Talk:Russo-Ukrainian War/Archive 7

1989:

therefor it's very reliable", you'd see that they don't have any qualms about throwing even the most basic editorial policies aside to print fabricated government propaganda while not reporting or even bashing opposing views. As far as geopolitical issues are concerned the media in ANY country with a vested interest will stick to their government's narrative, no matter how far removed from the truth, and that goes just as well for Western media as for state-run propaganda machines. That tendency is more than well-documented enough to consider its implications here. So while the IP calling the journalists "dimwits" etc does not help his argument, his main point that when ascribing statements to government representatives primary sources such as press conference transcripts are to be preferred to secondary sources from the "other side" is valid. There's no such thing as a "reliable source" from a country involved in an ongoing geopolitical crisis, the closest thing to it is probably media from some uninvolved country such as say South Africa or something. In a few years when the dust has settled that'll change, it always does when reports start to surface grudgingly admitting to "errors in reporting", but at this time it's nothing but propaganda from both sides.

2111:

the referendum. Let's look at what Putin said in Russian: Поэтому за спиной сил самообороны Крыма, конечно, встали наши военнослужащие. For those that don't understand Russian ask someone who does and read it in context of all that he said! Here we can arrive at the sure conclusion that 'backed' means 'gave moral support and military guarantees'. Just as the US criticised the referendum and made threats, Russia supported it and made threats – nothing more. To report it as the Washington Post did is immoral and unprofessional. Brings into question the reliability of this source (likely not an isolated incident). Furthermore everyone knows that there were Russian troops in Crimea. But the insertion above makes it seem that they were all over it! Which is not what Putin is saying nor has he ever said it. Conclusion: This should be amended to, On 17 April, Russian president Vladimir Putin stated that the Russian troops present at the Russian naval base in Crimea during the referendum supported it, saying "Of course, Russian servicemen backed the Crimean self-defense forces".

2182:... As the Ukrainian presidential election scheduled on May 25 gets closer, Kremlin's window of opportunity for invading the country and derailing its European course is gradually narrowing. The rhetoric of Russian President Vladimir Putin justifying the Anschluss of Crimea and unscrupulous meddling in Ukraine's internal affairs has been based on the premises that there is no legitimate government in Kiev, that it is being run by a gang of Nazis and anti-Semites who took power by coup d'etat and terrorised Russians and Russophones all over the country. 1167:, the degree to which this can be characterized as an "intervention" is at issue. It seems to me that the article is rather bloated, and the scope needs to be redefined in order to bring it into a more accurate correspondence with the statements of RS on this point. It is a partisan, highly charged issue, but as the section "Legal aspects" demonstrates, Russia has sufficient grounds for its actions, and there are statements calling those actions into question that are unsourced at present. -- 1760:. Reunification seems to represent only one side, and one opinion, in this conflict between Ukraine and Russia. I've seen many sources in the media from Ukraine and in the western media that would reflect it as an invasion of sovereign Ukrainian territory. Clearly, both sides have argued here for nearly a month now, which is why I believe the article title has, to this point, remained "intervention" rather than either of the more POV statements: "invasion" or "reunification." 982:. Again, the official sources have referred the issue back to the larger ongoing Crimean crisis as the focus of the story. It isn't an isolated incident meant to be taken separate from, or more notable than, the overarching Crimean crisis that it warrants special mention as a standalone article of some sort. When future generations and the history channel speak of this event, they will almost always look at it in that context. Perhaps we can dedicate a standalone 3354:

similarly declared independence from the Kiev coup. how would events have transpired has russia not intervened? Would Crimea be involved in this bloody civil war as well? this article is quite biased and doesnt see the humanitarian aspect of this intervention. it also fails to mention the public vote to join the russian federation as anything but a ballot stuffed farce with voters having burly rusky guards with AK-47s 'helping' voters to make the right choice.

225:. First, to have such article we need enough serious sources which not only use the words "Russian military intervention in Ukraine" but consider this invention in details. Second, no need to duplicate the information about Crimean crisis in multiple articles. Most information from this article already included in other articles about Ukrainian crisis and much better for the reader and for quality of wiki to combine all material in as few artiles as possible. 31: 2587:

secessionist fighting (and that we know the history of the region well), irredentism is an accurate definition and would serve better to bind the nature of the crises as related events. I'd also consider that it would afford readers the opportunity to find related articles in order for them to build up a better picture of the events outside of out-of-context mass media information which revolves around current events.

729:: The military intervention is not a "stand alone" event on its own, but part and parcel of the general crisis and cannot be separated on its own. Thus my strong argument in favour of a merge. The concern of the length of the resulting article can be ameliorated by putting the long list of people subject to sanctions as a "collapsed" list that appears only when you ask for it specifically. 2934:

manipulation (edited pictures of supposed russian soldiers). What about the absence of satellite views of the supposed russian troops? A paragraph on the discussion about sources should be included. It's a minimum minimorum! And what about US presence in Ukraine, especially through an Akademi mercenaries brigade of 400 soldiers? No, seriously, this a joke, right?

1912: 1299:"The fact that Russian troops continue to amass at the Ukrainian border" is not an intervention. Military intervention means state's use of military force against another state. Concentration of forces near the border is not an intervention. Moreover, in the present case all movements of Russian army near the border are internationally legal. 2781:, so why are you asking for sources? Discussions do tend to meander outside of the scope of article talk page guidelines occasionally. That was recognised and, essentially, it was over by the time you added your 2¢ worth. I've just had this on my watchlist to keep my eye out for unwarranted POV changes with the focus now being on the 3363:

there are people with Ukranian flags there, something is definitely wrong, either with where the photo was taken, or with how you describe it. Can you please check, what kind of a protest it was that day, what organizations took part in it, and where the photo came from, because now there is clearly some sort of mistake. Thank you.

1420:

with others that there's plenty more than just the military invasion aspect of this situation - the world political ramifications alone are an equally-large part of this (speaking from the perspective of Knowledge (XXG)). Thus, I oppose a merge, and it seems clear that consensus to support a merge is not going to happen.

3053:

are refugees). In the shelling of of cities Ukrainian army uses cluster and phosphorous bombs. Targets for attacks Ukrainian army, of artillery and aircraft become homes, orphanages, schools and hospitals. Only 2 July airstrike victims home where people live inside cities are 12 civilians (children pensioners).

602:. Just their presence is not an intervention. 3) The article is mostly compilation of information from newspaper articles. But to have a separate article we need reliable sources which consider the intervention in details so we can conclude that the substantial material is large enough for a separate article. 3353:

the article fails to discuss the potential benefits to the Crimean people by Russian military intervention. the article frames the intervention as a violent takeover. by no means is the Kiev government legitimate and continues to wage a civil war against its own people including territories that have

2933:

The whole article is a joke (and a disgrace for WP) being merely a review of the impact in the press of Nato's and Kiev putchists' communiqués. And no mention is made of those accusations of russian military presence in Ukraine that run on the front page of the NYT and were later recognised as gross

2830:

principle. OR would have sufficed. The editor who made the change has not disputed it. I'm assuming it's because he's astute enough to realise that we'd gotten carried away. Speculation going off track happens. I would have pulled it myself since I'd had time to sleep on it. Had you spotted it first,

2716:

Nope, not yet. Can I ask why you're so involved in facilitating conversations among editors? Do you have special privileges to do that? And why would you encourage creative inventions like "irredentism" without any sources to support this very innovative claim? Sources please, otherwise, I invite you

2068:

I believe this behavior may be dangerous for keeping the neutrality of the wikipedia intact and advice to revise or revert the edits made by this user. I have purposely not in engaged in such action, as i would not like to act hastily and would be glad if someone else also revised the user's actions.

1028:

Well, yes but you could argue the same about the Russian intervention; if it weren't for the Crimean crisis of 2014, the Russian intervention would never have occurred. Regardless, that's not a reason for either keeping or merging the article; I could argue that because they are simply results of the

747:

The military intervention has received massive media coverage, resulted in condemnation from many governments and international bodies as well as effects such as economic sanctions. Yes, the intervention is part of the Crimea Crisis, but the intervention is too large to adequately cover in the Crimea

504:

The military intervention has received significant media attention and has become a significant geo-political issue. The movement of Russian forces into the Crimea is significant enough to meet notability requirements and warrant an article. This is not a minor event that can be adequately covered in

2433:

good point, the fact that the troops are on the border ready to invade and have violated airspace several times is enough. Plus, they went into Kherson oblast. Add on top of this all the documented cases of Russian veterans and paramilitary involved in terrorism in the east and its pretty far flung.

1988:

To paraphraze Chomsky "The interesting thing about media in Western democracies is that they don't need to be forced to act as propaganda, they volunteer for the job". If you'd look at the actual track record of the Washington Post's reporting on geopolitical issues, rather than going "It's US media

1581:

Let's keep our terms straight. A "military intervention" is not determined by the number of deaths as a result of military involvement. If military force is used (equipment and military personnel with guns, etc.) to intervene, then that is a military intervention. It is not mere diplomacy ("let's

1280:

As the situation develops, it may be sensible to merge, but for the time being I recommend we think of the Crimean article as being about a particular battle/event (some of which involves Russia, some of which involves Crimean insurgent-types) and "Russian Military Intervention" as writing about the

1013:

The treaty and the referendum were a direct result of the intervention. Without the intervention, it would have never occurred. I would also like to point out that the media hasn't moved on, but is covering the Russian intervention as it develops (and they will almost certainly continue to do so for

657:

until we come up with a more sophisticated solution. Both articles are already so large that they are hard to navigate, and if you go over the fine-grained information, at least 75% of this article is original - a "simple" merge will produce a 230k page in the running for "longest non-list article".

147:

I would, however, recommend that the involved editors discuss these specific points to see if some minor issues need to be resolved (ie the points I've included above). I would also suggest that yet another move or merge discussion in the near future would be counter productive to the whole process.

133:

The support discussions were less focused and were often about different solutions or options for merge or move. Many discussions pointed to the fact that there is duplicate information in both articles and that this is not a stand alone separate event. One support pointed out that Crimea would be a

2414:

For some reason, editors insist on glossing over the military intervention in other articles. This is one of the few places where you can read about the events. When Russian invasion is allowed to be mentioned in other articles, perhaps this article will become unnecessary. As of right now, there's

2226:

Why are they in the infobox? Unlike the other military units of Russia, their presence in the infobox isn't backed by any citations whatsoever. Also keep in mind that the editor who added that info is an IP address. Normally I'd revert un-sourced info but I don't want to get reverted as well or get

1863:

My view: that statement is both 1) POV and 2) added without a Talk page consensus. I'll flag that here, with this comment, and see what others may wish to comment about it, or see if some consensus might be built for the phrase to stay in the article. If not, then it should be removed. Cheers.

1812:

I really don't see any argument here. There is no point of view that Crimea was never part of Russia, and there is no point of view that Russia has not annexed Crimea, whether or not one wants to recognize it. Occupation and reunification are not mutually exclusive; they can occur at the same time.

1419:

Here's a couple of points I'd like to add to the discussion: First, per others before me, there's plenty of overlapping material in the two articles. If an experienced editor took the time to do so, the size of the merged article wouldn't be quite as large as it may initially seem. However, I agree

122:

as being an issue with a merge. Any small group of good editors working in collaboration could easily merge any two articles regardless of length in an appropriate manner. We should remember that this is an encyclopedia, so not every word is notable or required. I have dismissed these arguments in

3293:

I can cite many sources of NATO in Ukraine, but whether you should trust if I do not trust - Russian occupation of Ukraine? Although about 1,000 years Ukraine Belarus and Russia was one state - Russia or Lithuania or Russia + poland + Russia. You think that it is different of state today. Although

3052:

In Ukrainian mdaN number of victims among the civilian population were 250 people, including 40 children. OSCE observers left Lugansk security reasons Been continued with shelling in Russia with Ukrainian side (at least 5 cases on different days, strikes are delivered customs points on which there

3025:

Eastern Ukraine See also: 2014 pro-Russian conflict in Ukraine and Timeline of the 2014 pro-Russian conflict in Ukraine March 2014 The Ukrainian Air Force conducted an unprecedented large-scale exercise involving 100 MiG-29s and Su-27s, 23 Su-24s, 39 L-39s and 60 anti-aircraft battalions operating

2618:

There was a Russian invasion. I am not sure why obscure euphemisms should be used instead. Irredentism actually raises much bigger issues, as it suggests a wider Russian effort to occupy lands inhabited by Russian speakers. This also strengthens the analogy with Nazi Germany taking Sudetenland - a

2246:

My concern is that this article has the Donbass insurgency and Kherson Oblast under it's scope and Donetsk People's Republic under Russia as a Belligerent in the infobox. So my question is where are the sources confirming that the Russian military is involved? The words "alleged" and "claimed" are

2148:

My interpretation is logical based on the spoken context (the phrases used around it) and the historical context (Putin and Russia's foreign minister have consistently said that Russia's military has not been involved). Does anyone have a counter of these two arguments? No 'smacks' please, logical

2110:

In the first paragraph, someone wrote: On 17 April, Russian president Vladimir Putin admitted that Russian troops were in fact present in Crimea during the referendum, saying "Of course, Russian servicemen backed the Crimean self-defense forces," and that their presence was necessary to facilitate

1635:

This is one aspect of a wider geo-political event, which (as a whole) is too wide-ranging to shoe-horn into a single article. It's a very important and highly notable aspect, so should get its own article. I see around 4500 news articles currently live on G News for search 'russia troops ukraine'.

3362:

The photo, which you describe as "15 March anti-war protests in Moscow" actually shows a man with a transparency that says "Crimea is ours, now we need Alaska" and also the red flags with yellow wheels in the background are well-known to be used as a symbol of Russian nationalists, so even though

2586:

irredentism crisis" serves as a better descriptor. Given that the RF rationale for military intervention was 'to protect it's own people', and that Euromaidan, the military intervention in Crimea, and long time self-identification tensions all served as a catalyst to the current Eastern Ukrainian

2356:

Good that the material was moved out, based on my understanding of the nature of that material. However, I have a quibble with you on your statement about the Crimea focus, as I don't believe that is quite right. Per the title, and numerous proposals/discussions to rename or merge the articles,

138:

in showing that there was undue weight within this article simply because there has been (and still is) a rather abundance of media coverage. This editor argued that simply because there is a bunch of verbiage covering a certain event does not create enough importance to separate it from the main

126:

The oppose arguments generally surrounded around the idea that the military intervention is a large part of the crisis. Some pointed out that the interventions is more than just the specific invasion and includes fall out from other governments including political recourse. Other arguments showed

2893:

By looking at the Russian military intervention in Ukraine as an isolated event, and not as part of a greater context, a certain bias is introduced. Specifically, Ukraine, US and NATO are shown as merely reacting to Russian aggression. The impression given is that the English-language Knowledge

1047:

My statements regarding the treaty were meant to prove that the intervention is still getting extensive media coverage and that the media hadn't "moved on". Regardless, my claim that the intervention deserves its own article due to the government sanctions, troop movements, long list of official

658:

There are multiple other articles up for merging into this one; attempting to lump in all the military details is impractical. It might work out if the merge is divided among the crisis, timeline, and international reaction articles, but some kind of military events article may prove necessary.--

1275:

for now. Crimean crisis is a particular event that involves some people who may or may not be Russian. The fact that Russian troops continue to amass at the Ukrainian border means (to me) that there is a wider thing going on that this article represents. I forget the WP essay / guideline, but

693:

One of the changes is that there is still no any intervention except of in some media. But to have a good wiki article on such sibject we need to have reliable soures beyond newspapers. We need to have enough publications of experts in world conflicts which discuss the intervention in details.

113:

First I want to start by saying this merge discussion is very complex and quite possibly might have been brought up too soon since the most recent discussion. Also, having a move request open at the same time as a merge discussion complicates matters That being said, I'm formally closing this

1731:

Is there any evidence for having "too many socks and SPAs"? All i can see is mostly Volunteer Marek accusing everyone who disagrees with him, or even asks him to explain one of his reverts on the talk page, of being a sock. And one or two instances where SPAs were involved in editing, hardly

963:

Notnews is meant to prevent the creation of articles about insignificant events that get a day or two of news coverage, but are otherwise not notable. It does not mean that current events are inherently non-notable. Also, how can you determine that the Russian intervention is not of lasting

762:

How can we decide what it was too large? From the article the intervention looks as very minor. How many were killed, how many troops were involved, how many shoots were done? Probably only media coverage was large. But then the paper has to be renamed in "Media coverage of Russian military

3105:

Similarly, journalists and covered an airstrike against the administration of Lugansk in early June, which killed civilians. Then they assumed that the militia mistakenly hit of MANPADS in air conditioning. They had to admit the truth only after the OSCE observers confirmed the airstrike.

142:

These arguments on both sides all have merit as valid points in this discussion. If there were a solution that encompassed all or most of these points (which individually could be necessary to fix various minor issues) it would be more beneficial than a lateral move or merge situation.

903:. ot every incident that gains media coverage will have or should have a Knowledge (XXG) article. A rule of thumb for creating a Knowledge (XXG) article is whether the event is of lasting, historical significance, and the scope of reporting (national or global reporting is preferred). 1209:. Of course there's a lot of overlap, but there's more to the Crimean crisis than a military intervention, and both are sufficiently rich topics to have their own articles. Also, since events are still developing, who's to say that Russian military intervention will end with Crimea? 118:. From a pure !vote standpoint, it looks like there are 14 supports and 17 opposes (+/- 1). At least two editors voted twice (not counted) and the support arguments were often supporting different final merge or even move results. Many opposes, maybe a majority, cited or alluded to 1531:

Okay: three comments rely entirely on size (others that mentioned it also had more substantial argumens). That leaves (at present) 14 in support, 15 opposed, and still no real consensus. Requiring that everyone on one side engage your specific arguments would give them unfair

1941:

Can we all please agree to stop making references to what Putin said in his speeches to propaganda outlets like Washington Post. Putin has a site called kremlin.ru where you can read his transcripts in English without some western dimwit journalist telling you what he said.

2641:

simply because EU and, more particularly, US interests in the region are equally geopolitical. What's the favourite political technique deployed for all economic, geopolitical pushes if not playing the nationalism card? That's hardly a revelation. 'Invasion' is absolutely a

861:

Strictly speaking, they are not different since one is a part of another. The articles are lentghly but much of the material is duplicated and multiplicated in tens of arcles on this overall subject. The material which has to be moved in the main article is not that much.

1694:

What do other registered eds think? Are IP and SP issues making things difficult or are things under control? I have been stalking closely with the very occ edit. Be good to get thoughts before events on the ground intensify, if they do. I am leaving a copy of this on

883:

Article scope and size are more a issue of technical feasibility and whether or not someone is willing to do it than an actual argument against merger. None of the arguments so far have been convincing in the sense of policy-based rationales. Let's turn to

1231:

A merge should happen, as it is one crisis, not separate military and political crises. However, there an abundance of rich material available in this particular subject. I propose that a merge does occur, and that this should be added to a section in the

2483:

A "secession crisis" implies an indigenous attempt to break away from another country. In this case the campaign was Russian-orchestrated. Accordingly calling this a secession crisis is misleading. It has a lot more in common with an invasion by another

910:, the tendency for new and current matters to seem more important than they might seem in a few years time. Many events receive coverage in the news and yet are not of historic or lasting importance. News organizations have criteria for content, i.e. 1611:

since they are better off there than they are in this article. I agree "military intervention" isn't necessarily defined by the number of deaths, but a "crisis" can be a military conflict and would evidently involve military force in this case (e.g.

1509:" issues are irritatingly irrelevant when much of the article is duplicated. The only relevant issue that should be given any weight is simply whether the topic merits a standalone article rather than a merge into a section of the other article, and 2187:

Such a claim, however calumnious and fully disproved on the ground by independent observers, opinion polls and the minorities themselves, can be sold nonetheless to some audiences, at least Russian, willing for various reasons to be fooled.

597:

The subject is neither well defined nor notable enough. 1) Some sources say that the troops "possibly" Russian, or "they wear Russian uniform", or anything else not definite. 2) Much of the Russian army was legally in Crimea for decades by

2064:

has only ever contributed to wikipedia by recently editing articles related to the Ukraine crisis, removing any references criticizing the Russian front or restating the facts in order to contribute to the positive Russian profile.

1076:

The article in its present state is too broad in .scope (what "military intervention" in Ukraine outside of the Crimea?) and composed from an insufficiently focused collection of statements that are by and large sourced to news

804:

It is correct that the military operation is part of the crisis. But the question is not this. The question is if it deserves a separate article or can be included in the main article without loosing singificant information.

3297:

I do not see the point in dispute. It is a matter of trust between opposite of each other. Probably you have the right not to believe me. Since you have your sources, but not sources from distant countries such as Germany

429:

that used military force from a (previously?) adjacent nation state to exert some form of control over that territory of (what was then Ukrainian Crimea, but is now less clear what adjective would be appropriate) Crimea.

2803:

You're not supporting the idea? My apologies. That's not what I got from reading your comments. Apparently one other person didn't get that either. Sorry. "Of course it was geopolitical in the immediate context. To state

1048:

government statements regarding the intervention, various skirmishes, political and economic effects of the intervention and intense media coverage still stand. The article more than meets general notability requirements.

1236:

article as description of what happened during the crisis, with reductions, of course. The current version of that article focuses heavily on the aftermath and the background, but not so much on what actually happened.

1455:

currently 12 support merge, 16 oppose merge (counting my vote), and one exclusively in support of a name change if my counting skills haven't failed me. Wanted to add this as a standalone comment for clarity's sake.

2664:

There are plenty of sources to support the term "invasion." Before you get consensus to ignore yet another policy and tell yet another lie, perhaps you would like to list sources that support "irredentism." Really?

2149:

clear arguments. Assuming that a source is verifiable and reliable on the basis that it is mainstream western media is wrong as proven over and over again, and it's that sort of thinking which is dragging WP down.

364:

Too soon for another discussion, but since somebody made a request, I'll just say that I oppose because the military involvement of this article is separate from the political and internal involvement of the other

1164: 465:

It could be reasonable if reliable sources considered in details the military intervention as a separate subject. There are no such sources. The subject does not deserve enough attention to be a separate article.

134:

better name than Ukraine as it is more specific to this intervention. Another support pointed out that there is no good sourcing showing that this event was separate from the whole crisis. One editor referenced

994:

weight. Anyway, the repeatedly raised complaints about "article size" are mere technicalities; it is only a matter of getting someone willing to shrink this down to an appropriate size to fit the main article.

2270:

I think it is quite straightforward. Without reliable sources of Russian MILITARY intervention in the more general uprisings occurring in the eastern region of Ukraine, then that material is out of scope for

2333:

I have gone ahead and moved the section out of the article, this article should focus on Crimea and Russia's military actions there and along the border with Ukraine. If you see something out of place be

3029:

This is a lie, and moreover was not 100 Mig29, besides 40 remained in the Crimea. and were later returned but they are incapable of fighting and can not even fly. And the C200 for over a year scrapped.

2596:

I'd like to know whether others who have been involved in developing this article (or have been following its development) are interested in commenting on the proposal. All input is welcome. --

979: 181:

The title reads as if the Russian military intervention is the only event and there were no other political developments within the Ukraine. This could be compared with the German military

3408:

All of these web links have little to say about what you mean. This news, the news about the war in Ukraine. Who talk about the sins of Ukraine Legal. But not about ukraine antimaydan.

127:

that the Crisis article covered more of the political side of the whole crisis, while this article was focused on the military involved actions, therefore being two separate thoughts.

1491:

True, the result would probably not change if those numbers were reversed. As with previous debates over this article, "no consensus" seems to aptly describe the community position.--

1014:

the foreseeable future). I would also argue that the Russian Intervention is not being given undue weight, as it has received substantial media coverage and and governmental response

1088:

The military movements outside of Ukraine were a direct response to the intervention in Ukraine. They demonstrate that the intervention has had political effects outside of Crimea.

1860:. It looks like someone has added the "...reunification of Crimea with Russia..." back into the article, after it was removed per Talk page consensus around the 31st of March. 1115:". Some of the comments address their Support/Oppose position to that specific proposal. Others, by there text, are Supporting/Opposing something else entirely (e.g., changing 2521: 925:

Because of this, I dispute that people will single out this particular event as being any more important than the overarching Crimean crisis. Just because a news station says

2531:

links), protests in Sevastopol began on 23 Feb., both took place well before takeover of the Supreme Council Building by the "polite people" (which happened on 27 February).

2255:. If the Russian military is indeed conformed to be a part of the militia then I see no reason why it should not be included but for now its a he said she said situation. - 978:

And the Russian intervention has enjoyed what, probably only a week of coverage before the news station moved on to the next major event in Crimean history - the signing of

2275:

article and I would support removal. Having said that, probably best to add the removed material to one of the more general articles on the Ukrainian situation. Cheers.

2294: 1192:- Hugely redundant to have two articles for what is effectively the same thing. I'm not even going to say "merge" because so much of the material is already duplicated. - 2646:

push, and there is nothing balanced about using such a term. Sorry, but we're here to build an encyclopaedia (that is coherent, informative content for the reader), not

1608: 918:

may be interesting enough to reporters and news editors to justify coverage, but this will not always translate into sufficient notability for a Knowledge (XXG) article.

3000:

Ukraine does not have S-300 ps or B1 or any other for many years. last C-300 remained in the Crimea. On this there are many excellent very good sources. Including a

1763:

I have tagged this statement for now, while leaving it in the article, so that discussion might be had on the Talk page. What think others? ... and why? Cheers.

2554: 843:. They are related, but different subjects. Also agree with some that each article is already quite lengthy, therefore a combined one would be rediculously long. 2731:

Can I ask why would I need special privileges to involve myself in discussions on talk pages? Can I ask whether you have special privileges to engage in endless

1398:

The same: both articles contain plenty of overlapping material and material of minor relevance which can be deleted. Hence size is not a suitable argument here.

2416: 1145:

1)The articles are too large to merge, but regardless, I think the Russian military intervention is important enough that it's worthy of a separate article.

1966:

The Washington Post is not a "propaganda outlet" nor are their staff "dimwits". Concerning the edits you are making, please refrain from injecting your own

3141: 2545:

Secession crisis is somehow correct (because peninsula seceded from Ukraine), but if "secession" seems inacceptable, I'd like to propose an alternative: "

2357:

this is about any Russian MILITARY involvement in Ukraine as part of the current/2014 kerfuffle. It is not merely about Crimea nor the Crimean Peninsula.

1557:

only 1 human died, nothing militaristic about it, more people die every day from police brutality in the US than in this so called military intervention.

933:: "Terrorist blow up Russia/Ukraine in protest" does not mean Knowledge (XXG) should cover it, especially if in the future people will remember it less. 1359:

Both articles contain plenty of overlapping material and material of minor relevance which can be deleted. Hence size is not a suitable argument here.

2972:

The Insurgency in Chechnya and the North Caucasus: From Gazavat to Jihad Praeger Security International By Robert W. Schaefer, Publ. ABC-CLIO, 2010

1756:

It appears to me that the statement "the reunification of Crimea to Russia." in the third sentence of the lede is unbalanced, and does not reflect a

3152: 1324:" I think they should be merged providing "Russian Military Intervention in Ukraine" is it's own section on the "2014 Crimean Crisis" article page. 3313:

Term "occupation" is by any means not suitable for describing military cooperation, dear ruskiy puppeteer. Events that followed what you claim as

2227:

banned from giving input on the situation. For those who support the FSB's presence in the infobox state your reasons with citations and sources.

2415:

too much Russian propaganda everywhere else, so unfortunately, this article is very necessary. Did you see the section about Russian military in

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is used are somehow irrelevant because a lot of material is repeated in both articles. And the parts that are not duplicated should be moved to

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The "2014 Russian Military Intervention in Ukraine" is simply the Russian side of the story that is a subsection of the parent event... The "

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the for example you believe that Alaska is the U.S., though it's only 150 years old and it was Russia, BUT! 1,000 years it was the Indians.

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a merger with the 2014 Crimean crisis article. Rationale: it is fine to have two articles in Knowledge (XXG), one dealing with the overall

185:, really? Or did you see any Russian tanks in Kiev? "Pro-Russian protests in other parts of Ukraine" in this contents is perhaps a joke? -- 2192: 3322: 2982: 2935: 2619:

comparison Putin has been at pains to avoid. The primary motive for Putin's invasion of Crimea was geopolitical rather than irredentist.

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This is not really the right place for this if you would like to ask for administrative assistance then you need to mention it over at

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They're two articles about the same thing. The amount of redundancy is way too high and it's a huge pain for both readers and editors.

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groups. Anti-Putin opposition is split between liberals and nationalists. "Crimea is ours, now we need Alaska" was probably meant as

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Just google 'Russian military intervention in Ukraine' and you'll find not even the most biased mainstream media backing this up.

2057: 1949: 914:, that differ from the criteria used by Knowledge (XXG) and encyclopedias generally. A violent crime, accidental death, or other 3254: 885: 1380:. Both articles are too big to merge. In addition, I think the intervention is notable enough to warrant a separate article.-- 2976: 2210: 1783: 1682:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/comunity/3376585-s-nachala-ato-na-donbasse-pohyblo-bolee-250-myrnykh-zhytelei-mynzdrav

2459:(i.e. it's existence disputed, reported only by one side). Hence it says "alleged involvement in the Eastern Ukraine". 2366:

So it was correct to remove any material that didn't have Russian Military involved with it, but it was removed for

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Russian involvement and possible warlike activity perpetuated specifically by the Russian country/military. Peace,

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http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/politics/3376543-nabluidately-obse-pokynuly-luhansk-yz-soobrazhenyi-bezopasnosty

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or vice versa, etc.). Net: you will have to read carefully and not just count up Support/Opposes when making the

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Motion has already being rejected twice. I don't see how the situation has changed enough to merge the articles.

510: 492: 200: 786:. The military intervention is an actual military operation that is part of, but not the same as, the crisis. -- 3413: 3344: 3303: 3124: 3088: 3067: 3038: 3013: 2954: 2343: 2302: 2260: 2095: 2046: 1779: 580: 47: 17: 2740: 2666: 844: 3326: 2986: 2939: 1778:

The so-called "reunification" comes from a pro-Russian POV. It's a biased euphemism that should be removed.--

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Comment: It is not clear why we are hanving this discussion again so soon after the last one was closed as

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I'd like to see a proper closure of this discussion though, because the continuous comments about article "

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It is my interpretation of this discussion that there is NO CONSENSUS for merging the article at this time.

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significance? Regardless of what occurs, the intervention is going to have a substantial impact on Crimea.

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are you failing to understand? Are you reading it as, "N'ah, (it's all about my) POV"? Ever encountered

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http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/04/ukraine-russia-propaganda-thre-201441112542990923.html

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RS state that the only Russian military intervention was in Crimea, so this one should be folded into

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For suitable vocabulary to describe the situation, we may want to draw inspiration from the articles

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How many died as a result of this intervention? Zero? Wish all military interventions be like this.

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I agree, all of these Ukraine-Russia articles should be locked down IMO, too many socks and SPAs --

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http://novostii-2014.ru/novosti-ukrainy-3-iyulya-2014-situaciya-na-ukraine-segodnya-3-iyulya.html/

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http://novostii-2014.ru/novosti-ukrainy-3-iyulya-2014-situaciya-na-ukraine-segodnya-3-iyulya.html/

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on behalf of those who wishing to reduce information into simplistic, black and white concepts. --

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Aside from Crimea (where Russian involvement was confirmed by both sides), it seems to be sort of

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There WAS Russian military intervention in Ukraine proper, albeit covert.02:20, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

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What the hell is going on? Any reason why you've !voting twice? Don't do that, it's misleading. --

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Can you cite any credible reports in reliable sources? I don't see any after a quick search. --

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These are tabloid headline tactics, using a title like this to mislead the unsuspecting reader.--

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One oppose editor suggested that there may be an issue, but there needs to be a better solution.

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Russian (chechen) Vostok was disbanded in 2008, after Georgia's attempted invasion in Osetiya.

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to stop pointless, irritating duplication. Same event, different name, not difficult to see.

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I agree. What some people call a reunification, others call an invasion or an occupation.

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talk talk about our differences following recent events in Ukraine and Russia). Cheers.

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but i feel i must state the worying issues on this article as well, as the user has been

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Crimean crisis they should be merged back as a subsection of the Crimean crisis article.

1970:, Putin made no mention of the troops being from the base, this is your own injection.-- 3263:

If not a full fledged article, where could these accusations be added? which article?

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Absolutely agree. Knowledge (XXG) should present an unbiased view of occurring events.

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and leave a note here. Isn't that the way working collaboratively is supposed to go? --

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those comments that have refuted my points regarding this should be given any respect.

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article, but as it stands currently this is giving one out of a string of news reports

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being used in the article to support this information, something that is both against

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Only Russian military intervention was in Crimea, so this one should be folded into

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interested in keeping the Russian profile on these wiki pages as clean as possible.

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there are too many Russian troops on the ground not to be an intervention/invasion.

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For wikipedia to have an article about it does not seem like 'undue weight' to me.

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How is it separate? The military intervention and political turmoil surrounding it

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It's OR. The change was made and correctly reverted by a third editor under the

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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All this labor easy to verify check sources in English, Russian and Ukrainian.

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No one has revisited "irredentism" as it became self evident that it would be

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in all its dimensions, and another on one specific aspect of that crises, the

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something you would call so many socks that the page needs to be protected.

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beware of user 77.51.99.2 and other freshly-created users with russian IPs

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Political crisis is one and secound is military intervention Russian Army.

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Of course it was geopolitical in the immediate context. To state this is

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includes the military occupation, ] and a number of non-military events.

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There are a lot of accusations from Russia that America is in Ukraine.

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Hmm. Agreed, Seryo93. Secession is valid in the context. Nevertheless, "

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What would you consider to be a neutral and more accurate descriptor? --

2174:"Ukraine: Russian propaganda and three disaster scenarios" -- Al Jazeera 1809:: to bring together again (something, esp a country, previously divided) 3240: 3174: 3163: 3110: 3099: 2674:

Even Estonia is getting prepared for a Russian invasion, just in case.

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Invasion is also POV. Protests in Simferopol began on 21 February (see

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on article talk pages that involve anything to do with Ukraine? Can't

2669:. "Geopolitical" is not OR if it's supported by sources, and it is. 2314:

I agree, I kinda gave up on this article as it crept out of scope --

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to go to your own personal talk pages to discuss military theory.

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involving foreign intervention, and Crimea is nowhere near that).

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the discussion. The specific proposal is and was: "Merge with

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Article is called 2014 Russian MILITARY intervention in Ukraine

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To cite my concern: It is alarming that, for example the user

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No, this is don`t joke. US soldiers in Ukraine. Andy Werner

1891:. The Crimea could reasonably be termed an irredenta, IMO. 1752:"the reunification of Crimea to Russia." is a POV statement 2297:

so a-lot of information here could just be dulplicate. -

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reason, not because it was outside of Crimea. Cheers.

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http://world.rayti.ru/worldconflicts/article_1404378603

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What is your argument to keep two separate articles?

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http://rian.com.ua/incidents/20140702/354391817.html

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This is part and parcel of the broader crisis (i.e.

2965:Russian (chechen) Vostok was disbanded 6 years ago 2812:" "This" referring to "geopolitical." Never mind. 2295:Timeline of the 2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine 1609:List of military units in the 2014 Crimean crisis 2894:(XXG) pages have become a PR battlefield. ˜˜˜˜ 2831:I would have considered it remiss of you not to 2785:article. Given this fact, can you explain where 1689:Sounding. Should this article be Semi-Protected? 1254:. Related buf different topics. 14 interwikies. 2130:. We go by verifiable, reliable sources here. - 897:not an indiscriminate collection of information 111: 201:2014_Ukrainian_revolution#Russian_involvement 8: 2293:I am going to do that now, we already have 1563:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwytoxMuk4U 400:The military intervention is not separate. 123:this closure as they simply do not apply. 3255:2014 NATO military intervention in Ukraine 3249:2014 NATO military intervention in Ukraine 2045:I have already stated my concerns on this 3056:Ukraine accused of shelling opposition. 339:01:59, 20 March 2014; 23 March 2014 (UTC) 3186:http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=1754071 3134: 1341:. Both articles are too big to merge.-- 1165:Partition Treaty on the Black Sea Fleet 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 3026:Buk-M1, S-300V1 and S-300PS systems. 2105: 1453:Additional comment...running tally is 937:Knowledge (XXG) is not a news station 7: 3336:you forgot another 700 years before 3164:http://www.1tv.ru/news/social/262274 2783:2014 pro-Russian conflict in Ukraine 2522:ru:Крымский кризис#Митинг 21 февраля 1476:. I'd just like to make that clear. 169:The following discussion is closed. 3241:http://russian.rt.com/article/38942 3175:http://russian.rt.com/article/39007 3111:http://russian.rt.com/article/41229 3100:http://russian.rt.com/article/41229 886:Knowledge (XXG):Notability (events) 3253:Possible to have such an article? 2222:FSB and Spetsnaz (Alfa and Vympel) 1258:violation after possible merging. 24: 2553:irredentism crisis"), because of 1676:The discussion above is closed. 1163:In light of the existence of the 929:: "Russia has invaded Crimea" or 1910: 1278:"wikipedia is not on a deadline" 261:we already had this discussion. 29: 2126:This interpretation smacks of 2106:Russia's involvement in Crimea 2088:The admin incident noticeboard 640:. Same dog different collar. — 114:discussion per the request at 1: 3077:I hope it's a good editing? 3022:this chapter and the text--- 427:Russian military intervention 162:) 20:37, 18 April 2014 (UTC) 3385:It was organized by several 906:Editors should bear in mind 2996:Ukraine does not have S-300 2741:Knowledge (XXG):Get over it 2667:Knowledge (XXG):Get over it 1856:Thank you for your comment 3433: 2348:17:01, 26 April 2014 (UTC) 2328:16:50, 26 April 2014 (UTC) 2307:16:47, 26 April 2014 (UTC) 2285:16:06, 26 April 2014 (UTC) 2265:20:59, 24 April 2014 (UTC) 2215:22:14, 11 April 2014 (UTC) 2165:21:37, 27 April 2014 (UTC) 2140:04:57, 24 April 2014 (UTC) 2121:04:33, 24 April 2014 (UTC) 2100:22:23, 23 April 2014 (UTC) 2081:17:15, 20 April 2014 (UTC) 2029:21:56, 23 April 2014 (UTC) 1999:10:24, 20 April 2014 (UTC) 1984:21:46, 19 April 2014 (UTC) 1958:20:44, 19 April 2014 (UTC) 1929:13:56, 21 April 2014 (UTC) 1901:10:20, 11 April 2014 (UTC) 1802:17:12, 31 March 2014 (UTC) 1788:02:11, 30 March 2014 (UTC) 1773:20:40, 29 March 2014 (UTC) 1742:10:33, 20 April 2014 (UTC) 1727:21:48, 19 April 2014 (UTC) 1709:00:20, 16 April 2014 (UTC) 1699:talk as well. Cheers all. 1669:06:58, 11 April 2014 (UTC) 1542:08:56, 13 April 2014 (UTC) 1487:18:41, 31 March 2014 (UTC) 1466:14:09, 31 March 2014 (UTC) 1430:14:09, 31 March 2014 (UTC) 1390:16:22, 29 March 2014 (UTC) 1351:01:41, 29 March 2014 (UTC) 1334:04:40, 27 March 2014 (UTC) 1291:01:40, 27 March 2014 (UTC) 1268:22:15, 26 March 2014 (UTC) 1247:02:54, 26 March 2014 (UTC) 1224:01:58, 26 March 2014 (UTC) 1202:22:42, 25 March 2014 (UTC) 1183:20:52, 25 March 2014 (UTC) 1155:18:28, 25 March 2014 (UTC) 1137:16:17, 25 March 2014 (UTC) 1098:01:15, 26 March 2014 (UTC) 1058:03:10, 26 March 2014 (UTC) 1043:01:40, 26 March 2014 (UTC) 1024:01:12, 26 March 2014 (UTC) 1009:22:38, 25 March 2014 (UTC) 974:18:11, 25 March 2014 (UTC) 955:11:11, 25 March 2014 (UTC) 872:08:17, 28 March 2014 (UTC) 853:01:29, 25 March 2014 (UTC) 836:19:16, 24 March 2014 (UTC) 815:08:17, 28 March 2014 (UTC) 796:15:00, 24 March 2014 (UTC) 773:08:17, 28 March 2014 (UTC) 763:intervention in Ukraine". 758:23:07, 23 March 2014 (UTC) 739:20:04, 23 March 2014 (UTC) 685:18:23, 23 March 2014 (UTC) 668:15:55, 23 March 2014 (UTC) 650:05:21, 23 March 2014 (UTC) 633:02:16, 23 March 2014 (UTC) 612:08:17, 28 March 2014 (UTC) 589:23:10, 22 March 2014 (UTC) 564:05:30, 24 March 2014 (UTC) 534:23:07, 22 March 2014 (UTC) 515:22:51, 22 March 2014 (UTC) 497:21:13, 20 March 2014 (UTC) 476:11:22, 22 March 2014 (UTC) 461:16:23, 20 March 2014 (UTC) 440:16:23, 20 March 2014 (UTC) 410:08:17, 28 March 2014 (UTC) 396:02:32, 20 March 2014 (UTC) 374:02:28, 20 March 2014 (UTC) 357:02:19, 20 March 2014 (UTC) 305:02:14, 20 March 2014 (UTC) 283:- consensus can change. -- 271:23:09, 19 March 2014 (UTC) 252:04:44, 20 March 2014 (UTC) 235:21:22, 19 March 2014 (UTC) 213:18:29, 19 March 2014 (UTC) 195:18:23, 19 March 2014 (UTC) 3418:10:53, 27 July 2014 (UTC) 3403:10:09, 27 July 2014 (UTC) 3379:23:12, 26 July 2014 (UTC) 3349:14:58, 25 July 2014 (UTC) 3331:18:40, 16 July 2014 (UTC) 3288:01:59, 25 June 2014 (UTC) 3273:00:21, 17 June 2014 (UTC) 3129:16:14, 17 July 2014 (UTC) 1874:21:11, 9 April 2014 (UTC) 1845:15:42, 9 April 2014 (UTC) 1823:10:19, 2 April 2014 (UTC) 1697:2014 Ukrainian revolution 1646:15:33, 9 April 2014 (UTC) 1626:11:34, 6 April 2014 (UTC) 1592:19:41, 5 April 2014 (UTC) 1577:16:05, 5 April 2014 (UTC) 1527:07:00, 9 April 2014 (UTC) 1501:18:16, 1 April 2014 (UTC) 1446:19:31, 7 April 2014 (UTC) 1408:19:31, 7 April 2014 (UTC) 1369:19:31, 7 April 2014 (UTC) 1309:19:31, 7 April 2014 (UTC) 1127:determination. Cheers. 718:19:38, 7 April 2014 (UTC) 704:19:38, 7 April 2014 (UTC) 199:Alternatively merge with 3308:14:03, 3 July 2014 (UTC) 3093:13:53, 3 July 2014 (UTC) 3072:16:39, 6 July 2014 (UTC) 3043:13:23, 3 July 2014 (UTC) 3018:13:15, 3 July 2014 (UTC) 2991:20:54, 5 July 2014 (UTC) 2959:02:33, 4 July 2014 (UTC) 2944:05:45, 7 June 2014 (UTC) 2929:12:08, 2 June 2014 (UTC) 2910:18:03, 14 May 2014 (UTC) 2859:23:59, 3 June 2014 (UTC) 2845:22:09, 3 June 2014 (UTC) 2822:08:55, 3 June 2014 (UTC) 2799:06:09, 3 June 2014 (UTC) 2773:05:48, 3 June 2014 (UTC) 2753:05:32, 3 June 2014 (UTC) 2727:02:50, 3 June 2014 (UTC) 2712:01:56, 3 June 2014 (UTC) 2690:What part of the 'N' in 2686:00:04, 3 June 2014 (UTC) 2660:04:43, 1 June 2014 (UTC) 2629:02:39, 1 June 2014 (UTC) 2606:00:51, 1 June 2014 (UTC) 2567:07:19, 31 May 2014 (UTC) 2509:03:14, 31 May 2014 (UTC) 2494:02:13, 31 May 2014 (UTC) 2469:07:26, 31 May 2014 (UTC) 2448:05:51, 26 May 2014 (UTC) 2429:14:33, 21 May 2014 (UTC) 2419:? That's not in Crimea. 2409:09:25, 21 May 2014 (UTC) 1679:Please do not modify it. 172:Please do not modify it. 18:Talk:Russo-Ukrainian War 3358:Anti-war protests photo 2380:08:59, 7 May 2014 (UTC) 2237:00:34, 6 May 2014 (UTC) 920: 164: 2743:right back at 'ya. -- 1758:neutral point of view 1472:This discussion is a 893: 505:a single sub-section. 42:of past discussions. 3006:the military balance 2849:Yes, thank you. :) 2698:? Thought you'd be 2397:2014 Crimean Crisis 2390:2014 Crimean Crisis 1780:Rurik the Varangian 1322:2014 Crimean Crisis 1234:2014 Crimean Crisis 1113:2014 Crimean crisis 988:2014 Crimean crisis 581:My very best wishes 577:2014 Crimean crisis 223:2014 Crimean crisis 105:2014 Crimean crisis 3387:Russian opposition 3317:on the other hand 3109:Original article: 183:Invasion of Poland 3369:comment added by 3119:comment added by 3113:# ixzz37k7nX86y 3083:comment added by 3062:comment added by 2900:comment added by 2479:Secession crisis? 2457:conspiracy theory 2446: 2326: 2218: 2201:comment added by 2155:comment added by 1982: 1968:original research 1948:comment added by 1725: 1603:- Comments where 100: 99: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 3424: 3381: 3243: 3238: 3232: 3227: 3221: 3216: 3210: 3205: 3199: 3194: 3188: 3183: 3177: 3172: 3166: 3161: 3155: 3150: 3144: 3139: 3131: 3095: 3074: 2979:, 9780313386350 2912: 2889:Topic and Naming 2637:and contravenes 2581: 2544: 2519: 2440: 2320: 2217: 2195: 2167: 1976: 1960: 1918: 1914: 1913: 1719: 1681: 1515:TeleComNasSprVen 1480: 1220: 1217: 1214: 1179: 1173: 1172: 1119:in the title to 1031:TeleComNasSprVen 997:TeleComNasSprVen 943:TeleComNasSprVen 845:Nouvelle Planète 548: 423:political crises 369: 336: 330: 329: 289: 281:WP:TALKEDABOUTIT 174: 154: 81: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 3432: 3431: 3427: 3426: 3425: 3423: 3422: 3421: 3364: 3360: 3251: 3246: 3239: 3235: 3228: 3224: 3217: 3213: 3206: 3202: 3195: 3191: 3184: 3180: 3173: 3169: 3162: 3158: 3151: 3147: 3140: 3136: 3114: 3078: 3057: 3050: 2998: 2967: 2951:176.193.135.144 2895: 2891: 2648:pure propaganda 2571: 2534: 2513: 2481: 2417:Eastern Ukraine 2393: 2244: 2224: 2196: 2176: 2157:180.149.192.132 2150: 2108: 2047:discussion page 2043: 2021:Volunteer Marek 2019:, "soapboxing". 1943: 1939: 1911: 1909: 1889:Pan-nationalism 1754: 1691: 1686: 1677: 1478: 1382:Stephen C Wells 1218: 1215: 1212: 1181: 1177: 1170: 1169: 1090:Spirit of Eagle 1050:Spirit of Eagle 1016:Spirit of Eagle 966:Spirit of Eagle 788:Stephen C Wells 750:Spirit of Eagle 562: 544: 507:Spirit of Eagle 489:Anythingyouwant 367: 338: 334: 327: 326: 303: 285: 170: 165: 152: 108: 77: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 3430: 3428: 3410:89.105.158.243 3406: 3405: 3359: 3356: 3341:89.105.158.243 3339:hence you lie 3334: 3333: 3300:89.105.158.243 3291: 3290: 3250: 3247: 3245: 3244: 3233: 3222: 3211: 3200: 3189: 3178: 3167: 3156: 3145: 3133: 3121:89.105.158.243 3103: 3102: 3085:89.105.158.243 3064:89.105.158.243 3049: 3046: 3035:89.105.158.243 3010:89.105.158.243 2997: 2994: 2966: 2963: 2962: 2961: 2918: 2916: 2890: 2887: 2886: 2885: 2884: 2883: 2882: 2881: 2880: 2879: 2878: 2877: 2876: 2875: 2874: 2873: 2872: 2871: 2870: 2869: 2868: 2867: 2866: 2865: 2864: 2863: 2862: 2861: 2611: 2610: 2609: 2608: 2591: 2590: 2589: 2588: 2532: 2511: 2480: 2477: 2476: 2475: 2474: 2473: 2472: 2471: 2450: 2392: 2386: 2385: 2384: 2383: 2382: 2361: 2360: 2359: 2358: 2351: 2350: 2340:Knowledgekid87 2312: 2311: 2310: 2309: 2299:Knowledgekid87 2288: 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2030: 2026: 2022: 2018: 2017:WP:SOAPBOXING 2014: 2013: 2012: 2011: 2010: 2009: 2008: 2007: 2000: 1996: 1992: 1987: 1986: 1985: 1980: 1975: 1974: 1969: 1965: 1964: 1963: 1962: 1961: 1959: 1955: 1951: 1947: 1936: 1930: 1926: 1922: 1917: 1908: 1907: 1906: 1905: 1902: 1898: 1894: 1893:94.193.139.22 1890: 1886: 1882: 1878: 1877: 1876: 1875: 1871: 1867: 1861: 1859: 1858:94.193.139.22 1846: 1842: 1838: 1837:94.193.139.22 1834: 1830: 1827:I agree with 1826: 1825: 1824: 1820: 1816: 1811: 1808: 1805: 1804: 1803: 1799: 1795: 1791: 1790: 1789: 1785: 1781: 1777: 1776: 1775: 1774: 1770: 1766: 1761: 1759: 1751: 1743: 1739: 1735: 1730: 1729: 1728: 1723: 1718: 1717: 1712: 1711: 1710: 1706: 1702: 1698: 1693: 1692: 1688: 1683: 1680: 1674: 1673: 1671: 1670: 1666: 1662: 1654: 1651: 1650: 1647: 1643: 1639: 1638:94.193.139.22 1634: 1631: 1630: 1627: 1623: 1619: 1615: 1610: 1606: 1602: 1599: 1598: 1593: 1589: 1585: 1580: 1579: 1578: 1574: 1570: 1566: 1564: 1561: 1560: 1556: 1553: 1552: 1543: 1539: 1535: 1530: 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1855: 1762: 1755: 1714: 1678: 1675: 1658: 1652: 1632: 1618:Fitzcarmalan 1600: 1554: 1534:Martin Berka 1510: 1493:Martin Berka 1479:RGloucester 1452: 1416: 1377: 1338: 1317: 1272: 1251: 1228: 1211: 1206: 1189: 1142: 1124: 1120: 1117:intervention 1116: 1106: 983: 936: 935: 934: 930: 926: 916:media events 901:news service 894: 880: 840: 823: 783: 726: 672: 660:Martin Berka 654: 637: 625:Cmoibenlepro 620: 600:Kharkiv Pact 572: 545: 526:Lugnuthemvar 520: 519: 501: 484: 449: 426: 422: 418: 386:the crisis. 383: 361: 344: 321: 317: 313: 286: 263:Lugnuthemvar 258: 242:per Debi07. 239: 218: 198: 180: 171: 168: 150: 149: 144: 141: 132: 129: 125: 112: 78: 43: 37: 3371:78.56.179.0 3315:unification 2837:Iryna Harpy 2791:Iryna Harpy 2745:Iryna Harpy 2704:Iryna Harpy 2652:Iryna Harpy 2598:Iryna Harpy 2547:irredentism 2541:Iryna Harpy 2501:Iryna Harpy 2113:ToMesmerise 1885:Irredentism 1614:Suez Crisis 1569:Crossswords 912:news values 642:Ahnoneemoos 546:benlisquare 287:benlisquare 221:merge with 103:Merge with 36:This is an 2977:0313386358 2702:by now. -- 2555:end result 2062:russian ip 2058:77.51.99.2 1950:77.51.99.2 1881:Revanchism 1833:annexation 1474:not a vote 980:the treaty 365:article.-- 322:in Ukraine 244:Elk Salmon 136:WP:NOTNEWS 95:Archive 10 2762:WP:SOURCE 2437:Львівське 2317:Львівське 1991:B01010100 1973:Львівське 1734:B01010100 1716:Львівське 1532:weight.-- 908:recentism 828:Ericoides 731:werldwayd 318:political 205:House1630 187:House1630 139:subject. 90:Archive 9 85:Archive 8 79:Archive 7 73:Archive 6 68:Archive 5 60:Archive 1 3367:unsigned 3117:unsigned 3081:unsigned 3060:unsigned 2898:unsigned 2484:country. 2443:говорити 2401:Haberstr 2323:говорити 2211:contribs 2199:unsigned 2153:unsigned 1979:говорити 1946:unsigned 1722:говорити 1701:Irondome 1523:contribs 1458:GRUcrule 1422:GRUcrule 1326:Tyman222 1239:Floatsam 1121:invasion 1039:contribs 1005:contribs 951:contribs 748:article. 148:Cheers, 116:WP:ANRFC 3395:Tobby72 2851:USchick 2833:WP:ROLL 2828:WP:KISS 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573:Oppose 521:Oppose 502:Oppose 468:Debi07 419:Oppose 402:Debi07 388:LokiiT 362:Oppose 349:LokiiT 259:Oppose 227:Debi07 153:TLSuda 3393:. -- 3391:irony 3002:guide 2810:WP:OR 2779:WP:OR 2700:horse 2635:WP:OR 2526:these 2128:WP:OR 1219:Canoe 1178:見学/迷惑 1125:close 1109:close 992:UNDUE 899:or a 335:見学/迷惑 16:< 3414:talk 3399:talk 3375:talk 3345:talk 3327:talk 3304:talk 3284:talk 3269:talk 3125:talk 3089:talk 3068:talk 3048:July 3039:talk 3014:talk 2987:talk 2974:ISBN 2955:talk 2940:talk 2925:talk 2906:talk 2855:talk 2841:talk 2818:talk 2806:this 2795:talk 2769:talk 2760:and 2749:talk 2723:talk 2708:talk 2682:talk 2656:talk 2625:talk 2602:talk 2576:and 2563:talk 2539:and 2524:and 2505:talk 2490:talk 2465:talk 2425:talk 2405:talk 2376:talk 2368:that 2344:talk 2303:talk 2281:talk 2273:this 2261:talk 2253:WP:V 2233:talk 2207:talk 2161:talk 2136:talk 2117:talk 2096:talk 2090:. - 2077:talk 2051:very 2025:talk 1995:talk 1954:talk 1925:talk 1916:Done 1897:talk 1887:and 1870:talk 1841:talk 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