Talk:Tesla Cybertruck/Archive 1

714: 3070:; whether particular aspects of a source can be used to establish notability of an article or technology; is a very different question than can a single particular media source article or video be used in an article to source particular technical statements; which is a very different question than whether a particular source might ever be used in this article. All three have been mentioned in the dialogue above in recent comments, conflating the issues. I think it important to clarify the question, and figure out editor consensus on the matter. 726: 688: 3798: 1516:

components.' Removing a high volume paint booth saves $ 500 million but requires rust proof materials, which led them to choose a specialized stainless steel. (Source: Sandy Munro for cost figures, both Musk and Holzhousen have discussed the steel...it's the same used in SpaceX Startship). Removing the stamping presses saves a ton of square feet and another $ 100 million+, but means you can't have rounded curves, so the design becomes angular.

31: 76: 1296: 2249:. The overall size/weight of Cybertruck is pretty much same as others of the large light-duty trucks like F-150, Silverado, Dodge Ram, etc. Cybertruck is just a bit shorter in the front. Vehicles striking pedestrians is always harder on the pedestrians. Still, lots of people/pressure groups trying to make Musk (& sometimes, Tesla) be seen in a bad light. 1740: 2834:

CAN's lack of bandwidth in such cases - a constant battle for me). So, even when we get lots of other independent references, I'd like for the Munro reference to still be somewhere in the article. It's fine to use it as a reference, as long as we also have a better quality, independent, reference - or perhaps do it as an external link.

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journalists. I'm not seeing any evidence that they are worse in any way than general motoring journalism and my impression is that they are generally respected for being blunt, honest and knowledgeable in their criticisms, when they have them. Note that the article currently cites lots of general news sources such as

3392:, but also describes the company) is a well-known automotive industry analysis firm that "specialises in deconstructing automobiles and has analysed the construction of hundreds of vehicles." (quoted from the Knowledge article, which I had not read before today). The information about the company, and Munro himself, is 2326:

right mix for an encyclopedia article on a groundbreaking truck with numerous groundbreaking changes (stainless steel/no paint body; 48 V electrical control; steer-by-wire, etc.) and many other interesting bits about what's up after the concept vehicle they made over a few months in a workshop four years ago?

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This sentence in the article "Compared to the 2019 unveiling of the concept Cybertruck, base prices were substantially more expensive by US$ 21,000–39,000, depending on the model, an increase of 52.9% to 82.1%." has an editor-added percentage calculation, not found in the source provided. Whether or

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on the truck body (since the front of the truck is not really being displaced), and so the crash energy must go somewhere else. I'm no physics expert either, so I may be wrong about this though. In any case, the section just describes concerns raised by experts; I'm not aware of any actual scientific

1775:

Like the topic above alluded to, the article features a ridiculous amount of Musk tweets as citations for thinly-veiled original research. At the very least, we should employ news sources that mention his tweets in context. I cleaned up a little bit of the History section, but any assistance would be

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the noise (the grainy specks that we don't want). So the best we can do is to slide the gain up until we see too much noise and then back it down a bit. I tried this myself and even played with some different gamma curves to concentrate mostly in the dark areas. My best effort was very close to image

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1. there is a typo, Tesla Network is singular. 2. Tesla Network is a component of the Elon Musk'Master Plan Part Deux, 2016, quoted in the rest of the sentence in the article 3. Tesla Network is the possibility of vehicles to be rented for money, which is used by Musk to justify that there will be no

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Teslarati is an often good source, with good secondary source reporting on a number of topics, EVs being one of them. In general, it should be an acceptable source for this article, although as always, what other sources say, and comparison to multiple sources in writing this article is always good

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Given it a year—we may have more CC-BY/CC-BY-SA photos to choose from: we have what we have thanks to the generosity of the kind photographers who have contributed their photos to the commons. (Those Franz before/after pictures are particularly unique, and even now, 20% of the news coverage to-date

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In any collision the energy has to go somewhere. With a crumple zone the energy is spent deforming the car and leaving less energy to hurt passengers and pedestrians. No crumple zone means the car survives very well (hurrah!) but the energy goes to the passengers (sudden deceleration turns organs to

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A unibody is where the skin takes the stress normally involved in bending twisting. A unibody has to provide for doors (which are not load bearing), so the A/B/C pillars take the stress in those areas with boxed pressed sheet metal. And around the front/rear windows there is more strengthening with

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there. One of the sources (Industry Week, 7 May 2019) says " and his band of engineers, lean experts, cost analysts, statisticians and more have analyzed hundreds of ... vehicles since the late 1980s." Further, the company identified (and published) many deficiencies in the Tesla Model 3 vehicle it

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We're mixing two things. Primary sources per se: of course, get secondary where possible. Interview with company execs by established expert (Munro) with a media output channel is not merely a primary source. So don't agree that the MunroLive sourced info should be wholesale removed as has begun

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I also agree that the Munro reference is likely to be biased in Tesla's favour. However, having spent a few years professionally designing ECU's, I was fascinated by the tech talk around the Etherloop bus that you rarely see anywhere else (I was nodding my head every time he mentioned debugging and

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While its lower quality, I think image 2 shows off the truck the best, which is the intended purpose. I would vote any of the edits though over the original because the original is very difficult to see on most monitors, and the #1 purpose of an image on Knowledge is to show off the subject matter,

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I suppose I better get a consensus before an edit war breaks out. The subsequent images are modifications of the first one. The original looks a lot nicer, but the modified versions are easier to see. The original author of the image prefers the first one, as he's said the edit "looks like absolute

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The article makes two conflicting claims: "The rear middle seat also folds down to allow loading long cargo extending into the cab from the vault" in section "interior" and "One article claims that there is a pass-through to the cabin for long cargo, but this is doubtful, as the displayed prototype

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Munro & Co are recognised experts in the field and their detailed coverage might well be helpful in documenting particular technical details. If they have some general opinions about the product then these might be attributed in the same way that we would report the opinions of other motoring

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Good articles are expected to be stable and this seems difficult for such a new product. As its production ramps up and there are increasing numbers on the street, we can expect a lot more coverage based on experience and incidents. As Tesla is likely to evolve the product design in the light of

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Business Insider has been frequently questioned, and is not considered a great source by many. However, I'm not saying BI should not be used as a source in this article. But I would say it is not a particularly better source than an interview published by Munro & Associates, a rather top-end

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Low fronts on cars tend to break your legs and toss you over the bonnet/hood/roof - not an enjoyable day but modest chance of survival. High fronts smash children in the head (bad chance of survival). For adults, it hits in the upper body, pushing them backwards so that the back of their head hits

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The so-called exo-skeleton seems to take a bit from each. The exo-skeleton seems to be be those door/window strengthening areas used in a unibody but applied to the entire vehicle. The patents say that the panels are not load bearing (thus, definitely not a unibody) but the diagrams in the patent

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is an Essay, and neither Policy nor Guideline for Knowledge. If you want to argue Munro isn't a good source, you ought to start a separate section on that topic, or start an RFC on Munro material or Munro Live as a source, not just add it on to this section on use of primary sources in general.

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The vehicle is in production, and being delivered now. If any editor is concerned about some particular aspect of the article being too much like an advert now, that particular bit ought to be highlighted & tagged for improvement. But the general issue identified by the OP in this Talk page

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In other discussions of the vehcile design, Holzhousen said that it makes no sense to put the most fragile part of a work vehicle one the most exposed parts, so the very idea of paint on a truck was self-defeating from the standpoint of durability. That reinforced the idea that getting rid of the

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be used as a source in this article. I also have seen the one editor above who said that the company CEO may own some Tesla stock; but haven't seen any support for that. However, if the owner does, it would clearly indicate we could not use anything from the owner to support topic notability or

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shows that this type of source is really murky waters with regards to primary vs. secondary, but the bigger question is that given there is so much unambiguously independent and reliable coverage available about this vehicle (so that we don't have to step into those murky waters), why are we not

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I agree with N2e that swapping primary sources with independent secondary ones is a large net positive for the article. As for the Munro video, it may have some educational and informational value, but it's also promotional and nowhere close to independent. For our purposes, it's essentially one

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Currently: 5 of 9 photos are about the 2019 concept vehicle, more than 50%. Heck, more than 20% of photos in the article are just about one faux pas at the concept unveiling: involving breaking window glass. I know that this is what regular media wants/needs to attract eyeballs; but is this the

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I'd concur that we should have statistically significant info, or violation of some regulatory standard which applies in Cybertruck's US market, before it really warrants being featured in the article. Any pressure group can throw out concerns, and come up with hypothetical cases where any tech

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This entry reads like it's not only an advertisement and puff piece for Tesla, but also seems like "original research" that lacks a neutral point of view and verifiability. Practically all the citations come from Tesla, Elon Musk, and Tesla blogs. These primary sources are just unreliable claims

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Elon himself said inspired by Blade Runner cars and his Lotus Esprit -- neither of which are trucks. So flat wedged cars would be stylisticaly similar, and ones which the press already compare the Cybertruck to (ie. DeLorean, Countach, Esprit; several 80s post-apocalyptic movie cars; several 70s

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The claim about the large flat front of the truck potentially causing more severe leg injuries smells kind of false to me. I don't know much about designing cars to crash safely, but my naive understanding of basic physics is that the large flat surface area should widely and evenly distribute

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Of course I understand that the medium is largely irrelevant and we shouldn't discriminate on that factor alone (although I appreciate you trying to help). I actually brought that BI piece here as part of a good-faith search to try to establish some due weight for aspects covered in the video,

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I just think we should be careful how we present these claims that the vehicle is inherently dangerous until there has been time for studies and/or a statistically significant number of real-world incidents to prove or disprove the claims. Before then claims will trend toward sensationalism or

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With no opinions from other editors on offer, I have gone through the text of the article and removed a bunch of 2019 citations that were supporting claims about the current 2023 production truck. If it is not obvious that the now-unsourced statements are supported by 2023/recent sources post

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it did. So it may certainly be relevant to some particular positive statement, and would be an invalid source for that particular claim; but it would not be relevant to the technical description of what is under the hood and inside a vehicle from an analysis company that is in the business of

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Image 1 is unusable. You can't see a thing. Image 2 is better, but there are distracting things in the background. The cropped and lightened version focuses in on the truck and makes it pop. Also 3 is the most accessible version, images 1 and 4 are gonna be real hard to see if you're visually

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cheap versions of the vehicles, since the lower-middle class wanting a Tesla would make money out of it and pay for the price differential from what else it would have been purchased. 5. This feature, which hinges on a bundle of hardware and software capabilities, will be available worldwide.

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English is not my primary language so I am wondering. Are sentences such as "Tesla is accepting pre-orders for the $ 7,000 'full self-driving' option" realy neutral? Wouldn't a simpler "Tesla's 'full self-driving' option pre-orders cost $ 7,000" or "... is offering 'full self-driving' option

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Why was 'the least expensive way to build a full service truck' the driving question? Because the endpoint of vehicle manufacturing competition will manifest as two or more robotaxi providers competing over market share in the same city. They will inevitably hold a price war, and the vehicle

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or irrelevant (and should perhaps be removed from the article) is an entirely separate consideration from whether the citation happens to be to a primary source, or to a Twitter announcement of the CEO who is a subject-matter expert on many topics re Tesla and the products it manufactures.

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According Tesla design chief Franz von Holzhousen, the design process behind the Cybertruck began with the question, "what is the least expensive way to build a full-function pickup truck?" The answer the engineers came up with was 'cut the cost of the factory by removing its most expensive

1589:, we must always supply kW - usually as the first unit. If the article has strong ties to a location that uses another unit then that unit may also be provided and may come first - eg, hp for US/UK, PS for Europe/Asia. In this case, I would say that PS is not needed and should be removed. 2483:

Honestly, those are probably fine since it's useful for technical information as you say. It's more of a concern when there are multiple consecutive sentences in the body of the article cited to only primary sources. In any case, I'll keep looking for more independent secondary sources.

2763:), there is nothing preventing the article from having a citation to something in Twitter, especially if that something was stated by the CEO of the company involved. So, sure, replace with better sources when possible; but whether a particular statement made in the article prose is 3016:

I disagree with using any content by Sandy Munro as a source for this article. Munro has openly talked about how much money he made investing in Tesla stock. His inherent bias should draw immediate skepticism to whatever he produces concerning Tesla products and the company itself.

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release of the production truck, I've added a tag. In some cases, I modified the prose to clarify time context, so that it was clear the prose is saying something about the concept vehicle in 2019, or other 2019-vintage opinions and facts. Do feel free to check my work. Cheers.

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research & analysis outfit that has a history of analyzing automotive builds and manufacturing. We don't discriminate on sources just cause some use a video medium and some use a print medium. A Munro-published interview with Tesla engineering heads is not primary source.

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The OR discussion was incidental to the sig figs discussion; all the AVRC essay says is that some editors think that the sort of OR that calculating percentages is probably acceptable OR in many cases. I did not argue the OR angle as a reason for fixing the sigfigs issue.

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Tesla's website is fine for basic specifications, although using it to choose what contents to cover or flaunt what the company wants to highlight makes it undue. I have mixed feelings about the extensive citation of that one YouTube channel mostly for due weight reasons.

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the ground (low chance of survival) and then hits them with the sump/diff/wheels (just in case the chest and head injuries failed to kill you) and truck nuts (I knew they had a purpose - cause of death = tea-bagging). This is a trait shared with large pickups and SUVs.

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That's the patent. While I'd call it an exoskeleton before I'd call it a space frame, it's close enough to be interchangeable. Its not a unibody anyway. Call it an exoskeleton in the description up top and point out the space frame/exoskeleton similarities in design?

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Listing torque from the crankshaft or the motor is the standard way to list torque, it's the standard on most Knowledge articles and the most motoring magazines and other journalists. It's listed that way under other Knowledge articles about EVs as well, such as the

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I agree with the external link idea; like I said, I do believe the video has some educational and informational value for readers, and that value can certainly be retained, with the caveat that a dozen-plus citations for it in the article prose seems unlikely to be

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It's not very helpful to have the information of torque listed the way it is, many times higher than how most trucks on the markets list their numbers. It's most likely 1/10th the number when measured equally, not after gearing and wheels making it look inflated.

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to start the process on consensus on one of those issues, re this article. If, however, some editor(s) want to make a case that Munro & Associates is an unreliable source and use should be deprecated across all of Knowledge, then the place to do that is the

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Like my reply to the topic above, there is nothing but Elon Musk's remarks until the Cybertruck is in public hands. (And yes, I'm aware that this is on purpose.) If these are deleted, so be it but you cannot replace those remarks with things that are not true.

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Impossible to know whether they actually used the patent or not in the production vehicle. Also it is unclear how different it is than a normal unibody. I say keep things like the current version until there is a comprehensive teardown done by a third-party.

2811:), and thus I generally agree with Graywalls that 16 citations to it is likely undue, and should be replaced with higher-quality citations as much as possible. The bigger systemic problem however, is that much of this article has been written and edited 1124:

images available through a Google image search. But there are probably good photos taken that have not yet been tagged as free - perhaps some of you with good online connections to Reddit, TMforum, Twitter etc. can request better photos to be made free?

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The rear seats fold down, but it still just a wall there: the rolling vault cover travels down the outside of the rear cabin wall. It may be possible to have a pass-through from the sail-pillar toolboxes (beyond the width of the sliding vault cover).

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I wasn't previously aware, that's even worse than I had originally thought; at this point, it seems best to simply purge the article of Munro-cited material, and talk consensus would need to be reached for adding back individual applications of it.

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Or ist that a normal phrasing in the US these days ... that companies are not selling products anymore but are graciously accepting pleas for taking the money (in this case for something to come in the future... hopefully) of the custo... err ...

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The cropping is good, but the lightening is slightly too much, and it also needs a contrast pass; presently it looks washed out, though it is much clearer on detail than the dark images (1, 4). On my monitor 4 and 1 are nearly indistinguishable.

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Would you say that about other specifications like those presented in the specifications table or the infobox? These are specifications that help benchmark the vehicle. I'd say they're entitled to as much due weight as other specifications. --

2819:(to make the claims look superficially stronger on the surface) without due regard for their quality and independence, rather than properly starting the research with independent reliable high-quality sources to build the core of the article. 2435:

Re: the "Range, battery, and charging" section: do we really need non-primary sources for specification information like charging speed? Even if this is published by a non-primary source, they're going to get the information from Tesla. --

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What in blazes are you talking about? Munro inferred something about the pilot production and the inference was notable enough for Auto Evolution to publish about it. The line in article makes the provenance of the remark crystal clear.

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It does highlight that ICE vehicles have almost always given power and torque figures at the flywheel rather than useful figures taken an the road wheels - therefore giving more impressive figures that do not include drivetrain losses.

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The Cory Steuben "unibody" remarks are a case in point. It's not true anymore than the hundreds of internet comments saying the same thing but because you're desperate for someone outside of Tesla to say something it's in the article.

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I'd call it a non-preferred source. They seem reliable for some information, especially positive news. But I question if they apply enough skepticism to Musk or Tesla, especially for topics that portray either in a negative light. --

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the Munro video into this section, that's just how this discussion naturally evolved, so that's neither here nor there. In any case, I agree that discussion of the video should transfer to a new section (which it already has below).

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lacks any corresponding opening in the front of the bed." in section "Vault (bed)". Either the seat folds down and creates the opening or it doesn't. If somebody knows which of these claims is true, the false one should be removed.--

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or 4. The other images look dirty. The caption said that this was the truck during the unveiling. There was no artifice in the original image. It was just how it looked with the contrived lighting on stage during the presentation.

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No automobile manufacturer of note uses imperial units anymore. Imperial units pretty much disappeared from the automotive industry by 1985, over 35 years ago. Trying to roll the calendar back in this respect is pointless and

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The Cybertruck is, was, and always will be an exoskeleton design. Period. It's even backed up by the US patent office. Most talking heads haven't even seen a Cybertruck yet. Anyone calling it an unibody at this point is simply

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other things proscribed by Knowledge policy. It would not follow that 100% of the analysis of the company could never be used as a source here in this article; as you began to assume when you deleted any mention of that source

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Lots of self-published and primary sources on this article; been working to supplant some of them with independent secondary sources. Anyone else who is willing to assist with this endeavor would be much appreciated, thanks.

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says: "The stainless steel exterior panels of the Cybertruck are not load-bearing" "The stainless steel panels are "hung" on this supporting chassis, just like body panels are hung on the unibody chassis of most consumer

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Reluctantly, I agree that Munro isn't an independent reference, being essentially 5 Tesla engineers doing most of the talking. But it's got too much useful information to discard. Shift it to a "Further reading" section.

966:- The purpose of the original image was to be artistic, and it achieves it well. However, the purpose of Knowledge is to actually show the truck, and this is best achieved by Image 3 (or 2, the difference is too small). 2981:

in this instance, whereas BI's coverage of the video doesn't appear to be, so that piece of BI coverage in particular is definitely more independent and secondary than the video. Just to be clear, I wasn't the one who

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Okay then. Propose removing the following as it exclusively uses Elon's tweets as sources. Furthermore, such promotional details contribute next to nothing to understanding the development history of the Cybertruck:

897:? It's an attempt to make image 1 a bit more palatable for people with monitors like mine. For me, the original image is too dark even as a full size image. And I'm probably not the only one. Tell me what you think. 1430:

https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/docs2/pct/WO2021102162/pdf/boJ4uEkkpZwwaqeagwi5_E9dpkhk_gmfAnhCEMOWuCZv6F_N_64oWuFfJ622puODrsWlHQ-2KFkRiTG8Yo92Woj88akgjGSEmnlIzs5Wb2dluxBY1CHBp5wO_H18DwLm?docId=id00000060115326

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providing the lowest cost per PVM (Passenger Vehicle Mile) will win the price war. The cost of manufacturing is the first number that goes into the calculation of average cost per PVM, and the smaller the better.

1097:: The original image is so dark that it is almost useless. It is so dark that the signal to noise ratio is very bad. Which means that any attempt to lighten it will magnify both the signal (what we want to see) 1381:

I have the Tesla patent that shows the difference between the exoskeleton construction and a unibody. Over the weekend I'll hopefully find the pdf and reference it directly. Topspeed et al are opinion pieces.

1029:. It's a decent compromise, as you can see the truck better without making the image look too ugly or washed out. Anyways, I think I'll try to get some more people to vote, this RfC has gone on long enough. 1658:

This is appropriate for prose that is stated explicitly to be about the 2019 plans, or the 2019 concept vehicle. This would mostly be in the History section now, and needs clear prose to contextualize it.

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Looking through their list of stories, I see stories both praising and criticising Tesla. To me, this makes them independent of Tesla. The writing seems to be professional and not just a group of fanboys.

2911:. If the coverage of such details is first well-established by strong sources, and the Munro video then comes in to provide some small clarifications or specifications, then that would be appropriate. 3353:

relevant to a technical description of what is under the hood, because if truly independent third-party sources haven't explored and discussed that aspect of the vehicle, then that material is simply

3266:. Limited exceptions can be made on a case-by-case basis for providing mundane clarifying details about topics and aspects buttressed with well-established coverage by clearly independent sources. 2174:

Maybe it's because the stainless steel is rigid enough that it will deflect the crash energy onto the pedestrian rather than deform from it? The rigid material might prevent the crash from doing

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However, for a screen sized image, the dark photo (original) is better; the aft is now sufficiently visible, and the light is grainy due to enhanced image noise. Is there a way to use the light

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is that it seems to present aspects and details of the vehicle not cohesively covered by truly independent secondary sources (the "Etherloop" concept for example) which makes it a violation of

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To my mind, the exo-skeleton is closest to a space frame but using boxed pressed sheet steel instead of welded steel tubing. Non-stress bearing steel panels then get attached to that frame.

3357:, since there is no independent mainstream perspective to contextualize it against. At a bare minimum, sections or paragraphs cited exclusively to this and other problematic sources like 3106:

Currently aiming to get this article up to GA status, still got lots of sourcing cleanup to do. Any further suggestions on improving this article towards GA status would be appreciated.

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to display metric units (+ imperial approximation). For example; 6.5ft bed is 2 metres (±<9 mm). Headline 250/300/500-mile range targets are 400/500/800 kilometres (±<8 km). —

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Can information sourced to the media releases of Munro & Associates (e.g., Munro Live) ever be used as a verifiable source in the Cybertruck article? 20:19, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

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Is there any strong reason to include 'Tesla Truck' and 'Tesla Pickup' in the 'Also called/Also Known As' section in the infobox? Both names are no way official, for comparison the

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be used. However, there are limitations to this consensus; it doesn't mean that any use is justified, and it doesn't speak on whether it should be used attributed or unattributed.

1559:, and I've never seen this used in other articles of the English Knowledge. If we want to cover the world, there are more than a dozen other units of Power we might convert to: 844:

as of now. It's the best image of the three. The other two have a cheap whitewashed feel about them. It's a good idea to lighten the first image, but not if it looks like those 2.

652:(although it probably will not be long before a wealth of additional alternatives becomes available). As that is the image currently in use in the article, there is no change. 2786:

Sandy Munro, Lars Moravy, Franz von Holzhausen, Drew Baglino, Pete Bannon, David Lau (December 11, 2023). Cybertruck DEEP DIVE with 5 Tesla Executives!. Austin, Texas: Munro

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a car that can go in the water basically? On, or under, or both, the water? It's funny you should mention that … if you make it a big bigger then you can actually have a

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PR information from Tesla. And the report is festooned in advertising. The idea that this is more reliable than an experienced industry consultant like Munro is absurd.

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for a van and a pickup truck. In late 2017, the size was estimated to be at least that of a Ford F-150, to be large enough to enable a "game-changing" feature. During the

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I am proposing that we use imperial units as the main UOM's for this article, as that is what is provided by Tesla. Metirc units should be included in (parenthesis). --

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unveiling in November 2017, a picture of a "pickup truck that can carry a pickup truck" was displayed. Background ideas had been in preparation for nearly five years.

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at time 31:20 talks a bit about crush zones built into the vehicle. This is for when it hits heavier objects rather than pedestrians but it's better than no info.

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car. It's like technically possible. I think the market for this will be small; small but enthusiastic. So… we do actually have a design for a submarine car.

3258:, mainly due to the serious COI issues raised above regarding Munro's financial relationship with Tesla; on its own, the usage of this source fails to satisfy 1560: 713: 2212:

But so far we only have a few dodgy videos commented on by armchair experts (you, me etc). We need to see the NCAP results to know what real experts say.

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impaired or have a bad monitor. Do note that I came here after Saucy mentioned this on Discord, though that hasn't affected my vote, merely my presence.

2042:. I suggest we change the Cybertruck torque from numbers measured at the wheel to measured at motor instead, as that way it conforms to other articles. 441:

for making those changes to the article prose. I think the concept of a Tesla Network is now adequately clear for the typical reader of this article.

725: 104: 1216: 301:, many of the units seem to be metric in original, so using the metric units leading the conversions in other unit systems seems most appropriate. 1236:

Depends on whether you mean a curved wedge (eg Stratos) or a flat sided wedge (eg Lotus Esprit). And those examples are all cars, not pickups. The

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tore down for analysis at the time. So of course, Munro-produced media can be a valid source for Knowledge in some cases, and for this article on

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says hp to kW is sufficient. That’s also the default output of the template. If you disagree with that, this isn’t the forum for that discussion.

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Not really. You would need a reliable reference that says the designers had that in mind when they designed it. Otherwise it's just coincidence.

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Which size do you mean - a thumbnail for the infobox, or as a full-screen image? Does anyone see a sharpness difference between the thumbnails?

2110:

Unfortunately, when it comes to Tesla in general and the Cybertruck in particular secondary sources are even more unreliable than primary ones.

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Should we just remove the prose that seems to talk about the Cybertruck today, in 2023, but is sourced with old 2019 or so speculative sources?

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says "So Tesla designed an exoskeleton, a fancier word for unibody layout, to move the stress from the frame to the outer skin of the vehicle."

2934:(from Business Insider) would be a much better way to present the video's information in this article rather than citing the video directly. 265: 2159:

the severity of injuries. Unless the vehicle is moving so outrageously fast that the impact just turns all the bones in your leg to powder.

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An image has not to be pretty but to bring some information, what lightened and cropped #3 does. #1 ist just inept and not suitable for WP.

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attention seeking, and I think we should take care not to excessively amplify claims that may not be motivated by data or good intentions.

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about something that doesn't even exist. There are very little reliable secondary sources that can help verify claims made in this entry.

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Now that Cybertruck is in production and being delivered, how much of article emphasis should be on the concept vehicle? What amount is

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Can you provide something that could debunk this claim? The patent, as I said, provides absolutely no indication that it is being used.

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Most brochures in my country uses PS and only Toyota uses kW, so I'm very confused when anyone say PS is rarely used and not needed.

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But for the many other places in the article, where in late 2023 a 2019 source is used to claim that x or y is verifiable about the

1338:, why do you think that a stainless steel exoskeleton is not a unibody? We already have multiple references that say an exoskeleton 1173: 687: 548:

has been removed from the infobox by someone, so a bot has picked it up as an unused NFUR image, and it is now up for deletion. --

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Older vehicles (and heavy duty or 4WD) used a ladder frame - handles front/rear bending forces well but sucks for twisting forces.

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Because I believe it is obvious that the body panels aren't structural like an exoskeleton would, but that's my personal opinion.

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My personal opinion is that PS should be kept because people mix up hp and PS, and as the result the conversion became inaccurate.

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for self-fixing your revert forcing that editor-made calculation to 3 sig figs. It is now back to 2 sig figs, which is enough.

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I've possibly missed something, but wasn't there another logo floating round before the event? I think it was registered, too.

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The dimensions/engineering units appear to be metric originals; approximated for the US-market, to imperial hence the use of

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Or would it be better to leave the prose in the article wikitext, but comment it out until an up-to-date source is provided?

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which are literally comedians, and it even cites Tesla itself. Munro is better than any other source I've noticed so far.

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Questionable sources are those that have a poor reputation for checking the facts, lack meaningful editorial oversight, or

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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The recent cleanup of a lot of sources that were primary sources has been a good thing. Replacing primary sources with

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appear to be from a company that manufactures and sells aftermarket parts for the truck, so it would be ideal to find

2232: 2160: 699: 567:. Prototypes of the truck exist and have been shown publicly, so free equivalents could exist or be created. Regards, 1074: 3720: 545: 3127:

A good approach may be to compare the article with the equivalent articles about other Tesla models. For example,

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There is way too much info stated/claimed in the article that is sourced from 2019 information that was about the

3589:- But it is to be used with care, and if a more independent source is available then that ought to replace them. 3546: 3463: 3138: 2804: 1798: 1352: 516: 269: 3204:

Request for comment on whether Munro & Associates media content can ever be used as a source in this article

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of the truck. Image 1 hardly shows anything! . By the way, image 3 also looks great full screen on my monitor.

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Is it fair to put somewhere in the article that this thing strongly resembles the armored vehicle in the movie

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The timeline section needs updating to include the November 2019 launch event, 100$ deposit waiting list and

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information in accordance with another source I found. Please review, revise, and discuss as needed, thanks.

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says "Here’s why the Tesla Cybertruck has its crazy look - Saved-You-A-Click: Because it's a unibody truck".

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has been ruled by broad community consensus as generally reliable. So if you believe you have evidence that

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considered an independent and reliable source for this article in accordance with the criteria set forth at

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In mid-2016, Musk outlined the intent for a new kind of consumer pickup truck, and suggested using the same

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had been called the 'Toyota pickup' in the 80s to 90s, and it is not included in the 'Also called' section.

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such experience, feedback and innovation, the product itself may well not be stable for some time, if ever.

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We are going to have to wait until after the Cybertruck launches before any real secondary sources happen.

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handles bending/twisting forces well but intrudes into places for passengers/engines/etc and is expensive.

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and attribution. I do think that the expertise of Munro warrants at the very least attributed inclusion.

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If a general case is to be argued against Teslarati being a reliable source, then the place to do that is

1264: 1226: 1144:(and then 2). The dark images are just too dark to see. The closeup in 3 is better than 2 in my opinion.-- 553: 497: 478: 369: 325: 2752:

But there is nothing in Knowledge policy that forbids the use of primary sources in all instances. (see

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Yep. That's the patent. Until someone tears down the production CT that's the only real source we have.

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Well I think the bigger issue is that if secondary sources aren't talking about it, then it is probably

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says "All modern cars except most pickup trucks have a frameless exoskeleton, AKA monocoque or unibody."

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be better for a quick-glance thumbnail, but ends up being silver-grey car against silvery-grey backdrop.

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The issue is Cory Steuben's remarks on the unibody/exoskeleton saga. Also, he isn't at Munro anymore.

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It is clearly incorrect to represent the delivered vehicle with sources about speculative plans and a

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https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/tesla-cybertruck-exoskeleton-and-design-explained-ar187129.html

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Either call it an exoskeleton or remove all mention of the chassis if reality bothers you that much.

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because I'd like to keep what's preserve-able (but unfortunately I can't keep material that violates

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establishing sections and concepts described in the article around such sources in the first place?

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Still the case eight months later. The 'specifications' table in particular is laughably optimistic.

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that we're using here was written by Bailey Schulz who is a "general assignment money reporter" for

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A link has been provided now to this car racing esoteric term. See if that answers your question.

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The broad front spreads the impact over a wider area than vehicles with pointy noses - this is good.

2114: 1889: 1860: 1845: 1497: 1475: 1461: 1383: 1333: 3903: 3854: 3704: 3397: 3358: 3187: 2978: 2950: 2912: 2808: 2793: 2756:). Sometimes, a primary source might be all that is available to cite a particular relevant item. 2746: 2616:

For those interested or concerned, there's actually an archived RSN discussion about the source at

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over the presence of chassis info at the beginning of the exterior section, what do others think,

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Since someone suggested lightening image 1 but without making it look like 2 and 3, may I suggest

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between

2380: 1980:? If so, we should just delete all material sourced by such non-reliable sources right away. 1655:

unveiled in late 2019, or about speculative "plans" Tesla had for the future of this vehicle.

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in the mean-time? At least readers then have a quick way to get to the full-size photograph. —

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with hanging panels attached. Which is not a unibody but not something completely new either.

1149: 884: 393: 336:"the automobile industry changed long ago to reap the benefits of a single measurement system" 3612:- Munro is known for its extertise in comprehensive analysis and is worth mentioning, absent 1747:

with the above edits, and the addition of newer sources for some of the legacy statements by

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paint and paint booth would result in a more durable vehicle, while costing less to produce.

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to be useful, but at the moment is so tightly cropped that there is no context about what is

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It seems that Image 2 or 3 has a small majority, but no clear consensus. There are no other

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to a "sources vary" situation to reflect this discrepancy. Also, if the second sentence of

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has no expertise; it's just a general newspaper written by journalists, not experts. The

3501: 3425: 3362: 3354: 3318:: This RfC is narrowly about Munro & Associates published analysis and whether it can 3302: 3267: 3107: 3067: 3050: 3034: 2991: 2974: 2935: 2917: 2908: 2866: 2836: 2820: 2764: 2621: 2568: 2527: 2485: 2455: 2451: 2420: 2398: 2364: 2319: 2288: 2246: 2214: 2021: 1924: 1591: 1586: 1440: 1406: 1363: 1282: 1242: 1104: 1043: 1012: 954: 361: 1555: 1240:

can give it a run for its money for flat sidedness but I wouldn't necessarily link them.

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improvement/benefit with the modified versions, tempted to suggest that we might as well

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

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Between the years 2012 and 2013, Elon Musk discussed the desire to build a truck with

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I’m also bothered by how many citations appear to be “stuff people said on a forum.”

1904: 1875: 1830: 1777: 1756: 1720: 1701: 1671: 1571: 1489: 1401: 1237: 949:- Looks the best; the brightened ones seem to have a cheap, washed-out feel to them. 933: 623: 446: 306: 108: 1359:

https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/22/heres-why-the-tesla-cybertruck-has-its-crazy-look/

232: 220: 3827:(which is widely cited elsewhere in this article) calls it an exoskeleton, so I've 3668: 3664: 3393: 2648: 2519: 2515: 2081: 1969: 1543:

Why is the article showing conversions of power, not merely in the traditional hp (

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as it is the best representation of the truck and it is an official photo taken.

3763: 3537:. They don't seem to have any technical expertise and all their report does is 3389: 3285: 2716: 2698: 2690: 2660: 2343: 1973: 1805:. In early 2014 Musk predicted 4–5 years before work could start on the product. 1693: 1652: 1645: 1493: 1435: 1082: 967: 916: 845: 826: 653: 605: 298: 284: 245: 195: 151: 75: 46:

If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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that a patent is being used to support a conflicting claim, which I believe is

3835:

has now become redundant or confusing, it can be removed or revised as needed.

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look just like a typical door area from almost any unibody car since the 1960s.

2670:, let some other editor(s) weigh in on what is best in the article. Cheers. 3538: 3388:(which as of 6 January, links to an article about the founder of the company, 2283: 2180: 1813: 1802: 1663: 1544: 1353:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/what-is-cybertruck-exoskeleton.174936/

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Saw this today. Not much firm, but its in the area you are wondering about.

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Note that the article currently cites lots of general news sources such as

2977:). The more important matter is that the Munro video itself is certainly a 2132:

section is over now: an old concern, the article is vastly different now.

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Until then, we will restore the article back to its previous state, as per

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https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-cybertruck-folding-rear-seats-more-storage/

407:

In response to the request to clarify the following point: Tesla Networks

3853:. The exoskeleton design has been discussed in multiple reliable sources. 3406: 3329: 3173: 3083: 2955: 2888: 2769: 2724: 2671: 2603: 2327: 2254: 2133: 1981: 1752: 1716: 1697: 1667: 1567: 619: 442: 335: 302: 3131:

seems more substantial but is also graded as C-class, like this article.

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jelly) and into the pedestrians (frog in a blender). Enjoy that picture.

1073:: on Commons, these should appropriately be linked to one another using 1823:

In late 2018, Musk anticipated a prototype to be ready to show in 2019.

1809: 221:"Tesla Cybertruck (pressurized edition) will be official truck of Mars" 3347:

I cannot begin to tell you how much money I have made from Tesla stock

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is almost invisible. So for the article, the light (edited) is better.

1061:(or 2). The others are too dark. Cropped looks better in my opinion. 2759:

Moreover, whereas Twitter etc. may often be self-published sources (

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in the infobox, but linking to the dark original for bigger images?

2815:, ideologically built around Musk's tweets and then decorated with 2807:

in a way that aligns with the company's viewpoint (so falls within

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I believe the percentage change is not original research. Cheers,

1751:& other editors today, this issue is pretty much in the past. 1294: 2803:

subject matter expert interviewing five Tesla executives who can

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offers guidance regarding the treatment of this type of source.

2857:-compliant. That said, if you or anyone else is interested, the 1644:

Large amount of the article is sourced from 2019 info about the

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

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is not a reliable source. In any case, its classification of

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to exist on Knowledge, and should be removed for that reason.

1666:, then this all needs fixed, in order to improve the article. 25: 3713:"Anyone calling it an unibody at this point is simply lying." 3405:, for information about the technical makeup of the vehicle. 2511: 1553:

is an abbreviation of the German term for metric horsepower,

233:"Cybertruck design influenced partly by The Spy Who Loved Me" 2618:

Knowledge:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 412#Teslarati

932:- Lightened and cropped shows the vehicle best, in my view. 2899:

The major problem with the usage of the Munro video across

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As the person who put up this question, I'm gonna vote for

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It would be good to have the punk Cybertruck logo here. --

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pre-orders at $ 7,000" or something along the line better?

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Tesla makes it clear as mud but here's my understanding.

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product is "unsafe" in some particular point of view.

2973:, as that is a policy, which includes its sub-section 1539:

Why the German "PS" unit of power in conversion units?

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Wedge shaped cars; Perhaps some of them as see alsos?

808:(in particular, too tightly cropped on the left/rear). 1998:

Torque listed under "Cybertruck model specifications"

70:

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

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is "low quality", you will have to litigate that at

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The following discussion is an archived record of a

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No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2817:

other sources that conveniently support those views

751:is better than the dark; the aft third of the dark 469:is an embedded CSS Base64 encoded SVG at http:// 3157:" mean? It isn't actually a legitimate 0-60 time? 1561:Module:Convert/documentation/conversion_data#Power 1474:Would you mind if I did an edit? See how it sits? 2314:How much article emphasis on the concept vehicle? 737:garbage"... anyone else have an opinion on this? 2788:Live is cited SIXTEEN times within the article. 2749:sources is always an improvement to an article. 3361:are clearly in violation of Knowledge policy. 2245:It's tricky to know where to draw the line on 1968:This sort of source would not be considered a 522:Participate in the deletion discussion at the 3224:A summary of the conclusions reached follows. 1976:for Knowledge. Do you still see any of this 8: 3523:Generally reliable in its areas of expertise 1434:To me that seems more like a variation on a 461:Can someone upload the Cybertruck logo? The 3288:core policy page under the section titled " 2655:for an encyclopedia article. I had made a 2284:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5zDNaY1fvI 648:Consensus in the discussion clearly favors 2932:this secondary coverage of the Munro video 2562: 1566:I propose just kW and hp are sufficient. 412: 127:Back from 2015, possible very early mule: 2526:, it's used in citations 25, 27, and 32. 698: 105:Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment 2865:) could benefit from improved sourcing. 3450:, which are low quality, shows such as 2322:in an automotive article on Knowledge? 1404:. I look forward to seeing the patent. 683: 103:Above undated message substituted from 3477: 3346: 3295: 1547:) and kW (kilowatts), but also in PS? 915:which the original doesn't really do. 280: 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 3568:sources can be used with the correct 3298:have an apparent conflict of interest 3291:Sources that are usually not reliable 2805:frame the presentation of information 2659:and changed it to just two sigfigs. 2044:2A01:799:1B9B:C300:C52:5FBF:AE1E:ECC2 2005:2A01:799:1B9B:C300:155:CB7A:A24A:97ED 1188:2003:F5:6F06:7900:D01E:38A0:6E5D:AB52 590:2003:F6:FF35:4F00:30E3:431F:E85D:35A0 7: 2663:changed it back to three sigfigs. 2342:probably mentions that incident!) — 731:(4) slightly lightened in dark areas 675:The following discussion is closed. 169:Just in case… it's needed later on: 3349:, then goes on to describe. And it 3294:" the very first sentence states: 3155:2.6 sec. (with rollout subtracted) 1303: 563:That's because it did not satisfy 84: 80: 24: 2411:Turns out those sources are also 2192:Also not an expert my 2c worth... 1771:Musk tweets and original research 1075:Commons:Template:Derivative works 178:Tesla Annual Shareholders Meeting 3849:Good, I would certainly vote to 3796: 3631:The discussion above is closed. 3344:this video starting around 58:30 1738: 1202:The discussion above is closed. 724: 712: 686: 471:https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck 87:. Further details are available 74: 29: 2060:Is this entry an advertisement? 2901:the article's original version 983:with that image , you can see 546:File:TeslaCybertruckUnveil.jpg 541:File:TeslaCybertruckUnveil.jpg 1: 3229:There is a consensus that it 3182:04:59, 14 December 2023 (UTC) 2429:04:09, 31 December 2023 (UTC) 2407:23:44, 30 December 2023 (UTC) 2373:02:58, 30 December 2023 (UTC) 2352:03:50, 29 December 2023 (UTC) 2336:16:20, 23 December 2023 (UTC) 2300:01:58, 29 December 2023 (UTC) 2263:18:53, 20 December 2023 (UTC) 2241:18:27, 19 December 2023 (UTC) 2226:06:42, 19 December 2023 (UTC) 2184:12:26, 18 December 2023 (UTC) 2169:04:31, 18 December 2023 (UTC) 2142:18:56, 20 December 2023 (UTC) 2052:00:24, 18 December 2023 (UTC) 1990:20:26, 15 December 2023 (UTC) 1936:09:15, 30 November 2023 (UTC) 1918:22:29, 29 November 2023 (UTC) 1898:00:11, 14 November 2023 (UTC) 1884:22:15, 13 November 2023 (UTC) 1869:20:09, 13 November 2023 (UTC) 1761:22:56, 13 December 2023 (UTC) 1725:17:48, 13 December 2023 (UTC) 1706:01:31, 11 December 2023 (UTC) 1638:04:07, 13 December 2023 (UTC) 1620:02:48, 13 December 2023 (UTC) 1603:00:05, 13 December 2023 (UTC) 1576:21:23, 12 December 2023 (UTC) 1269:17:24, 21 December 2019 (UTC) 1254:12:21, 17 December 2019 (UTC) 1231:12:12, 17 December 2019 (UTC) 1163: 1081:. Currently, they are not. - 1079:Commons:Template:Derived from 1003:15:03, 26 December 2019 (UTC) 976:21:23, 25 December 2019 (UTC) 959:01:08, 23 December 2019 (UTC) 942:03:58, 18 December 2019 (UTC) 925:17:12, 17 December 2019 (UTC) 907:13:56, 17 December 2019 (UTC) 889:17:40, 16 December 2019 (UTC) 870:20:11, 15 December 2019 (UTC) 856:19:40, 15 December 2019 (UTC) 835:13:28, 12 December 2019 (UTC) 772:07:23, 11 December 2019 (UTC) 742:04:45, 11 December 2019 (UTC) 628:05:25, 11 December 2019 (UTC) 614:10:47, 10 December 2019 (UTC) 502:07:01, 28 November 2019 (UTC) 483:15:15, 27 November 2019 (UTC) 451:12:53, 29 November 2019 (UTC) 431:10:29, 27 November 2019 (UTC) 398:14:45, 23 November 2019 (UTC) 374:09:45, 23 November 2019 (UTC) 330:23:55, 30 November 2019 (UTC) 311:12:57, 29 November 2019 (UTC) 293:19:06, 22 November 2019 (UTC) 274:17:26, 22 November 2019 (UTC) 254:03:35, 22 November 2019 (UTC) 204:16:06, 21 November 2019 (UTC) 160:18:55, 14 November 2019 (UTC) 3626:18:39, 20 January 2024 (UTC) 3605:02:49, 11 January 2024 (UTC) 3582:23:52, 10 January 2024 (UTC) 3243:01:38, 7 February 2024 (UTC) 3196:07:00, 14 January 2024 (UTC) 3186:That makes it clear. Thanks 3167:23:33, 2 December 2023 (UTC) 2123:11:24, 4 November 2023 (UTC) 2104:12:04, 26 October 2023 (UTC) 2090:00:13, 26 October 2023 (UTC) 2075:21:50, 3 February 2023 (UTC) 2033:22:01, 6 December 2023 (UTC) 2013:18:20, 6 December 2023 (UTC) 1960:05:08, 9 November 2023 (UTC) 1854:11:32, 4 November 2023 (UTC) 1839:12:02, 26 October 2023 (UTC) 1801:, making comparisons with a 1786:21:15, 20 October 2023 (UTC) 1676:13:14, 9 December 2023 (UTC) 1291:14:50, 7 February 2020 (UTC) 1259:wedge electric minicars) -- 1196:14:11, 7 February 2020 (UTC) 1179:18:55, 1 February 2020 (UTC) 1154:09:17, 28 January 2020 (UTC) 1135:22:59, 12 January 2020 (UTC) 1116:02:36, 12 January 2020 (UTC) 668:05:10, 8 February 2020 (UTC) 598:10:38, 8 December 2019 (UTC) 577:09:00, 6 December 2019 (UTC) 558:07:08, 6 December 2019 (UTC) 536:00:36, 4 December 2019 (UTC) 348:12:30, 1 December 2019 (UTC) 117:04:06, 18 January 2022 (UTC) 3940:03:55, 5 January 2024 (UTC) 3925:20:43, 4 January 2024 (UTC) 3908:13:07, 4 January 2024 (UTC) 3893:10:04, 4 January 2024 (UTC) 3845:03:48, 6 January 2024 (UTC) 3818:01:19, 6 January 2024 (UTC) 3787:04:46, 5 January 2024 (UTC) 3740:04:01, 5 January 2024 (UTC) 3709:13:05, 4 January 2024 (UTC) 3689:09:52, 4 January 2024 (UTC) 3551:10:33, 9 January 2024 (UTC) 3510:23:09, 8 January 2024 (UTC) 3468:19:31, 8 January 2024 (UTC) 3438:16:07, 6 January 2024 (UTC) 3415:09:54, 6 January 2024 (UTC) 3371:18:20, 8 January 2024 (UTC) 3338:17:35, 8 January 2024 (UTC) 3311:04:02, 7 January 2024 (UTC) 3276:21:59, 5 January 2024 (UTC) 3143:19:52, 8 January 2024 (UTC) 3116:01:54, 5 January 2024 (UTC) 3092:20:28, 5 January 2024 (UTC) 3062:06:28, 5 January 2024 (UTC) 3043:01:39, 5 January 2024 (UTC) 3027:00:54, 5 January 2024 (UTC) 3000:01:06, 5 January 2024 (UTC) 2964:23:38, 4 January 2024 (UTC) 2944:17:26, 3 January 2024 (UTC) 2926:14:31, 3 January 2024 (UTC) 2875:11:26, 2 January 2024 (UTC) 2848:11:07, 2 January 2024 (UTC) 2829:08:58, 2 January 2024 (UTC) 2798:18:26, 1 January 2024 (UTC) 2778:15:22, 1 January 2024 (UTC) 2733:14:05, 3 January 2024 (UTC) 2707:20:21, 1 January 2024 (UTC) 2680:20:13, 1 January 2024 (UTC) 2630:10:33, 3 January 2024 (UTC) 2612:03:25, 1 January 2024 (UTC) 2582:01:24, 1 January 2024 (UTC) 2552:01:29, 1 January 2024 (UTC) 2536:00:44, 1 January 2024 (UTC) 2494:02:33, 1 January 2024 (UTC) 2479:02:28, 1 January 2024 (UTC) 2464:01:42, 1 January 2024 (UTC) 2446:01:39, 1 January 2024 (UTC) 1090:06:36, 8 January 2020 (UTC) 1066:15:15, 4 January 2020 (UTC) 1054:08:32, 4 January 2020 (UTC) 1034:08:24, 4 January 2020 (UTC) 1021:12:00, 3 January 2020 (UTC) 3958: 3863:07:37, 14 March 2024 (UTC) 3328:evaluating exactly that. 2387:why it's not a third party 1534:15:01, 9 August 2022 (UTC) 1506:09:16, 6 August 2022 (UTC) 1484:18:33, 5 August 2022 (UTC) 1470:10:10, 5 August 2022 (UTC) 1452:08:56, 5 August 2022 (UTC) 1418:07:56, 5 August 2022 (UTC) 1392:06:21, 5 August 2022 (UTC) 1375:23:38, 4 August 2022 (UTC) 641:Which image should we use? 132:Smith, Mike (2015-07-01). 2179:tests looking into this. 1799:self-levelling suspension 719:(3) lightened++ + cropped 175:Musk, Elon (2019-06-11). 3633:Please do not modify it. 3500:to overturn the ruling. 3482:, which are low quality. 3218:Please do not modify it. 2859:control/feedback section 2651:or not, it is excessive 1488:Looking around, I think 1322:14:05, 16 May 2020 (UTC) 1204:Please do not modify it. 677:Please do not modify it. 3871:Discussion about patent 2647:not this is considered 2389:, the sources added in 693:(1) Original photograph 490:File:Cybertrucklogo.svg 3386:Munro & Associates 3082:noticeboard. Cheers. 2863:range extender section 2741:Use of primary sources 2395:WP:Independent sources 2233:Largely Legible Layman 2161:Largely Legible Layman 1492:fits even better than 1327:Unibody vs exoskeleton 1300: 1215:Per Popular Mechanics 1159:Image 3, more or less. 781:: difficult question: 488:So it is available at 235:(Tweet) – via Twitter. 223:(Tweet) – via Twitter. 3673:relevant to the topic 3665:independently-sourced 3262:policy, particularly 1428:Is this the patent ? 1304:'Also called' section 1298: 144:Tesla… What the hell? 91:. Student editor(s): 42:of past discussions. 18:Talk:Tesla Cybertruck 3833:the exterior section 3825:this Top Gear review 3644:There appears to be 3284:Furthermore, on the 1696:shown off in 2019. 998:We keep what we kill 3829:updated the article 3342:The evidence is in 3213:request for comment 3102:Good article status 2653:significant figures 2642:Significant figures 2524:the current version 1211:Similar car designs 364:optional extra. -- 3806:added and modified 3716:Care to elaborate? 3677:useful for readers 2861:(and possibly the 1301: 899:Periwinklewrinkles 678: 583:Long cargo loading 528:Community Tech bot 517:Cybertrucklogo.svg 140:Newark, California 95:. 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