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1148:. Unlike places of worship of other faiths, where architecture is the focus, reliable sources also detail legends and mentions in scriptures, which does not generally apply other religions' shrines. Comprehensiveness can not be sacrificed to appease the average reader of Knowledge (XXG). Vimala is not a distinct goddess. It is the name of the presiding icon/goddess. "In Shakti Pitha lists" which was removed only mentions the legend as well as mentions in sacred texts. --
1126:. To the average English reader I think it looks like Hindu gobbledy-gook and irrelevant to learning about the temple. It is exceptionally difficult to understand. If I came across that independently I'd be put off wanting to read the article. Vimala should have its own article and most of that content not about the temple put in it. It strikes me out of place here and affects readability, even if a brief context is relevant.♦
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1041:"The niches and intervening recesses of the talajangha with khakhara mundis, simhavidalas (a lion-faced beast), Gajavidalas (a elephant-faced lion trampling a lion), jaliwork, scrollwork, sikshadana scene of saints and kirtimukha (a monster face) motifs, along with the figurines of eight Dikpalas (guardian gods of the directions) with their mounts and some goddesses." Not a sentence (verb missing).
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967:"Vimala (Bimala) is worshipped as the presiding goddess of the Purushottama (Puri) Pitha. Jagannath, a form of the god Vishnu/Krishna (Krishna is generally regarded as an avatar of Vishnu), is worshipped as the Pitha's Bhairava. This is a departure from the usual tradition of Bhairava being a form of Shiva. So, in this temple complex, Vishnu–one of the
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1027:" King Narasimhadeva, who ruled between 1623-47, ended the meat and fish offerings of the goddess too, however the goddess is still offered meat and fish, but no wine."Is that "too" required? Also,if Narasimhadeva ended the practice in 1600s, was the practice revitalized again (since Vimala gets meat and fish at present, as it seems from the text)?
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1114:"Parshvadevatas (attendant deities) are placed in the central niches of the bada on three sides: the eight-armed Durga slaying Mahishasura on the south; the six-armed goddess Chamunda standing on Shiva, who lies on the ground on the west and an empty niche on the north, probably also having a goddess figure, which was stolen." Citation needed.
957:"Vimala (Bimala) is worshipped as the presiding goddess of the Purushottama (Puri) Pitha. Jagannath, a form of the god Vishnu/Krishna (Krishna is generally regarded as an avatar of Vishnu), is worshipped as the Pitha's Bhairava, traditionally a form of Shiva. Jagannath-Vishnu equated with Shiva, is interpreted to convey the oneness of God."
1712:
I am fine with the fixes. The image of the
Kalingan style has cleared lot of air - one suggestion is it can be resized and positioned. I am fine with the Relgious Significance section which details the significance and reasons out Shakti Pithas. I see there are suggestions to merge the first para and
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The
Jagannath triad as Brahma , Vishnu,Shiva is contreversial in the way you suggested. Jagannath alone is considered all 3 in one. The triad has many explainations of which the Buddhist Triratna and latter addition of Balabhadra and Subhadra to appease various cults are more accepted. Verier alwin
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So, I am unable to provide solution to the problems I found. Perhaps other reviewers may not find it it as big a problem, or, may provide solution, or, may accept the status quo. I have no problem in accepting the status quo and making this a GA, but I need second (or third) opinions before that.
1236:
The para is summary of the long Shakti Peetha legend. It is necessary to explain the relation between Sati's body part and the Shakti Pitha list as scriptures paras ahead relate the two. A non-Hindu will not otherwise understand the association. Also, without a short info about Daksha-yajna, one
1818:
There is no distinct goddess called Vimala. Only the presiding deity of this temple is called Vimala. Hinduism has deities associated with specific temples, Vimala is one of them. IMO, Dwaipayanc's edit has cut some detail and increased readability. The solution that I will suggest is move the
1215:
The mention of the temple as a Shakti Peetha ( and the variations of description) in different scriptures is ok and appropriate. But I think the whole detailed story of how Shakti
Peethas came into being ( the Dakhsha yagna, and the body parts falling) seems unnecessary in this article.a whole
1285:
The first sentence of this paragraph says, "Vimala (Bimala) is worshipped as the presiding goddess of the
Purushottama (Puri) Pitha". But the last sentence says,"Vimala is considered to be the guardian goddess of the temple complex, with Jagannath as the presiding god". I guess this apparent
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paragraph has is used to tell the story. The story deserves one or two summary sentences. You can explain what are Shakti
Peethas in the opening of this section, and then describe different scriptures describing this temple as one. The story of Daksha, Shiva, Parvati belongs to the
1730:
I am not reviewing this article anymore. I did review it earlier and commented that the article met all GA criteria except 1a (the prose is clear and concise, respects copyright laws, and the spelling and grammar are correct), specifically the "clear" part, for which I was in
1202:
Exactly why I left it, its technically right, but still heavy reading. I tried to make it clearer by adding the meaning of some of the architectural terms in brackets which has improved it I think. Can't really see what else I can do without losing information.. ♦
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The sections that I have my doubts on are—the whole "Architecture" section. This section uses loads of non-English words frequently. The problem is, I do not know how to avoid this. The description of architecture will inevitably involve the local language terms.
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The second paragraph of "Religious significance" needs some elucidation. The paragraph is ok to understand up to "... this is interpreted to convey the oneness of God.". Tne next sentence sentences starts with, "In this regard...". In what regard? Oneness of God
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I can provide the second opinion. I have expanded quite some articles of temples built in
Kalingan style. The architectural jargons may look complex for readers, but that is how even references are. I will list out my comments in a bit. 16:12, 6 January 2013
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She is considered the shakti of Vishnu as well as Shiva in the climactic Durga Puja festivities. -- who is considered? The deity in Vimala temple? Or in general the Hindu
Goddess? Also, do you mean the Durga Puja festivities in general or specific rituals in
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contradiction is due to different beliefs of the cults (Shakta versus Shaiva versus
Vaishnava etc). But it appears quite confusing. You probably need to work on this paragraph to portray the difference of beliefs among the branches of Hinduism more easily.--
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Despite the efforts by
Redtigerxyz (and slight effort from me), I am doubtful if the article meets the GA criteria 1a (the prose is clear and concise, respects copyright laws, and the spelling and grammar are correct), specifically the "clear" part.
1789:
The legend and mention in various sacred texts as well as
Jagannath being a Bhairava needs to be included for comprehensiveness. Unlike places of other religions, legends and religious significance generally dominate in books over architectural
1330:
The next section is the first part of "religious significance" (above "in Shakti Peetha list"). Although I myself am able to understand the meaning, I do not know if it is clear enough. It takes me more than one reading to grasp the meaning.
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First, let me apologize for considering the text too difficult in the initial review! It is difficult, but not extremely so. I was sleepy during the first time I was reading the article, and many sentences appeared quite tough! A tired mind.
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I've given a bit of a copyedit and clean to improve readability and understanding and have strengthened the intro. While some of the architectural detail is still a little difficult to follow, and some minor issues no doubt some will spot,
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This is not my suggestion. It is Starza's. Starza says that the triad have many identifications. Tribals, Buddhist are there. Subhadra/the goddess in the triad is identified with Brahma in this configuration. "According to Starza" added.
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Can English words be used from the second mention - ex. "The lintel of the parshvadevata " to "The lintel of the attendant deities" , "The goddess Vimala is deified within the garbhagriha" to "The goddess Vimala is deified within the
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the explanations within braces are varied. While in some parts, English is used and the vernacular names are put in braces, in other places it is viz. Can it be stream lined? ex. first part (pabhaga) and khakhara mundis (a type of
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Yes, the architecture description remains difficult to follow. There are so many non-English words, and the reader has difficulty to construct a mental image during reading. But I don't know if this can be improved in any
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and much of that material put in that article. It is important to be comprehensive but I genuinely I think it affects readability of an article about the temple, and I think readability is more important than anything.♦
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Religious significance section down. Proposed order: Architecture, religious significance (contains background for Tantric, Vimala as presiding deity, Shakta - referred in History), History and worship. --
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Vimala is identified with the goddesses Katyayini, Durga, Bhairavi, Bhuvaneshvari and Ekanamsha (the elder sister of Krishna, but younger than Balabhadra) at various times. -- What is meant by various
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In a departure from tradition Jagannath, a form of the god Vishnu/Krishna (Krishna is generally regarded as an avatar of Vishnu), is worshipped as the Bhairava, traditionally always a form of Shiva.
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article, and perhaps some other articles, but not in this temple article. Of course, appropriate wiki links should be provided so that interested readers can check out the whole background story.--
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Jagannath-Vishnu equated with Shiva, is interpreted to convey the oneness of God. -- except for readers well-acquainted with Hinduism, difficult to understand why this represent one-ness of god.
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She appears as Mahishasuramardini (Durga as slayer of the demon Mahishasura) or Vijayalakshmi (the warrior form of Lakshmi) in the New Delhi Konark stele -- what is "New Delhi Konark stele"?
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OK, yes my main concern was grasping the reader's attention. There's a lot of unfamiliar terms but that can't be helped for architecture. Changing order would be a very good idea I think.♦
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the clause before the comma is missing some word -- "of" or "from" or something (such as, While the central icon of Vimala is from sixth century CE). endash to be used instead of hyphen.
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The Oddiyana or Uddiyana (now clearly identified as Orissa) in the west is where lies the temple of Katyayini (identified with Vimala) and her consort Jagannath -- "in the west" of what?
1055:"Parshvadevatas (attendant deities) are placed in the central niches of the bada on three sides...". I think bada should be in italics. So should be baranda three sentences later.
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Jagannath is traditionally considered Avataree or the cause of all avatars and not an avatar. Attempts to identify him as an avatar are recent in origin and highly contreversial.
667:.It is informative with a number of references from reliable sources . Appropriate Pictures are added in text. Controversies have been resolved. I assess the article as B class
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Photograph in 1890. Not a clear view but seems to be the temple on the extreme right. Phototgraphy has since been strictly prohibited.Getting a better picture may be difficult
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Anglicized many, but not vimana, jagamohana as references (even but with short descriptions of the temple) use them. Please suggest terms left that can be anglicized. --
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I did not read rest of the article. However, unfortunately, it does not seem to meet GA criteria. Will wait a few days for any comment from the nominator. Regards.--
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as attendant deities. They have other connotations. This is in line with white papers or scholarly books. However, I will try to loose some more jargon. --
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Deula style has the four components. The sentence "Deula style with four components:" can be modified to "Deula style that has four components namely".
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Needs rephrasing as there are too many unexplained jargons. Also some sentences like "one towards the sanctum (already discussed in vimana section)".
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The avataree part is a Orissa POV. He has been equated with Krishna by many. The current wording IMO does not explicitly call him an avatar now. --
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The Pitha is limited to the small Vimala shrine. The temple complex is all shrine in the Jagannath Temple. Is it clearer in the text now? --
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The section is too detailed (are individual specifications needed for all images) and almost relies entirely on the Orissa temple magazine.
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can be called an attendant deity, but there are many associations with Parshvadevata, like they are on sanctum periphery often in the
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Charectaristics of all avatars are identified with Jagannath, not just Krishna.eg there is a very strong identification with Narasimha
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The present reading of Jagannath temple as a centre of worship of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva is fine.Non specific and non-contreversial
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Architecture mostly covered in detailed only in this source. Other sources have very short description. Want to be comprehensive. --
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will not understand why was Sati's body cut. Cut a little. I am not sure how to reduce it further without losing the information. --
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Shakti Pitha sub section, but that will dilute contents. So support retaining it in its present form. 13:52, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
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Jargon has to be retained and can not be simplified further in these cases. Similar English descriptions can be given, e.g. a
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The section explains most of jargon used. Most of it is about in which list, Vimala temple is mentioned and how. --
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If the second opinion reviewer (Ssriram) thinks that the article meets criteria 1a, no problem in promoting it.--
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Jagannath (a form of one god) is equated with Bhairava, a form of another god. How can we make it clearer? --
1393:"The Dikpalas and their consorts are seen " - it is the "The images of Dikpalas and their consorts are seen"
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1013:"It is said that Vimala was installed here, even before Jagannath in the central shrine". Where is it said?
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Also, in this regard, Vimala is also considered as Lakshmi, the consort of Vishnu --- two "also"s.
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IMO, "images of" is redundant in case of Dikpalas as figurines mentioned in earlier sentence. --
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Which sentences need to be improved? Para 1 mentions the concept of Shakti Pitha and Bhairava.--
1034:“Too” removed. But reference to exact year and by whom the practice was restarted is not known.
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Did you know ... that amorous couples and erotic scenes are depicted on the outer walls of the
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has suggested the triad are actually tribal Gods 2 brothers and sisters worshipped together
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I am tending to fail this because of poor prose, and lack of easy understanding.
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This removal does not subtract from the article and we avoid needless controversy
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Actually, we are sacrificing accuracy with the substitution. parshvadevata are
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Indeed the whole second paragraph of "Religious significance" is confusing.
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Cluster of temples south of Jagannath temple, including the Vimala temple
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Vimala. Earlier sentence "Vimala is ..." so she in next means Vimala. --
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Sounds like both users are happy with the article, so I'll close this.
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all the terms like vimana, jagamohana, bada, shikara can be anglicized.
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Other than the above-mentioned issues, the article meets GA criteria.--
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This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
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The continued comments have been addressed. Thanks for the review.--
251:-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the
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1468:"Her lower right is held in" or "Her lower right hand is held in".
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Talk:Vimala_Temple#Removal_of_sentences_in_Religious_significance
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Thanks for the comments. Will fix and reply on the weekend. --
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Mahavidyas are part of 16, that is why "including" is used. --
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Why is there no respective page on the goddess by that name?
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Trying to locate the reference. It could be removed if agreed
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Knowledge (XXG) Did you know articles that are good articles
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patha, subordinate deities or forms of the central deity. --
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I have made some minor edits to remove these contreversies
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The article has been substantially expanded and edited by
1532:"The natamandapa is a pidha deula" - what is pidha deula?
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Can an architectural image of the Deula side be added?
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Most jargon is same as vimana. Not re-explained. --
880:"New Delhi Konark stele" is the name given to the
627:Jagannath is considered the cause of all avatars
1065:varada mudra -- needs explanation or wikilink.
1785:Removal of sentences in Religious significance
1716:Thanks for the response. Images repositioned.
48:If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
623:I have removed Jagannath as Krishna because:
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962:Suggested version: (please modify as needed)
554:I noted some inaccuracies about Jagannath.
1435:I like this suggestion.A really good one.--
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902:Clarified association with directions. --
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1684:No temple map in any reference found. --
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953:Anyway, I am continuing the review.
543:sids' comment Moved from my talk: --
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1372:All the jargons are explained - OK.
493:] The anchor (#Somvanshi Dynasty)
178:It is of interest to the following
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1388:standardized: jargon (explanation)
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906:
888:
866:
842:
821:
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698:Copyvio detector
686:
665:
659:
587:
567:
547:
503:Reporting errors
495:has been deleted
471:
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133:December 4, 2012
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84:January 17, 2013
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23:
16:
1951:
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1861:
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1843:Bimala / Vimala
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748:This review is
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712:
684:
663:
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653:
585:
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545:
541:
514:
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487:
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448:High-importance
420:High-importance
403:
400:
397:
394:
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373:Hinduism portal
371:
366:
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345:High‑importance
344:
338:
268:
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234:
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169:
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137:
82:
12:
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1318:Second opinion
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708:External links
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482:case-sensitive
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390:the discussion
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313:Low-importance
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285:Low-importance
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269:India articles
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1834:Dr. ☠ Blofeld
1827:
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1809:Dr. ☠ Blofeld
1804:
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1272:Clarified. --
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1270:
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1234:
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1227:
1223:
1219:
1218:Shakti Peetha
1214:
1213:
1212:
1211:
1208:
1206:Dr. ☠ Blofeld
1196:
1193:
1187:
1183:
1182:Parshvadevata
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1135:Dr. ☠ Blofeld
1131:
1129:Dr. ☠ Blofeld
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1006:Added/changed
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1003:
1002:
1001:
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988:
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986:
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974:
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969:Hindu trinity
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621:
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531:
527:
518:
511:
504:
496:
492:
491:
490:
483:
479:
473:
466:
465:
449:
446:(assessed as
445:
444:
434:
430:
429:
425:
421:
415:
412:
411:
408:
391:
387:
383:
382:
374:
363:
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314:
311:(assessed as
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205:
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185:
181:
175:
167:
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148:
146:
145:
144:Vimala Temple
135:
134:
129:
127:
126:Did you know?
121:
117:
111:
108:
104:
103:
95:
93:
92:
88:
85:
81:
80:
76:
73:
70:
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55:
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44:
40:
36:
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34:
28:
27:Vimala Temple
25:
22:
18:
17:
1846:
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1800:
1788:
1773:
1772:
1768:
1727:
1626:
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1586:Bhogamandapa
1585:
1584:
1526:
1525:
1503:
1502:
1450:
1376:
1375:
1363:
1362:
1337:
1333:
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1325:
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1201:
1181:
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1116:
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1098:
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952:
946:
945:
931:
793:
785:
782:
771:
761:
760:
747:
736:Instructions
654:
636:
622:
608:
594:
553:
542:
523:
488:
480:Anchors are
477:
441:
419:
379:
306:
284:
254:project page
252:
242:
236:India portal
180:WikiProjects
142:
140:
131:
123:
89:
49:
47:
43:please do so
31:
30:
26:
1822:Redtigerxyz
1793:Redtigerxyz
1790:features.--
1719:Redtigerxyz
1700:Redtigerxyz
1687:Redtigerxyz
1658:Redtigerxyz
1640:Redtigerxyz
1617:Redtigerxyz
1599:Redtigerxyz
1576:Redtigerxyz
1558:Redtigerxyz
1540:Redtigerxyz
1527:Natamandapa
1517:Redtigerxyz
1494:Redtigerxyz
1476:Redtigerxyz
1456:Redtigerxyz
1419:Redtigerxyz
1401:Redtigerxyz
1305:Redtigerxyz
1275:Redtigerxyz
1248:Looks ok.--
1240:Redtigerxyz
1191:Redtigerxyz
1186:pradakshina
1151:Redtigerxyz
923:Redtigerxyz
905:Redtigerxyz
887:Redtigerxyz
865:Redtigerxyz
841:Redtigerxyz
820:Redtigerxyz
801:Redtigerxyz
750:transcluded
658:Redtigerxyz
586:Redtigerxyz
566:Redtigerxyz
546:Redtigerxyz
1865:Categories
1849:Stjohn1970
1670:Ssriram mt
1504:Jagamohana
786:Examples:
765:Dwaipayanc
703:Authorship
689:GA toolbox
539:Accuracies
130:column on
37:under the
1774:Wizardman
1750:Dwaipayan
1473:Oops...--
1437:Dwaipayan
1340:Dwaipayan
1288:Dwaipayan
1250:Dwaipayan
1222:Dwaipayan
1164:Dwaipayan
1077:Dwaipayan
973:Dwaipayan
934:Dwaipayan
762:Reviewer:
726:Templates
717:Reviewing
682:GA Review
120:Main Page
1655:Done. --
1614:Done. --
1491:Done. --
1430:sanctum"
775:contribs
731:Criteria
395:Hinduism
386:Hinduism
341:Shaktism
336:Hinduism
170:GA-class
51:reassess
1627:Overall
1416:Done.--
1267:regard?
1104:Nvvchar
664:Nvvchar
651:B Class
422:on the
287:on the
122:in the
74:Process
1731:doubt.
1383:niche)
1377:Vimana
1162:way.--
852:times?
204:Odisha
176:scale.
96:Listed
77:Result
1354:(UTC)
1048:Added
882:Stele
856:Puri?
752:from
260:India
249:India
199:India
1853:talk
1754:talk
1674:talk
1441:talk
1344:talk
1292:talk
1254:talk
1226:talk
1168:talk
1124:this
1093:Done
1081:talk
1058:Done
977:talk
938:talk
769:talk
673:talk
669:sids
661:and
642:talk
638:sids
615:talk
611:sids
601:talk
597:sids
530:talk
526:sids
478:Tip:
414:High
71:Date
1728:FYI
279:Low
1867::
1855:)
1756:)
1676:)
1443:)
1346:)
1294:)
1256:)
1228:)
1170:)
1108:.
1083:)
979:)
940:)
777:)
675:)
644:)
617:)
603:)
583:--
532:)
450:).
339::
315:).
202::
114:A
54:it
45:.
1851:(
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1672:(
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772:·
767:(
671:(
640:(
613:(
599:(
528:(
497:.
426:.
291:.
257:.
182::
147:?
136:.
128:"
124:"
56:.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
