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Talk:Reeves AN/MSQ-77 Bomb Directing Central

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it's usage during that operation with only a few sentences devoted to post-Vietnam war history (mostly about the status of the remaining units, and mostly content that can easily be displayed as table data). If merged and redirected correctly, it should not create a Frankenarticle effect -- unsourced and unreliably sourced information (note the maintenance tag) should be removed, and duplicate information should not be merged. The result is that we would not be maintaining two, sloppy, separate sets of information across two, sloppy, separate articles. We could instead focus on cleaning up and improving a singular, broader article. Organizationally, one way this could fit cleanly is by having the MSQ-77 and TPQ-10 radars each get their own section on the Combat Skyspot page, which would incorporate the appropriate parts of content currently under the "development" and "operations" sections as well as the merged content from the individual radar pages. If necessary, we'd also add a "legacy" or "post-vietnam history" section. We have
2763:. For instance, the line you're referring to about Roosevelt Field and Matagorda Island should be removed as original research. The citation for the Roosevelt Field claim simply contains a quote about a real estate sale that does not mention the MSQ-77 at all, and thus does not support the claim that it was the first MSQ-77 site. The external link for the Matagorda Island claim is to a Tripod blog and should be removed, as well as the subsequent claim about retirements, which is a link to a Google Groups email. Only the last one, noting that a single MSQ-77 is currently a museum piece at Ellsworth AFB, is even valid, and that's a perfectly acceptable data point to merge in a "legacy" section. Even in the lede of the article, the statements about it being used post-war for bomb scoring are not found anywhere else in the body of the article, which is a violation of 562: 719: 698: 497: 1086: 834: 803: 1201: 2274: 481: 1010: 989: 513: 1380: 1362: 957: 844: 1020: 1288: 937: 529: 545: 465: 1133: 1278: 1257: 1112: 53: 590: 1225: 1460:: The BTG simulation used A/C velocities prior to bomb release, so although the A/C flew somewhat steady, the actual release velocity differed due to perturbations (e.g., wind gust at release), velocity corrections not processed by the BTG, and for salvo releases (e.g., B-52 wing and fuselage bombs) the climb rate as the bomb load lightened. (The AN/MSQ-77 could control fighter-bombers conducting 1390: 334: 137: 621: 449: 71: 2651:, so it's not like this is a particularly extreme example, either. As to starting over with a merge request, that seems unnecessary especially in light of the relatively low attention this page has gotten. Unless there's reason it would be controversial (which, if this discussion results in a consensus to merge, it's definitionally not), anyone can simply be bold and do the merge. 1501:: Different simulation rates for computing velocity and position were acceptable when the 6 integrator amplifiers were aligned within tolerances. For example, an out-of-tolerance 1% faster integration for the altitude position output over a 30 sec fall time (0.3 sec) at 600 mph (970 km/h) groundspeed would result in an earlier simulated impact about 264 ft (80 m) short. This 729: 611: 22: 406: 395: 384: 373: 362: 209: 198: 187: 176: 165: 81: 292: 240: 1940: 2734:, also before Vietnam. My only point is, the operation was one use / employment of both systems. But both systems have extensive histories beyond that one operation. In fact, the TSQ-10 is barely mentioned in this article (only appears in 3 spots). I feel that the radar system articles stand alone on their own as well as the 2841:
How did you come to the conclusion that my concerns had anything to do with the number of sources, rather than their content? The count of number of sources has nothing to do with what time period the content of the article focuses on; and if you've followed the discussion above, you'll note that, as
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The problem is that the majority of that content about the MSQ-77's usage outside of Combat Skyspot is either entirely unsourced, or sourced unreliably. What I'm suggesting is that *after* the material that shouldn't be there is removed, there is insufficient content unique to the MSQ-77 remaining to
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I don't think that article title would be correct. "Combat Skyspot" was the name of the operation, not the equipment. However, the operation (ground directed bombing) was specifically designed around the usage of the MSQ-77 ground radar, and the current MSQ-77 article content is almost entirely about
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I tweaked the recent anonymous edits and moved the corresponding quote box and math equation section here for discussion. That content is generally accurate and sourced, but seems to me to be a bit too much detail. If it's not, it can be moved back -- particularly if similar pages have the
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If people feel that there's no consensus here, then the appropriate action would be to either relist (if the reason for no consensus is not enough visibility or discussion), or close as no consensus (if the reason was that sufficient discussion was still unable to lead to a consensus).
1471:: In addition to error in the release delay, errors in the modeling used in the bomb release algorithm reduced bomb release timing accuracy, e.g., modeling errors causing predicted impacts inaccurately closer to the target would delay release until after a more accurate release point. 1712: 2559:(moved by the OP less than a week ago to remove the Hughes), etc. For other naming conventions (e.g. the Tri-Service convention for aircraft names) we regularly name the manufacturer first. So I'm not sure that we're accomplishing anything by moving the manufacturer out of the name. 472: 254: 2608:
Although the articles mention each other, the primary focus of each is significantly different. One highlights technical specification while the other documents a historical event. Which one would be the primary purpose of the merged article; the system or the military
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Ya' know... Now that I've taken a closer look at this article, most of the citations are either dead links or refer to things like a technical manual (tech order) that I can't find anywhere on the web. Maybe you're right and the meat of this thing is rancid. —
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Tadg mentioned, a great many of those sources are either dead links, or wholly unreliable sources. Regardless, the vast majority of the sources, both the invalid ones and the valid ones, refer to the Vietnam War usage of the system during Combat Skyspot.
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provided by the aircrew. Drift error included the delay for the airsteam to effect ordnance released within bomb bays, as well as the delay for salvo-released bombs to separate and have individual aerodynamic loading not affected by the other bombs.
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installation included surveying of nearby peaks' points followed by a "fly-in" conducted for LS-85 geolocation with LS-85--tracked aircraft overflying the points (surveyors on the peaks observed the flyover precision).
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electrical error resulted in the separate AN/MSQ-77 bomb release algorithm comparing the target position & shorter simulated impact and delaying the actual bomb release point from nominal for a physical
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Merging would not particularly improve either article. Today, they are both pretty good in their own way. Merging would risk creating a Frankenstein monster effect; a very large article with a smattered
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was ~16 ft (4.9 m), and the AN/MSQ-77 site position also had error (e.g., slight coordinate system differences for the target and radar coordinates). For example, the LS-85 site estimation after the
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I did not have a conclusion; I was just asking a question. It appears the question is answered in parts of the discussion I did not read. Thanks for the summary. ~
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r = East (X) and North (Y) position from radar and height above earth (Z) for actual/simulated bomb impact and for radar-measured aircraft position (simulated BRP)
1344: 680: 3291: 3186: 2996: 2072: 2046: 917: 2921: 966: 881: 817: 3017:… If I remember right, I submitted a separate request for each of those as well. They each probably have their own discussion, unless I missed them. Thanks. — 1754: 1191: 3391: 3276: 2999:
currently includes four articles with named manufacturers; three Reeves and one Westinghouse. I'd suggest this request be widened to include them. — Cheers,
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But, I’m not completely opposed to merging. Depending on the outcome of this move request, wouldn’t we need to start over with a merge request? —
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which covers both types of system. We do not actually follow a consistent practice when it comes to naming schema for articles under the
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within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the
1403: 1367: 3241: 3166: 3114:. I really only see 2 opinions; one for, and one merge. Not really a reasonable amount of interest for any decision, in my opinion. — 869: 1140: 1117: 3321: 2187:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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a = the modeled accelerations on the bomb that are integrated during the simulation to compute changes in simulated bomb velocity
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
1033: 994: 561: 3381: 2177: 1464:.) Salvo releases also caused the mean bomb release position to differ from the track position used to command bomb release. 33: 642:
on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, you can choose to edit the article attached to this page, or visit the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
1478:: ECC at the simulated bomb impact was based on the simulation's last BRP (actual A/C position when integration 3411: 3041:, it's been a while since you last relisted this with no further discussion after 29 August. I did not see any 2719: 734: 99: 2602: 1950:Δr = simulated displacement of the bomb caused by simulated accelerations and velocities during the trajectory 39: 3143: 3074: 2979: 2961: 2695: 2472: 2456: 2337: 2243: 2135: 303:. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a 718: 697: 1153: 1025: 496: 2825:
it's not clear there's sufficient information specific to the AN/MSQ-77 enough to support its own article
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Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this subsection with
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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2326: 2134:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit 3093: 2848: 2777: 2731: 2657: 2586:… I understand what you’re saying. But, when I made the request, I had verified the vast majority of 2565: 2444: 2421:. I am not able to find any examples like that. But I am open to ideas. Please share your thoughts — 849: 1489:: Crosswind acceleration on the bomb(s) was not constant despite being estimated from the constant 21: 2726:; all of which implies it had quite a long history of use. The TPQ-10 started its life deployed to 1200: 956: 2171: 1085: 3038: 2165: 1526: 1293: 626: 2212:
before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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https://web.archive.org/web/20150128132711/http://combat-skyspot.tripod.com/BusySkyspot.htm
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that are separate from the many operations they were featured in. Just my (one) opinion.
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equipment articles did not use the manufacturer name as prefix to the article title. See
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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https://web.archive.org/web/20101101231201/http://combat-skyspot.tripod.com/CSS.htm
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https://web.archive.org/web/20130118132305/http://virtualwall.org/dc/CookKF01a.htm
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radar systems. The article notes the MSQ-77 began service "in 1958 (long before
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the current article cites 25 sources. How do you come to the conclusion that,
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Not pushing. I'm just not that familiar with the discussion process for moves
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t = time during bomb run, e.g., start and end of the analog integration (t
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v = time-varying A/C velocity used throughout the integration time,
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Martin AN/GSG-5 Battery Integration and Radar Display Equipment
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http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFI11-231.pdf
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WikiProject Military history - U.S. military history task force
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Military science, technology, and theory task force articles
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Hughes AN/TSQ-51 Air Defense Command and Coordination System
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comment. Where do we go from here? Relist again, or move? (
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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B-Class military science, technology, and theory articles
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employment of those systems. Neither were they the only
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comments, and the only real discussion was around one
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B-Class Computer hardware articles of Mid-importance
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Southeast Asian military history task force articles
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This article has been checked against the following
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This article has been checked against the following
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North American military history task force articles
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Military science, technology, and theory task force
430: 344: 147: 3362:B-Class Early computers articles of Mid-importance 3237:United States military history task force articles 2592:Category:Military electronics of the United States 2407:Category:Military electronics of the United States 1934: 1747: 1706: 3222:B-Class Southeast Asian military history articles 3297:B-Class United States articles of Low-importance 3212:B-Class North American military history articles 2645:well over a dozen AN/PRC and AN/URC designations 2182:http://combat-skyspot.tripod.com/BusySkyspot.htm 3232:B-Class United States military history articles 1453: 2997:Category:Radars of the United States Air Force 2190:This message was posted before February 2018. 760:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Telecommunications 3307:Low-importance United States History articles 2594:, but ignore the many redirects listed there. 8: 2714:" and was in-use until "near the end of the 1037:, which collaborates on articles related to 317:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Military history 2545:Martin AN/FSG-1 Antiaircraft Defense System 2399:or including the system name and type like 2148:http://www.virtualwall.org/dc/CookKF01a.htm 521:Southeast Asian military history task force 3312:WikiProject United States History articles 3282:Low-importance Telecommunications articles 3207:Asian military history task force articles 2516:Knowledge (XXG)'s policy on article titles 2512:polling is not a substitute for discussion 2280:It has been proposed in this section that 1356: 1251: 1106: 983: 797: 692: 584: 505:North American military history task force 427: 341: 234: 144: 47: 3372:Mid-importance Computer hardware articles 2682:operation was indeed designed around the 2549:Reeves AN/MSQ-1 Close Support Control Set 2537:Joint Electronics Type Designation System 2126:I have just modified 3 external links on 1906: 1902: 1897: 1869: 1861: 1856: 1849: 1844: 1827: 1822: 1815: 1810: 1794: 1781: 1769: 1764: 1762: 1733: 1722: 1720: 1695: 1682: 1670: 1665: 1642: 1638: 1633: 1608: 1603: 1591: 1562: 1557: 1555: 902:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject United States 537:United States military history task force 2158:http://combat-skyspot.tripod.com/CSS.htm 297:This article is within the scope of the 92:This article is within the scope of the 3357:Mid-importance Early computers articles 3332:Systems articles in systems engineering 3202:B-Class Asian military history articles 2960:have been notified of this discussion. 2381:Reeves AN/MSQ-77 Bomb Directing Central 2282:Reeves AN/MSQ-77 Bomb Directing Central 2128:Reeves AN/MSQ-77 Bomb Directing Central 2045:was invoked but never defined (see the 2031: 2020:, to simulate the bomb release velocity 1358: 1319:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Engineering 1253: 1108: 985: 799: 763:Template:WikiProject Telecommunications 694: 655:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Electronics 586: 236: 49: 19: 3302:B-Class United States History articles 2824: 2718:." It also mentions other sites, like 1421:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Technology 307:. To use this banner, please see the 110:. To use this banner, please see the 3292:Low-importance United States articles 3187:Military aviation task force articles 2553:Reeves AN/MSQ-35 Bomb Scoring Central 1166:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Computing 320:Template:WikiProject Military history 7: 2914:WikiProject United States Government 1521:: Target estimation error from the 1401:This article is within the scope of 1299:This article is within the scope of 1138:This article is within the scope of 1093:This article is within the field of 1031:This article is within the scope of 855:This article is within the scope of 740:This article is within the scope of 120:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Aviation 3392:Low-importance Engineering articles 3277:B-Class Telecommunications articles 2605:as an option. My reservations are: 2073:"1% of 30 sec * 600 mph = 264 feet" 2037: 1051:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Systems 38:It is of interest to the following 3367:B-Class Computer hardware articles 3317:WikiProject United States articles 3267:Low-importance electronic articles 3182:B-Class military aviation articles 2061:http://testvector.com/SkySpot.html 905:Template:WikiProject United States 14: 3347:Mid-importance Computing articles 3257:Post-Cold War task force articles 3177:B-Class military history articles 2934:WikiProject United States History 2730:supporting operations around the 2305:will list this discussion on the 2130:. Please take a moment to review 2100:"Ground-Controlled Radar Bombing" 489:Asian military history task force 3397:WikiProject Engineering articles 3352:B-Class Early computers articles 3272:WikiProject Electronics articles 2415:AN/MSQ-77 Bomb Directing Central 2402:AN/MSQ-77 Bomb Directing Central 2272: 1911: 1907: 1903: 1899: 1870: 1770: 1765: 1671: 1666: 1647: 1643: 1639: 1635: 1615: 1612: 1609: 1605: 1578: 1575: 1572: 1569: 1566: 1563: 1559: 1536:corresponding level of detail. 1388: 1378: 1360: 1322:Template:WikiProject Engineering 1286: 1276: 1255: 1131: 1110: 1018: 1008: 987: 842: 832: 801: 727: 717: 696: 658:Template:WikiProject Electronics 619: 609: 588: 404: 393: 382: 371: 360: 290: 238: 207: 196: 185: 174: 163: 79: 69: 51: 20: 3407:WikiProject Technology articles 3327:Low-importance Systems articles 1505:simulation error caused by the 1424:Template:WikiProject Technology 1339:This article has been rated as 1186:This article has been rated as 1071:This article has been rated as 922:This article has been rated as 780:This article has been rated as 675:This article has been rated as 3287:B-Class United States articles 3252:B-Class Post-Cold War articles 3151:04:26, 16 September 2024 (UTC) 3126:18:51, 10 September 2024 (UTC) 3106:18:28, 10 September 2024 (UTC) 3082:05:10, 10 September 2024 (UTC) 3065:01:33, 10 September 2024 (UTC) 2918:WikiProject Telecommunications 2759:support an article outside of 2740:Would love to hear from others 2480:04:26, 16 September 2024 (UTC) 1975:time to command the release, t 1923: 1917: 1880: 1874: 1800: 1774: 1701: 1675: 1659: 1653: 1627: 1621: 1597: 1584: 1169:Template:WikiProject Computing 743:WikiProject Telecommunications 1: 3172:WikiProject Aviation articles 2504:, then sign your comment with 2447:) 11:32, 25 August 2024 (UTC) 2393:for the article to be either 2263:Requested move 16 August 2024 1743: 1415:and see a list of open tasks. 1313:and see a list of open tasks. 1232:This article is supported by 1208:This article is supported by 1160:and see a list of open tasks. 964:This article is supported by 944:This article is supported by 754:and see a list of open tasks. 123:Template:WikiProject Aviation 3387:B-Class Engineering articles 3337:WikiProject Systems articles 3247:Cold War task force articles 2922:WikiProject Military history 2432:22:29, 16 August 2024 (UTC) 2317:). Please base arguments on 1235:Computer hardware task force 1054:Template:WikiProject Systems 457:Military aviation task force 300:Military history WikiProject 3402:B-Class Technology articles 3262:B-Class electronic articles 3029:05:03, 27 August 2024 (UTC) 3009:14:16, 25 August 2024 (UTC) 2987:12:03, 25 August 2024 (UTC) 2969:12:02, 25 August 2024 (UTC) 2907:22:29, 16 August 2024 (UTC) 2875:15:23, 29 August 2024 (UTC) 2861:15:11, 29 August 2024 (UTC) 2837:15:04, 29 August 2024 (UTC) 2807:22:50, 27 August 2024 (UTC) 2790:17:03, 27 August 2024 (UTC) 2754:15:10, 27 August 2024 (UTC) 2736:myriad of aircraft articles 2670:08:04, 27 August 2024 (UTC) 2630:05:29, 27 August 2024 (UTC) 2578:02:54, 27 August 2024 (UTC) 2463:12:03, 25 August 2024 (UTC) 766:Telecommunications articles 3428: 3342:B-Class Computing articles 2221:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2123:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 1979:actual bomb release, and t 1514:by about the same amount. 1345:project's importance scale 1211:Early computers task force 1192:project's importance scale 1077:project's importance scale 928:project's importance scale 786:project's importance scale 681:project's importance scale 365:Referencing and citation: 168:Referencing and citation: 3242:B-Class Cold War articles 3167:B-Class aviation articles 2942:WikiProject United States 2728:Guantanamo Bay Naval Base 2405:. For many examples, see 1546:20:13, 14 July 2012 (UTC) 1451:AN/MSQ-77 Modeling Errors 1373: 1338: 1271: 1231: 1207: 1185: 1126: 1092: 1070: 1003: 963: 943: 921: 858:WikiProject United States 827: 779: 712: 674: 604: 568: 551: 535: 519: 503: 487: 471: 455: 426: 323:military history articles 285: 64: 46: 3322:B-Class Systems articles 2893:Any additional comments: 2720:Nellis AFB Bombing Range 2603:AN/MSQ-77 Combat Skyspot 2258:00:37, 24 May 2017 (UTC) 967:WikiProject U.S. history 863:United States of America 735:Telecommunication portal 632:This article is part of 570:Post-Cold War task force 3142:: Final relist. Best, 2950:WikiProject Electronics 2930:WikiProject Engineering 2696:Ground-directed bombing 2391:JETDS naming convention 2119:External links modified 1302:WikiProject Engineering 635:WikiProject Electronics 431:Associated task forces: 376:Coverage and accuracy: 179:Coverage and accuracy: 3382:All Computing articles 2946:WikiProject Technology 2321:, and keep discussion 1936: 1755:t_{2}},\quad }" /: --> 1750: 1748:{\displaystyle {t: --> 1708: 1532: 1404:WikiProject Technology 1228: 1204: 1154:information technology 1089: 1026:Systems science portal 960: 940: 908:United States articles 565: 548: 532: 516: 500: 484: 468: 452: 409:Supporting materials: 337: 212:Supporting materials: 140: 28:This article is rated 2954:WikiProject Computing 1937: 1751: 1709: 1475:Bomb release position 1457:Bomb release velocity 1227: 1203: 1141:WikiProject Computing 1088: 959: 939: 564: 547: 531: 515: 499: 483: 467: 451: 336: 139: 32:on Knowledge (XXG)'s 3110:My vote would be to 2958:WikiProject Aviation 2732:Cuban Missile Crisis 2647:that are covered by 2350:requested move/dated 2338:subst:requested move 2319:article title policy 2315:closing instructions 2309:current discussions 2202:regular verification 2041:The named reference 1761: 1719: 1718:t_{2}},\quad }": --> 1554: 1325:Engineering articles 850:United States portal 95:Aviation WikiProject 2938:WikiProject Vietnam 2926:WikiProject Systems 2722:and more including 2597:As to merging with 2192:After February 2018 1868: 1834: 1427:Technology articles 1095:Systems engineering 1034:WikiProject Systems 876:Articles Requested! 661:electronic articles 555:(c. 1945 – c. 1989) 553:Cold War task force 398:Grammar and style: 351:for B-class status: 201:Grammar and style: 154:for B-class status: 2246:InternetArchiveBot 2197:InternetArchiveBot 1932: 1840: 1806: 1745: 1744: 1704: 1468:Bomb release delay 1294:Engineering portal 1229: 1205: 1172:Computing articles 1090: 961: 941: 757:Telecommunications 748:Telecommunications 704:Telecommunications 627:Electronics portal 566: 549: 533: 517: 501: 485: 469: 453: 338: 305:list of open tasks 141: 34:content assessment 3153: 3140:Relisting comment 3104: 2989: 2976:Relisting comment 2971: 2859: 2788: 2668: 2576: 2482: 2464: 2448: 2378: 2377: 2373: 2356: 2286:renamed and moved 2222: 2078:Google calculator 1443: 1442: 1439: 1438: 1435: 1434: 1396:Technology portal 1355: 1354: 1351: 1350: 1250: 1249: 1246: 1245: 1105: 1104: 1101: 1100: 982: 981: 978: 977: 796: 795: 792: 791: 691: 690: 687: 686: 648:project talk page 583: 582: 579: 578: 575: 574: 422: 421: 309:full instructions 233: 232: 229: 228: 225: 224: 126:aviation articles 112:full instructions 3419: 3148: 3138: 3118: 3103: 3101: 3100: 3097: 3091: 3079: 3071:TadgStirkland401 3057: 3021: 2984: 2974: 2966: 2911: 2899: 2858: 2856: 2855: 2852: 2846: 2799: 2787: 2785: 2784: 2781: 2775: 2746: 2708:Matagorda Island 2667: 2665: 2664: 2661: 2655: 2622: 2575: 2573: 2572: 2569: 2563: 2508: 2502: 2496: 2477: 2465: 2461: 2449: 2433: 2425: 2419:Reeves AN/MSQ-77 2388: 2358: 2353: 2341: 2332: 2304: 2293: 2276: 2275: 2269: 2256: 2247: 2220: 2219: 2198: 2169: 2111: 2110: 2108: 2107: 2096: 2090: 2089: 2087: 2086: 2081: 2069: 2063: 2058: 2052: 2051: 2050: 2044: 2036: 1983:at actual impact 1941: 1939: 1938: 1933: 1916: 1915: 1914: 1910: 1893: 1889: 1873: 1867: 1866: 1865: 1855: 1854: 1853: 1833: 1832: 1831: 1821: 1820: 1819: 1799: 1798: 1786: 1785: 1773: 1768: 1756: 1753: 1752: 1746: 1739: 1738: 1737: 1713: 1711: 1710: 1705: 1700: 1699: 1687: 1686: 1674: 1669: 1652: 1651: 1650: 1646: 1620: 1619: 1618: 1596: 1595: 1583: 1582: 1581: 1498:Integrator error 1429: 1428: 1425: 1422: 1419: 1398: 1393: 1392: 1382: 1375: 1374: 1364: 1357: 1327: 1326: 1323: 1320: 1317: 1296: 1291: 1290: 1280: 1273: 1272: 1267: 1259: 1252: 1174: 1173: 1170: 1167: 1164: 1135: 1128: 1127: 1122: 1114: 1107: 1059: 1058: 1057:Systems articles 1055: 1052: 1049: 1028: 1023: 1022: 1021: 1012: 1005: 1004: 999: 991: 984: 910: 909: 906: 903: 900: 852: 847: 846: 845: 836: 829: 828: 823: 820: 814:Military history 805: 798: 768: 767: 764: 761: 758: 737: 732: 731: 730: 721: 714: 713: 708: 700: 693: 663: 662: 659: 656: 653: 629: 624: 623: 613: 606: 605: 600: 592: 585: 438: 428: 412: 408: 407: 401: 397: 396: 390: 386: 385: 379: 375: 374: 368: 364: 363: 342: 325: 324: 321: 318: 315: 314:Military history 294: 287: 286: 281: 246:Military history 242: 235: 215: 211: 210: 204: 200: 199: 193: 189: 188: 182: 178: 177: 171: 167: 166: 145: 128: 127: 124: 121: 118: 89: 84: 83: 82: 73: 66: 65: 55: 48: 31: 25: 24: 16: 3427: 3426: 3422: 3421: 3420: 3418: 3417: 3416: 3412:Requested moves 3157: 3156: 3144: 3116: 3098: 3095: 3094: 3089: 3075: 3055: 3019: 2980: 2962: 2897: 2889: 2853: 2850: 2849: 2844: 2797: 2782: 2779: 2778: 2773: 2744: 2704:Roosevelt Field 2662: 2659: 2658: 2653: 2620: 2570: 2567: 2566: 2561: 2506: 2500: 2494: 2488: 2473: 2457: 2423: 2384: 2374: 2347: 2335: 2307:requested moves 2300: 2289: 2273: 2265: 2250: 2245: 2213: 2206:have permission 2196: 2163: 2136:this simple FaQ 2121: 2116: 2115: 2114: 2105: 2103: 2098: 2097: 2093: 2084: 2082: 2075: 2071: 2070: 2066: 2059: 2055: 2042: 2040: 2038: 2033: 2009: 2002: 1995: 1982: 1978: 1974: 1968: 1964: 1960: 1956: 1898: 1857: 1845: 1839: 1835: 1823: 1811: 1790: 1777: 1759: 1758: 1729: 1716: 1715: 1691: 1678: 1634: 1604: 1587: 1558: 1552: 1551: 1533: 1518:Targeting error 1452: 1448: 1426: 1423: 1420: 1417: 1416: 1394: 1387: 1324: 1321: 1318: 1315: 1314: 1292: 1285: 1265: 1171: 1168: 1165: 1162: 1161: 1120: 1056: 1053: 1050: 1047: 1046: 1043:systems science 1024: 1019: 1017: 997: 907: 904: 901: 898: 897: 896: 882:Become a Member 848: 843: 841: 821: 811: 765: 762: 759: 756: 755: 733: 728: 726: 706: 660: 657: 654: 651: 650: 625: 618: 598: 436: 410: 405: 399: 394: 388: 383: 377: 372: 366: 361: 322: 319: 316: 313: 312: 248: 213: 208: 202: 197: 191: 186: 180: 175: 169: 164: 125: 122: 119: 116: 115: 87:Aviation portal 85: 80: 78: 29: 12: 11: 5: 3425: 3423: 3415: 3414: 3409: 3404: 3399: 3394: 3389: 3384: 3379: 3374: 3369: 3364: 3359: 3354: 3349: 3344: 3339: 3334: 3329: 3324: 3319: 3314: 3309: 3304: 3299: 3294: 3289: 3284: 3279: 3274: 3269: 3264: 3259: 3254: 3249: 3244: 3239: 3234: 3229: 3224: 3219: 3214: 3209: 3204: 3199: 3194: 3189: 3184: 3179: 3174: 3169: 3159: 3158: 3155: 3154: 3136: 3135: 3134: 3133: 3132: 3131: 3130: 3129: 3128: 3034: 3033: 3032: 3031: 2972: 2909: 2888: 2885: 2884: 2883: 2882: 2881: 2880: 2879: 2878: 2877: 2817: 2816: 2815: 2814: 2813: 2812: 2811: 2810: 2809: 2769:Combat Skyspot 2761:Combat Skyspot 2680:Combat Skyspot 2649:Survival radio 2635: 2634: 2633: 2632: 2616: 2615: 2614: 2610: 2599:Combat Skyspot 2595: 2533:Combat Skyspot 2529:Combat Skyspot 2521: 2520: 2495:*'''Support''' 2487: 2484: 2376: 2375: 2357: 2331: 2297: 2296: 2277: 2264: 2261: 2240: 2239: 2232: 2185: 2184: 2176:Added archive 2174: 2160: 2152:Added archive 2150: 2142:Added archive 2120: 2117: 2113: 2112: 2102:. 28 July 2002 2091: 2064: 2053: 2030: 2029: 2025: 2024: 2023: 2022: 2021: 2014: 2011: 2007: 2000: 1993: 1984: 1980: 1976: 1972: 1970: 1966: 1962: 1958: 1954: 1951: 1948: 1942: 1931: 1928: 1925: 1922: 1919: 1913: 1909: 1905: 1901: 1896: 1892: 1888: 1885: 1882: 1879: 1876: 1872: 1864: 1860: 1852: 1848: 1843: 1838: 1830: 1826: 1818: 1814: 1809: 1805: 1802: 1797: 1793: 1789: 1784: 1780: 1776: 1772: 1767: 1749:t_{2}},\quad } 1742: 1736: 1732: 1728: 1725: 1703: 1698: 1694: 1690: 1685: 1681: 1677: 1673: 1668: 1664: 1661: 1658: 1655: 1649: 1645: 1641: 1637: 1632: 1629: 1626: 1623: 1617: 1614: 1611: 1607: 1602: 1599: 1594: 1590: 1586: 1580: 1577: 1574: 1571: 1568: 1565: 1561: 1515: 1495: 1483: 1472: 1465: 1450: 1449: 1447: 1444: 1441: 1440: 1437: 1436: 1433: 1432: 1430: 1413:the discussion 1400: 1399: 1383: 1371: 1370: 1365: 1353: 1352: 1349: 1348: 1341:Low-importance 1337: 1331: 1330: 1328: 1311:the discussion 1298: 1297: 1281: 1269: 1268: 1266:Low‑importance 1260: 1248: 1247: 1244: 1243: 1240:Mid-importance 1230: 1220: 1219: 1216:Mid-importance 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267:Southeast Asia 243: 231: 230: 227: 226: 223: 222: 220: 218: 217: 216: 205: 194: 183: 172: 158: 157: 155: 142: 132: 131: 129: 91: 90: 74: 62: 61: 56: 44: 43: 37: 26: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 3424: 3413: 3410: 3408: 3405: 3403: 3400: 3398: 3395: 3393: 3390: 3388: 3385: 3383: 3380: 3378: 3375: 3373: 3370: 3368: 3365: 3363: 3360: 3358: 3355: 3353: 3350: 3348: 3345: 3343: 3340: 3338: 3335: 3333: 3330: 3328: 3325: 3323: 3320: 3318: 3315: 3313: 3310: 3308: 3305: 3303: 3300: 3298: 3295: 3293: 3290: 3288: 3285: 3283: 3280: 3278: 3275: 3273: 3270: 3268: 3265: 3263: 3260: 3258: 3255: 3253: 3250: 3248: 3245: 3243: 3240: 3238: 3235: 3233: 3230: 3228: 3225: 3223: 3220: 3218: 3215: 3213: 3210: 3208: 3205: 3203: 3200: 3198: 3195: 3193: 3190: 3188: 3185: 3183: 3180: 3178: 3175: 3173: 3170: 3168: 3165: 3164: 3162: 3152: 3149: 3147: 3146:Reading Beans 3141: 3137: 3127: 3124: 3123: 3119: 3117:TadgStirkland 3113: 3109: 3108: 3107: 3102: 3092: 3085: 3084: 3083: 3080: 3078: 3077:Reading Beans 3072: 3068: 3067: 3066: 3063: 3062: 3058: 3056:TadgStirkland 3052: 3048: 3044: 3040: 3039:Reading Beans 3036: 3035: 3030: 3027: 3026: 3022: 3020:TadgStirkland 3016: 3012: 3011: 3010: 3006: 3002: 2998: 2994: 2991: 2990: 2988: 2985: 2983: 2982:Reading Beans 2977: 2973: 2970: 2967: 2965: 2964:Reading Beans 2959: 2955: 2951: 2947: 2943: 2939: 2935: 2931: 2927: 2923: 2919: 2915: 2910: 2908: 2905: 2904: 2900: 2898:TadgStirkland 2894: 2891: 2890: 2886: 2876: 2872: 2868: 2864: 2863: 2862: 2857: 2847: 2840: 2839: 2838: 2834: 2830: 2826: 2822: 2818: 2808: 2805: 2804: 2800: 2798:TadgStirkland 2793: 2792: 2791: 2786: 2776: 2770: 2766: 2762: 2757: 2756: 2755: 2752: 2751: 2747: 2745:TadgStirkland 2741: 2737: 2733: 2729: 2725: 2721: 2717: 2713: 2709: 2705: 2701: 2697: 2693: 2689: 2685: 2681: 2677: 2673: 2672: 2671: 2666: 2656: 2650: 2646: 2641: 2640: 2639: 2638: 2637: 2636: 2631: 2628: 2627: 2623: 2621:TadgStirkland 2617: 2613:organization. 2611: 2607: 2606: 2604: 2600: 2596: 2593: 2589: 2585: 2581: 2580: 2579: 2574: 2564: 2558: 2554: 2550: 2546: 2542: 2538: 2534: 2530: 2526: 2523: 2522: 2519: 2517: 2513: 2505: 2501:*'''Oppose''' 2499: 2493: 2490: 2489: 2485: 2483: 2481: 2478: 2476: 2475:Reading Beans 2471: 2470: 2462: 2460: 2459:Reading Beans 2455: 2454: 2446: 2442: 2439: 2438: 2431: 2430: 2426: 2424:TadgStirkland 2420: 2416: 2412: 2408: 2404: 2403: 2398: 2397: 2392: 2387: 2382: 2372: 2368: 2364: 2361: 2355: 2351: 2345: 2339: 2330: 2328: 2324: 2320: 2316: 2312: 2308: 2303: 2295: 2292: 2287: 2283: 2278: 2271: 2270: 2267: 2262: 2260: 2259: 2254: 2249: 2248: 2237: 2233: 2230: 2226: 2225: 2224: 2217: 2211: 2207: 2203: 2199: 2193: 2188: 2183: 2179: 2175: 2173: 2167: 2161: 2159: 2155: 2151: 2149: 2145: 2141: 2140: 2139: 2137: 2133: 2129: 2124: 2118: 2101: 2095: 2092: 2079: 2074: 2068: 2065: 2062: 2057: 2054: 2048: 2035: 2032: 2028: 2019: 2015: 2012: 2006: 1999: 1992: 1988: 1985: 1969:) as well as 1952: 1949: 1946: 1945: 1943: 1929: 1926: 1920: 1894: 1890: 1886: 1883: 1877: 1862: 1858: 1850: 1846: 1841: 1836: 1828: 1824: 1816: 1812: 1807: 1803: 1795: 1791: 1787: 1782: 1778: 1740: 1734: 1730: 1726: 1723: 1696: 1692: 1688: 1683: 1679: 1662: 1656: 1630: 1624: 1600: 1592: 1588: 1550: 1549: 1548: 1547: 1543: 1539: 1531: 1528: 1524: 1520: 1519: 1513: 1508: 1504: 1500: 1499: 1492: 1488: 1487: 1481: 1477: 1476: 1470: 1469: 1463: 1459: 1458: 1445: 1431: 1414: 1410: 1406: 1405: 1397: 1391: 1386: 1384: 1381: 1377: 1376: 1372: 1369: 1366: 1363: 1359: 1346: 1342: 1336: 1333: 1332: 1329: 1312: 1308: 1304: 1303: 1295: 1289: 1284: 1282: 1279: 1275: 1274: 1270: 1264: 1261: 1258: 1254: 1241: 1238:(assessed as 1237: 1236: 1226: 1222: 1221: 1217: 1214:(assessed as 1213: 1212: 1202: 1198: 1197: 1193: 1189: 1183: 1180: 1179: 1176: 1159: 1155: 1151: 1147: 1143: 1142: 1137: 1134: 1130: 1129: 1125: 1119: 1116: 1113: 1109: 1096: 1087: 1083: 1082: 1078: 1074: 1068: 1065: 1064: 1061: 1044: 1040: 1036: 1035: 1027: 1016: 1014: 1011: 1007: 1006: 1002: 996: 993: 990: 986: 973: 970:(assessed as 969: 968: 958: 954: 953: 949: 948: 938: 934: 933: 929: 925: 919: 916: 915: 912: 899:United States 893: 890: 888: 885: 883: 880: 878: 877: 873: 871: 868: 867: 864: 860: 859: 851: 840: 838: 835: 831: 830: 826: 819: 815: 810: 809:United States 807: 804: 800: 787: 783: 777: 774: 773: 770: 753: 749: 745: 744: 736: 725: 723: 720: 716: 715: 711: 705: 702: 699: 695: 682: 678: 672: 669: 668: 665: 649: 645: 641: 637: 636: 628: 622: 617: 615: 612: 608: 607: 603: 597: 594: 591: 587: 571: 563: 559: 558: 554: 546: 542: 541: 538: 530: 526: 525: 522: 514: 510: 509: 506: 498: 494: 493: 490: 482: 478: 477: 474: 466: 462: 461: 458: 450: 446: 445: 442: 440: 435: 434: 429: 425: 418: 416: 411:criterion met 403: 400:criterion met 392: 389:criterion met 381: 378:criterion met 370: 367:criterion met 359: 358: 357: 356: 353: 350: 349: 343: 340: 335: 331: 330: 327: 310: 306: 302: 301: 296: 293: 289: 288: 284: 280: 279:Post-Cold War 276: 272: 271:United States 268: 264: 263:North America 260: 256: 252: 247: 244: 241: 237: 221: 219: 214:criterion met 206: 203:criterion met 195: 192:criterion met 184: 181:criterion met 173: 170:criterion met 162: 161: 160: 159: 156: 153: 152: 146: 143: 138: 134: 133: 130: 113: 109: 108: 103: 102: 97: 96: 88: 77: 75: 72: 68: 67: 63: 60: 57: 54: 50: 45: 41: 35: 27: 23: 18: 17: 3145: 3139: 3121: 3111: 3076: 3060: 3050: 3046: 3042: 3024: 2992: 2981: 2975: 2963: 2902: 2892: 2802: 2749: 2739: 2712:Busy Skyspot 2711: 2691: 2625: 2587: 2539:. See, e.g. 2524: 2509: 2503: 2497: 2491: 2474: 2468: 2467: 2458: 2452: 2451: 2436: 2435: 2428: 2418: 2414: 2410: 2401: 2400: 2395: 2394: 2379: 2359: 2343: 2333: 2298: 2279: 2266: 2244: 2241: 2216:source check 2195: 2189: 2186: 2125: 2122: 2104:. Retrieved 2094: 2083:. 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