Talk:Virginia Tech shooting/Archive 1

31: 1306:", which is correct, but in later paragraphs there is mention of the 1999 Columbine shootings and the 1927 Bath disaster, and it can become confusing and conflicting to note that this 2007 incident is the deadliest "shooting" at the intro, but later state it is second to the 1927 disaster as the deadliest "school incident". I think we should remove the second reference. — 769:", which is correct, but in later paragraphs there is mention of the 1999 Columbine shootings and the 1927 Bath disaster, and it can become confusing and conflicting to note that this 2007 incident is the deadliest "shooting" at the intro, but later state it is second to the 1927 disaster as the deadliest "school incident". I think we should remove the second reference. — 1460:

Whatever happens, when the numbers change, change the sources. Otherwise, the change will probably be reverted. If you change the numbers, it is your responsibiliuty to provide a reliable source demonstrating the change. I ran into this problem at the va tech article too. The numbers kept increasing,

1050:

That's from Northern Virginia, we're in Southwestern Virginia here in Blacksburg. Classes were not cancelled otherwise the classrooms wouldn't have been shot up. The weather is bad here, but the wind is nothing to cancel class over. In fact, the last time Tech had cancelled classes it was over the

623:

Here are two images of the Asian student being arrested (sadly, taken from FOX news). Does anyone have a source indicating why he is being detained? I hope that they are not out arresting every Asian kid on campus, as bad as this situation is, I would hate to see a backlash against Asian students,

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I saw some photos of someone who looked like they were Asian being arrested. As it appears the shooter is dead, this was probably not the shooter and therefore may be a source of confusion. As such, it'll probably be best to leave it out until there is a better source. Remember this is wikipedia not

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A massive influx of edits is ongoing, yes, if that's what you mean. This happened with the mall shootings, this lasted for *days* with the London bombings. It's pretty much unavoidable - established editors are getting drawn in in great number, not just new ones, and blocking the page entirely would

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Dear God... 60 shot!? Even assuming the gunmen was an AMAZING shot, he still must have fired well over 60 rounds, probably closer to 70-80. This is unbelievably awful! I am in total shock as to how someone can get off that many rounds without police intervention! I am so sad now. I hope your friend

470:

The article claims that the shooter was reported by Fox News to be Asian-American. In the actual Fox News article, the student is only described as "Asian". If the student is Asian and is only in the US on a student visa, then he is not "Asian-American". This description should be edited until the

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BBC World now reports that there was one gunman, and there were two separate attacks, the second in a classroom a couple of hours after the other. Please verify that there was only one gunman when a reliable source emerges from the current news chaos. Also, Jesus Christ.

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I don't have an opinion on this, but it is extremely disruptive to move a main page featured article without consensus. I've protected this page. If you do wish to move the article to another name, I'd suggest gathering some sort of consensus here first.

1006:

CNN made fleeting mention of weather, but they said that all schools were on lockdown, and that the University is closed today. They said it would be open tomorrow, but that there would be no classes. And that's the extent of their details.

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What he said - though they probably wouldn't do that, they wouldn't get away with that. (Incidentally, a survivor just described the situation on BBC World as "absolute suck." Despite everything, I couldn't help but laugh.)

532:

is ridiculous. There is a source right there. It's in the article. It is attributable. To remove it on some other basis is absurd. However, if you want to remove it on the basis of non-notability, that's a different story.

1316:

Yes, I noticed this an changed the top part at least twice after it was removed or modified by editors who thought the Bath School disaster was a shooting. I put a hidden comment to try and avoid this repeating

798:

I'm not sure what news reports you're listening to, but most I've heard have said it's the deadliest school/campus shooting in U.S. history which is correct. As discussed above, Bath was not a shooting

736:

I heard the 9mm Handgun on the CNN news broadcast and I think Fox News is reporting it too. Also a first person report seems to confirm the use of a handgun. Can anyone get a print report of it?

418:(thrice conflicted) "Columbine Massacre" is an established expression. Since no such things exists for this event at the moment, shooting seems like a workable name. Check back in a few days. -- 128:

Kevin was actually in the back of the ambulance with the shooter who was already dead, a 20 year old student who lived in AJ, shot and killed 2 people before the shooting occurred in Norris.

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As most of you know, Kevin his an EMT in Christiansburg/Blacksburg. Brian just called to say that 31 have been confirmed dead in todays shooting - the news is still reporting 21.

529:

Fox News is still a reliable source though. And what would identifying someone's race have to do anything with politics?!?! You are confusing two issues. The edit to remove this

405:

perhaps this page should be called the Virginia Tech Massacre, instead of the 2007 Virginia Tech Schooting, to be consistent with the format of the Columbine Massacre article.

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The photo of the Asian student being cuffed is being reported by Fox News as a reporter for the School newspaper who was 'questioning too vigoriously'.

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CNN is obviously behind. ITS 32 dead I dont' see why this is even an issue. Its amazing how big some of your ego's can be insuch a tragic situation.

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There were over 60 people shot and inured or killed. The news is only reporting 21 but they found another classroom with 9 people dead inside.

1375:

Fox says there are at least 32 shot. Unless we can have a better source that FOX, I'm sticking with 21, that's what CNN, ABC et al. are saying.

1417:

As long as we have conflicting reports on the number, I think we should go with "at least (the lowest number reported by a reliable source)."

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Well, that's a much better reason than simply because it was from Fox News, or "not sourced" (which it was... attributable, not truthified). --

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Also cited in MSNBC, he aparently lined them up in the hallway in Norris, asked about his girlfriend, if they didn't know, he executed them

978:

The school closings are due to high winds that are a danger to classes held in trailers. Nothing to do with the shootings in Blacksburg.

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Not sure how to upload pics-- embed image? Formatting/image placement? I'd rather not mess up the article. Links to a couple of images:

1343:

Somone needs to fix the references. The Latest one is mislabeled and states that there are 29 dead when the article says there are 32.

1065:

Virginia Tech is definitely not closed because of the weather, but the primary schools in Montgomery County are closed due to weather.

409:

Generally we go for the most common name. As this is a recent event, it's best to go with shooting until a common name is established.

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Thanks for the information, but we would need a link to a reliable news source attesting that to confirm. Can you provide one? --

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I've seen the word "rampage" on both CNN.com and MSNBC.com. Agree should wait and discuss User:elg26 17:51, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

1106:

Might be. I think we need a bit more data, since they panicked they could've been below (or, Heaven help, above) the events. --

634: 631: 933:: could someone please move the talk page to match the article? With all of the moves, they are now out of sync. Thanks. -- 198:

be hugely counterproductive - and might even be benefical, as Knowledge's reaction time rivals the fastest news outlets. --

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I have CNN screen captures. Does it violate copyright laws to post them, or is it PD? Or does anyone care at the moment?

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You may be right. It's integral information, but putting them there is perhaps permature. They're now at the bottom. --

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Yes, also, discussed above... Moved back until consensus (either here at WP, or in the media) is reached on a name. --

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The news say that the VT one is the deadliest. I'm pretty sure they forgot about Bath, or have no idea what it is.--

1500:

I appear to have accidently reverted some edits due to an edit conflict I somehow missed. Apologies to all editors.

1372:

But as long as ABC News is refered to, the labeling of footnote #2 should be corrected from "CNN" to "ABC News". --

1353:

Fox News reported 32 dead a few minutes ago. I don't know if there's an internet source to confirm that though. --

121:

a friend says this (at VA tech, i know it's not going to be posted to the wiki but figured you guys want to know :

38: 1158: 1154: 859: 244:- University of Texas at Austin in 1966, 15 fatalites. Charles Whitman was shooter from campus Bell Tower. 105: 1205:. We don't need a journalist to say "Massacre" to use the term, this is an encyclopedia, based on facts. 696:

The shooting was the deadliest college campus shooting in U.S. history, not the deadliest school shooting.

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That's 42 items there. Compare with the other term, and there are 2,000. But this may change of course. --

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Yes. The numbers are widely reported on news websites, and the BBC World TV broadcast agrees with you. --

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It always does in these situations, it's removed in seconds. How serious is the problem at the moment? --

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I think we should ask for a reference for the closures first. Preferably one that links the two events

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Thank you so much, it is amazing to watch PC Magazine advertisements appear after 22 people are dead.

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These things draw vandalism like flies. They also draw fly-swatters, if the analogy can take that. --

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It appears to have been fixed. Let me know if you need me to wade through and kill some redirects.

650:

MSNBC reported the shooter as an Asian American, college aged, wearing a maroon hat and black coat.

550:

Agreed. However, I'd keep it out for now based on the quote saying "According to one person..." --

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This is the worst school shooting in US history; therefore, it qualifies based on the facts as a

1039:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/16/AR2007041600351.html?hpid=topnews

1008: 917: 887: 847: 665: 551: 381: 333: 262: 1230:"A school massacre is an incident of violence at a school involving at least one actual death."' 1514: 1504: 1490: 1478: 1465: 1454: 1445: 1421: 1412: 1382: 1367: 1357: 1347: 1330: 1321: 1310: 1276: 1266: 1252: 1235: 1219: 1209: 1195: 1165: 1139: 1119: 1110: 1083: 1069: 1060: 1044: 1011: 1001: 992: 982: 964: 950: 920: 903: 890: 873: 864: 841: 818: 803: 792: 782: 773: 740: 720: 711: 700: 686: 677: 668: 654: 628: 618: 520: 509: 485: 475: 459: 440: 422: 413: 384: 346: 336: 319: 309: 299: 285: 275: 265: 256: 231: 221: 212: 202: 191: 176: 166: 157: 141: 109: 1307: 1232: 1206: 1162: 814:

Are we not pre-empting the media by declaring this a "massacre" before it has been done so? --

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Don't worry about it - stuff like that happens in the initial chaos, no lasting harm done. --

1391:

No reference to the 32 number on an article page, but it's listed on the main fox news site:

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If nobody objects, I'm going to go ahead and semi-protect this article for the time being. --

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Someone needs to do something to this. It's been vandalized twice in, like, five minutes. --

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Oh okay thank you for clearing it up! I don't really have any ties with primary schools.--

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http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/photoessay_1642_images/0416071259_M_041607_shooting3.jpg

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http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/photoessay_1642_images/0416071259_M_041607_shooting1.jpg

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before effecting them. I think there's a specific move-block if this keeps happening. --

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There's no established definition, is there? What is called a massacre is a massacre. --

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I agree. Just pointing out that it is making its way into headlines - that's all... --

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I believe there were 12 casualties in Columbine, and in this one there is 20-22.

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This page needs to be semi-protected, as spam is making its way into the article.

1273: 1248:... and I don't have time at the moment to sort them out. Could someone fix? -- 1099: 491:

Only one source says the gunman is asian.. and of all sources Fox News. Hmph...

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

248:- Virginia Tech shooting is therefore deadliest campus shooting in US history. 1511: 1428: 1395: 1327: 1263: 1249: 1107: 989: 935: 838: 717: 708: 517: 482: 456: 437: 419: 343: 272: 228: 199: 173: 154: 342:

I think it's fair use, but I for one don't really care right now. Be bold. --

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According to witness, shooting was on fourth floor of AJ (ambler johnson).

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wikinews. We don't 'report' every single rumour that appears in the media

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Fox is known to be rightwing and biased. And I'm not even from the US. --

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We need this edit-blocked ASAP. I see way too many conflicting reports.

846:

I agree. However, we need an admin to move the talk page back as well.

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Something to the effect of "at least 21, with reports as high as 32"?

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Another administrator beat me to it. Pagmoves have been locked now. --

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Morva shootings. They haven't cancelled for weather in some time.--

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by either the police, the administration or the student community.

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Word. We should stick strictly to the sources. Editing, if I can. --

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is wrong, I hope 21 is right, because that's bad enough! So sad! --

673:

Good point, and I don't remember hearing it when watching Fox News.

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Fox News cited federal sources demonstrating that 32 were killed.

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I don't think these specifics should be part of the entry's lede.

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What does the source being Fox News have to do with anything? --

1215:

You might want to read up on wikipedia policy on namings first

1102:

Might be relevant in relation to those jumping from a window.

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Naw see a shooting is like three-four people tops this is a

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That was what I wrote. I'll check if it has been skewed. --

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http://en.wikipedia.org/Image:CNNvtechshootPicture_002.jpg

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http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/4268/picture004ho3.jpg

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Hey Probaly we should call this the Blacksburg Massacre--

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An additional reference in case it's needed for updates

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Nope, 13 at Columbine, not including the two shooters.

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in US history, but is not the deadliest school-related

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in US history, but is not the deadliest school-related

530: 1302:. In the first paragraph I have added that it is the " 765:. In the first paragraph I have added that it is the " 366:

http://en.wikipedia.org/Image:Picture004ho3.jpg#file

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22 capitalists in first line...wats that all about?

1115:And I don't think it was in AJ that they jumped... 1028:

From The Washington Post, on ther weather closings:

1461:but the source still pointed to cnn saying 22. 1326:Thank you, Nil. It will probably settle now. -- 778:Now I see what you mean. Sorry for the mix-up. 394:Campus Maps are available in PDF format here: 1100:http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3045605 8: 1287:This event is the deadliest school-related 750:This event is the deadliest school-related 356:Uploaded to Knowledge but not in Article 1486:msnbc just announced 31 dead confirmed 246:- Fewer casualties than Bath shooting 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 375:I release this to be used by anyone: 7: 447:Comparisons to Columbine, Bath, etc. 396:http://www.vt.edu/where_we_are/maps/ 882:I have no preference for name, but 664:I don't see this in the source. -- 24: 1224:Read the Knowledge definition of 1304:deadliest shooting is US history 767:deadliest shooting is US history 29: 1153:so the article title should be 974:School closings weather related 1244:Talk page redirects are a mess 1172: 242:- Columbine was 13 casualties 238:More casualties than columbine 117:uncorroborated amateur reports 1: 1463:-- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 1262:Where is attributed from ? 1159:2007 Virginia Tech Shooting 1155:2007 Virginia Tech Massacre 18:Talk:Virginia Tech shooting 1531: 1515:17:56, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1505:17:49, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1491:18:28, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1479:18:15, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1466:18:00, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1455:18:00, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1446:17:58, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1422:17:56, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1413:17:56, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1383:17:56, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1368:17:51, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1358:17:48, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1348:17:45, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1331:18:07, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1322:17:51, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1311:17:27, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1283:1927 Bath disaster dispute 1277:17:44, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1272:ABC news had it I think -- 1267:17:40, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1253:17:42, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1236:18:09, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1220:17:58, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1210:17:54, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1196:17:40, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1180:17:39, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1166:17:37, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1140:17:33, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1120:17:55, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1111:17:44, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1084:18:27, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1070:18:20, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1061:18:06, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1045:17:45, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1012:17:44, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 1002:17:39, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 993:17:37, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 983:17:31, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 965:17:46, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 951:17:41, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 921:17:45, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 904:17:39, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 891:17:38, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 874:17:38, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 865:17:37, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 842:17:36, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 829:17:34, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 819:17:29, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 804:18:03, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 793:17:45, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 783:17:36, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 774:17:28, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 746:1927 Bath disaster dispute 741:17:24, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 721:17:20, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 712:17:19, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 701:17:18, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 687:17:57, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 678:17:21, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 669:17:17, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 655:17:56, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 629:18:22, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 619:18:07, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 590:17:55, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 564:17:52, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 555:17:31, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 538:17:22, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 521:17:19, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 510:17:17, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 500:17:15, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 486:17:07, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 476:17:06, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 460:17:11, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 441:18:27, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 423:17:06, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 414:17:05, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 385:17:34, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 347:17:06, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 337:17:16, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 320:16:58, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 310:16:56, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 300:16:54, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 286:17:49, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 276:16:49, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 266:18:13, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 257:16:45, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 232:16:48, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 222:16:43, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 213:16:42, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 203:16:47, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 192:16:41, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 177:16:53, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 167:16:45, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 158:16:44, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 142:18:26, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 110:18:27, 16 April 2007 (UTC) 835:Please discuss page moves 716:It had. Fixed. Thanks. -- 92:EDT is UTC-4, not UTC-5 1393:http://www.foxnews.com/ 371:Uploaded to Image shack 1171:Please discuss above: 471:shooter is identified. 466:Asian-American student 133: 1145:Massacre not shooting 123: 100:comment was added by 42:of past discussions. 1300:Bath School disaster 833:Moved back as well. 763:Bath School disaster 183:Conflicting reports 1450:Sounds good to me. 884:Google news search 1080: 1057: 948: 113: 85: 84: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 1522: 1443: 1442: 1441: 1439: 1437: 1410: 1409: 1408: 1406: 1404: 1295:, which was the 1193: 1081: 1078: 1058: 1055: 962: 940: 862: 857: 850: 758:, which was the 692:Minor correction 95: 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 1530: 1529: 1525: 1524: 1523: 1521: 1520: 1519: 1498: 1435: 1433: 1431: 1430: 1429: 1402: 1400: 1398: 1397: 1396: 1341: 1285: 1260: 1246: 1226:school massacre 1203:school massacre 1189: 1151:school massacre 1147: 1130: 1096: 1076: 1053: 976: 958: 946: 860: 853: 848: 812: 748: 734: 694: 662: 660:Execution style 468: 449: 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636: 633: 630: 627: 622: 620: 617: 613: 612: 611: 610: 609: 608: 607: 606: 605: 604: 603: 602: 591: 588: 583: 582: 581: 580: 579: 578: 577: 576: 575: 574: 565: 562: 558: 557: 556: 553: 549: 548: 547: 546: 545: 544: 539: 536: 531: 528: 527: 526: 525: 522: 519: 514: 513: 512: 511: 508: 501: 498: 494: 493: 492: 487: 484: 480: 479: 478: 477: 474: 465: 461: 458: 454: 453: 452: 446: 442: 439: 435: 434: 433: 431: 424: 421: 417: 415: 412: 408: 407: 406: 400: 398: 397: 389: 387: 386: 383: 382:PublicSecrecy 380: 376: 370: 368: 367: 363: 362: 355: 353: 348: 345: 341: 340: 339: 338: 335: 334:PublicSecrecy 328:CNN Screenies 327: 325: 322: 321: 318: 311: 308: 304: 303: 302: 301: 298: 290: 288: 287: 284: 277: 274: 270: 269: 268: 267: 264: 259: 258: 255: 249: 237: 233: 230: 226: 225: 224: 223: 220: 215: 214: 211: 204: 201: 196: 195: 194: 193: 190: 182: 178: 175: 171: 170: 169: 168: 165: 160: 159: 156: 147: 143: 140: 135: 134: 132: 129: 126: 122: 116: 114: 111: 107: 103: 99: 93: 87: 81: 78: 75: 73: 70: 68: 65: 62: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 1499: 1485: 1449: 1425: 1416: 1389: 1386: 1374: 1371: 1362: 1342: 1308:John Stattic 1303: 1292: 1288: 1286: 1261: 1247: 1233:EnviroGranny 1229: 1207:EnviroGranny 1200: 1190: 1163:EnviroGranny 1148: 1131: 1097: 1037: 977: 969: 959: 939: 934: 930: 929: 854: 834: 813: 790:71.246.252.5 787: 777: 771:John Stattic 766: 755: 751: 749: 735: 727: 695: 681: 672: 663: 649: 504: 490: 469: 450: 429: 427: 404: 401:Title change 393: 377: 374: 364: 359: 351: 331: 323: 314: 294: 280: 260: 250: 241: 219:SouthEastLad 216: 210:SouthEastLad 207: 186: 161: 151: 130: 127: 124: 120: 102:12.31.41.254 94: 91: 60: 43: 37: 1452:Chunky Rice 1419:Chunky Rice 1264:User:elg26 901:HappyCamper 871:HappyCamper 816:HappyCamper 785:RyzinEnagy 732:9mm Handgun 703:RyzinEnagy 473:64.35.225.1 390:Campus Maps 36:This is an 1365:Stanley011 1258:29 killed? 1191:alphachimp 1173:#Page move 1149:This is a 960:alphachimp 780:RyzinEnagy 738:Verdafolio 698:RyzinEnagy 675:Verdafolio 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