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Phoenix includes several paragraphs on his time in
Venezuela in TFI and he said a bit about it. Joaquin Phoenix also said a bit about his time in several interviews. Rose McGowan also talked about her time in TFI in Italy in several interviews, as did Christopher Owens and Susan Cagle/Justice. Christy Gibson and Jonas Anderson have been very vocal of their membership and support of TFI in Thailand (and TFI promoted their involvement in TFI). Kerenina Sunny Halim was, in the past, very active in TFI. Anyway, I don't really care either way. If you don't think these names should be included, feel free to delete any or all of them. --
378:) indicated that "ll of these people have self-identified themselves as affiliated (past/present) with this group". Where, in each article, are these two criteria—self-identification and relevance to notable activities—satisfied? I checked each article prior to removing the names and found content confirming that the individuals'
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No members belong in the template. It is simply not possible to provide the necessary details and citations in the template. It doesn't matter whether they are current or former members. Imagine including membership lists in templates for any other organization, it would be a nightmare. Would we put
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As the one would reverted back to inclusion of those names, I reconsidered and I now agree with you. Some of those names do not belong. When I wrote that "they have self-identified", I should have clarified. Some of them have. The entire
Phoenix family were members of TFI and the biography of River
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It is as I mentionned in the article - have a look at the other templates in the same category - notice anything different? You cannot arbitrarily place links to push your own POV such as links to articles on anti-cult organisations - this is both misleading and does not solely deal with the COG.
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I question the inclusion of a number of names in this template, specifically those of individuals who: (1) do not have
Knowledge articles; or (2) whose articles do not indicate that they self-identified with COG/TFI or that their past affiliation with COG/TFI is relevant to their notability.
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The first group includes
Christopher Owens, Juliana Buhring, Celeste Jones and Kristina Jones. The purpose of navigation templates is to help readers navigate between related articles, so what is the rationale for listing individuals who do not have articles to which readers could navigate?
421:. I understand and support listing the leaders of an organization and people known for their association (pro- or anti-) with the organization, but why should a general template about TFI contain a list of ordinary members who are not known primarily for their affiliation with TFI? --
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Anyone who isn't unequivocally a current member, and who hasn't self-identified as such, should not be included in the template, full stop. Including 'former members' in a list entitled 'members' is just plain wrong. Can anyone give me a valid reason why I shouldn't delete
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a list of members of the
Catholic Church is a template about the Catholic Church? Lutherans in a Lutheran Church template? If the members held some sort of official position or role, then yes. Born into the group or simply joined it? Not!
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As for the specific links in the template, most if not all of the entries that were removed appear to have a direct connection to the topic. It'd be best to bring them to the talk page to discuss rather than deleting with no consensus.
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I won't get into COI, however the reason there is a talk page is to discuss issues, and so far, there has not been much input from editors not directly associated with the article or the movement.
486:. Their notability is linked to their membership in TFI, and they probably should be included. Perhaps the "Leadership" and "Members" groups could be combined into one "People" group:
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Categories regarding religious beliefs ... should not be used unless the subject has publicly self-identified with the belief ... in question; and the subject's beliefs ... are
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discuss it, get a consensus, and then remove it. The links you removed because they are "POV" is only your opinion. As Joie de Vire pointed out, you removed the link to the
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Sorry, Sfacets. That is not how it works on
Knowledge (I trust you have been around a while to know this). You do not remove alleged POV and then discuss it; you
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This looks to me like undue weight to put the names of members or ex-members or people whose parents were members in the template. So I removed those sections. --
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Also, I do not understand what you meant, when you said "there has not been much input from editors not directly associated with the article or the movement".
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I'm not sure what point
Sfacets is trying to make about the participation of editors who are associated with the subject. Is it a bad thing or a good thing?
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article. That not only does not make any sense it almost betrays an agenda. The original links should remain. We can discuss each link individually
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and practiced solely by COG members. Removing an article on a topic that is solely associated with the COG, how does this improve the template?
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the names until such time as this is corrected (and sources to back it up provided)? If I don't see a response soon, I'll go ahead.
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I removed several POV and barely connected links from the template. Please discuss here the relevance of such links
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You're right. Per WP:BLP#CAT, we shouldn't include anyone who's notability isn't linked to their membership.
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disagree with what you did there. I believe that what you are doing here similarly goes against consensus.
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Not really, but I did take a look at the category for some relevant articles for the template.
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I'd go a step further to suggest that ordinary members should not be listed
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Please justify your opinion that these links are "POV and barely connected"
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were members of COG/TFI, but little else. Thank you, --
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