1168:. Many people seem to be quite enthusiastic about these lists. In fact, consulting a few books on Chinese astrology, they seem rather ubiquitous. Reflecting this in the Chinese zodiac articles is of encyclopedic value, at least done in an exemplary and not exhaustive way: classifying people according to their animal signs is an essential part of the Chinese zodiac tradition. It is possible that some of the people that add names to this list may be making initial forays as editors, and encouraging them would be a way of recruiting people who would go on to make more substantial contributions. It is possible to ignore the lists, and they do not do any great harm. The lists also seem popular for the readers, our end-users, and that is what the encyclopedia is all about, not the editors. They may be difficult to maintain, but maybe not: I checked some of them, and the entries were all accurate, in a small sample. Notability can be assumed by linkage to a Knowledge article. The argument that western astrology articles lack these lists is irrelevant, it simply begs the question and creates the potential for circular arguments. Another thing is that you can delete the lists, but others may and probably will recreate them.
1174:. It would be possible to retain the lists, but not in their currant format. I don't think spinning them off into separate list articles would work. However, a protocol requiring somewhat of a higher standard for including persons in the lists, such as requiring the birthdates alongside the name, would make most of the entries obvious at a glance whether persons were correctly listed or not (December, January, and February don't have the highest birthrates, anyway). Also, a limit to the length of the lists could be implemented, so that once the list reaches its maximum number of entries, if someone wants to add to the list they would have to remove a previous entry, keeping the lists within reasonable bounds.
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1162:. The lists may seem a bit silly and unnecessary to many editors (especially for editors who are somewhat removed from popculture, and haven't a clue as to who most of these personalities are). They are tedious to verify, since the birth dates must be determined and the relevant zodiacal year must be consulted for that date based on the relevant lunar calendar. We might fear that if every person with a birthdate given in a Knowledge article becomes included in the lists, then they would go beyond a little crufty to being monstrous!
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1156:. I think that the most important principle here is that unreferenced material can be challenged and deleted; however, referenced material should remain. That said, I can see arguments for keeping or deleting the lists, both pro and con the RfC nomination. There is also a third option: allow the lists, but with a qualifying protocol. I think the lists should be allowed, but with strict limits.
1337:(Qualified:) I'm not very familiar with automated archiving, but if you think that it would be an improvement, then I would be interested in seeing the implementation. (Of course, I reserve the right to change my mind afterwards!) I'm not sure why you think that bots would do a better job than a manual job; but, if you want to set it up, I'm willing to check out the results!
1197:. There is no reason why Knowledge should support silly beliefs such as astrology by spreading meaningless information about who has been put into which pigeonhole by superstitious people. It should inform the reader about the principles those superstitous people believe in but not go into unnecessary detail. Those who want such lists can start their own astrologypedia. --
1081:) contain lists with a random assortment of people who happen to have been born in a qualifying year. There was a consensus ages ago that these lists constitute cruft, do not serve a useful purpose, are functionally random in content, and are unmaintainable. That discussion is above on this same talk page:
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Understandable; I've had a fair few distracted moments myself lately. That redirect had an unexpected (at least to me) side effect: Its talk page is the archive for this page because of the naming. I noticed it because redirects rarely have talk pages. The mysteries of MediaWiki are without number
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I'm appalled by the pointless lists that have cropped up in all the
Chinese zodiac articles, each listing a random assortment of people who happen to have that birth year. There was a consensus ages ago that these lists constitute cruft, do not serve a useful purpose, are functionally random in
1388:, something went awry. The link was to your own talk page archive, so I (re-)created one here. I did it manually; as you pointed out, the page isn't that busy, and continuing that way shouldn't take much time or attention. Let me know if there are any problems or if you have questions.
1354:, if you'd like to set up a manual archive, please do. I see automated archiving as requiring less editor attention over time. Much of this page is taken up by threads that are more than ten years old, and I think that it's time for an archive, no matter what kind.
1371:, it appears that the old talk was from 3 July 2005 UTC through 14 May 2014 UTC, with a break of about six years, and no new talk till 2020. I did a bare bones implementation: down, dirty, not necessarily the ideal job, leaving the 2020 stuff. But anyway...
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Those points still stand. Nothing has changed since then, except that apparently people stopped keeping an eye out for the return of these lists. I propose to reaffirm the above consensus and then to remove the lists from all of the articles.
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More precisely the northwest of eight points from twelve as stars and fate tie luck symbolism. Its color is deep blue or indigo as a mouse appears yielded from a pleasing Pig giving a black toiling ox.
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into a redirect back to the article, hoping to aid navigation. Maybe we can check back, in six years, or so, when people start adding the lists of people born in the year of the rat, again?!
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for being on top of it. I got momentarily distracted, and I guess botched a cut-and-paste. Anyway, I was just going to check on it, but you beat me to it! Now, I've made
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No, we're not. Thanks for noticing. I just deleted it, and I hope it won't come back. Some people keep mistaking
Knowledge for a platform for spreading superstition. --
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So, instead of lists of more-or-less notable people in
Chinese astrology articles, we're going to have compilations of more-or-less notable disasters?
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and then to remove the lists from all of these articles. I'll be dropping a talk page notice on each one, directing editors here. Please chime in. --
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Nothing has changed since then, except that apparently people stopped keeping an eye out for the return of these lists. I propose to
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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as nominator. (This is a reprise from above.) Currently all 12 of the
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936:Yep, I think so too. Upgrading now. --
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973:. I'll go ahead and implement. --
1302:The discussion above is closed.
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1515:— Preceding
1511:
1508:
1454:
1402:Ok, thanks,
1334:
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1284:
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1171:
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1136:
1115:
1030:
1006:
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889:
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778:
758:Eligmodontia
754:Bobak marmot
682:
681:
641:
640:
636:Rodent stubs
628:
627:
591:Hamster ball
571:
570:
554:
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462:
417:
377:
328:
288:
282:China portal
223:
183:
134:
105:project page
97:
96:
40:WikiProjects
1489:Hob Gadling
1472:Hob Gadling
1266:Seems like
1199:Hob Gadling
673:House mouse
611:Rat-catcher
607:Prairie dog
550:(requested)
515:Fancy mouse
30:Start-class
1538:Categories
762:Guinea pig
742:Beaver dam
730:Armintomys
661:Chinchilla
579:Birbalomys
503:Beaver dam
1249:per nom.
1195:WP:FRINGE
1172:Third way
698:Ailuravus
566:Mousetrap
199:Astrology
190:Astrology
162:Astrology
1517:unsigned
1457:Dcattell
1412:Dcattell
1386:Dcattell
1373:Dcattell
1352:Dcattell
1339:Dcattell
1221:Headbomb
1176:Dcattell
1104:contribs
1020:contribs
986:contribs
949:contribs
905:contribs
843:Archives
774:Tokudaia
718:Apodemus
694:Aethomys
599:Pacarana
1289:Hippeus
1268:trivial
1094:Elmidae
1071:Rooster
1010:Elmidae
976:Elmidae
939:Elmidae
916:Elmidae
895:Elmidae
750:Blesmol
734:Batomys
690:Acouchi
548:Lemming
497:Cleanup
447:history
420:on the
393:Rodents
384:rodents
356:Rodents
331:on the
226:on the
137:on the
110:Vietnam
59:Vietnam
1193:. See
1067:Monkey
1051:Dragon
1047:Rabbit
781:Wikify
738:Beaver
684:Verify
677:Rabies
653:Beaver
643:Update
530:Expand
490:Drafts
36:scale.
1272:Some1
1059:Horse
1055:Snake
1043:Tiger
801:Other
630:Stubs
556:Merge
457:purge
452:watch
304:China
295:China
251:China
1525:talk
1493:talk
1476:talk
1461:talk
1431:talk
1416:talk
1394:talk
1377:talk
1360:talk
1343:talk
1325:talk
1293:talk
1276:talk
1255:talk
1251:Sdkb
1214:per
1203:talk
1180:talk
1145:talk
1128:talk
1100:talk
1063:Goat
1016:talk
982:talk
945:talk
928:talk
901:talk
573:NPOV
442:edit
1335:Yes
1285:Yes
1264:Yes
1247:Yes
1218:.
1212:Yes
1191:Yes
1166:Con
1160:Pro
1137:Yes
1116:Yes
1079:Pig
1075:Dog
1035:Rat
1031:Yes
920:RFC
885:.
412:Low
323:Mid
218:Mid
129:Mid
1540::
1527:)
1495:)
1487:--
1478:)
1463:)
1433:)
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1396:)
1379:)
1362:)
1345:)
1327:)
1295:)
1278:)
1257:)
1235:·
1231:·
1227:·
1205:)
1182:)
1154:No
1147:)
1130:)
1122:.
1102:·
1091:--
1039:Ox
1018:·
984:·
947:·
930:)
922:.
903:·
793:•
789:•
772:•
768:•
764:•
760:•
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732:•
728:•
724:•
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675:•
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597:•
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1523:(
1491:(
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1239:}
1237:b
1233:p
1229:c
1225:t
1223:{
1201:(
1178:(
1143:(
1126:(
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1085:.
1077:,
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852:1
803::
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107:.
42::
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