfy both of you. NSSL has said āI have no dispute with the other sections.ā If I understand NSSL correctly, this means
2903:
for a few reasons. The information regarding funding--particularly by the Bradley Foundation--does seem relevant and useful for the article, but describing the think tank as having "shared Donors with Schwarzenegger, Bush, Romney and John McCain as well as Charles Murray, author of the racist book
2815:
which states that in 2011 the DfE was "conducting research into how schools in England are helping to protect vulnerable young people from the influence of extremism. The research will contribute to the objectives of the Governmentās new Prevent strategy, and to the work on integration, led by the
1131:
At about 1 pm on Monday, 27 February 1995, a group of young men picked a quarrel with the deceased outside the College. Some of the group were armed with knives and hammers. The group having surrounded the deceased, he was stabbed to death by Nur. Qadir was armed with a hammer and at least aimed a
1103:
The trial judge said:"It was common ground that, on Friday, 24 February 1995, the deceased had sustained a small stab wound in his left arm (his right arm was withered) from an Asian student who, it appears from the documents before me, was identified as Qadir's brother, Abdul Qadir. That occurred
1068:
At about 1 pm on Monday, 27 February 1995, a group of young men picked a quarrel with the deceased outside the College. Some of the group were armed with knives and hammers. The group having surrounded the deceased, he was stabbed to death by Nur. Qadir was armed with a hammer and at least aimed a
3278:
Okay, let's make this a little clearer. My main concern has been the removal of sources and it mainly concerns point 7 (it is not a magazine, but an academic journal and as such it is important to include it's views, especially considering it is a peer-reviewed journal by authors who work for the
2641:
While no one will contest the accuracy of the information in the "Objectives" section, I would contest it's notability. It's all cited by the think tank's official website; this is certainly how they would like to be presented and the section may have been written with an overly positive POV. The
2359:
At the time of the offence, there were divisions on racial and religious grounds amongst the multi-ethnic student population of the College. These tensions had been in evidence during Ramadan that year. .... At about 1 pm on Monday, 27 February 1995, a group of young men picked a quarrel with the
1948:
Am47, I hope you'll keep in mind that Knowledge does issue blocks for personal attacks. And please sign your comments. I would be happy if a reasonably neutral article on the Quilliam Foundation could be written. Ideally, an experienced article writer would study the references and come up with a
1591:
What did Husain achieve with any group that he mentions in his book - any position of seniority? any significant responsibility? any qualifications? Nothing - this is a fact and not POV - the entire book illustrates this point if you care to read it. That is why critics argue he swung towards the
657:
Dwanyewest - sourcing from a blog in itself does not mean a source is unreliable. The source would only be unreliable if for example it was not referenced to academically peer reviewed material. Can you cite which blogsite references you think are unreliable and are in turn unreferenced? They can
390:
Ok most of the sources are not only incorrectly formatted, but also don't match up with the content they supposedly support. Also, videos, webcasts are not acceptable on wikipedia, unless you link to the written transcripts. And newspaper opinion pieces are not acceptable if they're being used to
4614:
make their opinion writers notable. If you read the Knowledge article on her, you will find that it reads like the cv of someone who is trying to make out that they are more important than they actually are. Her main achievement seems to be to get someone to pay her for giving her opinions. That
3923:
Hello Sweet, happy new year to you too! I have no objections with respect to CONTEST (I think it refers to the PREVENT strategy, the article isn't entirely clear?). With respect to the SPLC, the section is pretty short so it wouldn't really justify having such a long heading? Further, on Nawaz's
3255:
I propose that the Quilliam report, and criticism of it, should be referred to in one sentence: āThe Quilliam Foundationās report āGroup Based Child Sexual Exploitation ā Dissecting Grooming Gangsā has been criticised for poor methodology.ā The source would be the article by Cockbain and Tufail.
3125:
1. Insertion of āclaimsā in the first sentence of the lead. This is not neutral language. I propose that the first sentence be changed to: āQuilliam is a London-based think tank co-founded by Maajid Nawaz whose stated aim is to focus on counter-extremism, specifically against Islamism, which it
865:
OK, let's work on the current text that exists, and not remove referenced quotes because they may be embarrassing. I would be the first to say that the current format: a list of unfavourable quotes for opposition, is not suitable, balanced or thorough enough. But it can be worked on, rather than
3283:
as well as Cockbain being a child sex exploitation expert herself). Let's deal with this first. I think a good compromise can be made here. I am in agreement the section needs to be cut down as per the advice of another admin. He said it should be cut down to a maximum of 220 words. I think the
1165:
The report clearly states the murderer's brother Qadir stabbed the victim over a table tennis game argument - this event is causative of the murder as something dreadfully went wrong during this game. The report does not clealry state any other causative factor - thus the para in the article is
2650:
As for the "Supporters" section, then I don't know enough about Britain's Muslim community to personally comment on the accuracy. We're faced with the same issue again, though: the only source for the section is the think tank's own website. Is this support something which receives significant
4510:
is just a columnist. You can see the difference if you look at their Knowledge articles. There isnāt really enough to sustain an article on Ms Malik. Also, the wording about Ms Malikās views doesnāt really say anything, except that she doesnāt like Maajid Nawaz and Ayaan Hirsi Ali (who has no
3344:
an opinion piece, presented as social science. I donāt think it is appropriate for Knowledge to host Cockbainās & Tufailās opinions. If there is a link from Knowledge to their article, as a source, then any interested reader can make up their own mind how seriously to take their article.
2703:
Presumably the first paragraph in "Criticism" is there to imply that there is an irony that Quilliam's name was chosen by Ed Husain and Maajid Nawaaz for their think tank. I've already shunted relevant info about their choice of name to earlier in the article, and I deleted that paragraph in
3146:
4. Revert of my amendment to āQuilliam argues that Islam is just a religion, not a political religion or an ideology, ā After looking at the source, I changed this to āQuilliam argues that Islam is a faith, not an ideologyā as this was what was said in the source. Does anyone object to this
2731:
In the "live" link you provide above it says "Seen by the new eponymous foundation as a āforebearerā for British Islam." That article does mention the current foundation and discusses the real Quilliam in regards to political Islam (Islamism). Thus, the choice of Qulliam is curious for that
3310:
I propose this because in future if anyone were to criticise Cockbains and Tufail's report the section can be extended to add in opposing views. The rest of the quote which is currently in the article should be deleted. Before moving on to the other points, are we in agreement that a small
850:
In an encyclopedia article, we need to include facts about the subject, what they stand for, and who agrees with them and who doesn't. In this case, they're trying to identify a modern synthesis of Muslim views. At present this article reads like an essay plugging the views of opponents.
4676:
I interpreted the other editorās question differently ā not as a bald question āwho are these people?ā, but rather as a question to me as to why I think that Mr Murrayās opinion is significant, but Ms Malikās opinion isnāt. This is a valid question, and I believe that I have answered it
806:
This is a too wishy washy broadbrush comment that provides no help at all. Please highlight specific sections and provide specific comments so something can be done if there is a concern about hte article. There are no doubt as you are aware a large number of trolls damaging this site.
4061:
I thought you had immediately put back the material from Medium.com, after I had deleted it with an edit summary saying that the source was unreliable. You say that you werenāt aware that the source was deprecated. I am surprised that an editor of your experience didnāt check first.
3347:
It seems that the statistic that ā84% of grooming gang offenders are Asianā comes from the Quilliam report, and was reported in the press, and that this statistic is disputed. But if this is mentioned in the Knowledge article, then this is giving more publicity to a possibly dubious
2475:
A non-Saudi black student I had met at the British Council accompanied me. āLast week a woman gave birth here,ā he said, pointing to a ramshackle cardboard shanty. Disturbed, I now realised that the materials I had seen those women carrying were not always for sale but for shelter.
542:, I know that the QF may really wind you up, so you went to all this effort to write a long essay on them, much of which may be true, but you need to put the facts into wikipedia bit by bit, in a decent format, and with proper references. Wikify it. And don't remove the old stuff!
4691:. But my point remains ā the quotation by Ms Malik which is currently in the article does not give any information about Quilliam, but only about Ms Malikās attitude towards the people named, one of whom has no apparent connection to Quilliam. I consider that it should be deleted.
3367:
The Quilliam Foundationās report āGroup Based Child Sexual Exploitation ā Dissecting Grooming Gangsā has been criticised for poor methodology. In particular, Cockbain and Tufail disputed the validity of the statistic in the Quilliam report that 84% of grooming gang offenders are
2469:
A visit to Karantina, a perversion of the term āquarantineā, was one of the worst of my life. Thousands of people who had been living in Saudi Arabia for decades, but without passports, had been deemed āillegalā by the government and, quite literally, abandoned under a flyover.
2452:
Racism was an integral part of Saudi society. My students often used the word āniggerā to describe black people. Even dark-skinned Arabs were considered inferior to their lighter-skinned cousins. I was living in the worldās most avowedly Muslim country, yet I found it anything
3864:
Hello all, I have taken liberty to organise the article better (nothing new has been added however; it was just a quick tidy up so that the article can be read better - it was previously a bit of a eye sore). If anyone has any feedback or dispute we sort it out here. Cheerio.
2442:... All guaranteed to infuriate any good Muslim. But if these statements are true, we at least we owe it to Husain to explain why he thinks this way. Starting with `Arab "psyche" as irredeemably racist`, this is from the original writing by Husain that includes the sentence:
3184:(e) One of the sources is an opinion piece by Kenan Malik. He is a journalist, rather than a researcher, and his criticism of the report seems to be based on Ella Cockbainās views. As an opinion piece, it is not a suitable source to found the āErroneous reportingā section.
322:
4593:
Iām not clear who you are addressing here, but whoever it is, saying āif you donāt know who she is, then thatās not my problemā is not very polite, is not constructive, and is not relevant to the discussion. I know who Ms Malik is ā she is a columnist who regularly writes
4481:
Really, it's not our business to do elementary research for you; both of these people are sufficiently notable to have their own Knowledge articles. Good information is available in the first result of a google or wikipedia search (the first RESULT, not the first PAGE).
4435:
I note that these two people have been added/removed - so I've restored both in the article until it can be established who they are. Exactly who are they and why does their opinion matter? Why does Murray's opinion warrant inclusion but not Malik's (and vice versa)?
3482:
I am going to have to cut this short. I don't think I will have time to write what I want to say given the consequences of the coronavirus. It is getting too serious in my area and I am becoming extremely busy as a result. For now I will settle with this proposition:
4636:
You have not answered my point that the statement in the article doesnāt really say anything, and also mentions a person who is not connected to Quilliam. What is the information about Quilliam which our readers are supposed to take away from reading this statement?
2835:@Alfietucker thanks for looking into this. This was originally cited on BBC Newsnight in the mix of the bigger story of a spat between HO and DfE. I'm concerned the current paragraph gives the impression that there was no funding beyond 2011 hence I removed it.
1113:
It is dishonest for Husain to imply the murder was religiously motivated - even if one does want to interpret the judge's comment, it states there were also racial tensions present in the environment which Husain omites. At best this entry should be expanded NOT
3751:"The two-year study by the Home Office makes very clear that there are no grounds for asserting that Muslim or Pakistani-heritage men are disproportionately engaged in such crimes, and, citing our research, it confirmed the unreliability of the Quilliam claim"
2232:
The plaudits are flooding in: Ed Husain's The Islamist has been hailed as "terrifingly honest", "courageous" and he has been "applauded for his intellectual honesty and guts" by the likes of Martin Amis, Simon Jenkins, David Aaronovitch and Melanie Phillips.
1142:
But aside from that fact, are we to have paragraphs and paragraphs about one incident mentioned in a book because the author of the book is a co-founder of the foundation? The article is about the foundation, not the author, and not an incident in his book.
2112:
I changed the lead to slightly but have left in a sentence (rewritten) on the charges of Quilliam critics. With such a controversial topic I thought it might be good to include quotes so readers can read what the critics are saying about the foundation.
3150:
5. Hierarchy of headings I tidied up the headings, because it does not make sense to have, for instance, āCondemnation of the 2008 Gaza Warā as a subheading under āTerminologyā. This was reversed in NSSLās edit. Does anyone object to this alteration?
1595:
Ziauddin Sardar is in fact one of the Quilliam Foundation's supporters (watch the Tariq Ramadhan interview where Maajid and Ziauddin both appear) - maybe equal time should be given to those who critique it like the following links amongst a plethora of
2128:
According to various critics the group has recieved more money from the government than a "relatively unknown organisation" would merit, has "very little support in the mainstream Muslim community", and is perceived "to be toeing the government line."
1620:
structure and affiliation processes - Joe public can attend and study with them, a member is one who has been through a certain process and undertaken the party oath - none of which Ed did. Feel free to add the reference if you think it is necessary.
3252:
that they are concerned only with the section currently titled āErroneous Reporting on āMuslim rape gangsā ā, which is my point 7 . Perhaps agreement on that aspect could be reached quickly if NSSL would accept the proposal I made at my point 7(g):
1732:- Supporting Quilliam Foundation is no more a disqualification for being quoted than an opposing it (are we going to eliminate critical comments by someone for being an opponent of Quilliam?) Was Ziauddin Sardar a supporter of Quilliam Foundation
4247:
The question for Knowledge is not whether itās true, but whether the source is reliable. We cannot be the judges of ātruthā. I cannot see any connection between the sources you have linked to and the material which was added to this article. The
1690:
What did Husain achieve with any group that he mentions in his book - any position of seniority? any significant responsibility? any qualifications? Nothing - this is a fact and not POV - the entire book illustrates this point if you care to read
2486:
At that moment it dawned on me that Britain, my home, had given refuge to thousands of black Africans from Somalia and Sudan: I had seen them in their droves in Whitechapel. They prayed, had their own mosques, were free and were given government
3052:
It was an invitation, not a demand, with the aim of improving the atmosphere and making reasonable discussion easier. I have not refused to answer any questions. I think you have misunderstood my intentions. I am preparing a detailed response.
2683:
The first paragraph on the site - three and a half years later - is now different (and "About Us" has a different URL). I'll update this, but thought I would put the old text here in case anyone thinks we should note what was said back in 2010.
2951:
The second paragraph describes Majid as an atheist without any source. Majid has always described himself as a reformed / liberal Muslim. I will make the change, if anyone wants to change it back to atheist, please provide a credible source.
1878:
What do you mean intimidation? If am47 isn't a sock puppet he/she/it has nothing to worry about. If am47 is, he/she/it is violating wikipedia rules. ... And I never heard of the Quilliam Foundation before coming across a link to this article.
1559:
he defends the government's decision to ban Muslim cleric al-Qaradawi from Britain because he defends Palestinian martyrdom operations ..." (POV language. Should be replaced with "because huasin opposes lethal attacks on Israeli civilians."
631:
Dwanyewest - your comment does not make sense - can you please clarify what you mean by QF is not an Islamic organisation...which tags being removed are you unhappy about and why? which terms are you specifically referring to as weasel words?
3928:
the abbreviation in the TOC isn't mentioned in full either (I suspect for the same reason of not wanting to make the TOC an eyesore). Plus the centre is already mentioned in full in this article in that very sentence. What are your thoughts?
1922:
I've seen your efforts to promote Quilliam and it's founders - any criticism of this organisation or its founders is soon undone by your self-appointed secret police style edits! One just has to look at Ed Hussain's section to see your work!
775:
This is less an article about the foundation than a personal essay arguing against the QF's theology and politics. Regardless of whether one is personally sympathetic to the foundation, the approach in the current text seriously contradicts
2850:
Also, some additional Information and breakdown on the Home Funding is available: Home Office direct funding for Quilliam is quite clear. In 2008-09, it was Ā£665,000; in 2009-10, it was Ā£387,000; and in 2010-11, it was Ā£145,000. Source:
2360:
deceased outside the College. Some of the group were armed with knives and hammers. The group having surrounded the deceased, he was stabbed to death by Nur. Qadir was armed with a hammer and at least aimed a blow with it at the deceased.
1645:
this scholar feel free to add it - maybe you can also add why they don't want to ban inflamatory and extreme individuals like Heer Wilders (who the UK govt banned from travelling to the UK) as that is also quite relevant to this section.
1547:"Husain drifted between Islamic groups achieving little of note .... (the source for this is husain's book, The Islamist. Either a quote should be given from the book saying he achived little of note or the phrase should be deleated).
2071:
This is an encyclopedia, not an essay writing dump. Moreover, blog posts do not constitute references. I refer you to wikipedia guidelines. And, some of the editors on this page should learn basic grammar before writing in public.
413:
This is an encyclopedia, not an essay writing dump. Moreover, blog posts do not constitute references. I refer you to wikipedia guidelines. And, some of the editors on this page should learn basic grammar before writing in public.
4141:
How many sources is Knowledge gonna end up labelling as unreliable? The window seems to be shrinking every day. A story appearing in the non-mainstream press doesn't automatically mean it's not true - and this one is highly sourced.
1550:"Ziauddin Sardar questioning whether book was penned by someone in the Government of the United Kingdom .... (either equal time should be given to the several "rave reviews" the article talks about or that attack should be deleted.)
2981:
Let's start from the beginning. What are your objections with the sources provided in the article? Why did you specifically remove well cited sources? Let us come to a consensus. It would be best if we addressed these issues here.
2704:"Criticism" (which has since been reinstated by another editor) as I believe it breaches two Knowledge policiies: 1) Neither of the two sources cited, including the one currently covered by a dead link (the current "live" link is
2708:), actually mentions the think tank as far as I've been able to see (I'd be glad if another editor could quote a relevant passage from either). Without an actual mention, this paragraph is in breach of Knowledge's policy against
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Following the lead, the article starts not with a decription of the goals or statement of puropse of the organizatoin but with a section on the three founders. starting with ed husain it gives a highly antagonistic desription:
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Maybe you can highlight the "paragraphs and paragraphs" on this one incident for me please as I can only find 1 very short para on this. Maybe you can also kindly address the other responses to your arguments re:"bias". (post by
1055:"Hizb ut-Tahrir categorically denied he had ever been a member and the trial Judgeās report concluded the Newham College murder had in fact resulted from an argument over a table tennis game." This link is gived as the source:
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3. Insertion of āIt is funded by the foreign organisation, the John Templeton Foundation, which is based in the United States and which has been criticised for its pro-Christian stanceā into the lead. The source for this is
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Not disputed. What is disputed is that while Nick Cohen, Melanie Phillips, Michael Gove and David Aaronovitch all gave Husain's book good reviews, the only critic quoted is one attacking Husain. Why not quotes by others?
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Regarding your alterations: I think it is better to have the Southern Poverty Law Centre in full in the heading. If I just saw the initials in the heading, I would have to stop and think/guess which organisation this was
3714:). It needs to be included in the article for balance. Quilliam are claiming one thing, whilst an official report prove the opposite was true. They don't need to officially mention each other. I saw nothing wrong with
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Ed Hussain and Maajid Nawaz are the founders (inc. Rashad Ali) and directors of the organisation. What they say and write about in such roles is relevant to and important in an article about hte Quilliam Foundation.
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There is also question of the honesty of the edits. For example in regards to a religiously motivated murder at the college Ed Hussain was attending that shocked him into leaving the Islamist group HT, the article
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is run by a small, dedicated team of journalists providing a platform for freelance reporters and writers to produce fearless journalism not found in the mainstream media.ā So it is not a normal newspaper, but a
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proposed sentence you've given is too small, and I would like to extend it a little further with a quote from the authors itself which provides an adequate grievance of their concerns. Something to the effect of:
1779:- Are these notable sources? Anyone can start up a blog. It is far from surprising for an anti-Islamist organization to draw fire from the people it was founded to criticise. I think that might be be mentioned.
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Thanks. On the Prevent/CONTEST connection: I looked for an article on āPreventā, and the only thing I could find was the CONTEST article. I think the āPreventā in the CONTEST article must refer to the āPreventā
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I don't know whether Malik or Murray are appropriate citations in context. I haven't focused on that. But it would surprise me if Malik is allowed by the Guardian to publish stuff that is factually inaccurate.
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I agree that Nesrine Malik is not a reliable source simply because she is a Guardian columnist. However, if you look at her work, it is mostly for The Guardian; and she gets a column published every couple of
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mention Quilliam. Your statement that the āclaimsā came from the Quilliam report is your own idea. Knowledge only follows the sources. There is no justification for including your alteration in the article.
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I support your beginning this effort. The discussion you linked to includes a number of mentions of blog comments. I hope you will be able to do your work with minimal or no reliance on blogs, which are not
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Thank you for adding the Guardian report of 19 December. I hadnāt seen this. I agree that this makes the connection between the Home Office report and the Quilliam report, which was not previously evident.
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Jk54 has four reverts in 24.5 hours, and he uses blanket reverts to install his own much larger version of the article (59 kb vs 13 kb). I do not see that he got consensus anywhere for his larger version.
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The article has a section about the aims and objectives of this organisation. The starting point cites the three founders and their motivations which provides a context for the stated aims and objectives.
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The article has a section about the aims and objectives of this organisation. The starting point cites the three founders and their motivations which provides a context for the stated aims and objectives.
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At the time of the offence, there were divisions on racial and religious grounds amongst the multi-ethnic student population of the College. These tensions had been in evidence during Ramadan that year.
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My comment was aimed at the editor who toook the trouble to post a question about Malik and Murray, but couldn't be bothered to first try a simple search. Talk pages are not proxies for search engines.
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a more self-critical approach must be adopted by Muslim leaders to free communities from Westophobic ideological influences, escape social insularity and facilitate the organic growth of Western Islam.
1823:- So if something is Quilliam Foundation's or its leader's opinions do we simply quote them and leave it at that? Or do we "provides a context", and decide whether they've "achieved little of note"?
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There is no independent source saying the trial Judgeās report concluded the Newham College murder had in fact resulted from an argument over a table tennis game, just an editor's say so. (which is
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2. Insertion of āThe organisation has been condemned by researchers for spreading deliberate misinformation and pseudoscience.ā into the lead. The source for this is a reference to the article in
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or two which says anything different, then there's no reason to remove it. Even if such sources materialise, I would suggest amending the paragraph accordingly rather than deleting it altogether.
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The Quilliam Foundationās report āGroup Based Child Sexual Exploitation ā Dissecting Grooming Gangsā has been criticised for poor methodology; with authors Ella Cockbain and Waqas Tufail saying
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Apologies for being slow on the reply. Real life got in the way. I will consult both of your answers and hopefully find a remedy. Will reply pretty soon after examining both arguments/claims.
1793:- OK, we'll include that that cite that says HT says he was not a member. (Note: In a vanguard party like HT you can be an activist and heavily involved without rising to the level of member.)
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If you wish to expand on/justify Husain's racist generalisations about Arabs feel free to do so and please cite the references - however do note that his comments are not POV, they are factual
1098:"Hizb ut-Tahrir categorically denied he had ever been a member and the trial Judgeās report concluded the Newham College murder had in fact resulted from an argument over a table tennis game"
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to the article. This would reinstate all my alterations, and delete the section āErroneous reportingā etc. I would then add your wording in the Criticism section. Do you agree to this?
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OK then I believe it falls under the criteria of self published work and plus you used reference 48 as a reference I believe that using wikipedia itself as a reference is not allowed.
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I disagree - Ed Husain has little if any credibility other than the Quilliam Foundation project. All his contributions in the media and general works revolve around this organisation.
1556:"Husain describes the Arab "psyche" as irredeemably racist ... (husain uses the phrase 'irredeemably racist' after a harrowing description of racism he encountered in Saudi Arabia)
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are declaring that "after failing his GCSEs Husain drifted between Islamic groups achieving little of note," not some notable source. Original Research is not allowed in Wikip.
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Over half of the article details what the organisation is about, detailing its founders, objectives, ideology and advisors. What is missing that you think should be included?
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by Ella Cockbain, one of the authors of the Guardian article which mentions Quilliam. If that's reliably sourced - and it is - then we shouldn't just discount Byline outright.
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Can you please split your concerns into manageable headings? This is far too much to read and I would like to address each point on it's own without messing this talk page up.
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Someone else added the bit about Douglas Murray. I changed it because the wording was wrong ā Mr Murray did not mention McCarthyism. I deleted the bit about Ms Malikās views.
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Adding a POV tag needs additional comments to indicate where POV exists in the article so it can be discussed - if you cannot highlight this please remove POV. Thank you.
3487:. I will at some point be back to discuss this once things have calmed down with respect to the virus. However I hope you will accept this compromise for the time being.
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from Britain because Qaradawi defends Islamic suicide attacks on civilians and Husian attacks multiculturalism, declaring there to be too many immigrants in the country.
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I suppose my response is that in articles on controvercial subjects in wikipedia (like this) sources should be given. There was no source for that claim. I'll add it. --
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particular connection to Quilliam). It is undue to have so many comments on one matter, so I kept the views of the more well-known and politically significant person.
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Many, if not most, of the comments in the article are about people ā particularly Ed Husain. Yes, he is a founder of Quilliam, but there's already an article on him ā
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Keep in mind your demand has to critically address the peer reviewed source with another source disputing it and must not be your own reasoning as this would violate
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For Husain to use this event and allege otherwise for his personal ends is questionable - it is for the reader to decide what to believe from these conflicting facts.
1672:- The POV tag does not mean there is unanimous agreement that the article is POV. If there was it would have been changed and there wouldn't have been a revert war.
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in focusing on what proponents say are excellent features, nor on what opponents say are horrors. Some recent text (not sure about the proposed edit) had the word
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ONE SIMPLY NEEDS TO LOOK AT THE PLETHORA OF SITES THAT PROVIDE CRITIQUE - NON-ISLAMISTS INCLUDING SALAFITES/SUFIS ETC ARE ON THERE - AGAIN RESEARCH BEFORE WRITING
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Hello! I'm adding this to the talk page to provide a space for discussion on new edits made to the "funding" section of the article. The edits were as follows:
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Ah - I missed that (sorry, lack of sleep!). Fair enough, the final citation certainly binds it all together. I'll put in the live link (if you haven't already).
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3640:. Also, it was agreed in the previous discussion (above) not to use the ā84%ā statistic, as this would draw attention to what seems to be a dubious figure.
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3141:. On the Knowledge page regarding the reliability of sources, Medium is described as a āblog hosting serviceā which is considered āgenerally unreliable.ā
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If its an article about Quilliam Foundation and Ed H is talking that's one thing. If its just Ed H talking no mention of Quilliam , that's different. --
3143:] Either a better source should be provided for this, or it should be deleted from the article, including from the āFundingā section of the article.
2327:.... the trial Judgeās report concluded the Newham College murder had in fact resulted from an argument over a table tennis game. i.e. not Islam or HT.
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If there are any editors or anyone who can clear up the references section as I feel its hard to read and needs a clean up to meet wikipedia standards.
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for any matter of fact. At most they testify to the views of the writers, in case any of the writers are notable in this context. Your desire to avoid
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Am47 Calling someone a stooge is a personal attack, which is not allowed. Changing section titles other people have written - such as such as changing
3187:(f) The third source, Eastern Eye, is based on information from Ella Cockbain, so it does not constitute independent criticism of Quilliamās report.
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Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG). The work is being conducted for DfE by The Quilliam Foundation, an independent think-tank."
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authors' paper. I would also advise not to place in ad hominem's attacking the authors as this is not constructive and does not address their work.
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saying that the Department for Education "contributed Ā£120,000 just shortly after the Home Office refused to continue its funding in March 2011".
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6. Dispute with Southern Poverty Law Centre I added a section on this, which was deleted in NSSLās edit. Does anyone object to this? If so, why?
2220:"On blogs and among many Muslims", co-founder Ed Husain "has been condemned as a government stooge, an MI5 agent" and even an apostate from Islam.
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he reviewed Husain's book? (no. it didn't exist then.) The issue is whether the critic is notable. Operating a blog does not make someone notable.
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3077:. The reason why I thought you were a vandal was because you removed information and didn't provide a reference to say what was wrong with the
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Removed from the article comments about Ed Husain or other founders that do not give any substantive information on the Quilliam Foundation. --
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argues represents a desire to impose a given interpretation of Islam on society.ā I consider that this is more neutral than NSSLās version.
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Those from the Quilliam Foundation (ie ed husain and majid nawaz) or pro-Quilliam who dislike critique, please stop vandalising the article.
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I believe I have answered your question satisfactorily, and I am intending to delete the comments by Nesrine Malik, as undue and irrelevant.
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If I misinterpreted "who are these people", then in a spirit of AGF I apologise. I have no position on the appropriateness of the citations.
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could we please have your input? Consensus is far from over but given the circumstances I cannot spend too much time right now on Knowledge.
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section in the article with no apparent difference in their subject matter. Both attack Quilliam Foundation and especially its founders. The
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You seem to remove tags willy nilly is the Quilliam Foundation not a Islamic organisation and was not launched this year so why removed it.
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Rather than an encylopedic article about a think-tank, the page is an illiterate essay arguing against the think-tank's theological tenets
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You're nothing but a Quilliam Stooge Boogalouie-you should make your connections clear and stop pretending you're nothing to do with them.
928:... to the point of slander. Some of the quotes do not appear in the cite given. I have tagged it and tried to make a few improvements. --
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Rather than an encylopedic article about a think-tank, the page is an illiterate essay arguing against the think-tank's theological tenets
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Quilliam Foundation they do not belong in this article, or at best they might be summarized in a subsection criticism of founders. --
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Interesting following the discussion - boogalouie can't respond to javk's points so get him banned! Reminds me of nazi tactics!Ā :)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:Jk54_reported_by_BoogaLouie_.28Result:_24_hours.29
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Only examples from two paras are brought yet dozens of paras have been deleted - it leads one to question neutrality. (post by jk54)
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bouncing back to a propoganda piece for the organisation as Mualliq would like, with all unfavourable quotes and points edited out.
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Husain's non-membership of HT is factual - Taji Mustafa Spokesman of Hizb Tahrir UK on CNN stated Ed Husain had never been a member
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But who says it's a fact? You do. Knowledge is based on what notable sources say is true, not what editors believe to be true. --
1513:). Try to reach agreement on any disputed issues. If you can't find any wording you agree on for the article, follow the steps of
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It needs balance, and needs to include credible and significant criticism, as this group is rejected as heterodox by most Muslims
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I have removed the term neocon when labelling nick cohen and david aaronovitch. these two are members of the left not the right
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Explain to me why the Home Office Report, which doesn't mention Quilliam, is relevant to this article, which is about Quilliam.
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and the trial Judgeās report concluded the Newham College murder had in fact resulted from an argument over a table tennis game.
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Anything she has published in The Guardian is (more-or-less) automatically RS; that has all been subjected to editorial review.
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1694:- Well he did learn arabic and teach in Syria and Saudi Arabia. Some might think that is of note. But in any case this is your
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But, as I said, I am doubtful about including the 2nd sentence, because it gives publicity to a possibly dubious statistic.
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You're making excellent well-founded changes to many contentious articles. Checking out the sources is indeed time consuming.
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Am47 sound a bit like jk54, the last editor with no homepage and highly contentious edits. Are you a sock puppet for jk54? --
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or other tool because one or more other projects use this class. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the
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doesnāt make her opinions important. And note that her views, as currently stated in the article, were not published in the
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satisfactorily. On the other points: I did once come across a very serious misstatement of fact in an opinion piece in the
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I wasn't aware it was deprecated and the only reason I used it was for a direct quote from Cage. Also, persist? When else?
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Many of the African women lived in an area of Jeddah known as Karantina, a slum full of poverty, prostitution and disease.
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story does not mention the John Templeton Foundation, so it is unclear what material you want to support with this source.
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https://www.quilliaminternational.com/shop/e-publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-dissecting-grooming-gangs/
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maybe accused of POV as your citation shows other elements existed but not that they led to or even contributed to death.
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However the link goes to a statement on "Minimum terms set for young offenders by the Lord Chief Justice" which says this:
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This article has been expanded - please list below any points of disagreement so it can be edited in a sensible manner.
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No need to apologise. I should mention that the result of the discussion on the reliable sources page seems to be that
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3173:(d) The article āFailing victims, fuelling hate: challenging the harms of the āMuslim grooming gangsā is published in
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http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Quilliam_Foundation#This_article_currently_reads_like_a_hacket_job_on_Quilliam_Foundation
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edits and have restored them. Sweet, I think you need to read the policies you're quoting, you're misapplying them.
3160:(a) The report in question is actually called āGroup Based Child Sexual Exploitation ā Dissecting Grooming Gangsā.
251:-related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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source to reinforce and provide further detail for this. So for now I'm removing these sentences from the article.
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I feel some of the sources are unreliable as they are from blogs and does not fit the reliable sources criteria
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I'm not particularly a fan of Malik; but if you don't know who she is, then that's not my problem. She's notable.
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regarding a murder of a student at Newham College that turned Husain away from Hizb ut-Tahrir. The article says:
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Is intimidation the only way you get your views across Boogalouie? Are you working for the Quilliam Foundation???
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So the heading is misleading, in that it suggests Quilliam is referring to this matter is sensationalist terms.
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maybe equal time should be given to those who critique it like the following links amongst a plethora of others:
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Further comments to Unreal7: Your addition about the Home Office report is Original Research and Synthesis. See
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A better re-write may be something along the lines of "Quilliam has also received funding from the conservative
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That source should be fine, but Medium isn't (it has no editorial oversight). You can add the Byline Times in.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Quilliam_Foundation&action=submit#strongly_biased_reverts_byjk54
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I have restored some items that were removed from the Talk page by Jk54. Do not modify others' comments! (See
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Does 'British Muslims for Democracy'actually refer to 'British Muslims for Secular Democracy' - these guys?
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is a reliable source. Also, since that article does not mention Quilliam, I donāt see that it is relevant.
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Because the claims that South Asians were disproportionately involved came from that 2017 Quilliam report.
3167:(b) The first sentence of this refers to āresearchersā plural in the same misleading way as in the lead.
1679:- The section about what the organization is created to do - its aims and objectives - ought to come first.
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by Ms Malik. The quotation by Ms Malik which has been used in this article is, in any event, not from the
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I've tried, without success, to find another reliable source for this story. What I did find, though, was
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http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/book_extracts/article1685726.ece
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http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/book_extracts/article1685726.ece
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If you can't stop flaming and being respectful to other members you should not post anything in my view.
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report clearly states the murderer's brother Qadir stabbed the victim over a table tennis game argument.
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for freelance reporters. This seems to me to be the opposite of a publication with editorial oversight.
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Legal / Professional - Minimum Terms - Minimum terms set for young offenders by the Lord Chief Justice
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3019:.@NarSakSasLee: You must not refer to another editor's good-faith edits as vandalismāsee Knowledge's
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2398:) 20:21, 10 April 2009 (UTC) Please explain why it should be removed - is it incorrectly referenced?
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Sorry, I donāt understand your point. I donāt know what you mean by saying the Cockbain article in
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Most of Quilliam views are expressed by Hussain - if you strip that out what remains of Quilliam?
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/19/home-office-report-grooming-gangs-not-muslim
3400:. I will be posting a shortened version with a few references as to why I disagree with you here.
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support factual claims, other than "so and so (i.e. the author of the opinion) thinks so and so.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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It is not POV that Qardawi condones martydom operations as that is what they are in his opinion.
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TLDR is an essay, not a policy or a guideline. I will read what you post, however long it is.
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would appreciate it if you could help with moderating the discussion between me and Sweet6970.
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MUSTAFA: Ed Husain was never a member of Hizb-ut-Tahrir. We need to have our facts very clear.
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Even those who gave rave reviews (eg Melanie Philips) have begun condemning the organisation.
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http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmhansrd/cm110315/halltext/110315h0001.htm
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1028:- Maajid Nawaz, Mahboob 'Ed' Hussain and Rashaad Ali." (I believe Hussain says he resigned)
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explanation and a quote from the authors is adequate enough? This seems a good compromise.
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thing is though, how do we know these positions the think tank holds are notable? Is there
2445:"The racist reality of the Arab psyche would never accept black and white people as equal."
2093:
Can you provide specific references please - talking about "essay writing" is not helpful.
2049:
is laudable. I'm sure that people are standing by to respond to whatever you come up with.
1949:
clear and balanced story. That could take a good deal of work, but is a worthwhile effort.
1741:
ZIAUDDIN IS A WELL KNOWN AUTHOR AND CRITIC - PLEASE RESEARCH BEFORE YOU MAKE YOUR COMMENTS
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Thank you - I've also noted your very calm and rational approach to contentious articles.
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The report does not say the murder was about table tennis. it describes the murder thusly:
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I've deleted much that was only about Ed Husain rather than Quilliam Foundation itself. --
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it would be better if that heading was changed to āClaim by Southern Poverty Law Centerā.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_316#Byline_Times
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coverage in the mainstream media? This needs to be reliably sourced if that's the case.
2419:
http://en.wikipedia.org/Quilliam_Foundation#Mohammed_.E2.80.9CEd.E2.80.9D_Mahboob_Husain
2322:
http://en.wikipedia.org/Quilliam_Foundation#Mohammed_.E2.80.9CEd.E2.80.9D_Mahboob_Husain
2190:
The Quilliam Foundation's critics have included organizations and personalities such as
1798:
VERY MAGNANIMANOUS OF YOU TO ALLOW US TO CONTRIBUTE THIS POINT NOW YOU HAVE NO RESPONSE
1031:"after failing his GCSEs Husain drifted between Islamic groups achieving little of note"
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for "pussyfooting around" with extremists, he defends the government's decision to ban
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Nowhere in the article does a quote about the "plaudits" that "are flooding in" appear.
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THIS IS NOT ORIGINAL RESEARCH BUT A FACT AS PREVIOUSLY STATED AND CORRECTLY REFERENCED
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1553:"Hizb ut-Tahrir categorically denied he had ever been a member ... (no source is given)
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January 20, 2009 Government gives Ā£1m to anti-extremist think-tank Quilliam Foundation
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I suggest that the Knowledge mention of the Quilliam and Cockbain reports should be:'
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I am formulating a response to this. But since it's too big I don't want to violate
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Ed Husain Justifies U.K.'s Qaradawi Visa Denial - MPACUKĀ :: Muslim Discussion Forum
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am not optimistic that we will be able to have a reasoned discussion on this page.
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but I found this discussion in the archives of the Reliable sources noticeboard.
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Anything more would give undue weight to this report and the criticism of it.
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during an argument about table tennis in the Student Common Room at the College."
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2262:. This is an article on an organization. If the comments are about people and
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Why do you persist in adding material from sources assessed to be unreliable?
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edits by jk54 are not reliably sourced (blogs by non-notable persons are not
4474:
4362:, and I donāt know what is proposed to be said in this article on Quilliam.
3426:
Just an update I'm still formulating a response. I apologise for the delay.
2507:
We were the brothers. Madeleine Bunting. The Guardian, Saturday 12 May 2007
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I'm going to make changes in the article to correct problems I outlined in
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Feel free to make specfiic suggestions as to which sections need changes.
2569:
The Orwell Prize | The Islamist - the first chapter of Ed Husain's account
3842:
A new Home Office report admits grooming gangs are not a āMuslim problem'
1024:"ex-activists expelled from the UK branch of the Islamic political party
2183:
section takes up about 2/3s of the article, it's dozens of lines long.
1184:
yes the report says he "sustained a small stab wound in his left arm ...
467:
There is too much criticsm, i want to know more about the actual group
3895:
3557:
but I will offer generic platitudes such as that content should not be
2637:
Lack of reliable sources for the "Objectives" and "Supporters" sections
2418:
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is not true, and Husain is not making stuff up as the editor implies.
2321:
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is āreliably sourcedā. And the question in this discussion is whether
3229:
meaningfully be discussed together, put them in one (brief!) section.
1729:
Ziauddin Sardar is in fact one of the Quilliam Foundation's supporters
4113:
https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources
3996:
Thanks. Iāll change the heading in the Maajid Nawaz article. Cheers.
3138:
2352:
mention religious tensions, not just table tennis, i.e. the editor's
1825:
What we can do is say "what he believes to be martydom operations" --
1535:
This article currently reads like a hacket job on Quilliam Foundation
3887:
Hallo again. Happy New Year ā or at least, better than 2020, I hope!
3636:. The onus is on you to justify the inclusion of this material, per
2705:
4197:
As I said, the article is sourced - here are three of said sources
3538:
Yes. But as I've stated above, this is only a temporary consensus.
2225:
So you go to the link about "On blogs and among many Muslims... ",
1631:
MUSTAFA: That Ed Husain was a member of Hizb-ut-Tahrir? Absolutely.
896:
section rather than allow such blatant abuse by such individuals.
219:
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3001:
So, before we start, I invite you to withdraw your allegations.
2558:
Ed Husain: You Ask The Questions - People, News - The Independent
2423:
Husain describes the Arab "psyche" as irredeemably racist, cites
4451:
Seriously? You edit Knowledge, but you can't do a simple search?
2481:
I had never expected to see such naked poverty in Saudi Arabia.
4459:
4350:
was used with specific attribution in the article in question:
4166:
Hmm. That ANI discussion is all over the place for my liking.
3925:
3710:
This mentions the Quilliam Report and the Home Office Report (
2428:
705:
Plus some of these so called references are forums. Its under
15:
1584:
Your POV tag is debatable as your examples don't support it:
1071:
indicating that much more than table tennis was involved. --
159:
3157:
7. The section āErroneous Reporting on āMuslim rape gangs"
1669:
Your POV tag is debatable as your examples don't support it
1592:
govt agenda to achieve fame, money etc that is however POV.
881:
What a joke. Could these guys be any more neoconservative?
3737:
I've added in the following section since it's relevant:
2899:
I feel as though the wording of this may not conform with
2605:
Bishop right to tackle no-go area in our minds - Telegraph
1684:
THAT MAY BE YOUR PERSONAL OPINION TO WHICH YOU'RE ENTITLED
4222:
of Byline's website - and some of the times they're been
4274:
From the discussion on the Reliable sources noticeboard:
2714:
synthesis of published material that advances a position
1991:- is also not allowed. Make your own section heading. --
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2619:
This edit war needs to stop I suggest the dispute goes
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4798:
Low-importance Politics of the United Kingdom articles
1635:
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0705/04/cnr.02.html
924:
This article may be biased against Quilliam Foundation
4471:
Douglas Murray is a conservative writer and activist.
3968:
I'm not too bothered by it. But sure I'll change it.
3894:
I have added a link from āPreventā to the article on
333:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
247:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
106:
Knowledge:WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom
92:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
3839:Ella Cockbain; Waqas Tufail (December 19th, 2020).
1187:
hat occurred during an argument about table tennis"
142:
109:
Template:WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom
4174:Can you summarise why it's not reliable? And also
2364:http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/145_584.htm
2362:(from link gived as the source of Judge's report:
2159:Example of bias and disorganization in the article
1285:Knowledge:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring
1089:http://westminsterjournal.com/content/view/123/75/
1057:http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/145_584.htm
367:This article has not yet received a rating on the
3671:You have agreed that the Home Office report does
2531:
2529:
2527:
2525:
1250:At best this entry should be expanded NOT deleted
4475:https://en.wikipedia.org/Douglas_Murray_(author)
4465:https://www.theguardian.com/profile/nesrinemalik
3017:User talk:Doug Weller#Require help with a vandal
2578:
2576:
4793:C-Class Politics of the United Kingdom articles
4606:is regarded as a reliable source for news does
3749:, Cockbain and Tufail wrote of the report that
2536:All mod cons | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
2320:Original research in one fo the first sections
1771:http://www.islamic-considerations.blogspot.com/
1607:http://www.islamic-considerations.blogspot.com/
2229:, and the first lines of that article are:
1539:This is why I am going to tag the article POV
4506:is a well known political figure and author.
4262:The āAboutā section of the website starts:'
8:
3206:I have no dispute with the other sections.
2646:of these objectives in the mainstream media?
2699:William/Abdullah Quilliam under "Criticism"
1252:- we will have a very long section about --
4602:. That doesnāt make her notable. That the
2227:Interview: Ed Husain. We were the brothers
298:
193:
139:
89:WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom
47:
3898:. I trust you have no objection to this.
2460:He compares Muslim poverty in KSA to UK.
1768:http://traditionalislamism.wordpress.com/
1602:http://traditionalislamism.wordpress.com/
4823:Unknown-importance organization articles
2947:Description of Majid Nawaz as an atheist
2796:Department of Education payment May 2011
2427:as his hero, criticises the director of
835:This article currently reads like a plug
4610:make their opinion pieces RS, and does
3832:
2800:A newly registered editor today posted
2499:
2138:
1035:This is just scratching the surface. --
300:
195:
112:Politics of the United Kingdom articles
49:
19:
4460:https://en.wikipedia.org/Nesrine_Malik
4058:
3583:Alterations now made as agreed above.
2716:. Have I misunderstood anything here?
1191:this event is causative of the murder.
177:
4808:Low-importance Islam-related articles
7:
4183:can. Succinct answers are the best.
4127:reliable. So it should not be used.
3319:you're views would be welcome too.
2064:
1774:http://www.abu-ibrahim.blogspot.com/
1612:http://www.abu-ibrahim.blogspot.com/
1193:Where does the report say this??? --
755:http://www.bmsd.org.uk/contactus.asp
327:This article is within the scope of
241:This article is within the scope of
86:This article is within the scope of
3114:Objections to edits by NarSakSasLee
2584:Critique of the Quilliam Foundation
347:Knowledge:WikiProject Organizations
38:It is of interest to the following
4828:WikiProject Organizations articles
3860:Better Organisation of the Article
2615:This edit war needs to be resolved
2547:How a British jihadi saw the light
408:
350:Template:WikiProject Organizations
14:
4719:Thank you for the clarification.
1628:AMANPOUR: So you're denying that?
4431:Douglas Murray and Nesrine Malik
3851:. Retrieved December 19th, 2020.
1439:
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4456:Nesrine Malike is a journalist.
2919:) 19:07, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
2901:Knowledge:Neutral point of view
281:This article has been rated as
126:This article has been rated as
4803:C-Class Islam-related articles
3565:and that is not desirable per
1504:Knowledge:Talk page guidelines
1404:Previous version reverted to:
1008:strongly biased reverts byjk54
766:00:15, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
401:20:27, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
103:Politics of the United Kingdom
94:Politics of the United Kingdom
59:Politics of the United Kingdom
1:
4818:C-Class organization articles
4754:I have now made this change.
4415:22:17, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
4390:17:27, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
3822:13:26, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
3812:No problem Sweet, take care.
3795:10:38, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
3768:23:41, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
3732:23:26, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
3686:14:02, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
3667:12:06, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
3650:11:44, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
3624:14:03, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
2886:New Additions Under "Funding"
1989:BoogaLouie - Quilliam Stooge?
1841:BoogaLouie - Quilliam Stooge?
1527:14:35, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
1497:19:37, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
1132:blow with it at the deceased.
1069:blow with it at the deceased.
861:13:15, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
802:01:45, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
720:14:53, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
658:then be reviewed. Thank you.
341:and see a list of open tasks.
255:and see a list of open tasks.
100:and see a list of open tasks.
4372:20:23, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
4358:article doesnāt mention the
4352:Great Barrington Declaration
4328:17:54, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
4307:13:50, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
4236:01:21, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
4214:15:48, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
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917:01:41, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
828:03:55, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
4354:. But as I said above, the
4006:10:47, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
3992:22:39, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
3978:22:38, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
3960:21:38, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
3939:20:27, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
3908:17:12, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
3875:15:31, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
2895:argue against LGBT equality
891:01:29, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
459:22:20, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
261:Knowledge:WikiProject Islam
4844:
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2408:19:45, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
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1811:22:39, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
1755:22:48, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
1720:21:45, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
1248:If we do as you suggest -
430:21:06, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
369:project's importance scale
287:project's importance scale
264:Template:WikiProject Islam
132:project's importance scale
4360:John Templeton Foundation
4119:The general view is that
3224:That is a valid concern:
2880:19:48, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
2864:12:24, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
2845:12:24, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
2830:21:46, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
2316:Original research problem
2311:15:14, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
2103:15:12, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
1943:23:06, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
1889:19:14, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
1870:18:59, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
1855:17:31, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
1835:17:25, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
1658:15:24, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
1570:19:51, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
1274:edit warning and blocking
1095:The quote you dispute is:
741:19:58, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
701:19:56, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
533:17:50, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
366:
330:WikiProject Organizations
315:
280:
213:
167:
138:
125:
74:
46:
4224:covered by other outlets
2661:04:22, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
1166:accurate. (post by jk54)
668:20:43, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
653:20:11, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
627:22:21, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
608:22:04, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
583:17:43, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
558:14:04, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
508:22:03, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
483:17:19, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
3982:It's now been changed.
3021:definition of that term
2448:What else does he say?
2681:
2666:Dead/out of date links
267:Islam-related articles
168:This article has been
164:
28:This article is rated
2673:
1515:WP:Dispute resolution
1020:and may be libelous
353:organization articles
163:
4080:unreliable as well?
3281:Jill Dando Institute
3079:Jill Dando Institute
2644:significant coverage
1696:WP:Original Research
771:major article issues
2386:Part of sentence -
2216:Ihtisham Hibatullah
1306:Quilliam Foundation
170:automatically rated
4016:Unreliable sources
3603:Home Office report
3015:I noticed this at
2909:Bradley Foundation
2813:this archived page
2425:Mohandas K. Gandhi
2417:from the article:
2348:the Judges report
2200:Muslim Brotherhood
1447:ā for a period of
1298:(Result: 24 hours)
725:References cleanup
165:
34:content assessment
4218:Also, here's the
4111:is not listed at
2943:
2926:comment added by
2710:original research
2204:Inayat Bunglawala
2179:lines long. The
2078:comment added by
2047:original research
1929:comment added by
1487:comment added by
1283:Coppied from the
982:
965:comment added by
920:
903:comment added by
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814:comment added by
610:
594:comment added by
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569:comment added by
560:
548:comment added by
535:
519:comment added by
510:
494:comment added by
485:
473:comment added by
461:
449:comment added by
420:comment added by
383:
382:
379:
378:
375:
374:
297:
296:
293:
292:
244:WikiProject Islam
192:
191:
188:
187:
184:
183:
143:More information:
4835:
4739:
4675:
4592:
4345:
4277:So to summarize:
4261:
4246:
4181:
4173:
4026:
3922:
3886:
3852:
3848:Archived Version
3845:. The Guardian.
3837:
3811:
3783:
3721:
3709:
3702:
3613:
3494:
3318:
3131:Race & Class
3088:
3051:
2980:
2942:
2920:
2671:in April 2010):
2607:
2602:
2596:
2591:
2585:
2580:
2571:
2566:
2560:
2555:
2549:
2544:
2538:
2533:
2520:
2515:
2509:
2504:
2390:- be removed. --
2186:It starts out:
2148:
2143:
2108:Editing the lead
2090:
2043:reliable sources
1945:
1499:
1443:
1410:before my edits
1396:
1369:deletedĀ contribs
1347:
1329:
1087:on May 3 2007 -
981:
959:
919:
897:
853:Richard Keatinge
830:
808:
636:Reliable sources
589:
564:
543:
514:
489:
468:
444:
432:
355:
354:
351:
348:
345:
324:
317:
316:
306:
299:
269:
268:
265:
262:
259:
238:
233:
232:
231:
222:
215:
214:
209:
201:
194:
179:
150:
140:
114:
113:
110:
107:
104:
83:
76:
75:
70:
69:
68:
63:
55:
48:
31:
25:
24:
16:
4843:
4842:
4838:
4837:
4836:
4834:
4833:
4832:
4783:
4782:
4733:
4669:
4586:
4433:
4376:Here's another
4339:
4255:
4240:
4175:
4167:
4020:
4018:
3916:
3880:
3862:
3857:
3856:
3855:
3838:
3834:
3805:
3777:
3715:
3703:
3696:
3607:
3605:
3553:avoid becoming
3488:
3312:
3082:
3045:
2974:
2972:
2949:
2921:
2888:
2798:
2701:
2668:
2639:
2617:
2612:
2611:
2610:
2603:
2599:
2592:
2588:
2581:
2574:
2567:
2563:
2556:
2552:
2545:
2541:
2534:
2523:
2516:
2512:
2505:
2501:
2415:
2384:
2344:as note above,
2318:
2284:
2252:
2218:amongst others.
2161:
2153:
2152:
2151:
2144:
2140:
2110:
2073:
2067:
2019:
1924:
1843:
1665:
1537:
1507:
1482:
1354:
1320:
1304:
1300:
1276:
1010:
960:
926:
898:
868:Aaliyah Stevens
841:Aaliyah Stevens
837:
809:
773:
751:
727:
638:
441:
415:
411:
388:
352:
349:
346:
343:
342:
266:
263:
260:
257:
256:
234:
229:
227:
207:
148:
111:
108:
105:
102:
101:
64:
61:
32:on Knowledge's
29:
12:
11:
5:
4841:
4839:
4831:
4830:
4825:
4820:
4815:
4810:
4805:
4800:
4795:
4785:
4784:
4781:
4780:
4779:
4778:
4777:
4776:
4775:
4774:
4773:
4772:
4771:
4770:
4769:
4768:
4767:
4766:
4752:
4731:
4652:
4627:
4626:
4625:
4624:
4623:
4622:
4621:
4620:
4598:pieces in the
4577:
4576:
4575:
4574:
4573:
4572:
4553:
4552:
4551:
4550:
4549:
4548:
4540:
4539:
4538:
4537:
4536:
4535:
4526:
4525:
4524:
4523:
4504:Douglas Murray
4501:
4495:
4494:
4478:
4477:
4472:
4468:
4467:
4462:
4457:
4453:
4452:
4432:
4429:
4428:
4427:
4426:
4425:
4424:
4423:
4422:
4421:
4420:
4419:
4418:
4417:
4378:Byline article
4316:
4315:
4314:
4313:
4312:
4311:
4310:
4309:
4285:
4284:
4283:
4282:
4281:
4280:
4279:
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4275:
4272:
4253:
4216:
4164:
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4160:
4159:
4158:
4157:
4156:
4155:
4154:
4017:
4014:
4013:
4012:
4011:
4010:
4009:
4008:
3966:
3965:
3964:
3963:
3962:
3949:
3945:
3911:
3910:
3892:
3888:
3861:
3858:
3854:
3853:
3831:
3830:
3826:
3825:
3824:
3802:
3801:
3800:
3799:
3798:
3797:
3757:
3756:
3755:
3754:
3735:
3734:
3693:
3692:
3691:
3690:
3689:
3688:
3604:
3601:
3600:
3599:
3598:
3597:
3596:
3595:
3535:
3534:
3533:
3532:
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3510:
3509:
3508:
3507:
3477:
3476:
3475:
3474:
3473:
3472:
3471:
3470:
3469:
3468:
3445:
3444:
3443:
3442:
3441:
3440:
3439:
3438:
3417:
3416:
3415:
3414:
3413:
3412:
3389:
3388:
3387:
3386:
3385:
3384:
3383:
3382:
3356:
3355:
3354:
3353:
3352:
3351:
3350:
3349:
3345:
3334:
3333:
3332:
3331:
3305:
3304:
3303:
3302:
3301:
3300:
3288:
3287:
3286:
3285:
3273:
3272:
3271:
3270:
3269:
3268:
3253:
3244:
3243:
3242:
3241:
3175:Race and Class
3123:
3122:
3121:
3120:
3119:
3118:
3117:
3116:
3104:
3103:
3102:
3101:
3067:
3066:
3065:
3038:
3037:
3036:
3035:
2999:
2971:
2968:
2948:
2945:
2897:
2896:
2887:
2884:
2883:
2882:
2848:
2847:
2797:
2794:
2793:
2792:
2791:
2790:
2789:
2788:
2787:
2786:
2762:Jason from nyc
2734:Jason from nyc
2700:
2697:
2677:
2667:
2664:
2647:
2638:
2635:
2616:
2613:
2609:
2608:
2597:
2586:
2572:
2561:
2550:
2539:
2521:
2510:
2498:
2497:
2493:
2447:
2443:
2421:
2414:
2413:Sensationalism
2411:
2383:
2380:
2379:
2378:
2357:
2342:
2325:
2317:
2314:
2283:
2280:
2279:
2278:
2256:
2251:
2248:
2230:
2192:Hizb ut-Tahrir
2167:section and a
2160:
2157:
2155:
2150:
2149:
2137:
2136:
2132:
2109:
2106:
2080:81.102.129.189
2066:
2063:
2062:
2061:
2018:
2015:
2014:
2013:
2012:
2011:
2010:
2009:
2008:
2007:
2006:
2005:
2004:
2003:
1970:
1969:
1968:
1967:
1966:
1965:
1964:
1963:
1962:
1961:
1920:
1909:
1907:
1906:
1905:
1904:
1903:
1902:
1894:
1893:
1892:
1891:
1873:
1872:
1842:
1839:
1838:
1837:
1824:
1822:
1816:
1815:
1814:
1813:
1795:
1794:
1792:
1786:
1785:
1781:
1780:
1777:
1765:
1760:
1759:
1758:
1757:
1738:
1737:
1731:
1725:
1724:
1723:
1722:
1704:
1703:
1698:, if not POV.
1693:
1686:
1685:
1681:
1680:
1678:
1673:
1671:
1664:
1661:
1647:
1646:
1642:
1641:
1640:
1632:
1629:
1626:
1623:
1622:
1621:
1617:
1609:
1604:
1599:
1598:
1597:
1593:
1586:
1585:
1581:
1580:
1575:
1573:
1572:
1557:
1554:
1551:
1548:
1536:
1533:
1531:
1506:
1501:
1489:212.137.70.194
1465:
1464:
1436:
1435:
1430:
1425:
1420:
1413:
1408:
1407:
1400:
1398:
1397:
1348:
1299:
1289:
1275:
1272:
1271:
1270:
1269:
1268:
1267:
1266:
1265:
1264:
1239:
1238:
1237:
1236:
1235:
1234:
1225:
1224:
1223:
1222:
1221:
1220:
1212:
1211:
1210:
1209:
1208:
1207:
1206:
1205:
1188:
1185:
1172:
1171:
1170:
1169:
1168:
1167:
1158:
1157:
1156:
1155:
1137:
1136:
1135:
1134:
1123:
1121:
1120:
1116:
1115:
1106:
1105:
1100:
1099:
1096:
1092:
1091:
1062:
1053:
1052:
1033:
1032:
1029:
1026:Hizb ut-Tahrir
1009:
1006:
1005:
1004:
1003:
1002:
1001:
1000:
942:
925:
922:
836:
833:
772:
769:
750:
747:
745:
726:
723:
637:
634:
613:
475:86.130.187.236
440:
437:
435:
422:81.102.129.189
410:
407:
405:
387:
384:
381:
380:
377:
376:
373:
372:
365:
359:
358:
356:
339:the discussion
325:
313:
312:
307:
295:
294:
291:
290:
283:Low-importance
279:
273:
272:
270:
253:the discussion
240:
239:
223:
211:
210:
208:Lowāimportance
202:
190:
189:
186:
185:
182:
181:
166:
156:
155:
153:
151:
145:
144:
136:
135:
128:Low-importance
124:
118:
117:
115:
98:the discussion
84:
72:
71:
62:Lowāimportance
56:
44:
43:
37:
26:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
4840:
4829:
4826:
4824:
4821:
4819:
4816:
4814:
4811:
4809:
4806:
4804:
4801:
4799:
4796:
4794:
4791:
4790:
4788:
4765:
4761:
4757:
4753:
4751:
4747:
4743:
4737:
4732:
4730:
4726:
4722:
4718:
4717:
4716:
4712:
4708:
4704:
4703:
4702:
4698:
4694:
4690:
4686:
4685:
4681:ā but it was
4680:
4673:
4668:
4667:
4666:
4662:
4658:
4653:
4650:
4649:
4648:
4644:
4640:
4635:
4634:
4633:
4632:
4631:
4630:
4629:
4628:
4618:
4613:
4609:
4605:
4601:
4597:
4590:
4585:
4584:
4583:
4582:
4581:
4580:
4579:
4578:
4571:
4567:
4563:
4559:
4558:
4557:
4556:
4555:
4554:
4546:
4545:
4544:
4543:
4542:
4541:
4532:
4531:
4530:
4529:
4528:
4527:
4522:
4518:
4514:
4509:
4508:Nesrine Malik
4505:
4502:
4499:
4498:
4497:
4496:
4493:
4489:
4485:
4480:
4479:
4476:
4473:
4470:
4469:
4466:
4463:
4461:
4458:
4455:
4454:
4450:
4449:
4448:
4447:
4443:
4439:
4430:
4416:
4412:
4408:
4404:
4401:
4397:
4393:
4392:
4391:
4387:
4383:
4379:
4375:
4374:
4373:
4369:
4365:
4361:
4357:
4353:
4349:
4343:
4338:
4337:
4336:
4335:
4334:
4333:
4332:
4331:
4330:
4329:
4325:
4321:
4308:
4304:
4300:
4297:
4296:
4295:
4294:
4293:
4292:
4291:
4290:
4289:
4276:
4273:
4270:
4265:
4259:
4254:
4251:
4244:
4239:
4238:
4237:
4233:
4229:
4225:
4221:
4220:About section
4217:
4215:
4211:
4207:
4203:
4201:
4199:
4196:
4195:
4194:
4190:
4186:
4179:
4171:
4165:
4153:
4149:
4145:
4140:
4139:
4138:
4134:
4130:
4126:
4122:
4118:
4114:
4110:
4107:
4106:
4105:
4101:
4097:
4093:
4092:
4091:
4087:
4083:
4079:
4075:
4074:
4073:
4069:
4065:
4060:
4057:
4056:
4055:
4051:
4047:
4043:
4042:
4041:
4040:
4039:
4038:
4034:
4030:
4024:
4015:
4007:
4003:
3999:
3995:
3994:
3993:
3989:
3985:
3981:
3980:
3979:
3975:
3971:
3967:
3961:
3957:
3953:
3950:
3946:
3942:
3941:
3940:
3936:
3932:
3927:
3920:
3915:
3914:
3913:
3912:
3909:
3905:
3901:
3897:
3893:
3889:
3884:
3879:
3878:
3877:
3876:
3872:
3868:
3859:
3850:
3849:
3844:
3843:
3836:
3833:
3829:
3823:
3819:
3815:
3809:
3804:
3803:
3796:
3792:
3788:
3781:
3776:
3775:
3774:
3773:
3772:
3771:
3770:
3769:
3765:
3761:
3752:
3748:
3747:
3742:
3741:
3740:
3739:
3738:
3733:
3729:
3725:
3719:
3713:
3707:
3700:
3695:
3694:
3687:
3683:
3679:
3674:
3670:
3669:
3668:
3664:
3660:
3656:
3655:
3654:
3653:
3652:
3651:
3647:
3643:
3639:
3635:
3631:
3626:
3625:
3621:
3617:
3611:
3602:
3594:
3590:
3586:
3582:
3581:
3580:
3576:
3572:
3568:
3564:
3560:
3556:
3551:
3550:
3549:
3545:
3541:
3537:
3536:
3529:
3525:
3521:
3516:
3515:
3514:
3513:
3512:
3511:
3506:
3502:
3498:
3492:
3486:
3481:
3480:
3479:
3478:
3467:
3463:
3459:
3455:
3454:
3453:
3452:
3451:
3450:
3449:
3448:
3447:
3446:
3437:
3433:
3429:
3425:
3424:
3423:
3422:
3421:
3420:
3419:
3418:
3411:
3407:
3403:
3399:
3395:
3394:
3393:
3392:
3391:
3390:
3381:
3377:
3373:
3369:
3364:
3363:
3362:
3361:
3360:
3359:
3358:
3357:
3346:
3342:
3341:
3340:
3339:
3338:
3337:
3336:
3335:
3330:
3326:
3322:
3316:
3309:
3308:
3307:
3306:
3298:
3294:
3293:
3292:
3291:
3290:
3289:
3282:
3277:
3276:
3275:
3274:
3267:
3263:
3259:
3254:
3250:
3249:
3248:
3247:
3246:
3245:
3240:
3236:
3232:
3227:
3223:
3222:
3221:
3217:
3213:
3209:
3208:
3207:
3204:
3203:
3199:
3195:
3191:
3188:
3185:
3182:
3180:
3176:
3171:
3168:
3165:
3163:
3158:
3155:
3152:
3148:
3147:alteration?
3144:
3142:
3140:
3134:
3132:
3127:
3115:
3112:
3111:
3110:
3109:
3108:
3107:
3106:
3105:
3100:
3096:
3092:
3086:
3080:
3076:
3072:
3068:
3064:
3060:
3056:
3049:
3044:
3043:
3042:
3041:
3040:
3039:
3034:
3030:
3026:
3022:
3018:
3014:
3013:
3012:
3008:
3004:
3000:
2996:
2995:
2994:
2993:
2989:
2985:
2978:
2969:
2967:
2966:
2962:
2958:
2953:
2946:
2944:
2941:
2937:
2933:
2929:
2928:East by South
2925:
2918:
2914:
2913:East by South
2910:
2905:
2902:
2893:
2892:
2891:
2885:
2881:
2877:
2873:
2868:
2867:
2866:
2865:
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2857:
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2827:
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2817:
2814:
2809:
2807:
2803:
2795:
2785:
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2777:
2773:
2772:
2771:
2767:
2763:
2759:
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2757:
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2735:
2730:
2729:
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2727:
2723:
2719:
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2707:
2698:
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2590:
2587:
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2559:
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2437:
2434:
2433:Muslim cleric
2430:
2426:
2420:
2412:
2410:
2409:
2405:
2401:
2400:90.209.49.104
2397:
2393:
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2373:
2369:
2365:
2361:
2355:
2351:
2347:
2343:
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2336:
2335:
2334:
2333:
2332:Two problems:
2329:
2328:
2323:
2315:
2313:
2312:
2308:
2304:
2298:
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2222:
2219:
2217:
2213:
2212:Yvonne Ridley
2209:
2205:
2201:
2197:
2193:
2187:
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2178:
2174:
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2166:
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2016:
2002:
1998:
1994:
1990:
1986:
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1877:
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1862:196.206.86.60
1859:
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1038:
1030:
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1021:
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1007:
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931:
923:
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918:
914:
910:
906:
902:
893:
892:
888:
884:
883:92.11.111.242
879:
875:
873:
869:
863:
862:
858:
854:
848:
846:
842:
834:
832:
829:
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803:
799:
796:
795:
790:
788:
783:
779:
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767:
763:
759:
758:85.211.98.243
756:
748:
746:
743:
742:
738:
734:
730:
724:
722:
721:
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713:
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609:
605:
601:
597:
593:
586:
584:
580:
576:
572:
568:
561:
559:
555:
551:
550:193.115.70.42
547:
541:
536:
534:
530:
526:
522:
518:
511:
509:
505:
501:
497:
493:
486:
484:
480:
476:
472:
465:
462:
460:
456:
452:
451:86.152.215.92
448:
438:
436:
433:
431:
427:
423:
419:
406:
403:
402:
398:
394:
385:
370:
364:
361:
360:
357:
344:Organizations
340:
336:
335:Organizations
332:
331:
326:
323:
319:
318:
314:
311:
310:Organizations
308:
305:
301:
288:
284:
278:
275:
274:
271:
254:
250:
246:
245:
237:
226:
224:
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217:
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206:
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196:
175:
171:
162:
158:
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147:
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137:
133:
129:
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120:
119:
116:
99:
95:
91:
90:
85:
82:
78:
77:
73:
60:
57:
54:
50:
45:
41:
35:
27:
23:
18:
17:
4736:NarSakSasLee
4688:
4683:
4682:
4678:
4616:
4611:
4607:
4603:
4599:
4595:
4438:NarSakSasLee
4434:
4402:
4400:Byline Times
4399:
4396:Byline Times
4395:
4356:Byline Times
4355:
4348:Byline Times
4347:
4342:NarSakSasLee
4320:NarSakSasLee
4317:
4286:
4268:
4264:Byline Times
4263:
4258:NarSakSasLee
4250:Byline Times
4249:
4185:NarSakSasLee
4124:
4121:Byline Times
4120:
4109:Byline Times
4108:
4096:NarSakSasLee
4078:Byline Times
4077:
4019:
3984:NarSakSasLee
3970:NarSakSasLee
3931:NarSakSasLee
3883:NarSakSasLee
3867:NarSakSasLee
3863:
3846:
3840:
3835:
3827:
3814:NarSakSasLee
3780:NarSakSasLee
3760:NarSakSasLee
3758:
3750:
3746:The Guardian
3744:
3736:
3724:NarSakSasLee
3672:
3627:
3606:
3562:
3540:NarSakSasLee
3497:NarSakSasLee
3484:
3428:NarSakSasLee
3402:NarSakSasLee
3366:
3321:NarSakSasLee
3296:
3212:NarSakSasLee
3205:
3192:
3189:
3186:
3183:
3172:
3169:
3166:
3159:
3156:
3153:
3149:
3145:
3135:
3128:
3124:
3113:
3091:NarSakSasLee
3075:WP:SYNTHESIS
2984:NarSakSasLee
2973:
2957:Anaverageguy
2954:
2950:
2922:āĀ Preceding
2906:
2898:
2889:
2849:
2818:
2810:
2799:
2702:
2682:
2674:
2669:
2649:
2640:
2618:
2600:
2589:
2564:
2553:
2542:
2513:
2502:
2494:
2485:
2484:
2480:
2479:
2474:
2473:
2468:
2467:
2463:
2462:
2459:
2451:
2450:
2444:
2441:
2422:
2416:
2387:
2385:
2358:
2349:
2331:
2330:
2326:
2319:
2299:
2285:
2263:
2231:
2224:
2221:
2189:
2188:
2185:
2180:
2176:
2172:
2168:
2164:
2162:
2154:
2141:
2133:
2127:
2126:
2111:
2092:
2070:
2068:
2020:
1988:
1984:
1908:
1844:
1819:
1789:
1776:
1763:
1733:
1728:
1699:
1689:
1675:
1668:
1663:Some replies
1648:
1574:
1541:
1538:
1530:
1508:
1480:
1466:
1448:
1444:
1432:4th revert:
1427:3rd revert:
1422:2nd revert:
1417:1st revert:
1412:
1409:
1399:
1389:
1383:
1377:
1371:
1365:
1359:
1294:reported by
1284:
1282:
1277:
1249:
1190:
1181:
1130:
1122:
1107:
1067:
1063:
1060:
1054:
1034:
1011:
941:
927:
894:
880:
876:
864:
849:
838:
805:
793:
786:
774:
752:
744:
731:
728:
710:
707:WP:BIGNUMBER
704:
691:
671:
656:
639:
630:
612:
587:
562:
537:
512:
487:
466:
463:
442:
434:
412:
404:
389:
328:
282:
242:
236:Islam portal
127:
87:
40:WikiProjects
4707:MrDemeanour
4672:MrDemeanour
4657:MrDemeanour
4589:MrDemeanour
4562:MrDemeanour
4484:MrDemeanour
3926:own article
3743:Writing in
3555:WP:INVOLVED
3179:Sajid Javid
2872:Alfietucker
2856:Quilliam111
2837:Quilliam111
2822:Alfietucker
2776:Alfietucker
2748:Alfietucker
2718:Alfietucker
2686:Alfietucker
2436:al-Qaradawi
2250:The problem
2196:Azam Tamimi
2181:Controversy
2175:section is
2169:Controversy
2163:There is a
2074:āPreceding
1985:Sockpuppet?
1925:āPreceding
1483:āPreceding
1016:), violate
961:āPreceding
899:āPreceding
810:āPreceding
749:Competitors
590:āPreceding
565:āPreceding
544:āPreceding
515:āPreceding
490:āPreceding
469:āPreceding
445:āPreceding
416:āPreceding
4787:Categories
4059:When else?
3828:References
2970:Objections
2806:this story
2653:MezzoMezzo
2624:Dwanyewest
2495:References
2392:BoogaLouie
2368:BoogaLouie
2288:BoogaLouie
2268:BoogaLouie
2237:BoogaLouie
2134:References
2115:BoogaLouie
2051:EdJohnston
2027:BoogaLouie
1993:BoogaLouie
1951:EdJohnston
1881:BoogaLouie
1847:BoogaLouie
1827:BoogaLouie
1803:BoogaLouie
1747:BoogaLouie
1712:BoogaLouie
1562:BoogaLouie
1519:EdJohnston
1469:BoogaLouie
1454:EdJohnston
1387:blockĀ user
1381:filterĀ log
1296:BoogaLouie
1254:BoogaLouie
1195:BoogaLouie
1145:BoogaLouie
1073:BoogaLouie
1037:BoogaLouie
987:BoogaLouie
945:BoogaLouie
930:BoogaLouie
733:Dwanyewest
712:Dwanyewest
693:Dwanyewest
645:Dwanyewest
619:Dwanyewest
180:parameter.
4756:Sweet6970
4742:Sweet6970
4721:Sweet6970
4693:Sweet6970
4639:Sweet6970
4513:Sweet6970
4407:Sweet6970
4364:Sweet6970
4299:Sweet6970
4170:Sweet6970
4129:Sweet6970
4064:Sweet6970
4029:Sweet6970
3998:Sweet6970
3952:Sweet6970
3944:strategy.
3919:Sweet6970
3900:Sweet6970
3808:Sweet6970
3787:Sweet6970
3699:Sweet6970
3678:Sweet6970
3642:Sweet6970
3616:Sweet6970
3585:Sweet6970
3567:WP:CLAIMS
3520:Sweet6970
3458:Sweet6970
3372:Sweet6970
3258:Sweet6970
3194:Sweet6970
3055:Sweet6970
3003:Sweet6970
2977:Sweet6970
2804:based on
2802:some text
2679:measures.
2260:Ed Husain
2165:Criticism
1393:blockĀ log
1292:User:Jk54
546:Funsigned
386:Sept 2009
4689:Guardian
4679:Guardian
4617:Guardian
4604:Guardian
4600:Guardian
4269:platform
3634:WP:SYNTH
3571:Johnuniq
3559:WP:UNDUE
3491:Johnuniq
3315:Johnuniq
3231:Johnuniq
3085:Johnuniq
3048:Johnuniq
3025:Johnuniq
2936:contribs
2924:unsigned
2487:housing.
2382:Proposal
2282:Proposal
2076:unsigned
1939:contribs
1927:unsigned
1485:unsigned
1449:24 hours
1363:contribs
1114:deleted.
975:contribs
963:unsigned
913:contribs
901:unsigned
824:contribs
812:unsigned
604:contribs
592:unsigned
579:contribs
567:unsigned
529:contribs
517:unsigned
504:contribs
492:unsigned
471:unsigned
447:unsigned
418:unsigned
4596:opinion
4382:Unreal7
4243:Unreal7
4228:Unreal7
4206:Unreal7
4178:Unreal7
4144:Unreal7
4082:Unreal7
4046:Unreal7
4023:Unreal7
3896:CONTEST
3718:Unreal7
3706:Unreal7
3659:Unreal7
3638:WP:ONUS
3610:Unreal7
3398:WP:TLDR
3368:Asian.ā
3226:WP:TLDR
2173:Support
1596:others:
1511:WP:TALK
1445:Blocked
1323:protect
1318:history
1051:states:
782:WP:NPOV
285:on the
130:on the
30:C-class
4403:itself
3891:about.
3563:claims
3348:claim.
3139:Medium
2621:WP:AN3
1734:before
1350:User:
1327:delete
1303:Page:
1018:WP:BLP
784:. <
778:WP:NOR
674:WP:SPS
641:WP:RSN
393:Avaya1
178:|auto=
36:scale.
4534:days.
3630:WP:OR
3071:WP:OR
2354:WP:OR
2339:WP:OR
2208:(MCB)
2017:Edits
1931:Am47
1344:views
1336:watch
1332:links
1233:jk54)
1014:WP:RS
800:: -->
798:edits
789:eland
439:Edits
258:Islam
249:Islam
205:Islam
172:by a
4760:talk
4746:talk
4725:talk
4711:talk
4697:talk
4661:talk
4643:talk
4566:talk
4517:talk
4488:talk
4442:talk
4411:talk
4386:talk
4368:talk
4324:talk
4303:talk
4232:talk
4210:talk
4189:talk
4148:talk
4133:talk
4100:talk
4086:talk
4068:talk
4050:talk
4033:talk
4002:talk
3988:talk
3974:talk
3956:talk
3935:talk
3904:talk
3871:talk
3818:talk
3791:talk
3764:talk
3728:talk
3682:talk
3663:talk
3646:talk
3620:talk
3589:talk
3575:talk
3544:talk
3524:talk
3501:talk
3462:talk
3432:talk
3406:talk
3376:talk
3325:talk
3262:talk
3235:talk
3216:talk
3198:talk
3095:talk
3073:and
3059:talk
3029:talk
3007:talk
2988:talk
2961:talk
2932:talk
2917:talk
2876:talk
2860:talk
2841:talk
2826:talk
2780:talk
2766:talk
2752:talk
2738:talk
2722:talk
2706:here
2690:talk
2657:talk
2628:talk
2453:but.
2404:talk
2396:talk
2372:talk
2366:) --
2350:does
2307:talk
2303:Jk54
2292:talk
2272:talk
2241:talk
2177:two
2119:talk
2099:talk
2095:Jk54
2084:talk
2055:talk
2031:talk
1997:talk
1955:talk
1935:talk
1885:talk
1866:talk
1851:talk
1831:talk
1807:talk
1751:talk
1716:talk
1654:talk
1650:Am47
1566:talk
1523:talk
1493:talk
1473:talk
1458:talk
1375:logs
1357:talk
1352:Jk54
1340:logs
1314:talk
1310:edit
1258:talk
1199:talk
1149:talk
1077:talk
1065:....
1041:talk
991:talk
971:talk
967:Jk54
949:talk
934:talk
909:talk
905:Jk54
887:talk
872:talk
857:talk
845:talk
820:talk
816:Jk54
794:talk
780:and
762:talk
737:talk
716:talk
697:talk
664:talk
660:Jk54
649:talk
623:talk
615:Jk54
600:talk
596:Jk54
575:talk
571:Jk54
554:talk
540:Jk54
525:talk
521:Jk54
500:talk
496:Jk54
479:talk
455:talk
426:talk
397:talk
4684:not
4612:not
4608:not
4125:not
4123:is
4076:Is
3673:not
2429:MI5
2264:not
2202:),
1987:to
1700:You
1691:it.
538:TO
363:???
277:Low
174:bot
122:Low
4789::
4762:)
4748:)
4727:)
4713:)
4699:)
4663:)
4645:)
4568:)
4519:)
4490:)
4444:)
4413:)
4388:)
4370:)
4326:)
4305:)
4234:)
4226:.
4212:)
4204:.
4191:)
4150:)
4135:)
4102:)
4088:)
4070:)
4052:)
4035:)
4004:)
3990:)
3976:)
3958:)
3937:)
3906:)
3873:)
3820:)
3793:)
3766:)
3730:)
3684:)
3665:)
3648:)
3632:,
3622:)
3591:)
3577:)
3569:.
3546:)
3526:)
3503:)
3464:)
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