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war, in Europe alone. (Let's not forget that the second world war meant persecution and outright genocide for many nationalities and groups of people around the world, at the hands of nazis, fascists and other totalitarian regimes, with the
European situation being one of the worst, along with the situation in East Asia.) Christmas has several facets as a holiday, but one of its main aspects all around the world is that it's a holiday of peace, a holiday of tolerance and respect, a holiday of togetherness and sharing. It certainly is not a holiday to be co-opted by fascists, any kind of supremacists and totalitarians. Or be presented as something integral to extremist movements - this runs the risk of normalizing those movement's views as "equally legitimate", when their views are certainly not like that and have also been historical exceptions, rather than the rule.
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in the template does not feel historically responsible to me, but needlessly exploitative ("war porn", "totalitarian porn" ĂĄ la those TV documentaries salivating over nazis, soviets, etc.), in a template that is otherwise dedicated to a mild and civil look at
Christmas. Let's please not normalize or lionize an extremely fringe version of something as the standard version of something. People can click the link to Christmases in Germany in the template, and they can read the main German Christmas article, and then click from there on the link that leads them to the article on how the nazis abused Christmas for their own propaganda. I think it's far more sensible that way than including such a link directly in the template.
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the broader public, so they will stay well-informed on how totalitarians can co-opt various holidays for their own propaganda goals, but I also think we need to be a bit sensitive in how we include content like this in a template dealing with an otherwise mild, relaxing holiday topic. With regards to the main article on how
Germany celebrates Christmas, I think it's important to keep a link in the history section of that article, to the other article on how Christmas was exploited in the era of the nazi regime.
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already tentative and that to Zwarte Piet is in my view at least one step too far. The associations chain would be
Christmas - Santa Claus - Saint Nicholas - Sinterklaas - Zwarte Piet (5 steps). Compared to that many other symbols would be equally closely related (or even more closely). For example Christmas - Birth of Jesus - Death of Jesus - Easter - Easter Bunny makes the same number of associative steps, yet I do not see either easter or the easter bunny here.
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Knowledge (XXG) template to help ingraine that gross stereotype in more clueless people or one's with weaker historical education. The far-right exists in modrn day
Germany, but they are not mainstream to any significant extent and German society is deeply averse to fascism. A historical or modern German Christmas has precious little to do with the nazi propaganda versions of Christmas. --
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I fully agree that
Knowledge (XXG) should not shy away from having articles depicting how Christmas and other public holidays were abused by various totalitarian regimes and movements as part of their manipulative propaganda. It is very important to keep these historical facts alive and accessible to
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The inclusion of such a link in the
Christmas template feels exploitative, in the same way all those sensationalist documentaries on TV outright gush and slobber about nazis, nazis, nazis, and ignore or gloss over the countless atrocities, the civilian victims and soldier victims of the second world
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As a responsible
Wikipedian, I do not want the template to come across as if it's endorsing a vile totalitarian regime's twisted vision of Christmas, when that vision has little to do with any sort of conventional religious or secular values associated with Christmas. Including such a link directly
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However, I can imagine that Saint
Nicholas is included as much of the father Christmas tradition (the name Santa Claus) the red and white costume, handing gifts to children are derived from the Dutch Sinterklaas tradition (trhough early Dutch settlers in the US). However, the link to Sinterklaas is
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I don't think that Frosty the
Snowman, the Grinch, Rudolph, and Ebeneezer Scrooge count as Folklore, as they are from specific fictional works with a known author and origin. I would place them under Media, give them a separate section, or remove them from the infobox altogether, as the individual
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On a final note, the removal of the link also avoids the still common stereotype today - common especially among Americans - that "every single German citizen is a nazi or supporter of nazism". It sounds ridiculous, but many American citizens (shockingly) still believe in this, and I don't want a
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These cantilevered roof sections have in some instances collapsed beneath and fallen upon firefighters working at incidents. Never assume that they are as stable as the rest of the roof appears to be, since we probably will know neither the condition of the fasteners and connections, nor the
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why these shouldn't be included. People have pointed out to me that the template would be to large. Well, yes, but as I've said before, I've seen many other templates that are larger than average, and I've only seen one occasion where people say it is a problem, and that is the
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I have removed them altogether since they are easily accessed through the "fiction" link in media. If someone feels they should be linked in this template, they certainly do not belong under folklore. I have also removed links to
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Probably true. If you have any related pages that you think should be added that reflect the folklore of Christmas from other regions please suggest them. I don't really know of any so it is hard for me to suggest them myself.
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There are more Christmas films then Stephen King books. So yes, it would make the template too large if every Christmas film, book or music would be included. A link to the categories or list pages is enough.
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Yea! I'd say it's a tradition and I'm glad it's staying. I'm not even a huge "Santa" person but I think it's a great true story, and after half a century I'd be comfortable calling it a traditions.
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I am going to change the colour of the template from the current red "Red" to something that gives less contrast. I find the bright red distracting and the headings difficult to read.
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but I'm not sure why. A helpful editor noted that Children's Day is celebrated on 25 December in seven African countries, but it's not obvious whether this is more than coincidence.
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is no longer active and cannot give us any rationale for the addition. Perhaps you could ask on that article's talk page instead of assuming bad faith in its addition here.
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tradition. Saint Nicholas himself has little to do with Christmas as he is patron saint of children, the city of Amsterdam and seafarers with his name day on December 6.
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However, I do feel that the outright addition of the link to the article (on Christmas in the era of nazi Germany) to the Christmas template is... in very poor taste.
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In short inclusion of Zwarte Piet is in my view arbitrary and lack argumentation and reliable sources that indeed anyone considers this a mythical Christmas symbol.
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Rather than the crass, contemptible, commercialized image of the pagan Christmas tree, I know, why don't we show something that's actually Christmasy, like, uh, a
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Warning: Template:Christmas (edit) is calling Template:Navbox with more than one value for the "above" parameter. Only the last value provided will be used. (
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But that's a repeat of a link that is already present. I disagree that removing it is the best choice. It likely has some association with Christmas, but
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705:: just because other templates are like that doesn't mean this one should be. My two arguments are these: a) the template already has a link to both
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It's a nice photo but I just noticed, after seeing it 100s of times, that only the top two thirds of the tree are lit. Is this a candles thing?
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I changed the title and the main section font color to red to make it more of a Christmacy feel. Sorry if it made it look like redlinks.
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condition of the structural members, nor the effects of fire in the concealed space upon both the connections and structural members.
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Thanks! And by "already present" I mean that Christmas Day redirects to Christmas, and that is linked in the heading of the template.
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Although the 'NORAD Tracks Santa' is a cute program, I don't think that it has established a position as a Christmas tradition yet.
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I will be adding some more related figures and locations. If you disagree with any, revert them and we'll discuss why here. --
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it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. â
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Wiki page says it is eaten on a DĂa de Reyes which is celebrated on Jan 6 - doesn't appear to be on Christmas.
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This seems to be an ongoing debate. We need consenus. Now, I will voice my personal opinion... I honestly see
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In the absence of any further evidence of connections to Children's Day, I've replaced it with Christmas Day.
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I feel like the Folklore section is very strongly POV in favor of a few English-speaking Western countries...
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Shouldn't there be a link to the numerous Pagan traditions that helped to create modern christmas, e.g.
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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b) the works listed were random, that's why I named up a few Christmas-themed films at random too. --
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It's offensive having the WP Christmas template shoving anti-Christmas propaganda down our throats.
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sections above as well). I suggest it use the default navbox color scheme, instead of the
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This navbox has evidently gone through several iterations of color over the years (see
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that support the change you want to be made. Christmas isn't mentioned in the article.
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If anybody wants something to be added or taken away feel free to suggest it here.
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I cannot find "Christmas Music" on this template, and this is not clear X to Y.
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Could someone make the "M" in the Christmas Music pothole (to Songs) lowercase?
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He is a companion of St. Nicholas, and so is included for that reason.
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since they contain very little, if any, content relevant to Christmas.
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Removed the link to Christmas in nazi Germany - here is my reasoning
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Oh, sorry. He was hidden behind the "other characters"-section.
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Should Literature and Film be included under their own section?
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Good idea. I've left a query on the Children's Day talk page.
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Would you like to suggest a picture with the right shape? --
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works can be found in the various Media categories.
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994:He is the companion of Saint Nicholas in the Dutch
1380:Semi-protected edit request on 20 December 2022
1262:Semi-protected edit request on 12 February 2022
1036:Semi-protected edit request on 25 November 2014
109:does not require a rating on Knowledge (XXG)'s
952:to Food and drink section under "Deserts". --
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510:What about
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1487:#Prime Red
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672:seriously
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25:Christmas
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460:Remember
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107:template
51:get help
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