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1691:"Overdubbing a lead instrument was unprecedented in Indian music until this time" - do you mean traditional music did not have two lead instruments, or that overdubs had not been tried in an Indian recording studio? The former sounds significant, the latter less so, given overdubbing and "recording studio as instrument" techniques were only just coming into fashion.
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I know, but as I've witnessed in FACs, first names can be and are repeated when the reader's had a host of names appearing in a long article. Seems to me, Reception's an ideal place to repeat such information anyway, because we're now seeing them in the role of reviewers, not as commentators or music
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Well, it's a wah-wah pedal, heavily flanged, so the sound's resemblance to a human voice is hardly unusual. But yes, as with many details appearing in a
Knowledge (XXG) article, it's taken the observation/opinion of an author or other secondary source for the point to merit inclusion … I'm not really
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I'll check the 1992 CD booklet to be sure. I remember the quote's introduced with something pretty vague, along the lines of "after his return from India". I'm thinking it could well be around the time of the album's release, end of '68, at which point he'd just worked with Jackie Lomax, the
Wrecking
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I know what you mean. I think it's very important to deal with the
Harrison-as-performer issue at this point in the Lead so the jump can't be helped, to some extent. As soon as the 2014 reissue came out, a couple of weeks back, I found myself with loads to do, trying to rework this point … I've tried
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Don't agree with that at all, I'm afraid. The point is, the
Western music was "familiar" (typical trippy '67 rock and experimental doodlings) whereas the Indian portion was intended as an introduction/education for the average rock/pop listener – that's an important point about the soundtrack album.
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s contemporary review of the album, written by either Alan Smith or Allen Evans, but now I just can't find the piece at all. I'm thinking it has to have been at the
American Radio History site, yet I can't see it in any of the late 1968 issues when I look now. If anyone feels like trawling through
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goes (and it's something I always thought should go in that album article, along with viewpoint from a Beatle other than McCartney!), Harrison went to India straight after the 1966 US tour and couldn't get back into the Beatle thing. But you know, I don't really see that anything's needed here. We
1992:
Okay, that's all I can think of. If I had to give a main criticism, is that there is a bit too much reliance "according to 'x', Harrison did 'y'" or "'x' writes / opines / muses that 'y'..." The reader can examine the footnotes and sources to see who wrote what. Specific attribution is useful for
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Maybe, but the point being made relates to the actual session for each song. I can see it wouldn't hurt to find another source to support this statement (many do). I mean, even Martin has acknowledged he was pretty much a passenger and never really gave
Harrison's songs much attention until much
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review, could always reinstate Carr & Tyler's verdict: "... dismissed the soundtrack album as an 'undistinguished film muzak sampler' on which 'real music manages to surface' only on the Bombay-recorded pieces" – because that is their opinion as music critics, so it's valid. As in all album
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of the article, it states that
Bhaskar Menon brought a stereo (two tracks) machine to the studio for Harrison to use. This is an upgrade in equipment. The tape machine was not "converted" from mono; the studio itself was. To convert the machine would be impractical (not to mention expensive),
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contributors such as Barham and Manley. He also appears to have had access to plenty of Apple
Records archives through Allan Steckler, who headed Apple in the US (well, headed Apple full-stop from 1970 onwards) under Allen Klein. So I guess it's a combination of all those sources. Worth noting
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Tried to fix it, but couldn't go with your wording (per the source anyway). It was "his" theme tune in that Reilly was credited as the performer, but I can't be sure he composed it. (And I notice the
Knowledge (XXG) article states that a number of composers wrote pieces for him to record.)
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Yes, there were. But from what I can gather, it was later on – 1969 perhaps, when they moved to
California – that the fourth member, an American named Barry Finch, joined them. I've gone for the three names that Everett provides when he's discussing the Fool's involvement with the Beatles.
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1093:"According to a contemporary issue of Beatles Monthly magazine, further work continued at Abbey Road on 11, 20 and 31 December." - don't we have a more definitive source than that? I thought Abbey Road kept meticulous logs of absolutely anything any of the Beatles committed to tape.
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The whole idea of overdubbing was unprecedented in Indian music. Have just reworded the sentence. It's still significant, I think – partly explains Khan's enthusiasm, and adds to the earlier point about Indian musicians being intrigued by the project also.
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It might be worth explaining why Harrison wasn't interested in the Beatles at this point (iirc he hated touring the most out of all of them and almost left the band and needed a long break, and was more interest in playing with outside musicians, anything
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mostly because, writing in the mid 1970s, they appear to base their derision on an assumption that Harrison had little to no creative involvement. As the article indicates via more recent sources, that view has since been found to be completely wrong.
1118:"although he had directed the recording of ... "Within You, Without You" over 1966–67 with minimal input from Martin" - other Beatles, sure, but Martin did the string arrangement for "Within You, Without You" and hence made a crucial contribution to it
2012:
Okay, I've gone through everything. Some stuff I've briefly commented on, but the for the majority, I think we're okay to agree to disagree, and none of it is obviously seriously affecting the GA criteria, so we should be good for a pass fairly soon.
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Sorry, but again, I think that would be unnecessary. It's already been stated that John Barham was "Harrison's 'fellow traveler', due to the two musicians' shared appreciation of Indian classical music"; and we've definitely said
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Well, I've always understood this to be an alternative pic from the same session. Just pulled out the White Album booklet to check: they do look slightly different to me (same with very subtle difference between pic on original
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CD/DVD (with an acknowledgement). I'm sure there's a degree of guesswork involved, if that's what you mean, but no more so than in Ian MacDonald's (supposedly) authoritative musician credits for tracks by the Beatles, surely.
873:…", I guess you mean? I played around with a few possibilities, but the only thing I could see that works, without completely rearranging that sentence and the next one, is to insert the year following the film title. (Lame?)
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As far as the actual sessions go, he's only ever spoken about the experience of recording in India. Which is hardly a surprise: he was never exactly one for revisiting a project or discussing the particulars of a recording.
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Well I didn't, but I've seen enough articles to know that wherever there's possibility for confusion, it'll happen. I think "Tommy Reilly, an established BBC theme composer (including Dixon of Dock Green)" should sort it.
802:"the 2014 reissue of Wonderwall Music" ..."Before then, the album was remastered for CD release in 1992". While I see what the narrative is trying to do, it does feel a bit jarring to jump back from 2014 to 1992.
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exact quotations or information that may be considered controversial, but if we go overboard it becomes difficult to parse what's there. Anyway, I'll put the review on hold and have a look at all the replies.
1540:"Through the absence of mastering rills between some of those selections, however" - I think this needs to be reworded slightly, don't need the "however", and I'm not sure "rills" is the right word to use here
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comments I added ("Much of the music fails to have much point away from the pictures" etc). I'm thinking that adding these two reviews more than makes up for cutting Carr & Tyler's comments, which
828:"Harrison biographer Simon Leng writes of the film's appeal:" - may be easier to say "Simon Leng wrote", we can tell from the quotation that follows that he's explaining why the project was interesting
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That's all I was looking for, just "Apple executive" will be fine, but I'd rather we state it so there's no ambiguity, as inferring and assuming can be the mother of all arguments from my experience.
949:"In addition, he would provide selections in the more familiar, rock music genre" - since we've mentioned the traditional Indian instruments, we should follow suit and mention these instruments too
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1615:"Madinger and Easter suggest that the tambura might well have been played" - can probably substitute "might well have been" for "was" - it's stating their opinion, not necessarily the truth
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1144:"you get spoiled working on eight and sixteen tracks" - presumably Harrison is talking retrospectively about sessions, because I don't believe sixteen tracks were around in 1968?
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and related topics on Knowledge (XXG). Users who are willing to participate in the project should visit the project page, where they can join and see a list of open tasks.
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perhaps that Spizer's work as a Beatles archivist has been recognised by Apple – for instance, items from his collection have been included in reissues such as the 2005
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to lessen the jarring effect now (I think the main problem was the words "Before then"?) – changed to: "The album was first remastered for CD release in 1992, …"
1459:"Well known for his theme to the BBC television show Dixon of Dock Green" - who was? Tommy Reilly or George Martin? This might just benefit being reworded a bit.
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1565:"over which Harrison's chosen instrument features" - might be better to say "over which Harrison put a dominant instrument featuring the main theme / melody"
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cover and that used on colorised 2001 edition, for what it's worth). I don't know if it's just me, but I see a stern/intense look on Harrison's face in the
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I didn't put the word in originally, but then felt it was needed – because we've had the point about Harrison now wanting to "work with the best musicians
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Hmm – but why? The same subject (Leng) carries across the two phrases – "Leng describes Barham as … and writes that …" That's perfectly good English, no?
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I've had a go at rewording. "Rills" is a term I understand, Madinger and Easter use it throughout their book. I'll use an alternative if you've got one.
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Right, I think everything's now resolved or at least we've got consensus, so I'm happy to pass the review now. Another Harrison one in the bag! :-D
1665:"one of which resembles the sound of a human voice" - is this just the author's opinion or was this guitar specifically treated to sound like this?
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Aside from that author being problematic, I can't see anything there about Ocean Colour Scene (or Supergrass) relating to this article, can you?
777:"Harrison also provided selections in the rock music vein" - this sounds a bit pretentious, how about simply "Harrison also used rock musicians"?
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to the talk pages of all Beatles-related articles. Send a newsletter to members, canvas for new members and coordinate tasks. Enter articles
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1401:"Harrison was now keen to "go to the source", Leng writes" - might be easier to just put "According to Leng" at the start of the sentence
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Seriously? I can't see how anyone could possibly read it as referring to Martin. "Well known for his theme to the BBC television show
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The only thing that I'd think comes close is "Drilling a Home", but that's sort of honky tonk. (Just how "worse for wear" were you?!)
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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particularly when ready-to-go stereo recorders were available. Remember, EMI were notoriously "budget-conscious" (read "CHEAP").
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1590:"On "Ski-ing", Clapton plays "a bluesy fuzz-tone riff", Spizer writes" - similar to above, "Spizer writes" here is a bit jarring
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and comes across the review (it'll be a very short paragraph), please give me a shout. Or add the comments yourself, of course.
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the Beatles had got hold of, especially obscure stuff, was fair game to dig out and have a listen). Still, on with the review…
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1404:"Aashish Khan and Misra's contributions were recorded at Abbey Road Studios, however" - I don't think you need the "however"
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Ah, it's certainly an education. Enjoying something of a renaissance now, I think. Hey, thanks for taking this on, Ritchie.
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I do confess that my main knowledge of this album is hearing it while, umm, "worse for wear" at parties in the mid 1990s (
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Apart from citing books by Lewisohn, Madinger & Easter and others in his bibliography, Spizer includes quotes from
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This article does not yet have a related to do list. If you can think of any ways to improve the article, why not
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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Just to add: the piece by Smith/Evans is a pretty unfavourable assessment, more explicit than the contemporary
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Did Harrison himself ever actually confirm he was playing on it, or is our only evidence from third parties?
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Crew and others at Sound Recorders in LA. (I'm sure the Stones were working on 16-track at Sunset Sound for
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2093:. I skimmed through the article and couldn't find information on this and I wonder if anyone can clarify?--
858:"The soundtrack to director Joe Massot's 1968 film Wonderwall," ... could this go later on in the sentence.
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The lead is a bit long for a 33K article, but looking through it I can't see anything obvious I'd chop out
1792:"To Gill's chagrin," - is "chagrin" the right word? Maybe "disappointment" or "objection" would be better
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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JG66, I did not misunderstand. EMI Bombay had a mono (one track) machine, prior to "Wonderwall"; in the
1265:... okay, sorry about the intermezzo, I'll carry on with the review then deal with the comments so far.
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2147:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit
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Not really, at least not without diverging from their statement. I've just ditched the point entirely.
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interested in – "immersed in his discovery of Indian classical music" – wouldn't you say that's enough?
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was in the shops and it has exactly the same picture on the inner sleeve, as you're no doubt aware.
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Who knows. Madinger & Easter's book is noted for its super-thorough research, it must be said.
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1851:, we've been referred to "Madinger and Easter" earlier, and is "opine" the best word to use here?
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I think it's fine – the reader immediately gets an idea of who Taylor is: an executive at Apple.
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I'm really not sure. Availability maybe? I know the Beatles used De Lane Lea occasionally – eg, "
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articles, I'd just rather include as many dedicated, contemporary reviews as possible, instead.
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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Reworded to "Harrison also recorded Western rock music selections for the album" – how's that?
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Okay, I'll AGF they aren't the same - I've got to admit, I've never looked that closely!
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1064:"Harrison had finished the album before going back to India" - there could be a link to
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It's more a matter of consistency with the rest of the prose in this area, that's all.
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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https://web.archive.org/web/20120716185242/http://abbeyrd.best.vwh.net/wonderwall.htm
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1817:"Madinger and Easter write" - this jarrs and the sentence probably needs rewording
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1012:: "because Harrison needed a collaborator who 'empathized with his ideas'".
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onto this list, also list articles needing cleanup and other work here.
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Weren't there four people in the Fool, or am I just getting confused?
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of three people named in the sentence – after Reilly and Harrison.)
159:-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the
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1925:, but I seem to recall you thought this source was problematic?
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Sure. I've just added it on "Transcendental Meditation course".
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A list of articles needing cleanup associated with this project
1470:, Tommy Reilly came to the sessions …" (I mean, Martin is the
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ad, whereas in the White Album portrait he just looks calm(?)
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The Indian instruments merit some discussion for that reason.
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Well, it's not really any of those things, I'd say. As far as
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I'll try again when I've got a bit more patience ... Thanks,
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This has been driving me mad: I read, very recently, the
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have examples of this album influencing them, what about
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on this album, especially the piano and mellotron bits?
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Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Regional and national music
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Personal opinion this, but isn't there quite a bit of
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reworded this anyway, to allow for your next point.
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Mid-importance Regional and national music articles
2183:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
2063:Thanks for your time, Ritchie. That's great news …
1859:historians. That said, I've removed Chip and Mark.
835:Yep, thanks. I've removed the "film's appeal" bit.
2089:I've heard that the album actually starts in the
1415:", and the Bombay sessions have been discussed.
549:Template:WikiProject Regional and national music
45:. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
1962:Oh yes, I was thinking of Kula Shaker. D'uuuh.
1340:Where did the track-by-track credits come from?
1156:– and that was October 1969. Perhaps even with
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1190:. But, of course, by 14 December 1968, the
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1847:" Chip Madinger and Mark Easter opine" -
1572:I don't really agree, but I've reworded.
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244:-related article is within the scope of
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2136:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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1281:But who else could it be?
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1923:Thomson says something
1354:Concert for Bangladesh
1318:Blimey. Fixed it now.
1269:Contributing musicians
316:
82:This article is rated
377:The Lost Lennon Tapes
315:
86:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
57:: October 16, 2014. (
39:good article criteria
2181:regular verification
1206:All Things Must Pass
1066:The Beatles in India
534:article's assessment
414:Pics/Graphics wanted
324:the tool's wiki page
266:The Beatles articles
2321:Music good articles
2171:After February 2018
2095:TangoTizerWolfstone
1468:Dixon of Dock Green
33:Music good articles
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2176:InternetArchiveBot
2114:very next sentence
1895:Ocean Colour Scene
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1724:Derek Taylor
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1250:More later.
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1154:Let It Bleed
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865:To avoid "…
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693:Instructions
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432:Beatle wives
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162:project page
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144:India portal
94:WikiProjects
52:
43:please do so
31:
30:
26:
2254:the issues
1887:Kula Shaker
1849:WP:LASTNAME
1193:White Album
707:transcluded
538:push to 1.0
532:to see the
297:To-do list:
257:The Beatles
252:The Beatles
220:The Beatles
2310:Categories
2232:Report bug
2039:Ritchie333
2016:Ritchie333
1996:Ritchie333
1965:Ritchie333
1928:Ritchie333
1891:Supergrass
1842:Receiption
1824:Reworded.
1754:Ritchie333
1496:Ritchie333
1349:Wonderwall
1302:Ritchie333
1253:Ritchie333
1233:Ritchie333
922:music hall
867:Wonderwall
853:Background
722:Ritchie333
660:Authorship
646:GA toolbox
615:/Archive 1
469:create one
383:See also:
37:under the
2281:I removed
2215:this tool
2208:this tool
1210:Billboard
1030:Recording
743:Anthology
719:Reviewer:
683:Templates
674:Reviewing
639:GA Review
361:). See:
2221:Cheers.—
2119:Zephyrad
1413:in India
747:anything
732:contribs
688:Criteria
602:Archives
84:GA-class
47:reassess
2145:my edit
1987:Summary
1126:later.
570:on the
530:listing
443:Project
418:Kenwood
284:on the
195:on the
1178:Images
892:else?)
445:: Add
426:Verify
408:Update
371:Expand
90:scale.
54:Review
1883:Oasis
709:from
438:Other
399:See:
394:Stubs
240:This
168:India
157:India
113:India
2298:talk
2294:JG66
2267:talk
2263:JG66
2256:here
2123:talk
2099:talk
2069:talk
2065:JG66
1950:talk
1946:JG66
1910:talk
1906:JG66
1893:and
1885:and
1865:talk
1861:JG66
1830:talk
1826:JG66
1805:talk
1801:JG66
1776:talk
1772:JG66
1739:talk
1735:JG66
1705:talk
1701:JG66
1679:talk
1675:JG66
1653:talk
1649:JG66
1628:talk
1624:JG66
1603:talk
1599:JG66
1578:talk
1574:JG66
1553:talk
1549:JG66
1519:talk
1515:JG66
1480:talk
1476:JG66
1472:last
1447:talk
1443:JG66
1421:talk
1417:JG66
1389:talk
1385:JG66
1363:talk
1359:JG66
1324:talk
1320:JG66
1287:talk
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1218:talk
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1166:talk
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1132:talk
1128:JG66
1106:talk
1102:JG66
1081:talk
1077:JG66
1052:talk
1048:JG66
1018:talk
1014:JG66
988:talk
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963:talk
959:JG66
937:talk
933:JG66
879:talk
875:JG66
841:talk
837:JG66
816:talk
812:JG66
790:talk
786:JG66
769:Lead
759:talk
755:JG66
726:talk
326:and
304:For
2289:NME
2248:NME
2189:RfC
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