1178:. To me, the consensus to renumber is definitive. In the discussion, editors noted the usefulness for Knowledge (XXG) reflecting the new series' numbering used by the BBC and other sites. While the production company seems to have used 'Series 11', the public-facing promotion at this time is reasonably clear, and it seems reasonable, as one editor suggested, for public promotion to guide the series numbering. I count one objection against series renumbering. And, of course, we can always change back to 'Series 11' if 'Series 1' overcomes 'Series 11' in the future.
1988:, thanks for the notice; I didn't realise this, and I really appreciate it as it wasn't something I would have thought to check after a transclusion. It seems that the issue wasn't removing named references, but rather that the transcluded section I added (discussing the critical response to the revival series) used named refs that had been defined elsewhere on the transcluded article. The transcluded section has been expanded significantly, so I have removed the transclusion and simply added a 'Main article' link.
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Season 1 (1963) and Season 1 (2005), this would ideally work with
Waterloo Road where both aspects would be covered, highlighting the new season as Season 1 as the BBC have marketed it, whilst also maintaining the history of the show. Despite it being shown as a new show - likely to attract new audiences - there is a clear and direct continuation with Kim Campbell, Donte and Chlo Charles, Janice Bryant appearing, multiple references to the early series and likely future appearances by other previous cast members.
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significant positive impact, to avoid any confusion, but still has links to the previous series. Whilst the show has links to
Waterloo Road, it is now a totally different show, with totally different plotlines, all but two cast members returning. I would personally consider this a spin-off. Whilst former characters are returning, we've seen this in spin-offs of other tv shows, to keep it in the spin-off genre, whilst also tying links to the former program. I think this would be a really good idea.(
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1286:. While I suspect that the BBC's renumbering of the series is primarily to attract audiences unfamiliar with previous series, it would help make the article easier to navigate given its current length (especially if the series is renewed), and certainly doesn't feel too awkward given the largely new casting. Also a note to say that I've added the 'split' tag on the article page and will now notify some contributors (see
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1547:. I'm torn. Whilst I understand the points made above, a revival to me suggests that there is a lack of continuation except the name and basic concept. Characters and stories (Donte and Chloe, their baby, Kim's son etc.) from the previous series have continued into this series. I also wouldn't be surprised if we see some other characters from the first series in future series too... I'm open to hear more on this.
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1185:. This was more contentious, and while there was a majority to split (I count 9 supports to 3 objects, and one 'unsure'), several reasonable objections were raised. Firstly, it was worried that there wasn't altogether that much to say about the new series, such that any new article would resemble the current
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The BBC marketing it as Series 1 doesn't really matter, it's only because they are trying to diferentiate the show with the audience to the original. Wall to Wall who make it have slated it as Series 11 as have many of the actors in it (listen to the official podcast on BBC sounds) and also the media
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To me, I see it in the same vein as Doctor Who, the 2005 series which is clearly marked differently from the original 1963 series is still a continuation of the show, whilst also being a soft reboot akin to
Waterloo Road. Both parts of Doctor Who are listed under the one page but clearly marked as
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They have referenced the previous
Rochdale site, previous characters reappeared and mentions such as Budgen and Kim having baby Dexter. The BBC marketing it as a revival does not mean it is not a continuation, which it clearly is. I say keep it as Series 11, at least for now and see what happens
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Having considered these arguments, I think that there is no consensus for splitting the article at this time. If fewer future episodes will air than expected, or if plotlines continue to reference the original show, then the arguments for the status quo are stronger. If, however, many future
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I agree with all the support comments above, IMDB and BBC are treating the revival as an entirely new show and not a continuation of the original version etc. its got totally new branding, logo, location and cast (barr 2 and 2 guest). I think lumping it all together will cause congestion and
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The BBC have marked it as Series 1 because of the fact that it is a soft-reboot, none of the previous characters have been returned, and it looks like a completely different show within a completely different show within the franchise. Personally, I think differentiating the two would have a
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illustrates that there is no global consensus for whether revived television series should be given a page separate from their originals: in the past, some have and some haven't. (Additionally, these shows on the whole do not have separate articles for each series, unlike
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I'm changing my mind about splitting it, but it at least for now uses "series 11". How to avoid confusion if we move away from that? There are only five crossover characters (and only two with ongoing roles in both series) so it should be possible, but worth discussing.
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confusion especially for new viewers. the show has been set up in a way to be completely independent of the original that is why they separated the iplayer pages and marketed as series 1 (even if they may have filmed under the code name of season 11)
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Hopefully, some official announcement from the BBC about the future of the series once the seven released episodes run out should prove indicative and may be reason to revisit this discussion. There is a risk, too, that we may fall foul of
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per nom. Revivals, reboots, and 2nd runs are not the same show. Putting shows together in a single article with their extended or rebooted versions usually leads to confusion with infoboxes and various MOS sections. Better to split it.
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by splitting the article before any such announcement, to my mind confirming that we should be cautious against affirming a consensus to split at this time, but leave the door open for a different outcome in a future discussion.
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On the other hand, it was noted that keeping the same article may prove confusing, or become cluttered over time, and that the new series has made only some references to the original show, with largely new casting.
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for effecting it. A minor point: I'm not going to reintroduce the partition unless someone else agrees, but I thought the episodes table should still distinguish between original and revival series (see
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https://www.amazon.co.uk/Waterloo-Road-DVD-Angela-Griffin/dp/B0BN6KXRS4/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3SFWFM1OX2UL&keywords=waterloo+road&qid=1673089229&s=dvd&sprefix=waterloo+road%2Cdvd%2C74&sr=1-1
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when you removed content back in
January you caused numerous ref errors by removing named refs that are still used elsewhere in the article. Could you please go back and try to resolve these errors?
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awards and the winners from 2009 to the present day are listed on the wikipedia page. These record only a single win for
Waterloo Road cast, crew or the series itself. (Best family drama: 2009)
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again shows neither any wins nor nominations for
Waterloo Road cast, crew or the series itself in the years of broadcast. The North West Regional awards however yield a previously unrecorded
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episodes will air, and plotlines are original rather than referencing events in the original show, then it is more likely that today's consensus will be overturned in a future discussion.
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I hope it causes no controversy for me to close the discussion, having put up the split notice and pinged editors, even if the proposal had remained undiscussed for four days beforehand.
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per above - IMDB and BBC are treating the revival as an entirely new show and not a continuation of the original version (the 2006 version is now titled "Waterloo Road (2006-2015"
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This avoids confusion on the fact there are 2 series 1s and make us factually correct and not list "series 11" which has never been mentioned in any official BBC press release.
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page. Then, the revival show alludes to characters and events in the original show, may continue to do so as the series develops, and the shows share the same premise.
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The BBC is clearly marketing the series as a revival/A different show, starting from series 1 (And not 11 as our article has listed) wiith all new cast and branding
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awards are further discredited as according to the
Knowledge (XXG) page when the publication ceased in 2010 so did the awards under that name. They were renamed the
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as it currently is? Rochdale is not in
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I've had a look online and can also find nothing for the uncited awards. I've added tags to the IMDb sources as IMDb cannot be used as a reference per
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take a look, both waterloo road pages merged together now and the new series re-listed as series 11. iPlayer now showing new series as series 11 too
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1734:. Honestly though, I'm fairly indifferent but i'd day keep as is for now and see what happens as it progresses beyond the episodes release so far
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Again, although not definitive, there is no evidence of this via any internet search and nor is it mentioned on the actors
Knowledge (XXG) and
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Original entry added to wikipedia page by unregistered user 86.1.94.111 at 20:51, 6 April 2014 and incorrectly cited as TV Quick Awards 2007;
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681:. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see
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Although not definitive, there is no evidence of this via any internet search, nor is it mentioned on the actors Knowledge (XXG) and
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Original entry added by unregistered user 86.1.94.111 at 16:03, 21 August 2015 and incorrectly cited as TV Quick Awards 2007;
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1659:) for episode lists from the original and revived shows, even if the original and revived shows share the same main article (
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Pinging you as you have been involved in either this article or related ones that would also be split (episodes, characters)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Waterloo_Road_%28TV_series%29&type=revision&diff=677170088&oldid=675504940
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https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Waterloo_Road_%28TV_series%29&type=revision&diff=661717603&oldid=661713546
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https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Waterloo_Road_%28TV_series%29&type=revision&diff=650509625&oldid=650507482
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https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Waterloo_Road_%28TV_series%29&type=revision&diff=603056083&oldid=603000055
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and incorrectly cited as TV Quick Awards 2007; declared a winner by unregistered user 90.200.227.74 at 16:37, 10 May 2015.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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I think the answers all the question marks. Since the ones marked as dubious are not true, they should be removed now.
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Hey. I will look into this online. So far I have verified TV Quick & Choice awards for 2007-2011 that were marked.
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Three “wins” listed in the awards table for Best Actress (2014 and 2015) and Best Continuing Drama (2015) are dubious.
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I think the sources are reasonably clear. Not being paper, we can always change if the sources change long-term.
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wikipedia entry shows wins in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014 for Best Drama, and a nomination for the same in
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It would now appear that the BBC are now referencing the new series as series 11 now and not a new series 1:
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Do you think we should split this article into 2 seperate articles like IMBD and the BBC official website?
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for Scotland again show neither any wins nor nominations for Waterloo Road cast, crew or the series itself.
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https://i2-prod.dailystar.co.uk/incoming/article26368454.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/1_JSR_MEN_020322_Adam_02.jpg
1762:, so let's not do that. The question of what to rename that article to is... something to ponder, though.
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award ceremonies show neither any wins nor nominations for Waterloo Road cast, crew or the series itself.
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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as it is a user-generated site like Knowledge (XXG). I also ensured everything is linked only once per
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You only have to take a look at Wall to Wall's clapper boards and scripts to see this is Series 11:
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https://i2-prod.dailystar.co.uk/incoming/article26368486.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200c/2_adamthomas21-1.jpg
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I think your excellent contribution leads to the point that we can separate the question of
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looks to be the way forward. Currently, a split 'new series' article would be the same as
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1085:- Never even nominated - The show was nominated for the TV Choice Best Drama award though
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show neither any wins nor nominations for Waterloo Road cast, crew or the series itself.
1907:, as the basis for the move is now void. Feel free to discuss below if anyone objects.
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shows a nomination for Continuing Drama (2011) and one for Best Actress - Television (
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Again, although not definitive, there is no evidence of this via any internet search.
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The new series is a continuation of the old one and should maintain the same article
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Original entry added to wikipedia page by Wtarlooroadfan at 21:46, 8 March 2015
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465:. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page where you can
461:, a collaborative effort to develop and improve Knowledge (XXG) articles about
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as they may have some offline newspaper sources that mention the awards? –
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for Ann McManus (Waterloo Road): Best Script Writer in 2010. Search for
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Change numbering, keep single main article, split characters article
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The BBC refers to the revival as a separate show so we should too.
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Add free-use images to biographical articles where possible
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to Good Article status following previous reviews, create
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where you can join us as a member. You can also visit the
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The course of the discussion went to distinguish between
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I have changed this as the evidence is pretty clear that
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How interesting, and seemingly definitive. So I've been
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Top 20 start-class BBC articles with most importance:
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is ultimately decided against, but we think that the
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and the 2023 revival is titled either "Waterloo Road"
105:. If you would like to participate, please visit the
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
586:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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Category:Television shows set in Greater Manchester
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Category:Television shows set in Greater Manchester
1930:). An IP user removed the partition in the table
1921:Happy with the series renumbering, and thanks to @
841:(Lorna Hutchinson): Best Actress in 2015 - Winner.
499:This article has not yet received a rating on the
469:. To improve this article, please refer to the
2051:Unknown-importance British television articles
821:(Nikki Boston): Best Actress in 2014 - Winner.
600:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Greater Manchester
1142:A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
1014:TV Quick and TV Choice Awards 2007: Winners:
738:This page has archives. Sections older than
8:
1082:2014 Heather Peace ISA or TV Choice Win? -
767:Category:Television shows set in Manchester
2071:Low-importance Greater Manchester articles
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1093:2015 Laura Aikman ISA or TV Choice Win? -
1019:TV Quick and TV Choice Awards 2007: Noms:
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230:(in light of forthcoming 30th anniversary)
201:Here are some tasks awaiting attention:
152:
47:
1871:https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006t1p7
1254:https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0djrcrr
1249:https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0djrc1t
1077:- 2 Noms verified, 1 longlist nom missing
1071:- 1 win verified, 2 longlist noms missing
1027:TV Quick and TV Choice Awards 2009: Noms
947:) for the Scottish Branch awards (2014).
1150:to renumber Series 11 as Series 1, but
603:Template:WikiProject Greater Manchester
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2056:British television task force articles
2041:Unknown-importance television articles
1628:2A02:C7F:5116:8D00:D1FC:CEBD:1A5C:D423
748:when more than 5 sections are present.
479:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Television
862:Best Continuing Drama (2015). Winner.
761:Would it be better for this to be in
95:This article is within the scope of
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1133:The following discussion is closed.
580:This article is within the scope of
455:This article is within the scope of
2066:C-Class Greater Manchester articles
2046:C-Class British television articles
1268:it would also clean up the article
244:- references and general clean-up,
38:It is of interest to the following
1526:) so makes sense to follow suit. –
1471:for the same reasons given above.
1198:List of television series revivals
1171:. Let me deal with each in turn.
1146:The result of this discussion was
382:following improvements to article.
14:
1865:Series re-renumbering, March 2023
1262:- Waterloo Road (2023 TV Series)
1260:- Waterloo Road (2006 TV Series)
937:British Academy Television Awards
742:may be automatically archived by
520:the British television task force
1856:The discussion above is closed.
1783:List of Waterloo Road characters
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1679:would make more sense if the
1119:22:31, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
1060:- Nom is missing from article
1057:TV Choice Awards 2014: Noms:
1054:- Nom is missing from article
1051:TV Choice Awards 2013: Noms:
1001:20:30, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
875:The problematic citations of
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594:and see a list of open tasks.
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227:BBC Computer Literacy Project
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1831:19:12, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
1730:releasing the DVD in March.
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1236:19:36, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
1125:Split proposal, January 2023
1043:TV Choice Awards 2011 Noms:
1035:TV Choice Awards 2010 Noms:
814:Adressing each one in turn…
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252:- unreferenced and confusing
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2036:C-Class television articles
2026:Low-importance BBC articles
2006:21:18, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
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654:Waterloo Road Comprehensive
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892:National Television Awards
626:project's importance scale
501:project's importance scale
335:*Restructure the category
248:- over-detailed and long,
145:project's importance scale
1952:23:13, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
1917:19:29, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
1905:Waterloo Road (series 11)
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1760:Waterloo Road (series 11)
1187:Waterloo Road (series 11)
1074:NTAs 2012: Longlist noms
1065:NTAs 2011: Longlist noms
1046:- All the above verified.
802:21:20, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
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1136:Please do not modify it.
954:Royal Television Society
930:(now added to the table)
294:BBC Two Northern Ireland
122:Template:WikiProject BBC
1641:Comment on alternative:
1523:or "Waterloo Road 2023-
912:The British Soap Awards
357:Coat of arms of the BBC
325:Stub-Class BBC articles
1687:is still a good idea.
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1932:in this edit
1875:— Preceding
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1736:— Preceding
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373:See comments
369:Good article
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125:BBC articles
107:project page
96:
40:WikiProjects
1473:GrexHarmony
1340:GrexHarmony
987:JuneGloom07
977:WP:CITEIMDB
683:its history
2015:Categories
1843:Andrew1829
1661:Doctor Who
1607:86.3.48.11
1550:Soaper1234
1389:Butlerblog
1326:Soaper1234
1270:Andrew1829
1181:Secondly,
991:Raintheone
983:. Pinging
757:Categories
476:Television
416:Television
364:Dad's Army
353:assessment
111:BBC Portal
90:BBC portal
1971:-- Fyrael
1438:CobraWiki
1354:Tiffy0900
1319:Davey2010
1174:Firstly,
1148:consensus
1088:but lost
1068:Winners:
1038:Winners:
1030:Winners:
952:The main
881:TV Choice
378:Reassess
282:BBC Japan
1994:MB190417
1965:MB190417
1940:MB190417
1877:unsigned
1819:unsigned
1738:unsigned
1693:MB190417
1603:unsigned
1450:MB190417
1417:Pbassett
1410:AscotLEE
1396:Onel5969
1382:Lawsj123
1361:Wormwell
1296:MB190417
1288:WP:SPLIT
1224:MB190417
1022:Winners:
997:DarkGlow
941:database
939:(BAFTA)
915:database
877:TV Quick
849:pages.
706:Archives
659:deletion
264:BBC News
258:Copyedit
222:BBC News
212:Improve
1897:WP:BOLD
1838:Support
1712:Against
1623:Against
1597:Support
1581:Support
1567:Support
1513:Support
1488:Support
1469:Support
1431:Croxley
1284:Support
829:pages.
740:90 days
624:on the
421:British
361:Return
349:Goa Mix
236:Cleanup
173:history
143:on the
30:C-class
1986:Fyrael
1545:Unsure
1495:Butler
1424:Dl2000
981:MOS:OL
958:awards
956:(RTS)
808:Awards
794:Dunarc
775:Dunarc
675:merged
355:) and
275:Expand
36:scale.
1923:U-Mos
1909:U-Mos
1788:U-Mos
1768:U-Mos
1647:from
1530:Davey
1114:the 1
962:award
677:into
671:merge
367:to a
351:(see
331:Other
319:Stubs
183:purge
178:watch
157:Tasks
2002:talk
1984:Hi @
1975:talk
1948:talk
1928:here
1913:talk
1903:and
1885:talk
1847:talk
1827:talk
1792:talk
1772:talk
1746:talk
1720:talk
1701:talk
1675:and
1667:and
1655:and
1632:talk
1611:talk
1586:talk
1557:talk
1535:2010
1504:talk
1498:Blog
1477:talk
1458:talk
1304:talk
1274:talk
1232:talk
1167:and
1108:Rain
989:and
935:The
928:2015
922:The
904:20th
900:19th
896:18th
890:The
847:IMDB
827:IMDB
798:talk
779:talk
687:here
301:NPOV
220:and
168:edit
1572:DBD
1347:DBD
1290:).
661:.
616:Low
495:???
380:BBC
371:. (
214:BBC
135:Low
116:BBC
103:BBC
59:BBC
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309:(
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