Talk:Rock and roll/Archive 1

2264:

sound rock'n'roll? What about Bill Haley's early contributions, or the truly "rocking" sounds of Hank Williams' late-'40s recordings? The african-american "Jump" style (aka "R&B") that became rock was, even in the '50s, hardly different then low-level big-band from the '30s. Therefore, is Count Basie or Benny Goodman early examples of "rock and roll"? NO! I'm not saying that black people should get no credit, I'm just saying that the music form was also HEAVILY reliant on white country and folk music, so classifying it as a subgenre of Afrian-American music is erroneous. Even if you disagree with me, the fact that there's so much room for debate proves that a statement like that doesn't belong in an encyclopedia. It's not objective; you think black people started rock, I don't, so at best we can say "some people think" and "many scholars contend that" rather than stating subjective conjecture as fact. I made changes along these lines but within an hour someone changed it back exactly how it was before. This is the kind of absurdly racially-concious revisionism that creates the "US vs THEM" mentality that we are striving to move away from. Think about it: even BLUES isn't entirely a black thing - it's AMERICAN, that's what counts. For anyone who needs me to elaborate, blues came from (post-slavery) poor black Americans blending their muddled African heritage with traditional white instruments and dance steps, as well as European-American melodies and musical qualities. Therefore, BLUES comes from Black + White. JAZZ (old fashioned marching band music introduced by the French in the 19th century) comes from Black + White. And (it follows, like I said) ROCK comes from Black + White. It's obvious you can't put all the credit in one place, so spread it all over! Part of RnR's amazing cultural value is that it was never unique to one race or ANY single cultural group, but that ALL forms of popular music (country/doowop/folk/blues/jazz/pop) rapidly gravitated towards the same thing: ROCK&ROLL! African-American, European-American, it all happened at the same time and it's all the same thing!

1691:

their hair but not wear spandex are called Hairspray rock and those that wear spandex but no spray on their hair are Spandex rock? However, I doubt that such bands exist, since they all were wearing spandex and had sprayed hair. Can anyone suggest a "Hairspray rock only" or "Spandex rock only" band? Also, it is disputed if Glam rock and Hair metal are not one and the same things. Maby someone could clarify that once and for all. Few examples by how some bands sound and look: Poison (spandex + hairspray = glam rock ?, Motley Crue (spandex + hairspray + hair metal = glam rock or hair metal ?), Def Leppard (spandex + hairspray = glam rock ?, Europe (spandex + hairspray = glam rock ?) ..so bands that are "spandex only" or "hairspray only" are VERY rare or even don't exist. One + another can thus be called Glam rock or short just Glam. And those who have little stronger riffs but still wear spandex and have sprayed hairs are then called Hair metal. So basically, the rock ends where metal begins. The softest metal bands are also on the border with the hardest rock bands. It would be however interesting to discuss if there was a band that never sprayed their hairs but wore spandex and played metal. How would be they called then, Spandex metal :-) ?

1991:

included in this article. into the late seventies the term "rock and roll" was still in frequent use, and "rock" was simply an abbreviation. it's as if this was a musical genre that flourished for a few years but died in the sixties, to be replaced by "rock" music. if this were true, elvis and buddy holly would not have been venerated as demigods, but rather the leaders of a brief musical fad. i don't disagree with maybe (MAYBE) having an article contrasting the rock and roll of the 1950s' with later styles, but rock (and roll) was still too young to be divided into subgenres. ever heard of the phrase "sex drugs and rock and roll"? or did you all forget that the original "rockers" listened to what this article calls "rock and roll"? just imagine asking any rock star if he was in a rock and roll band, would he correct you to say "rock"? throughout the progression of popular music, the phrase "rock" did not replace "rock and roll" at the same time as jimi hendrix replaced elvis, the phrase emerged as an abbreviation, with nothing necessarily synchronous with the development of music, it is merely a coincidence (they even share the same infobox as "rock music"). for the love of god, could the split of this article be reconsidered?

2020:

issue further. the article(s) make it seem as if rock and roll was some brief musical movement of relatively little importance, when those bands of the late fifties are today remembered not as the leaders of a brief fad, but the originators of a musical legacy. imagine you had never heard of rock (and roll) in your life, would it make more sense to start with elvis and chuck berry, or the beatles and the rolling stones? i'm not asking for an entire merge of the articles, but perhaps this could be called "The first Wave of Rock and Roll" and a general "Rock and Roll" page for "Rock", with a bit more emphasis on what is called here "rock and roll". not to mention how many bands (motorhead, the ramones etc) have explicitly identified themselves as 'rock and roll'. it just makes a lot more sense in a lot of ways. hopefully, we can all reach some kind of consensus and make these articles a bit more logical.

1484:

of its very short mention. New Wave was given but a sentence, mislabeling it "electronic pop", and misrepresenting its period of popularity. Also, Nirvana was not the first (or even one of the first) bands to emerge from the Seattle grunge scene. Lastly, the sections were treated more as distinct, yet the goal is to represent this as the history of Rock and Roll as one supergenre, and explain (even if only shortly) where each movement grew from, instead of treaching each as a its own entity (for example, the two first paragraphs in the "Current" section differ only slightly, yet the one linking to curt cobain and the grunge movement provides more insight into the flow of the history of rock and roll.

2006:. No-one here was calling surf or the twist rockn'roll, but they're equally ancestral to the rock group stuff that became rock. Ever heard of the phrase "sex drugs and rock and roll"- as in Iain Dury late '70s pubrock? By the end of the '60s we were nostalgic enough to ask "do you believe in rock n' roll?", and to admit it's only rock n' roll but I like it, but in '63 Elvis was a fat ballad singer (if wooden doll is rock n' roll, you can keep it), we were much more likely to venerate Gene Vincent, and Hendrix was about four years in the future. The label is best kept for the original, while acknowledging its later reincarnations.... 1962:

since he has been popular from the 1960s all the way through the 70s, 80s, 90s, and now, and partly because he doesn't fit into any of the titles or subtitles in the article, I can't find a place to put him. Perhaps we should add a new one, maybe "Artists who were consistently popular" or "Rock Gods" or something of the sort... After all, most rock aficianados will rank him one of their top five or so. This could turn into a fairly large addition, considering the fact that he is obviously not the only one in that category. Please help! Mike

1672:

then a DJ for WLUP. He staged Disco Demolition Night on July 12, 1979, to occur in the middle of a double header between the White Sox and the Detroit Tigers. Fans were supposed to bring disco records to be blown up. Instead a riot ensued, the ballpark was trashed, and White Sox were forced to forfeit the second game. Fans of rock were attacking what they thought was vapid, sugar coated, and commercial. Their critics argued that they were simply racists and homophobes. In any case, disco was never quite the same.

1597:(there is, perhaps, a better title). One of the reasons is because the article showed no sign of getting smaller, and still dealt exclusively with American and British rock, barely mentioning any other country, including our likely audience, English-speaking areas like Australia. So, it's at 30k with no social impacts, and adding some info on non-US/UK rock may bring it back over the edge... Thus negating the value of the last few dozen edits. 31: 1035:. As mentioned by somebody previously these two are rather different and, while I agree Rocks roots are in Rock and Roll and that they could share an article, with the high number of links to "Rock" I reckon it would be confusing for some to be redirected to Rock and Roll without any obvious reasoning. While they could read the article and find out what is going it I really think that having an explanation at the top is the best option. 1870:

becoming very destructive to Knowledge and a counter-movement is very much needed. All other top-notch compendiums, from the Encyclopedia Brtiannica to the Talmud, understand that major topics need to be treated thoroughly in one place without sending the reader on endless trinket hunts to get a full discussion of the topic... I will be reversing the re-org in a few days barring compelling counter-reasons given here in that time.

325:". There is no denying loved the music, and that he signed and produced black and white performers, but he knew where the money was: in the white northern markets and that -- at that time -- they would more far more readily accept a white man. And this wasn't a grand integrationist scheme to promote racial tolerance by introducing Yankees to R'n'B -- his aim was to make $ 1,000,000 (pretty much the same as 2235:

Perkins/Bill Haley/Gene Vincent becoming angry bitter exiles, and THE BIG PLANE-CRASH. At the same time came the onset of the "teen-idol" craze, etc. Surf-Rock is it's own thing and whatever The Beatles resurrected (while certainly in the same vein) wasn't quite "rock'n'roll" by the old standard; so, we call it "Rock" and keep the original phrase for the originals.]

1365:. The last two need a lot of work, as they are basically just a few paragraphs from here and there thrown together, but the gaps in each show how much material was missing from this article before. I'm inclined to think that the history should be kept very brief, because it's very much unique to countries and subgenres -- 2155:

I had accessed this page in hopes of seeing some notations of a particular song: "Dance with me Henry" which had been (perhaps) the single most popular song in the heyday of Rock and roll music. Instead of containing notations on music, the article discusses "blacks" and "whites" minutely. Here are

2061:

Dallas is leading the new Post-Bands or Global music that protests rock and says it has become all it started out opposing; plus the new music promotes numerous other changes: no 3 guitars and drums, no electrical instruments, back to basics style, lyrics and melody count, and more. I am a major part

1483:

Sorry to not give specifics. Much of the vital information was removed, instead of just being pared down, including much about rock and roll's origins, Surf rock, Garage rock, and (especially) Folk. NWOBHM (the most influential metal movement since its creation, which hasn't yet ceased) was removed

1112:

have both terms merged together: "...rock & roll had a specific sound and image for only a handful of years. For most of its life, rock has been fragmented, spinning off new styles and variations every few years... ...and that's only natural for a genre that began its life as a fusion of styles."

574:

Three's a good number, but it's not really important -- the size of the box is the issue. Ten links would be fine as long as they don't make the box huge. I made it a little bigger (270 to 300) but I'm not sure it could get much wider without making the TOC difficult to read (that could be a reason

1961:

Hey, I'm fairly new here, but learning... however, I am a large fan of rock, and though I don't mean to be a pain and sound like an affronted fan, I just think that Bruce Springsteen should absolutely not be left out. I was trying to find a place to add him to the article, but I realized that partly

1690:

There is no mention of glam rock. There are also other names for it, but it is disputed if it is one and the same thing, like: Hairspray rock, Spandex rock, Glam (short for Glam rock). So what would be the difference between, for example, Hairspray rock and Spandex rock? Maby bands that put spray on

1174:

the site of a similar fusion between musical styles, albeit perhaps a bit later than Five Points, in the 1860s or 1870s? I recall a PBS documentary about the city a year or so ago...in the years immediately following the end of the Civil War, there was a lot of interaction between different groups,

1083:

None taken. My thought is this: the article is primarily about the music, not the etymology. The introductory summary (pre-TOC) should reflect the primary focus of the article. There is (has been for a long time) a section dealing with the *term* "rock and roll"; the discussion of the meanings and

254:

We loved this music, me and Carl and Hank and Jerry Lee. We weren't thinking of how much easier it is to market black music if it is played by white people and we didn't think we were taking anyone else's heritage. It was our heritage too. We didn't know any better. This all really happened, it

2338:

I deleted the British Rock n Roll section since there is no need for it, especially since there is a separate article in wiki under "British Rock n Roll". Wiki writers (who, apparently, are a large percentage British, based on the articles in wiki) are already giving Britain far too much credit for

2234:

Because "Rock and Roll" (as distinguished from the more general "Rock") ended in the late 1950s with the combined effect of Elvis joining the army, Little Richard retiring to serve God, Chuck Berry getting arrested, Johnny Cashy turning total country, Jerry Lee Lewis marrying his child cousin, Carl

1899:

Concerning the origins of rock and roll, I'd like to point out that Lieber and Stoller were writing and producing rhythm and blues (race) music for black acts in the early 1950s in Los Angeles, and then in the mid-to-late 1950s were writing music for Elvis Presley. I point this out because I think

1547:

In reading through the social impact area, I spotted this paragraph, which I am removing. I'm not really sure what the point of it is -- is it to prove that "unclassifiable, non-commercial music forms have always played"? In what way unclassifiable? The Canterbury Sound is generally considered a

1210:

There was a brief section on heavy metal's "resurgence" in the 80s (when was the first "surgence"?), which I expanded to be about hair metal. This should perhaps be removed, since hair metal is a kind of heavy metal, which has its own article (I know, heavy metal is a kind of rock (historically at

422:

That's because I copied the table code from the main page. I agree it would be better in a different format. I would love to see it as a "sidebar" or in a frame next to the Table of Contents. I messed around a bit with it and couldn't figure out how to make text flow around it or move it next to

2019:

the subject is still highly problematic, largely within the very conventions of wikipedia- "british rock and roll", i.e. the british invasion and so forth (which is a rather poor organization for an article itself, as it discusses many highly varied genres}redirects to "british rock", clouding the

1671:

The event in question is the culmination of the disco backlash, which happened at Comiskey Park in Chicago, not in New York. Furthermore, it didn't happen because hard-edged formats were beginning to develop. Disco was simply too popular for its own good. The event was the organized by Steve Dahl,

440:

On the "new articles" and other line items in the table: when updating, I've been following what seems to be the same protocol as the main page -- add new items on the left, remove the rightmost item (unless as it reaches the cliff it is still, say, "in the news" in which case it also goes back to

2272:

I'll agree with that 100%. That was what was so great about it. Maybe you had to be there, but this was the first time that black and white music had mixed so that no one (Who was into the music) even noticed what colour the performer was. I was only a kid, but I'd say the fact that I was into

2263:

Just as there is debate what the first rock'n'roll record is, there are A LOT of differing opinions on where "rock" originally came from - it's invention by black urban youth is NOT the only theory. For instance, Elvis' first recordings sound literally like nothing else, a NEW sound - is that new

2198:

There were other lyrics as the song progressed, such as: (Her) "It's intermission in a minute so you better get with it" that was a lyric, too. The song made extensive use of the words "rock" and "roll" as it progressed, therefore, it should be included in every portrayal of Rock and roll music,

1990:

i don't feel like going into some lengthy argument here, but it is unnacceptable to categorize "rock" and "rock and roll" as two different genres simply due to what it was called in it's day. the early beatles without a doubt recognized themselves as a rock and roll band, even though they are not

1251:

to specifically discuss the origins in the early part of the century to about the time of British Invasion. This wouldn't help a whole lot, though, since most of the article takes place after the mid-60s, and it would leave probably hundreds of articles pointed to the wrong location. Still, its

1095:

I agree with what you're saying. Hmm, it's a tough one tbh - "Rock and Roll" as I see the term pretty much died out at the end of the 60s, though Oasis are quite "Rock and Roll" too and they're modern. "Rock" makes me think of Van Halen and Bon Jovi, but that's also classified as "Hair Metal".

1436:

I know this article is very long, but just cutting and cutting is not the way to fix it. Much of this information is valuable, and should be carefully preserved in proper articles. Very importantly, major sections should not be removed without good reasons. (Shortening an article is not a good

1377:

I wrote a little note further down about why I changed the history section back. Basically the deletions removed way too much important information from the article, including several entire sections. Certainly the details should be kept at specific pages, but I was worried the entire page had

397:

didn't, but it would help if the "something" he brought were specified in the article. I can't myself think of anything he brought to the song which was superior to the original, but am willing to be edified. If the point is that many of the covers weren't simply copies, then maybe that could be

2037:

i really want to hear some opinions on this. to me, this is a major error and makes absolutely no sense. this is not a different movement than rock music, heck, they're eveb lumped together in the infobox. it would make sense to acknowledge the first generation of rock and roll as a section on

1895:

Concerning the "Decline and rebirth" of rock and roll: By the end of the 1950s, Elvis Presley was in the Army, Buddy Holly was dead, Chuck Berry was in jail, Alan Freed was a man broken by the payola scandal (he died soon after), and Dick Clark was exerting his "whitening" (or anti-Alan Freed,

1869:

I don't have a lot of time to go into it, but I feel the radical re-org and breaking up of this article into hard-to-find sub-articles is a disaster. I know it was done with the best of intentions but it ended up as the worst of results... This groveling at the feet of the silly "40k limit" is

551:

I've changed it to dashes, because I agree that looks better. This is supposed to float to the right around the text, but for some reason this conversation isn't wrapping around it, so maybe I did something wrong. I'm not sure how to add more space between categories, but I'll fiddle with it

2122:

This makes very little sense, as written. Is the author questioning the sub-genre's authenticity as a form of Rock and Roll, and if so, in what ways? Also, the use of the word "authenticity" itself is not clearly defined in relation to the connection between the sub-genre & Rock and Roll.

684:

Hm. I don't disagree with this in principle but the boundaries are so fuzzy and subject to personal opinion that I think it is better covered in one well-written article. Perhaps you can add some discussion on the branching of Rock from RnR (I think it is mentioned briefly in the article).

177:

This could be a useful paragraph, but as it is I believe it is distracting and confusing, and doesn't mean anything. All the reader can take away is that someone thinks the fact that many early rock and rollers were southern whites is a significant fact (significant to who/what?). Somebody,

93:

Some might question the discussion of racial politics here, but I think it's an important part of the story of rock's popularity in the 1950s, so I would argue for its retention. Also, it was noted that there was some resisatance to listing a lot of bands; I don't know that I agree with that

84:

Wouldn't it be more acurate to say that Modern Rock and Classic Rock and Roll are two different genres. The Rock of the 80s, 90s, and 70s, is generally pretty distinct from pre-60s Rock and Roll I'd say. Does anyone else see things this way? And what in the world is 'Tight Music'? ~Jack Daily

898:

It looks like this editor did add a few things but also removed a lot -- I'm not going to sort through it all and have simply reverted but I'd encourage the editor to add your new material without deleting others'. If you think something is wrong or doesn't belong, please discuss it here.

2001:

Eh, rock (and roll) was still too young to be divided into subgenres? Rockabilly, Doowop, Louisiana whatever you call Fats Domino? It was a label plastered over a lot of musical styles, and was devalued by '63. By early Beatles guess you mean the Hamburg days, but about then it was/became

872:

Tori Amos (Little Earthquakes 1992) and Liz Phair (Exile in Guyville 1993) were putting out "confessional female rock releases" before anyone had heard of Alanis Morrissette. Perhaps they got more exposure from the chick rock fad, but their work was not "spawned" by Alanis Morrissette..

234:

When I was fifteen, we used to ride out in the country, way out in the country, to go to black "night clubs" (concrete-block shacks with tin roofs) where we were the ones behind the ropes and black people held the floor dancing to black bands. At about the same time, or a little earlier,

1823:. No, I don't want to move this article, "rock and roll" is fine. It seems somebody in Germany once chose "Rock 'n' Roll" was the real deal - a strange combination of apostrophes, spaces and capital letters that keeps on confusing even the officials such as the German r'n'r confederation 1900:

that, because their song-writing style really did not change across this time span, they need to be seen as a link or conduit from rhythm and blues to rock and roll, and that rock and rock developed over time in a transitional manner, i.e., it did not just start on, say, June 30, 1955.

1289:, hence the "resurgence" in the 1980s. The birth probably belongs about where you put it, between British invasion and Punk. THere should definately be at least a small bit about Hair Metal in this article, because it dominated mainstream rock and roll for a few years. [[User:Siroxo|— 109:

My view is that in listing too many bands one loses the focus of the article and doesn't give the opportunity for the truly outstanding (in terms of popular and/or critical acclaim, or influence on future work) to be recognised. Perhaps we need some list articles for rock/pop groups.

1966:

I agree; certain bands (not just springsteen and the e street band) have been erroneously left out. However, it would be a good idea to get a list here of bands that are odd-man-out and don't fit into the current categories, so we can decide on a correct title or subtitle. -Job,

1165:

Going back even further, Rock and Roll can trace a foundational lineage to the old Five Points district of mid-19th century New York City, the scene of the first fusion of heavily rhythmic African shuffles and sand dances with melody driven European genres, particularly the Irish

289:

It is really counter-productive and counter-factual to pretend this did not happen. Virtually the whole story of American music is the story of the encounter of white people with black people. It is also incorrect to think that white people did not bring anything to the table.

351:

You misunderstand me. I agree the idea behind this quote is relevant, just not as it was worded--because the wording didn't seem to mean anything except by unclear implication. Something to the effect of what you wrote above (except not as personally about you) would be great.

636:

Is it time for "related articles" to go? It was an experiment to begin with, and I did almost all of the updating (which I haven't had the time or inclination to do much lately). Alternatively, can some or all of the "related articles" categories be merged into the genrebox?

1584:. Audiences for this type of cross-genre experimentation, both live and in recordings, are larger in Europe than the U.S., although in recent years, the popularization of Punk and Rap have opened traditionally mainstream minds to new forms of expression within the rock idiom. 206:

I was one of the first white people to get into the tent. Despite segregation, white southerners had much more contact with black people than white northerners did, and much, much more contact with black mus ic. When I went to college in 1959, I was astonished to find that

846:

Agree. As I use these terms, Rock & Roll refers to the 1950s-1960s thing, whereas rock can refer to anything, from ska punk to death metal, even if I personally regard calling these "rock" as an over-broad generalization and usually reserve the word "Rock" for

2042:

page for both styles, but this is ridiculous. as per "It later evolved into the various sub-genres of what is now called simply 'rock'", there is not enough recognition to justify rock and roll as a specific genre. this seems to be merely a creation of wikipedia.

867:

In 1995, Canadian pop star Alanis Morissette released Jagged Little Pill, a major hit that featured blunt, personally-revealing lyrics, and spawning a wave of late 90s confessional female rock releases by artists including Jewel, Tori Amos, Fiona Apple, and Liz

1560:, largely because there is no other way to classify them, are an example of a relatively unknown, cultish trend in music that is very influential but flies below the cultural radar of all but the most adventurous music fans. A combination of jazz, psychedelia, 1509:

What do you think of the current version? The only major change was the removal of the entire disco section, since disco isn't rock and hasn't had much influence on it. This gets the size down to 38 kb, only 6 kb short of the maximum desirable article size.

371:

like Phillips and performers. Performers mostly just want to perform. Elvis wanted to sing like a black man, to be sure, but he wanted to sing like an Italian tenor too, and a pop star, and every other kind of singing you can think of (some pretty awful).

2118:

For example: "Over the years, Rock and Roll has evolved into subgenres with different characteristics. Many of these characteristics have affected the believe of the genre's authenticity depending on portions of Rock and roll's timeframe of existance."

706:

have different connotations, but I don't think they're different genres. Perhaps, Rock is a super-genre of Rock and Roll which includes things that couldn't possibly be described as rock and roll. Don't know what the plan on this is as of now, though.

380:

to keep those things looking good). My mom thought I was gay since no one but homosexuals wore blue suede shoes in her experience. (Not that there's anything wrong with that, but back then ...). It was not the only way my mother suffered from my

375:

Of course, I'm planning to add all this stuff to the article. It won't be about me, but you can bet those white teenagers in pegged pants and blue suede shoes will be in there. I bought my first blue suede shoes well before the song (and it is a

1437:

reason for blatant removal of information and sections). Take it one step at a time, and make sure all the information that needs to be here is, and that the info removed is placed at proper articles, and linked to in an obvious way (eg, the

1202:

etc. I suggest being strict -- I removed the section (which was empty) devoted to Motown and soul, because they are not varieties of rock. Influenced by it, yes, and soul is mentioned in several locations already, but we have an article on

1663:

But by the end of the 1970s, new, hard-edged formats would begin to develop, forcing Disco on the back burner. One night in 1979, at Yankee Stadium, thousands of fans staged "Disco sucks" protests by crushing and burning their disco vinyl

340:

told an interviewer in the late 40s, after his "That's My Desire" was a hit, said, "All I was trying to do, all I ever wanted to do, was to sing like a spade." (Pardon the rudeness, but the word is essential to understanding the remark.)

996:

This is a posibility; however, the social impact of rock and roll is so inherently connected to it, that some good summaries should be left here of each "piece" of impact discussed. We should be cautious in how we break this article up.

1474:

No information was lost, and everything was moved to different articles, all of which are fairly prominently linked in just the manner you describe. Which information that was moved away from the old version do you want to keep here?

1373:. The only part that can't be moved anywhere is the basic stuff about how the subgenres appeared and the social impacts of the whole rock shebang. Anyway, I'm not sure if I'm making since, but... 21:33, Aug 30, 2004 (UTC) 2273:

people like Jerry Lee Lewis and Little Richard simply because they both kicked s#!t out of the piano had a lot to do with the fact that when I finally came across racism years later it seemed completely idiotic to me. --

1650:

i wonder if the introduction is entirely accurate; soul and hip hop are basically seperate genres of music that have ties to rock, but i think that heavy metal is pretty definitely a form of rock music.... any thoughts?

1062:

As simmple rock and roll evolved into more sophisticated forms, often bearing little resemblance to the simple, dancable rock and roll of the past, some critics differentiated this form by referring to it simply as

631:

I see a genrebox has been added. This isn't a bad thing, but the current layout, with the genrebox, TOC, and "related articles" table (all in conflicting colors) is hideous; I cannot stand it and it cannot stand.

2099:

it seems be a reasonably common term, but I know too little about the various sub-genre relationships to know what should be kept, merged, etc. Could some folks with subject matter expertise take a look? Thanks,

490:

Looks good to me. Can we add more space between categories? And is the item seperation by commas rather than dashes the new standard? The only thing that's more difficult about that is when items are related

202:

to a music performed by and for everyone. In the current climate of razor-thin genres, it is perhaps hard to remember or imagine that rock and roll actually brought black and white people into the same tent.

1084:

differences of the terms "rock" and "rock and roll" seems naturally to belong there. I have no problems if you want to expand upon or re-focus the discussion there, but I don't think it belongs in the intro.

189:

I was a white southern teenager in the 50s and this paragraph or some version of its message definitely belongs in this article. The story of the birth of rock and roll is the story of the transformation of

2114:

This entire section may need to be either deleted or completely re-written, primarily because it is difficult to follow the argument due to unclear phrasing, and poor punctuation, spelling & grammar.

1050:. All modern musical genres are difficult to define and many bands do not like being placed in only one particular category - they see themselves as a crossover between many different types of music. The 733:

disagree with the equation of rock and rock and roll. I don't know many people who consider them the same and it is a very misleading comment for someone doing research. I'm afraid I'l have to do some

1548:

kind of progressive and psychedelic fusion, I think. No music is unclassifiable, thought very little of it fits into any neat hierarchy. Anyway, this paragraph seems out-of-place and overly long.

2213:

How did the phrase "Rock and Roll" come to be? Though I don't particularly know it, there should be an added section about how the phrase came about. It would be a good addition to the article.

2283:

I invite you to look at Big Mama Thorton's "Hound Dog". I'm sorry but a lot of the reason for the early white rock 'n' roller's success was the fact that they were more marketable than blacks.

2369:

The extended discussion of "Rock around the Clock" shouldn't be in the rockabilly section. The Comets were not a rockabilly act, and that particular track was released as a "novelty foxtrot".

1904:

The aftermath of the decline may have begun with the late 60s tendency to talk about groups as "rock and roll bands". By the punk era there was a bit of a UK revival with Matchbox (named after

1932:

in public places everywhere. Rock and roll music was not the only type of music to falter in the later 1950s. As the entire nation changed, several popular genres fell into disuse. Perhaps

406:

I added a bit about how the covers weren't necessarily copies. If that wasn't what was intended please add what was. I happen to think myself that some covers were superior to the originals.

567:

Looks nice, thanks. Can it be a bit wider? And, are we going to settle on three entries per category, or is there some other rule of thumb that would work better with this format table?

467:. You are correct about the rule, I had edited an update of the article but it was sacrificed to the slow server gods; I've now put a one-line add, perhaps someone else can flesh it out. 344:

I'll be getting back to this subject. It's important to me and it's important to accurate history. Rock and roll and jazz would not have happened without both black and white performers.

1175:

including transmission of music. After all, the Mississippi from Memphis down to New Orleans seems to have been the birthplace of practically every other American musical tradition... --

1096:

This confusion is what leads to me think that the pre-TOC bit should contain some mention of the difficulties of the terminology used. I'm off to read AllMusic's version of things! :)

1255:

Another problem I have with the article is its Americo-centricity. Obviously, there is mention of British musicians, but after the 60s, it seems to be included as an afterthough (the

1556:

Unclassifiable, non-commercial music forms have always played an important part in the evolution of rock music. An ever-expanding group of British musicians known collectively as the

1896:

anyway)influence on the business through "American Bandstand". So, I think that these events need to be considered in any discussion of the decline of the first wave of rock music.

2141:

The overuse of the words "black" and "white" is astonishing. This is an article that should be cleansed of those two words to make it factual. At this moment, the article conveys

887:

I know how you removed the red table and switched it back to orange. I am changing colors to go in line with different genres. Is it okay if I use white text on a red background?

2309:

Jerry Lee Lewis was once the subject of an article In the Rolling Stone. It was in the 1970'S methinks. If anybody remembers the year and month of such an article please post it.

415:

I like the table with new articles and such here, but I don't think I like the format. It looks too much like the main page -- surely we can think of some better way to do this.

255:

really happened to me and thousands of others. We were years ahead of the yankees on this. Then, many years later, the same thing happened in New York, when Italians like

178:

possibly the same person, believes Elvis was white but sang like he was black. Buddy Holly and Roy Orbison were Texan, and Jerry Lee Lewis was Louisianian (a Louisianer?).

937:

The external links provided on the rock and roll article seem to belong on other pages. I'll wait a little while to move them though, in case anyone else has an opinion.

907:

This user seems to have a history of innocent-looking vandalism (removal of info/alteration of info), I might report him soon, but good revert, and we should be careful.

432:

Hey, this article badly needs a mention of Bob Dylan. Maybe a new section on how he brought folk influences over, but not ignoring the big moment when he "plugged in".

1976:...and other mispellings such as rock n roll and rock n'roll :-)~ Nothing about Bobby Lee Trammell? (You mostest girl/Uh oh) FABOR FA 002, 1958 and many others... 1447:

Lastly, I know that none of the edits to cut the article down in size were done in bad faith, I just wanted to preserve the information that could have been lost.

658:

precursor to RnR is pretty lame, in my opinion. The whole first part of the article talks about precursors; do we really want to oversimplify it so in the box?

1187:

Hmm, this article is at more than 40k right now, and needs to be made smaller. I've been trying to organize it more, but I think I added more than I removed.

1067:" music. The term "rock" as used today encompasses a very wide variety of musical styles and rock is often divided into many overlapping sub-genres (see also 1612:

This seems fine, others had suggested it before as well. We should include a very prominent link to that article, perhaps right in the introductory section.

2239:

Good explanation. Unfortunately lots of folks still use "R&R" when WE KNOW they should be saying "Rock". I think the article goes into this issue a bit.

2199:

including the portrayal in Knowledge which, unsurprisingly for a Knowledge article, discusses "blacks" and "whites" instead of the subject of the article.

1912:

A Brief History of Rock and Roll gives an alternative view which looks pretty credible to me, and doesn't look out of line with points in the article. ....

2249:

Why not have a brief description of the various forms it has taken since the end of the 60's. Have brief paragraphs on punk, metal, and alternative rock.

1518:

Yeah Disco is very hazy as a true part of rock and roll, and is not a requisite part of the article. It might be worth a short mention somewhere though.

544:

Also, does this now float to the side of the main text? That would be very nice and allow for more flexibility in the number of items in each category.

1854: 1194:

is exceedingly vague -- this is part of the problem. Even hip hop is sometimes considered a kind of rock, which makes this article very redudant with

364:

box set and play it all the way through (it's on the second disk now). I haven't heard any pandering to white people or trying to sound "pop".

181:

I'll let this gestate in my mind, and maybe I'll come up with a point and find some sources. Anybody else who wants to give it a shot, feel free.

1936:

music displaced them, I do not know for sure. The peoples' taste in music changed as the mature people became old and those born at the fabulous

1847: 1735:

are involved, words are fused into one: "that's", "shouldn't", "isn't" and so on. Comparable items I found within the wikipedia are "jump'n'run",

449:

Another rule followed on the main page is that the article must explain why it is "in the news" before it is listed... What did I miss about

1568:, and other art and literary references, fused reluctantly into a 60s and 70s rock framework, is characterized by bands such as the early 2370: 2290: 966:

With the article now 42k (preferred maximum is 32k I believe) perhaps it's time to split it into two sections: The main part and a new

647:

To answer my own question - yes, it seems to be time for the table to go - it has not been edited in some time and has become obsolete.

1928:

music became practically nonexistent, falling from the most-favored common music in the United States. Hillbilly music had been on

102:. Also, in large part, the medium is defined by who was playing it (and when). This is the logic behind some of my edits today. 622:

In the 1995- present section: it mentions the extremely dire state of things in the late 90s but nothing about the White Stripes

2354: 1266:

It may be better to have this be an overview of rock in all its incarnations and aspects, and have a separate article for the

1594: 1342: 982: 971: 321:

I think its also worth quoting Phillips in full: "If I could find a white man who had the Negro sound and the Negro feel,

1319: 1302: 676:

Rock and Roll and Rock are two separate but related genres... I'd edit it myself but dont want to incur anyone's wrath.

71: 66: 790:

many bands are mis-genre-ized as rock 'n' roll by music industry because of promotional reasons or marketing strategies

1341:

I've have ruthlessly cut stuff away. Except for a little bit of trimming of verbiage, all material has been moved to

1199: 988:

I would do this myself but it's quite a big change and I'd rather have some opinions before I mess around with it.

1820: 1770: 1195: 38: 309:

Incidentally, the quotation about Elvis --"a white man who sings like a black man"-- was not really about Elvis.

1752: 1413: 1267: 465: 118: 1776:

That link appears to be to a talk for a de article that doesn't exist, so I'm responding here. Regarding the

689:

article (leaving the RnR article untouched for now) and see if a natural and consensus break point develops.

2294: 2374: 2047:

02:20, 6 June 2006 (UTC) Yes, "rock" is synonymous with "rock n roll" I think the articles should be merged.

1800:, it is most certainly not a kind of rock and roll by any reasonable definition. However, many people use 978: 977:

Though the social impact is very important I think it could easily be moved into a different article. The

967: 1054:

help to disambiguate to a large degree and it is usual to describe acts using a number of different terms.

1207:, so there's no need for it here. I'd like to remove the bit about disco as well for the same reason. 306:

were all great performers and great artists who performed their own transformation on what they found.

1977: 1600:

I don't really have a point, just felt like I should leave a note on talk. Gonna go write a summary of

800:

Maybe this will help you?! I don't have an account with the English wikipedia, you can contact me here:

256: 393:

2. I can think of a lot of things that Bill Haley could have brought to "Shake, Rattle, and Roll" that

1880:

Can you be more specific about what you want to change, and why? Which articles would you merge here?

1784:

question -- I'm not sure what you're asking. Do you want to move this article? I don't really care (

1744: 874: 2342: 2286: 2011: 1765:

dictionary - that claims salsa was "a kind of rock music". We doubt that. Can anyone comment on that?

1334: 686: 260: 251:

worked alongside black people in the fields and learned to play from black people on the weekends.

2346: 441:

the leftmost rather than disappearing off the right -- Michael Jackson is a current case in point).

2350: 2127: 2101: 1369:

is so vague, much of the history that was here could and should be better covered at articles like

1068: 1051: 353: 182: 1676: 741:

We've had that one in the German wikipedia as well and found the following facts and conclusions:

2324: 1942:

replaced them. The young people were not attracted to Rock and roll, Polka, and Hillbilly music.

1808:. Rock had an influence on salsa, but it would be very misleading to call salsa a kind of rock. 1736: 1581: 579:

to some higher number in the first line of the box code, and it will get correspondingly wider.

482:

I was gonna convert this to the new wikimarkup, but then I decided to change it a bit. Opinions?

138: 111: 47: 17: 1127:

Keep the new intro, personally I like it. It'll set things straight at the start. This should

611:. Looks like something got lost in the transition to the new table format. Fixed now, thanks. 1909: 1980: 1711: 607: 527: 503: 199: 2070: 2044: 2021: 1992: 1668:

Before I go and change the article, I wanted to get some feedback on the following facts...

1621: 1557: 1527: 1493: 1458: 1387: 1314: 1295: 1140: 1006: 946: 916: 714: 191: 2265: 2310: 2250: 2214: 2007: 1913: 1905: 1740: 1331: 1114: 1097: 1076: 989: 407: 399: 368: 303: 295: 150: 1046:

as used today is a very broad description and can differ greatly from what people see as

219:

was not some apostate to me, but just another R&B star alongside Jimmy and Muddy and

1908:

having some success, and Shakin' Stevens following on. As for the early and prehistory,

2200: 2146: 1948: 394: 382: 345: 264: 391:

1. The Stanley Brothers the article is linked to at the moment are the bluegrass act.

2096: 1851: 1362: 1286: 1260: 1248: 830: 677: 523: 499: 337: 244: 236: 228: 195: 134: 133:

Significantly, too, many early white rock and roll performers came from the South.

2378: 2358: 2327: 2313: 2298: 2277: 2253: 2243: 2228: 2217: 2203: 2149: 2130: 2104: 2073: 2051: 2048: 2024: 2014: 1995: 1951: 1916: 1884: 1881: 1874: 1809: 1748: 1707: 1703: 1641: 1605: 1569: 1549: 1511: 1476: 1358: 1282: 1274: 877: 852: 848: 833: 580: 553: 483: 454: 416: 313:, who gave a break to many black and white performers, described this as his quest 310: 248: 212: 122: 103: 2062:

of this so have posted here and wait for others to see present relevance if any.

1719: 1270:... I dunno if I really like that idea, since the topic is so vaguely-defined... 1075:

Perhaps I'm biased but I prefer my description too. Don't mean any offence Jgm.

597:? (In the orange box next to the TOC) What's that got to do with rock'n'roll? -- 575:

to simplify section headings), but you can fool around if you wish. Just change

2274: 2240: 1797: 1762: 1628: 1616: 1613: 1601: 1577: 1534: 1522: 1519: 1500: 1488: 1485: 1465: 1453: 1450: 1394: 1382: 1379: 1354: 1311: 1290: 1176: 1171: 1147: 1135: 1132: 1013: 1001: 998: 953: 941: 938: 923: 911: 908: 807: 793:

it is IMPOSSIBLE to clearly distinguish rock from rock'n'roll because there are

719: 711: 708: 519: 495: 326: 299: 220: 216: 146: 142: 46:

If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

981:

title would be the best imo as that term is more commonly used today. Perhaps

2063: 2003: 1732: 1350: 1346: 1256: 1244: 1204: 767:

upbeat tempos - e.g. Bill Haley (offbeat!) but not Avril Lavigne (no offbeat!)

361: 240: 224: 208: 198:, and that is the story of the transformation of a music performed by and for 1027:

I placed text under the heading to highlight the difference in modern use of

94:

restriction. I suppose one option would be to follow the precedent given in

2157: 2084: 1938: 1925: 1565: 1370: 594: 535: 511: 291: 280: 158: 99: 95: 1243:

It has also occurred to me that the bulk of this article could be moved to

1113:

Does that help? Not sure really. Oh, and they have about 200 subgenres!

137:, who was described as "a white man who sings like a black man", came from 89:

Born in the United Kingdom? The rest of the article doesn't seem to agree.

801: 239:

was hiding behind the piano in a Memphis night club (a real one) watching

2189:(Her) Roll with me Henry. Whew! Let's get it while the getting is good. 2160:

and various other singers. The song is of "Henry" and his dance partner.

2142: 2092: 2080: 1871: 1761:

In Germany, we have found an article in the "Duden" - Germany's official

1593:

I didn't want to, but I removed the social impact section, placing it at

1085: 900: 690: 659: 638: 612: 598: 568: 545: 468: 450: 442: 433: 424: 330: 283: 272: 154: 1281:

The birth of heavy metal is somewhere before 1969 with the formation of

215:

were not gigantic superstars as I had thought them. On the other hand,

1929: 1804:

with an unreasonable definition, basically meaning it as a synonym for

1699: 785:

nearly every style of music which is mostly driven by electric guitars

1933: 1263:). This should be more closely entangled with the central history. 1576:, who, in retrospect, can be said to have pioneered trends such as 2227:

How come this article only covers Rock and Roll up to the 1960s? -

1921: 1695: 276: 268: 1408:

Can anyone tell me what group did "I can dig it"? Thank you Rich

806:

I also believe that a separate "Rock" article should be written.

360:

The first thing I did after writing the above was to get out the

1573: 1561: 1440: 170:

guess what the author meant, but it really needs an explanation.

1720:

Why "rock 'n' roll" instead of "rock'n'roll"? What about Salsa?

2156:

some parts from the wildly popular song which was recorded by

1430: 531: 507: 25: 1224:

American diversification into surf and such, and spread to UK

1640:

I put a link in the first para. The article is at 33k now.

1835:

we started wondering how come someone added spaces at all.

1417: 1131:

be discussed in more depth in the places Jgm pointed out.

1109: 423:

the TOC. But I'm no table guru; perhaps someone else is.

1330:

section (above) re:relocating the social impact section.

1227:

British Invasion, psychedelia and folk- and country-rock

890:

Currently I am experimenting with a darker crimson red.

748:

and is NOT an abbreviation or a synonyme for rock'n'roll

1273:

Anyway, I'm rambling and will stop now. Any opinions?

1233:

Singer-songwriters, glam, hard rock, power pop and punk

2323:

Are we allowed to add a image to this just wondering.(

1828: 1429:

I just changed the history section back to the one of

1824: 685:

Alternatively, I think it'd be acceptable to start a

1819:

Oops, sorry I messed up that link. I have fixed it:

1412:This really isn't the place for such a query (the 223:. They used to show up on the hit parade between 2259:why "African-American?" how about just "American" 1827:. Since even the world rock'n'roll confederation 893: 770:in fact NO actual chartbreaker can be considered 654:One more thing -- the listing of "Jump Blues" as 1729:Why is it "rock 'n' roll" and not "rock'n'roll"? 1259:are not mentioned anywhere, but then neither is 1058:Jgm's version (in "Origins of Rock and Roll"): 1433:, without changing the rest of the article. 263:. It happened decades earlier when the white 2091:Hi. Patrolling recent changes, I came across 279:singing. It happened a century earlier when 173:Who characterized Elvis that way? Who cares? 8: 1211:least), but its often treated as distinct). 1221:First popularization, covers and rockabilly 247:was tutored by a black man named Tee-Tot. 1702:et al where as glam rock (IMHO) would be 894:Today's edits by user at ip 64.222.226.14 2165:(Henry) Hey, baby. What do I got to do? 1986:rock is an abbreviation of rock and roll 1023:Differences between my version and Jgm's 1848:Knowledge:Sign your posts on talk pages 1416:might be). But since you're here, try 1343:samples of music from the United States 1236:Alternative rock, jangle pop and grunge 2173:(Her) You got to dance with me Henry. 746:rock is a super genre to rock 'n' roll 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 1214:This would leave as a basic outline: 1038:My version (at the top of the page): 7: 2192:(Chorus) So good, so good, so good. 1891:decline and rebirth of rock and roll 1230:Birth of heavy metal and progressive 2334:British Rock n Roll section deleted 1589:I removed the social impact section 1378:suffored from overzealous cutting. 1239:Britpop and the garage rock revival 231:and nobody thought anything of it. 779:has been invented later in history 672:Rock and Roll, also called Rock... 24: 367:There's a big difference between 1821:de:Benutzer Diskussion:Thetawave 1796:are all fine by me). Regarding 1771:de:Benutzer Diskussion:Thetawave 166:Why is this significant? I can 29: 729:Just to add my two cents in, I 259:emulated black groups like the 1759:Is Salsa a kind of rock music? 1595:social impact of rock and roll 983:Social impact of rock and roll 972:Social impact of rock and roll 323:I could make a million dollars 286:emulated black performers. 1: 2299:23:44, 10 December 2007 (UTC) 2052:01:23, 25 February 2007 (UTC) 1755:- they seem to be misspelled. 1425:Semirevert of history section 1322:]] 22:51, Aug 26, 2004 (UTC) 1285:, certainly before 1970 with 2379:23:03, 3 February 2008 (UTC) 2359:02:05, 25 January 2008 (UTC) 2278:13:25, 30 January 2007 (UTC) 2254:00:46, 31 January 2007 (UTC) 2244:16:54, 2 February 2007 (UTC) 1917:22:25, 17 January 2006 (UTC) 1885:00:30, 20 October 2005 (UTC) 1875:04:25, 19 October 2005 (UTC) 243:work it out for the crowd. 145:was from Lubbock, Texas and 2181:(Her) Rock with me, Henry. 1910:The Church of Rock and Roll 1855:23:24, 18 August 2005 (UTC) 1743:. Non-conform examples are 1716:uh...rock n' roll is cool. 1200:music of the United Kingdom 2395: 2168:To make sweet love to you. 2069:that's called folk music. 2025:21:43, 19 April 2006 (UTC) 2015:08:10, 19 April 2006 (UTC) 1996:02:50, 19 April 2006 (UTC) 1277:21:41, Aug 26, 2004 (UTC) 1196:music of the United States 958:22:37, Jul 18, 2004 (UTC) 834:13:27, 7 August 2005 (UTC) 486:08:18, Feb 16, 2004 (UTC) 2365:Bill Haley not Rockabilly 2218:16:32, 16 July 2006 (UTC) 2131:23:07, 24 June 2006 (UTC) 1981:00:57, 3 March 2006 (UTC) 1865:Re-Org should be reversed 1710:13:13, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC) 1608:05:30, Sep 5, 2004 (UTC) 1552:07:46, Sep 4, 2004 (UTC) 1539:03:15, Sep 4, 2004 (UTC) 1505:16:48, Sep 3, 2004 (UTC) 1470:03:55, Sep 3, 2004 (UTC) 1179:15:37, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC) 928:22:27, Jul 18, 2004 (UTC) 903:19:54, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC) 820:16:12, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC) 722:10:02, Jul 17, 2004 (UTC) 680:19:29, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC) 641:22:00, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC) 601:18:22, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC) 583:23:29, Feb 18, 2004 (UTC) 571:23:19, 18 Feb 2004 (UTC) 556:17:58, Feb 16, 2004 (UTC) 548:16:06, 16 Feb 2004 (UTC) 457:02:43, Jan 18, 2004 (UTC) 445:01:04, 18 Jan 2004 (UTC) 185:05:54 Oct 22, 2002 (UTC) 149:was from Vernon, Texas. 2328:08:22, 6 July 2007 (UTC) 2314:08:38, 15 May 2007 (UTC) 2204:13:14, 4 July 2006 (UTC) 2150:22:30, 3 July 2006 (UTC) 2105:18:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC) 2095:. As you can see on the 2074:02:24, 6 June 2006 (UTC) 1971: 1952:12:25, 4 July 2006 (UTC) 1812:21:18, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC) 1679:05:14, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC) 1644:07:32, Sep 5, 2004 (UTC) 1633:05:51, Sep 5, 2004 (UTC) 1514:22:19, Sep 3, 2004 (UTC) 1479:07:54, Sep 3, 2004 (UTC) 1414:Knowledge:reference desk 1399:03:59, Sep 3, 2004 (UTC) 1337:22:53, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC) 1268:history of rock and roll 1218:Birth in the 30s and 40s 1152:23:04, Aug 6, 2004 (UTC) 1079:16:04, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC) 1018:04:23, Sep 3, 2004 (UTC) 992:10:02, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC) 878:11:49, 31 May 2004 (UTC) 693:22:12, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC) 662:22:02, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC) 615:00:44, 28 Feb 2004 (UTC) 471:04:26, 19 Jan 2004 (UTC) 436:19:09, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC) 427:13:21, 21 Nov 2003 (UTC) 402:13:05, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC) 356:13:58 Oct 22, 2002 (UTC) 329:'s has always been)" -- 119:Rock and roll performers 2339:American innovations. 2184:(Him) Don't mean maybe. 1659:The article says this: 1117:17:35, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC) 1110:http://www.allmusic.com 1100:17:21, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC) 1088:16:47, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC) 795:no official definitions 774:(too slow, no offbeat!) 410:22:31, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC) 388:Just two quick points: 2057:Rock and roll Protests 1924:music fell away, too. 1753:Suburban Rock 'N' Roll 1724:I have two questions: 1157:Precursors and Origins 985:could redirect to it. 862:Current (1995-present) 2176:(Him) Allright, baby. 1806:Western popular music 1543:Social impact removal 1328:Splitting the article 979:Social impact of rock 968:Social impact of rock 962:Splitting the article 759:songs that feature a 317:he ever met Elvis. 257:Dion and the Belmonts 42:of past discussions. 2209:Origin of the Phrase 2110:Authenticity Section 1829:http://www.wrrc.org 1745:Rock n' Roll Nights 1418:the All-Music Guide 1252:worth considering. 1069:list of rock genres 772:rock 'n' roll music 753:very "narrow" genre 751:rock 'n' roll is a 478:Suggested new table 398:stated explicitly. 2137:Excessive verbiage 1957:More major artists 1831:use "rock'n'roll" 1825:http://www.drbv.de 1694:Hair metal covers 1655:Disco Sucks Revolt 1582:experimental music 1183:Major reorg needed 1161:The article says: 667:Rock/Rock and Roll 139:Memphis, Tennessee 117:Point taken. See 18:Talk:Rock and roll 2361: 2345:comment added by 2301: 2289:comment added by 1052:subgenres of rock 608:Justified (album) 605:Should have been 528:Justin Timberlake 504:Justin Timberlake 200:African Americans 77: 76: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 2386: 2340: 2284: 1631: 1626: 1619: 1558:Canterbury Scene 1537: 1532: 1525: 1503: 1498: 1491: 1468: 1463: 1456: 1397: 1392: 1385: 1326:Please also see 1305: 1300: 1293: 1150: 1145: 1138: 1016: 1011: 1004: 956: 951: 944: 926: 921: 914: 818: 817: 814: 811: 627:Boxes and Tables 369:record producers 192:rhythm and blues 129:I have removed: 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 2394: 2393: 2389: 2388: 2387: 2385: 2384: 2383: 2381:KD Tries Again 2367: 2336: 2321: 2307: 2305:Old Stone Issue 2261: 2225: 2211: 2139: 2134: 2120: 2112: 2089: 2059: 2035: 1988: 1974: 1972:rock'n'rRoll... 1959: 1906:Matchbox (song) 1893: 1867: 1722: 1688: 1657: 1629: 1622: 1617: 1591: 1545: 1535: 1528: 1523: 1501: 1494: 1489: 1466: 1459: 1454: 1427: 1406: 1395: 1388: 1383: 1303: 1296: 1291: 1185: 1159: 1148: 1141: 1136: 1048:"Rock and Roll" 1025: 1022: 1014: 1007: 1002: 964: 954: 947: 942: 935: 924: 917: 912: 896: 885: 864: 815: 812: 809: 808: 777:rock as a name 755:including only 698:I'd agree that 687:Rock music/temp 669: 629: 480: 304:Bix Beiderbecke 296:Jerry Lee Lewis 151:Jerry Lee Lewis 82: 59: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 2392: 2390: 2366: 2363: 2335: 2332: 2320: 2317: 2306: 2303: 2281: 2280: 2260: 2257: 2247: 2246: 2232: 2224: 2221: 2210: 2207: 2196: 2195: 2194: 2193: 2187: 2186: 2185: 2179: 2178: 2177: 2171: 2170: 2169: 2162: 2161: 2138: 2135: 2125: 2117: 2111: 2108: 2102:William Pietri 2097:Talk: Buttrock 2088: 2078: 2077: 2076: 2058: 2055: 2034: 2031: 2030: 2029: 2028: 2027: 1987: 1984: 1973: 1970: 1969: 1968: 1958: 1955: 1946: 1945: 1944: 1943: 1892: 1889: 1888: 1887: 1866: 1863: 1862: 1861: 1860: 1859: 1858: 1857: 1839: 1838: 1837: 1836: 1833:without spaces 1814: 1813: 1767: 1766: 1763:orthographical 1756: 1721: 1718: 1706:and suchlike. 1698:bands such as 1687: 1684: 1682: 1666: 1665: 1656: 1653: 1648: 1647: 1646: 1645: 1635: 1634: 1604:and such now. 1590: 1587: 1586: 1585: 1544: 1541: 1516: 1515: 1481: 1480: 1439:Main article: 1426: 1423: 1422: 1421: 1405: 1402: 1401: 1400: 1339: 1338: 1308: 1307: 1241: 1240: 1237: 1234: 1231: 1228: 1225: 1222: 1219: 1184: 1181: 1168: 1167: 1158: 1155: 1154: 1153: 1123: 1121: 1120: 1119: 1118: 1104: 1103: 1102: 1101: 1090: 1089: 1073: 1072: 1056: 1055: 1024: 1021: 1020: 1019: 963: 960: 934: 933:External links 931: 930: 929: 895: 892: 884: 881: 870: 869: 863: 860: 859: 858: 857: 856: 841: 840: 839: 838: 837: 836: 822: 821: 798: 797: 791: 788: 781: 775: 768: 761:strong offbeat 749: 740: 738: 737: 736: 735: 724: 723: 695: 694: 674: 673: 668: 665: 664: 663: 651: 650: 649: 648: 628: 625: 624: 617: 616: 592: 591: 590: 589: 588: 587: 586: 585: 584: 560: 559: 558: 557: 540:for example). 493: 492: 479: 476: 475: 474: 473: 472: 459: 458: 438: 430: 429: 428: 413: 412: 411: 392: 386: 358: 357: 334: 333: 265:Jack Teagarden 187: 175: 174: 171: 163: 162: 127: 115: 107: 91: 87: 81: 80:Old discussion 78: 75: 74: 69: 64: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 2391: 2382: 2380: 2376: 2372: 2371:74.64.105.235 2364: 2362: 2360: 2356: 2352: 2348: 2344: 2333: 2331: 2329: 2326: 2325:Sparrowman980 2318: 2316: 2315: 2312: 2304: 2302: 2300: 2296: 2292: 2291:67.78.235.101 2288: 2279: 2276: 2271: 2270: 2269: 2267: 2258: 2256: 2255: 2252: 2245: 2242: 2238: 2237: 2236: 2231: 2230: 2222: 2220: 2219: 2216: 2208: 2206: 2205: 2202: 2191: 2190: 2188: 2183: 2182: 2180: 2175: 2174: 2172: 2167: 2166: 2164: 2163: 2159: 2154: 2153: 2152: 2151: 2148: 2144: 2136: 2132: 2129: 2124: 2116: 2109: 2107: 2106: 2103: 2098: 2094: 2086: 2082: 2079: 2075: 2072: 2068: 2067: 2066: 2065: 2056: 2054: 2053: 2050: 2046: 2041: 2032: 2026: 2023: 2018: 2017: 2016: 2013: 2009: 2005: 2000: 1999: 1998: 1997: 1994: 1985: 1983: 1982: 1979: 1978:Stephan KŒNIG 1965: 1964: 1963: 1956: 1954: 1953: 1950: 1941: 1940: 1935: 1931: 1927: 1923: 1920: 1919: 1918: 1915: 1911: 1907: 1903: 1902: 1901: 1897: 1890: 1886: 1883: 1879: 1878: 1877: 1876: 1873: 1864: 1856: 1853: 1849: 1845: 1844: 1843: 1842: 1841: 1840: 1834: 1830: 1826: 1822: 1818: 1817: 1816: 1815: 1811: 1807: 1803: 1802:rock and roll 1799: 1795: 1791: 1790:rock 'n' roll 1787: 1786:rock and roll 1783: 1779: 1778:rock 'n' roll 1775: 1774: 1773: 1772: 1769:Comments on: 1764: 1760: 1757: 1754: 1750: 1746: 1742: 1741:Bump 'n' Jump 1738: 1734: 1730: 1727: 1726: 1725: 1717: 1714: 1713: 1709: 1705: 1701: 1697: 1692: 1685: 1683: 1680: 1678: 1673: 1669: 1662: 1661: 1660: 1654: 1652: 1643: 1639: 1638: 1637: 1636: 1632: 1627: 1625: 1620: 1614: 1611: 1610: 1609: 1607: 1603: 1598: 1596: 1588: 1583: 1579: 1575: 1571: 1567: 1563: 1559: 1555: 1554: 1553: 1551: 1542: 1540: 1538: 1533: 1531: 1526: 1520: 1513: 1508: 1507: 1506: 1504: 1499: 1497: 1492: 1486: 1478: 1473: 1472: 1471: 1469: 1464: 1462: 1457: 1451: 1448: 1445: 1443: 1442: 1434: 1432: 1424: 1419: 1415: 1411: 1410: 1409: 1403: 1398: 1393: 1391: 1386: 1380: 1376: 1375: 1374: 1372: 1368: 1367:rock and roll 1364: 1363:American rock 1360: 1356: 1352: 1348: 1344: 1336: 1333: 1329: 1325: 1324: 1323: 1321: 1318: 1317: 1313: 1306: 1301: 1299: 1294: 1288: 1287:Black Sabbath 1284: 1280: 1279: 1278: 1276: 1271: 1269: 1264: 1262: 1258: 1253: 1250: 1249:rock and roll 1246: 1238: 1235: 1232: 1229: 1226: 1223: 1220: 1217: 1216: 1215: 1212: 1208: 1206: 1201: 1197: 1193: 1188: 1182: 1180: 1178: 1173: 1164: 1163: 1162: 1156: 1151: 1146: 1144: 1139: 1133: 1130: 1126: 1125: 1124: 1116: 1111: 1108: 1107: 1106: 1105: 1099: 1094: 1093: 1092: 1091: 1087: 1082: 1081: 1080: 1078: 1070: 1066: 1061: 1060: 1059: 1053: 1049: 1045: 1041: 1040: 1039: 1036: 1034: 1030: 1029:Rock and Roll 1017: 1012: 1010: 1005: 999: 995: 994: 993: 991: 986: 984: 980: 975: 973: 969: 961: 959: 957: 952: 950: 945: 939: 932: 927: 922: 920: 915: 909: 906: 905: 904: 902: 891: 888: 882: 880: 879: 876: 866: 865: 861: 854: 850: 845: 844: 843: 842: 835: 832: 828: 827: 826: 825: 824: 823: 819: 805: 804: 803: 802: 796: 792: 789: 786: 782: 780: 776: 773: 769: 766: 762: 758: 754: 750: 747: 744: 743: 742: 732: 728: 727: 726: 725: 721: 718: 717: 713: 709: 705: 704:Rock and Roll 701: 697: 696: 692: 688: 683: 682: 681: 679: 671: 670: 666: 661: 657: 653: 652: 646: 645: 644: 643: 642: 640: 635: 626: 623: 620: 614: 610: 609: 604: 603: 602: 600: 596: 582: 578: 573: 572: 570: 566: 565: 564: 563: 562: 561: 555: 550: 549: 547: 543: 542: 541: 538: 537: 533: 529: 525: 524:Janet Jackson 521: 517: 514: 513: 509: 505: 501: 500:Janet Jackson 497: 489: 488: 487: 485: 477: 470: 466: 463: 462: 461: 460: 456: 452: 448: 447: 446: 444: 437: 435: 426: 421: 420: 419: 418: 409: 405: 404: 403: 401: 396: 389: 385: 384: 381:teenagedness. 379: 373: 370: 365: 363: 355: 350: 349: 348: 347: 342: 339: 338:Frankie Laine 332: 328: 324: 320: 319: 318: 316: 312: 307: 305: 302:, Teagarden, 301: 297: 293: 287: 285: 282: 278: 274: 270: 266: 262: 258: 252: 250: 246: 245:Hank Williams 242: 238: 237:Elvis Presley 232: 230: 229:Teresa Brewer 226: 222: 218: 214: 210: 204: 201: 197: 196:rock and roll 193: 186: 184: 179: 172: 169: 165: 164: 160: 156: 152: 148: 144: 140: 136: 135:Elvis Presley 132: 131: 130: 126: 124: 120: 114: 113: 112:Robert Merkel 106: 105: 101: 97: 90: 86: 79: 73: 70: 68: 65: 62: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 2368: 2337: 2322: 2308: 2282: 2262: 2248: 2233: 2226: 2223:More History 2212: 2197: 2140: 2121: 2113: 2090: 2060: 2039: 2036: 1989: 1975: 1960: 1947: 1937: 1898: 1894: 1868: 1832: 1805: 1801: 1793: 1789: 1785: 1781: 1777: 1768: 1758: 1728: 1723: 1715: 1704:Gary Glitter 1693: 1689: 1681: 1674: 1670: 1667: 1658: 1649: 1623: 1599: 1592: 1570:Soft Machine 1546: 1529: 1517: 1495: 1482: 1460: 1449: 1446: 1438: 1435: 1431:this version 1428: 1407: 1404:I can dig it 1389: 1366: 1359:British rock 1340: 1327: 1315: 1309: 1297: 1283:Led Zeppelin 1272: 1265: 1254: 1242: 1213: 1209: 1191: 1189: 1186: 1169: 1160: 1142: 1128: 1122: 1074: 1064: 1057: 1047: 1043: 1037: 1032: 1028: 1026: 1008: 987: 976: 965: 948: 936: 918: 897: 889: 886: 871: 855:and similar. 849:Led Zeppelin 799: 794: 784: 783:rock covers 778: 771: 764: 760: 756: 752: 745: 739: 730: 715: 703: 699: 675: 655: 633: 630: 621: 618: 606: 593: 576: 539: 518: 515: 494: 481: 439: 431: 414: 390: 387: 377: 374: 366: 359: 343: 335: 322: 314: 311:Sam Phillips 308: 288: 267:came out of 253: 249:Carl Perkins 233: 213:Muddy Waters 205: 188: 180: 176: 167: 128: 116: 108: 92: 88: 83: 60: 43: 37: 2341:—Preceding 2285:—Preceding 2133:Bomber55 2071:Joeyramoney 2045:Joeyramoney 2033:once again, 2022:Joeyramoney 1993:Joeyramoney 1794:rock'n'roll 1782:rock'n'roll 1749:Pac 'n Roll 1737:Wash'n'Roll 1733:apostrophes 1602:Aussie rock 1578:World Music 1355:Garage rock 1332:violet/riga 1172:New Orleans 1115:violet/riga 1098:violet/riga 1077:violet/riga 990:violet/riga 875:65.147.0.75 577:width="300" 520:The Beatles 496:The Beatles 327:Chuck Berry 300:Mick Jagger 221:James Brown 217:Chuck Berry 147:Roy Orbison 143:Buddy Holly 36:This is an 2311:Utah Smith 2251:Hoponpop69 2215:Smileman66 2008:dave souza 2004:beat music 1914:dave souza 1850:. Thanks. 1351:Indie rock 1347:Hair metal 1257:The Smiths 1247:, leaving 1245:rock music 1205:soul music 1192:rock music 408:Trontonian 400:Trontonian 395:Joe Turner 362:Bo Diddley 336:Likewise, 241:Ike Turner 225:Perry Como 209:Jimmy Reed 85:11:21UTC 2347:Guidosdad 2201:Superslum 2158:Pat Boone 2147:Superslum 2085:cock rock 1949:Superslum 1939:baby boom 1930:jukeboxes 1926:Hillbilly 1731:Whenever 1686:Glam rock 1566:John Cage 1444:) way. 1371:punk rock 1190:The term 1042:The term 883:Red table 634:Question: 595:Justified 552:tonight. 536:Meat Loaf 512:Meat Loaf 383:Ortolan88 346:Ortolan88 298:, Elvis, 292:Al Jolson 284:minstrels 281:blackface 271:with his 159:Louisiana 153:was from 100:Novelists 96:The novel 72:Archive 3 67:Archive 2 61:Archive 1 2355:contribs 2343:unsigned 2287:unsigned 2143:bullshit 2128:Bomber55 2093:Buttrock 2081:Buttrock 1852:Hyacinth 1664:records. 831:Army1987 829:Done. -- 734:editing. 731:strongly 678:DryGrain 491:(compare 451:Mystikal 354:Tokerboy 331:User:GWO 275:and his 273:trombone 183:Tokerboy 155:Ferriday 2229:mmace91 2049:Smiloid 1967:2/21/06 1882:Tuf-Kat 1846:Please 1810:Tuf-Kat 1708:Selphie 1700:Pantera 1677:Trweiss 1642:Tuf-Kat 1606:Tuf-Kat 1550:Tuf-Kat 1512:Tuf-Kat 1477:Tuf-Kat 1275:Tuf-Kat 1170:Wasn't 581:Tuf-Kat 554:Tuf-Kat 484:Tuf-Kat 455:Tuf-Kat 417:Tuf-Kat 261:Orioles 168:kind of 123:RjLesch 104:RjLesch 39:archive 2275:Deke42 2241:Sfahey 1934:Motown 1712:*talk* 1261:R.E.M. 1177:Sewing 1044:"Rock" 868:Phair. 530:, and 315:before 2319:Image 2266:Atsab 2083:(and 2064:Musea 1922:Polka 1798:salsa 1696:metal 853:Queen 757:jazzy 619:____ 516:with 378:bitch 277:blues 269:Texas 194:into 121:. -- 16:< 2375:talk 2351:talk 2295:talk 2012:talk 1792:and 1739:and 1618:siro 1580:and 1574:Gong 1572:and 1562:Dada 1524:siro 1490:siro 1455:siro 1441:blah 1384:siro 1361:and 1312:siro 1292:siro 1137:siro 1129:also 1065:rock 1033:Rock 1031:and 1003:siro 943:siro 913:siro 765:fast 763:and 712:siro 702:and 700:Rock 464:See 227:and 211:and 98:and 2145:. 2040:one 1872:JDG 1780:vs 1335:(t) 1166:jig 1086:Jgm 970:or 901:Jgm 691:Jgm 660:Jgm 656:the 639:Jgm 613:Jgm 599:Stw 569:Jgm 546:Jgm 532:MTV 508:MTV 469:Jgm 443:Jgm 434:JDG 425:Jgm 141:. 2377:) 2357:) 2353:• 2330:) 2297:) 2268:] 2126:-- 2100:-- 2010:, 1788:, 1751:, 1747:, 1675:-- 1564:, 1357:, 1353:, 1349:, 1345:, 1198:, 974:. 873:-- 851:, 816:ті 813:zє 810:тə 534:- 526:, 522:- 510:, 506:, 502:, 498:, 453:? 294:, 157:, 125:. 110:-- 2373:( 2349:( 2293:( 2087:) 1630:o 1624:χ 1615:— 1536:o 1530:χ 1521:— 1502:o 1496:χ 1487:— 1467:o 1461:χ 1452:— 1420:. 1396:o 1390:χ 1381:— 1320:o 1316:χ 1310:— 1304:o 1298:χ 1149:o 1143:χ 1134:— 1071:. 1063:" 1015:o 1009:χ 1000:— 955:o 949:χ 940:— 925:o 919:χ 910:— 787:. 720:o 716:χ 710:— 161:. 50:.

Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.

Index