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be true. Although in this case I doubt she is intentionally misleading us. More likely the years have blurred together after living such a long time. I just found this article from 2009 that may help debunk the 1960s claim. It states she has four living children and mentions one son that died. That would make it 3 sons and 2 daughters. The youngest child, a daughter, was 71 in 2009. That makes her year of birth 1937 or 1938. It doesn't disprove the claim outright, but it helps.
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explain this within the article are repeatedly reverted (presently it is explained in an in-line note, but not visible to readers). What can be done to stop this reversion of an explanation that is quite obviously beneficial to readers? The person who just has the most patience to keep stubbornly reverting should not be allowed to prevail.
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her 60s giving birth prior to the late 1980s is an unconfirmed report in a medical journal from the late 1800s. This would have made news at the time. The only problem I have in deleting it outright is that she is quoted giving this timeline in an article that is cited. Any thoughts on how to handle this?
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I've seen informations/claims concerning a "Mary Manuel (Mary
Perkins Patterson Manuel)" that states, that she was 97 years 11 months and 3 days old when she died on December 12th 1997, and that her mother (Susana Patterson) was still living at that time. Even though the actual age of the mother seem
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No, sic is not right here, and I have reverted it. The original source does not contain a sic and is written in
English, albeit Jamaican English. Perhaps such a spelling is not correct in your variety of English, but this page is about a Jamaican subject. "Sic" implies that the quotation contains an
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I agree with User above that mentioning interesting facts about Violet Brown can be useful. I also believe the Harold
Fairweather page should be kept, which I posted my vote on the page about whether or not deleting the Harold Fairweather page, with my reasons for keeping the page. One of the goals
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The article claims that she, and another, are the last living people born in the 19th century. Since she was born in 1900 doesn't that make it the 20th? Otherwise if it is still the 19th, the article about the previous oldest person/last living 19th century person needs to be edited (it makes a big
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This might be useful for including more information about Violet Brown and Harold
Fairweather on the Violet Brown wikipedia page. The news story mentions how Violet Brown went to the Baptist Church and some of the things she and her son Harold did in their lives. Might be interesting for readers of
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That sounds like a good way to go. I saw your tag but thought it needed to go further than that. It is kind of a strange case where we have a printed source quoting the subject in question, but I guess this would be something like when an actor or musician makes up a back story and purports it to
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Agreed, that's why I added the "dubious" tag. The, typically poor, report doesn't mention her first marriage (if there even was one) but does mention 4 children. I'd be tempted to replace that sentence with "She married
Augustus Gaynor Brown and they had one child, a daughter. She also had two sons
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2. There is NO EVIDENCE to suggest that this document is inaccurate, and there is no reason to believe that
Jamaica's record keeping has a tendency to contain errors. But even if a mistake were made, it's up to RESEARCHERS in the field of age verification to make that determination, NOT some people
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I think you got hold of the wrong end of the stick. Nobody is suggesting that
Knowledge (XXG) should "repeat false information". My edit added a note to this article to explain that the 19th century is considered to end on the 31 December 1900, to help readers understand that what appears to be an
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In the article it states that she married her husband in the 1960s and had a daughter. There is virtually no way this could be true. It would mean she gave birth in her 60s, making her just about the oldest person in history, to that point, to give birth. The only plausible report of a woman in
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It says that her date of birth is 10 March 1900, and yet she was born in the 19th century. To most readers this seems like an obvious contradiction. The idea that the 19th century ends on 31 December 1900 is a picky technicality that most people are unaware of, or wouldn't agree with. Attempts to
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Please replace "She is also the first verified supercentenarian from
Jamaica and the oldest verified Jamaican person ever." with "She is also the first verified supercentenarian in Jamaican history." If she's only verified supercentenarian in the country's history, by definition she's the oldest
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This is the first time since 1998 that two individuals confirmed as 117 or older have been alive at the same time, and only the second time ever this has occurred. Don't know if there is a reliable source that can be found on this, and if this would be noteworthy enough to add to wikipedia, but
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While the statement, "Brown was born when
Jamaica was a part of the British Empire and is the last living former subject of Queen Victoria" sounds intriguing. I would have to imagine SOMEONE was born between her (apparently in dispute?) date of birth on March 10, 1900 and Queen Victoria's very
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indicates that it is "inserted after a quoted word or passage indicates that the quoted matter has been transcribed exactly as found in the source text, complete with any erroneous or archaic spelling, surprising assertion, faulty reasoning, or other matter that might otherwise be taken as an
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Just to bring this issue up again: has it occurred to anyone that Violet and
Augustus had a child first in a common-law marriage but only made it official at a much-later date? I understand that it was not very common among many of the poor/lower classes in Jamaica to actually get an official
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whether there is any reason to consider any of them more or less reliable than the others. Until and unless full consensus is reached on that there seems to be little point in attempting to give particular weight to one of them and put one only of the possible dates in the infobox. Our
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3. The GRG is a reliable source when it comes to age verification. The date of birth listed on their website is far more likely to be correct that local news sources, which could be reporting the dates on which her birthday celebrations were held, rather than when her actual birthday
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since your changes are extremely contentious and imply that her date of birth is dubious when it has been officially verified by an international organisation that deals with longevity claims. The suggestion that GRG information is not a reliable source is in direct contradiction to
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In fact, I notice now that there are three previous discussions about exactly this matter above, just reinforcing how confusing it is to people, and how much the article would benefit from a short note along the lines of my original edit. Please see sense on this.
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the Knowledge (XXG) Page to know what these people have done during their lives and some of these highlights about them. Of course, as long as this source follows all the Knowledge (XXG) rules--I'm still learning what all the rules are on Knowledge (XXG).
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of Knowledge (XXG) is to be one of the largest encyclopedias in the world, and to include breadth and depth...so including depth about Violet Brown and Harold Fairweather on their pages is matching with the goals of Knowledge (XXG), it would seem.
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Anthony Paul is a tedious little vandal who has no place in Knowledge (XXG). I am considering requesting that a bot be created to automatically revert any edit which includes his name and for the user who made the edit to be blocked indefinitely.
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The issue you raise has already been taken care of the way we typically do here by linking to the article on the 19th century, which gives the dates. So, there is no need for a note or explanation and that is why you have been reverted.
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This page states that Violet Brown is one of the two last living people born in the 19th century, as Violet Brown was born in 1900, this is untrue. The last person alive from the 19th century was Emma Morano who died on April 15th, 2017.
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policy is quite clear on this: "Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced – whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable – should be
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Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: the sources cited. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored,
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Wasn't Nabi Tajima's eldest son "the oldest living child", as he was born in 1919? If born in 1919, he would have been older than Violet's son, and aged 98+ at the time of Nabi Tajima's death in late-April 2018.
822:. The GRG publishes their information on an annual basis in peer-reviewed journals, which are explicitly stated to be reliable sources for Knowledge (XXG) purposes. Please take heed of your own advice about
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may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original
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Nabi Tajima, claimed to be born 4 August 1900, may have been up to two years younger than claimed. If born in 1902, she would have given birth to her oldest child already at age 17, which is possible.
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People keep removing this, claiming that 1900 is not part of the 19th century and that Violet Brown wasn't born in the 19th century. Apparently it is a common belief that 1900 starts the 20th century.
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Is the use of really acceptable when it's not an error, but the transcription of a dialect? I'm tentatively changing that to italics with no "sic", as it seems off-color. Do correct me if I'm wrong.
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error or contradiction is actually intentional. This was repeatedly reverted in the face of common sense. This edit should be reinstated. It only takes a few words in brackets to dispel the doubt.
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To prove the case you would need proof of his birth date and death date. As things stand you don't even have his name. I am therefore very skeptical. Why do you think he was alive when she died?
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Whilst this is true, she still holds both titles. It is possible that another Jamaican will live to be older, claiming that title, yet she will retain being the first super-centenarian. —
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I would like to remove the entire sentence, "Brown was born when Jamaica was a part of the British Empire and is the last living former subject of Queen Victoria" in the top paragraph.
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government document (a marriage license) until social safety net programs in the 1960s encouraged people to register. Maybe we should reconsider adding this bit of information back in.
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It's not a "picky technicality", it's a fact. It may also be a common misconception, but Knowledge (XXG) should not repeat false information just because a lot of people believe it.
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It is claimed that Violet Brown's eldest son Harold, who died on 19 April 2017 at age 97 years and 4 days, was the oldest person with a living parent - but is this really correct?
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Whether these dates and informations are absolute credible, I don't know, but I think the safest thing to do would be to wait with a statement concerning Harold Fairweather like "
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text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of
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1. First of all, Violet Brown's birth certificate has been located by GRG researchers. I can send you a link to it on Family Search if you want.
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As it stands even the birth date of Nabi Tajima herself is disputed. There are claims that she was at least one year younger than indicated.
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from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you.
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whether in a case like this it is better to give equal weight to the various sources, or simply to remove the date of birth altogether.
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and two daughter from a previous relationship." If anyone complains about removing "important" information we can always take it to
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This news story from the Jamaican Observer gives a lot of information on Violet Brown and Harold Fairweather. News Story: <
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and related articles on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
955:. The Fairweather article will be deleted shortly so further discussion on anything relating to that article is pointless.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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She is the real world's oldest living person, although under the world's oldest living person titleholders says it's
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As there is no citation claiming Fairweather is the oldest ever, it should never have been included as it fails both
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It got reverted back to DMY format, but I want ISO for this article, so I reverted it back to ISO date format.
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is the world's oldest living person who was born on July 6, 1999 who is currently the age 25Â years, 81Â days.
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However, I have no data to back that up. then again, the citation for the claim is no longer a valid url.
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I made it into a hidden note on the 24th and I don't think there's been any change since then, has there?
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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that support the change you want to be made. Since no sources can be found, the change cannot be made.
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No, the page has been protected until 1 October. What is the "misleading" info you wish to change?
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from that source. Therefore such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our
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This sort of fanfluff is specifically excluded from longevity-related biographies as specified
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P.S.: Is it reported that Nabi Tajima's eldest son has celebrated his 100th birthday in 2019?
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the
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News Story with Potentially Useful Information on Violet Brown and her son Harold Fairweather
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Different sources give different dates of birth for this person. I have asked at the
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http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/columns/Violet-Mosse-Brown---116-amazing-years-_61711
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http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/westernnews/147802_Violet-Moss-Brown----109--not-out
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it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see
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First Time Two Individuals Confirmed 117 or older alive at same time since 1998
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to be disputed, then the interesting thing is, that she outlived her daughter.
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I see no reason why we need to include a mention of multiple birthdays. --
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1800-1899. The clarification has now been added to this article.
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deal about how she was the last living person born in the 19th)
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verified death on January 22, 1901 that still remains alive.
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Can i please edit the page, some of the info is misleading
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A fact from this article was featured on Knowledge (XXG)'s
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Does anyone know if Brown's children also had children? --
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Fanfluff trivia. Without a citation it can't be included.
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In fact ironically, it is your edits that in violation of
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if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or
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are the reason people hate editing Knowledge (XXG). —
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Edit request was declined as it would be vandalizing.
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removed immediately and without waiting for discussion
400:. If you are new to editing Knowledge (XXG) visit the
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1689:Semi-protected edit request on 16 September 2017
1978:Knowledge (XXG) requested photographs of people
1676:I have replaced the dead link. Problem solved.
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1415:I am One of Many
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1207:I am One of Many
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230:to this article.
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165:Biography portal
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1938:212.100.101.104
1906:212.100.101.104
1895:
1883:
1878:
1836:
1819:
1773:
1759:edits like this
1755:
1743:DerbyCountyinNZ
1742:
1712:
1708:
1697:
1691:
1679:DerbyCountyinNZ
1678:
1664:(Jalen D. Folf)
1663:
1655:please provide
1648:
1612:
1608:
1597:
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1572:
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1552:DerbyCountyinNZ
1551:
1530:please provide
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1024:DerbyCountyinNZ
1023:
988:
979:FranklinManaway
969:FranklinManaway
958:DerbyCountyinNZ
957:
921:
870:DerbyCountyinNZ
869:
844:
824:blocking policy
736:
668:
646:
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640:
637:
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560:
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552:Women's History
551:
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543:Women's history
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499:Women's History
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46:Knowledge (XXG)
12:
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5:
2071:
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664:
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633:the discussion
619:
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589:
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577:Mid-importance
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530:History portal
517:
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502:Mid‑importance
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432:Low-importance
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349:Low‑importance
337:
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79:March 10, 2020
65:
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1753:Reverted edit
1752:
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1618:
1615:parameter to
1606:
1602:
1595:
1594:
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1569:
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1537:
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1405:
1401:
1400:86.191.155.18
1396:
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1390:
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1385:86.191.155.18
1381:
1380:
1379:
1375:
1371:
1367:
1366:
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1341:86.191.155.18
1333:
1329:
1325:
1323:
1317:
1315:
1308:
1299:
1298:
1297:
1296:
1292:
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1280:
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1266:parameter to
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1216:
1212:
1208:
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1199:
1198:
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1188:198.30.250.20
1178:
1175:parameter to
1166:
1162:
1155:
1154:
1148:
1146:
1144:
1132:
1129:
1123:
1119:
1118:
1117:
1116:
1112:
1108:
1107:123.3.149.247
1097:
1094:parameter to
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1081:
1074:
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828:SiameseTurtle
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531:
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494:
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477:
474:(assessed as
473:
472:
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427:
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279:oldest people
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1896:
1879:
1874:
1857:
1845:
1844:
1820:
1806:
1803:
1799:
1798:
1795:
1777:— Preceding
1774:
1756:
1724:
1716:
1705:edit request
1652:
1631:
1628:
1624:
1616:
1605:edit request
1573:
1570:Descendance?
1562:
1527:
1505:Anthony Paul
1502:
1494:
1483:edit request
1461:
1337:
1321:
1313:
1306:
1287:208.95.51.38
1279:208.95.51.38
1275:
1267:
1256:edit request
1224:
1221:19th century
1203:19th century
1184:
1176:
1165:edit request
1142:
1135:
1121:
1103:
1095:
1084:edit request
1051:JasonPhelps
1037:
995:
993:
989:
931:— Preceding
922:
845:
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737:
712:
701:
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622:
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431:
402:welcome page
394:project page
383:
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111:WikiProjects
72:
53:
32:
31:
1839:27.81.83.15
1823:27.81.83.15
1727:76.9.53.147
1041:JasonPhelps
901:Ollie231213
799:Ollie231213
693:information
689:copyrighted
101:Start-class
77:section on
74:On this day
34:In the news
1957:Categories
1709:|answered=
1609:|answered=
1487:|answered=
1260:|answered=
1169:|answered=
1088:|answered=
705:plagiarize
398:discussion
224:photograph
1653:Not done:
1528:Not done:
937:67.2.3.26
407:Caribbean
390:Caribbean
340:Caribbean
288:Longevity
251:Longevity
191:Biography
130:Biography
69:Main Page
28:Main Page
1924:Weburbia
1862:Peaceray
1779:unsigned
1536:Cannolis
1370:Jdcooper
1356:Rothorpe
1307:Not done
1143:Not done
933:unsigned
886:Mantisia
865:WP:BLP/N
849:Mantisia
758:WP:BLP/N
697:fair use
1661:jd22292
1444:jd22292
1322:Discuss
717:blocked
579:on the
434:on the
345:Jamaica
315:on the
71:in the
30:in the
1019:WP:BLP
815:WP:BLP
673:unless
107:scale.
1817:"sic"
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820:WP:RS
638:Women
629:women
604:Women
228:added
220:image
1942:talk
1928:talk
1910:talk
1866:talk
1827:talk
1787:talk
1763:Hugh
1731:talk
1668:talk
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1404:talk
1389:talk
1374:talk
1360:talk
1345:talk
1291:talk
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1231:talk
1211:talk
1201:See
1192:talk
1111:talk
1045:talk
1017:and
1004:talk
973:talk
953:here
941:talk
905:talk
890:talk
853:talk
832:talk
803:talk
792:was.
766:talk
725:talk
713:will
180:and
1880:agt
1858:Sic
1847:sic
1711:or
1611:or
1489:or
1262:or
1171:or
1122:NOT
1090:or
715:be
571:Mid
426:Low
307:Mid
226:be
222:or
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1930:)
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188:.
113::
81:.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
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