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search for to get to this article. Someone from somewhere else is not likely to know "Toronto
Transit Commission" more than TTC, actually the opposite is more likely. And the full name would be on the first line of the article, per WP conventions, so it would be very clear. And I'm not looking to change everything about TTC, but I feel this name change would allow people to better find the article and be the correct WP policy. -
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The
Commission then directed staff to look into the cost of retrofitting the entire bus fleet with bike racks. The original bike rack model was not used on newer buses because it blocked the high beams on the Orion VII buses, and a different model of rack from the same manufacturer was used starting on 2007 deliveries. None of the additional costs for the retrofitting were included in the five-year capital budget.
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1299:== Too bus-fan oriented == This page is far too oriented towards a bus-fan who is heavily interested in garages, vehicles, loops, etc. It is not very well designed for a casual user who just wants to figure out how to get from point A to point B by bus in Toronto. Personally, I think that this kind of detail belongs on something like the
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better word. (The TTC website has transit planning resources that have bus allocations so duplicating this information in an un-sourced way seems irrelevant to me) Does anyone else share this opinion? should the article be nominated for deletion or does it just require a major cleanup? are there valid arguments to keeping it as it is?
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section title of "21st century" containing just major bus system events plus a separate "Electric buses" section for eBus details. I could leave a simple milestone entry for the introduction of eBuses on 35 Jane and 6 Bay in "21st century" but putting other details in "Electric buses". May I proceed with this suggestion?
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of information. This one is particularly bad since both sources are invalid. So unless you have a better, actually reliable source, I'll be removing the table again. As you attempt to address above, it's overly bulky in any case and does not add to the value of the article, which is meant to be for a
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in 2005 and 2006 by using the Orion V, VI, and later VII bus models. TTC staff concluded that the pilot project was not a success and that it should be discontinued, but the
Commission disagreed and voted to continue it and even to direct that bike racks would be installed on all new buses from 2007.
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states that "Knowledge prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in reliable
English-language sources) as such names will be the most recognizable and the most natural." Ask yourself which one is more commonly used, and what someone would be more likely to goggle or
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I probably removed the "Vehicles" table because, again, I question its relevance to a general purpose encyclopedia article. This is not a trainfan site. I may also have thought it was only "sourced" by CPTDB, which also again is 100% not a reliable source and cannot be used as a reference to include
1420:
I removed "Trolley and diesel buses" and "Hybrid and electric buses" from the two
History subsection titles as the former contains text on stagecoaches and CNG buses and the latter contains text on CNG and diesel buses. Both subsections had entries not related to propulsion. I moved non-history text
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had 3 sub-sections: 19th and 20th centuries (untitled), "21st century" and "Electric buses". Today, "21st century" and "Electric buses" have been merged and renamed as "21st century: Hybrid and electric buses" which contain entries not related to hybrid and electric propulsion. I prefer the original
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in order to keep all the entries on eBuses together rather than having the narrative interspersed with unrelated entries such as Presto readers and the pandemic, or conversely to avoid burying other events in eBus detail. I expect more eBus detail will be added later as the TTC wants all buses to be
501:
Have you finished twitching yet? Does the article you have retitled to "Toronto buses" now include School buses operated for the
Toronto School Boards, tour buses and private bus operators? That's what the title might lead you to believe - ALL buses in Toronto. If this is specifically about the TTC,
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Though I did not format this article it appears that the bold signifies the name of an actual named loop. As opposed to a description of the loops location. The loop located at
Lansdowne and St. Clair is NAMED "Earlscourt Loop" even though Earlscourt Ave. is 2 blocks East. Therefore it appears the
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I'm still kind of confused about why these sections exist. I think it falls under the "what
Knowledge is not" category in more ways than one. The article has one listed reference, and little value to anyone other than those who might want to know where the bus the rode today "lives" for lack of a
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Can someone confirm the numbering for them, as they are listed under buses under order? I know that they are currently listed as 1830-1949, which, from my knowledge, would be out of line with the TTC's vehicle numbering scheme (1xxx for hybrids, where as numbers for the accessible diesels are
124:
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on
1611:. Was there a reason for doing that, or was it an accident? It was later restored. The added columns for engine and transmission make the table bloated and difficult to update from the TTC service summary, which does not go into such detail. Why does
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Local people know what TTC stands for but it is meaningless to casual readers throughout the world and for clarity the full name should be used. What names are used in other varied situations is of no concern in this matter. Why do you need to change
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says the pilot bus has been received. I changed the quantity to 1 for this bus type pending the next TTC Service
Summary when it comes out. The table should only show buses in service and should agree with the latest TTC Service Summary.
1773:. But I agree that the answer here is not creating yet another article (personally I would prefer not including that information all together but I guess baby steps: let's at least get rid of the parts that are not properly sourced). —
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769:, which is a disambiguation page. This is not a prescriptive name, it is a descriptive name, so there is no "name" for these things, this is simply about buses for the TTC. Indeed, it could easily be called
1538:, not sure what policies and guidelines you've been reading but there's no "get out of jail free" card where consensus somehow overrides us having to use reliable sources, as your comments seem to indicate
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I noted that in the article's recent history, certain sections of this article had been blanked by IPs. The motive is unknown whether it is related to removing irrelevant facts, since the article is
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the boldfacing should be removed. Boldfacing shouldn't be used ofr emphasis or as some code to cover additional information or meaning, especially when that code is not revealed to the reader.
1057:. Thanks for widening the debate by notifying related projects. To widen the discussion, do you think that all similarly named articles should also be change to TTC rather than the full name?
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is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with
Knowledge policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
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saying that in February 2021 the TTC was seeking approval for one 7-metre pilot bus and later 90 additional 7-metre buses from Creative Carriage Ltd. (not ARBOC Speciality Vehicles).
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I have reverted the Vehicles table back to the 2021-02-14 TTC Service Summary and added a comment within the section's code to freeze the table as of a TTC Service Summary date.
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one and the same contributor? Please set up a user id so that others can better communicate with you, especially since you are making and enforcing controversial changes.
1706:. You cannot use wikis as sources for information included in Knowledge. There's apparently just one (or maybe two) IP users who refuse to stop violating policy. —
1477:. I am preserving the original text here in case someone can find REFs to support its details, which perhaps are probably not that important as to the result:
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instead. Surely the most common name for the bus is "bus". Or do Torontonians say "I'm waiting for the TTC bus" instead of "I'm waiting for the bus"Â ? --
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102:, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with
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editor bolded the name of the loop and then unbolded for the descriptions of the locations. No formal name ... no bold preempting the description ...
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However, the article should be Toronto Transit Commission buses, since it is neither an organization and is about the buses that the TTC operates.
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402:— Sorry about moving this page so much (as well as the streetcars page) but services should be capitalized on each first letter, such as Toronto
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Why are some of the loops bolded in the loops section? What is the purpose of the bolding? I am unable to find any explanation of the bolding.
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1090:) that we start using the acronym in article titles in this case where it is not unambiguous and it doesn't even redirect to the main title.
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member, there is no need for Knowledge to compete with that website when it comes to information pertaining to anything Toronto-related.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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1293:, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
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The above CPTDB-inspired mod was reverted but will be reinstalled if the next TTC Service Summary confirms the receipt.
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7xxx-8xxx). Under this scheme, the Orion VII NG Diesels should be numbered 8100-8219. Can anyone provide some insight?
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Even if we had reliable sources, these tables of overly detailed fleet information are non-encyclopedic. We are not an
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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1723:: Thus, after the next TTC service summary is published, I will force the Vehicles table to agree with that summary.
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Either there should be a clear rationale for the boldfacing on the loops stated or the boldfacing should be removed.
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table showing 91 "Spirit of Independence/Promaster" buses manufactured by "ARBOC Speciality Vehicles". I found a
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See above, so are other transportation authorities but their respective child articles are called the acronym. -
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The result of the move request was: the page currently seems to have the right title according to the arguments
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The TTC no longer rebuilds vehicles at 6 years of age. All vehicles are rebuild when they reach 9 years of age.
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tables that came from CPTDB pending a resolution in the dispute as to whether CPTDB is a permitted source.
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That is terrible idea. The main article and all related articles are name "Toronto Transit Commission".
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rather than here, and Knowledge articles should be structured more for general users (for example, see
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is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under
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Yes, it is "bus-fan" oriented. Arguably, that is the intent. For info on just using the TTC, see
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about electric buses to other sections, which was different from what I originally proposed.
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1542:. No one needs consensus to remove blatantly unsourced material, which sourcing to
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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If anyone has consensus, I propose to split parts of the vehicle section into
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
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1187:'s suggestion though to move it to "Toronto Transit Commission bus system" -
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want to split the Vehicles section into a separate article? Please explain.
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Right now, it's getting quite messy. There needs to be a major cleanup.
1473:, and replaced it with new text with different details sourced from a
1655:. Having an account also allows you to edit semi-protected articles.
1086:, but a DAB page, and as such I don't think it's appropriate (as per
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However, it has to be lowercase, since it is not an organization.
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TTC buses pulled off routes to pick up Rob Ford's football team
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presented, including in the media, as the TTC (and the current
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Metropolitan Transportation Authority Regional Bus Operations
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The article is condensed by the creation of forked articles.
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NO ONE ever speaks out "Toronto Transit Commission", it is
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Knowledge article constitutes fair use. In addition to the
1078:, this article should remain where it is. As noted above
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TTC buses to get Wi-Fi, but don’t fire up your tablets yet
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I too agree with "Toronto Transit Commission bus system"
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
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Last year, I added an "Electric buses" sub-section to
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Necessity of Fleet Roster/Divisional bus assignments ?
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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but keep the first line of the article the same. Per
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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I removed the following largely unsourced text from
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above, but support move to more precise title, like
1753:I think you need to be attempting to tag them with
1735:. Considering the difficulty in communicating with
1683:Using REFs, I marked the row(s) and columns in the
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Talk:Toronto Transit Commission bus system/Comments
680:. No further edits should be made to this section.
129:. If you have any questions please ask them at the
1272:. No further edits should be made to this section.
1603:At some point in the edit dispute, the original
1117:Bus operations of the Toronto Transit Commission
308:Made note of the bolding in the article itself.
1558:generalist audience, not transit enthusiasts. —
1289:, and are posted here for posterity. Following
1218:for "Toronto Transit Commission bus system"?!!
250:Thats just my guess on what is going on with it
1702:anything. There's no dispute over that point:
1512:. The vehicle section is get too complicated.
919:Video: Sneak peek of new articulated TTC buses
819:Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority Bus
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1333:List of Toronto Transit Commission bus routes
1283:The comment(s) below were originally left at
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828:List of Dallas Area Rapid Transit Bus Routes
180:Numbering for planned Orion VII NG Diesels
18:Talk:Toronto Transit Commission bus system
1323:Substituted at 22:02, 26 June 2016 (UTC)
70:Fair use rationale for Image:Refuel2.gif
1550:that isn't UGC is no longer available.
775:Buses of the Toronto Transit Commission
1138:Toronto Transit Commission bus network
1113:Toronto Transit Commission bus service
119:Knowledge:Fair use rationale guideline
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
1305:List of bus routes in Metro Vancouver
1142:Toronto Transit Commission bus system
876:, to answer you, yes they are called
691:Toronto Transit Commission bus system
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1510:Toronto Transit Commission bus fleet
685:The result of the move request was:
1733:addition of a {{Split section}} tag
1074:As long as the main article is at
410:treetcars. This can be similar to
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1291:several discussions in past years
805:name is long). And as an example:
718:– I propose to move this page to
644:and share your thoughts. Thanks!
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911:What TTC buses used to look like
771:Bus (Toronto Transit Commission)
710:Toronto Transit Commission buses
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394:Toronto Transit Commission buses
117:. Using one of the templates at
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1504:Partially split vehicle section
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1739:, should that tag be removed?
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131:Media copyright questions page
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838:Transport for London Buses
763:Toronto Transit Commission
640:Please see the discussion
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111:the image description page
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113:and edit it to include a
1607:table added in 2020 was
1331:. Knowledge does have a
1265:Please do not modify it.
1183:, and others. I do like
1136:but how about moving to
673:Please do not modify it.
556:Please do not modify it.
369:Please do not modify it.
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1220:Secondarywaltz
1185:User:Johnny Au
1167:
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1152:
1131:
1102:
1069:
1059:Secondarywaltz
1051:
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1008:Secondarywaltz
995:
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880:. For example:
866:
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831:
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744:per my nom. -
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668:requested move
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551:requested move
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504:Secondarywaltz
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392:
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375:
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364:requested move
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137:BetacommandBot
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1573:As a veteran
1572:
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1029:WP:Commonname
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399:Toronto Buses
395:
389:
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179:
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159:
149:
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138:
134:
133:. Thank you.
132:
128:
122:
120:
116:
112:
109:Please go to
107:
105:
101:
97:
93:
89:
85:
84:
76:
69:
62:
58:
57:
49:
45:
41:
40:
35:
28:
27:
19:
1832:TTC document
1814:
1575:UrbanToronto
1552:
1533:
1514:
1507:
1489:
1480:
1468:
1354:
1322:
1282:
1264:
1257:
1215:
1172:
1141:
1137:
1133:
1116:
1112:
1104:
1071:
1054:
1003:
998:
973:
953:Martin Morin
948:
917:
909:
898:
893:Toronto Star
887:
877:
869:
834:London Buses
802:
798:
758:
741:
707:
686:
684:
672:
665:
639:
569:
555:
548:
465:
412:London Buses
407:
403:
391:
376:
368:
361:
345:
341:
263:
216:
213:Bolded loops
194:Plrockerdude
183:
156:— Preceding
153:
135:
123:
108:
95:
81:
80:
60:
43:
37:
1775:Joeyconnick
1721:Joeyconnick
1708:Joeyconnick
1560:Joeyconnick
1548:this source
1530:Fleet table
1471:#Bike racks
1373:Joeyconnick
1270:move review
1203:Skeezix1000
1109:Skeezix1000
1092:Skeezix1000
913:from blogTO
902:, from the
891:, from the
803:descriptive
678:move review
646:EelamStyleZ
420:EelamStyleZ
270:Ground Zero
266:WP:BOLDFACE
188:—Preceding
36:This is an
1653:WP:ACCOUNT
1651:See here:
1475:TTC notice
1329:WikiVoyage
1309:Andrew_pmk
1301:CPTDB wiki
1179:, reading
1004:everything
1811:W700-W790
1731:with the
1659:Johnny Au
1581:Johnny Au
1439:Johnny Au
1400:Johnny Au
1369:Johnny Au
1216:Unanimous
1173:Withdrawn
1148:Johnny Au
878:TTC buses
720:TTC buses
715:TTC buses
610:Johnny Au
583:Johnny Au
576:vandalism
521:Johnny Au
474:Johnny Au
438:Johnny Au
313:Johnny Au
287:Johnny Au
222:Johnny Au
61:Archive 1
1605:Vehicles
1234:Epson291
1189:Epson291
1121:Ibadibam
1055:Commment
1034:Epson291
978:Epson291
974:Response
927:Epson291
870:Response
851:Epson291
815:MBTA Bus
746:Epson291
728:Epson291
572:too long
379:Kotniski
202:contribs
190:unsigned
170:contribs
158:unsigned
104:fair use
88:fair use
1818:(alias
1609:deleted
923:680News
921:, from
742:Support
695:Jenks24
39:archive
1761:, not
1704:WP:UGC
1544:WP:UGC
1134:Oppose
1105:Oppose
1072:Oppose
999:Oppose
949:Oppose
845:, not
836:, not
826:, not
817:, not
799:always
765:, not
759:Oppose
150:Roster
1836:CPTDB
1824:added
1765:. So
726:. -
687:moved
347:eja2k
256:eja2k
16:<
1860:talk
1845:talk
1822:?)
1793:talk
1779:talk
1769:and
1745:talk
1712:talk
1693:talk
1666:talk
1643:talk
1633:and
1629:Are
1621:talk
1588:talk
1564:talk
1540:here
1521:talk
1495:talk
1446:talk
1427:talk
1407:talk
1387:talk
1371:and
1362:then
1341:talk
1313:Talk
1238:talk
1224:talk
1207:talk
1193:talk
1155:talk
1125:talk
1096:talk
1063:talk
1038:talk
1012:talk
982:talk
957:talk
931:talk
855:talk
783:talk
750:talk
732:talk
699:talk
650:talk
642:here
618:talk
591:talk
529:talk
508:talk
482:talk
466:Done
446:talk
424:talk
414:and
383:talk
321:talk
295:talk
230:talk
198:talk
166:talk
141:talk
96:this
1534:Hi
1307:).
1262:.
1140:or
1115:or
1080:TTC
904:CBC
872:to
773:or
767:TTC
689:to
553:.
1862:)
1847:)
1795:)
1781:)
1759:}}
1755:{{
1747:)
1714:)
1695:)
1645:)
1623:)
1566:)
1523:)
1497:)
1429:)
1389:)
1381:.
1343:)
1335:.
1311:|
1240:)
1226:)
1209:)
1195:)
1144:?
1127:)
1119:.
1098:)
1065:)
1040:)
1014:)
984:)
959:)
933:)
925:-
857:)
849:-
785:)
752:)
734:)
712:→
701:)
693:.
670:.
652:)
510:)
426:)
418:.
396:→
385:)
366:.
272:|
204:)
200:•
172:)
168:•
143:)
106:.
1858:(
1843:(
1791:(
1777:(
1763:]
1757:u
1743:(
1710:(
1691:(
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1668:/
1664:(
1641:(
1619:(
1594:)
1590:/
1586:(
1562:(
1519:(
1515:-
1493:(
1452:)
1448:/
1444:(
1425:(
1413:)
1409:/
1405:(
1385:(
1375::
1367:@
1339:(
1236:(
1222:(
1205:(
1191:(
1161:)
1157:/
1153:(
1123:(
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1061:(
1036:(
1010:(
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955:(
929:(
853:(
830:.
781:(
748:(
730:(
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648:(
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616:(
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589:(
535:)
531:/
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480:(
452:)
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444:(
422:(
408:S
404:S
381:(
327:)
323:/
319:(
301:)
297:/
293:(
274:t
236:)
232:/
228:(
196:(
164:(
139:(
50:.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
