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1772:. The article is poorly sourced, lacks a worldwide view on the subject and seems outdated in 2017, when we find much of the tabloid journalism and other poorly sourced journalism in online publications. It's ironic that a template which deals with poor sources has a link to an article with poor sources. The link should be removed unless the article improves dramatically.
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Hi Oliver, sorry, I didn't notice your response. I'm not keen on sending people to yet another page, not least because we'd have to write it, or fix an existing one. I really can't see a problem with the way the template is currently written. It links to the policy, and repeats the key points because
1028:
Reduce linking. The current template has a pile of links, which is great for keeping people informed but increases the chances they'll end up wandering down a "6 degrees of
Knowledge" rabbit hole. The new template has one link and one link only: a link to a help page that explains how to add reliable
873:
I'd agree that there are issues with that particular wording, but I think it's a good idea. It might be worth removing "and not the WMF" as that could confuse newer editors and those wishing to seek redress for their concerns. It directs them to the noticeboard, anyway. As for the above, this appears
1651:
I don't think that it is necessary to have a synchronisation between this template and the BLP talk page template, both serve different purposes. This editnotice should definitely not be too long, for example mentioning removing inappropriate content from the talk page is superflous, and that it may
1577:
I take your point about length, but what's needed is something succinct, without being so short that we leave out key information. I edit BLPs a lot -- and other articles containing material about living persons -- and the same issues come up time and again, especially from new editors. They are (a)
1275:
Also, can I suggest we remove "unsourced or poorly..." and replace it with the "please only add material that is cited to a reliable source" message? So, realistically, this message is hitting new users (experienced editors gloss over it, and/or already know the policies). New users are likely to be
1124:
So how about "This is a
Biography of a Living Person, and so must adhere to . Please only add content that has , and remove any that lacks them. If you have concerns about this article, please report them to ". That's 240 characters, which is a bit long (and I hope people can think of ways to cut it
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Hi Oliver, I wouldn't support the text you propose. First, it's not informative enough; editors and the subjects of BLP need those links to tell them what to do (remove material immediately, go to the noticeboard, etc), and we need that information on BLP talk pages to be able to point editors to it
1330:
I think we need to keep "must be removed immediately" in bold. And "unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material" is from the policy -- that's the material that must be removed immediately. New users add and remove; the point of the template is to make sure everyone knows that they both may and
1151:
The "unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material" and "must be removed immediately" are important (they are part of the point of the template) -- rather than forcing people to read the policy. "This article is a BLP" doesn't work because it's sometimes added to non-BLPs. We could tighten it to
817:
1) As a roundabout way to tell people "you're responsible for the edits you make" without frightening them away. 2) Most definitely. :) 3) Indeed, that is the case. Perhaps we could change it to "If you find libellous material in an biography of a living person, or you have other concerns about the
1053:
easily. Second, it suggests that this particular BLP is sensitive for a particular reason that we're not mentioning ("this biography ... is sensitive"). Third, what matters is that the article adhere to the BLP policy, not only the sourcing policies: material may be sourced but still inappropriate.
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of our editors - others might not be adding information pertaining to a living person at all, or might already know the policy. If we can direct people to a specific place, we have the opportunity to give them what they need without bulking up the edit window. Just a random idea; may be silly ;p.
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Reduce text. The shorter something is the more likely people are to actually read it - while the current notice does a good job of covering every possible permutation of concern, the downside is it makes it rather complex (it contains what not to do, what to do if someone else has done what you
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I would strongly agree with SlimVirgin. The new template is more like a standard RS "sources needed" template - we've decided to treat BLP pages much more carefully than that. In particular the note about contentious material needing to be "removed immediately" needs to remain in the text.
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Directing those editors to the BLP template puts them straight, gives them the links they need, shows them that having a source isn't enough. It's either have it on a template, or expect editors to have to explain it over and over and over on talk pages.
182:). We should be consistent. I would like to do this myself, but I see that I need to be granted permission as a Template Editor before being able to do so. For now, I will pursue that objective, then return here, if and when I am granted such authority.--
1506:, I see there is information that we need to retain here too -- that it applies to non-BLPs too, and to talk pages, and the issue of libel is probably worth retaining. If you want to add something about the need to use sources, we could say:
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why are you saying BLP applies to this when it's not a BLP? (b) I have a reliable source for this, so what's the problem? (c) Why do you keep removing the information even from the talk page? (d) Where can I get other opinions about this?
762:. WikiProject Templates is wrong though, a template transcluded onto highly visible pages needs to be protected even if it's not supposed to output anything: A vandal might be inclined to change the nothingness into a huge penis.
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on
Wikitionary, and more relevantly, the fact that Jimmy Wales's article warning about avoidance of defamatory and libelous content in Knowledge articles, particularly BLPs, uses the spelling libelous, not libellous (see here
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What do you think about the changes I made there? I made the COI part more visible and add more links, but I don't know where I can get consensus to make these changes (This will likely turn into a stale discussion).
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No, because this template is used as an editintro, and even categories and interwiki links in noinclude tags will be shown on the editpage there. Check for example the categories and interwiki when you press
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shouldn't do, what to do if someone has done what you should not do multiple times, what to do if you're connected to the subject and don't want to do what you're not meant to do but do want to do
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That discussion is about whether or not it should have a coloured background, not whether it should have warning icons and "Attention" text. We shouldn't be using warning icons except to actually
963:, but haven't touched things like this template - we wanted to give it a more considered look, and we certainly didn't want to change anything without getting feedback from the community :).
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This template is over the top. Please remove the scary warning icon and "Attention!" line. It doesn't need to be any different to its equivalent on talk pages, that has been there for years:
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Again, having a reliable source is not the only issue when it comes to living people; that's an issue for every article. This template points to what is different about living-person edits.
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editing with the intention of adding, rather than removing, stuff, which makes the adding advice marginally more useful, and crucially I don't know about you but I've seen people have
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1) Why? 2) It could use a grammar overhaul. :) 3) Generally, the longer such messages are, the less they are read. If anything I'd think the last two sentences should be shortened.
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for information on what this entails, go to "? The problem at the moment is that we have a template containing a lot of information and a lot of links. This is imperative for
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sources and what they are. This is what we want the user to do, and so it should be the place they're sent if they notice the template and make the judgment call to follow it.
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739:, I was told that protection would not be necessary as it's not shown on the page. If you absolutely think it's necessary, you can also protect it yourself. Thank you. --
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That won't work with page preloads, right? It should work with editnotices though, but I don't see a reason why we'd want to document, categorize, or interwiki those.
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Exactly. People don't seem to realise that no matter how many in your face warning messages they put up, things will still happen. It's a wiki, get used to it.
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the best approach to displaying documentation on editintros. (I don't doubt you're right, but it never hurts to notify and discuss first ;) Regards, — Martin
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959:, myself and a couple of devs have been poking and prodding at the edit interface recently to try and simplify it. We've made a lot of changes to the actual
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would probably need protecting before it can be used on a protected template. Before that, however, I would like to see some discussion/consensus that this
393:) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
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layout. If you would like any edit notice, not just this one, to stand out and be read, it is probably better to have this discussion over there. Cheers.
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people about stuff. Otherwise, they just learn to ignore all the bloated crap in the interface (I know I have) and so don't pay attention to things that
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I'm fine with it. And I like the new design. It would be nicer, I think, with a line around the purple to stop the squiggly effect (technical term). :)
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I would like to replace libellous with libelous in the interest of consistent usage throughout
Wikimedia projects, see for example the spelling of
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There's an option C: could we not have a simple template that says "this must follow the BLP policy, yada yada, it is imperative it follows it,
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The addition does not seem designed for editors, and noneditors are unlikely to go to the talk page, where such templates reside. Have you seen
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666:. This template will then add a documentation on this page, which will however not be displayed when seeing the editintro itself. Thank you. --
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experiences when new/anonymous editors remove content. The default assumption tends to be that it was wrong of them to do so :S. Thoughts?
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text :S. We're giving them five or six different options, most of which won't apply, some of which are contraindicative, because of the
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policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Please make sure that anything you add is
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That works better, I think. Are you guys comfortable with that? And, if so, what do you think of the simplified template design?
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Surely this template should mention that non-free images of living people are permitted only under exceptional circumstances. —
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All editnotices don't need to be red, but this one, in trying to reduce the massive amount of libel on
Knowledge, should be. --
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Could we consider an other background that would make the template stand out when editing? I'm thinking something yellowish. --
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to the template, and then immediately self-reverted. What do you guys think about it, and do you have any other suggestions?
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I can't think of any better way to make sure editors are aware of it. This would be more effective than incoherently shouting
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in the infobox of every BLP which does not already have a photo. Can you suggest a practical alternative? —
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1083:. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if there are other concerns, please report the issue to
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1528:. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
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404:. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
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I reverted it back to its original state. That change shouldn't have been done without discussion.
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provides quick guidelines on the type of feedback that we can constructively use. Thanks!
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110:- libellous is correct according to my dictionary. I don't think this is even a case of
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1532:. If you are connected to one of the subjects of this article and need help, see
227:...And most newbies would not even notice it with that type of white background.
1087:. If you are connected to the subject of this article and need help, please see
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
1189:. If you are connected to the subject of the article and need help, please see
998:. If you are connected to the subject of the article and need help, please see
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to edit this page, and you'll see a lot of clutter from the noinclude part of
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Actually at the current dimensions it is likely to be noticed but unread (see
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I'm actually wondering why this template was created when we already have
1520:. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons
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IMO, I think it should stand out more since BLP is a critical policy.
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where they are useful. I'm not really sure of the solution to this.
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must remove anything dodgy about a living person without hesitation.
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Talkdoc is now being deleted as technical problems have been fixed.
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99.9 percent of the time people are not going to read the policy.
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do is only add stuff with reliable sources: that's pretty much it.
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worth worrying about. The edit screen is a good example of this.
1185:. If you have concerns about the article, please report them to
994:. If you have concerns about the article, please report them to
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if we don't need more noticeable message ASAP to reduce libility
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Alright, what ever works the best is fine for me (although the
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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
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Hey all! So, as you may be aware if you use the Vector skin,
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We've made a redesign of the template, as transcluded here.
114:, as it doesn't give libelous as an alternative spelling. —
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at the top of the edit box on every BLP if memory serves.
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Seems sensible to me. Full protection is of course a must.
936:— In furtherance of consolidation with Template:BLP. --
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664:{{Editintro documentation|page=Template:BLP editintro}}
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As always, we're grateful for any and all feedback -
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down!) but it seems to address all of the elements.
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Template-protected edit request on 18 November 2016
906:, since there are probably more eyes on that page.
180:for spelling throughout as libelous not libellous
86:Please replace libellous with libelous. Thanks,
662:Hello, can you please add the following line:
258:, I decided to change it back to the standard
317:This template was designed primarily for the
8:
735:has said it would be fine to use it, and at
140:which only uses libelous with a single L.
1707:Hey man, shouldn't "See ]." be "See ]."?
136:Sorry about that then. I was going of of
500:vandal will ignore anything anyway...).
737:Knowledge:Requests for page protection
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
1551:Yeah. The objective is ultimately to
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1152:this without losing any information:
1058:For clarity, the current text reads:
1768:This template links to the article
1008:The priorities/thinking behind it:
551:please update Interlanguage links
254:For consistency with all the other
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450:the discussion two sections above
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1510:This article must adhere to the
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612:You may want to take a look at
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153:Appears it is an ENGVAR thing.
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1513:biographies of living persons
1470:Sorry, I got mixed up there.
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1068:biographies of living persons
982:biographies of living persons
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731:Hello, please insert it now.
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594:Ah, here's a bug about that:
386:biographies of living persons
323:WP:NONFREE#Guideline examples
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1652:not be a biography as well.
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18:Template talk:BLP editnotice
1701:to reactivate your request.
1689:has been answered. Set the
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1183:must be removed immediately
1077:must be removed immediately
992:must be removed immediately
925:|Template:BLP/Edit notice}}
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192:06:56, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
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1764:Link to tabloid journalism
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1272:Redrafted - see above :).
951:Redesigning the BLP intro
885:Penny for your thoughts?
621:01:48, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
553:zh:Template:BLP editintro
1804:13:23, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
934:Template:BLP/Edit notice
775:Proposed small expansion
605:13:15, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
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448:You mean you didn't see
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647:Editintro documentation
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42:of past discussions.
1502:Now I look again at
1247:That would work. --
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1258:Purple? :P.
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1250:Philosopher
1116:Philosopher
957:Vibha Bamba
902:Discussion
878:HJÂ Mitchell
628:Dpleibovitz
256:editnotices
36:This is an
1691:|answered=
1635:SlimVirgin
1590:SlimVirgin
1557:edge cases
1541:SlimVirgin
1472:SlimVirgin
1421:SlimVirgin
1238:SlimVirgin
1213:SlimVirgin
1099:SlimVirgin
642:Inserting
498:determined
319:BLP policy
263:editnotice
197:Background
1534:this page
1526:libellous
1191:this page
1089:this page
1081:libellous
1015:something
1000:this page
820:this page
781:this edit
573:this link
402:libellous
184:FeralOink
112:WP:ENGVAR
67:Archive 2
61:Archive 1
1654:Cenarium
1278:terrible
1035:this doc
961:software
848:Maurreen
809:Amalthea
806:Cheers,
765:Amalthea
719:Amalthea
601:Amalthea
582:Amalthea
436:Cenarium
204:lucasbfr
107:Not done
923:movereq
779:I made
618:RockMFR
502:Zzyzx11
462:Zzyzx11
331:Zzyzx11
284:Jeandré
270:Zzyzx11
229:Zzyzx11
215:Zzyzx11
39:archive
1023:should
1019:should
984:policy
938:Bsherr
616:. ---
557:Azeybs
290:14:48z
1774:Floyd
1745:Godsy
1695:|ans=
1681:This
516:Gurch
484:Gurch
421:Gurch
245:). —
138:Libel
16:<
1800:talk
1778:talk
1751:CONT
1738:Done
1715:talk
1658:talk
1612:talk
1603:some
1565:talk
1286:talk
1264:talk
1228:talk
1131:talk
1043:talk
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912:talk
908:PC78
904:here
852:talk
832:Talk
822:."?
793:Talk
760:Done
745:talk
704:talk
700:MSGJ
672:talk
632:talk
561:talk
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476:warn
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368:sudo
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160:§hep
143:§hep
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75:Typo
1693:or
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480:are
391:BLP
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