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581:). The HRE template is fine, but I believe that the German monarchs template is the one that should be deleted since it lists only the Holy Roman Emperors and the 3 Hohenzollern emperors. These are not the only German monarchs (there's also Kings of Bavaria, Saxony, etc. etc.). Also, listing all HR Emperors as "German" is IMO a little problematic. Therefore I think it is better to drop this template in favour of the other two. While the German monarchs template is not bad
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The state doesn't matter. The dignity held by Otto I was not thought to be different in kind from that possessed by
Charlemagne. The imperial dignity something distinct from the mere rule of a state; it was usually (from 961 on) conferred upon a King of Germany, but that was not in principle a
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on the point of deleting the above template. Please only vote once and every new vote should be placed at bottom of list. (If you change your minf about whether to agree or oppose please remove your agree or oppose sign however keep your point on the page to help make the debate make sense)
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requirement, and it had been held by mere
Italian princes. Throughout the period 800-1493, it was an honor conferred by the Pope (or a substitute for him), that carried the highest prestige, but had no intrinsic political power depending on it.
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From 1508-1806, however, it was merely an adjunct of the German kingship (and the idea of the latter came to be subsumed under the notion of Empire). Hence a good deal of confusion. Hence also my effort to distinguish, in the template, the
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I have to say I'm unhappy covering both the Holy Roman
Emperors and the Carolingian and Italian emperors in a template named "Holy Roman Emperors". Now I understand they used similar/same titles in the period closest to each other, but the
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If the German monarch template can be redone to present its information in a clear way (at the moment it is too cluttered) and properly demonstrate that it is significantly different from already-existing templates, then it would be worth
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Exactly. And so far, the German
Monarchs template fails to make that distinction. Instead, it suggests to the uninformed reader that there was an uninterrupted line of succession from Louis II to William II, which is completely false.
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imperial dignity from the dignity conferred by the Pope. Note that
Charles V appears in both lists. This is not an error. He was "elected Emperor" from 1519 to 1530, and crowned Emperor 1530-1558.
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But then you still need to make very clear that the old German
Kingdom is not the same as the Hohenzollern-ruled German Empire if the Hohenzollern rulers are to be included.
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I believe that the 1871-1918 template should be changed to one that lists the
Hohenzollern rulers of Prussia, which of course includes the 3 Emperors (eg.
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given the Holy Roman
Emperor was seen as the ruler of the Germans and the Empire included much of what would become Germany?
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Actually the names for the German
Monarchs and Holy Roman Emperors are in may cases different so those comments are false.
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should both be kept because while they are similar they have technicalities which make them different. However
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on
Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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The Hohenzollern rulers are different frm the Monarchs of the Kingdom of Germany.
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How about we rename the German Monarchs Template, Monarchs of the German Kingdom?
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I would propose to change the name of the template to "Emperors of the West".--
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refers to a particular state which was not the state the latter ruled.
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There are currently 3 different templates that overlap one another:
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This should be corrected and the redundant template(s) deleted. -
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Add to Category:Germany royalty and nobility navigational boxes?
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be cleaned up for it to be readable enough to worth keeping -
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Yes, that is another problem. Maybe we need to start afresh.
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as recommended above. So now I would support the deletion of
633:(forgot to sign before, but continuing) I see you've created
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please
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I see that this has now been done and think it makes sense.
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Category:Germany royalty and nobility navigational boxes
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I propose a vote on whether or not to delete template
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