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753:@RP: No, you misunderstood. What I mean is that the seperatist movement is inherently notable to have a template of its own. Stuff like articles on Kashmiri activists/nationalist organisations/seperatist activities is exactly suited for this template, not the Kashmir conflict template which should only have very general and non-specific articles.
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1643:. I am not an expert on Kashmir -- but I think I know that it is a militant group that focusses on Kashmir. I request those who think there is disputed content that shouldn't be included here, without a discussion to resolve whether it belongs, list those articles names, followed by their explanation as to why it doesn't belong.
1663:
I don't understand why
Lashkar-e-Taiba is still mentioned in the discussions. It is no longer in the template and I checked the history, it has been removed for many days now. Any issue with the neutrality of the template is addressed by increasing the scope to Azad Kashmir and removing articles like
1345:(1998) p.132, Wirsing defines the Kashmiri separatist movement in two dimensions: one which is pro-Pakistan and the other which favours independence from both countries. In both cases, a defined agenda of the movement is separation from India. From this criteria, observers have divided
860:
Please prove how those groups are not relevant to the template. These groups are engaged in a conflict against the central government and aspire to see
Kashmir seperated. SMS has already explained this point to you in more than one occasion but you seem to be insistent in
1630:“Unfortunately, the creators of the template are not working to neutralize it but instead try to reintroduce already rejected and disputed content such as the inclusion of the Al-Qeada ally and terrorist organization Lashkar-e-Taiba which committed the Mumbai attacks.”
1281:(out)Both fail verification. Neither of those articles say that rape is a part of the separatist movement. Nor does it say that separatists were demanding independence due to acts of rape. It says separatists demanded a one day strike for allegations of rape.
1361:
whereas the pro-accession
Kashmiri organisations include Hizbul Mujahideen, Al Jehad, Al Barq, Ikhwan ul-Musalmeen etc. Both factions have certain ideological differences but nevertheless constitute the separatist movement, according to this academic source.
889:
Read burden again, the onus is on those adding content to prove it belongs. So prove these terrorist groups set up by
Pakistan to fight a proxy war are seperatist when the goal is to see all if Kashmir annexed by Pakistan.
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1696:
In the TfD there seems to be a consensus that all issues should be first discussed on the talk page. Although I still think that the purpose of this template is to push POV, I am suggesting some changes:
1008:. How long will you continue to do this? I have already made the case clear (and so have others) that human rights abuses and media are entirely relevant to the Kashmiri separatist cause. You follow the
1428:
Actually no it does not. You are asking me to prove a negative. Prove the terrorists are separatists and not in fact paid thugs for
Pakistan's proxy war. I have the sources for that, were are yours?
699:
In that case, I agree that this is a pov template. Separating out the separatist movement or nationalism from the conflict is definitely non-neutral. I'll add a comment at the deletion discussion. --
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I think the new title is still not neutral. My suggestion is that it be renamed "Kashmir conflict", which is neutral and in line with our current main article on the situation in that region. --
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Obviously you do not get it. Which of those sources supports Rape in Jammu and
Kashmir being in this template, which of those sources says rape has anything to do with the separatist movement.
679:, but this one is mainly focused on the Kashmiri nationalist/separatist movement of Jammu and Kashmir. Most of the articles here do not fall under the scope of the Kashmir conflict template.
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Editors might object if you remove material without giving them time to provide references. It has always been good practice to try to find and cite supporting sources yourself..
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It mentions that separatists called for a day of strikes due to allegations of rape. It does not say that separatists want to be separate because of it. You are engaging in
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Which is pointless as we already have one called
Kashmiri nationalism which Mar4d pointed out at the deletion discussion, this template is naught but a political pov push.
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Your comment says it all, I do not need to prove anything. As you said, those groups do not want to see
Kashmir in India. They are separatist in their nature and ideology.
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I think this template is going to stay now. Mar4d, please proceed with adding it to the articles you were going through before. Esp, on the ones listed on the template. --
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293:, individual terrorists, incidents and related subjects on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the
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3. The
Kashmiri nationalist movement (both secular and religious, the "emergence of ethnic subnationalism in Kashmir and its challenge to the Indian state")
1494:. As the conflict enters its fourth year, Indian security forces have increasingly targeted civilians in an effort to crush support for the guerilla forces.
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They do not want
Kashmir in India, they want it in Pakistan. That is not separatism. Prove they are fighting for an Independent state and they can go back.
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Since 1990, the north Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir has been the site of a vicious conflict between Indian security forces and Muslim insurgents
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The template will have to be reverted soon to its previous form where pro-accession parties were included. Those objecting need to bear
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Patricia Gossman, Vincent Iacopino (1993), The Crackdown in Kashmir: Torture of Detainees and Assaults on the Medical Community, pp. 1
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of course these need to be included as the rationale given during the deletion discussions was this POV template could be balanced --
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Last time on here also, the burden is on you, prove with sources that these links have a connection to the separatist movement.
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I have now had to remove links from this template which have no place here, again. For those restoring the links please meet
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Seriously, read burden again and again and again, it will never say what you want it to say. THE BURDEN IS ON YOU.
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This article is not currently associated with a task force. To tag it for one or more task forces, please
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cover that. It obviously is a point of conflict so better off without the link. Your views are welcome.
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4. Increase in political mobilization of Kashmiris against a background of institutional decay in India.
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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It is mentioned in both these press sources that separatists have protested against rape atrocities.
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Mar4d, please prove the terrorist groups you keep adding to this template are in fact seperatists.
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So is nobody going to prove which articles ought be in this pov template? As most will have to go.
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I have removed the link to the article for now, there should be discussions first here. I believe
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Don't think so... all nationalist movements that are notable have templates for navigation. See
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it is for those adding them to prove their contention that these terrorists are seperatists.
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The groups I have removed are not separatist groups by any stretch of the imagination, per
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is on you; if you do not present any valid rationale/objections, this should be restored.
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I guess this conversation just got moved to the TFD vide RP's comment there. --
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Kashmir protesters are using social media to disseminate news and views...
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Remove the footnote as thee would be not need after increasing the scope
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and explain how these links deal with the Kashmir separatist groups.
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I hope that all these suggestion will be taken into consideration.
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Kashmir in the Shadow of War: Regional Rivalries in a Nuclear Age
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now to substantiate why the links have no place. Thanks,
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I don't see any explanation here on the talk page that
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Human rights abuse as well as media, which you removed.
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Please indicate which source is to support which link.
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The source clearly says that Pro-Pakistan groups are
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1408:Anyway, I think that makes my point clear.
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1679:Contributions
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1485:Another one:
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1118:The Guardian
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977:Removed, why
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734:
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629:keep for now
628:
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619:26 June 2012
591:no consensus
590:
584:
553:no consensus
552:
546:
480:
420:
386:project page
384:
374:
368:India portal
284:
168:
93:
40:WikiProjects
29:
1129:Global Post
863:not hearing
701:regentspark
675:There is a
644:regentspark
581:6 June 2012
543:29 May 2012
1781:Categories
1450:separatist
1446:separatist
624:discussion
586:discussion
548:discussion
295:discussion
1646:Thanks!
1367:WP:BURDEN
1110:The Hindu
1010:WP:BURDEN
983:WP:BURDEN
811:wp:burden
300:Terrorism
291:terrorism
266:Terrorism
1648:Geo Swan
1099:(India)
960:lTopGunl
777:lTopGunl
735:lTopGunl
615:deletion
577:deletion
539:deletion
496:Pakistan
487:Pakistan
446:Pakistan
109:Politics
100:politics
59:Politics
30:template
1610:In the
1046:There.
706:comment
649:comment
1524:Also;
1002:WP:BRD
867:burden
865:. The
36:scale.
1667:Samar
1613:third
1584:Samar
1556:Mar4d
1507:Mar4d
1459:Mar4d
1412:Mar4d
1373:Mar4d
1318:WP:OR
1300:Mar4d
1250:Mar4d
1199:Mar4d
1158:Mar4d
1072:Media
1050:Mar4d
1016:Mar4d
1006:WP:DR
910:Mar4d
873:Mar4d
757:Mar4d
683:Mar4d
638:Title
627:was "
589:was "
551:was "
392:India
381:India
334:India
28:This
1722:Add
1673:Talk
1652:talk
1590:Talk
1563:talk
1514:talk
1466:talk
1434:talk
1419:talk
1396:talk
1380:talk
1351:and
1325:talk
1307:talk
1287:talk
1257:talk
1221:talk
1206:talk
1187:talk
1165:talk
1097:NDTV
1057:talk
1038:talk
1023:talk
1004:and
991:talk
966:talk
932:talk
917:talk
896:talk
880:talk
848:talk
834:talk
819:talk
783:talk
764:talk
741:talk
731:. --
690:talk
665:talk
1764:ray
1758:Big
1639:is
1620:tfd
1537:1.
1341:On
617:on
579:on
541:on
234:add
1783::
1711:,
1682:)
1676:.
1654:)
1623:}}
1617:{{
1599:)
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1566:)
1528:,
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1497:—
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631:".
593:".
555:".
337::
212:/
1762:X
1756:D
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647:(
425:.
389:.
181:.
42::
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