411:, which is geographically located in the Central American istmus (and would cause a reader to associate it with that region), from the Central American Template. I believe that you have neglected it because culturally and economically speaking it is (by Costa Rican standards) considered a Caribbean nation and more a part of the Caribbean than of central america. The problem is that making that sort of distinction (geographical from cultural/economic/social) is not easy, heck I know of people that consider everything south of the united states Mexico. Furthermore, here in the United Stated (not sure of other places) it is accepted that North and South America are two seperate Continents and that Central America is a region located within North America. I will therefore revert your edit to this template and and replace it in the article of the countries from which you have removed it. I think that have both the Central and North American Templates in the pages serves to make readers understand that as a whole a country like Honduras is located in North America but also more specifically in Central America. --
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included in a greater definition of North
America, rather than South America. However, it does seem odd to say that Venezuela, for example, is in North America just because it has islands in the Caribbean, as opposed to Colombia, which is definitely in North America due to its islands off the coast of Central America. --
1463:, and that T&T is even closer to the mainland than those, most sources treat them as part of North America, despite the fact I've never seen the Federal Dependencies even mentioned with relation to North America. I'd actually like to see a selection of sources treating the ABC islands as South American.
1065:
I added France to the list of countries, but it reminded me of another issue: Colombia has some islands off the coast of
Nicaragua. That plants it as a Caribbean (and therefore, in the definition of this template, North American) nation. We aren't just talking nearby associated islands like Venezuela
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North
America, third largest of the seven continents, including Canada (the 2nd largest country in area in the world), the United States (3rd largest), and Mexico (14th largest). The continent also includes Greenland, the largest island, as well as the small French overseas department of Saint-Pierre
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Shouldn't it technically be
Netherlands? I mean the Constituent countries of England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland are not considered dependencies, and in the Europe template, they are not considered dependencies to the United Kingdom, while although the Netherlands shares the same name as
1395:
The creation was political, yes, but modern western scholarship has very defined boundaries, some of them manmade. The Darien Gap, the Suez Canal, the
African plate, the Urals, the Caucasus, and, er, 'everything east of Indonesia' seem to be the primary delimiters. There are some who question these,
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Bajo Nuevo Bank and
Serranilla Bank were previously listed as being grouped with the United States Minor Outlying Islands. Whatever U.S. government sources lists them as so (according to the USMOI article, there's only one--and the link is broken), is irrelevant until you can establish that the U.S.
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The term "constituent countries" is meaningless, as the status of the various constituent countries are different in different overall countries, and different even within countries. The situation in the
Netherlands is different to that of Denmark, the Netherlands units form equal parts of a union,
1497:
I said the sources showed the islands were "politically not in South
America", which includes the Caribbean. At any rate, the UN sources does place them in North America, see note b/ "The continent of North America (003) comprises Northern America (021), Caribbean (029), and Central America (013)."
1343:
I'm not sure where the notion that 'politics trumps geography' came from, anyway. We mention Spain as an
African country, Chile as an Oceanian country, and France as being all over the damn place. So, CMD, can you justify this assertion please? As for the geography, the Caribbean seems to always be
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An effort was made to remove countries in the central american region from the template and instead place them in a
Central American Template. I have replaced them on the basis that they are still considered part of the North American Continent despite also being labeled as existing in the central
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As for western scholarship, yes, there are some very clearly defined boundaries (although I wouldn't immediately include the Darien Gap among those, in my experience a significant minority use the Panama Canal), however, many are not to clearly defined. This is one of those situations. Despite it
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The very creation of continents was political. It was how the Greeks in the Aegean peninsula separated themselves from those in Anatolia. It was propagated by Europeans who arbitrarily split themselves from Asia, even as it became obvious the Aegean and Black Seas were not a good divide. Although
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is also part of North America, so i suppose they could be included as well. I dont think there are any other countries that could be included. The only other polities that are missing are Serranilla Bank and Bajo Nuevo bank, the only other territories of a similar status in existance would be the
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We can arrive at a clear delineation, for example by chosing plate tectonics to be indicative of the location of a continental divide. I'm not saying that continents do not have cultural and political meanings, merely that these are vague at best and politically charged at worst. That said, I'll
1146:
Iceland in Africa? (JK) Actually, 99% of sources (maybe 100...I haven't seen one doing otherwise) list Iceland in Europe if grouped with a continent.....not in N. America. Yes, makes sense "geologically"...you perhaps should start (it may exist?) a countries by geological groupings. Or by
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While I support the general notion that Central America is (geographically) part of North America, both templates should be used; can't we all just get along? ;) However, it is important to not include a plethora of templates and keep things succinct: ideally, use templates with nomenclature
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I'm not seeing any statement to that effect in that article... and by that logic, Trinidad and Tobago and much of the West Indies are South American, and Bali and Sulawesi are closer to Australia than to mainland Asia yet, unlike Timor and New Guinea, are considered pretty universally Asian.
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However often representatives from Alaska and Hawaii have sat with the United States Congress during scheduled sessions, and although they may be perpetually permitted to do so, both territories in reality share status with the United States within the multi-national Congress of Industrial
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North America is comprised of two nations -- the United States and Canada. Most public school history textbooks provide maps which are confusing and which claim that the Canadian province of Alaska and the Polynesian state of Hawaii are two of 50 of the United States of America.
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american region. I will also include both templates in the pages of the central american countries since I have seen that on the pages of other countries (middle eastern), efforts are made to include templates of all the geographical regions said countries are considered part of.
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whereas Greenland forms a minor region of the Greater Danish state (2/179 seats in Parliament). Greenland is similar to the French collectivities. You're probably right that Greenland and the Dutch territories should move up, but if they do so should the French territories.
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is short and easy to use. Someone interested in the region can easily hop to another country. The NA navigator is packed with too much and adds clutter to the page rather than being helpful. Neither would a "Countries of the World" template be helpful.
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Technically, they are on the North American continent and culturally and geographically they are located in the Central American region. So why not just destinguish the difference between the continent and the region. Else it should go on both.
873:
Rewrote to use navbox generic and to have a more general note at the header. That last point might warrant some thought. Is it better worded now, or should we drop the text back in that refers to italics, and re-italicize those nations?
402:. Algunos geógrafos consideran a América Central como un istmo grande en el que a veces incluyen la parte de México al este del Istmo de Tehuantepec, a saber, los estados mexicanos del Chiapas, Tabasco, Campeche, Yucatán y Quintana Roo.'
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politics) going back millennia, with the geological definition you claim going back just decades (acceptance of plate tectonics). It's not 100% political (Israel, Bermuda in Europe?) but that's certainly part of it along with
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Articles in Knowledge (XXG) should refer to facts, assertions, theories, ideas, claims, opinions, and arguments that have been published by a reputable or credible publisher. The threshold for inclusion is verifiability, not
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I have never seen any other source, of any kind, group Iceland as a North American territory. Frankly, I think including Iceland in this template contributes to the notion held by some that Knowledge (XXG) is not a reliable
436:
North America is everything from Canada southwards up to and including Panama. All these should be on the template. Central America is a subset of North America, consisting of all North American countries south of Mexico.
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I think that in groupping nations your opinion on the matter reflects a more social and cultural point of view than that a regular English reader of Knowledge (XXG) would possess. As an example I point to your exclusion of
1373:
there is a generally accepted idea of seven continents in most English countries, the borders are fuzzy. I have no idea why Trinidad and Tobago etc. are politically not in South America. The point is, they often are. eg.
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Whether we let ourselves be guided by considerations of politics or geography is entirely our decision. Geography allows for a mostly clear delineation of the continents whereas the question whether any one country is
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Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras and Nicaragua are part of North America.This is in terms of *geography*. North america is a contininent. Central america is considered a part of that continent. See
1380:
There have been edit wars over these continental inclusions/exclusions. Without really good sourcing noting that the islands are in South America, and are not in North America, I don't think removal is viable.
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Some people believe that countries are in this area are in North America, other believe they are in Central america. If both templates are on the page shouldn't everyone be happy? Another thing to note is from
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Since it has different meanings, Denmark, and especially France are different, but the UK is the same, as four different "units", if you will, have equal levels of power within each corresponding government.—
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The 7-continent model is usually taught in Western Europe, the United States and Canada, Australia, and much of Asia. The 6-continent combined-America model is taught in Japan, Iran, and Latin America.
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I retract what I said before, because it appears Trinidad in fact straddles the tectonic divide, and Tobago and the ABC islands are on the Caribbean plate (as is part of mainland Venezuela, see
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is the continent, and it is divided in North, Central and South America. Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras and Nicaragua form Central America. Trust me, I live in Costa Rica.
497:
Apply N American and Cenral American templates to all nations listed - Just as the Middle East is a subunit of Asia and the Pacific is of Austrailia, Central America is on N America
1410:
Agree with CMD....Removal is not sensible & would contradict most WP articles & authoritative sources that lump even these islands near the S. Amer. coast with N. Amer.
686:; we can assume that North America consists of the USA, Canada and Mexico as countries and Greenland, Saint-Pierre and Miquelon and Bermuda as foreign (European) dependencies.
527:
Might as well keep both. It seems kind of like American versus British spelling issues, it doesn't hurt to respect both as encyclopedic since they both are in different areas.
1114:
I think we should include Iceland since it straddles the continental divide --- similar to how Kazakhstan is included on the Europe template and Egypt on the Asia template.
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various verifiable sources, not just one. From a purely geographical context, for instance, North America includes all territories generally 'west' and 'north' of the
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Geography does not allow for a clear delineation of continents. Continents are what we call continents, nothing more. There isn't any sort of consistent definition.
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Unless an editor can find confirmation from a reliable source, de facto jurisdiction over these banks will remain unconfirmed, and this page should reflect that.
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or one based on it which contains links to the categories and to a general article. This will provide the navigation powers of the template, without the clutter.
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We include islands of European and Asian countries that are geologically African in the Africa template; it possibly makes sense to do the same with Iceland. --
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Guadeloupe and Martinique are not dependencies of France, they are part of France, thus making France a country in North America. How best to resolve this? --
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have been fairly well established in most authoritative sources that reveal less "fuzziness" than some believe. Fuzzier than continental plates, sure. But
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Well Columbia's San Andreas Department is entirely in North America so if we are going to include france i suppose we should include them to. Venezuala's
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has, these are way up the middle of Central America. (Although, some of Venezuela's islands are further north than Aruba and Trinidad...) Any thoughts? --
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bite: in what sense do Trinidad and Tobago, Aruba, Curaçao and Bonaire 'politically' belong to North America in a way that Suriname and Guyana do not?
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actually has these banks under their control. The Colombian government lists them as being part of San Andres Department, so there's your equivelant.
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Please note that despite pressumably being in agreement User Copperchair once again reverted pages to exclude the template, and the template itself.
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accepted by respected international organisations, et al. Consideration should be given, too, to integrating the templates somehow.
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729:. Then there are ecogeographic and landform definitions (et al.) of what comprise North America. Thoughts? Thanks again!
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These are geographically entirely in South America, so I propose we remove them from this template (especially since we have
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Yeah, they are, but geography always takes second place to politics, and continents are the creations of a mixture of both.
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the full Kingdom, Netherlands proper would have to be considered a dependency, same situation with Greenland and Denmark. —
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page i would not know how to tackle the issue, though i think they should be included on the paeg in some form or another.
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Indeed, I was part of why they did that there, I figured I go tackle all of the other multicontinental countries. =p --
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Organizations (C. I. O. ) -- one as a distinct mid-Pacific Oceanic territory, and the other as a province of Canada.
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Your last point (Colombia) was fixed in an April edit...so now consistent....every Caribbean feature is now included.
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A suggestion for a standard approach to the naming, titling and sections of this and similar templates has been made
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Continents are primarily a construct of geography and of politics (don't misquote CMD...above, he said both, not
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373:. If you do not belirve the countries are in North America, make a case that they should be in South America.
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and Miquelon and the British dependency of Bermuda (both made up of small islands in the Atlantic Ocean)
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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The Dutch countries are legally equal under the Charter of the Kingdom of the Netherlands (old version
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navigation templates are a bad idea when the list involved is at all controversial. On the other hand,
1180:. The distance from Labrador to Iceland is 1370 miles, while from Norway to Iceland it is 610 miles.--
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being quite blatantly obvious on a map that the ABC islands are in the same chain as the
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YES.. although physically and geologically they are the same (but being part of
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and above conversation and discuss about making content boxes more uniform.
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Probably not prudent to remove an item in the middle of discussion DLinth.
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Moreover, your status is uncertain but you are apparently on some sort of
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countries. The pages that have been involved in this dispute so far are:
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One suggestion would be to include France in the top list, followed by
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continental plates. But this is continents, not geology, not plates.
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and do not remove this message until the contradictions are resolved.
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es por lo general considerado geográficamente parte de Norteamérica
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How does power work in the Netherlands? I may have been wrong.—
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Changing to Countries-of-North-America and removing dependencies
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part of a continent is a cesspit we should not want to enter.
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From the Spanish Knowledge (XXG) article on Central America:
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im trying to find central america but my mom says its rong
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Los geógrafos no consideran América Central un continente;
1417:(plate tectonics) are they "in S. Amer. entirely." That
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Third word at top of this whole section is wrong: only
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for a discussion pertaining to this template. Regards,
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489:(not all of which are included on the Central_America
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Status of Aruba, Curaçao, and Sint Maarten, Greenland
607:), it's more efficient to divide them politically. --
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describes, the term varies depending on the context
321:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
98:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
1088:various Antarctic Territories. Since there is no
854:– please visit and share your thoughts!  Thanks,
451:I have submitted this page to get voted on at :
827:THIS IS A CROSS-POST -- REPLY ON THAT PAGE ONLY.
823:Template talk:Countries of Europe#Outside review
846:Standardization suggestion - please contribute!
32:does not require a rating on Knowledge (XXG)'s
725:of Panama, and (sometimes) all islands in the
721:); from a geopolitical context, this includes
664:According to Official Knowledge (XXG) Policy,
463:Vote for what templates should be applied to
8:
1219:Trinidad, Tobago, Aruba, Bonaire and Curaçao
705:Hi thanks for your summary. As the article
623:This entire discussion is an example of why
1297:Politically, Belize is Caribbean, so ... --
1238:Countries and territories of the Caribbean
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173:Here are some tasks awaiting attention:
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335:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject North America
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1697:Template-Class North America articles
569:Template:Countries of Central America
315:This template is within the scope of
188:; see if anything catches your fancy.
112:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Countries
92:This template is within the scope of
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1702:NA-importance North America articles
673:. With this in mind, and given that
639:. Permit me to suggest either using
633:Category:Central American countries
38:It is of interest to the following
1707:WikiProject North America articles
982:appears to contradict the article
338:Template:WikiProject North America
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1461:Federal Dependencies of Venezuela
637:Category:North American countries
131:WikiProject Countries to-do list:
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246:pages of related articles, and
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592:05:57, September 6, 2005 (UTC)
552:07:27, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
201:clean-up listing for Countries
115:Template:WikiProject Countries
1:
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1178:Boundaries between continents
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532:18:53, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
329:and see a list of open tasks.
106:and see a list of open tasks.
1429:does not equal 'continents'.
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1396:but they are a minority. --
869:Speaking of standardization
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984:Dependent territory#France
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1023:(Guadeloupe, Martinique)
883:13:31, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
563:For Only Central America
360:Central v. North America
221:Category:Stubs by region
1090:Countries of Antarctica
605:Transcontinental nation
989:Please discuss at the
660:Knowledge (XXG) Policy
631:exists confortably in
558:For Only North America
341:North America articles
635:which is a subcat of
95:WikiProject Countries
832:this is messedrocker
772:states; case closed.
310:North America portal
219:de-stub articles in
740:representative maps
1439:Physical geography
1427:continental plates
792:Related discussion
783:E Pluribus Anthony
731:E Pluribus Anthony
549:E Pluribus Anthony
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1278:politically
1094:XavierGreen
1085:Aves Island
920:—Preceding
894:—Preceding
892:its weird
753:10/18/2005
609:N0thingness
481:El Salvador
422:Copperchair
420:All right.
385:Copperchair
237:WPCountries
1681:Categories
1423:continents
1031:Rennell435
950:Rennell435
677:says that
625:list-based
574:R. S. Shaw
484:Costa Rica
1162:source.--
991:talk page
629:Nicaragua
529:Karmafist
514:continent
478:Guatemala
469:Nicaragua
371:Continent
109:Countries
100:countries
59:Countries
1164:MorrisIV
1061:Colombia
922:unsigned
896:unsigned
779:narcotic
768:are two
696:contribs
584:=Nichalp
520:Ravedave
491:template
475:Honduras
456:Ravedave
439:Carnildo
375:Ravedave
30:template
1110:Iceland
878:MrZaius
751:Beadtot
675:Encarta
618:Neither
589:«Talk»=
499:Mbisanz
381:America
379:Wrong.
194:Cleanup
145:history
1443:DLinth
1398:Golbez
1360:DLinth
1346:Golbez
1299:Golbez
1197:Golbez
1149:DLinth
1134:Golbez
1068:Golbez
1045:Golbez
1008:Golbez
1002:France
860:(talk)
837:(talk)
766:Hawaii
762:Alaska
597:Panamá
487:Belize
472:Panama
409:Belize
248:assess
36:scale.
1642:Other
1601:Other
1558:Other
1489:dimmi
1419:would
1335:dimmi
1289:dimmi
1252:dimmi
1123:dimmi
679:quote
671:truth
666:quote
539:Terry
413:ÅfÇ++
228:Other
214:Stubs
155:purge
150:watch
28:This
1660:talk
1652:here
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1469:talk
1447:talk
1434:just
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1233:and
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904:talk
852:here
821:See
807:talk
798:here
764:and
717:(in
692:talk
447:Poll
244:talk
232:add
140:edit
1656:CMD
1637:531
1611:CMD
1596:531
1570:CMD
1553:531
1500:CMD
1465:CMD
1383:CMD
1313:CMD
1263:CMD
1182:BIL
796:Cf
723:all
711:and
599:in
242:to
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