Knowledge (XXG)

Template talk:Category redirect

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soft redirects, they are what some call "hard" redirects, and that is where I've concentrated my work. I've no opinion on the meta's module or any need for /doc edits; however, I will say that in all my time on WP I've never come across the instabilities the meta template creators wrote into the documentation. That does not mean those instabilities don't exist, it just means that the only thing I've seen is the weird sorting as subcategories rather than as entries, and I mistakenly
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simply put means that just because one CAN do something, it doesn't necessarily mean that one should do it. No matter how we shake it, the meta template's instability would cause all those cat redirs to become subcats rather than entries in that proposed special holding cat, and that cat would not be a true parent cat for any of those bastard children subkittens.
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It would be enormously helpful if this template accepted both the current parameter (the name of the category to which to redirect, e.g. "People," sans the "Category:" namespace) but also the full name of the category, including namespace (e.g. "Category:People"). In other words, I want to be able to
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So sorry, it didn't sound like you were responding to me, but to one of the others. I'm probably not the best person to ask about monitoring category redirects (or any other soft redirects) for instabilities. I've done very little work on soft redirects. The vast majority of redirects on WP are not
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Here's raising your "Hmm" with a starkly surprised "Hmmmmm"; yes, I'm astonished that you still don't seem to "get it". Of course! I can do just about anything with templates except make my lunch and do the dishes. I can also drive a Corvette Stingray at 200 mph through a 15 mph school zone, which
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happens; heck, if you're like me, you may have already tested it and found that it actually does happen. Thing is, if any normal rcat template is used on a soft category redirect, and that redirect becomes a subcategory in that rcat template's category, while other similar redirects are entries in
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Technically, the soft redirects are nothing but incoming links, so it would probably be nearly impossible to have the software notify the deleter about these. We do have warnings about incoming links, but since there nearly always are incoming links for other reasons, this warning would tend to be
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Furthermore, I often have something like "Category:People" on my clipboard and I'd like to just copy and paste it into the template when I use it. As it stands, I have to delete the word "Category:", or else accidentally save the redirect in a malformed way (so it will redirect to something like
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template is stable on the category redirect is because it does not actually categorize the redirect. What I've seen in the past, especially with category redirects is that if an rcat that actually categorizes the redirect is used, then the category redirect is added to the rcat's category as a
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We should consider the case if there is a rename. I am also concerned as to who is responsible for the placement of the speedy delete tag (no one but it should be the target deleter. And also any notification that would not occur). It would be even better to notify the deleter at the time of
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I see that it has actual functional sub-cats; so if category-space redirects were tagged with that template, nobody would want them to appear mixed in with those. But that could easily be fixed by having a special holding category for them, "Category redirects from alternative names". –
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I mouthed off. So if one really wants to track category redirects, one will have to settle for seeing them as subcategories rather than as entries, with a warning that such sortings are inconsistent with the "normal" category tree organization system. I still must recommend that the
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supplies information, it does not categorize the category redirect. So it is not an "rcat template" (redirect category template), it is an "r-info-only template". I don't understand the way the redirect categorization system appears to be being used incorrectly in this case?
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on the assumption that they are invalid. With the new template code, it will still change them, but they will be valid either way. I don't want to change this because the script is designed to work on any wiki, and other wikis may not accept the first form as valid.
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looks like at least one of those categories was designed as a container for only subcategories. Rcat categories are not so designed. Regardless of namespace, when any redirect page is tagged by an rcat template, the page should appear as an
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that was part of the instabilities problem, and as it turns out it is just a quirky trait of the category namespace. I wish I could be more help, but it would seem that my knowledge is limited. Thank you for your kind words,
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The justification for keeping a category redirect for a variant spelling (esp. organiation) or hyphen-to-dash is so similar to that for article space that I still don't grasp the ban on documenting their raison d'etre with
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template is not considered "unstable" in any namespace), and the category redirect still became a subcategory of the sorting category rather than just an entry. Apologies for being misleading; I should have done the tests
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template, I added that warning about not using it on soft redirects long ago before there were any specially made rcat templates that were created and designed to be used only on soft redirects (that did not use the
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Could you give a real, specific example as an illustration? In the abstract, I can't see what benefit you're hoping to accomplish. Particularly given that OC is generally about having an article be placed in
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I followed the link to "the instructions" from this new category I created - 'Category:Musicians with Dystonia' - but I don't understand what I'm supposed to do. Thank you in advance for more instructions.
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I'm still confused by some of the above. I don't understand the objection to category redirects being sub-cats of Rcat categories; this is normal in other tracking categories about category space, at e.g.
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I think it may be useful to redirect one category to several other categories so that they can be automatically placed in those categories. This would be a useful way to automate the cleanup of
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category redirect, whether its full protection right down to semi-protection, the subcategory problem will arise in the protection categories. Sorry, I was wrong and have to undo this edit.
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meta, I really don't see any problem with it's usage on soft category redirects. I can remove that warning from its documentation to accomodate its usage in this new, innovative application.
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Not sure what you mean by this - do you mean you want every entry in Category:A to become members of Category:B and Category:C (B and C are existing categories), then deprecate Category:A?
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that category, it would be misleading to editors, make them scratch their heads and wonder why. After all, a subcategory is like a child category, and that rcat category is decidedly
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rather than as a regular entry, which is an unexpected and undesired result. One concern then would be if an editor in the future were to add a tracking category to
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If used on soft redirects, such as category redirects, there may be unexpected results, because this template may prove to be unstable if used on a soft redirect.
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categories rather than too few. Unless you're trying to automate how to split up overly specific intersection categories...don't we already have tools for that?
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in the rcat template's category, not as a subcategory. That has always been regarded as one of the possible "instabilities" when any template that uses the
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meta template can be used on soft redirects, and category redirects are always soft redirects. Moreover, the documentation states to wrap with the
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deletion that there are these redirects pointing to the just deleted target. This would apply to other things apart from category redirects.
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above? I thought the substance of the objection was that we don't want to mingle redirected category pages with functional subcats in e.g.
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Yes, that seems to do the trick. Very nice! But I still need to check the bot code to make sure it will work with this version. --
2034:. Per BEANS, I decided not to add a note to the documentation, but if you think that's still necessary, then feel free to add it. 214:
This banner should be placed on the talk pages of project, template and category pages that exist and operate to maintain redirects.
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Of course, this might not be the best solution to this problem. Can anyone suggest a better way to automatically split categories?
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as their shell. Do we need to rewrite those two using a different meta just to avoid the out-of-date default documentation? –
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Knowledge (XXG):Categories for discussion/Log/2024 September 15#Category:Knowledge (XXG) non-empty soft redirected categories
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have been using it as their meta template for 5 and 3 years respectively. Have any problems arisen from that usage until now?
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There is such a bot. But this is not its intended use. If you want to rename a category, you should follow the process at
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I think that we should add, to this template, a speedy tag which appears if the target category is deleted. The template
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parameter, which would result in the subcategory problem I described above. Perhaps if that parameter were removed from
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I see that dated subcats are maintained by AnomieBOT, so probably not worth the upstream & downstream bother
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would redirect a page to Category:B and Category:C. It would be a very reasonable way to solve the problem of
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the
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that's been in the module for 10 years, so respect to you for your work and vigilance on these matters. –
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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It's not immediately intuitive which form to use, so it would be nice for the template to accept both.
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around the default category this template is adding so it doesn't appear in the category. I.e. change
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Please wait 48 hours on this so I can check how it will affect the category redirect bot. Thanks. --
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The sandbox revisions may produce undesired results if, for example, someone creates a redirect to
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So the rcat shell is to be removed? That makes sense now. Thank you for being patient with me, Tom
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going to categorise the redirects, do we need to amend the "shell" wording which you copied into
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Knowledge (XXG):Templates for discussion/Log/2023 December 24#Template:R from category navigation
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My thought process with adding the double-redirect checking to this template was that it mimics
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that category redirect's "parent" category. It would essentially be a case of bastardizing the
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I've checked the bot code and we should be fine. It already recognizes redirects of the form
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Then every page in that category would be automatically moved into the other two categories.
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template, which also specifically states it's not to be used on soft redirects. Wassup???
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meta is a much wiser way to go. An example of its usage will be found in the code of the
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Hmm, but is the meta template so unstable that it couldn't handle a little variation in
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Thank you – so we agree about where the pages appear if categorised. Now, about using
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we do have a documentation error: the default text from that meta template refers to
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I haven't yet found any tools to split overly-specific intersection categories like
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Hello there, I just changed a few categories into redirect categories (for example
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anyway? My apologies for having trouble following which templates call what.
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Category:Knowledge (XXG) soft redirected categories which are double redirects
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Thank you both! I have now added to the documentation on the three templates.
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Does this category need creating? It is populated by this template — Martin
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should not be used as a meta in any template that tags soft redirects. The
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Looks like an error has been made, because no rcat template that uses the
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for page-layout/prettification purposes, to make the cat #Rs look like
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Looks quite succinct to me :) Which word could you take out? — Martin
20: 3131: 2915: 2849: 2675: 2567: 2506: 2441: 2348: 2259: 2122: 2008: 1777: 1735: 1516:, and added some instructions about keeping or deleting redirects. – 924:
requests for changes to the page protection level should be made at
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thanks; I meant rather to indicate its non-empty subcats such as
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meta template is used to tag a soft redirect, per the warning in
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This needs input from the creator of the "rcat template", editor
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Avoid this template appearing in the category it is manipulating
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and updating the template's call is a good way forward. Best,
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to the top of the page to complete the nomination. Thank you.
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designed to be placed on the talk pages of most redirects and
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Category:Knowledge (XXG) non-empty soft redirected categories
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Category:Knowledge (XXG) non-empty soft redirected categories
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Won't they always appear as subcategories, as they do in the
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Category:Knowledge (XXG) non-empty soft redirected categories
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Category:Knowledge (XXG) non-empty soft redirected categories
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can't be used on soft redirects. While it does not use the
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Belated thanks for your note. I have deleted the redirect
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use this template with either of the two following calls:
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thanks, I wasn't aware of that soft-redirect nuance with
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Change to include a speedy tag when target doesn't exist?
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Expression error: Unrecognised punctuation character ",".
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Could be done, yes. A new rcat template, something like
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Do robots patroll automatically the redirect categories?
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Now I'm lost. I don't understand how the hypothetical
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Knowledge (XXG) non-empty soft redirected categories
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supported multiple targets, I would use it to split
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Can we redirect one category to multiple categories?
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This is why we sandbox proposed changes to templates
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Category:Language articles with undated speaker data
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Template-protected edit request on 14 November 2019
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Category:Knowledge (XXG) soft redirected categories
456: 436: 432: 409: 2798:By the way, I have since looked at the history of 2593:Category:Category redirects from alternative names 2493:Category:Category redirects from alternative names 2417:Hopefully the mist will clear. I'm sure you grasp 981:) and I wonder if there are robots that hunt for " 2491:meta and its instabilities, which could populate 1285:Template-protected edit request on 19 August 2016 2740:, but after your recent work those two now use 1239:Category:Software developers from New York City 79:does not require a rating on Knowledge (XXG)'s 1882:from those transclusions be an ok alternative? 1434:] → ]. The image is in the public domain. ~~ 1133:Yes, that's what I am proposing. For example, 2978:for removing unnecessary subsequent usage. – 2597:"would be entries rather than subcategories." 1576:has been listed at Templates for discussion ( 8: 2374:Category:Category series navigation isolated 2291:Category:Non-empty disambiguation categories 926:Knowledge (XXG):Requests for page protection 2295:Category:Category series navigation cleanup 1920:At a glance it appears that the reason the 680:which should do what is suggested above. -- 3267:Knowledge (XXG) categories needing cleanup 1093:tedious and time-consuming cleanup process 641:Allow for flexibility in parameter passing 162: 94: 2586:R category redirect from alternative name 2482:R category redirect from alternative name 2457:Category:Redirects from alternative names 2099:, and those protection templates use the 661:"Category:Category:People"). Thank you. 315:Any contributor may edit the template's 233:redirects. For more information see the 1537:Edit request to complete TfD nomination 1328:<span class="db-c3lzb3Atc2hvdw": --> 578:, I've changed the sandbox version line 293:heavily used or highly visible template 164: 96: 1940: 1861: 884:Can this template be converted to use 143:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Categories 3323:Category:Double-redirected categories 3235:Category:Double-redirected categories 2954:has now incorporated the function of 2103:meta. What this means is that if the 1512:which was left by moving the page to 1259:Category:American software developers 653:{{Category redirect|Category:People}} 123:This template is within the scope of 68: 66: 7: 3286:Non-empty soft redirected categories 2081:doc page, when I remembered why the 1676:Template:Category redirect/testcases 888:instead of full protection? Thanks. 618:with a twist that allows capture by 246:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Redirect 3292:Non-empty disambiguation categories 2885:Category:19th century in New Mexico 408:. The page shows a red error text: 85:It is of interest to the following 3262:, we should probably also rename: 3071: 2718:R from template-generated category 2624:Sorry if I lost you there, editor 2237:and once again this edit has been 1840:has ~1800 transclusions which use 1255:Category:People from New York City 457:{{PAGESINCATEGORY:{{PAGENAME}}|R}} 31: 26:This template was considered for 14: 2487:could be constructed without the 191:This page is within the scope of 3260:Knowledge (XXG) category cleanup 3225: 3111: 3058:Description of suggested change: 3028: 2959:Soft redirect with Wikidata item 2868:Soft redirect with Wikidata item 2659:Soft redirect with Wikidata item 2605:Redirects from alternative names 2532:Category:Category redirects from 2239: 2023: 1988: 1641: 1606: 1544: 1514:Category:Musicians with dystonia 1510:Category:Musicians with Dystonia 1454: 1405: 1360: 1292: 942:Alright, thanks for the notice. 916: 855: 821: 609: 541: 511:Please add <includeonly/: --> 482: 433:{{PAGESINCATEGORY:{{PAGENAME}}}} 400:The template gives error message 354: 273: 184: 166: 116: 98: 67: 19: 2428:category tree organizing system 1986:And this edit request has been 1091:, which now seems to require a 713:Category:Knowledge (XXG):Trolls 455:It can be fixed by changing to 146:Template:WikiProject Categories 3350:03:33, 15 September 2024 (UTC) 3318:19:18, 13 September 2024 (UTC) 3258:While we're at it, looking at 3254:17:43, 13 September 2024 (UTC) 3216:13:14, 13 September 2024 (UTC) 3198:12:34, 13 September 2024 (UTC) 3181:11:31, 13 September 2024 (UTC) 3166:11:06, 13 September 2024 (UTC) 439:at the moment. Self-solving. - 1: 3380:Template-Class redirect pages 2974:– thank you for that, and to 2595:with category redirects that 2335:that template's documentation 1965:meta template). So since the 1628:16:32, 15 December 2023 (UTC) 1600:14:53, 15 December 2023 (UTC) 1488:02:50, 13 February 2021 (UTC) 1471:00:34, 15 November 2019 (UTC) 1449:23:58, 14 November 2019 (UTC) 1151:22:33, 14 November 2016 (UTC) 1121:17:19, 20 February 2016 (UTC) 1075:11:45, 15 December 2015 (UTC) 1062:09:42, 15 December 2015 (UTC) 1046:07:18, 15 December 2015 (UTC) 842:15:09, 4 September 2013 (UTC) 814:13:52, 4 September 2013 (UTC) 773:00:30, 3 September 2013 (UTC) 759:19:21, 2 September 2013 (UTC) 733:18:38, 2 September 2013 (UTC) 707:13:22, 2 September 2013 (UTC) 693:09:50, 2 September 2013 (UTC) 671:03:40, 2 September 2013 (UTC) 249:Template:WikiProject Redirect 209:and see a list of open tasks. 137:and see a list of open tasks. 3375:WikiProject Categories pages 2942:11:32, 2 February 2024 (UTC) 2924:19:04, 1 February 2024 (UTC) 2900:10:52, 1 February 2024 (UTC) 2858:18:06, 31 January 2024 (UTC) 2825:10:48, 31 January 2024 (UTC) 2794:22:38, 29 January 2024 (UTC) 2763:17:51, 29 January 2024 (UTC) 2684:16:11, 29 January 2024 (UTC) 2620:22:25, 28 January 2024 (UTC) 2576:18:38, 28 January 2024 (UTC) 2551:14:58, 28 January 2024 (UTC) 2515:13:32, 28 January 2024 (UTC) 2473:23:01, 27 January 2024 (UTC) 2450:18:34, 27 January 2024 (UTC) 2413:17:09, 27 January 2024 (UTC) 2357:16:43, 27 January 2024 (UTC) 2310:11:09, 27 January 2024 (UTC) 2268:19:03, 19 January 2024 (UTC) 2205:13:10, 19 January 2024 (UTC) 2131:11:30, 19 January 2024 (UTC) 2053:10:56, 19 January 2024 (UTC) 2017:10:34, 19 January 2024 (UTC) 1908:09:13, 19 January 2024 (UTC) 1786:08:20, 19 January 2024 (UTC) 1744:07:51, 19 January 2024 (UTC) 1699:05:48, 19 January 2024 (UTC) 1634:Edit request 19 January 2024 1529:08:05, 30 January 2022 (UTC) 1277:19:40, 4 November 2023 (UTC) 1108:08:35, 11 January 2016 (UTC) 1018:11:09, 5 December 2014 (UTC) 999:06:03, 5 December 2014 (UTC) 965:01:58, 28 October 2013 (UTC) 938:01:46, 28 October 2013 (UTC) 911:01:08, 28 October 2013 (UTC) 650:{{Category redirect|People}} 594:, for your consideration. -- 3233:for that. I think creating 3051:to reactivate your request. 3039:has been answered. Set the 2636:meta (as you may know, the 2601:cleanup tracking categories 2385:R from alternative spelling 1664:to reactivate your request. 1652:has been answered. Set the 1567:to reactivate your request. 1555:has been answered. Set the 1428:to reactivate your request. 1416:has been answered. Set the 1392:01:43, 19 August 2016 (UTC) 1355:01:13, 19 August 2016 (UTC) 1315:to reactivate your request. 1303:has been answered. Set the 878:to reactivate your request. 866:has been answered. Set the 622:of all incorrect usages. – 570:Category redirect/testcases 505:to reactivate your request. 493:has been answered. Set the 3396: 3271:Categories needing cleanup 2863:OK, thanks. I tried using 2708:R from category navigation 2148:R from category navigation 1945:R from category navigation 1937:R from category navigation 1925:R from category navigation 1835:R from category navigation 1760:R from category navigation 1574:Template:Category redirect 1321:Could you please wrap the 1235:overly specific categories 631:19:18, 4 August 2015 (UTC) 604:16:53, 4 August 2015 (UTC) 562:12:42, 12 April 2013 (UTC) 535:06:57, 12 April 2013 (UTC) 525:as I have in the sandbox. 469:19:31, 9 August 2012 (UTC) 449:16:50, 31 March 2012 (UTC) 426:16:32, 31 March 2012 (UTC) 281:Template:Category redirect 2991:14:17, 30 July 2024 (UTC) 1135:{{category redirect|B|C}} 721:|Knowledge (XXG):Trolls}} 719:Category redirect/sandbox 179: 111: 93: 56:Skip to table of contents 3140:04:22, 22 May 2024 (UTC) 3105:02:07, 22 May 2024 (UTC) 3021:Edit request 22 May 2024 1244: 1208:14:54, 18 May 2018 (UTC) 1175:22:18, 30 May 2017 (UTC) 676:I've put some mods into 55: 2735:Redirect category shell 2536:Category:Redirects from 2525:R from alternative name 2181:Redirect category shell 2161:Redirect category shell 1877:Redirect category shell 1845:Redirect category shell 1817:Redirect category shell 1504:23:48, 5 May 2021 (UTC) 301:edit template-protected 2166:. 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