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erroneous as there is currently no recognized "nation" of the
Republic of Texas in the U.S. or internationally. I "do not" advocate deletion as that would not be per Knowledge (XXG) if the above mentioned links or references are accurate. The contents of this article along with Texas Secession Movement, and Legal status of Texas, all concern the same subject so are certainly related. I suggest merging (not deleting) all three under "Texas secession Movement" which, at this point, is certainly the correct name. There are factions or organizations that are seeking a secession from the U.S. or some other legal something but, regardless of how they feel, it is still at this point a "movement" or "movements".
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the "right." History is full of boundary changes, nationality redefinitions. It happens all the time (remember the Soviet Union???). It is only a matter of time (if history continues as it has been doing for the last 4000 years) before the USA will be redefined, become larger or smaller, or splits. There is nothing eternal or indivisible about any nation. Divide they do & divide they will. And what about "right to secede" under the US Constitution? Whenever 5 men on the SCOTUS decide that such a right exists, it will exist! (
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Texas independence before the voters of Texas. The TNM believes that the claims of the
Republic of Texas and other organization may have some of their facts correct, reality is that Texas has a shared history and culture with the U.S. that could not simply be legally dismissed based on something that happened more than a hundred years ago; TNM's reason for pursuit of Texas independence is the unconstitutional actions of the federal government.
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941:"Legal status of Hawaii"; "This article deals only with theoretical arguments regarding Hawaiʻi's de jure status under certain interpretations of international law. The debate is considered by some to resemble the same academic discourse being argued by several other activist groups in the United States,...". I would be willing to wager that the same editor contributed to both of these article.
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916:),, so really! Why can't the articles in question be merged into a central article like "Texas independence movements, "Texas Secession Movement" or even "Secession movements in the United States"? The first two would leave room for inclusion of the "Texas National Movement" (reportedly 250,000 members) and others in Texas, and the last would allow inclusion of the "Second Vermont Republic" (
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557:) that has the secession of Texas as its main theme. The story plays in the years 2015 and 2016. Texans are subjected to a campaign of psychological warfare to make them vote for a pro-secession candidate for governor. Not for the benefit of Texas, however, but to destroy the USA in order to clear the way for world government. The novel is written in German by a Swiss author.
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not looking askance at the time and effort that go into PHD dissertations, I don't think that student papers should be used as a predominant source, especially if they are being used as references for statements made in wiki's voice (as many are here). I would recommend removing these references/associated text and/or replacing with references from better sources.
938:"Legal status of Texas; "This article deals primarily with theoretical arguments regarding Texas' de jure status under certain interpretations of international law. The debate is considered by some to resemble the same academic discourse being argued by several other activist groups in the United States,...".
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article which recounts the arguments for the continued existence of the Texan state. The word
Secession is also controversial. If Texas was not legally annexed via a Joint Resolution of Congress, it is not legally a state and secession is not a correct term. Instead, Texas is only seeking restoration
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If Texas, or any other state does not have the legal free right to independence, the term 'United' is a lie, 'Captive' or any equivalent term would be correct. As a
British person I absolutely appreciate the fortunate right we had to independance from the EU, every so-called 'united' nation on earth
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I removed one piece of minor text whose reference was a phd dissertation that was not published, that I could find, anywhere of note. In looking through the references, I found a lot of similar citations. In general, we prefer to have published works/secondary sources, of more reliable nature. While
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The "right to secede" is a faulty concept. Any group has a right to secede once it attains the power & will to secede. The
Declaration of Independence has a rather broad right to secede concept argued. If "We the People" of Texas ever have the power & desire to secede, they will then have
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I deleted the statement about
Vermont & one other state not having been nations on the grounds that it has no citation, no support. Were not all the colonies independent states (nations) before they agreed to the Articles of Confederation? IMHO: Americans are so used to using "state" today for
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Added this, not havingt it is a major omission from the topic: In reaction to these secession petitions, a number of petitions were also circulated, calling for secession petitions to be ignored, petition signers to be deported or have their citizenship stripped, and for secession from Texas and to
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While it is mostly careful not to state anything in Wiki's voice, this overly-large section seems wholly given over to expressing the views (uncriticized or without due weight to other views of the organization as a fringe movement) of the organization. Not only is this a lot of real estate for the
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The "Legal status of Texas" is not actually a question of legality except to those involved in secession movements. The lead (no references) contains, "United States sovereignty over Texas has been disputed most recently by a movement launched by
Richard McLaren.". This is the same man mentioned in
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Strongly disagree. DO NOT MERGE THE ARTICLES. The groups in question have decidedly different agendas and histories. Merging the articles is unecessary and obscures the argument. Again, not everyone shares the agendas of either of these groups, yet having a stake in the extent of independence Texas
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Some people have argued that it should be a discussion board, not a wikipedia article. That's ridiculous. This movement is supported by some prominent politicians, such as the governor. Not to mention that it's legit. The fact that the article has a lot of substance alone is enough to say that the
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because #1 the legal status is only one of the reasons why people want to seceed from the union. #2 the article is about the movement and the debate, not the legal status. The purpose of the creation of the article to present the entire movement. It has currently become a news story, but it should
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This is not encyclopedic or even referenced content. Either work these issues into the general article, or rewrite this section as actual, referenced from credible sources, text. A random bulleted list is not something belonging in a proper wiki article. As only one or two have any citation, they
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Since 2006, in
Republican primaries, Larry SECEDE Kilgore has been a candidate for Governor. According to his website (secedekilgore.com) he received 50,000 votes in 2006 and 225,000 in 2008. He legally changed his middle name from Scott to SECEDE (yes, all caps) in 2012. Should that be mentioned
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I have no problem with there being a secession movement. I do have a problem with the infringement of the name of the article with The
Republic of Texas. The contents of this article reflect a "movement" and not a country in exile. The above unsigned statement, regardless of personal beliefs, is
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The Texas secession movement(s) is/are a legitimate subject worthy of standing on their own. The largest such group at the moment is the Texas
Nationalist Movement with some 250,000 members. It is an organization which is working through political channels to reach a goal of putting the issue of
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template, attached in July 2014, seems to have been resolved, in part pursuant to the discussions above. The article seems neutral, stating the opinions of various secessionists without adopting them, but also noting their unfashionability among Texas Republicans and the study of the groups as
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Since no one has weighed in on this for a year, I went ahead and made some edits. I trimmed down the TNM section to be a concise summation of the group, without being a mouthpiece of quotes. I also trimmed down the subsequent section, and added a reference clarifying that Perry walked back his
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I have come to the conclusion that this article should be merged into Texas Secession Movement. I base this on the fact that the name Republic of Texas was a recognized sovereign nation that accepted, by majority of vote, to become a state in the United States. The validity of this is thus far
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Merged articles will not lose anything by Knowledge (XXG) policy but two or three inadequate articles, that can be merged, may make a more worthy article. Danial Miller, the president of the "Republic of Texas", stated in 2005, "...thanks of all people of the Texas independence
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are not only more complete they both have a true and continuing basis for existence. The articles of "Hawaiian sovereignty movement" and "Legal status of Hawaii" may not be great examples, as both have multiple issue tags and need major work, but they are at least expanded
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one organization, it reads as a puff piece for their aims. I'd like to see this edited down to just an objective description of the group and their core aspects, or at the very least daughtered to a sub-article. Wiki's purpose is not to be a brochure for the organization.
846:: I agree on legal status vs. political players. I think Republic of Texas group should remain, since the great difference between the McLaren group that committed criminal acts and other groups (past and present) using the same name needs to be
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comment, claiming it to be tongue in cheek, and putting the TNM claims in context of the general disavowing of the idea of secession by the Texas Republican Party. The section(s) reads as more encyclopedic now. Please discuss if you disagree.
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remain part of the United States. Petitions included calls for Austin, El Paso, Houston, and South Texas to secede from Texas, saying Texas secessionist have virtually no support in major cities or the predominantly Mexican-American regions.
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This article is covering two different movements. There are likely enough references to sustain a second article about the secession of Texas and to move this article to one of the following titles, in order of preference:
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quite simply because having three different articles is ridiculous and unnecessary. A merge would definitely reduce confusion, as well as eliminate the possible notability issue that exists with the 'legal status' article.
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The last line of the first paragraph: "Texas Nationalist Movement headed by Dennis Miller." The first line under the heading "Texas Nationalist Movement": "The Texas Nationalist Movement (TNM), headed by Daniel Miller,"
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Here is the main reasons I support of merge: A very large portion of the "Republic of Texas (group)" article is copied (almost the entire article word for word) to the "Modern movement" section of this article, meaning
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Concur with both proposed changes (caps/plural); the subject of the article does not appear to be a formal or organized movement; it is just coverage of a collection of unrelated movements and/or one-off comments.
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is able to maintain from the drift of the national dialog and the strings that go with it should not be obscured by association, or any other means to challenge it's relevance that are without merit.
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The above opposes raise "fair enough" points regarding the "legal status" article, but fail to address the "Republic of Texas" article. Carol Moore's comments on it are completely incoherent to me.
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https://web.archive.org/20090419013203/http://www.rasmussenreports.com:80/public_content/politics/states_general/texas/in_texas_31_say_state_has_right_to_secede_from_u_s_but_75_opt_to_stay
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890:. If a group is militant or criminal should not be a factor. A factor would be if more reliable sources become available to expand an article and at this time a split can be performed.
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TNM is not a legit movement, unless you're counting terrorists as legit. The 250k figure is ludicrous and seems to be anyone who ever visited their website. Likely they have 1/10 that.
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to this article. Some editors commented on the talk pages of the other articles creating confusion. Editors please respond with "Support" or "Oppose" and any "Comment"(s).
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is interested and possibly in favor of it. As you said it is a very controversial issue. So it should be a seperate article. But thanks for merging the 3 articles anyway.--
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both of the other articles. The OR statement, "a key issue has been the tension between its de facto and de jure international standing", means what? Even with the
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I will say that the Republic for Texas article should be deleted and put into this article. As far as the legal status of Texas, I would only support a merger if
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I agree that this article should probably have not been created. It's more of a discussion board than an encyclopedic article. 15:47, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
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also border on original research. I don't want to unilaterally remove them, but will check back later to see if there is any discussion/opposition.
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The legal status of a political entity differs from the political players who may be attempting to bring it about. Perhaps we should merge
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
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1363:"terrorists." I have removed the template. Yesterday, I copy-edited a couple sections, not meaning to change the substance.
900:. If the examples of other articles used as reason not to merge are thus copied I would suggest merging them with good reason.
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As there has been no discussion or opposition, I am going to add a brief summary of issues, and delete the bullet list.
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In addition, the Legal status of Texas article follows the trend of other American independence articles such as the
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ETA: The governor has publicly riduculed secession calling it ridiculous. He did pander to secession in the past.
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still have a seperate article because it is a major political issue, considering the incumbent Governor of Texas
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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We should already have a article for the TNM because they have major influence in the rural and urban regions.
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This article should probably have not been created. The information here could easily be incorporated into the
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It seems that we have a problem with this article due to this article being suggested to be merged with
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Not arguing at all, just an opinion that 'united' would mean consent, no one has to agree with me.
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of the substance in this article is put into that article. Otherwise, I'm against it.--
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our non-state states, that we forget what the word state actually means, a nation. (
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ruling on secession there is really only US interests with secessionist groups.
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475:. The naming convention used in the Legal status of Texas should be retained.
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I suppose the talk pages are not linked but I weighed in on the matter at
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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other pages. Should we do anything about this to solve this problem? --
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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as an internatioanlly recognized state. This is an old issue.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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This article has been marked as needing immediate attention.
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This article has been marked as needing immediate attention.
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There is a political supense novel with the title EXCESS (
991:"? Notice the capitalization and the plural. Comments?
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I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
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I'm already making an article for the TNM itself soon
360:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
1267:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
1590:Knowledge (XXG) articles that use American English
1237:http://www.dailykos.com/statepoll/2009/4/22/TX/288
965:There should be mention of the petition mentioned
1605:C-Class United States articles of Mid-importance
1253:This message was posted before February 2018.
935:How about some edit copying between articles?
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1378:Thank you for this and your other clean-ups.
832:and do away with all legal status articles?
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1549:I support.
824:article or
663:—Preceding
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28:written in
1584:Categories
912:movement"(
641:Jerzeykydd
623:Jerzeykydd
501:Jerzeykydd
497:Rick Perry
1299:this tool
1292:this tool
932:articles.
820:into the
1565:RossoSPC
1535:RossoSPC
1521:RossoSPC
1511:(he/him)
1475:RossoSPC
1418:outlet,
1380:Jbower47
1305:Cheers.—
1209:cbignore
1176:Jbower47
1160:Jbower47
1140:Jbower47
1053:unsigned
751:Jbower47
734:Jbower47
665:unsigned
578:unsigned
519:unsigned
471:and the
371:Politics
362:politics
310:American
305:Politics
43:traveled
1551:Roasted
1429:Laundry
1315::Online
1244:checked
1203:my edit
882:Support
795:Support
398:on the
226:on the
77:C-class
39:defense
1473:Agree
1217:nobots
1026:Done.
1016:(talk)
943:Otr500
844:0ppose
834:LarryQ
814:Oppose
781:Otr500
709:Otr500
691:#merge
538:Balawd
477:LarryQ
192:Alerts
83:scale.
1504:Texit
1502:, or
1432:Pizza
1422:, or
869:Swarm
828:into
803:Swarm
111:Texas
35:color
1569:talk
1555:talk
1539:talk
1525:talk
1479:talk
1463:talk
1424:blog
1405:talk
1384:talk
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1352:The
1248:true
1180:talk
1164:talk
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1123:talk
1102:talk
1079:talk
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1041:Typo
1032:talk
1010:Kuru
997:talk
974:talk
970:Drlf
967:here
947:talk
927:and
918:here
914:here
856:talk
848:kept
838:talk
785:talk
775:and
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713:talk
673:talk
645:talk
627:talk
611:talk
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563:talk
542:talk
527:talk
505:talk
481:talk
455:Misc
1357:POV
1273:RfC
1229:to
637:all
603:two
390:Mid
218:Mid
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