1001:, but I disagree that the pages you mention need to be consistent in this sense. Look at the Women's Twenty20 article which is very different again. As Spike mentioned, ODIs still have multiple statuses so I wouldn't consider applying the same rule there. What works there, in my opinion at least, does not work here anymore. My main beef is why the need to show the first time a team played after an arbitrary date of 1 Jan 2019, given that the likes of Scotland and the UAE for example have played consistently for a number of years beforehand (yes temp status, but essentially in Scotland's case continuous). Is anyone interested in when Ireland first played a T20I after gaining Full Member status, rather than when they played their first T20I? I do feel pretty strongly on this, but at the end of the day, if I can't convince you it's no problem
776:
Kenya, Scotland, UAE etc... I don't care when they played their first match after 1 Jan 2019, rather it is interesting to see when they first played, which would put them much higher up the list than at present. Given that all teams now have 'permanent status' (so long as they remain full/associate members), I believe that a single list would be cleaner and easier to understand. The supporting paragraph can explain the history of teams getting T20I status, i.e. full members, temporary status, and the 2019 change.
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separate list beneath this listing the outdated permanent list and temporary lists? That might get too lengthy though. Also in the temporary status list, shouldn't the end dates be when they lost status, not when they last played a match... e.g. Scotland never lost status; they still held it at the end of 2018 (would have held it until the 2019 t20 qualifier, and in fact probably until the next 50 over world cup qualifier).
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1528:â If I understand correctly, y'all are saying that the many uses of "Twenty20 international" in books are not referring to the same thing as "Twenty20 International" capped. Please help me understand this, perhaps with examples of where the lowercase version doesn't refer to the topic of this article.
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We canât state that the countries had permanent status prior to 2019, as they didnât. The status given to countries like Kenya was purely temporary. Again, as I said earlier, your proposal might be all well and good for T20I history, but it doesnât really work for the ODI page. Itâs important that we
775:
I feel that the list of teams here should be a single list/table with each team in order of when they played their first T20I, regardless of whether, at the time, they had 'permanent' status (due to being a full member), temporary status, special status, or permanent since 2019 status. Examples being
1170:
Haha, yes as strongly as I feel about the current format being poor (who really cares when a team played their first T20I after 1 January 2019, or their first T20I as a full member, as opposed to when they played their first ever T20I?), I tried to - in my opinion - significantly improve it but was
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Agree with both Spike and J man708. Perhaps the list/table should be on its own article linked from here. It is only going to get bigger! Malaysia and
Thailand this month during a triangular series, Singapore in July during the Asia qualifier, Samoa in July during the Pacific Games, also Finland in
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While I still strongly stand by my suggestions, I do agree a compromise is perfectly possible and glad we are having a sensible discussion. A sortable table in which columns include, say, first ever t20i date (and link to series), and if you want it the first t20i after gaining 'permanent' status -
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ODIs are a separate issue. The timeframe is much shorter for T20I history for one. Conversely it otherwise looks very weird to have the UAE or
Scotland listed way down the list when they had in fact played 10 years before the teams debuting in 2019, and played fairly consistently through that time.
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undid the tabular back to old indexed suggesting that the previous status gave more clarity. After reading his suggestion, I felt that the previous "Temporary Status" table was too big but I reverted to tabular format while dividing it into 2 tables for better clarity with the 2nd one being hidden.
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In addition, in the current format shouldn't the old 'permanent status' teams also be listed in the 'teams that have played after 2019' list (as they have done so, like other teams who had played before also)? I appreciate that's not the option, but perhaps have one main list as I had done, then a
835:
The problem is that while itâs all well and good for the T20I article, this doesnât extend to the ODI article, as we would see it stating that Canada had been playing cricket prior to say South Africa. Yes, they did play a few ODI matches, but these were as stated before prior to ODI status being
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Thatâs the shit thing, Spike. What works for one doesnât work for the other. Iâm not against change for any of the articles, but I do insist that whatever changes are made to this article also be able to be utilised for the ODI (and Test) articles. As a middle ground, could we maybe agree that a
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International is a specific designation that is part of the title, it's a Twenty20 International match. Same as how it's a One Day
International match. Not sure what data that graph is picking up, is it just from random hits on Google Books? And all international T20 matches are now official
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Internationals, which wasn't the case until 2018, so claiming something based on outdated data with no explanation of how the data graph is finding its data is an adequate justification for a change. All proper reliable sources use
International not international, and so that is the clear
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The rules might be different of the two, but theyâre both sports, both cricket, both internationals, both short form types of limited overs games. Theyâre literally as close as possible. They both follow the same styling template overall which is also featured on the test cricket
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Also, a much smaller point, but if two teams debut at the same time, would it be better to list alphabetically rather than by 'who batted first' which seems somewhat unusual in my opinion (batting isn't superior to bowling, and a team doesn't need to bat in order to debut)?
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still felt that the indexed format was better and undid the tabular back to old indexed one. I still feel that the tabular is better and it also contains more information than just dates. Would like to know what other user's prefer between the two (if any).
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I definitely see your point, but I disagree with the stance you have. Either way, I reckon we could make a pretty good compromise by changing the list into a table, which should hopefully give us a column/row where we can add in the disambiguating info? -
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The rules are different for ODIs and T20Is, so I have no problem if the pages look slightly different. Nowhere does it state a team had permanent status before they did, and I also think that this list makes a lot more sense than what was here before.
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I found that you removed Nepal's entry from previous list as they have currently having T20I status, but they have previously having T20I status and then failed to retain. In this new edit, we can't know for which duration they had T20I status.
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I had created the status into tabular forms as this was suggested into on the talk page of ODIs. Similar ideas about confusing dates were had been suggested above and therefore I added the tournaments through which qualification was decided.
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All this civility! Iâm not used to it! Yeah, I reckon your idea sounds good. Spike, your comment makes me ask if this list/table is too long to show in its current form on here? Perhaps we could split it into two rows? Again, just ideas. -
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I'd leave the ODI article as it is, as there are still different statuses. I've never mentioned any specific teams, but do think it is erroneous to have all the existing T20I teams who had continuing international status way down the list.
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table is better to show here, or we could even create a new article to show the ridiculously large list of growing T20I nations? Iâd have better compromise ideas, but itâs 2:30am here on Monday morning. Brain no work gooderer at night. -
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There are certainly no teams who played T20I cricket without having the status outside of a specific tournament ("special status"). Having a 'Permanent status' section when in fact all teams have permanent status seems redundant also.
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July, Cayman
Islands in August during the Americas qualifier, then there are the South American Championships in October (I have no details of this but the Brazilian association contacted me to let me know it is happening (!)...
1123:
This has all gone a bit quiet, I'll see if I can create a trial table, which checking into the ODI article, I started doing there too in 2018 (on the talk page) but it never got promoted. Maybe I'll try both at the same time.
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1064:(name TBD) with columns for 1st T20I, date of accession to Full status, possibly first game after that, and then notes where teams like Ireland and Scotland could have some more details of previous temp status mentioned.
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Giving out T20I status to anyone was such a near-sighted move that clearly doesnât have
Knowledge (XXG) in mind! Honestly, itâs one thing having teams like Canada and Uganda get it, but Thailand and Brazil?... -
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I don't even see an issue with how it is now, tbh. But should it need to be changed to a table (which again I don't think it does), then we really don't need THAT table. The term "clusterfuck" comes to mind... -
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I'm looking at the similar section on the ODI page. Whilst on the subject, I think the dates need amending to be the dates the status was earned / taken away, rather than the span of actual match dates.
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1322:. The thing is, as explained in the article, from 2005 to 2018, T20Is did not cover all international T20 matches - only those between top teams. Hence, "Twenty20 International" is a technical term.
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I did wonder if I should leave it in, I was weighing up whether it was more confusing having them in both lists or not mentioning their previous T20I stint. I think the choices are:
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Agreed - if it has to be a table then keep it simple and please don't try and use colour alone to indicate meaning. That opens a whole pile of usability and accessibility issues.
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Why does it come across as an issue to you that a country such as Kenya is so low on the list, but you wouldnât care that Canada would be placed so high on the ODI list?
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The first point really bugs me. The second point less so. Any complaints if I draft up an intro paragraph summarising the history of status (permanent, temporary, etc)?
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granted to them. Whilst I see your point of view that it works chronologically, it seems a little short-sighted that it doesnât work for the ODI article. -
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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show consistency amongst these pages. You stated that it âlooks weirdâ that
Scotland and the UAE are listed down the list (which is very
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that automatically updates weekly to show all articles covered by this project which are marked with cleanup tags. (also available in
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ODIs are definitely the same issue. Theyâre a sister article of this one. Whatâs good for one article needs to work for the other.
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Ireland & Afghanistan are also shown with their temporary status Nepal can be added in both lists, or We can reword.
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reword the introduction to the list of previous teams to mention that it may include teams who have returned to T20I status.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Both points sound sensible to me (I may need to recheck what I've said above to check I'm not contradicting myself).
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There have been tables (but separate ones) in the past, agree that one would probably make sense either here or at
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In
English, capitalization is primarily needed for proper names, acronyms, and for the first letter of a sentence.
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Simply put, the table is WAAAAAY too complex. This way is not only simpler, it's also shorter and more concise. -
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suggestion in the above comments for capitalization in post-2018 references. ââ ââ
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I have put suggestion of table based list in ODI Talk page , so pl look it once.
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Can someone explain of provide a link on franchise cricket stats for players? --
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and articles about women's cricket generally especially biographies and tours
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EDIT - I thought the above response was from Bs1jac and not from Spike. -
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Add pictures (and remove template from address requests) in these
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yes, dates the status was earned / taken away is better option.
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Mention their previous stint on the same line as current status
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Create or expand articles on international tours from items in
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Create articles from redlinks and improve existing articles in
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Twenty20 International is the name of the format of fixtures.
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Create articles about 19th century players who are listed in
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which would be the same for some teams - might indeed work.
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reverted so kind of gave up and left it to the community!
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for cricketers who have excelled in international cricket.
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A number of lists need to be updated, can be found in
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Create biographies about Bangladeshi players from the
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On 5 July 2023, it was proposed that this article be
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1401:. What am I missing?
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1299:n-gram stats
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724:
721:This section
662:
581:
568:
422:
333:
297:one big list
263:spin bowling
231:fast bowling
151:
107:
51:WikiProjects
34:
1552:BarrelProof
1453:BarrelProof
1417:WP:MOS:CAPS
1320:ICC website
1225:move review
1193:UserHerName
215:for details
41:Start-class
1579:Categories
1513:Rugbyfan22
1255:STUFF DONE
1234:not moved.
684:Shubham389
524:Wiktionary
301:CSV format
122:talk pages
1126:Spike 'em
1066:Spike 'em
954:Spike 'em
918:Spike 'em
797:Spike 'em
623:Spike 'em
583:Spike 'em
569:not moved
308:Infoboxes
247:leg break
39:is rated
1530:Dicklyon
1526:Question
1481:MOS:CAPS
1449:MOS:CAPS
1435:Dicklyon
1403:Dicklyon
1318:per the
1303:Dicklyon
1281:Dicklyon
1140:J man708
1111:J man708
1081:J man708
1033:J man708
969:J man708
939:J man708
931:article.
903:J man708
838:J man708
739:J man708
699:J man708
675:J man708
666:J man708
373:Zimbabwe
1260:mention
727:Lugnuts
480:Expand
459:Expand
454:Umpires
347:Create
299:and in
286:Cleanup
255:not out
243:innings
225:Update
181:history
154:on the
127:Cricket
118:project
114:cricket
70:Cricket
1509:Oppose
1490:Joseph
1472:Oppose
1399:WP:MOS
1381:WP:MOS
1379:. Per
1360:Anselm
1329:Anselm
1316:Oppose
1173:Bs1jac
1096:Bs1jac
1048:Bs1jac
1018:Bs1jac
1003:Bs1jac
865:Bs1jac
815:Bs1jac
782:Bs1jac
493:Update
416:Images
271:wicket
239:googly
203:Check
47:scale.
1544:think
643:H1007
588:H1007
557:moved
513:Other
475:Women
191:purge
186:watch
28:This
1556:talk
1534:talk
1517:talk
1500:talk
1495:2302
1457:talk
1439:talk
1425:talk
1407:talk
1389:talk
1377:Keep
1364:talk
1333:talk
1307:talk
1295:Note
1285:talk
1246:LYDE
1197:talk
1177:talk
1144:talk
1130:talk
1115:talk
1100:talk
1085:talk
1070:talk
1052:talk
1037:talk
1022:talk
1007:talk
973:talk
958:talk
943:talk
922:talk
907:talk
869:talk
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819:talk
801:talk
786:talk
757:talk
743:talk
717:this
703:talk
688:talk
679:talk
670:talk
647:talk
627:talk
592:talk
567:was
502:and
431:here
408:for
360:here
358:and
356:here
176:edit
146:High
120:and
1353:).
1262:me)
559:to
522:to
446:at
1581::
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1356:St
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484:,
467:;
463:;
386:;
382:;
269:,
265:,
261:,
257:,
253:,
249:,
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229:,
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158:.
53::
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