Talk:Religion in the European Union

2211:

Bolshevik face, that's why I am sad... What is nutured inside Poland is a kind of anti-humanism. Our government is supported by the Polish Catholic Church. What does our government tell us? That now comes the «gay pest», which is more or less the same as the «red pest». It is an idiocy which even Ceaușescu could not utter. In Poland, this Bolshevik mentality, a mentality of despise, of superiority, it remained... There is a great madness all over all post-Communist countries. We all think that our own people is noble, innocent, never did any harm unto others. According to this idea we judge those around us. If somebody says that that's not completely true, he/she is regarded as a traitor to the country

1550:"Due to increased secularization, Christians in EU member countries face increased disenfranchisement and intolerance. According to Christian based non-profit organizations, Christians increasingly experience governmental interference with their religious liberty, freedom of expression and conscience. In the media, Christians are often portrayed using negative stereotypes and Christian student groups are excluded from institutions of higher learning. Also, desecration and vandalism of Christian sites has grown steadily in recent decades numbering in the thousands each year, particularly in France and Germany." 2567:

possible = allomathematics = different mathematics/ they don't have to be useful/ some are good for task-specific solutions/ nobody stops you to create infinite axiomatic systems/ the axiomatic system of all axiomatic systems = omniaxiomatics = pantoaxiomatics = universal axiomatics doesn't exist / the taboos aren't logically fundamental thus rejecting allomathematics for reasons outside rigorous logic is a hollow biased mistake) versus axiomatic ontological systems (all infinite possible physics and their universe-like substantialities)

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respond on the ANI thread in such a way as to indicate that you will respect this and stop the personal attacks and edit warring - otherwise you are going to get a lengthy topic ban. I'll say now (and I am a Catholic with a background in science) that I am concerned about what Midgely calls 'scientism' namely the creation of a new and intolerant religion a la Dawkins et al. But that is long way from the position you are adopting. -----

179: 74: 189: 158: 53: 22: 84: 1740:, "religiously motivated hate"? I don't think that's an objective or neutral statement, more like your personal opinion. You do understand that other Abrahamic faiths hold much of the same doctrines in respect of social constructs. Though, just like with anything there are numerous variations of that (conservative/liberal). But, you only single out Christians as "hateful". -- 1444:, this type of information about issues facing Christians in the EU is absolutely appropriate for this page and it has reliable reference sources. Just removing the text citing NPOV, comes across as nothing more than sanitizing the article. You can not just delete sourced statements on real issues facing a religious community, it's nothing more than a case of 1946:

In the media, Christians are often portrayed using negative stereotypes and Christian student groups are excluded from institutions of higher learning. Also, desecration and vandalism of Christian sites has grown steadily in recent decades numbering in the thousands each year, particularly in France and Germany."

1945:

Due to increased secularization, Christians in EU member countries face increased disenfranchisement and intolerance. According to Christian based non-profit organizations, Christians increasingly experience governmental interference with their religious liberty, freedom of expression and conscience.

1851:

I can't see any equivalent of your proposed edits here, which are sourced from sites which are highly partisan in nature. Neither can I see anything on either article about persecution of Christians. You have to come up with third party sources before you can make any statement. I also suggest you

1722:

I've removed your text, simply because what it says is blatantly false. It would be fine if it said that some christians might _feel_ that reducing some of their privileges, for example no longer turning a blind eye at religiously motivated hate, are an "interference with religious liberty"; instead

1374:

And the UK's data in those tables will be useful to people who want to know what religion in the EU was like in 2010 and 2015, when those surveys were taken. Removing the UK from those tables is like the USSR airbrushing people out of photos. If a person dies, you don't digitally remove them from all

1194:

I think it's not written right. Most of information is based on surveys from some part of country. When you ask 1000 people it does not mean there is this percentual cut of this religion and that religion. In big cities it's completly different than countryside. It should be based on official census.

2566:

The vast majority of atheists care too little about physicalism/logicalism (typical logicism is mathematics focused; metaphysical logicism = logicalism recognizes the difference between axiomatic proof systems (like mathematics and their hyponymic geometries; infinite axiomatic systems are logically

2210:

At first, we were fighting against Sovietization. Bolsheviks let us speak our own language, but not what we want. Everything changed. Today we only hear the slogan Poland for Polish people. We got rid of Bolsheviks, but we kept our mutual despise for each other. Now we have an anti-Bolshevism with a

1342:

There the muslim population in the european union is shown with 3.8 percent as of 2010 (not mix up with europe, which is 6%). This correlated with a lot of other studies, ranging from 3-5%. Today 2018 after the refugee crisis the population will be higher of course. But good valid data is difficult

1754:

Religiously motivated hate is a fact, not a "statement", neutral or not. And indeed, it's not specific to Christianity, nor does it apply to all Christian denominations; while spewing hate is the modus operandi for e.g. Catholic Church in Poland, there are quite a few Christian denominations that

1698:

Users Tammbeck and Trasz reverted text related to issues facing Christians, backed up by reliable reference sources, without providing any sort of constructive feedback other then its "NPOV" or "not neutral". Issues facing Christians today in the EU is absolutely appropriate for this article, and

793:

page which has been expanded with figures to hand. Feel free to expand upon it by giving a counter weight to examples from Western European by giving examples from Eastern Europe - though do note this is meant to have a union-wide perspective rather than just list each countries situation. I look

1632:

There are two problems with this. First, it makes it appear as if the "intolerance" is real, and not just a feeling of some of the Christians. Second, it fails to mention that those "interferences with religious liberty" are in fact cases of reducing religious privileges in response to some

2574:

Logicalism = metaphysical logicism is to logically seek the axiomatic prerequisites for physical foundations (quantum foundations in our local universe), abiogenesis, soulless neuroscience, etc. Logicalism: to accept logic = logical axiomatics and procedures as the self-causal foundations of

1174:

I modified the pie chart and checked back to the source for names. I used different shades of blue to purple for the various forms of Christianity (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Other Christian) and different shades of red to differentiate atheists from agnostics/non-believers (the survey

2160:

That's a ridiculous argument, that "Christians are still the majority of EU inhabitants", so they can't be marginalized, they were also the majority in many of the communist countries and were marginalized. With input like that who can argue, this is so out of wack it should be struck down.

1515:, the tone is fully appropriate, you are just sanitize the article. I will raise this issue because this is blatant bias. The reason it's clear that you are stone walling is because you are not providing any recommendations, no constructive feedback — just delete, cause its "not neutral". -- 2501:

I edited Life Force out of the section of which countries "don't believe in a God, Spirit or Life Force" because Life Force is the energy and the functioning inside living organisms. Sone people may not believe in spiritual elements, but this mostly relates to scientific things.

2193:

you just proved my point that there is a degree of political/ideological bias in how this issue is being handled on Wikipeida. No wonder, other editors can make disparaging remarks my way, but I make a similar comparison in the opposite direction and I got a sanction heading my way.

1545:

Proposal to include the following text in the Secularization section, so far the text was reverted, but other than short blurps: "NPOV", "Needs to be rewritten with neutral tone" and "much better sources needed" no meaningful explanations or constructive feedback was provided:

1343:

to find. I would suggest to update in first step the chart to the same as in the other wikipedia article and then find a better source. It is important to show the correct data, so the public also see when minorities and religious groups need to be represented.

837:

May I remind Esimal that this is a serious educational tool, not a blog or reenactor community. Please provide a single source in regards to "Paganism" being regarded as a religion within the European Union. Otherwise you'd perhaps be best stuck to blogging. -

1369:

By all means remove the UK when talking about the EU as it currently is (since the UK is no longer part of the EU). However, I believe the UK's data from the two religion surveys on this page, conducted in 2010 and 2015, should stay.

2033:

the language used in the proposed text is inline with the passive tone set in other sections of this article, also the issue of Christian marginalization in various EU member countires has been the subject of a discussion by the

2570:

The term logicalism is deeper than physicalism because many physicalists aren't clear about their different views inside physicalism or they are easily attacked by antiphysicalists who disparagingly misdefine physicalism.

2123:

Supporting a viewpoint yes, making a statement in Knowledge's voice no and this largely fails per . Knowledge is not a place for someone who wants to make an ideological point and I suggest you step back a bit from this

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Does the following text proposed for the Secularization section contain "neutral language" and does it present the issue from a "neutral point of view", and is it appropriate for inclusion in this article?

2300:

Already the first words "due to increased secularization" contain a strong unsourced statement. The rest is overgeneralizing and no differentiation among different EU member states has been made. --

1530:

The text on secularization and issues facing Christians uses almost the identical tone as the last paragraph in the Church and State section, so to just say the tone is not neutral is a stretch. --

2041:, so this is a legitimate issue, which is appropriate for this type of article. Also, if the current sources cited are not comprehensive enough, others can be found as additional reference. -- 1372:

The UK was in the EU at the time that the surveys were conducted. The surveys don't claim to portray EU religion as it is in 2020. They claim to portray EU religion as it was in 2010 and 2015.

2099:, which states that "Sometimes non-neutral sources are the best possible sources for supporting information about the different viewpoints" also in conjunction, pls see this article form the 2632: 1699:

removing this text citing some undefined neutrality arguments is nothing more than sanitizing this article, which in fact amounts to a POV push. Pls look through related articles, such as

2578:

Atheism is a comment. A negation of the ideas of others. All words are useful. But logicalism = physicalism = metaphysical naturalism = exclusive positivism = absolute rationalism are

2175:

Communist states were totalitarian. EU has democracies. In fact, the opposite can be said about Poland and Hungary: they are led by Christian radicals who despise liberal democracy.

1195:

Article says there is 12% of protestants, only German Evangelical Church and Church of England have nearly 50M members. I am sorry but I have to say: Eurobarometer is lying source!

2542:

physicalists/metaphysical naturalists/logicalists = metaphysical logicists: people who focus on affirmative absolute rationalism: axiomatic prerequisites for physical foundations (

2443:, not with this sources. However, a general discussion on discrimination/marginalisation of (different tribes of) Christians, Muslims, Jews, non-religious persons would be welcome. 2505:

Atheism is basically people who don't believe in God, Heaven or Hell or any kind of fantasy or strong supernatural. That's literally it. There's nothing else involved.

780:

EU is made out of individual countries and this article presents a view that shows it as a single unified region in regards to religion and its role in society and politics.--

2247:, you quote Adam Michnik? First off, that's just his opinion, and second, there is plenty of accusations that like Walesa he was steered by the communist secret service. -- 2359: 2035: 1319:

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not.

861:

without citing sources, here are the figures for the individual countries (as available 2009). The total for 2009 is about 13 million. These figures are taken from

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needs a reassessment of its Importance level, as it has little to do with atheism and is instead an article about anti-theist/anti-religious actions of governments.

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Most of the article is stricly from West European point of view. It completely ignores situation of religion in politics and society in countries like Poland.--

2283:, I think the sources are too poor to support these claims. I have seen no evidence that the sources given have a reputation for fact checking and accuracy. 2664: 2654: 1229: 460: 2588:

Metaphysical worldviews are gradient. Many atheists are mild logicalists or logicalist friendly. But most of them don't practically care about logicalism.

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Adam Michnik in Stefan Both, Disident polonez legendar, despre România post '89: „Iliescu a salvat țara pentru că n-a ales calea lui Miloșevici“

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on Barroso inaugurating a "European synagogue", not sure how we would fit it in here though. Anyone seen anything similar we can put it with?-

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spatiotemporal coexistence of phenomena within compatible frameworks (different physics aren't compatible in the same universe).

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because it is an important worldview difference (in many cases; it's complicated because metaphysical worldviews are gradient).

2407:, this is written neutrally as long as the claim is cited as coming from the organizations that are being used as the sources. 1445: 1885: 1816: 1704: 1237: 1222: 425: 227: 203: 163: 2056:

The source you've linked to uses fighting hate crime as an example of intolerance against christians. Enough said, I guess?

1707:

to see that they contain the same type of statements related to issues or problems facing various religious communities. --

1693: