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Talk:The Battle for Sanskrit

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630:
different, I suppose), scholars, writing reviews in scholarly journals. If there are no scholarly sources, then, I guess, newspapers and magazines and the like. If no such publications are available, then maybe Koenraad Elst could be mentioned, but with mentioning the context, that his, his 'pro-traditional interpretations of Indian history and religion'. Or something like "The book attarcted a lot of attention by Hindutva/nationalist/name-an-alternative writers, but was ignored/n.a.a. by the scholarly press."
1522:- I would prefer the page to remain. There was another academic review I found in my files, and added it to the Further reading list. I admit that the book didn't receive a lot of attention in the media, despite my expectations, but I think it was a result of a misguided campaign against the Murty Classical Library, which sidetracked everybody from the book. But I think the book represents a legitimate point of view, which should be represented without disdain. -- 81: 178: 71: 53: 463: 385: 1215:, and at least notify the India project. I note that when you did the undiscussed conversion to a redirect (which I reverted), you simply redirected it, so blanking the page, not even removing the "main article" link to here. Not winning awards is no reason for effective deletion. Pollock's complaints about it themselves strengthen notability. Maybe an Afd would have been better. 357: 371: 168: 273: 252: 147: 22: 395: 283: 1587:, petitioned (change.org/p/harper-collins-india-in-view-of-the-widespread-plagiarism-found-in-rajiv-malhotra-s-book-indra-s-net-published-by-harper-collins-india-we-call-on-the-publisher-to-make-a-formal-public-apology-and-to-withdraw-the-book-from-the-market) Harper Collins to withdraw Malhotra's Indra's Net on charges of plagiarism. You can see RFY's 1544:. The supporters of Malhotra then mobilised on change.org (www.change.org/p/publishers-of-rajiv-malhotra-s-books-do-not-yield-to-mafia-pressure-tactics-that-seek-to-compromise-intellectual-freedom) and persuaded the publisher. Pity that none of this was covered in the media. (If it happened today, there would have been a huge hooplah.) -- 1442:
If you start by saying "not reliable" without indicating what the problem is, and then you start yelling at everyone who's not convinced, don't be surprised if people get tired of you. I'm happy you feel things: maybe then take this shit to RSN; be my guest. That's more fruitful, because it invites
1270:- Nowhere has Pollock commented on the book, to the best of my knowledge. Malhotra mentioned the book in a petition to remove Pollock from heading the Murthy Classical Library; accordingly, the book was name-dropped in a few articles on the controversy. We cover the controversy, in details, both at 633:
Maybe more important for now is to give a synopsis, in a more or less neutral way (more or less; I don't ecpect miracles in this regard), so readers get an impression what the book is about. I hope this helps? NB: I've already searchng several times for reviews; so far, the book seems to be ignored
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I see more value in the Rediff article than you do, the Indiafacts article (well, obvious POV piece) has some merit, the Jankriti International Magazine seems to have been legit at some point. Your assessment of the three you mention was "are not reliable"--well, you need to do better than that. I
972:"specifically targeting alienated social groups": why the removal of dalits etc? This is vague and uninformative. And how are these groups being targeted? Are they attacked? And how is Sanskrit (I guess that this is what "subject" refers to) being denigrated by targetting "alienated social groups"? 629:
Koenraad Elst is notable for his, let's say, pro-traditional interpretations of Indian history and religion. Nobody expects a, let's say, 'neutral' review by him. "Critical analysis of the book by notable, published critics" first of all means, regarding this book (for example, the criteria may be
1056:
Swarajya is biased source which I agree but it’s reliable and nowhere mentioned that for notability it should be unbiased. Also, it’s not associated with author of book. Book has created enough momentum of approaching language through dharma shashtras and so called Acharyas as Malhotra describes.
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Please: writing an encyclopedia does not mean copy-pasting quotes. Especially if only quotes from the author and affiliated sources are being used. No NPOV, no context from neutral sources. And yes, indeed, this is an example of tagging new "articles" - better said, scrapbook-pages.
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What you have added to the Further Reading section is not a book review. If you see the date carefully, it was long before the book was published; Taylor was responding to Malhotra's "plenary session address to the 16th World Sanskrit Conference in Bangkok" on the same theme.
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If you do not like the "unfortunate" rules, initiate a RfC to convince the community and I will happily abide by. Till then, whether you feel that my tactics are underhanded or not is irrelevant. Comment on content; not on contributors.There exists nothing to be merged
1311:, just sticking a redirect on and moving off to edit something else. This is (unfortunately) within the rules, but pretty underhand, so don't complain about "aspersions" if tou get called out on it. As you say, we cover the controversy at the other articles, but 806:"Primary sources are original materials that are close to an event, and are often accounts written by people who are directly involved. They offer an insider's view of an event, a period of history, a work of art, a political decision, and so on." 764:
Ehm... "fair enough," but the website-promo is still there? I also think it does not belong there; it's meant to sweep the sales. Readers can as well go to the website; they don't need Knowledge to read this. We should provide an extra!
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bibliographic index of repute and appears to be one of the many low-tier/predatory journals that exist in India. I feel that RSN is a better venue to sort the issue of reliability because such concerns will cloud a potential AfD?
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That's a good question! At least, you could summarize those "reviews," and make clear that the reviewers are sympathetic to Rajiv malhotra. See also the next thread, "Reception." NB: I appreciate the change of tone.
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Debroy's opinion because the rest of the sources are unreliable. Or, do you dispute that? Or maybe, you feel that the chapter-wise summaries — sourced from the book itself — should have been merged; who knows?
576:"include facts (with a cited source), and the opinions of notable people that have been published in some form. The section should be reserved for critical analysis of the book by notable, published critics. 1307:(but it might get reverted). Otherwise, the merge should be first proposed and discussed, as detailed below...." If you thought this was uncontroversial, you were obviously wrong. Plus you have made 1170:~15 citations per GScholar (not 32) in seven years, do not show that the book had any meaningful impact in scholarship. Neither do I know that this book is used for any course in any reputed university. 969:": which subject is being denigrated here, and by who? Is Sanskrit being denigrated by American Indologists, or is liberation philology being used by Malhotra to denigrate American indologists? 1558:
None of this is based in policy, whatsoever. We do not keep articles because they are legitimate (or illegitimate) points of view in our eyes. For an example, I created our article on
811:
Srinivasan and banerjee are definitely primary sources, participating in Malhotra's Battle. This is supposed to be an encyclopedic article, not an advertisement for the book.
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I do not recall anything on academics petitioning HC to not publish future works (TBS -?); do you? The whole petition and counter-petition was limited to Indra's Net.
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Ah, you did find some more. Funny, despite the "battering," I do sense a lot of respect from Rajiv Malhotra for Sheldon Pollock. I haven't read the book though, yet.
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In that case, where are the sources? Do you dispute my assessment of reliability of Indiafacts.org / Jankriti International Magazine / sandeepweb.com etc.? Thanks,
1058: 565: 918:"Being influenced by Marxism, it aims to empower alienated social groups such as dalits, women and Muslims in their struggle against oppressive cultural forces." 1592: 1689: 234: 224: 1233:. And, if you had clicked on the hyperlink to NBOOK, you would have known that a criterion for meeting notability is winning an award of significance. 1704: 1694: 339: 329: 1062: 1460:, you are not being yelled at. Editors are expect to be diligent in evaluating sources with tell-tale signs of unreliability than be spoon-fed. 1714: 453: 443: 200: 1684: 1156: 864:
Srinivasan and Banerjee are combattant's in Malhotra's Battle. Besides, the other issue is not solved either: no context has been provided.
1724: 1679: 839:"Primary sources are original materials that are close to an event, and are often accounts written by people who are directly involved. 305: 101: 678:
reliable sources, and avoid propaganda put out by the author and the publisher. Your reinstatement of the so-called "Synopsis" section
1699: 1094: 1066: 1005: 191: 152: 105: 1709: 955:"Marxism" is a clear explanation, while "liberation philology" begs for an explanation, even the more since the linked article 1674: 296: 257: 714:
Summaries don't need to be sourced, provided they are objective and factual. However, you can also take material from here:
1211:
Of course not many here like Malhotra's views, but that does not excuse cancelling him. Please do the proper tagging, per
1084: 33: 700:, fair enough. I'll update it with a 100 words summary. Does it have to be sourced? If I write one, would that be okay? 1160: 671: 418: 408: 362: 95: 58: 1581:
I hear that 250 scholars and intellectuals wrote to the publisher asking them not to publish The Battle for Sanskrit.
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They offer an insider's view of an event, a period of history, a work of art, a political decision, and so on
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think this isn't great but has some notability, and if you don't agree with Johnbod or me, send it to AfD.
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among others — and the controversy has been covered with all relevant details in our article on the book.
1571: 1508: 1465: 1429: 1387: 1344: 1283: 1238: 1195: 1562:— another intellectual from Malhotra's camp — because he had received ample coverage in reliable sources. 39: 1626: 1596: 1486: 1071: 1065:
source tells about to start new moment so that ‘outsider’ can’t translate so called holy scriptures.
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That's not a minor copy-edit; that's a substantial change, which left an incomprehensible sentence:
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Indiafacts is a far-right-Hindu blog; not even a news website! Jankriti has never been indexed in
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
1625:"Withdraw" is not the same as "not to publish," but I do recall Malhotra was severly criticised. 1485:
No problem with merging. The synopsis is incomplete, and the reception-section doesn't add much.
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https://www.academia.edu/22413957/Book_Review_not_by_me_The_Battle_for_Sanskrit_by_Rajiv_Malhotra
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for how articles about books should be structured. Your best is to follow that structure. Use
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I hear that 250 scholars and intellectuals wrote to the publisher asking them not to publish
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which says the book has stopped work of one library. This is more than enough to have page. —
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no attempt to actually merge the much longer material in this article into the other article
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Indiafacts.org, Jankriti International Magazine, sandeepweb.com etc. are not reliable.
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review in any academic journal or MSM except the cited articles from Rediff and Open.
1303:: "No permission or discussion is needed if you think the merge is uncontroversial; 1229:
There is no policy that mandates discussion before an unilateral redirect or merge.
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Who's problem is it if none of Malhotra's critics are writing reviews of his books?
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Thnaks. The review is by Shrinivas Tilak; also available at battleforsanskrit.com:
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Trivial namedrops can be found in the cited article from Business Standard (or
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Reviews / Commercial and critical reception / Criticism / Analysis / Reception
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Marxism, Liberation Philology, and targetting "alienated social groups"
272: 251: 167: 146: 100:. To participate in the project, please visit its page, where you can 1583:- Nope; this was about a different book. A bunch of scholars, led by 370: 416:-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the 1001:
Just leaving a review here for anyone to update the article with..
962:"and use it": is "it" American Indology, or "liberation philology"? 832:
A primary source is a document from an event or period of history:
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Pollock's complaints about it themselves strengthen notability.
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the afore-cited review lends to the notability of the book.
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Book has been discussed with Sheldon Pollock’s interview
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A primary source would be a Sanskrit document from 1300.
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The book did not win any major (or even, minor!) award.
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Of the two, the former — whose author has written for
1599:, I assume that I am not misremembering the details? 681:
is no good. This is not synopsis, it is promotion. -
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http://battleforsanskrit.com/shrinivas-tilak-review/
300:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 195:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 1313:
we don't cover the book itself in any detail at all
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by specifically targeting alienated social groups."
582:That clearly excludes people like Koenraad Elst. 1443:other editors, and it'll show up in the record. 412:, which aims to improve Knowledge's coverage of 836: 566:Knowledge:WikiProject Books/Non-fiction article 112:. To improve this article, please refer to the 8: 959:says nothing about "liberation philology"; 351: 246: 141: 108:. To use this banner, please refer to the 47: 1591:, too. That did receive media coverage — 1361:I don't see a good reason to merge this. 1107:I propose that this article be merged to 1720:C-Class India articles of Low-importance 106:discuss matters related to book articles 353: 248: 143: 114:relevant guideline for the type of work 49: 19: 1580: 1267: 1249:A criterion, but not a necessary one! 1179:accusing scholars of ignoring his book 1134:among similar publications — is junk. 928:"He presents how it is influenced by 7: 1231:Please do not cast aspersions either 406:This article is within the scope of 294:This article is within the scope of 189:This article is within the scope of 92:This article is within the scope of 1690:Low-importance Linguistics articles 1083:Meh. I will open a merge proposal. 38:It is of interest to the following 724:, OPEN Magazine, 26 February 2016. 470:This article was last assessed in 14: 941:with the following edit summary: 209:Knowledge:WikiProject Linguistics 1705:Low-importance Hinduism articles 1695:WikiProject Linguistics articles 393: 383: 369: 355: 281: 271: 250: 212:Template:WikiProject Linguistics 176: 166: 145: 79: 69: 51: 20: 448:This article has been rated as 334:This article has been rated as 229:This article has been rated as 314:Knowledge:WikiProject Hinduism 1: 1715:Low-importance India articles 1177:The author appears to agree, 317:Template:WikiProject Hinduism 308:and see a list of open tasks. 203:and see a list of open tasks. 1685:C-Class Linguistics articles 1652:10:05, 7 December 2022 (UTC) 1638:09:32, 7 December 2022 (UTC) 1609:09:00, 7 December 2022 (UTC) 1576:04:42, 7 December 2022 (UTC) 1554:22:26, 6 December 2022 (UTC) 1532:22:09, 6 December 2022 (UTC) 1513:11:22, 5 December 2022 (UTC) 1498:07:03, 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1012:Crawford88 799:WP:PRIMARY 722:Home Alone 472:April 2016 1593:Scroll.in 1546:Kautilya3 1524:Kautilya3 957:Philology 911:This edit 731:Kautilya3 698:Kautilya3 683:Kautilya3 560:Reception 1113:WP:NBOOK 1073:Harshil 913:changed 311:Hinduism 302:Hinduism 258:Hinduism 1317:Johnbod 1251:Johnbod 1217:Johnbod 967:subject 934:subject 452:on the 338:on the 233:on the 30:C-class 1589:letter 1458:Please 1445:Drmies 1403:Drmies 1380:Drmies 1363:Drmies 1336:except 1161:HTMint 923:into 36:scale. 1103:Merge 425:India 414:India 363:India 119:Books 59:Books 1648:talk 1605:talk 1572:talk 1550:talk 1528:talk 1520:Keep 1509:talk 1466:talk 1449:talk 1430:talk 1407:talk 1388:talk 1367:talk 1345:talk 1321:talk 1284:talk 1274:and 1255:talk 1239:talk 1221:talk 1196:talk 1159:and 1143:only 1063:This 1059:here 1016:talk 885:See 735:talk 706:talk 687:talk 614:talk 564:See 526:talk 104:and 1421:any 1121:any 1090:WBG 444:Low 330:Low 225:Low 1671:: 1650:) 1607:) 1574:) 1552:) 1530:) 1511:) 1468:) 1451:) 1432:) 1409:) 1390:) 1369:) 1347:) 1323:) 1286:) 1278:. 1257:) 1241:) 1223:) 1198:) 1115:: 1061:. 1029:. 1018:) 843:." 801:: 737:) 729:- 720:, 708:) 689:) 616:) 571:: 528:) 1646:( 1631:- 1603:( 1570:( 1548:( 1526:( 1507:( 1491:- 1464:( 1447:( 1428:( 1405:( 1386:( 1365:( 1343:( 1319:( 1282:( 1253:( 1237:( 1219:( 1194:( 1086:∯ 1037:- 1014:( 983:- 889:. 872:- 819:- 773:- 751:- 733:( 704:( 696:@ 685:( 668:: 664:@ 642:- 627:: 623:@ 612:( 604:@ 590:- 578:" 543:- 524:( 516:@ 502:- 474:. 456:. 422:. 342:. 237:. 116:. 42::

Index


content assessment
WikiProjects
WikiProject icon
Books
WikiProject icon
icon
Books portal
WikiProject Books
join the project
discuss matters related to book articles
documentation
relevant guideline for the type of work
WikiProject icon
Linguistics
WikiProject icon
icon
Linguistics portal
WikiProject Linguistics
linguistics
the discussion
Low
project's importance scale
WikiProject icon
Hinduism
WikiProject icon
Hinduism portal
WikiProject Hinduism
Hinduism
the discussion

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